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the truth of 960 fps slow mo

So huawei stills refusing to tell us the truth of 960 fps.
Adobe after effect (twixtor) users will now what i am talking about.
The p20 pro is incapable of 960 fps video recording. It is just an frame interpolation technique. It may be recording only in 240 fps or 480 fps. Nevertheless, Software interpolation should be improved.
Those two videos show clearly the case
What do you think guys ?
Huawei should work more on that soft interpolation slow mo thing

you need to practice a little to get good results - https://photos.app.goo.gl/QnvGmwrUL5LmmAZe2

starbase64 said:
you need to practice a little to get good results - https://photos.app.goo.gl/QnvGmwrUL5LmmAZe2
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Practise what, im showcasing some examples from youtube to compare p20 pro and slow mo interpolation outputs.
Frame rate interpolation is what meant by camera powered by AI, i think

Great findings, the question is is this a bug, SW limitation or hw limitation. The drone part of the video definitely show that there is something weird going on. It would be great to have the same tests with 240fps to see if the result is as sharp as it should be...
Also it might depend of firmware version, it seems they made quite a lot of changes in a short time.

Huawei lie to us....

jbfuzier said:
Great findings, the question is is this a bug, SW limitation or hw limitation. The drone part of the video definitely show that there is something weird going on. It would be great to have the same tests with 240fps to see if the result is as sharp as it should be...
Also it might depend of firmware version, it seems they made quite a lot of changes in a short time.
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I have recorded some videos of muzzle blasts from ww2 era rifles,(yes there is a 6 foot flame out the barrel? not much fun on the shoulder though) in 960fps, it looks just like the you tube video, the 240fps looked alot better, I slowed them down as much as I could on the computer, the 960fps was no better than the 60 FPS, in fact I think the 60 FPS on my old windows 950 was better, with the p20 pro the 960 FPS vid played frame by frame was only 30 frames.
Trying to explain that the FPS is not right to so-called experts is a nightmare! I have explained it like this to a few at Huawei and EE, If you have a camera that shoots 900 FPS and you take a 1 second vid then when you play it back you should have 900 'photos' not 30, they still think it's recorded right as as it's slowed down, they cannot see the distortion or the lack of frames, or they choose to ignore you as they have been 'trained' on this phone.
According to meta data the 960 FPS bids are recorded at 30fps, if I connect the phone to the computer, go into the phones video file and right click on a vid for the properties, it says 30gps for the 960, the 250fps is recorded around the 240 mark (the speed is variable)

It is most likely a hardware limitation Huawei worked around with software trickery to get a similar effect. My guess is that Huawei's sensor lacks the on-sensor memory cache which is required for the sensor to be able to record high frame rate video without any of the normal limitations.
/ Magnus

Magnus3D said:
It is most likely a hardware limitation Huawei worked around with software trickery to get a similar effect. My guess is that Huawei's sensor lacks the on-sensor memory cache which is required for the sensor to be able to record high frame rate video without any of the normal limitations.
/ Magnus
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That's true

The 960 fps vídeos really look like twixtor vídeos.
But one thing do not make sense.
If it is a 60fps with some sw gimmick to make a 960fps why there is a recording time limit?
Enviado de meu CLT-L29 usando o Tapatalk

Stupid from huawei

They put the same options as of the galaxy s9 to make you believe that it is real 960 fps

I still believe in some hw limitation as a rolling shutter insted of a global shutter that creates this effect similar to twixtor.
If it is only sw it would make more sense to record at 240fps without time cap and afterwards during editing let the user select the time frame to create the super slowmo.
Enviado de meu CLT-L29 usando o Tapatalk

Can anyone clarify that they get these anomalies and if so what fw are you on?
I'm assuming that some of this is software based so it's possible if that's the case that it can be improved.
Really really horrible to see this though, I did a video of some rain whilst on 110 and it was crap.
Small fast moving objects just come out wrong. Solid normal moving objects seem to be perfect.
EG: the wings on a bee from one of the first posts, you can see the blur effect

i also think it's some kind of rolling shutter issue maybe combined with a real 480fps... limiting the record time would otherwise make no sense st all...
i've made a video where it's provoked by a flickering led-illumination. If the illumination is bright it seems to get better.... cannot post the link, as i'm a newbie - some assembly needed by removing two spaces: https: //youtu .be/4bxmu6nhyho

short update on my comment: did some tests with bad/good illumination and now im pretty sure it's a rolling shutter issue (which isn't a surprise, that you need a lot of light for 960fps) videos wil follow soon...

960fps is fake (at least on the p20)
so i analyzed the video files i made with bad illumination and some movies with good illumination frame by frame and the answer is very simple: 960fps is completely fake. it's recorded at 240fps and then interpolated to 960 fps.
If the illumination is bad, it will just copy 4 times the same image which avoids the ugly artifacts. If the illumination is good it interpolates the frames in-between. it sometimes does a great job, sometimes a really bad one...
in the video here you can see the effect of the interpolation working/not working with the small droplet which stays in place for 4 consecutive frames:
https ://youtu. be/DK-A3j-mino
(again assembly required, sorry... remove the space after the "https" and before the "be")

flowgeek said:
so i analyzed the video files i made with bad illumination and some movies with good illumination frame by frame and the answer is very simple: 960fps is completely fake. it's recorded at 240fps and then interpolated to 960 fps.
If the illumination is bad, it will just copy 4 times the same image which avoids the ugly artifacts. If the illumination is good it interpolates the frames in-between. it sometimes does a great job, sometimes a really bad one...
in the video here you can see the effect of the interpolation working/not working with the small droplet which stays in place for 4 consecutive frames:
https ://youtu. be/DK-A3j-mino
(again assembly required, sorry... remove the space after the "https" and before the "be")
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That is exactly what it is. Huawei scammed us with fake specs

yeah... why is huawei not just honest?!? this way they sell a product intentionally with wrong specs! (with big advertisment on the webpage as well...) to me that's fraud, nothing else.

flowgeek said:
yeah... why is huawei not just honest?!? this way they sell a product intentionally with wrong specs! (with big advertisment on the webpage as well...) to me that's fraud, nothing else.
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Any sure procedure to report that with a solid proof

Xda staff would be posting articles about that if they were
honest

stabilzation in 1080 60 fps

Hi, has stabilization for 1080p 60 fps video been added or at least improved in latest updates. Who can confirm this ????

Never come OIS on 60 fps maybe!!! maybe eis possibble.but yet no

Saw this sample on youtube
It shows a well stabilized 60fps FHD video from the p20 pro.
Can anyone (having the latest soft update) test 60 fps FHD video Stabilization to figure out that

ketman5001 said:
Saw this sample on youtube
It shows a well stabilized 60fps FHD video from the p20 pro.
Can anyone (having the latest soft update) test 60 fps FHD video Stabilization to figure out that
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Bare in mind that YouTube stabilizes videos automatically.

dladz said:
Bare in mind that YouTube stabilizes videos automatically.
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In that case we would never notice unstabilized p20 pro videos from youtube posted videos

ketman5001 said:
In that case we would never notice unstabilized p20 pro videos from youtube posted videos
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Well you can see some ghosting but it does a decent job
Google photos can also stabilise videos.
But you just can't beat OIS

dladz said:
Well you can see some ghosting but it does a decent job
Google photos can also stabilise videos.
But you just can't beat OIS
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That s true. Huawei should at least implement EIS gyroscope based

ketman5001 said:
That s true. Huawei should at least implement EIS gyroscope based
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They can add a form of EIS but it'll never be brilliant, it's one of the reasons I wanted a new phone, the OnePlus 5 only had EIS, it's just not good enough.
With the pro though, 800 quid and no OIS throughout? Terrible to be honest.

Anyone has a credible explanation as to why OIS is not present at 1080 60? I can understand it not being available in higher resolutions but really at 1080 60, on a flagship with is marketed as (and by many agreed to be) the best camera phone of the market it's just not acceptable. Found out while waiting for my order to ship and am pretty pi$$ed.
Can we at least hope it will be added with a sw update in the future or it's not possible technically? Is the P20Pro sensor's OIS somehow bound to the 30fps?

mclisme said:
Anyone has a credible explanation as to why OIS is not present at 1080 60? I can understand it not being available in higher resolutions but really at 1080 60, on a flagship with is marketed as (and by many agreed to be) the best camera phone of the market it's just not acceptable. Found out while waiting for my order to ship and am pretty pi$$ed.
Can we at least hope it will be added with a sw update in the future or it's not possible technically? Is the P20Pro sensor's OIS somehow bound to the 30fps?
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P20 pro never had ois on its main camera, the rgb and mono. It only has ois on the telephoto 8mp lens to assist with too much vibration while zooming. The 1080p 30fps only uses eis/ais.

Afiuq said:
P20 pro never had ois on its main camera, the rgb and mono. It only has ois on the telephoto 8mp lens to assist with too much vibration while zooming. The 1080p 30fps only uses eis/ais.
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1080p @30fps has to be OIS??
I've been at the absolute maximum zoom limit whilst recording and the stabilization is amazing, if that's EIS then it's incredible and a lot better than any OIS i've ever seen on any device, I would say at 1080p 30fps it has OIS unless as i said it's got the best implementation of EIS i've ever seen.
Also @ the OP.
OIS by all accounts is available in the cameras on a hardware level but it's not been implemented, i read this a while ago about the p20 pro, whether or not they'll have this as a feature at some point I don't know, it wouldn't be unlike Huawei to add features but not make them active.

dladz said:
1080p @30fps has to be OIS??
I've been at the absolute maximum zoom limit whilst recording and the stabilization is amazing, if that's EIS then it's incredible and a lot better than any OIS i've ever seen on any device, I would say at 1080p 30fps it has OIS unless as i said it's got the best implementation of EIS i've ever seen.
Also @ the OP.
OIS by all accounts is available in the cameras on a hardware level but it's not been implemented, i read this a while ago about the p20 pro, whether or not they'll have this as a feature at some point I don't know, it wouldn't be unlike Huawei to add features but not make them active.
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I read somewhere that the rgb and mono hardware moving is for autofocus not ois. It's ais (ai stabilizer) that making the recording good at stabilizing.
Oh not to mention xperia's steady shot is EIS and not OIS and it's pretty good.

So, if it's all digital, does it make even more sense to expect it being available in the future on resolutions greater than 1080 30? I mean at least 1080 60 should be standard in 2018 flagships!

I bought a gimbal for $90... Im hoping this would do the trick for 4k stabilization...

gd6noob said:
I bought a gimbal for $90... Im hoping this would do the trick for 4k stabilization...
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My thoughts exactly. I am one click away form ordering the Zhiyun Smooth Q. Then again I know the AIS on the P20 Pro works superbly so I can maybe limit my videos to 1080 30? Decisions decisions...

mclisme said:
My thoughts exactly. I am one click away form ordering the Zhiyun Smooth Q. Then again I know the AIS on the P20 Pro works superbly so I can maybe limit my videos to 1080 30? Decisions decisions...
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Thats the one I got.. It seems to be pretty good... I havent done any intense testing just around the house for now.. works well...

dladz said:
1080p @30fps has to be OIS??
I've been at the absolute maximum zoom limit whilst recording and the stabilization is amazing, if that's EIS then it's incredible and a lot better than any OIS i've ever seen on any device, I would say at 1080p 30fps it has OIS unless as i said it's got the best implementation of EIS i've ever seen.
Also @ the OP.
OIS by all accounts is available in the cameras on a hardware level but it's not been implemented, i read this a while ago about the p20 pro, whether or not they'll have this as a feature at some point I don't know, it wouldn't be unlike Huawei to add features but not make them active.
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Yes it's AIS. And Sony uses the same excellent stabilisation. Better than OIS hands down. I had Sony phone before. Just a shame that Huawei didn't implement it at 4k and at 60fps.

Afiuq said:
I read somewhere that the rgb and mono hardware moving is for autofocus not ois. It's ais (ai stabilizer) that making the recording good at stabilizing.
Oh not to mention xperia's steady shot is EIS and not OIS and it's pretty good.
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Yea it's absolutely amazing. Never seen anything like it..

yeah EIS is good.. but it crops the image too much. I prefer OIS

So sad you’ll had to buy an stabilizer device.... having the most powerfull mobile in photos of 2018.... I have my iPhone 7 Plus with FHD/60fps with stabilization in fact.... better videos with a mobile of 2016...

4k not stabilized because poor Kirin 970 performance?

Anyone knows why the 4k are not stabilized? due to not enough power of the Chipset?
Also, ifixit says all the 3 cameras are optical stabilized, so it makes it more weird!
come on Huawei!!

They aren't. Only the zoom lens is stabilized.

I think it's a reasonable assumption to make that CPU and/or GPU performance is the reason - they offer last year's flagship performance. I'm surprised it can't even stabilize 1080p at 60FPS, though, and I hope that's added in a future release.
Ultimately, this is not a huge issue for me personally because I can hold the camera steady enough, and Google Photos has a stabilization function that you can use (although it will, of course, crop your video) but it's an appreciable deficiency for sure. Video recording on this device is unexceptional - it's at least a generation behind the competition.

all the pugs said:
They aren't. Only the zoom lens is stabilized.
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Not according to the teardown video.

Weren‘t there a feg articles that explained that the lenses are just stored floating?

they could at least use EIS for 4k as well tho..

The chipset performance is no excuse. It basically performs the same as the Snapdragon 835, and most devices with that one can do 4K stabilized.

nic85 said:
Anyone knows why the 4k are not stabilized? due to not enough power of the Chipset?
Also, ifixit says all the 3 cameras are optical stabilized, so it makes it more weird!
come on Huawei!!
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Nothing to do with Kirin pal.
At all.
This is a software implementation, could be added at any time.
Give them time..
You are right it should have been from the off, it'll happen, it has OIS according to a tear down reviewer.
See what happens..
The Kirin I've been surprised at, it ran Tekken 6 at a solid 60 FPS, which is hard for a mobile CPU/GPU
It's no slouch

Filming - What resolution & settings? How-to Widescreen/Cinema?

Hi guys,
I recently bought an DJI Mobile 3 (Gimbal) and looking to do some Widescreen shooting.
1) I'm supposed to present the film at a 1080 screen, is there any reason to shoot at an higher resolution? I'm thinking to film in 1080p @ 60 fps. Is this optimal?
2) What postprocessing app or/and film-app can I use to get the Widescreen/Cinema view?
Thanks for helping a novice out. I'm making a small commercial for my small company.

1) Unless you want to view it in a theater (which has a standard resolution of 8K) or a quarter of it (for 4K), nope. A 1080p footage will still look good enough at 100-120" provided you watch it from enough distance (3 meters or so). For the framerate, 60fps is the netflix standard, but cinematic movies all use 24fps (very few does 48fps). You can always reencode faster framerate to a slower one, just like you can reencode 4K into 1080p. 30fps tend to have better details, though, so if you after cinematic movie, record in 30fps instead.
2) Instead of postprocessing, get a quality anamorphic lens to get 21:9 aspect ratio. Apexel, Ulanzi, Moment, all have good one.
Little tip: Since you have a gimbal, turn off EIS to get wider view.

leledumbo said:
1) Unless you want to view it in a theater (which has a standard resolution of 8K) or a quarter of it (for 4K), nope. A 1080p footage will still look good enough at 100-120" provided you watch it from enough distance (3 meters or so). For the framerate, 60fps is the netflix standard, but cinematic movies all use 24fps (very few does 48fps). You can always reencode faster framerate to a slower one, just like you can reencode 4K into 1080p. 30fps tend to have better details, though, so if you after cinematic movie, record in 30fps instead.
2) Instead of postprocessing, get a quality anamorphic lens to get 21:9 aspect ratio. Apexel, Ulanzi, Moment, all have good one.
Little tip: Since you have a gimbal, turn off EIS to get wider view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great advice - bless you! Noted.
The Anamorphic Lens from Ulanzi is coming my way in the mail, I'm excited to try it out with the Gimbal.
Any advice on apps or WIN10 software to either shoot in or/and do some amature postprocessing? Should I shoot in the Mi 9 stock app with the Ulanzi on?
Sorry for all the Q's. Totally understand if you can't reply them all.

workdrojd said:
Any advice on apps or WIN10 software to either shoot in or/and do some amature postprocessing?
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No idea for that platform, my computer OS is Linux.
workdrojd said:
Should I shoot in the Mi 9 stock app with the Ulanzi on?
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You can, but if you want more finer controls (like smooth zooming by using a slider or the ability to use external mic unless you have direct USB-C mic), use Open Camera.

workdrojd said:
Hi guys,
I recently bought an DJI Mobile 3 (Gimbal) and looking to do some Widescreen shooting.
.
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Click to collapse
Hi man, got a question for you:
How do you feel using the DJI Mobile 3? I've been thinking buying one for a while now. Is it worth the money? Also, since Mi9 does not have OIS and only have EIS (which in my opinion is a bit trashy) does it stabilize well also when you turn off EIS on the phone?

workdrojd said:
Great advice - bless you! Noted.
The Anamorphic Lens from Ulanzi is coming my way in the mail, I'm excited to try it out with the Gimbal.
Any advice on apps or WIN10 software to either shoot in or/and do some amature postprocessing? Should I shoot in the Mi 9 stock app with the Ulanzi on?
Sorry for all the Q's. Totally understand if you can't reply them all.
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Click to collapse
movavi is quite a basic program, but Id suggest going the premiere pro route. Also, if you want the best of the best recording app, buy (or download a cracked apk) filmic pro.

Question Super Slow Motion Video

I'm opening this thread since I don't see it there.
Why do I get the impression that the 960 FPS Slow Motion that the Camera does is actually an interpolated version of a 240 FPS version?
Today I was curious to see how good it was, I put the 960 FPS mode and I said: I will finally be able to see every little detail of my experiments and social life.
I was very disappointed to see that after the video had been processed I would find myself with an old acquaintance of interpolation algorithms such as RIFE, CAIN or DAIN... The distortions. These flaws are common when interpolating videos as the AI is trying to guess where the next pixel will go in the next frame, as a consequence sometimes a teleportation effect is generated and that's what I realized today.
Honestly, that has left me disappointed because now I know that in the 960 FPS version, 3 out of 4 frames are not real.
It would be stupid to ask but the camera and processor specs support 960 FPS video. Why didn't Motorola actually implement it? Instead it is using the NPU to Interpolate

fulltronservice said:
I'm opening this thread since I don't see it there.
Why do I get the impression that the 960 FPS Slow Motion that the Camera does is actually an interpolated version of a 240 FPS version?
Today I was curious to see how good it was, I put the 960 FPS mode and I said: I will finally be able to see every little detail of my experiments and social life.
I was very disappointed to see that after the video had been processed I would find myself with an old acquaintance of interpolation algorithms such as RIFE, CAIN or DAIN... The distortions. These flaws are common when interpolating videos as the AI is trying to guess where the next pixel will go in the next frame, as a consequence sometimes a teleportation effect is generated and that's what I realized today.
Honestly, that has left me disappointed because now I know that in the 960 FPS version, 3 out of 4 frames are not real.
It would be stupid to ask but the camera and processor specs support 960 FPS video. Why didn't Motorola actually implement it? Instead it is using the NPU to Interpolate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They couldn't be bothered. Much about this device is made just to seem good on the surface but actually using it is a different story. I, for example, doubt that the main camera is even 108MP. Taking photos in 108MP does not offer any more detail than 12MP. They honestly should have just gone for an OIS 16MP or something but no, they went backwards from last generation and slapped in this garbage sensor, which is a shame since the telephoto and wide angle are actually great. I also noticed the messed up "960fps video" and I just never use it.

Username: Required said:
They couldn't be bothered. Much about this device is made just to seem good on the surface but actually using it is a different story. I, for example, doubt that the main camera is even 108MP. Taking photos in 108MP does not offer any more detail than 12MP. They honestly should have just gone for an OIS 16MP or something but no, they went backwards from last generation and slapped in this garbage sensor, which is a shame since the telephoto and wide angle are actually great. I also noticed the messed up "960fps video" and I just never use it.
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Actually in the rest of the sections I am satisfied for the price of the phone but in the quality of the main camera I was disappointed. I'm still using GCam and I can't find a way to make the photo display with its details.

fulltronservice said:
Actually in the rest of the sections I am satisfied for the price of the phone but in the quality of the main camera I was disappointed. I'm still using GCam and I can't find a way to make the photo display with its details.
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What do you mean by "display with it's detail"? The phone does take soft pictures with the main camera, I know. Shooting in RAW and opening the images in Light Room does show that there is a lot of detail that gets crushed due to the aggressive denoise algorithm that GCam uses, and the main camera app sharpens the image so much that it ends up looking like an oil painting.

Username: Required said:
What do you mean by "display with it's detail"? The phone does take soft pictures with the main camera, I know. Shooting in RAW and opening the images in Light Room does show that there is a lot of detail that gets crushed due to the aggressive denoise algorithm that GCam uses, and the main camera app sharpens the image so much that it ends up looking like an oil painting.
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With details I was referring to the information that the camera captures when you zoom in and start to see noise. I find no way to prevent the noise algorithm from creating corrections far from reality. When you take a picture, the photo is perfect until you zoom to 4x. You realize that you start to see noise and lose detail. And Motorola in the camera content update it released earlier this week hasn't fixed anything.