It probably happened a month ago and I am just noticing it today (Nov 23, 2009), but it's very welcome news. For past 4 years I've been using Windows Mobile, but really thrilled to now have my HTC Hero running Android. I'm just curious when the Development & Hacking forum structure was revamped to give Android completely equal footing to the formerly "mostly just Windows Mobile HTC site"?
I hope someone will answer this question before it gets plucked away and banished to "General Discussions"
Yea, it happened probably a month ago... XDA has never intended to be locked down to just one device manufacture. at the time of XDA's creation the leader in smart phones was HTC and thus we worked with only the best (htc phones). However, now that time has passed we are seeing other smartphones begin to rival even HTC's prior superiority.
While we don't know yet the future of XDA, we hope in the future we can find a way to still provided the best Mod, hack, dev support for your favourite cutting edge phone.
Since the android platform is pretty generic for most phones that run it, meaning they have alot of base principles that tie them together, this has been created, and other sub forums, to try and reach out to the Android side and offer a place to put their mods hack and ideas that may benefit the community.
Stericson
Stericson, thanks very much -- very helpful. It fits with the understanding I'd always had --- that the forum began for modding the device actually called the XDA, which was an HTC phone. And the dominant platform was Windows Mobile.
I have been happy to see how users, all over the site, have been adapting to and including Android phones (those put out by HTC) and Android OS... and how a larger and larger group of users have asked for what you've now given: An equal-weight approach to the Android platform as well as WindowsMobile.
XDA has never intended to be locked down to just one device manufacture. at the time of XDA's creation the leader in smart phones was HTC and thus we worked with only the best (htc phones). However, now that time has passed we are seeing other smartphones begin to rival even HTC's prior superiority.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is interesting to read because I have never seen it expressed here before now that XDA-Developers might (... might) begin to more officially support devices made other than by HTC. 9 out of 10 times when a new registrant comes to XDA and asks "where's the forum for the Droid?", and before that, "where are the forums for the Omnia?" and "SonyEricsson?", the answer given by users is "This site is about HTC phones only" usually followed by "read the frikkin' FAQ!"...
Pushing the inclusion-boundaries of XDA-Devs, to me, is a great thing.. and an almost necessary adaptation... as the game has changed dramatically post-iphone. Given that most people in WindowsMobile land equate XDA-Devs as the ultimate go-to source for any mods and hacks on that platform, several large and separate communities have emerged to fill in new concentration-areas with Android that have appeared to be "unsupported by" or "outside the scope of" XDA-Devs. But also gven that Android rooting & modding began happening here almost immediately since HTC produced the first phones, an Android expertise exists here.
To me, now is the time to decide: does XDA officially expand to embrace the other phone makers now releasing Android phones?
Thanks for answering my question. And if you want to move this thread to a more appropriate forum, please do.
In in this New year Your Question should be answered.
There will be New Non HTC devices added to the Forums, though not in Large Scale. We won't be supported all new Smartphones coming out.
And which, well that's still a discussion being had in the General Forum
This decision may come as a surprise to some of our readers, particularly given the sales figures posted by Samsung for recent product launches such as the flagship Galaxy S3 and Note II. Nonetheless, this year, the XDA Developers’ OEM of the Year is Sony Mobile.
The relationship between XDA and Sony has been frosty in the past, thanks in part to the locking of bootloaders, subsequent lack of updates, and Sony’s efforts in early 2011 to target open source community “developers” with lawsuits in other product categories (such as the Playstation 3). This resulted in many top developers turning a blind eye to anything and everything Sony. They eventually dropped the suit later on in the year, but that was no consolation to the community.
Despite these events, a change was signaled in September of 2011, when Sony’s Head of Developer Relations posted a notice to the community that they supported independent Android OS developers. Then in early 2012, Sony Mobile released the Sony Xperia S, the first Sony Android phone to be released with flagship-level specs. Soon after, Sony signaled a change in their stance towards open source development by releasing a guide for unlocking the bootloader on the Xperia S and then releasing not only the kernel source code but also a guide for building it.
In just over 12 months, they had gone from suing a developer that hacked the bootloader on his own purchased device, to providing the tools to unlock the bootloader on a high-quality device and giving users the instructions to build the kernel source. No other manufacturer had done that, nor have any others to date. That is full-on GPLv2 compliance like we’ve never seen before at XDA.
Here is a list of the other steps they took towards openness in the community in 2012:
In March Sony officially released a public beta of ICS for the Xperia Play when no other manufacturer was officially releasing betas.
In April Sony released ICS for their entire 2011 line of devices, becoming the first manufacturer to do so.
Their Sony Developer Relations team announced a program to allow developers to borrow devices for application testing.
In August the Sony Xperia S became the first non-Nexus device (not counting the Motorola Xoom) to be included in the AOSP device tree as an experimental device. They then followed that up by releasing the AOSP binaries for the Xperia S.
Later in August Sony began open-sourcing their own code for the Dynamic Android Sensor Hardware Abstraction Layer (DASH for short) to the community.
In October they joined XDA at the Big Android BBQ to discuss their plans for further open source interaction in the community.
They announced they would be taking the lead for the AOSP source for the Xperia S and manage it themselves in their own github, and begin merging in Android 4.2.
They continue to utilize their highly active development blog where their developer team discusses their views on Android, and announce preview “Alpha” and “Beta” builds of updated device firmware and seek user feedback.
CyanogenMod custom firmware distribution is maintained for several Sony devices by a number of Sony Mobile developers, in their own time.
Given the recent trend by companies such as Samsung to often overlook the custom ROM developer community (in favor of application developers), it is refreshing to see Sony going far beyond what is required to improve the experience of their devices for anyone interested in developing for the platform. Given their contributions to the Android community-at-large in 2012 alone, and their complete turn around in less than 16 months, Sony is XDA’s OEM of the Year for 2012!
If you’re looking for a couple great options for Sony devices, we recommend the Xperia S or the Xperia T.
Now, what we really want to hear is YOUR top OEM for 2012. Vote below to let us know!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The link
The only thing holding me back from this device is the locked boot loader:crying:
Pretty sure one major reason why LG won't make the bootloader open is the exclusive game and software contracts they have on this phone with certain service providers in Asia.
The funny thing about Sony, and other companies, is that they will only release a bootloader like this if someone is not willing to pay to keep it closed. So the praise for Sony here is a bit misplaced, to put it like that. Generally rooted phones receive a limited amount of support afterwards, simply because they believe they don't earn any money on them afterwards.
I.e., the only reason Sony does something like this isn't because they will design their own software shell to operate with other shells. Instead it's for two reasons:
1. They're 100% confident that rooted shells are inferior to theirs, and is locked down in certain ways that makes it useless as far as replacing the original one.
2. They realize that an extremely small number of people actually do root their phones or use a custom kernel.
Now, if they came out and said: "We have a sales philsophy that isn't tied to the locked down shell, and instead one that is focused on the device and the features of the device only. While the software we have can be used interchangeably with other shells, because of the way it's designed from the bottom up to do so - and we encourage the community to create their variants of the surrounding software package". If they did that, they'd deserve praise.
Something like this - well, that's about the same level as praising a mugger for telling you where he's going to fence your stuff.
UIQrules said:
Pretty sure one major reason why LG won't make the bootloader open is the exclusive game and software contracts they have on this phone with certain service providers in Asia.
The funny thing about Sony, and other companies, is that they will only release a bootloader like this if someone is not willing to pay to keep it closed. So the praise for Sony here is a bit misplaced, to put it like that. Generally rooted phones receive a limited amount of support afterwards, simply because they believe they don't earn any money on them afterwards.
I.e., the only reason Sony does something like this isn't because they will design their own software shell to operate with other shells. Instead it's for two reasons:
1. They're 100% confident that rooted shells are inferior to theirs, and is locked down in certain ways that makes it useless as far as replacing the original one.
2. They realize that an extremely small number of people actually do root their phones or use a custom kernel.
Now, if they came out and said: "We have a sales philsophy that isn't tied to the locked down shell, and instead one that is focused on the device and the features of the device only. While the software we have can be used interchangeably with other shells, because of the way it's designed from the bottom up to do so - and we encourage the community to create their variants of the surrounding software package". If they did that, they'd deserve praise.
Something like this - well, that's about the same level as praising a mugger for telling you where he's going to fence your stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you are actually misguided on this one. Sony's Developer Relations team does not want any of their device's bootloader locked - it's the carriers who desire them locked. At the executive level, Sony has to deal with misperception that unlocked bootloader == rooted phone. They are slowly changing that mindset, but it's an uphill battle. There are a large number of Sony devices capable of being unlocked, and they go to great lengths to make sure they help the user do it.
What will always be a struggle is the carrier's and their hold on the industry. Once that hold gets loosened, then we'll see a lot more positive things.
I would like to bring to the attention of the community, and seek your help with respect to, Australian online reseller Kogan, who I recently discovered are knowingly and intentionally infringing on the copyrights of many by copying and commercially distributing GPL'd software on a variety of Android devices and refusing to comply with their licenses, by not providing the source-code to product owners. The software in question includes both the Linux kernel and U-Boot, but most likely other software too.
I have of course contacted Kogan support and was responded to by a staff member; who I believe is their job to illegally dismiss and mislead customers who make legitimate legal requests for GPL'd source-code and the such. I have thus far endured a lengthy exchange from August 24th, 2013, up until my most recent message to Kogan support member Arun, on October 21st, 2013. I suspect it is Arun's job to dismiss GPL requests and the such because during this two month period, a friend of mine also purchased a different Kogan branded Android product and subsequently requested the source code; only to receive near identical responses from none other than Arun.
Devices that we (myself and my friend) personally bought from Kogan and have requested (and have been denied) source-code for include:
Dual-core Kogan Agora Smartphone - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-50-dual-core-smartphone/
Entering the exciting world of Android handsets has never been easier or more affordable than right now with Kogan’s Agora Smartphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
42" Agora Smart 3D LED TV (Full HD) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/42-agora-smart-3d-led-tv-full-hd/
Packed full of features and running the powerful Android 4.2 (Jelly Bean), you will soon be accessing the newest video content, browsing the internet, checking your Facebook, posting to Twitter, managing your emails and making use of the rapidly expanding range of Android apps and games, all of which are easily accessible via the Google Play store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
47" Agora Smart 3D LED TV (Full HD) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/42-agora-smart-3d-led-tv-full-hd/
Packed full of features and running the powerful Android 4.2 (Jelly Bean), you will soon be accessing the newest video content, browsing the internet, checking your Facebook, posting to Twitter, managing your emails and making use of the rapidly expanding range of Android apps and games, all of which are easily accessible via the Google Play store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe the following are also a list of infringing devices:
Agora HD Smartphone - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-50-quad-core-smartphone/
Packed with a powerful 1.2GHz Quad Core processor, a dazzling 1280×720 IPS screen, high quality 8MP rear camera and running Android 4.2.2 (Jelly Bean), this smartphone is unbelievable value!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
32" Agora Smart LED TV (HD) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/32-agora-dual-core-smart-led-tv/
Featuring High Definition 720p for HD Broadcasts and HDMI devices, while supporting crystal clear HD 720p playback via built-in Agora Smart TV.
Using Android 4.2 (Jelly Bean) you can access video content, browse the internet, check up on your friends via Facebook, keep up to date on Twitter, manage your emails, watch the latest trending videos on YouTube and make use of an ever expanding variety of Android apps and games, which are all easily accessible via the Google Play store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
55" Agora Smart 3D LED TV (Full HD) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/55-agora-smart-3d-led-tv-full-hd/
Packed full of features and running the powerful Android 4.2 (Jelly Bean), you will soon be accessing the newest video content, browsing the internet, checking your Facebook, posting to Twitter, managing your emails and making use of the rapidly expanding range of Android apps and games, all of which are easily accessible via the Google Play store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agora Smart TV Quad Core HDMI Dongle - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-smart-tv-quad-core-hdmi-dongle/
There is always something great on TV with the Agora Smart TV HDMI Dongle.
Plug it into the back of the television, complete the 3-step set-up and be greeted by a menu that will revolutionize how you spend your time on the couch.
Android Operating System delivers never-ending possibilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agora Mini 8" Dual Core Tablet (8GB) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-mini-8-dual-core-tablet-8gb/
The Kogan Agora Mini 8” Dual Core Tablet PC is perfect for anyone who wants to experience Android on a bright and responsive multi-touch screen with illuminated soft-keys, while maintaining the portability thousands of happy customers have loved in the Kogan Agora Tablet Series.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agora Mini 8" Dual Core Tablet (16GB) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-mini-8-dual-core-tablet-16gb/
The Kogan Agora Mini 8” Dual Core Tablet PC is perfect for anyone who wants to experience Android on a bright and responsive multi-touch screen with illuminated soft-keys, while maintaining the portability thousands of happy customers have loved in the Kogan Agora Tablet Series.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agora 10" Dual Core Tablet (8GB) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-10-dual-core-tablet-8gb/
The Kogan Agora 10” Dual Core Tablet PC is perfect for anyone who wants to experience Android on a large, bright, and responsive multi-touch screen with illuminated soft-keys, while maintaining the portability thousands of happy customers have loved in the Kogan Agora Tablet Series.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agora 10" Dual Core Tablet (16GB) - http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/agora-10-dual-core-tablet-16gb/
The Kogan Agora 10” Dual Core Tablet PC is perfect for anyone who wants to experience Android on a large, bright, and responsive multi-touch screen with illuminated soft-keys, while maintaining the portability thousands of happy customers have loved in the Kogan Agora Tablet Series.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's a lot of infringing devices! These are only the Android-running devices. I suspect their other TVs, their routers, and perhaps other embedded devices are also running Linux and other GPL'd software.
I am seeking the community's help in rectifying this situation. Kogan must provide the source-code to owners' of the above products upon the owner's request. In fact they must (and are definitely not in all cases), distribute the GPL license with these products along with a written offer provide (or instructions to obtain) the source-code for the GPL'd software running on these devices. As such, I would like every one of you to blog, video blog, write about, yell about, or otherwise make publicly known, that Kogan are knowingly and intentionally violating these licenses.
If by the off chance you are a contributor to the mainline Linux kernel, you can also send Kogan a legal complaint that they are infringing on your copyright. If you are a Linux contributor and willing to help, please do not hesitate to contact me.
If you are the owner of one of the products mentioned above, please contact Kogan support and request the source-code for the device(s) you own. Feel free to include in your contact messages the GPLv2 license (as it pertains to the Linux kernel).
Exchange with Kogan
Below are a few excerpts of my lengthy exchange with Kogan support staff member, Arun. Please excuse the typos, when I get frustrated and offended (yes as developer I find this offensive) I find it very difficult to write!
Myself said:
Hi Arun,
Sorry, I'd did try to be explicit in my request, but it does look as though you may have misinterpreted me.
I am after the source code for any open source software that runs on the the Kogan Agora 47 (and the Kogan Agora Smartphone as well actually) specifically as these are both products I've purchased from Kogan. What you've linked to is the source-code for the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) which is used as a basis for Android manufacturers. On it's own AOSP will not run on third-party devices. Every device is unique and has its own modifications to Android. Some of this software is licensed under the GPL[1] of which manufacturers (and resellers) are legally required to make available to owners of devices running the software.
I don't know precisely what GPL (or LGPL) licensed software runs on my Android TV (KALED473DSMTZA) and my Android phone (KHPHN05ANDA) because the licenses weren't included with the devices (which is actually a violation of the licenses). However, I do know that at minimum they both run a modified version of the Linux kernel, which is a core component of Android and licensed under GPL. I'd be inclined to think that the bootloaders running on the device are also derivatives of GPL licensed source code. I haven't bothered investigating on my own because I would have assumed you at Kogan already has access to this information and would be able to provide it to me.
As such I'm requesting the source code and a list of open-source software that run on the following devices that I own and operate:
- KALED473DSMTZA: 47 inch Android Smart TV
- KHPHN05ANDA: 5 inch Android Dual-Sim Smartphone
I do understand that any potential GPL (or other open source license) violations may be accidental on Kogan's behalf. I do also understand that Kogan works with Chinese manufacturers to provide these products and may need to chase this up with individual manufacturers. However, if this is going to take some time I would appreciate it if you could provide me with regular updates so that I can ensure that you're trying to address this. Otherwise I will need to report any violations of licenses to their respective copyright holders (and GPL Violations[2]) whom, hopefully it wouldn't come to this, may need follow up with legal action.
Thanks,
Benjamin Dobell
[1] GPL - http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.htmlhttp://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
[2] GPL Violations - http://gpl-violations.org/http://gpl-violations.org/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Arun claims:
Arun said:
We have thoroughly investigated this issue of GPL.
Now as we understand we have not made any changes to the Kernel source code.
Thus we are not required to publish or share anything and are fully complaint to GPL.
We have added the interface on top and are covered by Android licensing which is licensed under Apache 2.0.
http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html
We don't need to give source code for the product, as we are entitled to modify Android base system and not release those changes to customers.
Android source is 100% available for everyone to download from Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Arun said:
I have already explained, the Kernel is not changed and it is available for you to download online.
Drivers have been added to support the hardware and we have built an interface that goes over the top of Android, just a skin/theme.
We are not required to publish or share this information.
We are not violating any license agreement and not intending to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is despite the fact that I had explicitly pointed out, and explained, the exact relevant portions of the GPLv2. The GPLv2 makes it very clear that the exact source code for each software release distributed to customers/consumers must be made available, which is entirely irrespective of whether the source-code is actually modified. This is because simply stating an embedded device runs Linux kernel is entirely ambiguous/useless; as there are plethora of versions, variants and even forks that one could be referring to. GPL violations FAQ (http://gpl-violations.org/faq/sourcecode-faq.html) summarise this requirement nicely:
What version of the source code do I have to release?
For each and every version of the executable program, you have to release the precisely corresponding version of the complete corresponding source code.
So if you have distributed ten different versions of firmware for an embedded product, and this firmware contains GPL licensed software, then you need to release ten different source code packages, each one corresponding for each executable version.
Please note that if you chose GPL Option 3b (rather than 3a), then the obligation only lasts for three years. This means that you do not have to provide source code for any executable code that was last distributed more than three years ago.
Please also keep in mind that both distribution on physical storage medium and distribution via data networks such as the Internet count as distribution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, the "unmodified Linux kernel" argument, despite being entirely wrong, is also a complete and utter lie on Kogan's behalf. The mainline Linux Git repository most certainly does not include the necessary source-code and install scripts to build and install a version of the Linux kernel that would run on any of Kogan's Android devices.
NOTE: Arun is completely correct with respect to any modifications to the Apache 2.0 licensed components of Android; Kogan are under no obligation to release them. Which is why at no stage did I ask for the source-code to this software. This is simply Kogan intentionally trying to confuse matters in order to avoid their obligations.
Kogan seems to be a smaller player, but on Android Platform, there are bigger players who are violating the GPL intentionally.
Micromax, Karbonn and Celkon are 3 brands which manufacture budget phones in India. Micromax is a very popular brand and it is currently the top selling phone company in India provided they sell phones at very cheap prices encouraging everyone to purchase them. The market is huge and Micromax would no more translate to a Local brand. The phones are being reviewed on Gsmarena and Youtube too making them more and more popular.
http://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?sQuickSearch=yes&sName=micromax
Micromax was making budget phones in India based on Chinese OS earlier. Most of their phones were rebranded Chinese phones and few of them still are. They made a move to Android, cutting down the Software Development cost for obvious reasons and reducing the price of the device. There have been numerous petitions and requests for source releases but none have been paid off so far. We all know that most of the Android AOSP code is not released, but all the major players atleast release the kernel sources, which is not the case for these brands. I have contacted them numerous times, but they have blindly refused to do anything about it stating that GPL doesn't exists and is not enforced in India.
Myself being a Recognized Developer and Contributer from India, I have been receiving a lot of PMs from other forum members asking me if there is a way to use the generic kernel source code and port it to the device, which I regard would be a lot painful and definitely not worth the effort.
Most manufacturers only know how to sell their phones, but they give a damn about the Software crime that they are committing. I haven't contributed to mainstream kernel myself and I could imagine how frustrated could one be when their intellectual property is shamelessly stolen.
dhiru1602 said:
Kogan seems to be a smaller player, but on Android Platform, there are bigger players who are violating the GPL intentionally.
Micromax, Karbonn and Celkon are 3 brands which manufacture budget phones in India. Micromax is a very popular brand and it is currently the top selling phone company in India provided they sell phones at very cheap prices encouraging everyone to purchase them. The market is huge and Micromax would no more translate to a Local brand. The phones are being reviewed on Gsmarena and Youtube too making them more and more popular.
http://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?sQuickSearch=yes&sName=micromax
Micromax was making budget phones in India based on Chinese OS earlier. Most of their phones were rebranded Chinese phones and few of them still are. They made a move to Android, cutting down the Software Development cost for obvious reasons and reducing the price of the device. There have been numerous petitions and requests for source releases but none have been paid off so far. We all know that most of the Android AOSP code is not released, but all the major players atleast release the kernel sources, which is not the case for these brands. I have contacted them numerous times, but they have blindly refused to do anything about it stating that GPL doesn't exists and is not enforced in India.
Myself being a Recognized Developer and Contributer from India, I have been receiving a lot of PMs from other forum members asking me if there is a way to use the generic kernel source code and port it to the device, which I regard would be a lot painful and definitely not worth the effort.
Most manufacturers only know how to sell their phones, but they give a damn about the Software crime that they are committing. I haven't contributed to mainstream kernel myself and I could imagine how frustrated could one be when their intellectual property is shamelessly stolen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea Micromax definitely refuses to comply with the GPL. I've only dealt with a couple of Micromax devices on request from users to build CWMR for them and then asked to build CM* for them and various other mods. Which w/o kernel src, it makes things alot more difficult, if not impossible. I just ended up declining to work on the devices.
Huawei and ZTE dont fully comply with the GPL on all their devices either. They like to only release src for a few devices and we dont want to get into their awful coding. lol
PlayfulGod said:
Yea Micromax definitely refuses to comply with the GPL. I've only dealt with a couple of Micromax devices on request from users to build CWMR for them and then asked to build CM* for them and various other mods. Which w/o kernel src, it makes things alot more difficult, if not impossible. I just ended up declining to work on the devices.
Huawei and ZTE dont fully comply with the GPL on all their devices either. They like to only release src for a few devices and we dont want to get into their awful coding. lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is unfortunate but also true that they are all doing it. For instance, Vizio gave me answers, regarding the Co-Star, that are almost verbatim what OP got from Kogan: "no they are not obligated to release anything; if I want to see their kernel I can ask Google for the GTV source code, etc."
cyansmoker said:
It is unfortunate but also true that they are all doing it. For instance, Vizio gave me answers, regarding the Co-Star, that are almost verbatim what OP got from Kogan: "no they are not obligated to release anything; if I want to see their kernel I can ask Google for the GTV source code, etc."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont know to take their answers as just being defiant or ignorant. lol
How do they think they are except from complying to the GPL for using/modifying the kernel src in which we all know they have to do to get it to work with their devices. lol
My vote is ignorance on behalf of the human relations depts, which dont have a clue wtf they are even talking about.
@Benjamin Dobell
How is progress going? I just saw this in an article on ausdroid
As utterly ridiculous this is, being a supposedly 100% google kernel (which it 100% can't be to run on this hardware etc) and how you are correct, there are big violators out there and frankly the "GPL" is nothing. It is kind of like threatening someone with no intent of hurting them: GPL are not going to do much. When HTC release broken kernel sources, 80 days after official OTA is out (when the new base is already out) people are just happy they release it. And while HTC, Samsung, Sony etc are legally supposed to provide kernel source, the main reason imo they release is to keep this xda/hacking community happy. If HTC didn't release kernel sources anymore, most of the community would leave the HTC devices, and buy a samsung or something. It might even make the news, so HTC would get bad publicity.
What does Kogan care, they are selling very small volumes of these phones compared with the big guns, and there are even less people interested in the sources. While I agree that you are correct and Kogan need to release source, not much can be done
Just my 2 cents
Good catch on the Kogan issue, but it will be hard to make a difference by going it alone. Best if you can get friendly with some journalists, perhaps the APC Mag guys or whatever to build up some buzz. Once you have someone interested you can fan the flames from there, to get the word out. You'll probably be surprised what they are willing to run on a slow news day As an idea, if you look at a number of the Kogan stories running in the news recently you might also find some interested journos.
BTW, I suspect Kogan could fix this quite easily by requesting that their Chinese suppliers also supply the kernel source along with the hardware/software deliverables. Might be hard to do that retrospectively but they should do that for all future devices.
Post this on the gpl-violations mailing list.
http://lists.gpl-violations.org/mailman/listinfo/legal/
It wouldn't be the first Android violator they've dealt with this year.
Kogan and the GPL http://ausdroid.net/2013/11/04/kogan-and-the-gpl/?utm_source=ausdroidnetapp
Kogan have been emailed twice re this but haven't responded at all. Hopefully this Might make them get their butts into gear.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
LLStarks said:
Post this on the gpl-violations mailing list.
http://lists.gpl-violations.org/mailman/listinfo/legal/
It wouldn't be the first Android violator they've dealt with this year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just out of interest how many times has a violator been dealt with?
MontAlbert said:
Kogan and the GPL http://ausdroid.net/2013/11/04/kogan-and-the-gpl/?utm_source=ausdroidnetapp
Kogan have been emailed twice re this but haven't responded at all. Hopefully this Might make them get their butts into gear.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it makes it to sites other than ausdroid and portrays Kogan in a bad light... yeah I do see it evoking change. To get rid of their bad image if they want to keep selling phones
Most violators tend to comply when confronted by GPL organizations like the Software Freedom Conservancy and Free Software Foundation. Samsung partnered with the SFC recently to peacefully come into compliance over their exfat implementation which used a lot of GPL-licensed Linux filesystem code. Going to court is very rare.
And yes, most of these violations are discussed in the mailing list by people responsible for enforcement. Armijn Hemel and Brad Kuhn of the SFC especially.
I'd be willing to bet that Kogan is also using a GPL-licensed Busybox along with their Linux kernel.
LLStarks said:
Most violators tend to comply when confronted by GPL organizations like the Software Freedom Conservancy and Free Software Foundation. Samsung partnered with the SFC recently to peacefully come into compliance over their exfat implementation which used a lot of GPL-licensed Linux filesystem code. Going to court is very rare.
And yes, most of these violations are discussed in the mailing list by people responsible for enforcement. Armijn Hemel and Brad Kuhn of the SFC especially.
I'd be willing to bet that Kogan is also using a GPL-licensed Busybox along with their Linux kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am wondering now, does Kogan even make their phones or is it another company that Kogan pays and puts their name on it? In that case, kogan representatives would have no clue at all
I guess the exfat thing worked, hopefully Kogan will be compliant
Doesn't really matter. Kogan is distributing binaries that contain GPL code. If there's a contracted hardware/software manufacturer involved they're also responsible but Kogan still has to do a lot on their end. They must be having one of those "what the hell are we even doing moments" since they control so little of the process behind their business model.
If Kogan is just putting their name on it, they have to ask that manufacturer (which I assume is foreign) to provide the source for the software involved. Out of matters of sheer practicality and perceived language barriers, Kogan would then share these sources with the English-speaking world. The manufacturer could do this themselves, but whatever.
Quick update for those interested.
Re: http://www.zdnet.com/kogan-to-comply-with-gpl-requirements-for-android-source-7000022847/
1. Kogan have not contacted me at all to indicate that they intend to resolve their GPL infringement.
2. Kogan claimed they have only had one request for source code; this is completely false. As I mentioned in my original post, at least both myself and my friend have requested the source code for various devices. Since then I have also been contacted by a few others that requested the source code also.
3. Kogan claimed that I was requesting source-code for a brand new phone. Which they seem to be using as an excuse for why the source is not yet available. This is completely false, I actually requested the source-code for Dual-Core Kogan Agora phone. Which is the previous generation of Kogan Agora (compared to the Quad core model) and has been available for almost 12 months. In addition to this, I also requested the source-code for a Kogan Agora TV. This particular model of Android TV has only been available for around 3-4 months, I believe. However, other Kogan Android TVs have been available for around 6 months.
Re: Sending Kogan a notice of copyright infringement; still working on getting that sorted.
any update on this?
Hey Ben, have you heard any further from Kogan? I'm keen to get my hands on the gpl stuff for my 55" Agora (nee. Konka ) SmartTV but there seems to have been no movement besides an attempt by Kogan to quell any negative publicity over 6 weeks ago... despite them having shipped modified firmware on TVs that hit the country mid - December. ...
adr6ian said:
Hey Ben, have you heard any further from Kogan? I'm keen to get my hands on the gpl stuff for my 55" Agora (nee. Konka ) SmartTV but there seems to have been no movement besides an attempt by Kogan to quell any negative publicity over 6 weeks ago... despite them having shipped modified firmware on TVs that hit the country mid - December. ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny they lied their butts off in that article they did about it wrt who asked for it, how many asked for it and what they asked for. Not once did they reply to any of my emails from Ausdroid. We wanted to give them a chance to put their story in print but maybe I upset them ?
Ben did receive the source code. Not sure how public kogan have made this. Ie. Can anyone find it of their website or do they need to request it and then will get a private link?
I am yet to hear back from him as to whether the source actually works and builds the kernel correctly.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
MontAlbert said:
Funny they lied their butts off in that article they did about it wrt who asked for it, how many asked for it and what they asked for. Not once did they reply to any of my emails from Ausdroid. We wanted to give them a chance to put their story in print but maybe I upset them ?
Ben did receive the source code. Not sure how public kogan have made this. Ie. Can anyone find it of their website or do they need to request it and then will get a private link?
I am yet to hear back from him as to whether the source actually works and builds the kernel correctly.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
here's their public site
http://www.kogan.com/au/
MameTozhio said:
here's their public site
http://www.kogan.com/au/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And? So what? Everyone knows their public site. Where is the link to the source on their site?
Good on them for coming up with the source. I for one doubted they'd be able to get it. Chinese manufacturers tend to not give up the source often, if ever. But it shouldn't be hard to find if someone wants it.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
My Google foo is failing me, because I can't unearth a publicly linked version... closest I can find is the X 8000 series stuff on a Chinese forum, but the X 8000 is different enough from the v712 series based on specs that without the OEM firmware I'm not game to dabble with..
All I really want is to re enable the KKMULTISCR service that isn't active in the Kogan build but is present in all other re badged konka units such as the TCL and HiSense units and the Direct Sale v712 in NZ...
MontAlbert, if you have any suggestion feel free to PM me
I've mailed Kogan and formally requested the source, but I suspect I'll get a run around... maybe I'm cynical but
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
For those that are not yet informed, this is an important article as to how Google will proceed with the Android One program.
Android One 2nd Gen may be the last of it's kind in terms of a unified, inexpensive Android platform with top to bottom hardware and software standards.
Article Link
Cyntil8ing said:
For those that are not yet informed, this is an important article as to how Google will proceed with the Android One program.
Android One 2nd Gen may be the last of it's kind in terms of a unified, inexpensive Android platform with top to bottom hardware and software standards.
Article Link
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the original and very essence of the android one program will be marginalized and eventually die a natural death. long live the android one. apple has the last laugh. lol...
WSJ article, which is the source of the arstechnica oped, is paywalled. So I don't know for sure whether this is just a special exception made by Google for one particular market.
boborobo said:
WSJ article, which is the source of the arstechnica oped, is paywalled. So I don't know for sure whether this is just a special exception made by Google for one particular market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I sure hope that's true but, ARS Technica is usually dependable on their reporting and the chances of them omitting that detail's unlikely. Emerging and small economy OEMs are notorious for for pushing crap stock firmware and even worse security/update policies if any.
I hope google keeps pushing all OEMs to comply to a standard when it comes to security and updating instead of opting in. They've started implementing stricter policies regarding MM in that regard and I hope they keep following through in that direction. It's not like OEMs really have a choice if Google decided to implement higher standards.
Cyanogen OS CyanogenMod AND MAY SOON DISAPPEAR!
By Roman Vitt July 25, 2016
Share
tweet
+1
15
Itself as an alternative to Google on Android is not an easy task. Cyanogen Inc. is in the process of paying the price. The company is on the brink and could literally change strategy and subscribing Cyanogen CyanogenMod OS. Explanations.
Microsoft invests cyanogen against google
Cyanogen OS has established itself among the most popular alternative OS for Android users. Fluid, light and feature filled pushing the boundaries of the Android experience, he has built a strong community, composed mainly of high-tech enthusiasts.
But if the OS is recognized, the company that created it failed to monetize. Today she is in serious trouble to the point that it would set up an extensive redundancy scheme according to several US media.
But that's not all. Cyanogen Inc. thinks completely change his strategy to get its head above water. The problem is that this new strategy could lead to the disappearance of Cyanogen OS to focus mainly on applications.
Reality catches Cyanogen Inc
One wonders how Cyanogen OS could get there. There are 18 months as she had just signed a partnership with OnePlus, the company was at the top. Besides OnePlus was only the beginning because later other brands like Alcatel, Lenovo or Micromax have capitalized on Cyanogen OS. Giants like Microsoft or even Boxer even made a foray into the system by integrating their default applications.
In parallel, Cyanogenmod, the Custom ROM to the phenomenal success continued to seduce. But today, everything collapses, stable economic model fault. The alliance with Microsoft and the increase in mid-2015 capital have changed nothing. The latest projects Cyanogen Inc. does not experience the same success as its other products. In lack of money, Cyanogen Inc has no choice but to reduce spending.
And as the payroll is the most easily adjustable variable for a company that is 20% of the workforce should be dismissed according to Android Police and Re / code, effective in Palo Alto, Seattle, Lisbon and India.
The bad news is that these are teams that figure pillar which will have to leave. According to our colleagues, Cyanogen Inc would defatted Community support is THE big asset Cyanogen and the development teams of Cyanogenmod.
By downsizing for these activities, Cyanogen Inc is undoubtedly shoots itself in the foot. If these two segments do not generate direct and short-term income, they are pillars of business success.
The community and the alternative ROM are the two areas that have propelled the company as THE reference of the Android ROM without Google. But Cyanogen Inc has made a choice: lose some identity to continue to exist. The consequence would be the end of Cyanogen OS to refocus on applications, more profitable.
Towards the end of Cyanogen OS?
Also according to Re / code, and it's not a surprise, these layoffs would be part of a complete change of business strategy. To save more recipes, Cyanogen Inc have decided to abandon Cyanogen OS to concentrate on developing applications for customization and enhancement of the Android experience.
Exit therefore the creation and development of an alternative OS to Android. Too expensive, not profitable, a business model that is going nowhere for a startup. Especially as the updates cost a small fortune.
Read also: What differences between Cyanogen OS and Cyanogenmod?
The question is: if Cyanogen Inc abandoning its OS that he will happen to products already on the market and shipping the system? And above all, there there is a future for Cyanogenmod?
***follow us on Facebook
Google*Traduction pour les entreprises*:Google*Kit du traducteurGadget TraductionOutil d'aide à l'export
Thread closed, there is already a thread here.
Nathan
Forum Moderator