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Guys, I need advice please.
Right now in Russia I can buy an ATT SGSII for $500, and it does not have warranty, or I can buy a Note for $750 with 1 year warranty. I can inspect both phones before buying.
So, in you opinion, which is a better buy? Is the $250 difference worth to get the Note?
Thanks
pulsarvp said:
Guys, I need advice please.
Right now in Russia I can buy an ATT SGSII for $500, and it does not have warranty, or I can buy a Note for $750 with 1 year warranty. I can inspect both phones before buying.
So, in you opinion, which is a better buy? Is the $250 difference worth to get the Note?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As you are in the Note section people will off course say to take the Note. I have had both and they`re both good. The big screen is really a pleasure to use while browsing, gaming and watching youtube. The S2 is smaller and easier to put in your pocket, is a bit snappier at the moment but it has had more updates than the note.
It`s hard to choose but i would go with the note, it`s getting faster and faster with every update. And the note has about 3 times the pixels the S2 has!
If you haven't had a 5" screen, hard to make a determination, but I had a Dell
Streak...hard to go back after you have a big screen.
The other thing to consider, I don't know your age, but the older you get, the better you will appreciate the LARGER screen
i've had both... Note is a better phone solely for the browsing experience
p51d007 said:
If you haven't had a 5" screen, hard to make a determination, but I had a Dell
Streak...hard to go back after you have a big screen.
The other thing to consider, I don't know your age, but the older you get, the better you will appreciate the LARGER screen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My eyes are good, my arms are to short
gee2012 said:
As you are in the Note section people will off course say to take the Note. I have had both and they`re both good. The big screen is really a pleasure to use while browsing, gaming and watching youtube. The S2 is smaller and easier to put in your pocket, is a bit snappier at the moment but it has had more updates than the note.
It`s hard to choose but i would go with the note, it`s getting faster and faster with every update. And the note has about 3 times the pixels the S2 has!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
F*** AT&T!!! Regardless of whether you ultimately get a Note or an SGS2, never, never, never, (!!!)NEVER(!!!) buy a carrier subsidized device for ANY reason whatsoever!
Here's why:
[ANGRY RANT]
Ok, yes, the unlocked device will cost more up front. HOWEVER, provided you take very good care of your device, chances are, you can probably sell that device for ~$200 less than what you paid for it in about a year anyway. Seems awfully close to what you might have spent on a carrier subsidized device right?
The other thing is that you will never have to deal with carrier limitations or bloat. The AT&T version of the SGS2 will be tightly locked down and monitored. The IMEI will be in their database. AT&T has admitted to putting Carrier IQ on their devices (if you don't know what that is, I suggest you find out!), so they can basically see everything you're doing on the device right down to key presses!
If you buy an unlocked device, it's yours; you can do whatever you want to with it, and whatever the device is capable of; nothing locked down on the device by the carrier. Also, you won't have to deal with pre-installed carrier apps that you'll never use because you don't want them, because they're crap anyway, and you can't (easily) remove. Yeah you won't be dealing with any of that with an unlocked device either.
Oh yeah, and what about software updates? Carrier subsidized devices run slightly different hardware, so basically they're in a niche market; they're in their own little bubble of the world, subject to the whims of the carrier. So, while everyone else around the world (or those that bought unlocked devices) are enjoying their lovely Ice Cream Sandwiches starting in Q1 2012 (according to Samsung), you'll be stuck with the same old stale moldy Gingerbread from 2011, until MAYBE sometime towards the end of the summer of 2012, you'll get some hateful, melted, neutered, bloated, hacked up custom build of ICS designed more to meet the requirements of AT&T than to be a pleasant user experience for you...
Do you really want that? I sure as hell don't...
Basically, we consumers in America need to change this paradigm of seeing the carrier as a retail outlet. By allowing ourselves to be herded like cattle and sheep into carrier "outlets," we are locking ourselves in, and relinquishing our consumer freedom of choice, and thus inhibiting competition and innovation. More and more we see adverts for carriers (and the devices associated with those carriers), and less and less do we see advertisements from the manufacturers themselves, with no carrier affiliation whatsoever. This is sad... This is sad because the fierce competition and innovation that would otherwise draw us to one brand or another, is being lost to indirect association of a carrier instead.
Let retailers focus on selling us the devices we want, and let the carriers focus on providing us with the service we demand. No more of this "mixing church and state" if you will; that **** has GOT TO GO!!
[/ANGRY RANT]
Buy unlocked. It's just better, period.
You'll thank yourself (and me! ) for it later.
You're welcome!
Jade Eyed Wolf said:
F*** AT&T!!! Regardless of whether you ultimately get a Note or an SGS2, never, never, never, (!!!)NEVER(!!!) buy a carrier subsidized device for ANY reason whatsoever!
Here's why:
[ANGRY RANT]
Ok, yes, the unlocked device will cost more up front. HOWEVER, provided you take very good care of your device, chances are, you can probably sell that device for ~$200 less than what you paid for it in about a year anyway. Seems awfully close to what you might have spent on a carrier subsidized device right?
The other thing is that you will never have to deal with carrier limitations or bloat. The AT&T version of the SGS2 will be tightly locked down and monitored. The IMEI will be in their database. AT&T has admitted to putting Carrier IQ on their devices (if you don't know what that is, I suggest you find out!), so they can basically see everything you're doing on the device right down to key presses!
If you buy an unlocked device, it's yours; you can do whatever you want to with it, and whatever the device is capable of; nothing locked down on the device by the carrier. Also, you won't have to deal with pre-installed carrier apps that you'll never use because you don't want them, because they're crap anyway, and you can't (easily) remove. Yeah you won't be dealing with any of that with an unlocked device either.
Oh yeah, and what about software updates? Carrier subsidized devices run slightly different hardware, so basically they're in a niche market; they're in their own little bubble of the world, subject to the whims of the carrier. So, while everyone else around the world (or those that bought unlocked devices) are enjoying their lovely Ice Cream Sandwiches starting in Q1 2012 (according to Samsung), you'll be stuck with the same old stale moldy Gingerbread from 2011, until MAYBE sometime towards the end of the summer of 2012, you'll get some hateful, melted, neutered, bloated, hacked up custom build of ICS designed more to meet the requirements of AT&T than to be a pleasant user experience for you...
Do you really want that? I sure as hell don't...
Basically, we consumers in America need to change this paradigm of seeing the carrier as a retail outlet. By allowing ourselves to be herded like cattle and sheep into carrier "outlets," we are locking ourselves in, and relinquishing our consumer freedom of choice, and thus inhibiting competition and innovation. More and more we see adverts for carriers (and the devices associated with those carriers), and less and less do we see advertisements from the manufacturers themselves, with no carrier affiliation whatsoever. This is sad... This is sad because the fierce competition and innovation that would otherwise draw us to one brand or another, is being lost to indirect association of a carrier instead.
Let retailers focus on selling us the devices we want, and let the carriers focus on providing us with the service we demand. No more of this "mixing church and state" if you will; that **** has GOT TO GO!!
[/ANGRY RANT]
Buy unlocked. It's just better, period.
You'll thank yourself (and me! ) for it later.
You're welcome!
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Click to collapse
I`am not on AT&T off course but i would never buy a carrier phone. Most sold phones in Holland are simlockfree (unlocked), even the carrrier phones! Carriers should take care and improve their network, not mess with phones that are payed for by their customers.
gee2012 said:
As you are in the Note section people will off course say to take the Note. I have had both and they`re both good. The big screen is really a pleasure to use while browsing, gaming and watching youtube. The S2 is smaller and easier to put in your pocket, is a bit snappier at the moment but it has had more updates than the note.
It`s hard to choose but i would go with the note, it`s getting faster and faster with every update. And the note has about 3 times the pixels the S2 has!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, I forgot to understand that iam posting in the Note zone
Thanks for so many replies.
There are also rumors that a new SGS will be announced in February, and the Note is much newer. And sim locked devices are not an option for me.
Any mOre opinions? Thanks.
I got my Note today, and before my Note I was using the SGS2 for about 7 months. Fantastic phone (the SGS2) and much MUCH more pocketable.
If you don't mind the larger phone, you're going to be getting something very similar in specs (internally). the Note has a faster CPU, but seems a tiny bit slower due to all the pixels. Also, I've had 7 months of updates, which is different than the 1 day I've had mine and I had 2 updates to install! Regardless, I like the Note It's a keeper The screen is just GORGEOUS.
You will miss out if you don't get the Note, its every ways better than the SII.
This thread should persuade you: forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1406255
I think OP wants to know if it's worth spending the extra $250 on the Note. The answer lies on how you use your phone. Most Note owners use their device mostly for browsing and watching movies and for that, nothing beats the Note and definitely worth the $250 upgrade. Games are also great.
I got mine getting an Iphone 4s through a carrier ($199) then unlocking and selling on ebay for $500 more to finance my Note. I dont mind the contract since i cant lose my unlimited data plan anyway.
--- --- --- ---
A damn proud Galaxy Note owner.
pulsarvp said:
Guys, I need advice please.
Right now in Russia I can buy an ATT SGSII for $500, and it does not have warranty, or I can buy a Note for $750 with 1 year warranty. I can inspect both phones before buying.
So, in you opinion, which is a better buy? Is the $250 difference worth to get the Note?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
$250
Will get you:
1 year warranty
Bigger screen
Better battery
Cool factor (results may vary)
Responsive stylus capability
Among a lot of other points
Now don't get me wrong, the sg2 is a beautiful phone, but after I bought myself a note, I can't look at my sg2 without thinking what a little toy it is compared to this beast.
Im in Russia too and I just got the Note for 750$ a few days back. Are you in Moscow to be exact?
Just an update, I got a Motorola Razr for $600, and I am happy with it.
I wanted the Note badly, but a friend with the Note (he just got it) looks very funny, especially during business meetings, where some old guys stare at the him as if his hair are pink.
Btw, The Razr also has dark marks under the screen, visible in a dark room.
Am I the only one here thinking that it was part of google's plan to make it look like they sold a bunch of N4s in order to get the media's attention by bragging about how many they sold? Just Google: "nexus 4 sold out". You will find many websites reporting that nexus 4 are selling like hot cakes/or are sold out. I'm going to have to look at the next news paper, I bet we will see it in the headlines. This is wonderful news for Google. Great advertisement.
More over I would like to know what you guys think of this. Don't you think that such a rich company like Google would have for seen this?
Also the fact that the number of sold devices are not being reported, wouldn't that indicate that the amount of devices are actually not that much after all? (mentioning the # of sold units would discredit their bragging right? - Of course, only if it is not high)
Chances are they have a lot on stock but want to sell only a certain amount for the time being.
Now what would concern me is, if it actually is the truth that they ran out of supply. I mean, LG? There are few people who have faith in LG, their android update policy is enough to associate that company with incompetence.
Even with the nexus phone being an LG, they already managed to leave a bad impression in countries with no play store by announcing a price which could be nearly up to double the price of the nexus 4 in the play store.
What if LG is not able to keep up with demand? What is your say? What do you think is going on?
I visited a site that mentioned that Google has done this before, in order to see how high the demand is and to fulfill the needs a few days/weeks/month later. Was not following the galaxy nexus sale , anyone that experienced this here?
Hope this thread doesn't get closed, I could imagine some interesting discussion going on
no, just scumbags trying to make a profit by hogging all the stock
AznDud333 said:
no, just scumbags trying to make a profit by hogging all the stock
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I think it its engineered, why not Apple do it all the time
Naw, I mean, there really weren't any commercials over it or anything. Google has the money to spend on advertising for it, but they honestly didn't. I feel they just weren't too sure on when to do it themselves and that we were probably making more out of it than needed to be.
dahmmy said:
I think it its engineered, why not Apple do it all the time
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Click to collapse
google's site never lags
it lagged today.
It's a big global conspiracy to ruin your day. Mission accomplished.
If this was Apple then, yes, I would believe it was intentional but honestly the server was crashing. What I saw you can't fake. It was like a DDoS attack. That server was basically brought to its knees. SERIOUSLY.
Sent from my Nexus 7
Ravynmagi said:
It's a big global conspiracy to ruin your day. Mission accomplished.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Illuminati. Yes! They are watching us!
@above: hmmm. I prefer Lg is incompetent
I think it may be a combination of Google's lack of concern about their customers combined with a poor working relationship with LG. I don't think Google wants publicity about this launch because they and LG won't come off looking too good. Google must have thought it was getting more units from LG because they had indicated they would sell the Nexus 4 via Playstore in the Netherlands and Belgium. Then at the last minute, they had to cancel those commitments because they didn't get enough units from LG. At the same time, non-US carriers selling the phone at a much higher price than Google got units ahead of launch time so their customers could physically have the phone today. Hence, you have a number of users posting threads here about problems with their brand new Nexus 4 phones, which they have in hand. So, LG shorted Google to send phones to vendors that sell the Nexus 4 at a higher price. I suspect the whole sales cycle of this phone may be marked by problems between Google and LG, resulting in supply shortages for the lower priced Google-sold phones. If consumers want the phone and don't want to wait for weeks at a time between LG's periodic shipment of a meager supply to Google, you may be forced to buy from other vendors at a higher price or, in the US, a contract commitment to T-Mobile. It looks like Google + LG= oil + water; they don't mix well.
mke1973 said:
I think it may be a combination of Google's lack of concern about their customers combined with a poor working relationship with LG. I don't think Google wants publicity about this launch because they and LG won't come off looking too good. Google must have thought it was getting more units from LG because they had indicated they would sell the Nexus 4 via Playstore in the Netherlands and Belgium. Then at the last minute, they had to cancel those commitments because they didn't get enough units from LG. At the same time, non-US carriers selling the phone at a much higher price than Google got units ahead of launch time so their customers could physically have the phone today. Hence, you have a number of users posting threads here about problems with their brand new Nexus 4 phones, which they have in hand. So, LG shorted Google to send phones to vendors that sell the Nexus 4 at a higher price. I suspect the whole sales cycle of this phone may be marked by problems between Google and LG, resulting in supply shortages for the lower priced Google-sold phones. If consumers want the phone and don't want to wait for weeks at a time between LG's periodic shipment of a meager supply to Google, you may be forced to buy from other vendors at a higher price or, in the US, a contract commitment to T-Mobile. It looks like Google + LG= oil + water; they don't mix well.
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Click to collapse
.... Or maybe not. That's quite the stretch.
shadehh said:
Also the fact that the number of sold devices are not being reported, wouldn't that indicate that the amount of devices are actually not that much after all? (mentioning the # of sold units would discredit their bragging right? - Of course, only if it is not high)
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Click to collapse
It is Google's policy not to release sales figures. So it indicates absolutely nothing. Asus released some Nexus 7 sales figures last month and apparently Google was not too happy.
This is what happens when things are under-priced. Whether mandated by law (price controls) or whether a company does it out of its own desire (Nexus 4). Selling something below its true value will lead to shortages because the demand will be too heavy. Combine that with Google probably trying to not overestimate the demand in order to not build too many, it should be no surprise that it sold out so quickly.
FallN said:
If this was Apple then, yes, I would believe it was intentional but honestly the server was crashing. What I saw you can't fake. It was like a DDoS attack. That server was basically brought to its knees. SERIOUSLY.
Sent from my Nexus 7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very true... i had an N4 in my cart 8 times today (EIGHT freakin times) and each and every time i tried to proceed, i got that craptastic yellow banner telling me that something happened on the back end. their servers were absolutely hammered.
PincheKeith said:
This is what happens when things are under-priced. Whether mandated by law (price controls) or whether a company does it out of its own desire (Nexus 4). Selling something below its true value will lead to shortages because the demand will be too heavy. Combine that with Google probably trying to not overestimate the demand in order to not build too many, it should be no surprise that it sold out so quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm happy with the low price and even if I have to wait a year to get a nexus 4 I'm so happy Google set new standards. I don't find the price too cheap, they could have easily added 50 bucks more for all I care. But I'm glad they set new standards for great hardware all others phone manufacturers must now adjust
I waited all day, from 3:00 AM EST when it was SUPPOSED to launch, to 12:00 PM EST when the "second" launch time was "announced", resulting in two times in which the "Add to Cart" button popped up but didn't work after clicking through. The minute I step inside my house, I rush to my computer, and see a nice, red SOLD OUT sign.
It had to be either a) testing the waters in terms of demand for the device (highly unlikely), b) a publicity stunt in order to garner more (free) attention for the Nexus4 (as we say it, any publicity is good publicity), or c) as stated a shortage of devices as a result between miscommunication/communication breakdowns between LG and Google.
Thoroughly disappointed. I sold my phone (GNexus) in the hopes of upgrading for very little $, and now I'm stuck with no phone at all.
oceansaber said:
I waited all day, from 3:00 AM EST when it was SUPPOSED to launch, to 12:00 PM EST when the "second" launch time was "announced", resulting in two times in which the "Add to Cart" button popped up but didn't work after clicking through. The minute I step inside my house, I rush to my computer, and see a nice, red SOLD OUT sign.
It had to be either a) testing the waters in terms of demand for the device (highly unlikely), b) a publicity stunt in order to garner more (free) attention for the Nexus4 (as we say it, any publicity is good publicity), or c) as stated a shortage of devices as a result between miscommunication/communication breakdowns between LG and Google.
Thoroughly disappointed. I sold my phone (GNexus) in the hopes of upgrading for very little $, and now I'm stuck with no phone at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man, i feel you. i sold my gnex and my backup (g2x) device in anticipation of the nexus 4. I'm old and tired. So, i'm just going to go to my tmobile store and pick up a note 2. I got one for my wife last week and she has been completely satisfied with it. I'll re-evaluate the state of android in a couple months, whereby I might sell the note 2 to finally get the nexus 4. we'll see.
If you believe that its all a conspiracy, put your aluminum foil hat back on and go sit in the corner.
PincheKeith said:
This is what happens when things are under-priced. Whether mandated by law (price controls) or whether a company does it out of its own desire (Nexus 4). Selling something below its true value will lead to shortages because the demand will be too heavy. Combine that with Google probably trying to not overestimate the demand in order to not build too many, it should be no surprise that it sold out so quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally someone who understand economics.
Put gas half price today. Guess what will happen. Even if gas stations prepared. EVERYONE will gas and you can't prepare for that. Supply is driven by how valuable it is to sell. Demand is determined by how much value you get. They released a 600$ phone at 300$. Take off your tinfoil hats and go to school.
There is no conspiracy. We are talking about about a relatively small cell phone player in LG and a device with a small profit margin. Considering that both these companies are banking on the same profit model, ie, google wants large volume sales for ads and LG wants large volume to compensate for smaller net profits per phone. With the next big phone literally always around the corner, to delay sales in any way is very bad for both companies.
shadehh said:
I don't find the price too cheap, they could have easily added 50 bucks more for all I care.
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Click to collapse
Then it is too cheap If people are willing to pay $400 or $450, and they sell it for $350, that's too cheap. That's why demand is (and should be!) so high.
I don't think they did this intentionally, they have a great device at a great price and it sold out.
Why do we have to endure weeks of waiting for the release of a new Samsung device when it has been announced? All those people at the unpacked event waving the Note 4 and Edge around on stage or within the experience stands make me jealous but also make me angry.
I never see why the phones/devices cannot be on the shelves within a week of an announcement for contract free purchases. I understand there might be negotiations with carriers but why stop those with the cash in their hands?
I also would love to know who decides on which country gets a certain device and when.
Samsung is particularly bad at this. They drag their heels with pricing, release dates and availability. Surely this can be all in place prior to their events.
It's not wrong, you're right!
Apple does very well
I know. How long does it take to mole the circuit board, etc?
Its potential for cash cow. People say Oct 5th for T-mobile. Thats 4 weeks too long.
This is one thing Apple actually does very well. Release date generally follows announcement by less than 2 weeks. Pre-orders start just a few days after the announcement.
It is very annoying. I wish they'd just wait to announce until they're closer to release. Who cares if it leaks during production? Samsung isn't as bad as LG tho, they are terrible.
This article is another reason why the wait is irritating. http://www.gsmarena.com/nvidia_files_a_patent_lawsuit_against_samsung_and_qualcomm-news-9564.php
Samsung is terrible at this. Apple has almost always released within earshot knowing the hypetrain is still there. By the time Note 4 arrives iPhone6 will be on shelves. Noone outside the geekworld is hyped about a Note 4. Even casuals know a new and bigger iPhone are coming. After the S5 dissaponting sales you'd think Samsung would pull out all stops.
Shame, they could be taking advantage of the earlier announcement over apple but they're going to just let apple rake in the earlier pre orders.
for one, it's pretty obvious they need time to produce hundreds of thousands of them first., on top of that, each carrier needs time to receive the units and to do their own testing and get samsung to load things on to them, firmware,modems,etc..
surely if they were available right after announced that would mean the device was already in productions many weeks prior and shipped/stocked at all retailers before hand.. this wouldn't make sense..
this is just standard on all electronic and if you ever bought any other piece of electronic in the past, you would have known this is normal practice to announce and then begin shipping out to retailers.
zergslayer69 said:
Shame, they could be taking advantage of the earlier announcement over apple but they're going to just let apple rake in the earlier pre orders.
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Click to collapse
preorders are already open on the sprint website and have been for a couple days http://www.sprint.com/landings/samsung_note4/index.html?ECID=vanity:galaxynote4
blame the carrier if yours isn't available for preorder yet.
tft said:
for one, it's pretty obvious they need time to produce hundreds of thousands of them first., on top of that, each carrier needs time to receive the units and to do their own testing and get samsung to load things on to them, firmware,modems,etc..
surely if they were available right after announced that would mean the device was already in productions many weeks prior and shipped/stocked at all retailers before hand.. this wouldn't make sense..
this is just standard on all electronic and if you ever bought any other piece of electronic in the past, you would have known this is normal practice to announce and then begin shipping out to retailers.
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Click to collapse
Well I already stated that I understood why there was a delay for carrier testing but I am talking about those who wish to buy outright. And if Apple and HTC can get their stock out shortly after announcements then why can't Samsung? Saying this is normal practice does not make it acceptable.
The devices shown at the launch were not prototypes, the production process has already begun and could have been stepped up prior to the launch.
Also, it still does not answer the question on pricing, release dates and country availability (for carrier free devices) these things need to be finalised before launch or very shortly after. In my opinion it's all just a tactic to build up some sort of hype
tft said:
blame the carrier if yours isn't available for preorder yet.
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Click to collapse
Preorder is not the same thing. I only see registration for email alert. Same as T-mobile.
I find it strange that Cellphone carriers do not even concentrate in advertizing for the release of the Note 4.
This is why its nice not having carriers mess and install a bunch of bloat. I don't think carriers mess around with iPhones and install their software on it, so less time wasted on things you don't need or care about. Just get the product out and sell it.
Anyways, just poor planning really, a month is a long time in the tech world and consumer electronic hype wears off fairly fast when something else new and shiny comes out in between then.
apprentice said:
Saying this is normal practice does not make it acceptable.
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Click to collapse
People love hyperbole I guess. If it is 'unacceptable' to you then buy an iPhone or HTC product.
Samsung can release its phone any dang time they feel like it - that's their business. If you don't like it, you can not buy it - that's your business.
JasonJoel said:
People love hyperbole I guess. If it is 'unacceptable' to you then buy an iPhone or HTC product.
Samsung can release its phone any dang time they feel like it - that's their business. If you don't like it, you can not buy it - that's your business.
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Click to collapse
Well duh.. Thanks for explaining that, I feel so enlightened now.
My point of this post is for debate as to why it happens. We the consumers are entitled to complain. I am looking for logical answers not "If you don't like it buy something else" it's not bringing much to the table.
Thats why i am getting the Iphone 6 over the Note 4, it'll be available sooner and i need a high end phone bad. Good thing is ill be able to sell the iphone 6 at a great price and pick up the note 4 when its out.
apprentice said:
Well duh.. Thanks for explaining that, I feel so enlightened now.
My point of this post is for debate as to why it happens. We the consumers are entitled to complain. I am looking for logical answers not "If you don't like it buy something else" it's not bringing much to the table.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no answer other than that is how samsung chooses to do it.
Could they hold the announcement closer to the physical release? Yes, of course they could. They just prefer to do it this way, for whatever marketing reason.
If the marketing people thought it was strategic to announce closer to physical release, they would. But clearly they don't.
If Samsung "should" copy something apple does, its their method of announcing and SHIPPING a product very quickly post launch. That is their only major issue. Why allow other OEM's to get product out the door and lose sales and yes they do lose sales and now that apple is going big and bigger on their phones next week with a launch before the Note 4 hits stores that is a big deal and some would be Note 4 buyers will get a 5.5" iphone instead, (dumb move, but it's their choice).
I fully agree with the OP and carriers are very likely the issue. Negotiations would likely have been done already, in the US anyways its likely more about last minute bloatware and who has a "bigger" tower than anything else.
I blame Verizon, for everything lol.
Apple has more control over the carriers.
Apple has more control over the carriers and the supply chain, that is why their rollouts are quicker.
iPhone 6 on the 19th
I thought this thread would be exploding with comments about how Apple can do it in less than 2 weeks.
Anything over 30 days is crazy. The battery life on my Note 2 fading away, I've been eligible for an upgrade for months.
Now that I know the specifics of the Note 4 it has given my a chance to look at other phones S5, G3, M8 or wait for Nexus X.
The longer I wait the less likely that I'll make an 'impulse buy' I'm still excited about the Note 4 but I'm weighting the cost vs features.
What's up with the pre order pages on Samsung.com and Sprint.com? Did I actually pretty order or was it just an email notification? I didn't even receive an email confirmation.
We all hear the stories of Samsung losing market share across the board, I used to defend them to the naysayers until I purchased this latest flagship tablet of theirs, I have never seen anything so under supported and locked down so developers can't do anything with it. For the first time in years I will not upgrade my phone to another Samsung, buy one in China and its even worse with the embedded spyware installed in the bootloader and modem, replace either component or the kernel and you have a wifi boat anchor.
lorinkundert said:
We all hear the stories of Samsung losing market share across the board, I used to defend them to the naysayers until I purchased this latest flagship tablet of theirs, I have never seen anything so under supported and locked down so developers can't do anything with it. For the first time in years I will not upgrade my phone to another Samsung, buy one in China and its even worse with the embedded spyware installed in the bootloader and modem, replace either component or the kernel and you have a wifi boat anchor.
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Having seen the rumours about the S6 - I would say they have had a turnaround in mindset and we are looking forward to an amazing future. The Tab S is going to get Lollipop in the next month, which is a massive improvement over Kitkat.
The less bloated vision for the future will mean quicker updates also.
Under supported and locked down, how did you come to that conclusion?
Firstly Samsung are good enough to leave the boot loader unlocked which basically opens the door for development and saves a massive headache.
Irrespective of knox which is a manufacturers prerogative to include. It doesn't hinder development, it's just Samsung's mechanism of knowing if the device has been tampered with.
Already there are custom kernels, roms and recoveries and plenty going on regarding such things.
Where's the lack of support unless you refer to Samsung themselves?
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I am a hard core Android advocate but like you, I have tended to steer clear of Samsung lately. I think Samsung has become the "Apple" of the Android market. That in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing per se. If you want a device that just works and you don't do much tinkering or customizing then its great for you. However, if you are all in on Android as a platform and don't want to feel tethered to a particular ecosystem then Samsung may not be your best choice.
They put in a number of measures to ensure you can't customize your device too much (aside from installing a new launcher). But I don't want all of the bloatware and want to have the option to uninstall it and save the space on my device without having to go through the heart stopping process of rooting my device and hoping I don't eff it up.
I think people have started to learn this as well which has resulted in Samsung losing a step. That and the fact that the other manufacturers (LG, Moto, etc) have caught up and actually making better devices IMO. Samsung can't just rely on their brand name anymore like they could a couple of years ago.
If Samsung does have this change in mindset regarding their Android devices that's great but I'll believe it when I see it and it may be too little too late. The damage may be done and the best they could hope for is stop the leaky bucket of customers leaving but not really gain much market share.
Of course all of this is my own personal opinion and no one asked me directly for my opinion so please make your own decisions and do your own research. There's no replacement for making your own informed decision based on your own specific needs.
They still sell a huge number of phones, and a huge number of other components. Might possibly be making OLED screens for iphones soon.
In any case they had a year of less than expected profits rather than losses so I dont expect to see them in decline really.
In decline? Hardly
First off don't be so U.S. Centric. Apple is #1 in market share in the US but it is the only game in town if you want iOS. Samsung, while "only" #2 is still by far the biggest Android supplier. But all that is only in the US. Looking globally, Samsung destroys #2 Apple by two to one. Android destroys iOS by 84.4% to 11.7%. A lot of this is because outside the US the market for flagship phones is a lot smaller and the low end to mid range rules the market.
See: http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp
Here is another one that shows by country market share for the US and the EU countries:
https://gigaom.com/2015/02/04/android-and-ios-are-nearly-tied-for-u-s-smartphone-market-share/
Once again outside the US Android destroys iOS in market share. My theory is the whole carrier subsidized phone phenomenon we have here in the US disguises the actual cost of a phone so you really have to do your math to figure out how much you are actually paying. In other countries where they have to pay up front for the phone, cost matters. I'm guessing those folks are not generally buying the flagship Android phones but going for more affordable options. Apple doesn't really compete at the low end.
So Samsung is well positioned to compete globally. So the idea that its "in decline" isn't really true. Also remember that Samsung is a major supplier of components to other manufacturers including Apple.
ratman6161 said:
First off don't be so U.S. Centric. Apple is #1 in market share in the US but it is the only game in town if you want iOS. Samsung, while "only" #2 is still by far the biggest Android supplier. But all that is only in the US. Looking globally, Samsung destroys #2 Apple by two to one. Android destroys iOS by 84.4% to 11.7%. A lot of this is because outside the US the market for flagship phones is a lot smaller and the low end to mid range rules the market.
See: http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp
Here is another one that shows by country market share for the US and the EU countries:
https://gigaom.com/2015/02/04/android-and-ios-are-nearly-tied-for-u-s-smartphone-market-share/
Once again outside the US Android destroys iOS in market share. My theory is the whole carrier subsidized phone phenomenon we have here in the US disguises the actual cost of a phone so you really have to do your math to figure out how much you are actually paying. In other countries where they have to pay up front for the phone, cost matters. I'm guessing those folks are not generally buying the flagship Android phones but going for more affordable options. Apple doesn't really compete at the low end.
So Samsung is well positioned to compete globally. So the idea that its "in decline" isn't really true. Also remember that Samsung is a major supplier of components to other manufacturers including Apple.
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No they are not. Samsung is losing grounds in both China and India, two of the biggest country (population wise) in the world. Samsung is steadily losing sales on mid to low end phones, which is where Android reign supremacy. It's hard for Samsung to compete when their competitors are willing to sell their phones at just 1.8% profit margin (Xiaomi - 1.7%. Samsung - 18.7%. Apple - 28.7 %).
snapper.fishes said:
No they are not. Samsung is losing grounds in both China and India, two of the biggest country (population wise) in the world. Samsung is steadily losing sales on mid to low end phones, which is where Android reign supremacy. It's hard for Samsung to compete when their competitors are willing to sell their phones at just 1.8% profit margin (Xiaomi - 1.7%. Samsung - 18.7%. Apple - 28.7 %).
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If you have any business education at all, you would know that any company selling at a 1.7% margin won't be around very long. I wouldn't worry about those type of companies taking anything away from Samsung. If anything, their sub-par product will only drive these "new" low-end to mid-tier users to splurge for a better phone on their next purchase.
Samsung isn't going anywhere, and they are more diversified than most companies. That's why they can sell at an 18.7% margin.. because you need a minimum of ~23% overall company margin to maintain growth.
ingenious247 said:
If you have any business education at all, you would know that any company selling at a 1.7% margin won't be around very long. I wouldn't worry about those type of companies taking anything away from Samsung. If anything, their sub-par product will only drive these "new" low-end to mid-tier users to splurge for a better phone on their next purchase.
Samsung isn't going anywhere, and they are more diversified than most companies. That's why they can sell at an 18.7% margin.. because you need a minimum of ~23% overall company margin to maintain growth.
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I am very well aware that Xiaomi's low profit strategy is not sustainable in the long term, and that they will eventually have to change their strategy or collapse. The problem however, is that their product isn't subpar. I personally know people who use their products, and the quality is actually on par with high end android phones. Xiaomi is waging a price war against Samsung in China, and no matter who wins, everyone loses.
I have used Samsung for a long time (including the Note 7 fiasco) and have many of their products in my house. I like using Samsung Pay, except it doesn't work on Apple Pay capable terminals in my area, but they have now gone too far. I'm done.
My rewards points were substantial. I was not aware they expired so I was just letting them roll. I tonight find out that they do expire and they have all been devalued at some time in February of this year I think. This devaluation has cost me $120+! There was no grandfathering or adjusting existing points with this unannounced and uninformed change. Further accumulating points has also been cut in half, basically.
If you take the time to dig you can find out about the expiring points on the Samsung Site, but you MUST dig. I was told by more than one Samsung Rep that they did NOT expire. If Samsung were a decent company it would appear in the FAQs. There is nothing anywhere about the devaluation of existing points, a $100 card went from 40,000 to 50,000 points or 20%!
They could have emailed notice of the redemption change, or prorated the old points, or grandfathered the redemption rate on old points, but nope. Nothing. Nada. Basically, we are taking back some of that money we promised you when you bought our product, too bad. I'm done with their big company bullying.
Does this break the bank? Of course not. It is the principle. There is too much decent competition out there and I'll live without Samsung Pay. By the time I buy another phone the world around here may have caught up and it will not be "special" anyway.
So if you have Samsung Rewards points, sorry about your luck.
Well, I can see your point, very valid as you expected some benefits when you made your purchase, but for many people, like me, the only reason to buy a note 8 was the device itself, I really did not care about points, bonuses, gifts, bundled goodies, etc, I just wanted the supberb device the note 8 is, but that is my opinion
winol said:
Well, I can see your point, very valid as you expected some benefits when you made your purchase, but for many people, like me, the only reason to buy a note 8 was the device itself, I really did not care about points, bonuses, gifts, bundled goodies, etc, I just wanted the supberb device the note 8 is, but that is my opinion
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Same all that extra ish....I never cared for.....am i even a loyal Samsung guy....no....even tho i favored Samsung phones over others from note 3 to 8....from Samsung epic 4g(s2) to s8+...
The only thing that would make me leave Samsung phones are the locked bootloader...but guess what it's still locked and I'm still here because the phones are just to good to pass on.....points? Meh.....but I do get it....its the principal of just letting us know....
I too normally feel that way about points programs. But this was a $200 rebate that is now $100 and other rebates from item purchases. I may have bought the products without the rebates IDK.
Samsung said at the ti. e of the purchase "here's the deal", paid me off in points, then reduced the value of the points WITHOUT notice. They retroactively changed the terms of the sale.
I dont buy Apple products because of company practices, so now Samsung has grown too big and developed that same "Do as we want to the customer" practice. Tired of their lies. What is the next lie to me?
Phredeee said:
I tonight find out that they do expire and they have all been devalued at some time in February of this year I think.
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Yes the points you earn were cut in half, yet the cost of items have remained the same which will take you twice as long to get something. I have been occasionally using Samsung Pay to get the $20 gift-card at 6000 points since they cut the points in half then I am probably dropping it. It was a great incentive to use Samsung pay but now it will take forever to get anything which makes the point system dang near useless. The only reason I may still use Samsung Pay is the security regarding those "skimmers" people are using at gas pumps/etc to help cut back on someone stealing my credit card number, even though it still happens every couple years or so...
Samsung Rewards rip-off
xbmoyx said:
..., yet the cost of items have remained the same .....
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Not true. The cost of items increased by 20%. See my example of a $100 rewards card increase from 40,000 points to 50,000 points. This happened across the board on the Rewards Cards. I've heard that gift cards and Samsung product redemptions also increased but can't confirm.
So it is a double whammy for their customers. You earn less AND it takes more at redemption. Done without notice or concern for their existing customers.
Sure, companies revamp their rewards programs. But they either pro rate existing points or notify the customer of upcoming changes or both. Samsung did neither.
Phredeee said:
Not true. The cost of items increased by 20%. See my example of a $100 rewards card increase from 40,000 points to 50,000 points. This happened across the board on the Rewards Cards. I've heard that gift cards and Samsung product redemptions also increased but can't confirm.
So it is a double whammy for their customers. You earn less AND it takes more at redemption. Done without notice or concern for their existing customers.
Sure, companies revamp their rewards programs. But they either pro rate existing points or notify the customer of upcoming changes or both. Samsung did neither.
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I believe there was a notification on the SamsungPay app/ email (I do not remember which or both). So, they are not deceptive. Maybe you missed it/ blatantly choose to ignore it?
Also, when you signup for Samsung Pay, it clearly says points expire after 1 year, so....
Sure, they did not grandfather the point values, but, those are points and if you really wanted to get something, you should have redeemed it. There is no reason to flak a company if you did not take pains to understand how and when the points expire. If its hurting your bottom line so much, did you try calling SamsungPay support and talk to them and inform about your concern? I have done that multiple times and they have been reasonable.
Reward programs and all will always change at the will of the company, thats what they mention in the fine print. So, if you "agreed" to the terms, you have little to no choice. As an individual, if you want to stop buying Samsung products, sure, its your choice. Will it change Samsung or anyone else? Not really. C'est la vie!
xbmoyx said:
Yes the points you earn were cut in half, yet the cost of items have remained the same which will take you twice as long to get something. I have been occasionally using Samsung Pay to get the $20 gift-card at 6000 points since they cut the points in half then I am probably dropping it. It was a great incentive to use Samsung pay but now it will take forever to get anything which makes the point system dang near useless. The only reason I may still use Samsung Pay is the security regarding those "skimmers" people are using at gas pumps/etc to help cut back on someone stealing my credit card number, even though it still happens every couple years or so...
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myechophone said:
I believe there was a notification on the SamsungPay app/ email (I do not remember which or both). So, they are not deceptive. Maybe you missed it/ blatantly choose to ignore it?
Also, when you signup for Samsung Pay, it clearly says points expire after 1 year, so....
Sure, they did not grandfather the point values, but, those are points and if you really wanted to get something, you should have redeemed it. There is no reason to flak a company if you did not take pains to understand how and when the points expire. If its hurting your bottom line so much, did you try calling SamsungPay support and talk to them and inform about your concern? I have done that multiple times and they have been reasonable.
Reward programs and all will always change at the will of the company, thats what they mention in the fine print. So, if you "agreed" to the terms, you have little to no choice. As an individual, if you want to stop buying Samsung products, sure, its your choice. Will it change Samsung or anyone else? Not really. C'est la vie!
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I received no notice. or I surely would not have chosen to lose over $100 by choice. Certainly not blatantly.
"...if you really wanted to get something, you should have redeemed it..." Really!? Is it not reasonable to let points accumulate in order to reach a desired goal?
If you read my post you will see where I mention it is not about my bottom line. Yes, I have spoken to SamsungPay support 4 times in the last day. Explaining each time, each time there is nothing offered, NOTHING. Realizing the first tier of support is limited to their authorization I request to speak to a supervisor. Each time I'm promised a call back. None of those 4 call backs have happened. The last was 4 hours ago. That's some customer respect, eh? " Just lie to them, they will go away." Going away is exactly what I'm doing. This is just one forum where I express my feeling on the issue. Perhaps someone else notices that is shopping. IDK, maybe.
There may have been some notice of point expiration and/or change in the rules in the boilerplate fine print in the beginning. Hardly clearly by any measure. No one that I know reads the entire EULAs/terms in detail. If Samsung cared about making these details clear they would be in the FAQs. I searched for an explanation and found nothing on their web site about the redemption value change. What's clear is that they don't want it clear. They didn't want a run on the points and if they can save $100 per customer it sure does help their bottom line. Most companies phase these changes in.
No, I don't think that my rant will directly affect Samsung at all. But remember, class actions all start with a single person.
Phredeee said:
I have used Samsung for a long time (including the Note 7 fiasco) and have many of their products in my house. I like using Samsung Pay, except it doesn't work on Apple Pay capable terminals in my area, but they have now gone too far. I'm done.
My rewards points were substantial. I was not aware they expired so I was just letting them roll. I tonight find out that they do expire and they have all been devalued at some time in February of this year I think. This devaluation has cost me $120+! There was no grandfathering or adjusting existing points with this unannounced and uninformed change. Further accumulating points has also been cut in half, basically.
If you take the time to dig you can find out about the expiring points on the Samsung Site, but you MUST dig. I was told by more than one Samsung Rep that they did NOT expire. If Samsung were a decent company it would appear in the FAQs. There is nothing anywhere about the devaluation of existing points, a $100 card went from 40,000 to 50,000 points or 20%!
They could have emailed notice of the redemption change, or prorated the old points, or grandfathered the redemption rate on old points, but nope. Nothing. Nada. Basically, we are taking back some of that money we promised you when you bought our product, too bad. I'm done with their big company bullying.
Does this break the bank? Of course not. It is the principle. There is too much decent competition out there and I'll live without Samsung Pay. By the time I buy another phone the world around here may have caught up and it will not be "special" anyway.
So if you have Samsung Rewards points, sorry about your luck.
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I mean it is kind of caveat emptor. I, it seems, wisely cashed in my points every 10K for my $50 gift cards. My wife just missed out on having enough this go around. Now she has close to the 12,500 that she needs, but it will take even longer. It is a free points system though, they don't even have to offer you anything. Plus you are getting any interest you may accrue by leaving the money in your bank account and paying your credit card once a month. You also get any rewards points that card may offer. It really is double or triple dipping.
I imagine people like my wife and I are the reason they halved it and increased it. We have extra phones and maxed them out every month under normal operation. To the tune of about $40 a month when you work the math out. I can't think of any reason Samsung will lose sleep over not retaining your business. This is truly a trivial reason to boycott them. What were you saving up for anyway? A Ferrari?
Hell I can think of a few reasons that personally effect me in a much larger financial scale right off the top of my head.
Note 7. $500+
Dropped support for my Note 12.2 Pro. $500+
ARC HDMI port stopped working on my 75" TV $2000+
Don't forget Samsung is the ONLY device with MST payments. I don't even carry a wallet anymore...and I've never had a terminal that would accept ApplePay and my phone/watch not work.
please note that in the retail business, expiring points is common practice. it is also stated somehwere in the 'fine print' that was never read and tossed away.
thinking otherwise is a grave misunderstanding on your part.
Anyways, the device it self and any marketing schemes are 2 things and are 2 very different departments. Hell, samsung usa samsung canada and samsung xyz all have their own terms and conditions.
its like buying mc donalds coffee and collecting the tags to evenrually get a free coffee. well they probably expire. and if they dont that means they reserve the right to pull the promo at anytime.
the question you need to ask yourself is:
are you buying the cofee because its good or because you want a free one eventually?
i work support in the retail business and loyalty accounts, points etc is just a scheme to make you buy more. Isint this common knowledge?
At this rate, you should boycott everything if you are unhappy with the terms because samsung is just the point of the iceberg.
in the long run, the only meaningful thing that you can do is stop spending money period. they are all out there to get you.
now with all these pay pass technologies you can spend even faster to accumulate more points to then spend them again etc...it never ends till you put a stop to it.
Ok. So the def. common practice caused you to boycott samsung products...
I see.
To he honest, I never paid attention to the rewards points. For me, the most important thing is the device itself, the design, the features, how advanced it is. I guess like Apple who never gave you any reward points will never piss you off
Me too for many reasons... Reason 1 is the delayed updates... RiP Samsung
DemGer said:
Me too for many reasons... Reason 1 is the delayed updates... RiP Samsung
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Wow. I guess Samsung will change their strategy. Too many people leaving.
DemGer said:
Me too for many reasons... Reason 1 is the delayed updates... RiP Samsung
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I got Oreo a week after the S8. Which came out like 6 months before. Of course they wouldn't release Oreo before the S9 came out. What delay?
A few points:
The interest earned current in bank accounts is miniscule. Credit card interest in my case is moot since I pay none.
It is not common practice to be so evasive informing customers that there are changes happening to loyalty programs. I've had loyalty points prorated when points were devalued. How far do you have to drill down at Samsungs Rewards website to find any mention of points expiring?
Samsung Customer Service promised many calls and emails that simply did not happen.
I have Samsung TVs, Washer, Dryer, Microwave, Refrigerator, Phones, and more. All purchased within the last 2 years with well over $15k spent.
It is not really about the money or the product, it is about how I'm being treated. I wasn't happy about how I was treated with the Note 7 either.
Samsung Pay capability and the $200 price reduction were by far the driving force behind my purchase of the Note 8. Samsung Pay is becoming less desirable since it works at fewer and fewer places as Apple Pay becomes more popular. My phone does not work wherever Apple Pay does (newer POS machines). I have talked to Samsung many times about this with zero results. The $200 rebate has changed now also. I am paying more for less.
Samsung expects me to return, and do without a phone for weeks, if I have a warranty issue. Even if the phone is only days old. This is just another detail that is not well communicated by Samsung.
I could go on and on about features promised but not available. So, my decision is about the cumulative disrespect shown by the "grown too large" Samsung.
Sure, it's a nice phone. But is it that much nicer than the competition if it doesn't have Samsung Pay and cost $100+ more? Why should I buy Samsung? Not price, not service, and the competition is close with other Android phones and I expect to be even closer as time goes on.
Well, clearly you made a big mistake when you bought a note series phone, this device is meant for those who find the s pen and all its functions the number 1 reason to buy it, if this unique characteristic was not the compelling reason to buy a note series device, then an iphone would have been a more useful option for you, as you said that you find more and more apple pay sites and less and less samsung pay sites, at least where you live or work or travel
I'm sorry but I am sure the rewards points expiring ins in the ToS agreement. You know that lil fine print everyone just checks I agree without reading. So it's on you and not them.
As far as updates it seems all phone makers and carriers drags their feet on updates. As they all love to put their little stuff in there over base android. If you want timely updates with android. You need to use a Google phone. I like samsung phones even with the note 7 fiasco. I started with moto original droid phone and moved to HTC but the phones went downhill over time.
I have used apple devices but found them lackluster at best. Not saying it's a bad phone as I suggest them to people that wants a phone that's simple to operate. All phones has their drawbacks
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