Database Develop

Improve Camera Quality in Automode?

Hello,
i just got my hands on the Z3 Compact and took it out to test it on a sunny day.
Back home i noticed that the picture quality is really bad in auto mode!
I made a quick comparison picture to my old phone: a Xiaomi Mi2 (not the S Model) with 8m Camera.
The picture shows the text quality of the Xperia Z Ultra Power Pack which is the best example i can do now.
The automode settings are: ISO-800, F/2, 1/50 Sec, no flash
The Mi2 automode settings are: ISO-488, 1/16 Sec (no data on the F), no flash
Directlink:
http://abload.de/img/neuebitmapoksb8.png
And here the same with manual mode and a lower ISO (100 instead of 800 that was used in auto mode):
The complete settings were: ISO-100, F/2, 1/8 Sec, no flash
Directlink:
http://abload.de/img/dsc_0099emqqy.jpg
Heres another example of a picture i took when i was outside (without zoom, i just cut away some parts to make it smaller):
The automode settings here: ISO-50, F/2, 1/320sec, no flash
Directlink:
http://abload.de/img/dsc_0036lujf6.jpg
Any idea why automode causes such very bad picture quality? Any ideas on how to improve it?
Thank you for help!

Why bother so much about the auto mode? You can take such great pictures in manual mode when you play with the settings. In the end auto mode will never be great, because it does what it says: auto mode, it adjusts the settings to what it thinks is best in each situation.
Playing with the manual mode will also give you more knowledge of basic photography.
Sent from my D5803

Auto mode became better over time on the Z1C, I guess they'll keep improving it. Dunno if they made a step back here.

Dsteppa said:
Why bother so much about the auto mode? You can take such great pictures in manual mode when you play with the settings. In the end auto mode will never be great, because it does what it says: auto mode, it adjusts the settings to what it thinks is best in each situation.
Playing with the manual mode will also give you more knowledge of basic photography.
Sent from my D5803
Click to expand...
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Auto mode will always be handy.. no one wants to mess with settings most of the times.. its a phone camera and if i want manual controls i would pick a dslr. Thats why iphone wins in camera department. Take it out and snap a pic instantly with great output. Even on my galaxy s5 i take pictures on auto and i havent seen anyone setting things up manually each and every time to take a damn photo

Auto mode uses a technique called oversampling to gather information with the 20MP sensor, then heavily processes the photo to whatever the software (Sony) decided was best (post-processing). The idea is you get the detail of a 20MP sensor, in a auto-corrected and down-sized 8MP resolution photo. Oversampling is also why the Z3 has a small amount of "lossless" zoom. (ever tried "zooming" with other phone cameras? It usually leaves you with a terrible blob of digital noise)
As with any automatic post-processing, there are pros and cons. The truth is, the software doesn't really know what you're taking a picture of, so it tries to give it's best guess on correcting exposure, colour, noise, etc. The result you're seeing in the auto-mode photo is a result of heavy post-processing (Noise Reduction), bad focus, and camera shake.
The reason your "manual" photo is better is because manual mode drops the post-processing. It also looks like you were able to hold the camera steadier for the manual shot.
"Auto" mode is far from perfect, but it will often save you more times than you know. Over time, you'll learn the strengths and weaknesses of "auto mode", and you'll know when you need to switch to Manual for the better shot. Auto mode can also be easily improved upon via software updates.
PS: A little trick I use to minimize camera shake while taking a photo is to set a quick 2 second self timer. This will allow you time to press the shutter button and then stabilize the phone for minimal "camera shake"

I have read the z3 Compact camera is great, great, great...but yeah I have been grossly underwhelmed by the auto mode. The auto mode is THE mode...sure have a manual mode if you want...if you have time. But I use my phone for quick snaps...QUICK being the operative word. I want to pull it out aim and shoot. My iphone5 took very acceptable pictures. The z3 compact has shown me grainy, bland looking shots in auto.
I don't get why auto mode isn't the most important mode for designers. It's a phone...not a camera...so make the auto mode work

Yeah, camera is definitely underwhelming. That being said though, it's better than most. My Moto X took absolutely horrid shots for the most part.

Crewville96 said:
Yeah, camera is definitely underwhelming. That being said though, it's better than most. My Moto X took absolutely horrid shots for the most part.
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Coming from 2 years on the iphone5...I was under the impression that camera technology was pretty well mastered across the board. iphone makes it look easy. There's even an annoying lag between pressing the button and the shot being taken on the Z3...what the hell is up with that?

Eclypz said:
Auto mode uses a technique called oversampling to gather information with the 20MP sensor, then heavily processes the photo to whatever the software (Sony) decided was best (post-processing). The idea is you get the detail of a 20MP sensor, in a auto-corrected and down-sized 8MP resolution photo.
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Click to collapse
Well, my z3c is still on the way. I have a question. Will the 8MP pictures I take in Manual mode be oversampled as well?
Because the sensor is still 20MP and if I manually adjust it to take only 8MP pictures what advantage do I have in having a sensor that is 20MP? I never print photos. Only watch it on my phone, laptop or my LED tv which is 1080p and 50" screen. I don't want photos that are too big in file size unless it is benefiting me in some sense other than for the purpose of printing and viewing in very large resolutions. I see that oversampling in auto mode is benefiting from a 20MP sensor but is that the case if I take 8MP pics in manual mode?

coolmalayalee said:
Well, my z3c is still on the way. I have a question. Will the 8MP pictures I take in Manual mode be oversampled as well?
Because the sensor is still 20MP and if I manually adjust it to take only 8MP pictures what advantage do I have in having a sensor that is 20MP? I never print photos. Only watch it on my phone, laptop or my LED tv which is 1080p and 50" screen. I don't want photos that are too big in file size unless it is benefiting me in some sense other than for the purpose of printing and viewing in very large resolutions. I see that oversampling in auto mode is benefiting from a 20MP sensor but is that the case if I take 8MP pics in manual mode?
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By selecting 8MP in manual mode, all you're doing is resizing the photo from 20MP (post processing). The sensor will always capture at its full resolution.
If you know you only want a 8MP photo, there is a small benefit in resizing the photo at the phone:
The first benefit is obviously file size, but before I get into the second reason, I need to explain something first: A picture that has been converted to JPG is considered to be post processed. The compression that the JPG engine performs means your image loses details and thus has been altered. I know I said above that Manual mode means the image isn't processed, but I really only said that for the sake of explaining things easier. The average user does not consider JPG compression as post processing and they probably don't care to know. The truth is, unless Sony allows us to capture images in RAW format, the act of converting all our images to JPG means our images are all being post processed whether we like it or not. The difference between manual and auto mode is really about "how much" post processing occurs. In manual, Sony is most likely just compressing to JPG (and probably lens distortion correction but I won't get into that now) , and not applying corrections like noise reduction.
As for how it may be beneficial to resize at the phone; JPG compression is usually the final step in post processing. So by resizing at the phone, the theory is the image is captured in [email protected] > resized to 8MP while still in RAW format > compressed to JPG.
This means you benefit from the photo being resized before it is "post processed". In theory, this method should leave you with a higher quality 8MP photo versus resizing from a computer. Resizing from a computer means you're applying post processing to an already "post processed" photo.
For the average user, 8MP is more than enough, however, this is not to say all phone cameras should come in 8MP. Keep in mind that there is a big difference between an image captured by a 8MP sensor vs being captured by a 20MP sensor and then resized to 8MP. The 20MP sensor can capture much more detail with proper/sufficient lighting.

@wooki (OP):
Especially the first comparison "Xperia Z Ultra Power Pack", the one you made with the Z3C is nothing but blurred. So what is it you're trying to show/compare? I mean, yes, may the Z3C doesn't come with the best camera on the market, and yes, the "Auto mode" does not always provide the best results. Not really sure you're into photography or not, but what can be expected from a lens not even half the size of a fingernail? Not too much, right?! Get an SLR with decent lenses and a full frame sensor if you need more/better.
However, the attached fotos were one of the first ones I made with the Z3C (in Auto Mode) and think it's quite ok. No processing, just resized them.

@sxtester
I was comparing my Z3C with my old phone (a 2 year old Xiaomi Mi2) which seems to have a very good auto mode. Was just asking if i was the only one who has had a bad automode experience and if someone knows how to improve it.
How do your pictures look like without resizing?
As i'm owning a WQHD Screen all my automode pictures look very bad!
I don't want to set up the manual mode every time i want to take a picture, this phone has a shutter button to make fast pictures and with the setup phase i lose time even if manual mode gives me excellent pictures.

Eclypz said:
Auto mode uses a technique called oversampling to gather information with the 20MP sensor, then heavily processes the photo to whatever the software (Sony) decided was best (post-processing). The idea is you get the detail of a 20MP sensor, in a auto-corrected and down-sized 8MP resolution photo. Oversampling is also why the Z3 has a small amount of "lossless" zoom. (ever tried "zooming" with other phone cameras? It usually leaves you with a terrible blob of digital noise)
Click to expand...
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The manual mode uses oversampling as well, if you select a lower resolution. I've compared an auto mode shot with a manual mode shot of the same scene, and both were equal in terms of details and noise. The main difference was that the auto mode shot looks far worse because it tends to use that horrible HDR which just washes out the photo and ruins the contrast to near non-existence. I find that "multi" light metering mode, selectable in manual mode, gives far better results than HDR on this phone.
---------- Post added at 07:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------
Auto:
http://i.imgur.com/er38iZn.jpg
Manual:
http://i.imgur.com/Oqwl3KE.jpg
---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:32 PM ----------
Furthermore, the pictures from this phone's camera would look a lot better if Sony used a better algorithm for their oversampling.
Here is a comparison between a 100% crop of an image taken using Sony's oversampling (8mp) (former attachment) and a 100% crop of a photo taken at 20mp, and then downsampled to the 8mp dimensions using Irfanview (latter attachment):

I agree....Sony's software is lacking compared to everybody else. Auto mode seems kind of hit or miss. Their camera sensors are excellent, as I believe the iPhone uses a Sony sensor, but the difference being Apple is able to process better looking images with their software. I also have a iPhone 5s, and I must agree that 7/10 times, I'll get a better looking image from the iPhone. In terms of capturing details, i think Z3C is better (as expected), but all my images from the Z3C are on the "red" side when shooting in auto-mode. In the end, the iPhone comes out with the better looking photo because I'd much rather have better colour re-production over slightly more detail that you wouldn't even notice unless you had a photo to compare against.
I still think the Z3C's camera is on par with the best from Samsung's Galaxy S5 and LG's G3 (Sony sensor). It's way better than my old HTC One M8's "ultrapixel".
On the Android side of things, I think Z3C is still top 3, and Top 5 in the Smartphone world (iPhone and Lumia above it).

wooki said:
@sxtester
How do your pictures look like without resizing?
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@wooki:
Here you go, all unedited made in Auto Mode:
http://imgur.com/uMiM0Sh
http://imgur.com/0mYsf5U
http://imgur.com/vJ32fjT
http://imgur.com/8g7oJD7

degraaff said:
Here is a comparison between a 100% crop of an image taken using Sony's oversampling (8mp) (former attachment) and a 100% crop of a photo taken at 20mp, and then downsampled to the 8mp dimensions using Irfanview (latter attachment):
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony's approach looks way better because it doesn't blur that heavily. If I want to blur away all the details, I can still do that myself.

This is a bit off-topic, but I don't really want to start a new thread just to ask such a silly question.
I've been playing with the camera app some more and is there seriously no "rule of thirds grid" in Sony's Camera app? I often like to use the grids to assist in making sure my shot is straight.

Iruwen said:
Sony's approach looks way better because it doesn't blur that heavily. If I want to blur away all the details, I can still do that myself.
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Really? Sony's approach is full of over sharpening artifacts and -auras, doesn't look better at all IMO.

One dumb quetion.
If i use another camera APP, it will improve the photo quality?

point_pt said:
One dumb quetion.
If i use another camera APP, it will improve the photo quality?
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It depends. I choose CFV-5 and PNG image saving (rrather than JPG) and it looks much better then Superior auto, and sometimes better than Sony's Manual mode.

How to make the best photos ?

Hello from France
I would like to know how to make the best photos?
I'm not a professionnal. I would like to be sure to have the best photos when i press the button without changing anything
For the moment i have choose 10mx pixels and disable IA, only that
I'm a little suprise about the size of photos. Beetween 2Mo-3Mo so half less than my Samsung S7
3648*2736 P20 Pro - > 4032*3024 Samsung S7 (12Mo pixels)
A better compression ?
Really thanks
I have called Huawei and a technician told me to choose 40mpixels! I maybe it was an Samsung spy !!!!!:laugh:

for me, i just switch it to auto and on the AI, seems to be doing it's job correctly so far, and if the AI detects wrongly, i'll just dismiss the scene by clicking on the "x" beside the scene name

I also suggest leaving AI on, it does a fantastic job in many scenarios, producing quality pics you just wouldn't capture without. It also reduces hand shake to get sharper photos. Just dismiss it when the shot you want to capture doesn't look right rather than disable it completely.

I think it depends on your taste. The AI is boosting colours quite a bit ( which I really like), for some this might be too much. In 10 mp mode there is also a lot of sharpening going on, just take a 10mp picture of some clouds. They are so cleary structured, I love it. But again some say its to much. 40 mp will give you the picture more straigt from the sensor(which is a good sensor) which some people prefer. For me its 10mp but i will occasionally switch to 40mp just to compare. Also try the Night Mode in various situations(even some where it is not too dark) it is amazing.

bad (weird) photo quality on p20 pro

Hello
2 days ago i bought p20 pro due to good reviews but i saw some big problem check this photo https://www7.zippyshare.com/v/OTAuxlO3/file.html
i this normal ? i mean photo is too "soft" and details suck . this is auto mode with AI off 40 mpx. is there anyway to fix this ? some other camera app ? i cant belive that camera of that "level" could be that bad maybe its just software suck ?
sometimes i fell that my old zenfone 2 took better photos much "sharper" / detailed (i dont know how to name it) , i got android 9 but im not sure on 8 there was difference

bassfreak93 said:
Hello
2 days ago i bought p20 pro due to good reviews but i saw some big problem check this photo https://www7.zippyshare.com/v/OTAuxlO3/file.html
i this normal ? i mean photo is too "soft" and details suck . this is auto mode with AI off 40 mpx. is there anyway to fix this ? some other camera app ? i cant belive that camera of that "level" could be that bad maybe its just software suck ?
sometimes i fell that my old zenfone 2 took better photos much "sharper" / detailed (i dont know how to name it) , i got android 9 but im not sure on 8 there was difference
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Click to collapse
I never saw such a bad quality on P20 Pro. If you really want to take 40mpx photos,you should use Pro mode anyway,and change the focus area to wide to capture a detailed photo,otherwise by default(in any mode) the focus point is in the center,looking for a person/object. But even with default it should be a lot more clear. Be sure to update your phone using HiSuite for PC and reset the camera app. Best pictures are at 10mpx because it captures more light and they are downsampled from 40mpx. Also,at 40mpx it only uses the 40mpx RGB camera. Use photo mode for normal pictures,night mode for low light if you don't enable master AI,and Pro mode for more control. Be sure to understand all the settings,especially focus modes. Your picture was in a low light environment,you should have sticked to 10mpx,or Pro mode(but at 40mpx some settings are not there because like I said,it does not use all the cameras)

exodus394 said:
I never saw such a bad quality on P20 Pro. If you really want to take 40mpx photos,you should use Pro mode anyway,and change the focus area to wide to capture a detailed photo,otherwise by default(in any mode) the focus point is in the center,looking for a person/object. But even with default it should be a lot more clear. Be sure to update your phone using HiSuite for PC and reset the camera app. Best pictures are at 10mpx because it captures more light and they are downsampled from 40mpx. Also,at 40mpx it only uses the 40mpx RGB camera. Use photo mode for normal pictures,night mode for low light if you don't enable master AI,and Pro mode for more control. Be sure to understand all the settings,especially focus modes. Your picture was in a low light environment,you should have sticked to 10mpx,or Pro mode(but at 40mpx some settings are not there because like I said,it does not use all the cameras)
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HiSuite say im using newest official update clt-l29 9.0.0236 (C432E5R1P9)(official version)

i made hard reset and roll back to 8.0 and didint help , also cleared cache/app date
can someone put photo from p20 pro in similar conditions ?

The 40MPix mode is amazing if you want to a) capture most of details and b) if you want to play with photo in Snapseed or PSe for example. I use is because it doesn't do HDR, that CAN be too aggressive when 10mpix is enabled. Can you share this photo somewhere else, because zippy share is overflow with advertisment.

Jpeg from raw
For example - jpeg made from raw in pro mode, edited in lightroom mobile.
EDIT: ooops, xda scrambled quality...

Btw I do not see a problem in your photo. If you zoom 100% of course, the photo will not be sharp nor pleasant to see, but 40MPixs can surely be printed for example on A2 and look gorgeous (in fact, everything >12MPix will). The point is, you took picture against the sun, that means it had to deal with huge amount of direct sunlight, that's probably the reason the grass and mud is so... well... not sharp. It's partly simple optics and party too agressive postprocessing.

No burst and time-lapse photo mode?

Why is there no burst or time-lapse photo mode?
Time-lapse workaround: The app Intervalometer hijacks the stock camera app and simulates touching the shutter buttons, so you get a programmable time-lapse in all modes, Raw, Night-mode, all the 3 cameras. Probably better than Huawei could ever make it.
As for burst mode: its there if you set the resolution to 10MP or lower, no burst mode for 40MP or with raw files.

Time lapse mode can be found on the last page of the camera options where slow motion , monochrome , moving picture is. To take pictures in burst mode you just press the camera button and it will take pictures in burst mode untill you release it.

giwta said:
Time lapse mode can be found on the last page of the camera options where.
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No that's a crappy low-res time-lapse video, I'm talking about photos.
Found the burst mode though it has its limitations, that aren't mentioned (how should the user know). They only work in Photo Mode and only if you set the resolution to 10MP or less.

nurps said:
No that's a crappy low-res time-lapse video, I'm talking about photos.
Found the burst mode though it has its limitations, that aren't mentioned (how should the user know). They only work in Photo Mode and only if you set the resolution to 10MP or less.
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Go in play store, ans download Framelaps application. It is very good. You have so much options. It is taking photos and you can make 4K video, not 720p like in original camera application. Too bad for Huawei that's is not so hard to do.
Only bad thing with Framelaps you cant you Suoer Wide Angle.

Probably can't do a lot of things, like the correct colors for the new sensor. And yes, kind of want that for the ultra wide.

nurps said:
Probably can't do a lot of things, like the correct colors for the new sensor. And yes, kind of want that for the ultra wide.
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Yes I know but it helps more the p30 pro software camera (stupid 720p).
If you have DJI Osmo 2 you have good application for timelaps. But still no super wide-angle

Timelapse with the original camera app in high quality
Framelapse is not bad, but as mentioned, you can't use wide angle lens nor the quality of the original app. Solution:
Use "intervalometer"! This app is working together with any other camera app. It works as an overlay, means, it's running background and given impulse to the camera button with any desired interval while using the camera settings in the original camera app. You can not only use any interval with any resolution (40mp too) but choose a delay when shooting from day to night. The app costs here in Germany 1,89 €.

Grab a copy of Intervalometer from the Google Play store, then you can shoot your own timelapses with whatever camera application you want. That's what i do and it works great!
/ Magnus

With just one camera and no chance to select the other two, probably wrong colors and no raw files support, useless.
EDIT: Oh wait, this thing is actually useful, its no camera app instead it hijacks what ever is on the screen and simulates a touch in the timed intervall.
So it remote controls the manufactures app with whatever is set there.
Nice. Sorry I dismissed it so fast, I was just expecting another dumb comment but this is really useful.

Exactly, it is one of the best applications i have found on the Google Play store and for this purpose it's fantastic! you can shoot RAW timelapse sequences if you want to, the possibilities are infinite since it's not relying on it's own camera but let's you use any camera application you want. It's worth paying for it since it does such a great job with timelapse photography.
/ Magnus

Ok, the best timelaps is INTERVALOMETAR.
You can use every mode, normal, super wide angle, HDR, Night mode, zoom and etc...

Question Camera motion blur

Has anyone found a solution for the lag/motion blur when taking photos? Stationary shots are fine, but any movement of the subject and it's likely to blur, even in reasonable light. On top of this is the clear delay between pressing the button and the photo taking (motion picture does help with this slightly but still not ideal).
GCAM appears to be able to take quick shots with less blur, so I feel like it's not a hardware limitation? I would stick with gcam but obviously lacks the depth of shooting options of the stock camera
Aware pro mode could be used but I feel like auto should do the job well enough

mtm1401 said:
Has anyone found a solution for the lag/motion blur when taking photos? Stationary shots are fine, but any movement of the subject and it's likely to blur, even in reasonable light. On top of this is the clear delay between pressing the button and the photo taking (motion picture does help with this slightly but still not ideal).
GCAM appears to be able to take quick shots with less blur, so I feel like it's not a hardware limitation? I would stick with gcam but obviously lacks the depth of shooting options of the stock camera
Aware pro mode could be used but I feel like auto should do the job well enough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyone?

it's a samsung thing. i have never had a samsung that did not do this. GCAM is a decent work around though. some people try the live picture setting, others try taking video and screenshotting the frame they want, there is a noticeable loss in quality doing that though.