Has anybody ever seen this happen with ANY Sony phone that they've bought?
Found a seller who had a handful of what appeared to be still-sealed, never-used new-old-stock Z3 Compacts (U.S. model). These clearly aren't the Chinese refurbs-pretending-to-be-new counterfeits (the cardstock that the box is made out of is the right stuff, the included literature is the official stuff & not the generic knock-off with poor English spelling and grammar, etc.)
So I bought a couple, opened one up, powered it on, and...the bootloader was ALREADY unlocked on it (X-Reality wasn't working, etc.) so I checked DRM keys, and they were already GONE.
Opened up the second phone box, powered it up, checked it out: same story. Already BL-unlocked, DRM keys gone. So the first phone wasn't some weird "fluke".
WTF.
Both phone boxes had the circular, white Sony stickers/seals that visibly reveal "VOID" when peeled off. As far as I can tell, neither seal had been "tripped" in this manner; however, the of the two stickers (top and bottom) on both boxes, both of the bottom stickers almost looked like they had been re-applied despite the fact that the "VOID" text hadn't been revealed. I say this because both of them had an extra millimeter or so worth of sticker residue sitting to one side of them.
So it's almost like somebody removed the bottom security seal sticker, took the phone out, plugged it into a computer, unlocked the bootloader, re-packed the phone in the box, and had access to some new security stickers that they used to replace the one they removed, rather than re-using the already-peeled-off one.
My question is, knowing that BL unlock leads to DRM key loss, who on earth would do such a thing, and WHY? Is Sony known for sometimes shipping some phones already BL-unlocked (and DRM-less)?
nlra said:
Has anybody ever seen this happen with ANY Sony phone that they've bought?
Found a seller who had a handful of what appeared to be still-sealed, never-used new-old-stock Z3 Compacts (U.S. model). These clearly aren't the Chinese refurbs-pretending-to-be-new counterfeits (the cardstock that the box is made out of is the right stuff, the included literature is the official stuff & not the generic knock-off with poor English spelling and grammar, etc.)
So I bought a couple, opened one up, powered it on, and...the bootloader was ALREADY unlocked on it (X-Reality wasn't working, etc.) so I checked DRM keys, and they were already GONE.
Opened up the second phone box, powered it up, checked it out: same story. Already BL-unlocked, DRM keys gone. So the first phone wasn't some weird "fluke".
WTF.
Both phone boxes had the circular, white Sony stickers/seals that visibly reveal "VOID" when peeled off. As far as I can tell, neither seal had been "tripped" in this manner; however, the of the two stickers (top and bottom) on both boxes, both of the bottom stickers almost looked like they had been re-applied despite the fact that the "VOID" text hadn't been revealed. I say this because both of them had an extra millimeter or so worth of sticker residue sitting to one side of them.
So it's almost like somebody removed the bottom security seal sticker, took the phone out, plugged it into a computer, unlocked the bootloader, re-packed the phone in the box, and had access to some new security stickers that they used to replace the one they removed, rather than re-using the already-peeled-off one.
My question is, knowing that BL unlock leads to DRM key loss, who on earth would do such a thing, and WHY? Is Sony known for sometimes shipping some phones already BL-unlocked (and DRM-less)?
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Click to collapse
Bootloader - unlocked out of box is very rare.
There are two possibilities.
One is that someone, inside Sony, or inside the 'void' tape manufacturer, packaged a bootloader unlocked used phone and sell it as new.
The second is that some careless people in Sony accidentally put a prototype sony test phone (for testing purposes) which has bootloader unlocked, into a box, and sealed.
LR7875 said:
Bootloader - unlocked out of box is very rare.
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Click to collapse
No cr*p.
TWO of them, from the same SHIPMENT, is even rarer.
LR7875 said:
[...] someone, inside Sony, or inside the 'void' tape manufacturer, packaged a bootloader unlocked used phone and sell it as new.
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Click to collapse
These phones are definitely not used. At least not visibly. All external casing is pristine. I realize that even the Chinese refurbishers can do a good job at this, but even then there are differences that you can spot between "real" new and "refurbished" new.
LR7875 said:
The second is that some careless people in Sony accidentally put a prototype sony test phone (for testing purposes) which has bootloader unlocked, into a box, and sealed.
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Click to collapse
This seems even less likely. Again: twice? BOTH of them in U.S. retail packaging, and in the same shipment from the same warehouse??
I'm not saying I have the answer either (or else I wouldn't be posting this!), but there has to be more than just these two possibilities, because they both seem highly unlikely.
The best theories I've been able to come up with so far are these, but I'm also not happy with / convinced of either of them:
Sony U.S. had a bunch of new-old-stock Z3c sitting in a warehouse somewhere, and dumped them onto the market to get rid of them...but went through and sabotaged all of the units first by unlocking the bootloader. Kinda like how book publishers or music publishers often dump unsold stock when they have a glut of inventory, but not before ripping off one of the covers or punching a hole in the CD case or liner/booklet to reduce its value and make it "un-sale-able" as new (since they won't be making any profit on those sales).
Some moron in the supply chain who snagged these new-old-stock phones knows enough to be dangerous...that is, he knows that "unlocked" phones (meaning *SIM* unlocked) are worth more on the market than (SIM) "locked" ones. So not understanding that these unbranded U.S. retail phones are SIM-unlocked already, he Googled "Sony Z3 Compact how to unlock", and proceeded to *unlock the bootloaders* on all of them & thus unknowingly throwing out the DRM keys in the process, all so that he could advertise them as being "unlocked".
Phones were loaded with Customized U.S. firmware, in U.S. packaging. Both came out of their boxes running Lollipop 5.0.2, Sony build 23.1.A.1.28. No signs of the usual Sony prototype language anywhere to be seen. Batteries were both completely flat when they arrived, so they must have been sitting in storage for a while.
Maybe a bigger secret is to be discovered then. You know, anything can happen, some members even got their hands on some FBI phones.
Is it bricked? Cannot flash stock Android to remove ArcaneOS
I recently purchased a used Pixel 4a, and I now understand why the seller was offering such good price for it and why he refused to respond to me now I have it. This phone has ArcanseOS 10 installed, which has only 3 apps installed... Setting...
forum.xda-developers.com
LR7875 said:
Maybe a bigger secret is to be discovered then. You know, anything can happen, some members even got their hands on some FBI phones.
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Click to collapse
I doubt it; these genuinely seem to be bone-stock other than the fact that, well, y'know...somebody unlocked the bootloaders / wiped out the DRM keys, and then sold them as new-in-box.
Well if they are selling old phones as new then why unlock the bootloader? Seems odd.
Related
Hello, my first post here and i'll be honest, i haven't done much research or searched this forum (fresh problem, not enough time), but believe that my problem might be unique so please bear with me.
The phone in question is in lithuania - is locked to T-mobile, the seller will try to unlock it, i almost bought the phone but couldn't figure out course of action to unlock it since i'm neither Tmobile customer, neither have receipt for this phone, furthermore i found corrosive like damage under the back cover of phone.
What worries me is lack of PN SN barcode sticker in picture 01 (i wasn't comfortable to post numbers i found there, so i blured them out), "molten" plastic damage seen in all 3 pictures, copper something sticking in picture 02 below camera (i believe it may be bluetooth or other antenna) and overall opinion about extent of damage found here. Otherwise the phone looks fine on the outside, touchscreen works, no dead pixels, minimal bruises on case.
Origin of phone is from USA, guy bought both of them there (one for his wife but she didn't like this "brick"), his own phone also sports deformed plastic inside, but seems to work so i'm at loss here, what may be the cause of this deformation, is it normal or what..? Dealer seems like honest guy who may actually be duped himself...
How much did you pay for that? Were these issues made clear pre-sale? Did you get it off eBay?
That is not normal at all. As well, with no serial # and the semi-stripped screws I would bet the phone is either a) refurbed or b) stolen/made of stolen phones. I don't know of many refurbished phone sellers that remove serial #'s and FCC labels that are reqiured by law to be on the device.
to pjcforpres>>
i almost bought it, the seller was honest enough to return money, will try to unlock then we may meet again and try to check is phone working at all.
Considering new like appearance of outside he was surprised himself (i won't judge him, returned money afterall, almost got duped myself).
I haven't bought it from ebay, because couldn't find anything on ebay that would be of reasonable price and send to lithuania (we are known of failure, i won't deny) - was tracking few days ago developer phone on co.uk, but friend with excelent feedback couldn't even attempt to bet because lithuania is a no no
The phone came with american like charger - it is possible that it was stolen in USA and sent here or sold to the poor guy back there. As i mentioned above, his own phone sports damage though he uses his phone just fine. About missing SN stickers.. well ... what can i say?
Phone price goes 540 lithuanian money with going course (3.4528 Eur, 2.3758 $) approx 156 Eur or 227$. Issue about unlocking was told beforehand, i haven't predicted that it could pose a problem.
As long as you got your money back. You might want to try calling a seller/emailing an eBay seller and seeing if they would sell to you on the basis they don't ship until the payment fully clears, I would bet most retailers and some eBay sellers would be willing to work out/accept something along those lines.
If you ask me it looks like somebody tried to glue the back cover on...
To me it looks like it got run over by a truck...
Is there a "life" counter like there was in old nokias where you couldnt reset it and it showed the number of minutes the phone was used (both incoming & outgoing) ?
Hm... check the IMEI, every motherboard / phone should have a unique number.
EarlZ said:
Hm... check the IMEI, every motherboard / phone should have a unique number.
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I bought a new phone and I have a feeling it is not new.. thats why I want to know.
oholic said:
I bought a new phone and I have a feeling it is not new.. thats why I want to know.
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Ah.. there are lots of signs if a phone is used, a bit hard to put it into words but when you get it you can really tell.
I alway look for the protective film on the screen to be perfect, I have never had a new phone that isn't. I also look at the accessories and their packaging and if there have been any tamper stickers removed from the box. A friend once bought new N96 from a well known web site that was in actual fact was reconitioned, no protective film on screen and the box had already been opened. But sorry I do not know how to check the phones software.
Its pretty hard to find it through firmware, because a firmware flash resets almost everything. Even in old Nokia phones you can reset the lifetime counter.
Check the manufactured date of the battery, if its only few months old (i.e Oct or later) then chances are the phone is new. Other than that you have to rely on physical signs, condition of the accessories and box. What about the screen protector ? It comes with a screen protector that has some logos printed on it, make sure its there and no dust particles are trapped underneath (an indication that it has been removed and placed back again). The box also has a seal, but most stores breaks it to check for the contents and put warranty stickers or put SIM cards in. Other than that the the phone usually has a fresh new plastic smell.
Its relatively easy to spot a used phone when you carefully examine it, for example if you can find dust under the battery door, in speaker grills , or see fingerprint smudges etc. The battery is usually shipped half full, if you find it dead or 100% charged that might indicated the phone has been used before (at least for a brief period). Also take a closer look at the charger especially the power pins. These are some of the ways you can check, but none of these are guaranteed ways to make sure.
I think you need to enter engineer mode to see some sort of life timer.
You can also check the battery's contact.
ROOT your phone, get root explorer and check system folders creation dates. My oldest files are december 2010 and i bought phone in january.
icsterm said:
ROOT your phone, get root explorer and check system folders creation dates. My oldest files are december 2010 and i bought phone in january.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good idea!
Hi guys, I just received a brand new Galaxy Note this morning from a 3rd party seller on Amazon. I have a quick question though. I'm kinda picky about getting factory sealed devices, and this was supposedly a new Note. But when I opened the UPS package and took out the box, there were seals on the top and bottom. Everything looked OK, but upon further inspection the top seal had actually been broken (and the box opened, I assume), and then a second seal was placed over the broken first one to give the appearance of a factory sealed device.
I called the seller, and he claimed that the distributor whom he got the Note from opened the box for whatever reason (I'm still unclear as to why) and then resealed it with a second sticker placed over the first. Personally, I've never heard of this being done to a factory sealed device, but then again, what do I know?
The Note does appear new, but the guy's story just seemed kinda weird to me. Does his explanation hold water with you guys?
Thanks in advance, and take care.
I would be suspicious...but that's my nature. Be sure the IMEI under the battery matches that on the box. If there's a talk time indicator that can't be reset, be sure the phone hasn't been used. It could be a previous customer return, etc. Who is the 3rd party seller? You may want to mention it to Amazon. "Legit" reason or not for opening it, new in box means new in box, not opened between Samsung and your house.
Call up the distributor and ask him........
Or get it replaced if you can........A sealed device should come sealed and there is no reason whatsoever for the distributor/seller to open the device.
Btw, I can relate to being picky about sealed devices......When I had went to the mobile shop to go get a Droid Razr , the guy told me the shop only had the display model available for sale - rest were all sold out.I got the Note-which came sealed , thankfully !
Beethoven9th said:
Hi guys, I just received a brand new Galaxy Note this morning from a 3rd party seller on Amazon. I have a quick question though. I'm kinda picky about getting factory sealed devices, and this was supposedly a new Note. But when I opened the UPS package and took out the box, there were seals on the top and bottom. Everything looked OK, but upon further inspection the top seal had actually been broken (and the box opened, I assume), and then a second seal was placed over the broken first one to give the appearance of a factory sealed device.
I called the seller, and he claimed that the distributor whom he got the Note from opened the box for whatever reason (I'm still unclear as to why) and then resealed it with a second sticker placed over the first. Personally, I've never heard of this being done to a factory sealed device, but then again, what do I know?
The Note does appear new, but the guy's story just seemed kinda weird to me. Does his explanation hold water with you guys?
Thanks in advance, and take care.
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Click to collapse
nothing picky man. u spent money to buy a product and u deserve a right as a customer to be the first one to have ur hands on it, not someone who would replace the seal. check the talk time as the advice given above, and if you don't feel good abt it, get it replaced.
+1 on getting it replaced. You bought a new unopened device. The seal means just that. Return at expense of the company for not complying. its assumed you'd get a new device for the price.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
What kind of charger did it come with? Is it U.S.? (Your profile doesn't show your location...) If so, they may have opened it to put the charger in, as no Notes come with U.S. chargers since it hasn't been released here.
OP I ordered from amazon from oem shop and my phone box had the samsung seal already opened, however there was another orange seal on top of it. So it looks like they were opened at some point and then the reseller put another seal sticker on top of the original one.
I have no issues with my note so I'm not worried about it.
Same with mine. Done to check out product to ensure all pieces are there and work etc. No big deal imo but to each his own
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
inurb said:
OP I ordered from amazon from oem shop and my phone box had the samsung seal already opened, however there was another orange seal on top of it. So it looks like they were opened at some point and then the reseller put another seal sticker on top of the original one.
I have no issues with my note so I'm not worried about it.
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Click to collapse
same here the orange seal still shows a samung seal and when the orange top layer on the seal is disturbed or removed a watermark showing VOID appears i believe they do this as to place the converter for the euro charger to american in the box but mines workin fine cept for heating up a bit
Got mine from "Global Mobiles" (Prime shipping overnight) and my seals were both in-tact.
A lot of distributors does this.
Either to add stuff to the package, to upgrade software or add configuration / special firmware.
If you check your warranty and that shows the correct start date, I'd just ignore the sticker.
-KJ
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
I'd send it back. New should be sealed.
Mine was sealed but had a USA adapter for the German plug in the amazon box (not in the sealed Note box).
Thanks to everyone!
Thanks to everyone who responded. I ended up sending my Note back at the seller's expense, and now I'm waiting for my refund once it's delivered. I had felt uncomfortable with the transaction because the seller kept giving me unusual answers to simple questions.
Anyway, it all worked out for the best (assuming my refund goes through) because I ended up getting a Note on eBay for $629!
Thanks again, guys, and Happy Holidays.
Upon reading this thread I rechecked my box, bought from OEM Shop, it indeed has a second seal, I guess to put in the wall plug converter. I'm not worried, since myphone works fine. It's probably smarter if they included the converter from the outside.
I even feel less secured buying from eBay since most of them are opened box unless explicitly stated as sealed.
Weird my box only had one seal period. the other side of the box didn't have a broken seal or a seal at all. Mine came from l2d2 and had the usa adapter in the box.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
I think that the first place to check if the device is really new or not is the battery connectors.
The battery side of those is often mate color and gets a bit shinier after insertion and rubbing with the main unit pins.
I guess this would be a good tell-tale of weither it s been turned on before or not.
I buy all my phones on the grey market here in China/Hong Kong, and this is the first place I check.
Also not sure about the note (will get one soon ), but the bottom of the SGS2, for example is shinny plastic that gets little scratches VERY easily, also could be a place to check
Hope this will help a little!
I bought my GNote from an Australian online seller after seeing a post on XDA about it being the worlds best price at $630 with post. Shopping Square. From Sydney it should take 2 days post (Aus Post is worlds fastest 80% of the time).
The site said it might take anything up to 10 days. It took 12 and came from Hong Kong with a German manual, european power supply and Australian converter plug.
The screen when loading the Market shows light and dark patches of gray. The box had both seals broken. I suspect its a used warranty return. If i had known then i would have kept my money to buy a definately new one for more or definately second hand for less. Aside from the suspicious uneven gray i cant see screen problems at any other times.
The site doesnt explicitely say the product is new. But phone shops selling new phones dont say that either. I will just have to love it how it is. Fast and getting faster when i fix software problems ;-)
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
eksasol said:
Upon reading this thread I rechecked my box, bought from OEM Shop, it indeed has a second seal, I guess to put in the wall plug converter. I'm not worried, since myphone works fine. It's probably smarter if they included the converter from the outside.
I even feel less secured buying from eBay since most of them are opened box unless explicitly stated as sealed.
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Click to collapse
OEM Shop seems like a good seller. I saw their listing and specifically asked them if the Note was factory sealed. They answered with an honest 'No' and stated that the seals are broken although the phones are still brand new, never been used. I appreciated the honest reply.
But the seller I ended up going through told me that their Note was indeed factory sealed, yet when I received it, the box had been opened (re: my original post). Chances are, the phone was probably OK, but I just don't like being told something that's less-than-true, especially when I'm throwing down this much money.
Anyway, I have since received my Note from the eBay seller, and I was happy to find that this Note was in fact factory sealed.
Didn't the HTC Vivid come out in November 2011? If so I should have some type of warranty still right? I have original box, and have registered the imei under my account. The screen has 3 black dots 1cm apart from each other, in 5 places in the middle of the screen in perfect lines. Also, it has blue splotches in 3 or 4 spots.
Person sold it to me claimed it was almost brand new and it looks to be in great shape other then the screen (Was outside, didn't see the pixels until I got home.)
Any advice? I called my local AT&T store today and the guy didn't even know when the phone came out to check if it was still under warranty. I am wondering if I should contact HTC directly or if calling 611 (AT&T) would result in better luck.
I love the phone so I want to keep it and get it fixed.
Check if it's S-OFF or has an unlocked bootloader. An unlocked bootloader (or relocked) may void the warranty, but since the guy said that it was almost brand new, everything's probably the way it came out of the box (but check anyways!). Also, call the guy you bought it off of about the screen. If the screen was defective to begin with, then it should be covered under warranty. HTC's policy doesn't cover problems caused by wear and tear or physical damage.
Don't forget that you'll need the original proof of purchase for your claim. If you don't have it, call the guy to see if you can obtain it. It's worth reading HTC's warranty statement for any small details.
So yes, your phone may be covered under the warranty, although there are a few things you'll need to get and check.
I hope this helps!
You might be in luck. Sometimes the warranty follows the device and now the original owner, doesn't hurt to try even without proof of purchase.
Also, we need to check to make sure your phone isn't tampered with so warranty will go smoothly. Turn off your device, pull the battery, put battery back in, hold the power button while holding the volume down button. On that screen, let us know if it says "locked", "unlocked", or "relocked" and also "S-OFF" or "S-ON". If it is locked and S-ON then you are good to go.
Well im a flash addict and first thing I did was unlock bootloader and flash a Rom. It's still s-on and I know I can relock the bootloader but I assume they can see its been relocked.
It was a girl who sold it to me and she isn't very helpful and I believe she knew it was messed up and didn't tell me. Also she drove 35 minutes to meet me. Maybe she will respond to my VM / text but probably not.
It has had the highest end otterbox on it from day 1 (supposedly) and it has 0 scratches and actually looks brand new minus the screen.
When I get home from work ill upload a high res pic of the screen. The pixels are perfectly aligned all the way down the screen. Idk how someone could break it themselves and the dead spots be so perfectly aligned.
Sent from my HTC Raider X710e using xda premium
bts0uth said:
Well im a flash addict and first thing I did was unlock bootloader and flash a Rom. It's still s-on and I know I can relock the bootloader but I assume they can see its been relocked.
It was a girl who sold it to me and she isn't very helpful and I believe she knew it was messed up and didn't tell me. Also she drove 35 minutes to meet me. Maybe she will respond to my VM / text but probably not.
It has had the highest end otterbox on it from day 1 (supposedly) and it has 0 scratches and actually looks brand new minus the screen.
When I get home from work ill upload a high res pic of the screen. The pixels are perfectly aligned all the way down the screen. Idk how someone could break it themselves and the dead spots be so perfectly aligned.
Sent from my HTC Raider X710e using xda premium
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Click to collapse
I've heard multiple stories where people's phones were unlocked and even S-OFF and HTC either didn't care or didn't look. Go ahead and re-lock the bootloader and then run your carriers RUU to get back to stock. Your issue a hardware related one. Therefore I can't possibly see a software tampering (unlocking bootloader) voiding the warranty for a hardware related issue.
any luck OP?
So I've got two M7s, but one's got a bit of a scratch (you know the ones that are screen wide and have slightly bent the phone near the back?). Is there any possible way to swap out the S/N, P/N, and IMEI either by flashing or otherwise so I can claim the one for a screen repair under the guise of my newer phone? Or should I just be an honest man and just buy the components individually
shalpp said:
So I've got two M7s, but one's got a bit of a scratch (you know the ones that are screen wide and have slightly bent the phone near the back?). Is there any possible way to swap out the S/N, P/N, and IMEI either by flashing or otherwise so I can claim the one for a screen repair under the guise of my newer phone? Or should I just be an honest man and just buy the components individually
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
afaik, changing/swapping IMEI's is illegal in most (if not all) countries, and i believe only the manufacturer has the right to do that.
Be honest!!
Thread closed,
The best thing to do is to simply send the device in for repair as is. At XDA we would never condone any actions that could void warranty etc.
Many thanks,
Ghost