It probably happened a month ago and I am just noticing it today (Nov 23, 2009), but it's very welcome news. For past 4 years I've been using Windows Mobile, but really thrilled to now have my HTC Hero running Android. I'm just curious when the Development & Hacking forum structure was revamped to give Android completely equal footing to the formerly "mostly just Windows Mobile HTC site"?
I hope someone will answer this question before it gets plucked away and banished to "General Discussions"
Yea, it happened probably a month ago... XDA has never intended to be locked down to just one device manufacture. at the time of XDA's creation the leader in smart phones was HTC and thus we worked with only the best (htc phones). However, now that time has passed we are seeing other smartphones begin to rival even HTC's prior superiority.
While we don't know yet the future of XDA, we hope in the future we can find a way to still provided the best Mod, hack, dev support for your favourite cutting edge phone.
Since the android platform is pretty generic for most phones that run it, meaning they have alot of base principles that tie them together, this has been created, and other sub forums, to try and reach out to the Android side and offer a place to put their mods hack and ideas that may benefit the community.
Stericson
Stericson, thanks very much -- very helpful. It fits with the understanding I'd always had --- that the forum began for modding the device actually called the XDA, which was an HTC phone. And the dominant platform was Windows Mobile.
I have been happy to see how users, all over the site, have been adapting to and including Android phones (those put out by HTC) and Android OS... and how a larger and larger group of users have asked for what you've now given: An equal-weight approach to the Android platform as well as WindowsMobile.
XDA has never intended to be locked down to just one device manufacture. at the time of XDA's creation the leader in smart phones was HTC and thus we worked with only the best (htc phones). However, now that time has passed we are seeing other smartphones begin to rival even HTC's prior superiority.
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This is interesting to read because I have never seen it expressed here before now that XDA-Developers might (... might) begin to more officially support devices made other than by HTC. 9 out of 10 times when a new registrant comes to XDA and asks "where's the forum for the Droid?", and before that, "where are the forums for the Omnia?" and "SonyEricsson?", the answer given by users is "This site is about HTC phones only" usually followed by "read the frikkin' FAQ!"...
Pushing the inclusion-boundaries of XDA-Devs, to me, is a great thing.. and an almost necessary adaptation... as the game has changed dramatically post-iphone. Given that most people in WindowsMobile land equate XDA-Devs as the ultimate go-to source for any mods and hacks on that platform, several large and separate communities have emerged to fill in new concentration-areas with Android that have appeared to be "unsupported by" or "outside the scope of" XDA-Devs. But also gven that Android rooting & modding began happening here almost immediately since HTC produced the first phones, an Android expertise exists here.
To me, now is the time to decide: does XDA officially expand to embrace the other phone makers now releasing Android phones?
Thanks for answering my question. And if you want to move this thread to a more appropriate forum, please do.
In in this New year Your Question should be answered.
There will be New Non HTC devices added to the Forums, though not in Large Scale. We won't be supported all new Smartphones coming out.
And which, well that's still a discussion being had in the General Forum
I realise that this is very much a "how-long-is-a-piece-of-string" type question, but I'd really like to get some idea of the costs and time involved in developing an app for the Android market compared to the iPhone.
My understanding is that it doesn't cost developers to submit apps to the Android Marketplace (as opposed to the iPhone Developer’s Program which costs $99 a year). So there's a saving there.
But in terms of development costs, would you suggest that hiring a developer to create an Android app would be cheaper because the market's smaller? Would it make no difference at all? Would it be harder to find a developer to code for Android?
Basically, any thoughts anyone has on this would be really appreciated.
Cheers,
Why don't you try and find out? Ask some (android)developers what app x would cost and ask some (iphone)developers the same
for most applications it should be cheaper to hire an Android programmer because you develop in standard Java and this is the most widely used language in computer science education. Eclipse is also a standard development environment many young programmers are familiar with. Even I was able to code my first Android application in a matter of minutes.
Objective-C on the other side is a nieche language. Of course, every good progammer can learn that language in a couple of hours or at least days but there are definitly more experienced Java programmers out there and they can reuse code (snippets). Java code is so ubiqitous you can find for a lot of problems coded and tested solutions. So two reasons: there are much more Java programmers out there and they can develop faster. Specific Android experience is not needed as long as you don't want to program kernel extensions or things like that.
But I guess the Apple-market is still more profitable because Apple users are trained to spend money. So even as it may cost more to develop it also brings in more revenue. I hope the sheer amount of Android handsets out there will outweigh this advantage soon.
Humm .. i think this is a tricky question.
While it will definitely be cheaper to develop an application for android, the question you might want to ask (depending on what you want to do) is what is the ROI of an Android application versus and IOS application.
And even then, depending on the type of application & the demographic your app will be targeting (not to mention usability, design, general app quality) the response will likely vary quite a bit too.
But globally yeah, it's cheaper and less a hassle to make an android app i'd say. ..then again, i have an allergy to apples, and this is an android forum after all
robert_tlse said:
Humm .. i think this is a tricky question.
While it will definitely be cheaper to develop an application for android, the question you might want to ask (depending on what you want to do) is what is the ROI of an Android application versus and IOS application.
And even then, depending on the type of application & the demographic your app will be targeting (not to mention usability, design, general app quality) the response will likely vary quite a bit too.
But globally yeah, it's cheaper and less a hassle to make an android app i'd say. ..then again, i have an allergy to apples, and this is an android forum after all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe, I agree on that Robert.
ten chars!!!
You can also spend many months developing an iPhone app, only to have it rejected by Apple for no good reason. That's quite expensive.
It is, however, unescapable that there are a lot of iOS users who buy a lot of apps from the App Store, so the potential ROI is higher. There's also only a few platforms to develop for (although this is becoming increasingly less the case).
Would like for Android to have more focus though; it's getting there!
(The diminutive term "app" does irk me slightly - Apple have popularised it in relation to phones when they convinced everyone that the iPhone was the first phone to support third-party software. Guess it's stuck now though.)
then why are Android apps more expensive??
Android apps aren't more expensive. They have by far the largest proportion of free apps on any mobile platform and even those that do cost are comparatively cheap.
Android will probably be easier and cheaper to develop for..the only concern people have with Android is fragmentation...aka when developing you gotta decide which versions and up to develop for and choose the appropriate functions for the documentation. Of course in the end all the old devices will upgrade eventually and be compatible anyways..
My hope is though Apple lets 3rd party development tools back in...cause that way you can use Adobe AIR and make an App for both Android and iPhone at the same time....How I wish for cross platform app development...but Apple will fight it till the and cause if they don't they will loose one of their biggest advantages...
In my opinion Android is just now getting to the average joe especially in the United States. Older people are even trying the droid line of devices since there are so many to choose from now on all carriers (vs 1 iphone on AT&T forever just revised of course) So yeah, even people here in hicksville, MO USA are even trying it out go figure. If everyone hasn't heard of HTC or Android, they're definitely being introduced to it now through the Galaxy S series since it's on almost all carriers and has some snazzy media buzz.
With all these new cells and tablets coming out I give it a mere 2-3years and everyone will know our lil green droid dude globally, and use it on multiple devices around the house. Just my theory. I'm sure the Marketplace will grow 10/fold in that time, peace!
I guess there are a few things to keep in mind:
Politics:
1) Apple tries to regulate what is permitted to be installed on their phones. They don't provide any real guidelines, nor do they tell you in advance if your application will be accepted. You'll only discover after submitting your app that it isn't permitted. So they waste your time, and numerous high end projects have developed their application only to discover Apple blocks them because "they are duplicating functionality" *cough competing*. Yes, lots of money has been lost.
2) Apple is Non-Disclosure Agreement overload. Send an email to apple and it always says "this information is confidential". Basically, Apple's agreement is so bad (unless it's changed recently) that they can cancel the account/sue you any time they wish. That increases your risk further.
3) iPhone's can be jail-broken to install 3rd party apps, but many people wont. Even if the Google store wont accept your app, they can manually install it, or you can use another store... Without jailbreaking.
4) Many developers often complain of long delays getting their apps approved, and when removed from the store by Apple, they have to flood Apple with emails for reason's why. On android, you don't even need to use the App store, in fact, Android has the benefit of allowing paid apps to be sold in countries with export restrictions (because they can sell it via other means).
5) Piracy is possibly more rife on Android, however, Google are apparently implementing an API which allows apps to check if they were purchased for that phone, which should strongly reduce piracy once available (because it means that dodgy stores will need to actually crack the programs). Once this is implemented, hopefully it will stop the jackass spammers from selling pirated stuff.
Development Process:
1) iPhones use objective C, Android uses Dalvik. Dalvik is VERY similar to java, one simply needs to learn the differences. Objective C is also quite easy to learn though, but it probably takes more experience to do well (because c++ doesn't have the idea of selectors). If you try creating apps on the iPhones without using objective C originally though, your app might be removed. On android, frankly, Google doesn't give a damn provided, it works.
2) Big win for Android here, the Android SDK works on Linux,Windows AND OSX. It integrates with eclipse which already has a large user-base. Whereas, you need to buy a mac for code for the iPhone, and the SDK is OSX only.
3) That being said, you can make a cross-platform webapp that can be sold for both, but the user needs to be online.
4) Objective C is compiled code, whilst Java is bytecode. Bytecode can run as fast as compiled (with some initial overhead). Native sounds great, but if Apple ever does a processor change for their phones, it might be a world of hurt. If massively-multicore mobile processors are released, Android is probably better suited. That being said, by then, you'll probably need to fix some things in your app anyway because of API changes.
Actual sales:
1) Apparently in the past, you would have sold more in the Apple market. However, in the past, Android mobiles were actually quite rare because Android stunk. Froyo is probably the first Android OS that can compete against iOS effectively because it now supports JIT. There is also a much greater emphasis on Android these days in advertising, and I see more Android advertising than iPhone. Possibly inaccurate predictions suggest they will overtake the iPhone in 2012 too.
2) Sales figures don't represent profit though (so whilst iOS may generate more still, it's less than Apple claims). A google market account costs $25, whereas an Apple iPhone development account costs $99. Furthermore, you need Apple equipment to code for the Apple market (which can be significantly more expensive than PC's), and there is no estimates done to determine profits lost by being rejected from the Apple app store (there have been major projects which cost thousands to develop which have been rejected). So greater overheads on the Apple store, which means for cheap/quick apps, you are probably safer developing for Android (especially if you don't already own a mac).
My opinion:
For me, developing major apps is too high risk for iPhones. Although, if your app is approved, there are potentially bigger payoffs than Android. For small apps which don't have a predictable further, you may earn more on Android because of lower overheads. If you app is rejected for iPhone though for competing, you wasted weeks/months of your life, and need to use a 3rd party store (since only hacked phones can use them though, you dramatically decrease your sales instantly).
Anyway, my thoughts are that by the end of the year, everyone will know what Android is, and you may start to see manufacturers getting together to launch MAJOR campaigns to promote Android, especially since they now all have a common enemy (Apple basically took a cheapshot at other major manufacturers to justify their design flaw). Apple is only a small guy when it comes to manufacturing phones, and so it's as though they threw a few tiny pebbles at a team of football players to show off. Of course, some of those football players have already started retaliating, and it just depends on how annoyed they got.
Personally, I think iPhone would be great if they didn't do the "anti-competitive" thing they always do, but as it stands, I am now doing my Oracle/Sun SCJP, and hope to get into Android coding soon. If Apple starts acting less evil though, I will take another look in their direction, but they are mistreating the users they need the most, the developers. It's a pity, because Apple really has potential.
Source: I haven't sold any apps on either market yet, but I have mostly decided on developing for Android.
Developing new iPhone app looking for developer
I have a cool iPhone app idea it's a very simple game that I could like to create I am looking for a developer in the Los angeles area I am new here so please if your interested or can redirect me to the right person I would appreciate it thank you...email me with any info
http://www.cyanogenmod.com/blog/the-state-of-cyanogenmod
The State of CyanogenMod
August 21st, 2011
kmobs
6
I’ve been reading rumors that CyanogenMod’s core philosophy is changing, that we’ve been sold, or that we’ve given up and I want to go on record saying none of this is true at all. As you may know, there are only a handful of people that can approve changes for CM but a lot of developers for it. You may have noticed that we are operating at a slightly slower pace than normal, but that’s simply because we’ve been busy and real life responsibilities come before this project. No one is getting paid to work on the product.
You have most likely become aware that Cyanogen has been hired by Samsung, as that news is traveling through the Android community like wildfire. He is not leaving the project. Samsung is aware of his involvement in CM and there are no qualms from that end. He hasn’t been active recently because he is in the process of relocating to a new city for his new job, that’s all. ChrisSoyars has been hired by Grooveshark and is currently working on projects with them. Koush is working on his DeskSMS application as well as ClockworkMod recovery. And finally, my semester is starting as are my medical school interviews.
As they have before, our insane schedules will calm eventually and we can devote more time to the project. But just because we aren’t around to approve changes doesn’t mean development has stopped or even slowed for CM. There are 40+ talented developers programming behind the scenes night and day to give you the Android distribution that you have come to know and love. On top of all of the above, we are currently in a soft feature-freeze for another 7.1 RC. (You can call it a feature slushie if you like) Because of this, we are reluctant to approve new features that may prove problematic for certain devices for the sake of the stability of the entire tree.
All I ask is that you bear with us during this hectic time.
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This decision may come as a surprise to some of our readers, particularly given the sales figures posted by Samsung for recent product launches such as the flagship Galaxy S3 and Note II. Nonetheless, this year, the XDA Developers’ OEM of the Year is Sony Mobile.
The relationship between XDA and Sony has been frosty in the past, thanks in part to the locking of bootloaders, subsequent lack of updates, and Sony’s efforts in early 2011 to target open source community “developers” with lawsuits in other product categories (such as the Playstation 3). This resulted in many top developers turning a blind eye to anything and everything Sony. They eventually dropped the suit later on in the year, but that was no consolation to the community.
Despite these events, a change was signaled in September of 2011, when Sony’s Head of Developer Relations posted a notice to the community that they supported independent Android OS developers. Then in early 2012, Sony Mobile released the Sony Xperia S, the first Sony Android phone to be released with flagship-level specs. Soon after, Sony signaled a change in their stance towards open source development by releasing a guide for unlocking the bootloader on the Xperia S and then releasing not only the kernel source code but also a guide for building it.
In just over 12 months, they had gone from suing a developer that hacked the bootloader on his own purchased device, to providing the tools to unlock the bootloader on a high-quality device and giving users the instructions to build the kernel source. No other manufacturer had done that, nor have any others to date. That is full-on GPLv2 compliance like we’ve never seen before at XDA.
Here is a list of the other steps they took towards openness in the community in 2012:
In March Sony officially released a public beta of ICS for the Xperia Play when no other manufacturer was officially releasing betas.
In April Sony released ICS for their entire 2011 line of devices, becoming the first manufacturer to do so.
Their Sony Developer Relations team announced a program to allow developers to borrow devices for application testing.
In August the Sony Xperia S became the first non-Nexus device (not counting the Motorola Xoom) to be included in the AOSP device tree as an experimental device. They then followed that up by releasing the AOSP binaries for the Xperia S.
Later in August Sony began open-sourcing their own code for the Dynamic Android Sensor Hardware Abstraction Layer (DASH for short) to the community.
In October they joined XDA at the Big Android BBQ to discuss their plans for further open source interaction in the community.
They announced they would be taking the lead for the AOSP source for the Xperia S and manage it themselves in their own github, and begin merging in Android 4.2.
They continue to utilize their highly active development blog where their developer team discusses their views on Android, and announce preview “Alpha” and “Beta” builds of updated device firmware and seek user feedback.
CyanogenMod custom firmware distribution is maintained for several Sony devices by a number of Sony Mobile developers, in their own time.
Given the recent trend by companies such as Samsung to often overlook the custom ROM developer community (in favor of application developers), it is refreshing to see Sony going far beyond what is required to improve the experience of their devices for anyone interested in developing for the platform. Given their contributions to the Android community-at-large in 2012 alone, and their complete turn around in less than 16 months, Sony is XDA’s OEM of the Year for 2012!
If you’re looking for a couple great options for Sony devices, we recommend the Xperia S or the Xperia T.
Now, what we really want to hear is YOUR top OEM for 2012. Vote below to let us know!
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The link
The only thing holding me back from this device is the locked boot loader:crying:
Pretty sure one major reason why LG won't make the bootloader open is the exclusive game and software contracts they have on this phone with certain service providers in Asia.
The funny thing about Sony, and other companies, is that they will only release a bootloader like this if someone is not willing to pay to keep it closed. So the praise for Sony here is a bit misplaced, to put it like that. Generally rooted phones receive a limited amount of support afterwards, simply because they believe they don't earn any money on them afterwards.
I.e., the only reason Sony does something like this isn't because they will design their own software shell to operate with other shells. Instead it's for two reasons:
1. They're 100% confident that rooted shells are inferior to theirs, and is locked down in certain ways that makes it useless as far as replacing the original one.
2. They realize that an extremely small number of people actually do root their phones or use a custom kernel.
Now, if they came out and said: "We have a sales philsophy that isn't tied to the locked down shell, and instead one that is focused on the device and the features of the device only. While the software we have can be used interchangeably with other shells, because of the way it's designed from the bottom up to do so - and we encourage the community to create their variants of the surrounding software package". If they did that, they'd deserve praise.
Something like this - well, that's about the same level as praising a mugger for telling you where he's going to fence your stuff.
UIQrules said:
Pretty sure one major reason why LG won't make the bootloader open is the exclusive game and software contracts they have on this phone with certain service providers in Asia.
The funny thing about Sony, and other companies, is that they will only release a bootloader like this if someone is not willing to pay to keep it closed. So the praise for Sony here is a bit misplaced, to put it like that. Generally rooted phones receive a limited amount of support afterwards, simply because they believe they don't earn any money on them afterwards.
I.e., the only reason Sony does something like this isn't because they will design their own software shell to operate with other shells. Instead it's for two reasons:
1. They're 100% confident that rooted shells are inferior to theirs, and is locked down in certain ways that makes it useless as far as replacing the original one.
2. They realize that an extremely small number of people actually do root their phones or use a custom kernel.
Now, if they came out and said: "We have a sales philsophy that isn't tied to the locked down shell, and instead one that is focused on the device and the features of the device only. While the software we have can be used interchangeably with other shells, because of the way it's designed from the bottom up to do so - and we encourage the community to create their variants of the surrounding software package". If they did that, they'd deserve praise.
Something like this - well, that's about the same level as praising a mugger for telling you where he's going to fence your stuff.
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Click to collapse
Well you are actually misguided on this one. Sony's Developer Relations team does not want any of their device's bootloader locked - it's the carriers who desire them locked. At the executive level, Sony has to deal with misperception that unlocked bootloader == rooted phone. They are slowly changing that mindset, but it's an uphill battle. There are a large number of Sony devices capable of being unlocked, and they go to great lengths to make sure they help the user do it.
What will always be a struggle is the carrier's and their hold on the industry. Once that hold gets loosened, then we'll see a lot more positive things.
Hello,
I am new to the forum.
I (not so recently) purchased a ProX-1 phone with Lineage OS on the Indiegogo crowdfunding platform and look forward to (finally) receiving it. (Crowdfunding is not for the faint of heart). I've never used Lineage OS before and I'm really not that technically savvy. Savvy?
Pro1 X Smartphone Functionality, Choice & Control
A keyboard smartphone purposely designed for functionality, running Android, Lineage or Ubuntu. | Check out 'Pro1 X Smartphone Functionality, Choice & Control' on Indiegogo.
www.indiegogo.com
Anyway, I saw that FIDO standard passwordless sign-in was coming from Apple, Microsoft and Google later this year.
Apple, Google and Microsoft Commit to Expanded Support for FIDO Standard to Accelerate Availability of Passwordless Sign-Ins - FIDO Alliance
Faster, easier and more secure sign-ins will be available to consumers across leading devices and platforms Mountain View, California, MAY 5, 2022 – In a joint effort to make the web […]
fidoalliance.org
One step closer to a passwordless future
Over the next year all major device platforms have committed to building in support for passwordless FIDO Sign-in standards.
blog.google
And I posted a thread in the General forum asking a few questions related to passwordless sign-in and Lineage OS. Hopefully, I put that thread in the right place and did not duplicate an existing thread. Moderators will fix it, I assume, if I did.
I've never been much of a forum person, but that could change since soon (I hope!) I will receive a phone with Lineage OS and I know nothing about Lineage OS.
Hugh Mann
Lineage OS noob, future ProX-1 owner now with a really old Android phone on its last legs, and creator of a cool forum alias