Hi.
I want to ask, if theres any way, to get the phone to just save the RAW Sensor output with 108MP without compressing or altering
the image in any way?
I also ask myself already all the time, why the 108MP setting is only possible in the stock camera app.
If you use for example open camera, its not possible to set a resolution bigger than 12MP. Is this a error, or why does
this happen?
Regards
The 108 mp is hype. The top Canon pro cam is 24.1 mp on a sensor many times bigger. It delivers much sharper, higher resolution images than any smartphone can. It also uses lens that have exponentially more light gathering ability.
Bigger pixels mean more light gathering ability and a higher signal to noise ratio. The noise floor is constant and you need a strong enough signal to overcome it even in digital data sampling.
The highest reasonable mp size for a phone cam sersor is 20mp but 12mp is probably ideal. Sound familiar?
At 108mp that sensor's light gathering ability is almost nothing especially with a lense that size.
Maybe in bright light stills but even then it may lack the bandwidth and processor power to accommodate that amount of data.
How many raw 108 mp images would you even want to store if it was possible?
ME20001 said:
Hi.
I want to ask, if theres any way, to get the phone to just save the RAW Sensor output with 108MP without compressing or altering
the image in any way?
I also ask myself already all the time, why the 108MP setting is only possible in the stock camera app.
If you use for example open camera, its not possible to set a resolution bigger than 12MP. Is this a error, or why does
this happen?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are on stock MIUI, there's the possibility to make 108 but if you compare with a gcam app like Shamim V12 you'll see that the 108 of MIUI is not as good as gcam pixel binning, further more more storage is needed
Laptapper said:
If you are on stock MIUI, there's the possibility to make 108 but if you compare with a gcam app like Shamim V12 you'll see that the 108 of MIUI is not as good as gcam pixel binning, further more more storage is needed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They had been far better off using larger pixels with better microlense quality/design than doing the binning garbage. Binning only screws up the signal to noise ratio more by increasing the noise floor. A smartphone is already a warm, electronicly noisy device as it is... the enemies of cmos sensors.
Binning is effective to a point at the cost of resolution for low light performance. 108mp binning on a sensor of the size used on smartphones seems counterproductive. Binning can introduce artifacts to the image.
Yes yes yes, I know about the disadvntages of this high resolution, I am into DSLR photography,
but I want to see how the RAW picture from the sensor at full resolution the sensor can deliver looks.
It seems to be impossible to get on a real RAW photo on Stock MIUI ROM?
(I Want to install another ROM anyways, but still waiting for bootloader unlock permission)
Do you have a rom to suggest, that is able to make real 108MP RAW photos, and probably 8k Video (The sensor A Samsung
Isocell HM2 supports that, the ROM doesnt)
blackhawk said:
They had been far better off using larger pixels with better microlense quality/design than doing the binning garbage. Binning only screws up the signal to noise ratio more by increasing the noise floor. A smartphone is already a warm, electronicly noisy device as it is... the enemies of cmos sensors.
Binning is effective to a point at the cost of resolution for low light performance. 108mp binning on a sensor of the size used on smartphones seems counterproductive. Binning can introduce artifacts to the image.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right.
But 108 stock isn't good as 12 in gcam, or what you think?
Which cam and settings you're using?
GCAM Doesnt allow 108MP, the stock camera APP seems to be the only one that allows 108, but only as JPG, not
as RAW10 the sensor can output native.
I want to see, how a photo in 108MP looks straight out of the sensor, but it seems not that easy to get
your hnds on one, without the device modifies it before...
Laptapper said:
You're right.
But 108 stock isn't good as 12 in gcam, or what you think?
Which cam and settings you're using?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't have this phone. It's likely optimized at or near the best ratio.
At higher brightness levels and if digitally zoomed in it may deliver higher resolution (for that given area).
It's seems these manufacturers now have a rather pointless pixel race in progress.
So to say it short: No one here knows how to get RAW 108MP Photos out of the sensor?
ME20001 said:
So to say it short: No one here knows how to get RAW 108MP Photos out of the sensor?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No such thing is my guess. The hardware has to support that method of output. The best you can do is whatever the lowest binning rate is. If has provisions to access individual pixels on a hardware level it be possible.
The Hardware (Sensor) can do RAW 10 at full 108MP resolution, see here:
108MP ISOCELL HM2 | Mobile Image Sensor | Samsung Semiconductor Global
Samsung ISOCELL HM2 mobile image sensor brings every detail of your scene to life. It delivers 108MP, 0.7um pixel size and Real-time HDR.
semiconductor.samsung.com
It also can record at 8k 24fps or 4k 120fps, but the device doesnt allow 8k at all, and 4k recording only at 30fps...
It seems that they have locked down the software, for what reason ever, probably because its a mid class phone, to prevent
it come too near to the upper class devices...
Its camera also makes already very good photos, if you know what you have to set in the settings. I really would
like to see how this would look in 10Bits uncompressed RAW at 108MP, I tried to upload here one of the 108MP JPG Photos,
but it broke the forum:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Heres a Dropbox Link for the Picture:
IMG_20220328_153250.jpg
Shared with Dropbox
www.dropbox.com
Best is to download it and then take a look on it, the Previev on Dropbox seems to have some issues to handle that resolution.
affirmative it's possible as of today, previously the sensors full potential wasn't accessible due to the extensive os and system feature lock downs but even after the phones themselves were capable of being unlocked the sensor still remained unavailable because it has it's own dedicated chipset that has a dedicated partial operation and algorithm system which meant that it couldn't be modified or accessed unless you had very specialized equipment. there's a lot of technical complexity that i've forgoed elaborating upon to keep this response less lengthy lol, at any rate after roughly a year of effort i've finally found a way to bypass all of the restrictions and i'll be potentially publishing the results of the code named C.I.A.R.A. project once my tests are complete and furthermore i may be able to make such feature functionality commercially available and distributable once the project has been thoroughly and fully completed in all of it's entirely lol.
^_^
nosidamXumres said:
affirmative it's possible as of today, previously the sensors full potential wasn't accessible due to the extensive os and system feature lock downs but even after the phones themselves were capable of being unlocked the sensor still remained unavailable because it has it's own dedicated chipset that has a dedicated partial operation and algorithm system which meant that it couldn't be modified or accessed unless you had very specialized equipment. there's a lot of technical complexity that i've forgoed elaborating upon to keep this response less lengthy lol, at any rate after roughly a year of effort i've finally found a way to bypass all of the restrictions and i'll be potentially publishing the results of the code named C.I.A.R.A. project once my tests are complete and furthermore i may be able to make such feature functionality commercially available and distributable once the project has been thoroughly and fully completed in all of it's entirely lol.
^_^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to XDA.
Pictures or it never happened.
The individual pixels are so minuscule their sampling capture is pathetic and is further exacerbated by the noise floor/noise cancellation errors. Good pixel lens at this microscopic size... no such thing especially at this price point.
A good 26mp even 20mp sensor can capture a sufficient amount of detail for even poster size blowups. These are full frame sensors with precision pixel lens.
Samsung knows this... you'll get a mushy raw image with a hugh file size. Perfect.
blackhawk said:
Welcome to XDA.
Pictures or it never happened.
The individual pixels are so minuscule their sampling capture is pathetic and is further exacerbated by the noise floor/noise cancellation errors. Good pixel lens at this microscopic size... no such thing especially at this price point.
A good 26mp even 20mp sensor can capture a sufficient amount of detail for even poster size blowups. These are full frame sensors with precision pixel lens.
Samsung knows this... you'll get a mushy raw image with a hugh file size. Perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's a bit of an impolite thing to say although rest assured once it's finished i'll have to find a platform to upload it to so that it can be accessed and viewed without compression, one individual recommended google photos or documents or something like that lol and indeed i usually enjoy the benefits of high resolution capture for forest and nature based photography as of such i usually utilize it during the daytime so the pixel light collection area size isn't a concern for me personally lol also affirmativ the standardized twelve to twenty four megapixel resolution of most modern camera's likely work for the majority of individuals lol.
^_^
nosidamXumres said:
that's a bit of an impolite thing to say although rest assured once it's finished i'll have to find a platform to upload it to so that it can be accessed and viewed without compression, one individual recommended google photos or documents or something like that lol and indeed i usually enjoy the benefits of high resolution capture for forest and nature based photography as of such i usually utilize it during the daytime so the pixel light collection area size isn't a concern for me personally lol also affirmativ the standardized twelve to twenty four megapixel resolution of most modern camera's likely work for the majority of individuals lol.
^_^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not impolite, blunt.
I don't think it's capable of much greater resolution than it's getting as is.
Grabbing a good sample per pixel is more important than number of pixels.
16mp is a lot.
As is the file size you're going to get with a raw...
nosidamXumres said:
affirmative it's possible as of today, previously the sensors full potential wasn't accessible due to the extensive os and system feature lock downs but even after the phones themselves were capable of being unlocked the sensor still remained unavailable because it has it's own dedicated chipset that has a dedicated partial operation and algorithm system which meant that it couldn't be modified or accessed unless you had very specialized equipment. there's a lot of technical complexity that i've forgoed elaborating upon to keep this response less lengthy lol, at any rate after roughly a year of effort i've finally found a way to bypass all of the restrictions and i'll be potentially publishing the results of the code named C.I.A.R.A. project once my tests are complete and furthermore i may be able to make such feature functionality commercially available and distributable once the project has been thoroughly and fully completed in all of it's entirely lol.
^_^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We look forward to your project.
So the code , I take it directly interfaces with the camera or not ?
any elaborations there ?
NEWTINGZ said:
We look forward to your project.
So the code , I take it directly interfaces with the camera or not ?
any elaborations there ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
affirmative that is correct traditionally the only information that comes from specifically the one hundred and eight megapixel sensor with moderate exceptions to the others is the data that has been processed by it's onboard algorithm to compress and save space with and roughly the only information going to that sensors chipset is traditionally update and diagnostic information but now that's been technically bypassed utilizing a code and language that unfortunately can only be emulated which makes it very inefficient because it was designed for completely different custom hardware but nonetheless the project is complete, where can i find a compressionless platform to upload and share my photos? also the image's on average are roughly almost a hundred and fifty megabytes including various metadata lol.
^_^
nosidamXumres said:
affirmative that is correct traditionally the only information that comes from specifically the one hundred and eight megapixel sensor with moderate exceptions to the others is the data that has been processed by it's onboard algorithm to compress and save space with and roughly the only information going to that sensors chipset is traditionally update and diagnostic information but now that's been technically bypassed utilizing a code and language that unfortunately can only be emulated which makes it very inefficient because it was designed for completely different custom hardware but nonetheless the project is complete, where can i find a compressionless platform to upload and share my photos? also the image's on average are roughly almost a hundred and fifty megabytes including various metadata lol.
^_^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey there!
i have been waiting for some update on the project.
This might help-
READ THIS FIRST - Development Rules
I know we all have busy lives and don't have time to go through a list of long winded rules, so here's a shortened version to make your life easier Only the following topics are allowed in DEVELOPMENT area: [DEV] - Development for any special...
forum.xda-developers.com
You can create a new thread for the development of the project you have made and store the images in a .zip file and share the file with dropbox, gdrive or mega etc.
(Remember to attach the code, and some information about it in the thread you make.)
M0nK_101 said:
Hey there!
i have been waiting for some update on the project.
This might help-
READ THIS FIRST - Development Rules
I know we all have busy lives and don't have time to go through a list of long winded rules, so here's a shortened version to make your life easier Only the following topics are allowed in DEVELOPMENT area: [DEV] - Development for any special...
forum.xda-developers.com
You can create a new thread for the development of the project you have made and store the images in a .zip file and share the file with dropbox, gdrive or mega etc.
(Remember to attach the code, and some information about it in the thread you make.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the suggestions i appreciate it, i created a post attaching images and sharing a google drive link lol.
^_^
Thread 's21 ultra 108mp raw' https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/s21-ultra-108mp-raw.4589163/
nosidamXumres said:
thanks for the suggestions i appreciate it, i created a post attaching images and sharing a google drive link lol.
^_^
Thread 's21 ultra 108mp raw' https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/s21-ultra-108mp-raw.4589163/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read your new post and it's amazing
Hopefully, you'll make the new project available to the public soon.
If you want help, there are many individuals on the internet, you don't need to disclose the language used or anything confidential.
All you need to do, is explain the concept of how you made it possible, and probably there will be someone who'll come for the rescue.
one more suggestion -
you can open a github repo, and add the code which you are trying to make (the latest one), there might be someone who could help....
(ty for mentioning me, it's fine ^_^)
also, both communities of rn10pro and s21_ultra can help you, just gotta mention the working and goal of your idea, and it'll work.
Related
hello,
I own an HTC Touch Diamond and I need some technical information about the device. Specifically, I need the extended specifications for the main camera. And particularly the focal length of the lens.
I have searched the official User Manual and the web, but no analytical information was found. The only source that proved a bit helpful was the Service Manual that was found through the relevant thread of xda-developers. The problem is that in this document, more than one manufacturers are listed for that component.
Can you please provide the technical characteristics for the camera, or a link to a manufacturer and model no.
I am a research student and this information is vital for the progress of my project.
Any help or directions will be much appreciated.
Many thanks
tsioubliou said:
hello,
Specifically, I need the extended specifications for the main camera. And particularly the focal length of the lens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Turn it over and read the text on the bottom!
hello,
thanks but the only information that is provided on the device is the Aperture (F2.8), the resolution (3.2 MP) and Auto-Focus. I am looking for the Focal length of the lens or some relevant info that will enable me to accurately calculate it.
Also, I believe the manufacturer and model will prove useful for further investigation.
Many thanks
tsioubliou said:
hello,
thanks but the only information that is provided on the device is the Aperture (F/2.8), the resolution (3.2 MP) and Auto-Focus. I am looking for the Focal length of the lens or some relevant info that will enable me to accurately calculate it.
Also, I believe the manufacturer and model will prove useful for further investigation.
Many thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, but F is for Focal lenght!
could we oneday mod for full 30fps vid on the diamond lik the xperia?
hello,
I wish you were right as you would save me from a lot of trouble, but generaly this structure symbolises the Aperture. If you are interested have a look at:
http://www.photoaxe.com/understanding-the-lens-focal-length-and-aperture/ or http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-lenses.htm
Do you believe that HTC may have used this conversion (F2.8) to describe the Focal Length, without adding the appropriate measuring unit (mm)?
Many thanks
Uhm....
I think f is for aperture
not focal length
It's totally different
Focal length like 50mm, 28mm, .....
always with mm at the back
tsioubliou said:
hello,
I wish you were right as you would save me from a lot of trouble, but generaly this structure symbolises the Aperture. If you are interested have a look at:
http://www.photoaxe.com/understanding-the-lens-focal-length-and-aperture/ or http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-lenses.htm
Do you believe that HTC may have used this conversion (F2.8) to describe the Focal Length, without adding the appropriate measuring unit (mm)?
Many thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number
I think you will find that the F-stop (F number 2.8) is the focal length divided by the diameter of the lens and not the focal lenght itself.
I know that the Touch Pro has the F2.8 on the case but believe the Diamond does not, correct me if wrong, does this mean that the Touch Pro camera is a little better?
A F2.8 is a pretty impressive apeture for a phone camera and I have found it to perform a little better than other 3.2 MP phone camera.
The US Diamond does have "F2.8 Autofocus..." printed on the back. I would agree that is likely an f/2.8 aperture.
Can't you just take a pic of a ruler/yardstick, etc at a set distance and calculate the effective focal length? http://www.giangrandi.ch/optics/lenses/focalcalc.html
I haven't used the camera much and I'm not too impressed. Outdoor daylight shots did, however, look pretty good and took enlargement really well. I apperently haven't matched up the White Balance and Brightness settings for very good indoor pics yet. Low light is just ok, despite my comment on the aperture.
{Mod edit: Link removed!}
@josuema
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...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't save photos. At least I can't see them anywhere in Photos. Did you do anything special to make it work?
Need to give it permissions through apps in settings. Mine works great. This makes this phone untouchable in camera performance. Night Sight works and takes amazing night shots. I believe at this point it is only rendering from 1 main camera but this is awesome for quick night shots and other stuff when you don't need the powerhouse camera setup. A+ to original poster. This needs sticky.
mahst68 said:
Need to give it permissions through apps in settings. Mine works great. This makes this phone untouchable in camera performance. Night Sight works and takes amazing night shots. I believe at this point it is only rendering from 1 main camera but this is awesome for quick night shots and other stuff when you don't need the powerhouse camera setup. A+ to original poster. This needs sticky.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's a GCam night Sight shot from a Clutch concert. Love it
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"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Thats great
does the front camera has portrait mode working?
and also does the front camera has HDR+ mode working?
thanks
What do you mean by "Gcam" ? Google camera? Google app tuner? I looked on Playstore and could not find the camera you mentioned
It's the ported version of the camera app from the google pixel phones.
If you follow the link in post one, you can download and install it.
You won't find it in the play store, since it's no official app.
Totally pointless for anything other than the selfie camera. It uses one of the two main colour sensors and none of the others for the rear.
Per the posted photo at the concert, it looks pretty awful.
mudnightoil said:
Totally pointless for anything other than the selfie camera. It uses one of the two main colour sensors and none of the others for the rear.
Per the posted photo at the concert, it looks pretty awful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haters be hating. :crying:
The point is that it can process night Sight like the pixel 3. Do you even own a Nokia 9? Why you gonna try to flame on people just trying to help out with the phone. Troll on...
mahst68 said:
Haters be hating. :crying:
The point is that it can process night Sight like the pixel 3. Do you even own a Nokia 9? Why you gonna try to flame on people just trying to help out with the phone. Troll on...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not helping at all, and no it can't - at least not on the evidence of your photo.
Even for a single (relatively low quality) 1/2.9" f1.8 sensor / lens, lacking OIS, the photo you posted would be a very bad result if GCAM hdr+ / night sight was working properly.
Comparing it with the Pixel 3 which has a comparatively larger, brighter, and generally more expensive OIS enabled sensor / lens, it isn't even worth talking about.
The 9 clearly has some problems in low light / night mode at the moment. It's not working, or not working as intended some of the time. Occasionally there are some outstanding results - far better than the Pixels are capable of. Mostly, the opposite, though. Hopefully these will be fixed. If they aren't, then GCam isn't a suitable band aid.
The chances of GCam ever being useful for the rear setup are virtually nil on the 9; only chance is if Google introduce a similar Light multi camera module and ASIC in the 4 line of Pixel devices, thereby potentially enabling ported GCam to make proper use of the 9's rear setup.
Nokia 9 PureView camera sample photos vs. Gcam vs. Pixel 3
https://www.jdhodges.com/blog/nokia-9-pureview-stock-vs-gcam-vs-pixel-3-sample-photos/
Jaripi said:
Nokia 9 PureView camera sample photos vs. Gcam vs. Pixel 3
https://www.jdhodges.com/blog/nokia-9-pureview-stock-vs-gcam-vs-pixel-3-sample-photos/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice work , for me the GCAM looks noisy . Seems it does not really work on the nokia ?
If gcam averages many images , even from a single lens, then to my feeling it should have less noise then it has here.
I might try to take a picture with an app that uses only 1 cam on the nokia (like open camera) and compare that with the gcam output.
bk227865 said:
Nice work , for me the GCAM looks noisy . Seems it does not really work on the nokia ?
If gcam averages many images , even from a single lens, then to my feeling it should have less noise then it has here.
I might try to take a picture with an app that uses only 1 cam on the nokia (like open camera) and compare that with the gcam output.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It works very well, even more details and looks more natural as Pixel 3. Of course, all is depending on what kind of photos (settings) you prefer. If you like painted photos, just add clarity, contrast, brightness and color, then it is a stunning photo. Well, it might not look natural any longer and it might lose some details too
Just compare yourself: https://www.jdhodges.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Nokia-9-PureView-Stock-vs-Gcam-vs-Pixel-3.png
Is any chance to make GCam works with front camera ? Anyone tried it successfully ?
Tried it last evening at home, not working as intended, pics are super noisy, looks like and raw dump straight to jpeg without any stacking or processing. Crap. On the other hand stock cam gives the usual super smoothed, no details, no light, ****ty pics.
Low light is a no go for this phone. In daylight, it delivers the best pics I have ever seen on a phone. I think I'll keep my small Pixel 2 in another pocket all the time with me when the light goes down....
Latoc said:
Tried it last evening at home, not working as intended, pics are super noisy, looks like and raw dump straight to jpeg without any stacking or processing. Crap. On the other hand stock cam gives the usual super smoothed, no details, no light, ****ty pics.
Low light is a no go for this phone. In daylight, it delivers the best pics I have ever seen on a phone. I think I'll keep my small Pixel 2 in another pocket all the time with me when the light goes down....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe some, for who it works well can post some settings, please ? I don't mean front camera only
Does anyone get the spinning circle from the HDR+ processing when jumping into the picture viewer right after hitting the shutter button ? Because I don't. I do on my Pixel2. And pretty much any phone where gcam works it's magic.
I don't think it's doing any processing, but maybe there is a special setting to toggle that I haven't, like Ringola said... ?!
Latoc said:
Does anyone get the spinning circle from the HDR+ processing when jumping into the picture viewer right after hitting the shutter button ? Because I don't. I do on my Pixel2. And pretty much any phone where gcam works it's magic.
I don't think it's doing any processing, but maybe there is a special setting to toggle that I haven't, like Ringola said... ?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
here are disscussion about settings and noise reduction . It's about Nokia 8,but I suppose something simlilar cauld be aplied here i think:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Nokia/comments/9023q4/google_camera_tuning_guide_for_nokia_8_2017/
Ringola said:
Maybe some, for who it works well can post some settings, please ? I don't mean front camera only
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ringola said:
here are disscussion about settings and noise reduction :
https://www.reddit.com/r/Nokia/comments/9023q4/google_camera_tuning_guide_for_nokia_8_2017/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing is, HDR+ isn't working at all, whatever settings I might apply won't work since the core feature of gcam isn't active.
I'm going to try other versions of gcam and see what goes on...
Thanks anyway for your input. I'll let everybody know of my findings, if any.
mahst68 said:
Need to give it permissions through apps in settings. Mine works great. This makes this phone untouchable in camera performance. Night Sight works and takes amazing night shots. I believe at this point it is only rendering from 1 main camera but this is awesome for quick night shots and other stuff when you don't need the powerhouse camera setup. A+ to original poster. This needs sticky.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my case it seems to work somehow (havent check everything ) until I press "more " and open app setting.Is Ones I do that, application begin to be so laggy, that it's totally useless. Have to be reinstalled.Anyone has similar expirience ?
Hi All
I've been reading around this for a while and can't quite decide what this sensor can do. I appreciate it's a Quad Bayer arrangement which is very effective for grouping pixels together which allows for good performance in low light and produces 12MP images.
I notice the spec sheet says "48 effective pixels" but I understand this means there are a few extra pixels round the edge used to discover brightness etc, or does effective mean not really?
This could be a dense question, but can this sensor produce true 48MP images? I notice the RAW output on the Mi9 is only 12MP so is probably 48MP pixel binned.
What I'm really looking for 48MP RAW. I'm guessing the output would be very soft and unsharp, but then I can do my own post processing to suit my taste.
Edit: The issues seems to be an incorrect implementation of Camera2 Api which reports max resolution of 3000x4000 for the 48MP camera. It's been reported below so if you'd like to see 48MP jpegs and RAW for 3rd party apps, please visit the link and confirm the issue in a post below.
http://en.miui.com/thread-6249265-1-1.html
Thanks for reading.....
Steve
picitup said:
Hi All
I've been reading around this for a while and can't quite decide what this sensor can do. I appreciate it's a Quad Bayer arrangement which is very effective for grouping pixels together which allows for good performance in low light and produces 12MP images.
I notice the spec sheet says "48 effective pixels" but I understand this means there are a few extra pixels round the edge used to discover brightness etc, or does effective mean not really?
This could be a dense question, but can this sensor produce true 48MP images? I notice the RAW output on the Mi9 is only 12MP so is probably 48MP pixel binned.
What I'm really looking for 48MP RAW. I'm guessing the output would be very soft and unsharp, but then I can do my own post processing to suit my taste.
Thanks for reading.....
Steve
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my mi9 hasnt arrived yet, but from what I read, it CAN output 48mp in an manual mode (not auto). Regarding RAW instead of Jpeg: i don't know if stock app can do it at 48mp, but gcam most probably will (at least when the port is finalized). But using 48mp will disable HDR because its somehow Chipset limited.
Hi Mine has arrived and can confirm the stock camera will take 48MP jpegs. Th RAW output is only 12MP.
But I wonder is it really 48MP? If the sensor is quad bayer, meaning that 4 green pixels are grouped together, then 4 red etc. how can you possibly get full res out of that arrangement?
It looks like this:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Cheers
Steve
Well I think I've answered my own question and it seems to be yes; it can output true 48MP images;
If you slip one pixel right and down, you can group pixels into a traditional RGGB Bayer arrangement. Now that's clever!
If you look at the attached image, I've drawn white boxes around each group of 4 pixels, ignoring the 1st row and column. You can see in each box, there is an RGGB combination, so it's job done!
My brain hurts.....
Steve
picitup said:
Well I think I've answered my own question and it seems to be yes; it can output true 48MP images;
If you slip one pixel right and down, you can group pixels into a traditional RGGB Bayer arrangement. Now that's clever!
If you look at the attached image, I've drawn white boxes around each group of 4 pixels, ignoring the 1st row and column. You can see in each box, there is an RGGB combination, so it's job done!
My brain hurts.....
Steve
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's like a Pentile Amoled so? It's not a real 48mp like a RGB Amoled would be.
Well I think it's similar as there are twice as many green pixels as red or blue (the same as all Bayer sensors), but I think you can get real 48MP out of it by slipping the matrix by 1 pixel as shown above.
Is that that what you were asking?
Cheers
Steve
Just a quick update on this.
The Camera2 API is Level 3, but the max photo resolutions of the front and rear cameras are misreported for 3rd party apps. Using Camera2 API Probe from here:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.airbeat.device.inspector
Shows that the rear camera is 4000x3000 (12MP) and should be 8000x6000 (48MP). The front camera is reported as 2592x1940 (5MP) and should be 5184x3880 (20MP).
The upshot of this is that 3rd party apps produce 12MP images from the rear camera and 5MP images from the front camera.
I've just unlocked my phone and installed xiaomi.eu rom 9.3.28 from here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/xi.../files/xiaomi.eu/MIUI-WEEKLY-RELEASES/9.3.28/
But no improvement, it's just the same.
I'll report this as a bug and report back. What I'm really looking for is 48MP RAW for 3rd parties.
Wish me luck....
Steve
picitup said:
Just a quick update on this.
The Camera2 API is Level 3, but the max photo resolutions of the front and rear cameras are misreported for 3rd party apps. Using Camera2 API Probe from here:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.airbeat.device.inspector
Shows that the rear camera is 4000x3000 (12MP) and should be 8000x6000 (48MP). The front camera is reported as 2592x1940 (5MP) and should be 5184x3880 (20MP).
The upshot of this is that 3rd party apps produce 12MP images from the rear camera and 5MP images from the front camera.
I've just unlocked my phone and installed xiaomi.eu rom 9.3.28 from here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/xi.../files/xiaomi.eu/MIUI-WEEKLY-RELEASES/9.3.28/
But no improvement, it's just the same.
I'll report this as a bug and report back. What I'm really looking for is 48MP RAW for 3rd parties.
Wish me luck....
Steve
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Sony sensor is not a real 48mp sensor. That's only marketing.
It's a 12mp sensor with real-time HDR
Gesendet von meinem MI 9 mit Tapatalk
Hi thanks for your reply. Do you have the data sheet for the sensor? I've scoured the Internet but only found a news release.
I'd really like to understand this if I can. So the 48MP photos in the stock cam are just upscaled 12MP?
Cheers
Steve
I've reported this as a bug to Xiaomi here:
http://en.miui.com/thread-6249265-1-1.html
So if you want 48MP for 3rd party apps, please verify it on the link above and maybe we can get it!
Cheers
Steve
Check datasheet, it's 48Mpix sensor, but won't produce 48Mpix images without array conversion.
Pretty nice article about it:
https://www.androidpit.com/48-mp-or-not-look-at-sony-new-camera-sensor
Hi
Thanks yes I did read that article, but think in my 4th post I explained how to get true 48MP from it. I'm at the limits of my knowledge here, so could be very wrong
The Sony news release says:
When shooting bright scenes such as daytime outdoors, the built-in, original signal processing function performs array conversion, making it possible to obtain high-definition 48 effective megapixel images in real time
https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201807/18-060E/index.html
what do you think?
This article:
https://www.quora.com/Why-aren-t-all-48MP-sensors-born-equal
Compares the IMX586 and the Samsung GM1, both 48MP sensors. It says the difference is that the IMX586 has integrated array conversion and can produce true 48MP images, whereas the GM1 does not and can offer only 12MP pixel binned images.
When shooting bright scenes, such as an outdoor environment during daytime, the built-in, original signal processing function performs array conversion (see diagram below), making it possible to obtain high-definition 48 effective megapixel images in real time. Thus, the Sony IMX586 can produce true 48MP photos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds promising....
I can only imagine how amazing photos it will be possible to output with Lightroom using 48mpx raws. From what I can read here, it really sounds it will be possible to achieve as hardware-wise everything on paper says it is producing real 48mpx. I just wonder if it's possible to "unlock" this with gcam. Probably I can feel that root will be needed ...
brainscollector said:
I can only imagine how amazing photos it will be possible to output with Lightroom using 48mpx raws. From what I can read here, it really sounds it will be possible to achieve as hardware-wise everything on paper says it is producing real 48mpx. I just wonder if it's possible to "unlock" this with gcam. Probably I can feel that root will be needed ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I think the potential is there. I've reported it as a bug to Xiaomi higher up, so please click the link and comment and maybe Xiaomi will fix it!
picitup said:
Yes I think the potential is there. I've reported it as a bug to Xiaomi higher up, so please click the link and comment and maybe Xiaomi will fix it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What we need from xiaomi is RAW 48 mp, higher bitrate of the mic, maybe a few other little things and we have the perfect phone. How can we SPAM xioami to do that ?!!
Well 48MP RAW is reported, if you follow the link I reported above, you enter your own bug and hopefully they will fix it. I'm new to Xiaomi so I don't know how much notice they take of bug reports, but they say the more users that confirm the bug, the more likely they will fix it.
Just a quick bump.
If you want to see 48MP RAW on the Mi9, please follow the link on the first post and confirm the issue then hopefully Xiaomi will take note.
Cheers
Please ignore the link on the first post as it keeps getting changed. Here's the link:
http://en.miui.com/thread-6249265-1-1.html
Cheers
picitup said:
Please ignore the link on the first post as it keeps getting changed. Here's the link:
http://en.miui.com/thread-6249265-1-1.html
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your screenshoot shows 8000*6000 on the last row for photo size, so not a good proof.
FYI, just noticed the release of the Expert Raw app by Samsung, supporting all lenses for the S21 Ultra. Editing can be done through Adobe Lighthouse for Samsung.
The app is release in South Korea, but als available through mirror sites.
More info here
thanks.
Manual controls over the telephoto lenses are awesome. However sadly "RAW" here is used loosely since there's built in noise reduction that cannot be adjusted.
Top is "Expert RAW" DNG to JPG with just adjusting brightness. No noise reduction is applied and yet there is very little detail. Bottom picture is just stock camera night mode. More noise, but also more detail.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
I'm testing Expert RAW now and mus confirm, noise reduction exist even on DNG file. You suggest to use other app?
I'll test it tonight
Right after downgrading to 11 I saw this post. Back to 12... Again and, yes, it's True. This is NOT pure RAW. I posted 3 photos down here so you can see what's going on. I apologize in advance for this long post but I wanted to show the actual view on the user's screen.
1st: Expert raw actually takes a RAW photo (notice the high chroma noise) but immediately processes it, to reduce the noise as seen with the yellow progress circle in the lower part of the screen.
2nd: after processing, the photo looks like this
3rd: after opening the photo in Photoshop Express, it looks like this:
To the untrained eye, this looks like such a great, clean image. But this is clearly, not RAW and it is not what users asked for.
Honestly, Samsung is frustrating. They give you the feeling that they are listening to their customers. We ask them for oranges and they give us watermellons. My theory is that they absolutely know they have mediocre sensors in their flagships and do not want to risk their image by letting you see the RAW capability of their camera.
Randi03 said:
To the untrained eye, this looks like such a great, clean image. But this is clearly, not RAW and it is not what users asked for.
Honestly, Samsung is frustrating. They give you the feeling that they are listening to their customers. We ask them for oranges and they give us watermellons. My theory is that they absolutely know they have mediocre sensors in their flagships and do not want to risk their image by letting you see the RAW capability of their camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sad but True. Higher ISO level = more agressive processing.
This example with some lightroom touches from x10 tele captured on ISO 50 but on tripod gimbal with 1/15s time.
Glad that they gave us full control at all, that's the most important thing, but they also had to give something back.
More examples with little lightroom postpro. All lenses and this time all captured from hand. Expert RAW creates multiple ammount of photos to some kind of HDR RAW. Anyway theare are much better than photos from standard camera app. Less processing but still exist.
Randi03 said:
Right after downgrading to 11 I saw this post. Back to 12... Again and, yes, it's True. This is NOT pure RAW. I posted 3 photos down here so you can see what's going on. I apologize in advance for this long post but I wanted to show the actual view on the user's screen.
1st: Expert raw actually takes a RAW photo (notice the high chroma noise) but immediately processes it, to reduce the noise as seen with the yellow progress circle in the lower part of the screen. View attachment 54668372nd: after processing, the photo looks like this
View attachment 5466841
3rd: after opening the photo in Photoshop Express, it looks like this:
View attachment 5466843
To the untrained eye, this looks like such a great, clean image. But this is clearly, not RAW and it is not what users asked for.
Honestly, Samsung is frustrating. They give you the feeling that they are listening to their customers. We ask them for oranges and they give us watermellons. My theory is that they absolutely know they have mediocre sensors in their flagships and do not want to risk their image by letting you see the RAW capability of their camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol that's the thing though, the sensors aren't mediocre. Having a Snapdragon with access to telephoto RAW for a while now, I can definitely say that they're pretty good albeit a little soft and lack contrast. I think it's that Samsung's algorithm is still problematic and they are still catering to the common user who they think is scared of any signs of noise.
Here's a zoomed in picture of a 10x GCam RAW zoomed in with Photoshop Express without noise reduction
And here's the Expert RAW version
Wow, the Gcam looks very nice. That's exactly what I hope to get out of the Exynos someday )
Expert raw seems to be the answer to apple's proraw or I can't remember the exact name. Basically it's 6 raw shots stacked together to help reduce the amount of noise and increase dynamic range over a single raw since these phones are usually meant to have lots of internal post precessing after the raw shot to look good. I was pretty excited when I read apple had come up with it. Turned out to be disappointing. Looks like Samsung's answer isn't better either.
It shows the difficulty of processing and stacking multiple images. I'll stick to my gcam with snap dragon as I'm super happy with it. 10x is by far my favorite lens to take portraits, never use the fake portrait mode, even in 3x it can't beat gcam 10x. Google processing is just that good. If pixel 6 pro had a 10x periscope I was probably switching phones... Will have to wait some more
PhilMorin said:
Expert raw seems to be the answer to apple's proraw or I can't remember the exact name. Basically it's 6 raw shots stacked together to help reduce the amount of noise and increase dynamic range over a single raw since these phones are usually meant to have lots of internal post precessing after the raw shot to look good. I was pretty excited when I read apple had come up with it. Turned out to be disappointing. Looks like Samsung's answer isn't better either.
It shows the difficulty of processing and stacking multiple images. I'll stick to my gcam with snap dragon as I'm super happy with it. 10x is by far my favorite lens to take portraits, never use the fake portrait mode, even in 3x it can't beat gcam 10x. Google processing is just that good. If pixel 6 pro had a 10x periscope I was probably switching phones... Will have to wait some more
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what GCAM mod are you using btw?
yoyosquad said:
what GCAM mod are you using btw?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Arnova, one of the first version that was released. I've been really happy with it so haven't bothered updating to one of the latest version that beserker has posted.
PhilMorin said:
Arnova, one of the first version that was released. I've been really happy with it so haven't bothered updating to one of the latest version that beserker has posted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if that's not a problem, can you write us exact version of this release?
ski.ign said:
if that's not a problem, can you write us exact version of this release?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gcam build number is 8.1.101, might still be available from the links in beserker gcam for snapdragon thread
test
How can I install it? It's a zip file
Hello, i have question - how LOSELESS JPEG function works? Can You share some photos without editing it in external editors like lightroom? I'm interested how jpg from expert camera looks like.
I don't see any different between this camera end the stock camera
Hi, I am not sure what you mean by lossless jpeg. I couldn't find a setting for this. Here you can find 6 JPEG photos. 3 with stock, 3 with expert. All settings (ISO, Exposure, Focus distance, White balance) should be exactly the same as I have manually selected them while keeping the phone on a tripod. Auto HDR was disabled too. https://we.tl/t-WSBZjBGaNB
Also, I am on the Exynos variant.
hello i'm nosidam although you can refer to me as nosi or idam for short, at any rate it has come to my attention that for over two year's individuals much like myself that are into high resolution photography have been wanting access to the raw resolution of the hundred and eight megapixel (108mp) sensor and countless have tried but unfortunately to the best of my knowledge to no avail, for the past few months i've been working on just that and recently completed the project. the hundred and eight megapixel (108mp) sensor with raw resolution has been unlocked the only dilemma now is making it possible for other's to do it, my method required a very custom language and architecture emulation in order to make it possible and unfortunately the very language and architecture as you could surmise from the necessity for emulation was derived from custom harware and wasn't designed to be utilized in conjunction or substitution for commercial applications or software, additionally unfortunately the language is behind a wall of confidentiality obligation due to what it's used in and for so as you can imagine that means i can't simply distribute it openly although i am working on another project to make it possible utilizing commercially accessible and viable software that can be distributed so that it'll be available for disclosure although until then despite not being able to currently share something distributable i can actually show you the results and comparisons and results of my tests as well as give you some interesting statistics lol.
project C.I.A.R.A. - Google Drive
drive.google.com
that should be a link to a google drive folder that has various comparison photos, i've never posted on here before so i don't know if the attached image's will be fully viewable in their respective resolution or if they'll be compressed or not as of such you should be able to download and view the images without any compression from google drive also i tried drop box but it's uploading was spotty and slow despite having fiber gigabit internet and they only offered two gigabytes, so google drive being much faster and consistent without random pauses for uploading in addition to boasting a free ten gigabytes was a clear winner lol,
the phone's default hundred and eight megapixel (108mp) sensor photo is the file labeled:
"20230516_175804"
it's resolution is twelve thousand by nine thousand (12,000x9,000) with a standard dynamic range and is a jpeg file that has been compressed down from what should have been an absolute minimum of a hundred and eight megabytes (108mb) down to just thirty one point seventy six megabytes (31.76mb) which is a minimum compression in file size of seventy point fifty nine percent (70.59%) so as you can imagine it becomes something similar and or closer to being akin to that of a hot mess so to speak, you'll usually see over sharpening occasionally to help accommodate for a lack of quality to give "perceived quality" and seemingly a lack of dynamic range(potentially from the compression or justcthe onboard post processing) as well as artifacting... which personally i do understand why they would do such a thing, people would run out of memory substantially faster if each photo was over a hundred megabytes minimum but honestly if i'm spending one point four thousand dollars on a phone then i'd like access to everything the camera has to offer therefore even if it's hidden behind advanced settings i think we should at least have the choice, although unfortunately even the twenty one ultra with all of it's very state of the art power and processing especially at release still struggles to handle that amount of information and memory so i have to wait between photo's because the phone gets very hot and also starts to stutter or freeze a bit, utilizing the full potential of the sensor is slightly unstable but still possible and i think they should allow it could to be enabled with a disclosure that it's a potentially unstable and experimental setting but instead it's full potential has remained behind close doors so to speak (os lockdown and software lockouts) well i'm working on making the raw one hundred and eight megapixel(108mp) sensors raw potential commercially available i'm also working on a professional mode in my own functional language which will allow much more fine precision control.
now for the moment of truth, the file named:
"20230516_175938"
is twelve thousand by nine thousand (12,000x9,000) in resolution and has a file size of one hundred and sixty nine point fifty four megabytes(169.54mb) with a seemingly high dynamic range(either that or the standard dynamic range has been impacted by the onboard post processing and compression) so just by the file size differential i'm quite certain that you can ascertain that it's actually going to retain all of it's quality lol it's fifty six point ninty eight percent(56.98%) higher in file size than the bare minimum hundred and eight megabytes(108mb) standard, overall it's file size in comparison to the phone's default version is five hundred and thirty three point eighty two percent(533.82%) higher meaning that the phone's image is only eighteen point seventy three percent(18.73%) the size of the raw file quality one, which is a mind-numbingly substantial difference lol and personally i will always take higher quality and larger file sizes over low quality smaller file sizes, i haven't gotten an s23 ultra yet but if i do you can be sure that i'll endeavor to unlock it's two hundred megapixel(200mp) sensors potential, it's my opinion that if these sensors exist in our phones then we should be allowed to fully utilize they're capabilities and potential lol.
i created some very easy comparison crop out photos from each image that have been cropped(not resized) to the standard 1440x3200(WQHD+) resolution of these screens, the first screen shot is a WQHD+ comparison cropped from the default one hundred and eight megapixel(108mp) photo and is named:
"IMG_20230520_133504"
and is very clearly compressed by the aforementioned percentage whereas the WQHD+ comparison taken from the raw quality version is named:
"20230516_221938"
and is very clearly not compressed and retains all of it's raw quality potential.
on a sidenote i'd like to extend special thanks to M0nK_101 for suggesting a variety of sharing services such as drop box and google drive at my request to share the comparisons lol.
^.^
if you have any questions or concerns feel free to let me know.
with that said i'd like to thank you for potentially taking the time and patience to read this i appreciate it.
^_^
So like any update? Will it work on other devices using samsung sensor?
like Redmi 10 pro using hm2
Inzamam567 said:
So like any update? Will it work on other devices using samsung sensor?
like Redmi 10 pro using hm2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
affirmative unfortunately thus far i have not yet found an unofficially distributed commercially accessible means to unluck the 108mp sensors raw quality potential outside of my project C.I.A.R.A emulation although rest assured i'm still currently working on it also i'll elaborate compatability details when a publicly distributable prototype is viable lol.
^_^
Is this just an app or an entire OS?
neither it behaves in certain ways like an application although ultimately it's custom hardware software emulation that allows the internal onboard sensor algorithms responsible for compression and file formatting to be sidestepped so to speak.
^_^
I see, very interesting! So I would Hage to hook the camera module up to another board in access it from there? Or will it be possible to use the phone itself?
indeed and negative you could utilize the phone itself.
^_^