Database Develop

TY TN II review

After over one year of use I just wanted to write few lines about my impression of this PDA.
I travel a lot and I thought that a PDA could be helpful to keep in touch and do the IT chores while on the go. I was very wrong and I regret having bought the damn thing. The device tries to do many things but none of them well. In retrospective it sounded too good to be true.
At the beginning I did make a point of using it to its best potential but after a while I got so tired and annoyed with it that I have used it mostly like just any other phone.
I thought I would give myself some time to get accustomed to the complexity of the device before jumping to conclusions.
Over one year later and I still find it incredibly cumbersome and totally user unfriendly. The guys at HTC should go to Apple to get a crush course in making something user friendly.
Here are just a few things. The list is way longer but I would have to go back and try most functions to recall all the flaws.
- It's super slow. I am no super fast teenage geek but I am always waiting for the stupid thing to react to any command I give. It is very annoying and it's like stepping back to the time of the 286 PCs. The speed is archaic.
- The buttons controls are very difficult to feel with the touch and are very cumbersome to operate. Especially the side ones. I am sure that even blind people would have problems using them.
- Windows mobile is as bad as Microsoft gets. It's slow, counter intuitive, user unfriendly. Early Vista at the power of ten!
- Window media player is a joke. I have been using the PDA to listen to music in the car and it's a miracle I have not crashed while trying to select some music yet.
- The touch screen is also very bad and difficult to use. A lot of the commands are way too small for a man's finger. It is very difficult to select something on first attempt.
- To open a running program is difficult. One has to press the top right menu and than select what is running by touch only. The bar is about 4 mm high and it's very difficult to select using one hand. One cannot select by using the scroll bar and button.
- During phone calls the screen goes out quickly and to get it back one has to look for the hidden button on the side, very bad.
- Voice recognition sucks. Since the controls are so bad I now use the voice recognition most times. It's rare that the damn machine get it right on first attempt. Repeating the name twice helps but not always. I end up having to raise the tone as if I was yelling. Very embarrassing in public.
- The GPS take a long time to get the satellites even when the data has been updated.
- Active sync is a disaster. The guy that design it should be shot. I have given up on it altogether. I had to buy small software to access the data in the PDA and memory card.
Active sync could just not do the most elementary operation in a simple and straightforward way.
- The booting upon starting is the longest I have ever seen. Switching it off is also a chore
The list goes on but I am getting annoyed just to think about it all. This is the first and last product I’ll ever buy from HTC. Unless you are a geek that gets pleasure messing with IT devices do not buy it. Its use will take an unhealthy amount of your time. It will not help your life, it will waste a lot of your time and annoy you in the process.
Stay away from it!

My phone works perfect, it is a delight to use, does everything you mentioned above, great to reasonably well. It is fast, user friendly and I can't wait until I can upgrade to the TP II
My advice to you, since you are clueless, get the ipod that makes phone calls, it is built and over marketed especially for clueless people.

Agreed with denco7,
My HTC Kaiser (TyTn II) is also working fine. It is a great QVGA 2.8" phone!
ActiveSync works and simply works, I have never got any issue like you described.
GPS works, although TT7 is slower than TT6, but thats TT problem, not the phone.
I found Opera Mini works briliant with the D-Pad, which is much better than D-Pad-less phone. You know, press button to zoom, back to unzoom, scroll with D-Pad ... all one handed.
Screen goes out during call? Get a clue You knew this website, it should be the best resource.
My suggestion, dont use PDA Because it might be too complicated for you.

I like my TyTN II.
Maybe some of the things you think missed, you could configure them another way to get the most of the device. I think I'll never finish to get more and more from it. And I exhausted a P4350 before changing to the Kaiser.

denco7 said:
My phone works perfect, it is a delight to use, does everything you mentioned above, great to reasonably well. It is fast, user friendly and I can't wait until I can upgrade to the TP II
My advice to you, since you are clueless, get the ipod that makes phone calls, it is built and over marketed especially for clueless people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The PDA was also used by a friend of mine who is a blackberry user and talented software developer with many years of experience in IT. He did notice the same things and at times the thing did drive him crazy too.
My friend is also a guy that has switched to Linux long time ago. I have been too lazy and suffered in silence with MS crap but hopefully I will find the time to invest in changing for the better.
My friend impressions made me realize that I am not clueless as you say. In fact being a marine engineer I have dealt with equipment of all sorts for many years.
The PDA is designed by geeks for geeks. It is not a product for normal people. Anybody that buys this device has to spend many, many hours tying to sort it out and make it work better. I did that at the beginning and downloaded many fixes and upgrades. The very existance of this website and the number of people that use it is an indication that this PDA is not a product you switch on and just use. Very far from it.
I think you are like many people that after spending all that money don't want to admit that they got a lemon. The fact that you want to upgrade is a clear indication that you are not that satisfied with the gadget.
Just pick it up and slide the keyboard slightly. It takes 4.8 sec for the display to go from vertical to horizontal and back. If that is fast then you must be very slow.
Cheers

Yeah I also suggest you get an iphone. It's for people just like you.
No customization and power-user options, but your grandma can figure out the basic PDA functions.
TytnII has been great for me.

This is a negative and boring thread from the op! With some effort you can do a lot with the tytn2 as well as the tytn1! Very good devices!

I very much enjoy my Kaiser. I had some of the problems the OP had when I was running the AT&T stock ROM (with bloatware), but all that changed when I started using custom ROMs. The Kaiser is actually a very capable device, the only reason it underperforms is because it's hardware isn't fully taken advantage of (but even that's improving now). Once I flash a ROM and spend a whole 10 minutes customizing the device to how I like it, it runs like a dream.
OP: As the others have said in this thread, if you aren't willing to tweak the device, and customize the living crap out of it in order to get a faster Kaiser, maybe a feature phone or iPhone would be more suitable for you.
Dave
PS: (I have a 286, and it runs fine!)

I have a tytn, tytnII, titan, touch pro and a fuze. I must admit that every one of these devices were less than spectacular in the as-shipped form from the service provider. Thats why I found this site so I could make them all perform up to their hype.
Every one of them, thanks to the wonderful developers here, will outperform an iphown now. I have had very little problems like the OP described that were not simply fixed by changing a setting here or there. I like my tilt better than any of the others I have had (except the fuze.)

My 8525 (TyTn) works great and it has less power than the TyTnII. You can not get the most out of the phone unless you get rid of the stock OS. That's why XDA Devs rocks. Once the stock OS is gone - the phones rock!

mikechannon said:
This is the Kaiser forum. A forum dedicated to supporting Kaiser owners and providing answers to specific problems.
I'm sure you can see that this is not a supportive thread for TyTn II owners.
I'm not actually sure that expressing views about strongly disliking HTC and WM is a wise idea on a website dedicated to both those things.
However, and lest I be accused of wielding evil Moderator censorship powers, I will move this thread to off-topic. There it will take up its place accumulating wise and sensible contributions to the debate.
Mike
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Hi Mike,
It's not about being supportive or not. It's about giving a broad range of perspective so if tomorrow somebody wants to buy the device they can search for information and have a better idea of what they are getting into.
Unfortunately at the time I bought mine the information available was somehow biased towards people who think that is ok to spend 750 $ for a gadget that right away needs all sorts of non OEM twicks and upgrades to perform close to its marketing claims.
In any sector or product if one buys at the very top end of the price range should expect to end up with something that works well right away.
The TY TN II does not. HTC is a company with great potential but it should take a lot longer before releasing a product such this.
I belive that censorship does not help the people behind this site that are happy with the product either. My post is not off topic. They are first hand comments on the device from somebody that owns one, just like anybody else here.
Because of lack of unbiased information many people like me or even less prepared to mess with the device will buy it and up here nagging everyone else for help. Even for the silliest problems.
Let's be clear. This is a very niche product, HTC marketing pitch is misleading. It is not a piece of consumer goods suitable for the majority of people. It has to become a pet project for the buyer otherwise will not delivery to it's full potential.
I would suggest you put this thread in a very accessible location.
I am sorry if have hurt any TY TN II lovers
I suspect that a lot of people here see the device like their own baby.
Cheers

gogol said:
Agreed with denco7,
My HTC Kaiser (TyTn II) is also working fine. It is a great QVGA 2.8" phone!
ActiveSync works and simply works, I have never got any issue like you described.
GPS works, although TT7 is slower than TT6, but thats TT problem, not the phone.
I found Opera Mini works briliant with the D-Pad, which is much better than D-Pad-less phone. You know, press button to zoom, back to unzoom, scroll with D-Pad ... all one handed.
Screen goes out during call? Get a clue You knew this website, it should be the best resource.
My suggestion, dont use PDA Because it might be too complicated for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want to get this thread to go on and on. The purpose of my post is to just offer an alternative perspective on the PDA. Without it, anybody that stumbles on this site may be lead to think that it is a great PDA. Indeed it is for people that are willing, knowledgeable and happy to mess with it. I don't think that the majority of people fit that category.
I believe that most people when they spend top dollars expect to buy a piece of equipment that works at its best right out of the box. After all PDAs and many other gadgets should make life easier not more complicated. That is something often forgotten.
Your appreciation of Active Sync sounds very odd to my engineering mind always appreciating things that work in a simple and logic manner. I'll comment on this one because is one of my "favorite" about the device and MS.
How can Active Sync be good if you have to install it in every computer you have to exchange data with (actually you can only install it on 2 PCs only!!). That to me is totally counter intuitive, user unfriendly and simply stupid. I should be able to roam the world and exchange data with any PC and Macs by just plugging in without having to install anything. That's what happens with most other gadgets cameras etc. How is it possible that a 750 $ device cannot do such elementary thing out of the box. It's simply unbelievable and as I said very odd to see that there are so many people that are totally fine with it and actually like the feature.
The TY TN II and any top end PDAs also cater to people like me that travel extensively and to different countries. How such elementary need to exchange data in a simple way can be overseen???
If I had know that such basic feature was not available I would never have bought the thing. The problem is that this any many other points about the device are some kind of dirty secrets that are not been told and were not available when I was about to buy the device.
Luckily I found Softick Card Export and solved the problem of accessing the PDA with any computer as if it was an external hard drive. I recommend it.
But again, after I spent 750 $ I should not have to buy and install non OEM software to download a file to a friend computer.
Come on guys, MS does not even pay you! You are paying them!

mikechannon said:
Well yes in the interests of allowing different points of view, the thread has been kept, we are all entitled to a reasoned point of view.
However IMHO it is off-topic in the sense that keeping it in the TyTn II forum which is specifically to provide help for those who already have a TyTn II would be inappropriate. I did consider the General forum, but againthat is for those who already own an HTC phone and are seeking support perhaps for Windows Mobile issues.
So by elimination if nothing else "off-topic" was the choice. Those searching the likes of Google will still find it regardless of the forum it's in.
I still have my doubts that this is appropriate as a forum to choose for such a review/feedback because it can encourage flaming type posts. I'm sure you know what I mean - would you go to a Rolls Royce owners site to express your views about why they are not good cars? Maybe you would, but I think it would be better to choose a site that reviews different brands, rather than telling folk who already own the product that you think what they have is no good. I doubt folk trying to choose a product would consider a dedicated site to be an unbiased place to gather reliable reviews.
Mike
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Click to collapse
Mike,
I happen to be one of those Rolls Royce owners (I wish!) that's why I think I should have a say on this site. My views are counter current that's all. I don't feel undermined here despite being a totally "visible minority". If people were to get inflamed about it then there is always the almighty moderator that should straighten things out.
I still think my post does not belong to the off topic section because I think the view of somebody like myself can be beneficial to the majority here. I know that this could be difficult to acknowledge for somebody.
On the wake of the recent purchase and proud of my shiny new device, in the first 6 months of ownership of the Ty TN II I was like most other people here, reading, downloading, twicking. After a while I realized that what I was doing was going against the very reason I bought the device in the first place which was make my life easier and make me save time.
At that point and tired of the constant work that the machine demanded I gave up on it. I bought a new laptop and used the PDA like a phone and navigator only.
If I had found posts like mine before I would have made my natural progression earlier and I would have saved myself a lot of time and headaches.
I am sure there are other people in that position and they should be able to benefit from opinions like mine without having to Google them. To the hard core PDArers it should make no difference. I understand there is a pleasure in molding a machine to you own specification. I respect that; years ago I would have kept on doing it.
I hope you understand my plea and thanks for your work. I and many others did benefit from this great site.
Unfortunately I don't think that I can ethically contribute to the HTC or MS cause in a positive way. The fact that they created the need for a site like this is totally unacceptable.
I believe that it is wrong to offer volunteer work to greedy corporations that totally don't give a damn about their customer base. HTC and MS are clear examples.
I wish the talented work of people like XDA-developers will go towards developing software and service for no profit organizations and not to patch up the shortcomings and disservice of these corporations.
Bill Gates has become a philanthropist to wash his sins. I hope his example will be followed by all the other big fish in the corporate world.
Cheers

olliric said:
I don't want to get this thread to go on and on. The purpose of my post is to just offer an alternative perspective on the PDA. Without it, anybody that stumbles on this site may be lead to think that it is a great PDA. Indeed it is for people that are willing, knowledgeable and happy to mess with it. I don't think that the majority of people fit that category.
I believe that most people when they spend top dollars expect to buy a piece of equipment that works at its best right out of the box. After all PDAs and many other gadgets should make life easier not more complicated. That is something often forgotten.
Your appreciation of Active Sync sounds very odd to my engineering mind always appreciating things that work in a simple and logic manner. I'll comment on this one because is one of my "favorite" about the device and MS.
How can Active Sync be good if you have to install it in every computer you have to exchange data with (actually you can only install it on 2 PCs only!!). That to me is totally counter intuitive, user unfriendly and simply stupid. I should be able to roam the world and exchange data with any PC and Macs by just plugging in without having to install anything. That's what happens with most other gadgets cameras etc. How is it possible that a 750 $ device cannot do such elementary thing out of the box. It's simply unbelievable and as I said very odd to see that there are so many people that are totally fine with it and actually like the feature.
The TY TN II and any top end PDAs also cater to people like me that travel extensively and to different countries. How such elementary need to exchange data in a simple way can be overseen???
If I had know that such basic feature was not available I would never have bought the thing. The problem is that this any many other points about the device are some kind of dirty secrets that are not been told and were not available when I was about to buy the device.
Luckily I found Softick Card Export and solved the problem of accessing the PDA with any computer as if it was an external hard drive. I recommend it.
But again, after I spent 750 $ I should not have to buy and install non OEM software to download a file to a friend computer.
Come on guys, MS does not even pay you! You are paying them!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, you're saying that with any other phone you can just connect it to a PC and transfer all the data on the fly? Well, with nokias you can't, you have to install the huge nokia pc suite. At least active sync is only a few megs, so even with a slow connection you can still get it fast. And, i still think active sync is the best or at least the simplest way to synchronize contacts / appointments / notes and emails.
If you want to exchange files i would advice to forget active sync, use a micro sd card reader, it's much simpler and faster.
About your first post, i understand your frustration, but everyone here will tell you, including me, that any windows mobile device is way more powerfull than any nokia, iphone or blackberry. But even with those you still have to know how to use them.

jaugusto said:
So, you're saying that with any other phone you can just connect it to a PC and transfer all the data on the fly? Well, with nokias you can't, you have to install the huge nokia pc suite. At least active sync is only a few megs, so even with a slow connection you can still get it fast. And, i still think active sync is the best or at least the simplest way to synchronize contacts / appointments / notes and emails.
If you want to exchange files i would advice to forget active sync, use a micro sd card reader, it's much simpler and faster.
About your first post, i understand your frustration, but everyone here will tell you, including me, that any windows mobile device is way more powerfull than any nokia, iphone or blackberry. But even with those you still have to know how to use them.
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Click to collapse
In this day and age am I too demanding to expect to be able to read and exchange data with my PDA and any computer? The fact that the very little Softick card export software does it very easily shows that I am not asking much. There are no technological hurdles whatsoever. Why having to complicate things, switching off the device, pulling cards on and off, maybe damaging something in the process.
It is one of the features I needed right away and I don't think I am alone there. It should not take a great deal of imagination or creativity to figure this out. What are the HTC or MS designers been thinking?
I just don't see any good reasons for the lack of such basic features. The only reason I see is corporate greed that calls for gadgets and software that don't quite work so people keep on buying new ones.
We are a bunch of consumer cows being milked, I am afraid that's the sad reality.
The fact the the potential of a MS based PDA is greater than the competition does not make me feel any better. However, thanks for trying to help and for the kind words

olliric said:
In this day and age am I too demanding to expect to be able to read and exchange data with my PDA and any computer? The fact that the very little Softick card export software does it very easily shows that I am not asking much. There are no technological hurdles whatsoever. Why having to complicate things, switching off the device, pulling cards on and off, maybe damaging something in the process.
It is one of the features I needed right away and I don't think I am alone there. It should not take a great deal of imagination or creativity to figure this out. What are the HTC or MS designers been thinking?
I just don't see any good reasons for the lack of such basic features. The only reason I see is corporate greed that calls for gadgets and software that don't quite work so people keep on buying new ones.
We are a bunch of consumer cows being milked, I am afraid that's the sad reality.
The fact the the potential of a MS based PDA is greater than the competition does not make me feel any better. However, thanks for trying to help and for the kind words
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I prefer to think that technology is being developed, rather than big companies are just "milking us". Every new product is an evolution from something done before, not only with technology, but with everything manufactured in the capitalist markets we live in.
Basically, i think we have two choices: ware out our equipment untill we really need a new one (in case of a mobile phone for me i would say that it's about 3 years), or sell our semi-new equipment and buy a new one every year or so. I usually choose the first one, but i'm not always sure that it is the cheapest.
About speed, I know that the tytn II's are far from being the best phone HTC made, heck, my old magician (qtek s110) was way faster. But it didn't have to deal with gps, wifi, 3G, HSDPA, hardware keyboard, etc. They're only three years apart from each other, and look at the differences!
I actually agree with you that the kaiser is slow for a 2007 PDA, but it can do a lot. So, like everyone else in this forum, i've been reading, and trying, and failing, and trying again. The best Rom i've tried is shifu's v8, i do like it a lot. And the advantage of WM is that you can really do everything you want to change the look and the way you interact with your phone, and there are thousands of programs to do whatever you need your phone to do.
There's so many software out there, that it is hard to get to the best one for you. Some prefer SPB Mobile Shell3, i prefer Manila 2D. There's also the new Titanium in WM 6.5, PointUI, Throttle Launcher.... I compare this situation to the photography industry: there are hundreds of camera models, most of them give very similar image quality for the same price, but if you visit photography forums you'll find people that just can't get used to a certain model of a certain brand, and normally for reasons you wouldn't even think of.
That doesn't turn that model into a lemon, but usually makes it more special to the ones that actually like it.
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Just trying to help, as i don't consider myself a geek, but i do prefer windows mobile over symbian.

jaugusto said:
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually yes the BBs do USB File transfer when plugged into a PC with nothing extra installed. You get prompted on the device to enable Mass Storage Mode.

jaugusto said:
I prefer to think that technology is being developed, rather than big companies are just "milking us". Every new product is an evolution from something done before, not only with technology, but with everything manufactured in the capitalist markets we live in.
Basically, i think we have two choices: ware out our equipment untill we really need a new one (in case of a mobile phone for me i would say that it's about 3 years), or sell our semi-new equipment and buy a new one every year or so. I usually choose the first one, but i'm not always sure that it is the cheapest.
About speed, I know that the tytn II's are far from being the best phone HTC made, heck, my old magician (qtek s110) was way faster. But it didn't have to deal with gps, wifi, 3G, HSDPA, hardware keyboard, etc. They're only three years apart from each other, and look at the differences!
I actually agree with you that the kaiser is slow for a 2007 PDA, but it can do a lot. So, like everyone else in this forum, i've been reading, and trying, and failing, and trying again. The best Rom i've tried is shifu's v8, i do like it a lot. And the advantage of WM is that you can really do everything you want to change the look and the way you interact with your phone, and there are thousands of programs to do whatever you need your phone to do.
There's so many software out there, that it is hard to get to the best one for you. Some prefer SPB Mobile Shell3, i prefer Manila 2D. There's also the new Titanium in WM 6.5, PointUI, Throttle Launcher.... I compare this situation to the photography industry: there are hundreds of camera models, most of them give very similar image quality for the same price, but if you visit photography forums you'll find people that just can't get used to a certain model of a certain brand, and normally for reasons you wouldn't even think of.
That doesn't turn that model into a lemon, but usually makes it more special to the ones that actually like it.
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Just trying to help, as i don't consider myself a geek, but i do prefer windows mobile over symbian.
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Click to collapse
I think corporations do plan to make every gadget quickly outdated. Hardware and software companies help each other in that regard. Software is designed to require more and more computing power even though is often not necessary. We could be a lot farther ahead after 20 years of consumer computers. MS is probably the main cause of this troubled development and we are still stuck with it. Window mobile may be better than others but is still very far from being good. That was also the idea of a MS project manager friend of mine who eventually left Seattle and MS. I remember venting my frustration with him and he had no excuse to offer.
I did do ROM upgrades early on but then I had to remove them after developing other problems. If one day I run into somebody that will do it for me I may give them another try. I just had it with this PDA I don't to waste anymore time.
I have a lot of other things in my life and I just don't want to spend time on something that should save me time. It just does not make any sense to me.
When this PDA will crap out I'll be very careful of what I may buy. I think I have learned the lesson. The only thing that I have appreciated is the navigator which is neither HTC or MS. I travel a lot so I keep the bastard only for that. I have to bear the bulk and weight of it for navigation and the occasional email.
I don't know if there are PDAs that can be used like a USB pen. I really hope so. It is such a simple thing, if there aren't any then it's really bad out there.
Thanks for your help
Cheers

I agree with everything you posted originally. Although, it's not HTC's fault as much as it is Microsoft's. I happen to love the G1
I've had a tilt for a year now and, while flashing ROMs does make it bearable, Windows Mobile just sucks in general imo.

mbarvian said:
I agree with everything you posted originally. Although, it's not HTC's fault as much as it is Microsoft's. I happen to love the G1
I've had a tilt for a year now and, while flashing ROMs does make it bearable, Windows Mobile just sucks in general imo.
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Click to collapse
Great to hear that I am not the only unhappy here. Actually I believe there are a lot more but they don't want to admit it.
So you guys de-lurk yourself and get it off your chest. You'll feel better. After all we just bought the PDA, we did not do anything terrible. There wasn't much choice anyway. If I made it or the OS then I would feel really bad about myself.
Cheers

Developer Firmware - Privacy Concerns

Just talked to TMobile, and as I said I'm thinking about abandoning them for the iPhone they credited me $100 toward the Nexus One. (my plan all along) I am now on a Loyalty unlimited talk plan with 300 texts ($50), and with the Nexus I'd add web for another $20. If I buy the phone outright this would save $600 over 2 years compared with the iPhone.
HOWEVER, I am concerned that Google has their tentacles all throughout the OS, and I want to take all measures to stop that. I particularly don't like their search query tracking (I use ixquick) and their nav app, as their privacy policies are atrocious.
I guess installing a dev-modified firmware would void the warranty? Does the bootloader need to be modified? What else?
Where is the best place to find a selection of firmwares? How about open-source apps? What else would be handy?
I hear that HTC has some sort of 'phone home' function. How to neuter that?
I have a friend with a Droid, and was surprised to find that voice quality is poor. How is voice quality on the Nexus One?
What good is Wifi? Is it that you can use that when available, not using up 3G bytes? Anything else?
TIA

Whoa, that's a lot of questions... I'll answer the least controversial first.
The microphone quality is very high. Due to the noise cancelling microphone on the back, your voice will come through very clean and crisp to whatever is on the other end.
What good is WiFi? Well it's WiFi, if you would prefer to use your home network instead of 3G, do it. Typically you'll save battery power if the access point is nearby since the WiFi chip will need to push less power to the antennas. And of course, no data will be monitored or billed through WiFi since it's not t-mobile's network.
As far as roms goes, I always recommend Cyanogen as the first mod since it's well known and has the largest community. Once you're comfortable with flashing new roms, go and experiment with the others.
Now here's the hard part, you seem to be very concerned about your privacy. You may not even want an android phone since a lot of your configuration, contacts, location, and other things are stored in the "google cloud". You won't be changing much by changing search engines.
So really, all of this discussion is moot if you don't want any of your information in the cloud.

If you want a phone to use as a dealer phone...this location tracking beast is not for you.
Kinda the same for all smartphones tho, meh. Can't hide anywhere these days.

The iPhone is no better in terms of account info and location tracking.
One thing I'd mention is that you would be surprised by how many apps in the app store from apple are tracking your location. Now I'd be willing to bet this is fairly innocuous and simply used for usage statistics. But everything from the maps app to NY Times to word games access your maps.
Android marketplace is very explicit about what information each app can and will have access to before you install it.
In terms of cloud storage and google knowing your info, any mobile device will be able to sync settings and info for any account you want to use on it. I wouldn't run around thinking iPhone is more secure just because it syncs your info through iTunes and not OTA.

Can you say paranoid? As far as I know, there isn't any custom ROM for people that are paranoid about being tracked for statistics.

petard said:
Can you say paranoid? As far as I know, there isn't any custom ROM for people that are paranoid about being tracked for statistics.
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Click to collapse
Lmao yea this person seems very paranoid but for what? I don't see y. Like other posters have stated the iPhone is just as bad maybe even worse. Just Becuz Google can track your location doesn't mean its a bad thing. But the voice on this thing is great and clear. The WiFi I used is faster than my 3G so I connect whenever possible. Too many questions to answer each one
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

This dude sounds like either a paranoid schizophrenic or a criminal. Either way he needs help, but not from the xda community. He doesn't even understand what WiFi is, and it's 2010 for ****'s sake! Also, wrong forum section. Mods, please move (or, preferably, delete) this thread.

Part Four said:
This dude sounds like either a paranoid schizophrenic or a criminal. Either way he needs help, but not from the xda community. He doesn't even understand what WiFi is, and it's 2010 for ****'s sake! Also, wrong forum section. Mods, please move (or, preferably, delete) this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you say 'oblivious'?
A couple of you are ignorant, willing to just hand over your 200 year old Constitutional rights for some meager security promised by The Machine. Tucked in sweetly at night, while you're robbed in your sleep of valuables you didn't even know you had. I'm not even bothering to discuss this issue further with those couple of uneducated serfs bent over for the corporatocracy.
I sure hope there are firmware developers with more sense than petard, xXJay_RXx, and especially Part Four. Spare me your inconsequential Jackass Judgmentalism.
In general I'll not be using the apps of that-search-engine-everybody-uses. Removing them forthwith, in favor of whatever GPL open-source apps there are available for various functions. Using self-contained nav software like CoPilot or TomTom. If I didn't need nav, it'd be Opie all the way.
I know what wifi is, Idiot. I am asking what use it is on a mobile in consideration of mobility and the security problems, as I used to be a cracker and know what can be done. My inference is that it can be used as a substitute for 3G at times to save data bandwidth, but I asked the question open-ended so as to not limit possible answers.
Has anyone here understood my questions besides damentz, joshlusignan, and knight4led. (Thanks so far BTW) Def agree about the iPhone. Had doubts about Android until I did some research.

De-Google-ing my Note 9

Hi guys. I'm starting this thread in hopes of sparking a conversation and a concerted effort to rid ourselves as users from the clutches of Google and other big tech companies. I am sick and tired of Google tracking me and attempting to force feed me ads on a daily send constant basis. Then selling my info to other companies such as Facebook. So, I have started down the path of decluttering (De-Google-ing) my device(s). I am primarily interested in securing my device as much as possible and protecting my privacy.
So far, I have reformatted my entire device to factory default settings installed and using F-Droid (FOSS) for all my apps. I use Yandex as my search engine (I am often to suggestions and recommendations) in the "private browser" app. I use Aurora instead of Google Play store, New Pipe for YouTube-ing, Frost for Facebookingand SlimSocial for Twitter. I have stopped using Google keyboard and any other Google apps. I have abandoned gmail and replaced it with proton mail instead. So far, no ads and as far as I can tell, no tracking. I have also installed a VPN and am using it religiously—Cyber Ghost, a $99 for 3 years subscription with support up to 8 devices.
However, I am still very much connected to Samsung for I am not privy as to whether or not Samsung is as sinister as Google and Facebook.
Again, I am open to all suggestions, corrections and recommendations. Thank you and I hope to engage with you all.

leave it up to them yandex russians to protect your privacy.
but seriously. the most dangerous thing you can do is acctualy think that the steps you take are really making your life private.
vpns just channel the traffic to an other end point and does the queries for you then sends the data encrypted to you.
the queries are still made on the www. account info and all things you store or access online is still accessible by the www. vpn companies just fool you into thinking that the data being relayed to you is the only weak link. plus the free ones mine your data.
best thing you can do is not use social media. its made to invade your privacy. its designed to fool you into giving as much of your personal life info as possible and sell your habits to add companies so they can in turn send you quatered adds.
the minute you use the internet you void your privacy regardless of how you think the measures you take are working or effective. and what are you going to do about the 100 and 1000's of companies being hacked and their data mined and sold every month? you cant do anything about that. plus its much better for hackers to get their info from a big company because you get much more than just 1 dude that does his banking online and chat every now and then.there is no money to be made from 1 individual.
if you think people are specifically after you, you are gravely being fooled by the vpn ad campaigns that have been poping up everywhere about "privacy".( they must hide the fact that they also get hacked very well.its just that the media hasint picked up on it yet)
anyways who want to waste time on an end user/device?
when again you just need to hack equifax like a few years back and you get the motherload instead.
all in all I've abandoned the thought of real privacy. its futile.( even abstinents dosen't work because companies and governments don't secure customer data correctly. and unfortunately if you are born, you must be branded and labeled and filed away.)
live your life. just know that what ever you do you can't escape big brother and your data from being leaked by the big companies that say that it is secured with them.
the whole infrastructure relies on them companies and the habits we have been embraining ourselves and our children with is the problem.. we live our lives intertwined with the services and devices that we take for granted and have clicked next next next through polices and consent forms for over 25 years now whithout even giving it a second though. we're in over our heads now and it is a little late to back out. this was al dine by design and all voluntarily. its crazy how marketing is evil.
a cabin in the woods is the easiest and most secure thing one can do. anything shy of that is a waste of time and a false feeling of privacy.
anyways I'm going around in circles now.
one thing for sure is that the criminals we think that we need cover from are not who we think they are.
they are the FCC dealing with big telcos, they are the big media giants spewing false information and fabricates facts. they are in our governments in the highest ranks pushing hidden agendas and most of all they are the big social media platforms remodeling our society each day under our noses at our expense.
but hey this is not new. the internet police is just tring to make you think it is and spend 9.99$ a month for a vpn lol
good luck.

I just stopped using as many Google apps as I can and switched over to MS Office apps and use Samsung services where I can too...

bober10113 said:
leave it up to them yandex russians to protect your privacy.
but seriously. the most dangerous thing you can do is acctualy think that the steps you take are really making your life private.
vpns just channel the traffic to an other end point and does the queries for you then sends the data encrypted to you.
the queries are still made on the www. account info and all things you store or access online is still accessible by the www. vpn companies just fool you into thinking that the data being relayed to you is the only weak link. plus the free ones mine your data.
best thing you can do is not use social media. its made to invade your privacy. its designed to fool you into giving as much of your personal life info as possible and sell your habits to add companies so they can in turn send you quatered adds.
the minute you use the internet you void your privacy regardless of how you think the measures you take are working or effective. and what are you going to do about the 100 and 1000's of companies being hacked and their data mined and sold every month? you cant do anything about that. plus its much better for hackers to get their info from a big company because you get much more than just 1 dude that does his banking online and chat every now and then.there is no money to be made from 1 individual.
if you think people are specifically after you, you are gravely being fooled by the vpn ad campaigns that have been poping up everywhere about "privacy".( they must hide the fact that they also get hacked very well.its just that the media hasint picked up on it yet)
anyways who want to waste time on an end user/device?
when again you just need to hack equifax like a few years back and you get the motherload instead.
all in all I've abandoned the thought of real privacy. its futile.( even abstinents dosen't work because companies and governments don't secure customer data correctly. and unfortunately if you are born, you must be branded and labeled and filed away.)
live your life. just know that what ever you do you can't escape big brother and your data from being leaked by the big companies that say that it is secured with them.
the whole infrascturuce relies on them companies and the habits we have been embraining ourselves and our children with is the problem.. we live our lives intertwined with the services and devices that we take for granted and have clicked next next next through polices and consent forms for over 25 years now whithout even giving it a second though. we're in over our heads now and it is a little late to back out. this was al dine by design and all voluntarily. its crazy how marketing is evil.
a cabin in the woods is the easiest and most secure thing one can do. anything shy of that is a waste of time and a false feeling of privacy.
anyways I'm going around in circles now.
one thing for sure is that the criminals we think that we need cover from are not who we think they are.
they are the FCC dealing with big telcos, they are the big media giants spewing false information and fabricates facts. they are in our governments in the highest ranks pushing hidden agendas and most of all they are the big social media platforms remodeling our society each day under our noses at our expense.
but hey this is not new. the internet police is just tring to make you think it is and spend 9.99$ a month for a vpn lol
good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oy vey! Thank you very much for yor contribution. It is very much appreciated and I see what you are saying.

AndroidUser00110001 said:
I just stopped using as many Google apps as I can and switched over to MS Office apps and use Samsung services where I can too...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How has this been working out for you? What are your thoughts on Samsung's and Microsoft privacy policies etc?

Nonetheless, what are some good and viable alternatives to Google and optimally "securing" one's device (taking everything bober10113 has said).

michel5891 said:
How has this been working out for you? What are your thoughts on Samsung's and Microsoft privacy policies etc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like the other poster said, I gave up on worrying about privacy. I made the switch for other reasons and privacy was down on the list...
I just do not like what Goolge has been doing lately, especially blocking ad blockers soon in Chrome so I switched to MS Edge on Android and the Chromium version of Edge for desktop and the rest of the apps just followed through. I am seeing how the switch works for myself and if all goes well I will switch back to MS for the small company I work for.
I gave up on Gmail, Google Drive and all their office apps so far and I stopped using Nexus/Pixel phones for the first time in 10 years. I started with the S9+ which I enjoyed for a couple of months and then got a Note9 during a holiday special and now I cannot wait for the Note10.
Privacy is what it is nowadays... We should all own our data and if we choose to let be used as companies are doing now then we should get a slice of all the money being made but I doubt it will ever get to be something like that.

michel5891 said:
How has this been working out for you? What are your thoughts on Samsung's and Microsoft privacy policies etc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't think that they are any better than Google's. Majority of the companies out there that are international had to adhere to the EU rules of privacy, so a lot of them have adopted those standards. NOT ALL OF THEM. That's why all of a sudden you are getting new agreements from all the major companies that touch each section of land on the world.
I still don't trust any of them even to that point.
This is morbid. I have been thinking a lot more about death, debt, privacy and such, and I have come to the conclusion that I honestly don't care about my own anymore because it has been stolen, including my wife's. Future children though, I worry about them because you don't even have to mention their name on the internet and somehow every major company knows about them.
Ever had a conversation with someone without actually looking something up on the web, and then a day or two later Google and other ads start showing things concerning what you were talking about to someone in person? Yeah, it has happened to me numerous times now I can't even count anymore.

Jammol said:
Ever had a conversation with someone without actually looking something up on the web, and then a day or two later Google and other ads start showing things concerning what you were talking about to someone in person? Yeah, it has happened to me numerous times now I can't even count anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YES!!! I noticed this a few months ago. My wife and I were talking about some random subject and BAM there it was in my Google discovery feed.
I mentioned that to her and she thought I was crazy until it happened again.
My friend was over last week, he mentioned something about a car he is fixing up and once again in my Google feed...
*EDIT*
I am not going to go as far as saying they are listening because my wife did say she looked up what we were talking about later on that day on her phone so I am guessing it is more GPS based then Google listening to give them the benefit of doubt for now. I need to ask my friend if he searched anything while here...

You want to De-Google your phone? Sell it and don't get an Android phone. Don't get an iPhone, either. In fact, get one of those huge car phones from the 80s. I can't add really anything that hasn't been said, other than some slight humor, but again, if you want privacy, stay off the internet.

AndroidUser00110001 said:
YES!!! I noticed this a few months ago. My wife and I were talking about some random subject and BAM there it was in my Google discovery feed.
I mentioned that to her and she thought I was crazy until it happened again.
My friend was over last week, he mentioned something about a car he is fixing up and once again in my Google feed...
*EDIT*
I am not going to go as far as saying they are listening because my wife did say she looked up what we were talking about later on that day on her phone so I am guessing it is more GPS based then Google listening to give them the benefit of doubt for now. I need to ask my friend if he searched anything while here...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what I'm trying to prevent. Exactly the same thing had happened to me. We were simply discussing an AC unit; never looked it up or mentioned the name of it and the exact make and model in the room we were in showed up.

michel5891 said:
This is what I'm trying to prevent. Exactly the same thing had happened to me. We were simply discussing an AC unit; never looked it up or mentioned the name of it and the exact make and model in the room we were in showed up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah it's super duper creepy. Funny thing is since I refreshed my Note 9 up to PIE, I haven't given assistant or google search any permission to use my microphone and I don't even have them setup!

this might help:
https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/6030020?co=GENIE.Platform=Android&hl=en
turn voice activity off. also check your history to see if it has any recording...

Introduction

I'm 40 year's old and was incarcerated throughout my 20s and 30s I came home to a different world one that I enjoy most at home on my laptop learning. I enjoy learning commands and exploits for any and all systems especially the ones pertaining to my devices. I currently am working on rooting a wingtech revvl+ and a few other devices. Any one who has successfully installed a custom recovery on the tmrvl4g_0.05.27 or any variant of tmrvl4g 5g let me know. Thanks

I need to stock firmware
REVVL V
WINGTECH

harveyjesse821 said:
I'm 40 year's old and was incarcerated throughout my 20s and 30s I came home to a different world one that I enjoy most at home on my laptop learning. I enjoy learning commands and exploits for any and all systems especially the ones pertaining to my devices. I currently am working on rooting a wingtech revvl+ and a few other devices. Any one who has successfully installed a custom recovery on the tmrvl4g_0.05.27 or any variant of tmrvl4g 5g let me know. Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
adelk700 said:
I need to stock firmware
REVVL V
WINGTECH
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome both to XDA,
Try using our powerful search engine and locate your devices forum for more deep customization.
Enjoy!

orb_selektor said:
Welcome both to XDA,
Try using our powerful search engine and locate your devices forum for more deep customization.
Enjoy!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't find anything can you help me find it stock firmware

Welcome, good sir, and glad to have you back in the world... <smile>
I got tired of Boost's nonsense (being forced to upgrade to a 5g phone, allegedly free, but actually about 250 bucks in all), and went to T-Mobile. Since they were cheap and I needed 3 of them, and, with all the upgrades to 5g, likely needed to offload a few traincars of them, we got 3 TMRVL4G devices...
Since it's Wingtech, which really isn't one of the biggies, but, as I've been on this venue all these years, through many devices, I'm always willing to be a guinea pig... My coding chops are decades old, and really revolve around Delphi, CodeTyphon, and old XBase stuff... Never learned C++ nor really much .java, so coding for Android is, while interesting to me, and I can generally read and follow others' work, just the syntax and symbology are difficult for me. (What can I say? Turned 65 this past Valentine's Day, and it shows at the damnedest times... <grin>)
But, should you happen across any recent information regarding any work on rooting this device, or, at the least, enabling the app-to-SD functionality which is available for every other device I've ever owned, I'd be most grateful. Add to that, I've got plenty of legit Play Store-approved apps for which I've paid real money, but can't use as they each require root access... It's not that I disapprove the companies' making admin access difficult (hey, I've boneheaded enough over the years, but give me a way to get back to default and I'm good... I also have a modest collection of paperweights where, "Sorry, dude... you're hosed..." LOL)...
It's that they each try to out-do each other in how impossible they can make it for even experienced users, but without access to their tech-support frame, to actually use these things as they're capable... I mean, ****... a quad-core device, fast as hell, and storage out the wazoo for most users. Not me, mind you, as, were some functionality enabled, this beastie would be a quick laptop replacement, with the Bluetooth keyboard which also seems to not talk to it.
Again, good sir, welcome, and welcome back!

pauljulian said:
Welcome, good sir, and glad to have you back in the world... <smile>
I got tired of Boost's nonsense (being forced to upgrade to a 5g phone, allegedly free, but actually about 250 bucks in all), and went to T-Mobile. Since they were cheap and I needed 3 of them, and, with all the upgrades to 5g, likely needed to offload a few traincars of them, we got 3 TMRVL4G devices...
Since it's Wingtech, which really isn't one of the biggies, but, as I've been on this venue all these years, through many devices, I'm always willing to be a guinea pig... My coding chops are decades old, and really revolve around Delphi, CodeTyphon, and old XBase stuff... Never learned C++ nor really much .java, so coding for Android is, while interesting to me, and I can generally read and follow others' work, just the syntax and symbology are difficult for me. (What can I say? Turned 65 this past Valentine's Day, and it shows at the damnedest times... <grin>)
But, should you happen across any recent information regarding any work on rooting this device, or, at the least, enabling the app-to-SD functionality which is available for every other device I've ever owned, I'd be most grateful. Add to that, I've got plenty of legit Play Store-approved apps for which I've paid real money, but can't use as they each require root access... It's not that I disapprove the companies' making admin access difficult (hey, I've boneheaded enough over the years, but give me a way to get back to default and I'm good... I also have a modest collection of paperweights where, "Sorry, dude... you're hosed..." LOL)...
It's that they each try to out-do each other in how impossible they can make it for even experienced users, but without access to their tech-support frame, to actually use these things as they're capable... I mean, ****... a quad-core device, fast as hell, and storage out the wazoo for most users. Not me, mind you, as, were some functionality enabled, this beastie would be a quick laptop replacement, with the Bluetooth keyboard which also seems to not talk to it.
Again, good sir, welcome, and welcome back!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... and yes... I worked for a few months for Sprint on their helpdesk in El Paso... there is a way... there is always a way.

General Read this before complaining about Google related things not working on your X90PP

Some may feel "targeted" by this thread. I don't really care, though. I feel it was necessary to post this.
Imagine buying a phone meant for Chinese market, and then whining and moaning on XDA forums about some features (Google Play) - that are meant for the GLOBAL market, i.e NOT China- not working properly.
People buy this phone for its cameras. Everything-Google being wonky on China phones (again, phones meant for the CHINA MARKET) is nothing new. And no, it's not just Vivo phones.
If you didn't know that, well... sucks to suck, I guess?
You didn't do [enough] research prior to purchasing, and now you are venting on the forums. Cool, but I'm pretty sure nobody wants to read your bs complaints.
It's kinda like buying a Blu-Ray disc from another region and then whining online that it doesn't work on your player. Get how stupid you sound yet? Vivo never released this particular model for the global market. It's China only, for the time being, at least. You can import it of course, but at your own risk. And that's exactly what some of you don't seem to understand. Somehow you feel entitled to your non-global phone having perfect Google Play functionality. Ridiculous.
If Vivo decides to improve the functionality of Google features on the X90 Pro+, good! They don't have to, though.
If they decide to absolutely do nothing about it, oh well. Again, they don't have to do anything. We'll try to find workarounds.
Do you understand what I'm saying to you right now?
When a China citizen purchases a phone in their country, there's zero Google stuff pre-installed on that phone. And guess what, the large majority of people in China DON'T install Google stuff, EVER. Because they don't need it. Google is not used in China. They have their own search engines etc.
We are here to help each other, find workarounds to problems. That's what these forums are for. Think twice before making a post whining and bashing brands, because it's very likely that your complaints are completely invalid.
Thanks for reading.
{Mod edit: Inappropriate language edited. Oswald Boelcke}

jericho246 said:
Some may feel "targeted" by this thread. I don't really care, though. I feel it was necessary to post this.
Imagine buying a phone meant for Chinese market, and then whining and moaning on XDA forums about some features (Google Play) - that are meant for the GLOBAL market, i.e NOT China- not working properly.
People buy this phone for its cameras. Everything-Google being wonky on China phones (again, phones meant for the CHINA MARKET) is nothing new. And no, it's not just Vivo phones.
If you didn't know that, well... sucks to suck, I guess?
You didn't do [enough] research prior to purchasing, and now you are venting on the forums. Cool, but I'm pretty sure nobody wants to read your bs complaints.
It's kinda like buying a Blu-Ray disc from another region and then whining online that it doesn't work on your player. Get how stupid you sound yet? Vivo never released this particular model for the global market. It's China only, for the time being, at least. You can import it of course, but at your own risk. And that's exactly what some of you don't seem to understand. Somehow you feel entitled to your non-global phone having perfect Google Play functionality. Ridiculous.
If Vivo decides to improve the functionality of Google features on the X90 Pro+, good! They don't have to, though.
If they decide to absolutely do nothing about it, oh well. Again, they don't have to do anything. We'll try to find workarounds.
Do you understand what I'm saying to you right now?
When a China citizen purchases a phone in their country, there's zero Google stuff pre-installed on that phone. And guess what, the large majority of people in China DON'T install Google stuff, EVER. Because they don't need it. Google is not used in China. They have their own search engines etc.
We are here to help each other, find workarounds to problems. That's what these forums are for. Think twice before making a post whining and bashing brands, because it's very likely that your complaints are completely invalid.
Thanks for reading.
{Mod edit: Inappropriate language edited. Oswald Boelcke}
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good job buddy. A post like this was long overdue even when it should be mandatory to search and read before importing a chinese device.

I don't have any issues, notifications arrive in time, etc.
If you have any issues or do you work and research or just get another phone

Before google was blocked by the chinese governement - it was widely used. Still many people use google via VPN.
But yes - google apps that require to be system apps like Android Auto or Google assistant will never work on a China OS phone that has no root. Becasue the Chinese government doesn't allow google to be used.
This is not about what Chinese user wants, but what the CCP dictates.
Also spyware going crazy (you can check with Rethink DNS how many connections are built up to Chinese servers all the time) to fulfill the CCP data hunger is something immiment to any China OS phone. Yes that includes apple phones sold in China (or maybe even global ones activated in China) or any other phone officially sold in China, else it would not be allowed to be sold.
There are plenty more issues than just google when buying a China OS phone - and most sites mentioning shortcomings do not mention them.
A good clue of what the Vivo phone spyware will likely collect can be to read reports about Feng Cai or BXAQ:
https://7asecurity.com/reports/analysis-report_bxaq.pdf
e.g.: All calendar entries, phone contacts, country codes and dialed numbers;
All stored text messages (SMS);
All information accessible for various installed apps + an MD5 hash of the app;+

Well said.
I'm super happy. I just hope to be able to add a card to Google wallet and I can't ask for more in a phone. Got over my initial disappoint about that issue as I can just use my actual card.
Camera is a photographer's dream and everything is so fast and smooth.
The Chinese can spy all they want as I'm in the UK with no relation to China. Could. Not. Care. Less

Haskren said:
The Chinese can spy all they want as I'm in the UK with no relation to China. Could. Not. Care. Less
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weill it could actually be much worse - it's really not unlikely the Chinese government has superuser access on all China OS phones. They used to do this with an app, but it would be much easier for them to do this with inbuilt tools:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/chinese-app-on-xis-ideology-allows-data-access-to-100-million-users-phones-report-says/2019/10/11/2d53bbae-eb4d-11e9-bafb-da248f8d5734_story.html
This way it cannot be discovered easily at all like with the app they used to.
Implications of this - oh but I have absolutely nothing to worry are stupid in my eyes. How do you know the Chinese government doesn't have data breaches? The data that is known about you - would be easily enough to destroy your finances. There have been breaches in China and chinese users were financially harmed by data breached. As a foreigner you are less likely target but that data could be easily sold.
Any website offering pay services now has to secure itself from card scanning, because credit card numbers aren't expensive to buy anymore (usually missing CVC - sometimes with CVC ) those credit cards come usually from data breaches (and yeah a shop doesn't see the full credit card number - so it's not the shop that breached that data).
e.g. the vivo secure keyboard. I mean how do you know your credit card number doesn't end up in China when using it? It's enabled by default... I would not trust it a dime.
The past has shown problems already on greater scale, google up XcodeGhost and Tencent...

here it comes, another thread blocked by this guy.
If your so afraid if getting your data leaked just don't use Internet. Don't leave your house cause ur neighbours will leak your position aswell. If you're so afraid of the Chinese, just buy another Smartphone.

extremecarver said:
Weill it could actually be much worse - it's really not unlikely the Chinese government has superuser access on all China OS phones. They used to do this with an app, but it would be much easier for them to do this with inbuilt tools:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/chinese-app-on-xis-ideology-allows-data-access-to-100-million-users-phones-report-says/2019/10/11/2d53bbae-eb4d-11e9-bafb-da248f8d5734_story.html
This way it cannot be discovered easily at all like with the app they used to.
Implications of this - oh but I have absolutely nothing to worry are stupid in my eyes. How do you know the Chinese government doesn't have data breaches? The data that is known about you - would be easily enough to destroy your finances. There have been breaches in China and chinese users were financially harmed by data breached. As a foreigner you are less likely target but that data could be easily sold.
Any website offering pay services now has to secure itself from card scanning, because credit card numbers aren't expensive to buy anymore (usually missing CVC - sometimes with CVC ) those credit cards come usually from data breaches (and yeah a shop doesn't see the full credit card number - so it's not the shop that breached that data).
e.g. the vivo secure keyboard. I mean how do you know your credit card number doesn't end up in China when using it? It's enabled by default... I would not trust it a dime.
The past has shown problems already on greater scale, google up XcodeGhost and Tencent...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everybody knows this happens with chinese phones , nothing new .Why have you bought one ? I mean you were aware Vivo its a chinese company , right ?

vendetta17 said:
Everybody knows this happens with chinese phones , nothing new .Why have you bought one ? I mean you were aware Vivo its a chinese company , right ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's simply not the case. So far phones produced in China for global market spy much less than phones produced for China. Because even Iphone produced for China or Samsung produced for China will have to comply with the Chinese government orders on receiving the content of all messages, a list of all phone calls and more data (maybe even all call content).
There is a difference between China OS phone and Chinese global phone - and most people do NOT know this.
And then - as long as there is no sticky for China OS phones listing exactly what google services are unreliable (like google wallet) and which don't work (e.g. Android Auto, google Assistant, Google Backup, Google Location History) or restrictions like very hard to exchange system launcher - and if you do you receive a notice that you have to click away (but not click on it) every reboot or every few days - most people simply aren't aware of all the problems.
I haven't seen a single review of the X90 Pro+ listing all the missing google services - on the contrary the say it's easy to install google playstore and everything works (notebookcheck) - showing that they clearly never used the phone as daily driver (but 90% of the readers will not know this!) to XDA review mentioning only Android auto and okay google not working (that way you believe the rest - including conversation with google assistant does work) or Chinahandys.net which goest the furthes but still misses some points - however does explain to remove vivo.pem (single review ever mentioning this) if you want to receive notifications - but still misses out on location history and google backup.
If the reviews all mentioned the above problems, then much less people would buy China OS phones in first place, and then it really would be justified saying don't vent about google stuff not working. But the fact is that the reviews all miss this. Even more they often tell you that you can just flash the global firrmware (in case of Xiaomi) - though with Xiaomi 13 for example this has become super complicated, and very easy to brick your phone while doing so.
That goes so far that Trading Shenzen advertises google wallet working - and I still think it's possible to get it to work so far on every phone - and people just not having the right framework installed - but there is no guarantee whatsoever it will continue to work with Android 14.
Same for updates - all the reviews mention either the global update policy which doesn't apply, or like chinahandys saying no guarentee but 2-3 years of updates including major android versions - which again ist not true - because e.g. Vivo X70 Pro+ never got Android 12, and very likely a single major updgrade - Android 13 - and very very delayed security patches (and as long as you use Android - those patches are essential - they have nothing to do with google itself).
Many people buying the X90 Pro+ come from Huawei P30 Pro or even Mate 20 Pro - those had really good / reliable software with the caveat of course of being stuck with Android 10 due to the Huawei ban. However no single other Chinese brand ever got close to the Huawei software quality...
And no - I wasn't aware of most of those points - before buying - because no damn review mentions them! And I thought chinese phones = China OS chinese phones when it comes to spyware (similar to bloatware ). But this is simply not the case. I didn't know that the China spyware costs a lot of battery life (see identical phones on dxomark or gsmarena battery tests - with the China OS version usually having 7-15% less battery life, espcially standby much shorter!)
And youtube reviews are even worse - they usually mention no single point at all of the above.

jericho246 said:
Some may feel "targeted" by this thread. I don't really care, though. I feel it was necessary to post this.
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I stopped reading here.
When a company advertises that the phone they sell will work 100% with Google Payment applications and banking apps which require secure/high integrity. Then when I pay them for that phone, I expect these things to work. When it doesn't work, I demand compensation. That's fair, that's life.
Honestly threads and posts like this belong on Reddit where you can scream into the void at your own expense and because you literally have nothing else better to do. I for one have better things to do.
Writing a long-winded rant that no one who values their time is going to read really tells more about yourself than it does about the people you have directed this thread at. Here's your free bump. But I'll make sure to ignore all of your posts going forward. I suggest others do the same.
EDIT: I got a 15% refund of my 512GB Vivo X90PP, because it doesn't pass SatfetyNet. That brings the price down to just under 850€ for me. Also this will likely be fixed in the next software update, as the trial/beta update has Google Pay working for everyone on XDA who has tested it so far.
So partial refund + working on next update. So I guess the joke is on you for not having done your own research. Clearly I did mine.

luontokoodaus said:
I stopped reading here.
When a company advertises that the phone they sell will work 100% with Google Payment applications and banking apps which require secure/high integrity. Then when I pay them for that phone, I expect these things to work. When it doesn't work, I demand compensation. That's fair, that's life.
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Aight, you sound upset (for no good reason), so let's get this over with quick. Show me where Vivo actually stated that the Vivo X90PP supports "Google Payment applications".
I'll save you the trouble; you can't, because they never advertised it. Google is never mentioned anywhere.
Now if you are talking about resellers like Wonda Mobile or Trading Shenzhen, then your issue is with them, not Vivo.

Greetings to all. Just a friendly reminder about XDA Rule 2.3:
2.3 Flaming / Lack of respect: XDA is about sharing and this does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) or rudeness. Flaming or posting with a lack of respect is unacceptable. Treat new members in the manner in which you would like to have been treated when you were a new member. When dealing with any member, provide them with guidance, advice and instructions when you can, showing them respect and courtesy. Never post in a demanding, argumentative, disrespectful or self-righteous manner.
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While everyone is entitled to post their opinion, we ask only that you do so in a polite and respectful manner, or not at all. So let us please leave the name calling out
of it shall we. Thank you.
-Regards: Badger50