Database Develop

New apple Ifoon versus the BA

From what I've seen there is not a lot more that the Ifoon can offer over what the BA has.
I like the look of the ifoon, but other than edge what else does it offer?
A bigger hole in the bank account.

Agreed.
Apple, welcome to 2004.

Heh, they've just announced that it won't be able to run third-party apps unless they are certified by Apple.

no ways yoz
fraser said:
Heh, they've just announced that it won't be able to run third-party apps unless they are certified by Apple.
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haha bros that's an apple patent.. we all know this!! software support always been an apple downfall. Not only that but no physical buttons?!? What happens when the 'super apple' touchscreen goes out? ouch! You got that bar of soap it so much resembles!
I dig my BA, but it's too big and bulky, get a hermes for that price! Apple and Jobs built a POS. They're just jealous that M$ is getting so much recognition with new smartphones. Last year at this time it seemed half the world didn't even know what a smartphone was.. until the release of these smartphones like the Q/blackjack, every lil 16yr old cries to their parents for one. What a crock! My opinion.
Apple needs to stick to software, the Intel macs are tearing up the G5's all around.

I have watched the introduction of the iPhone over the net.
This is the best device of this class!! It is lightning fast, it is operated with fingers only (no stylus!!!!!) it is a unique Softwae/hardware simbiot!!! After all how many IPods have crashed or needed soft reset, hard reset and so on? If Apple release this wonderfull device I'll get myself one for sure!
This is personal opinion!

OrionBG, I'm not convinced. I know at least three iPod users that have had serious problems. Dodgy batteries, music db corruption (complete loss) and other issues with iTunes have left me quite unimpressed. The mere fact that they force you to use iTunes bites the big one. My friend had to reset his whole library after his PC hard drive crashed. Well, he would have if it hadn't been for the "illegal" utilities I helped him use to recover most of it.
Apples "Just Works" thing is largely a marketing myth. Pop over to any unofficial apple forum to see the real issues that their hardware has. You can't discuss these things on their official forums; if you raise a bug that they can't be bothered fixing, they'll just delete the thread everytime you raise it. Check the discussion in that link; they have a long history of this.
They also sue websites and threaten them if they say anything bad about apple. If this forum was larger they would be complaining about my current post. Paul over at Modaco had to remove a Today screen for Windows Mobile that looked a little like the apple one announced. If you announce any Apple "secrets", they will threaten to sue you even though you have never signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement. They have bigger lawyers than you and more money to spend so people rarely fight back.
Apple suck. This is not the right way to run a company IMHO. They are a bad company guilty of anti-competitive practices and this has been consistent over the past five years. Their recent hardware has been very anti-consumer and of poor quality. The only reason they get away with it is because their main competitor has a worse track record in these regards and that they have a fantastic marketing department.

Have u heard about piratebay activity called http://buysealand.com/ they've just decided to buy small "island" - no lawyers problem anymore.
... and one of the greatest tactic is "how something is amazing" post by "ordinary people" together with deleting "the wrong one".

I read jobs' debut of the ifoon. There's some neat ideas there. I like the large screen. This is also the reason I've kept a BA. I also like the idea of the device sensing the orientation of the device and changing the screen orientation. I don't possibly see how the keyboard is going to work, especially if one's fingers are large.
I love the slide out keyboards by HTC. The keys stick out enough to feel.
Concerning the OS, I used to hate MS OSs. Win98was aweful. However I've been using XP Pro on an HP laptop for almost 2 yrs with very little problems.
I also use an HTC Wizard with Gamescans Mr. Clean AKU2.3 is completely stable. It is the most reliable phone/pda I've ever used and I've had a Treo. The Wizard needs a larger processor and UMTS/HDSPA - hence the Hermes.
I haven't bought the hermes yet because I keep hoping to see HTC give us a large screen, processor, and 3G. I'm getting older and like the big screen.
The perfect phone would have the Dash's rubbery non-slip outer surface with a 3.5" hires screen, at least a 400 processor, a slide out keyboard, AM/FM radio, SD card slot and maybe a HD, UMTS/HDSPA, quad band, headset jack, BT 2.0, add GPS and WiFi. The device has to go at least a day with heavy UMTS surfing.
I may settle for a Hermes (TyTN or xv6800) if AKU3.** is available. I want to tether my phone & Laptop at 3G once in a while

rambo6 said:
I read jobs' debut of the ifoon. There's some neat ideas there. I like the large screen. This is also the reason I've kept a BA. I also like the idea of the device sensing the orientation of the device and changing the screen orientation. I don't possibly see how the keyboard is going to work, especially if one's fingers are large.
I love the slide out keyboards by HTC. The keys stick out enough to feel.
Concerning the OS, I used to hate MS OSs. Win98was aweful. However I've been using XP Pro on an HP laptop for almost 2 yrs with very little problems.
I also use an HTC Wizard with Gamescans Mr. Clean AKU2.3 is completely stable. It is the most reliable phone/pda I've ever used and I've had a Treo. The Wizard needs a larger processor and UMTS/HDSPA - hence the Hermes.
I haven't bought the hermes yet because I keep hoping to see HTC give us a large screen, processor, and 3G. I'm getting older and like the big screen.
The perfect phone would have the Dash's rubbery non-slip outer surface with a 3.5" hires screen, at least a 400 processor, a slide out keyboard, AM/FM radio, SD card slot and maybe a HD, UMTS/HDSPA, quad band, headset jack, BT 2.0, add GPS and WiFi. The device has to go at least a day with heavy UMTS surfing.
I may settle for a Hermes (TyTN or xv6800) if AKU3.** is available. I want to tether my phone & Laptop at 3G once in a while
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Nobody will build a perfect phone : )

!! M$ !!
Sure everyone hates M$ but what are the most widely used OS variants in the world.. Without a doubt...Windows products! Eat that Apple/Linux/whatever users
Plus like I stated, the need for physical buttons are a must, no? That must be one super touchscreen on the apple it will be the one way to navigate? Not even a scroll wheel like relatively cheap smartphones? OUCH! hope you have absolutely clean fingers no matter what that screen will be soo smudged up with nastiness!
Apple jealous of M$ tearing up the mobile market, can't stand it! hahaha I love it!! They're hardware is behind, only thing they've got going for them is the camera.
Apple ish*t specs
Technical Specifications
Screen size 3.5 inches
Screen resolution 320 by 480 at 160 ppi
Input method Multi-touch
Operating system OS X
Storage 4GB or 8GB
GSM Quad-band (MHz: 850, 900, 1800, 1900)
Wireless data Wi-Fi (802.11b/g) + EDGE + Bluetooth 2.0
Camera 2.0 megapixels
Battery Up to 5 hours Talk / Video / Browsing
Up to 16 hours Audio playback
Dimensions 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches / 115 x 61 x 11.6mm
Weight 4.8 ounces / 135 grams

I have never had apple stuff, but I watch apple closely. And I must admit, they build good stuff.
It's easier to shrug off the iPhone, especially if you don't have the money to buy it
cutting through the grituitous bashing, as well as the hype, I have seen good and bad things.
GOOD:
No doubt it has a hardware platform powerful enough to perform at least as good as our BAs, and probably better. Yeah, it could have 3G, but it would add too much to the cost of the machine.
INTERFACE. Don't spit this 'I can do the same with 15 taps on my screen' style of crap. The machine has MULTITOUCH. That opens a whole window of possibilities for interactivity. like the demoed zoom, where you hold two fingers together and slide them apart on the screen to zoom in a map.
It's not like our touchscreens which can only detect a single coordinate on screen.
Not to mention all that eye-candy OS X is famous for. OK, you may scoff on eye candy, but used wisely (and apple knows how to do it), you can have visual clues of what's happening and this actually improves usability. Otherwise just pick up your Nokia 1110 with its black-and-white matrix and shut up.
They have no legacy to keep compatible, so they can really innovate. And I believe they are really innovating on this area.
Another nice touch is the orientation sensor which automatically changes from portrait to landscape when you rotate the machine. no buttons.
THE MIXED:
Apple's choice of software model. It will have a final say on what's available for the machine and what's not. I bet the apps will be available only through iTunes. It's good in the sense that they can ensure that software complies to a certain standard, which means good quality.
It's also probably a bane for the warez crowd, because pirating software will be much more difficult, if not impossible.
It will probably be bad for the hobbyst crowd, which would like to code for fun for their devices, and probably won't be allowed to. Unless Apple releases some open IDE a la Carbide, but since they are already closing up the door on software availability, this possibility is remote.
I think it's more bad than good, but at least we can hope this will be a death sentence for software developemnt for this platform, and that this will actually result in more security. Not that we have many actual threats out there, but smartphones have the potential to be hacked into, become zombies for spam botnets etc. etc. When the spammers/crackers start to tap on this, we might start to see Windows Mobile get into a nightmare...
THE BAD:
It lacks 3G, it does not have direct iTunes access (you have to cradle it to sync and add stuff);
It has no SD card slot. Now THAT's a ****up, it has a screen big enough to play videos, but not enough space to carry them.
No removable battery? WHAT did they have in mind? OK, I don't usually swap batteries around, but I tend to buy extended batteries (my BA has one). I only this machine has GOOD battery life, this might not bite as much.
It would be good to have a GPS throwed in too... hey, let me dream!
Cingular only... Hmm, I believe this won't last long. Other companies have launched branded products, but eventually they open up for the market after some time. I believe there have been t-mobile onlys before, after some time they will allow everyone to buy it. Remember, it's all about PROFIT. Apple will not close their market that much. If they can sell more, they will. They are probably working first with the operator which was easier to work with, they gave more of how apple wanted to control the device and the network. And they will probably use this to scrub on other operator and say 'Ok, if you don't do it the way I like it, I won't do you the favor of selling my devices to you' (Yeah, Apple is a bit like a diva). They will try to use the Cingular-only argument to try to drive the operator into submission. It's a reversal of roles, where usually the operators dictate what they want and don't want on their devices. And maybe they can pull it off.
IT's EXPENSIVE. Apple/Cingular is really 'stretching the thong' on this one. Either Cingular is not subsidizing AT ALL (have you thought of this possibility?), or the machine is really expensive.
I don't think the BOM justifies anywhere close to this price tag. The screen is the same size of a LifeDrive, which is not anywhere near the cost of this machine. 4-8 GB flash? look at the iPod nano's price tags. ARM CPU + radios, there are plenty out there. motion/orientation sensor? Hmm, look at the Wii controls, I think I have read something about them, those things are not expensive nowadays. The only exotic stuff is the multi-touch sensor, and those things exist for quite some time, they are just not popular. and lacking stuff like 3G radio, SD slot and... a removable battery cover (sigh) helps driving down the cost.
The profit margin is fat here! yeah, there is all this 'pay for R&D blah blah', but they are going to make a few good bucks.
BOTTOM LINE:
It's the first generation. I will wait and see. 1 year from now the price tag will be sane, I will probably be able to buy an unlocked one, and even better if I can find a 2nd generation device which has GPS and a SD card slot.

pda...of course
in primis...here in hungary every apple stuff is sold for a double or triple price as in the US, this means, that the ifoon would cost minimum 1000-1200$...that is not affordable...or, of course, it is, but the ifoon doesn't worth that much...
pro secundo...the operator lock...well...it's discussed on many forums, that it wont be easy to crack it, so if it ever would be sold here, you couldn't change operator easily, and if not at all, it sucks...
pro tertia...the multitouch...say anything, that it's better than a single stylus...but i can't imagine, that i'll use my thumbs to scroll an ebook, or play minesweeper ;]...but anyway, if the software range is limited, than it matters no...sending an sms could be easyer, maybe, because, you could type...but you should use full screen keyboard...which is annoying, and anyhow, you could take it in your hand like a psp, so you could use only thumbs, that are big...and as mentioned...you will mess the whole screen with fingerprints all the time...that suck again
the thingy has no IRDA, this way you cannot use it as a remote control for tv, or what...
and, and as mentioned above...no gps, no sd, no changeable battery...anyhow 3G is said to be installed in it, till it will be merchandised...

Brazilian Joe said:
I have never had apple stuff, but I watch apple closely. And I must admit, they build good stuff.
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I disagree. Sure, their PCs will get you on the net but as soon as you try to do something more complex they fall down. Their support is rubbish and they regularly delete bugs and forum posts about issues they can't be bothered fixing. Their computer hardware and QC have been slated regularly. About the best thing they have going for them is their legion of fanboi's (and astroturfers) convincing people that their computers "just work" when it's not the case.
They also threaten sites like xda-developers as a general rule. They probably have more lawyers than developers, basically a small Microsoft during it's evil phase.
About the only thing they've done right lately is the iPod, and even it has all the "all apple, all the time" idea where you can only buy music from iTunes and get it on to the device. If you try to write software so that people are free to use something else other than iTunes, they'll sue you for that.
Oh, and now they are charging you for patches and feature updates and calling it "an accounting quirk".
Apple suck, most people are just too blinkered by their dislike for Microsoft to see it.
INTERFACE. Don't spit this 'I can do the same with 15 taps on my screen' style of crap. The machine has MULTITOUCH. That opens a whole window of possibilities for interactivity. like the demoed zoom, where you hold two fingers together and slide them apart on the screen to zoom in a map.
It's not like our touchscreens which can only detect a single coordinate on screen.
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It's nice, but I'm not all that impressed. Sure, most of us will have seen the multitouch proof-of-concept videos last year on a full PC, but this is on a phone. There isn't all that much room for more than one active finger. And what about one-handed operation? You'd need to have it on a table for multi-touch. And what, on a mobile, can it actually be used for that's superior to any other UI component?
Not to mention all that eye-candy OS X is famous for. OK, you may scoff on eye candy, but used wisely (and apple knows how to do it), you can have visual clues of what's happening and this actually improves usability.
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It's most redeeming feature IMHO.
They have no legacy to keep compatible, so they can really innovate.
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Nope, built of OSX and it uses iTunes. That's quite a legacy there alone.
And I believe they are really innovating on this area.
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I could not disagree more. All they've done is take a standard device and slap a pretty UI on it. We could get that via a software update on old hardware right now. In fact, we had it and they forced hanmin to remove his post via bogus legal threats. One good thing about all of this is that MS will have to rethink their UI and play catchup a little.
Another nice touch is the orientation sensor which automatically changes from portrait to landscape when you rotate the machine. no buttons.
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My digital camera has that, it's very useful and intuative. You see it happen once and from then on it's instinctive just to rotate it. However, on a phone when it has to send redraw events to the running applications and deal with resolution changes, I'm not convinced this is something you want switching everything you move your arm.
Apple's choice of software model. It will have a final say on what's available for the machine and what's not. I bet the apps will be available only through iTunes. It's good in the sense that they can ensure that software complies to a certain standard, which means good quality.
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That's fine, but IMHO if you visit the xda-developers website often, this is not the phone for you. If you visit "hello" magazine and read about Paris Hilton, maybe that's the software delivery model designed just for you.
It's also probably a bane for the warez crowd, because pirating software will be much more difficult, if not impossible.
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Not sure, signing doesn't prevent piracy, it just prevents tampering and provides a trust mechanism. Unless they generate you an unique key-pair for every purchase which I seriously doubt.
It has no SD card slot. Now THAT's a ****up, it has a screen big enough to play videos, but not enough space to carry them.
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Stream via WiFi, via iTunes and your credit-card? Standard Apple practice, charge 'em where possible.
No removable battery? WHAT did they have in mind?
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Making money. Officially when your iPod battery dies (often 1 year old), you have to buy a new iPod.
Cingular only... Hmm, I believe this won't last long. Other companies have launched branded products, but eventually they open up for the market after some time.
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Don't hold your breath, it's a two-year (!!) contract.
I don't think the BOM justifies anywhere close to this price tag.
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No, but the Apple logo does apparently. All of their stuff is at least 30% over market value.
It's the first generation. I will wait and see. 1 year from now the price tag will be sane, I will probably be able to buy an unlocked one, and even better if I can find a 2nd generation device which has GPS and a SD card slot.
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Agreed. Might even get one myself, but I reckon that it'll give the other mobile platforms a kick up the butt and they'll be well ahead by then.

The subject is iphone versus BA
Nobody actually talk about BA at this thread.
Obviously, iphone wins.
Apple's real advance is draw all ppl's attention, media focus, even they build a ****.
Jobs yells, Look at our new ****!!

yoz my last post as a BA user
Heck I have cingular and i'd take a $200 BA over an $499 iphone anyday!! My last post as a BA user, I loved it, great, fast, versitile device. 3.5" display can't beat that.. widescreen at 240x320.. amazing hardware when it released. Lets seea crossbow leap to the BA.
! Long live HTC !

A friend of mine is very Iphone-minded; so from the moment he get's it, I'll have a look at this "device".
I can tell you this much: you will only be able to do with it what apple wants you to do with it - modifying, installing apps? forget it!
I can't imagine a iphone-developers.com

Hmm, there is an iSupply review estimating the BOM (hardware cost alone) to be around 250/280 for the 4/8 GB iPhones.
Even if I lived in the US, I wouldn't rush into the iPhone. i'd wait and see.
I like to see all technological advancements, and I am not a fanboy of ANY brand.
For example, while I have always preached AMD over intel since the K6, now I am recommending Core 2 Duo to anyone who asks. The performance speaks for itself. Since I acknowledged what the Centrino was doing, I kept a close eye on the Intel developments... When They announced that the Core 2 Duo would have an average 20% better performance over the Core Duo, I seriously doubted about it. I have read the technical articles, but I still was skeptic, believeing that they were trumpeting a 'best case' as if it were THE performance. But I was wrong. Core 2 Duio is really all that, and it will be interesting to see AMD catching up.
personally, I actully think AMD will pull it off, with the 'specialized cores' approach. They will embed a GPU (I believe it will be generalized and simply called a 'stream processor') in a multi-core package this year, and soon I believe we will see a Crypto core, and who knows what else. maybe AMD even ecides it's a good idea to have a FPGA as an extra core, and that would open an incredible number of possibilities.
Back to the iPhone subject:
I see the iPhone design as the antithesis of Nokia, nothing is more antagonic to the 'buttons only' approach of S60 than a touchscreen-only.
UIQ and Windows Mobile stay in-between, playing both games, but apparently losing on both. I would like to have a hands-on test drive on the iPhone, but I believe they got it right on the interface.
I really believe the software model they are trying to impose is on of iPhone's greatest risks, the other one is being locked on Cingular for too long, and those could cause its demise.
I really hope it suceeds though, because there is at least one thing it brought to the market, and I really, really hope Microsoft adds it to Photon (WM7): MultitouchScreen.
Competition is good.

well. I have read a great deal on the new i phone. My own opinion is simply that they will NOT corner any part of the mobile phone market let alone come anywhere close to the BA or HTC models of any description.
Apple are already running into stupid problems already if the BBC news here in UK is correct. Apparently the "i phone" name is already a no go thanks to a previous copyright name came from a different company. And as far as being original and up2date....apple are always very close to the mark when it comes to this. Remember last year towards Nov Dec time when LG showed up with their version of what they say as the interactive mobile phone. And how close
the apple phone is in comparison to the LG. I say no more.
OS X maybe pretty to look at, but I much prefer the adaptability and personalizing of the modern Windows Phone edition etc. Have what you want, when you want, HOW you want. AND then....carry ALL your media content including movies mtv clips cartoon....oh yes...AND music (mp3 ogg files etc)it all about (if you prefer) on you OWN memory card.
I digress...

Well, Apple is not that much of a stupid company.
They negotiated and researched before trumpeting the iPhone name.
More recently, after the 'what did they had in mind' reaction, it came up that complaints were filed both in the US and in the EU, in attempt to revoke Cisco's copyright over the iPhone brand for lack of use.
Seems they picked one of their existing products and just badged it as an iPhone, to try to keep hold of the name at the expiry date.
the productitself was released much later and is not what they showed previously, so Apple is trying to free up the name.
Well, it's a gamble, but they would't even try if there was no chance to win on trial.
It will depend on convincing the judge that Cisco was sitting on the name and not using it for too long, so long that they lost their rights over it.
It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

does the wings worth buing?

i really like this phone but im not sure, after what i've read, if it really worth. i also got my eyes on the vox and on n95..can u help me a lil on this choice? the s730 seems to be over the n95 at some aspects but that graphics software that lacks brings me a some doubts..thank you
George

zadude said:
i really like this phone but im not sure, after what i've read, if it really worth. i also got my eyes on the vox and on n95..can u help me a lil on this choice? the s730 seems to be over the n95 at some aspects but that graphics software that lacks brings me a some doubts..thank you
George
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IMO considering any Nokia is insane. But what is most important - what do you want to use this phone for?

well almost everything one of those phones could offer me..listening to music on my way to work, browsing the web by wlan especially, watching some movies, use the calendar to be sure i dont loose any meetings, send tons of email and sms, all of those packed in a compact and user friendly device..s730 seems perfect except those bugs...

zadude said:
well almost everything one of those phones could offer me..listening to music on my way to work, browsing the web by wlan especially, watching some movies, use the calendar to be sure i dont loose any meetings, send tons of email and sms, all of those packed in a compact and user friendly device..s730 seems perfect except those bugs...
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I love the s730... however, I wish I waited for the version that will be released with North American 3G support (well... i use TMobile, which doesn't have a 3G network in NA anyway, also nobodies sure which RF chipset is included in the WING220 anyway, so it may support 850/1900 HSDPA after all).
The video driver appears to be being worked on by HTC, although jockyw states it is in a different way than perfect.
Overall, I'm very happy with my S730, but if you're in North America, I'd wait for the model with support for the North American 3G frequencies. Otherwise, I strongly recommend the device. The WLAN support is fine. Video play back is fine, I use GSPlayer and Windows Media Player. Does your work use ActiveSync for mobile devices (do they support Windows Mobile devices)? If so, this will work fine. The only inescapable problem I have is that the Microsoft Bluetooth Drivers don't support **** for profiles (nothing to do with the phone though).
If you use Last.FM, you may want to check out the little PHP app I "created." Link in my signature \/. If you don't use it, you may want to start, it's awesome.

bigflavor said:
I love the s730... however, I wish I waited for the version that will be released with North American 3G support (well... i use TMobile, which doesn't have a 3G network in NA anyway, also nobodies sure which RF chipset is included in the WING220 anyway, so it may support 850/1900 HSDPA after all).
The video driver appears to be being worked on by HTC, although jockyw states it is in a different way than perfect.
Overall, I'm very happy with my S730, but if you're in North America, I'd wait for the model with support for the North American 3G frequencies. Otherwise, I strongly recommend the device. The WLAN support is fine. Video play back is fine, I use GSPlayer and Windows Media Player. Does your work use ActiveSync for mobile devices (do they support Windows Mobile devices)? If so, this will work fine. The only inescapable problem I have is that the Microsoft Bluetooth Drivers don't support **** for profiles (nothing to do with the phone though).
If you use Last.FM, you may want to check out the little PHP app I "created." Link in my signature \/. If you don't use it, you may want to start, it's awesome.
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I must agree with bigflavor, except:
- I don't know anything about problems with 3G here in Europe. Everything works fine (doesn't mean there aren't any in the US)
- Video playback depends on format (and codec) of the file you want to play. Some of them are OK, some sucks. E.g. MP4 which is the output of built-in camera looks like a terrible slideshow.
- Generally I would say if you prefer to work, go and get it. If you prefer gaming & multimedia, don't

zadude said:
i really like this phone but im not sure, after what i've read, if it really worth. i also got my eyes on the vox and on n95..can u help me a lil on this choice? the s730 seems to be over the n95 at some aspects but that graphics software that lacks brings me a some doubts..thank you
George
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I have an s730 and n95-2. Both devices are great in their diff ways. If I had to chose between the two I would pick n95-2. It is quicker, more responsive, and for wifi it can't be beat. I do like my s730 tho. However it sometimes freezes, needs reboots and is slower in running thru the menus and also slower with wifi, not sure why. I have the option of using either one and go between both. I realize this being a winmo forum that nokia gets knocked a bit, but the n95 line is really very good IMHO and should be compared.

It is definitely worth buying. It is a very, very good smartphone. Yeah, there are problems, but an update is coming which should fix them. I have noticed one major problem only and three minor problems + few MICRO problems. The major problem - ram consumption. It is not THAT bad, OF COURSE, it even doesn't annoy. The only thing is that you see that there are 3 megabytes free from time to time. And sometimes an app won't launch so u have to open task manager and kill some apps. Minor problems - multipress timeout setting has no effect (i set it to 0.5s but it still timeouts in 1 sec). Second problem - included RSS hub app (which is super-cool!!) has a bug which doesn't let you set the refresh setting lower than 1h. Oh, and GPRS/EDGE/UMTS/HSPDA won't disconnect by itself even though idle disconnect timer is set to 30s! So u have to kill GSM data with comm manager . No video issues or whatsoever. Well, watching videos with WMP is LAGGY, but not with Core Player! Current video subsystem is not worse than that of Tornado, Vox etc. As HTC said, it need software optimisation so it would render the same way tornados, voxes did. ATI chip was not mentioned in specs. HTC would have to pay huge amounts of money to ATI for licensing just to enable it. Mentioning Qualcomm chipset doesn't mean that all the possible features, which all are licensed, will be available. Its like with windows versions: there are more expensive ones with more stuff enabled.
BTW, does anybody know if that update will include WM 6.1 which would be AWESOME?

zadude said:
i really like this phone but im not sure, after what i've read, if it really worth. i also got my eyes on the vox and on n95..can u help me a lil on this choice? the s730 seems to be over the n95 at some aspects but that graphics software that lacks brings me a some doubts..thank you
George
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Actually NO, it doesn’t! I allready did this stupid choice and now I'm crying for RAM and decent video.
And BTW, If you’ll compare it with iPhone which is in the same price segment, you’ll understand why I’m so disappointed.For this amount of money I’m tired to stay on internet, hoping for a solution. Go and spend 400USD for an iPhone which is now absolutely breakable for any GSM carrier and stay away from cares and interminable board discutions.

profir said:
And BTW, If you’ll compare it with iPhone which is in the same price segment, you’ll understand why I’m so disappointed.For this amount of money I’m tired to stay on internet, hoping for a solution. Go and spend 400USD for an iPhone which is now absolutely breakable for any GSM carrier and stay away from cares and interminable board discutions.
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Unless you want to surf via 3G, in which case you're screwed with the Iphone, because it doesn't support it.

profir said:
Actually NO, it doesn’t! I allready did this stupid choice and now I'm crying for RAM and decent video.
And BTW, If you’ll compare it with iPhone which is in the same price segment, you’ll understand why I’m so disappointed.For this amount of money I’m tired to stay on internet, hoping for a solution. Go and spend 400USD for an iPhone which is now absolutely breakable for any GSM carrier and stay away from cares and interminable board discutions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely disagree. iPhone is in a different class. It is better for multi-media, but has worse messaging, communications, phone-dialing functions. You cant use it with one hand, etc.
And even though S730 ati subsystem is not wired it doesn't mean that it should run slower than for example VOX did which doesn't even have a dedicated graphics subsystem (after upcoming software patch). So iPhone is not even an option unless you are absolutely dumb about what you want from a phone. iPhone is a toy, compared. A cool toy

If you're not sure between S730 and N95 then I would go with the N95, it's a much more 'refined' product and does the things that it does very well, whereas the S730 is potentially more powerful but it's a bit more rough around the edges, mostly down to the operating system.
Oh and the biggest difference is that S730 has a QWERTY keyboard whereas the N95 doesn't.

Mark Hewitt said:
If you're not sure between S730 and N95 then I would go with the N95, it's a much more 'refined' product and does the things that it does very well, whereas the S730 is potentially more powerful but it's a bit more rough around the edges, mostly down to the operating system.
Oh and the biggest difference is that S730 has a QWERTY keyboard whereas the N95 doesn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
N95 has a bigger screen, but of same resolution. I used to have a N95-1 (first generation), and i didn't like it at all. It feels more like a simple nokia than a powerful smartphone. Contact searching sucks very, very hard (compared), emailing sucks too, internet browser renders sites worse, it IS laggy most of the time, slider mechanism wore out (became loose) very soon, note even talking about exchange "support", etc. On the good sides, it has standard headphones connector (HTC has a nice RM - W100/E100 remote music controller with 2.5mm port), it has sliding-out music controls, it feels durable (except the slider), it has a very good camera and a good look. I would definitely go with S730 though. It has it's flaws but i'm very happy with it.

The main difference is the keyboard. If you want to type some texts it's your phone. If not, N95 has GPS and better camera.

iPhone i now going to have Enterprise support

Wow...I used one for a while and I liked it but lack of corporate email made me come back to HTC. I have had the opportunity to play with both side by side and the iPhone is just easier to work with....everything is smooth and works.
I love windows mobile phonews but I was always upgrading the firmware and trying different things to essentially get my kaiser to perform like an iPhone.
Whenever this does become available I'll be most likely defecting again.......
Now all I need is AD2P support so I can use my motorola S9 and I'm golden.
I wonder what this will do to sales for the Windows Mobile market and blackberry's.
Wonder if HTc won't do something stupid like make a good phone like the kaiser and then turnaround cripple it by not buying the licneses for the drivers needed it for it to perform as well as it could.

Kaiser forum?
No A2DP, 3G, MMS, and a bunch else...
I'll keep my Tilt.

Honestly 3G is something i very rarely use these days....i like a longer battery life. AD2P is only a software app away.
Oh yeah its not coming out until June.....basically around the time the 3G iPhone comes out.

3g is a must for me. I hate waiting web pages to load and youtube video to play.
Waiting for 3g iphone so I can test it out but I would rather buy the phone with WM7 when it's out.

My other issue with the iPhone is overall stability.
Right across from my cube at work, sits my friend, who is an Apple fan boy to the extreme... He spends almost his whole day using/playing with his iPhone, and I am constantly forced to endure his ranting and raving because Safari or Calender crash.
I would not consider myself a power user to the extremes of what the Kaiser is capable of, but at least it doesn't crash constantly under heavy use.

if one is to use phone network for data at all 3g is a must for me
another problem with iphone is that it dont support microSD or any type of flash even if it does have ok mb flash is good
and battery changing is an issue
last issue is programs wm have much much more both freeware and payware
good thing with iphones stk comming out
problem is that it's objectiveC which mean it will not be easy to port c++ and c# and such apps to iphone
another problem is that it seems that one can only develop those objectiveC apps from macs not pc's :S
other then that iphone is a coolcat

Now if only they can make iPhone compatible with ActiveSync!
For all the complaints people have with ActiveSync, I like it a LOT better than iTunes. I hate having to add everything to my iTunes library before I can copy it to the phone. I just want to mount it as a disk and copy my photos and MP3s to My Documents like I do with my Windows phones!
The iPhone is really nice in many ways, but I find Windows phones a lot more fun to play with, crappy QVGA screens, slow 200MHz IMAP processors, and all.

I really wanted the IPhone, but in the end I got the Touch Cruise...
My decisions was based on
1. No Copy/Paste
2. No Bluetooth Voice Dialing
3. No A2DP
4. No MMS
5. No removeable battery
5. No Flash support
6. No option to save anything from the browser
7. No video recording
8. No 3G
9. No MS Office editing
To me the Iphone in current state is more of a webbrowser with a Ipod, and then some phone and pda features thrown in. I have no doubt that once Apple fixes these glaring omisions, many of us will convert.

maybe because windows mobile always seem to have been the redheaded stepchild of ms
their evolution seem to be at the same pace af the nature counterparts
if we dident have developers for the platform it would be a stale boring even seen with business eyes
kinda like dos lived on as a rather text bases shell while atari st and comodore amiga had gui desktops even with icons which could be as large as you would want them to which even vista today dont support

Rudegar said:
maybe because windows mobile always seem to have been the redheaded stepchild of ms
their evolution seem to be at the same pace af the nature counterparts
if we dident have developers for the platform it would be a stale boring even seen with business eyes
kinda like dos lived on as a rather text bases shell while atari st and comodore amiga had gui desktops even with icons which could be as large as you would want them to which even vista today dont support
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Click to collapse
I agree 100%, its really sad that Windows Mobile pretty much looks and acts the same as it did almost 10 years ago when WinCe 1.0 was around. MS seems to lack the ability to innovate, they can only duplicate/improve upon. Even to the point of creating the Zune...at that point I could not for the life of me understand why MS decided to go that route instead of giving WM a serious multimedia overhall (or even doing both the Zume and a WM media overhall).
Now Apple beat them to the punch, and once again MS will be last in this foot race. Unfortunately for MS, Apple dealt a really really powerful blow with the IPhone. I have no doubt that with Apple's new Exchange Server features and the fact that they will eventually fix my above list of 9 IPhone omissions, MS will get buried.
Furthermore, as you said, what WM has going for it primarily is its developer base. Given the fact that the IPhone is selling so well, I have no doubt in my mind that the IPhone will eventually grow a larger developer base. That will be the nail in the coffin. WM7 will be too late to fix that.

"Now if only they can make iPhone compatible with ActiveSync!"
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7177.html
"Microsoft has licensed ActiveSync to Apple so that now Windows Mobile is not necessary to get good connection to Microsoft Exchange including push email, in other words: Apple iPhone connects to Microsoft Exchange not worse than Windows Mobile"
lol ok so who is wearing the wire?!

Rudegar said:
"Now if only they can make iPhone compatible with ActiveSync!"
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7177.html
"Microsoft has licensed ActiveSync to Apple so that now Windows Mobile is not necessary to get good connection to Microsoft Exchange including push email, in other words: Apple iPhone connects to Microsoft Exchange not worse than Windows Mobile"
lol ok so who is wearing the wire?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, yeah, I saw that headline yesterday... but I'm still skeptical.
Will it ONLY sync to Exchange? Or will it show up in Windows Mobile devices just like a PPC would, and can sync even to a local Outlook? I also really doubt it will allow one to drag & drop media into the iPhone via Windows Explorer like a Windows phone can. However, if it's possible for a programmer to connect to the ActiveSync driver (or kext or whatever they're called on the iPhone), then anything is possible.

A Windows mobile and an iPhone each have its' weaknesses and strengths. Owning both, they compliment each other (I use 2 different prepaid carriers so the monthly bills aren't that heavy). I used to think that I would never have any use for windows mobile, until I tried it. Now, I don't think I can ever be satisfied with a symbian phone. It was the same with the iPhone. You just have to own it to know its' strengths. Most of the weaknesses is addressed through unofficial native applications. Many may have different experiences but mine is pretty stable. My only gripe is with the non-replaceable battery. Looking at their other product line I don't think they will ever address that issue.

Here is my evaluation/2 cents
I have used both the Hermes and Iphone for side by side for quite sometime.
I finally came to the conclusion that the Iphone is the way to go, no questions about, although from time to time I do light up my Hermes and just stare at it for a while.
Ok...here is the deal. WM6 phones have more capabilities in terms of bells and whisTles but for all intensive purposes, the Iphone has just what I want and presented in a very convenient package.
1 - The Iphone screen size, resolution and quality and user interaction is unmatched by any wm6 device. Its just that simple.
2 - Yes wm6 devices may have 3G. Most of the time I use WIFI either at work or home. Even when outside my edge while slower than 3G is still very acceptable as I will not be in any hurry to look at webpages.
3G will cost you a fortune if you use it a lot.
Oh did I mention that the battery on my Hermes sucks big time with 3G on. Barely last a full day. Therefore for all day to day purposes WIFI and edge for me are fine.
3 - A2DP will be released through applications on the Iphone very soon.
4 - Explorer pocket edition is no match to Iphone's Safari. Its again just that simple
5 - Copying and pasting can be done on a jailbreaked Iphone. Its quite a simple matter these days.
6 - Why would I need micro sd when I got 8 gigs of storage? and now the new 16 gigs version.
7 - Removable battery? Why? My Iphones battery life just rocks! My hermes battery sucked! again no competition.
8 - Activesync will be supported on Iphone when the new firmware v2.0 hits this coming June. Oh did I mention that microsoft exchange will be supported too? But for now I am more than happy with my Iphone's email capabilities.
9 - No corporate email? Howcome? we have an exchange server at work and I get my email on my Iphone just like I did on my Hermes. and it is presented much better without the use of such other costly software such as Pocket Breeze.
10 - Camera? My Iphones 2 megpixel camera kicks ass compared to the my Hermes one. Even though it does not support zoom in natively. The main downside to the Iphones camera is it does not support video recording.
as you can see from the above Apple has created a beautiful and very practical peace of gadgetry and I just love it.
But again this is just my personal opinion.

etreby71, after using the iPhone exclusively for just a few days, I completely agree. The iPhone does not have as many features, but what it does do, it does much better than WM6. I also gave my wife an iPhone to replace her T-Mobile Dash. She LOVED the Dash, but it didn't take long for her to warm up to the iPhone and she likes it much better than the Dash now.
My only complaints with the iPhone:
1. iTunes is required to copy media/files to the phone. I don't like having to run a program to copy files to the phone. I wish it would show up under My Computer like WM phones do, with direct access to the disks and ability to copy photos/music/videos directly to "My Documents".
2. I don't know what the SDK will bring, but right now with a jailbroken phone, you need to use Installer to install programs from online sources. I would much rather have downloadable files that I copy directly to the file system and can execute via File Manager like WM6 and .cab files.
3. I still would like a MicroSD slot, in the WM world, I keep backups of all my .cab files there so if I have to do a hard reset, I can easily reinstall everything. With the iPhone, I have to use that annoying Installer and also remember what all I had installed. I hope the SDK changes this though.
4. GPS would be nice as well, athough I don't really need it as I still have my HTC Titan that can use TomTom.
5. Weight - it's heavy. Although the metal construction and weight makes it feel great to hold and feels of quality, it feels a little uncomfortable in my pants pocket. I'd be happy to trade it for a cheaper-feeling plastic version for less weight.
Overall though, I would have to say the iPhone is definitely a far slicker and more refined device than any WM6 phone.

I have an iphone and a orbit 2.
I prefer the orbit 2 not because of the interface because the iphone's interface is better but.
I can run satnav on my xda, not on iphone.
Install what i want not on iphone without installer and then you are limited to what you can do.
play music via bluetooth headphones, no a2dp on iphone until apple releases there bt headphones at a nice price...
no hsdpa, no 3g required in todays mobile age edge is not even the bleeding edge of technology.
No GPS so no satnav or other gps software dont make me laugh with google maps and triangulation.
its no were near as configurable and you cannot tweak it to your own tastes as you can the wm device.
Live with the iphone for a few months then you will find out its just a ipod that makes phone calls and surfs the web, gimmik and wears off after a while.
To have the stylus and your finger is the best all round input method, fingers alone are the iphones greatest strength and weakness, try typing a sms with two fingers and you will spend more time on the back space then type words, even with the complete.
I can type quicker iphone style keyboard on the xda with the stylus and just as quick with my fingers.
Email is a nightmare, deleting multiple messages, trying to use the left to right delete method usually ends up reading the messgae and not deleting it.
the only good thing with the iphone at the moment is the interface, until apple get there head from there axse and allow people to develop software to the level of the xda then it will never take the top spot.
Apple make good stuff, it looks good on the outside but deep down they build in too many limitations, if it was never jailbroken like they intended it would be a very good paper weight thats makes phones calls.
don't get me wrong i love the interface and i have spent a couple of hours getting my orbit 2 looking like one, and i liked the interface alot.
but at the end of the day its a gimmik that wears off, you will end up just using it as a phone and ipod unless apple release the leash and let the community do its thing.
My iphone is going on ebay and i am buying a 8gb nano for the car interface i put in.
When apple, put in a gps, hsdpa, open up the os to allow proper 3rd party apps, they i am sure i will go and buy one.
but until then the wm device is still top for the hardened pda user.
hope its does not sound like i hate the iphone because i don't but don't try and sell it as the best of the best sir !! because its not got that crown yet...

the overall killer for me for the iphone is its lack of a keyboard.. yea yea yea it has an all-touch keyboard but that's useless in my opinion. plus i watched myspace crash safari twice in a row. plus that itunes virus you have to install to move music. i will never install that. ever.

I have used both the Hermes and Iphone for side by side for quite sometime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ertreby71, I can't figure out why you are comparing the iPhone to your Hermes. At least make it a fair comparison lets say a Touch Cruise vs an iPhone or a TytnII vs an iPhone. You'll quickly find that your advantages start to fall prey to many disadvantages that I had listed on page 1. If given the choice, I'd buy my over Touch Cruise ever time, until maybe the 2nd gen iPhone comes around and Apple makes the phone less restrictive and puts in the rest of the pretty basic features its missing.

I think for many people, the disadvantages of the iPhone are really a non-issue. Many don't use or need any of what the iPhone lacks that were listed on the 1st page. I know very little of that actually affects my usage. The all-touch keyboard is actually rather easy to get used to. I still make mistakes and am not nearly as accurate on it as I am on the Titan's keyboard, but it's really better than I expected.
What really impresses me most about the iPhone is the hardware. The HVGA display is simply stunning. The detail is very impressive and makes the QVGA on my HTC devices look downright crude in comparison.
The smoothness and intuitiveness of the UI is also very impressive. You can tell there is a lot of processing power behind the device. I would really like to see someone write an emulator that runs WM6 for the iPhone just for grins.

I would buy an iPhone if you could buy a truely Sim free version that you could upgrade the Firmware as and when Apple release new Firmware, instead of having an iPhone that is open to upgrades if you pay 260.00 for the phone and be locked to a 35.00 a Month 18 Month contract on O2.
Roland

Should I buy or not

So I'm thinking of giving my Athena a rest and changing to something else.
I have an offer for cheap Shift but as I have read the device is crippled by default. No surprise there as this seems to be the trend with HTC devices in general.
So is there any news on getting Shift to do actual phone calls with bluetooth headset? I don't want to carry two devices with me.
Hope this doesn't turn into a war like the other threads related Shift and its phone cababilities

Just buy the shift and wait There's no news apart from all the news you already read in the other posts. Believe me, as soon as there's a ROM with voice calling, Shift sales will rise, and this forum will crash under the load of puppy-happy owners.
Do not.. I repeat, do NOT hold your breath. And where is the "war" going on ? I see only consensus here.

Also, bear in mind that it may never actually be possible to make phone calls with the Shift (other than over IP anyway). I'm only saying this because there are an awful lot of people with very high hopes over what will be possible to do with the Shift, but precious little evidence that most of it will come to pass.
My personal belief is that voice calling will be possible at some point in the future, but you'll never be able to use a Bluetooth headset with it because the Bluetooth radio just isn't connected to the WinMo side of the device, but this is only an opinion and not a fact!
Regards,
Dave

Please consider this
saeros said:
So I'm thinking of giving my Athena a rest and changing to something else.
I have an offer for cheap Shift but as I have read the device is crippled by default. No surprise there as this seems to be the trend with HTC devices in general.
So is there any news on getting Shift to do actual phone calls with bluetooth headset? I don't want to carry two devices with me.
Hope this doesn't turn into a war like the other threads related Shift and its phone cababilities
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you wish to have a good PDA ?
- This is not the best PDA "yet"
- Too many risk to take, just to have unsatisfied unlocked feature of PDA "at this moment"
- Too big, better buy HTC Touch Pro or Experia 1
Do you wish to have good UMPC ?
- With good tweaking of downsized the RAM consumption (mine was only 550meg running vista), you will have mediocre speed of UMPC, wanna get faster ? better use XP or Ubuntu
- Still, the speed is not that powerfull compare to other cheap intel atom cpu UMPC
- Need more money to improve the battery life, but your device will get thicker, or real pain by using external charger
Do you wish to have both ?
- By far, you only have 2 choices, either this brick or Dualcor CPC (this peace of sh*t that put shift in real trouble)
Why I buy Shift ?
- Got my sentimental reason, I have old vendetta with Sony UX that is too small to use as UMPC, and I like HTC cause got a lot of friends here to help me out
- Other than that, pure hobby, cause i will use Diamond to get the most of PDA
If only ...
- Can access SD (mine was 16gb sdhc)
- RAM upgrade on Vista
- Accelerometer enabled (at this moment only in linux)
- I dont need video/voice call on shift, what for ??, its too big, sms is enough
Other considerations ?
- Fujitsu U1010 and Diamond
If you got good price offer of Shift, make sure that you really want to take risk by unlocking your expensive device

In Finland you can get HTC Shift for 800€ from one of our service providers. That is correct price for this kind of device, because those limitations (bluetooth, SD-card, Phone). I just ordered one.

Help me replace my laptop with something brand new...

So, right now, I have a desktop PC and a laptop PC that I use on a regular basis. The desktop is my master system and is good for another 2 years definitely. My laptop has been aging and we're on the verge of a revolution in small PCs.
I have a Dell XPS M140 that I upgraded to 2GB RAM. It has 80GB of hard disk space, CD/DVD burner, and Windows 7. It's getting old and I wondered if everyone could chip in some advice for a replacement.
I spent like $600 on it originally, so I'd like to stick with that price or less. I use it to browse the web and watch internet videos on it while I play XBox360 or when I have people over. I use it to feed to my TV when I have a movie to watch (movie file, not a DVD). I also take it with me on any vacations in the hotel room to keep connected to the internet.
For a replacement, I'm looking for the following...
-CD/DVD drive
-video out
-at least 120GB of disk space
-ability to run Windows 7 Ultimate with Aero
-ability to have 2GB of RAM at least
-USB ports
-Wifi (of course)
-A good processor
-HARD keyboard
-multitouch screen
-$600 or less
Preferred but optional
-ethernet port
-webcam
-4 USB ports
There may not be anything out there just yet that meets all the requirements, but if anything's close, let me know.

I have a Dell XPS M140 too. Great system. I loved the battery life -- 7.5 hours when I bought it like 3 or 4 years ago. But now its old and I rarely use it.
I've migrated to a Samsung N120 netbook. The keyboard is great even though its smaller form factor. The portability is excellent. It's so comfortable to use even with the 97% sized keyboard and 10" screen that I am still able to do most of my programming on it. So it can be used every day for hours with no eye strain or me wanting to throw it cause the keyboard is awkward. I love it.
I've run Windows 7 on it and it runs great once I upgraded it to 2GB. I did go thru the Windows Services and set to manual/disable some of those that I don't need (heavy networking ones) that made it a little faster. It can run OSX too as a side benefit. You can pop in a 640GB in here for cheap if you feel comfortable taking it apart.
I know there is going to be complaints about the processor speed...its a slow Atom. For daily browsing use its not that much difference than the M140's 1.73ghz P-Mobile. I do agree that its slow on Youtube videos and having multiple flash animations on the same page. The newer generation of netbooks are faster and will probably do a better job. Also Adobe is releasing a new version of Flash very soon that they have tweaked and stating would allow the Netbook to view Youtube without the jitters.
If you already have a desktop that is powerful enough for the heavy lifting tasks (photoshopping/video editing/filesharing/etc) then if I were you I would look into a netbook for its portability and convenience. It can still photoshopping btw, just going to take a little longer with the filters and handling large image sizes. And of course it is harder on the small screen.
You can get a great netbook in the $300-350 and get an external slim DVD burner for $50. If you do a lot of traveling or working away from home like at a cafe or just like having it on your lap surfing while you are in front of the TV, a 10" netbook is the way to go.

for the touchscreen thing,
i think you should buy additional hardware such as DUO.

Hmm. Very interesting! Thanks for the feedback.
I really appreciate that another M140 user out there has spoken. I haven't found anyone with this "XPS mini"!
When I upgraded to Windows 7, I can't believe how smooth everything ran. It really sold Windows 7 for me. Yeah, my desktop was faster but, wow, it turned by old M140 into a new PC. I haven't done much programming since college and even then, I did more making Counterstrike maps on their CAD-like interface software than anything.
I was really considering netbooks and your advice fits in well. I like the idea of add-on hardware like DUO to make anything touchscreen, but I would like to be ahead of the game with my new purchase. I felt like even my M140 purchase was behind the game. My desktop was nicely fit with a quad-core masterpiece at the time. Now it's commonplace.
I think a netbook fits my needs perfectly, but maybe I'm waiting for the next wave to include multitouch netbooks. The technology is definitely there, and fortunately it shouldn't be that expensive. I was waiting for someone to post the latest Eee multitouch PC, but I know that the processor is child's play.
I guess I see myself owning 3 systems...
Desktop PC - currently fulfilled need
Multitouch PC - for portability and ahead of the game portacomputing
Slate Phone - I know there's phones and then there's slates, but I won't be buying a replacement for my Rhodium until a nice slate phone arrives (with slide out hard keyboard, of course)
These 3 systems will practically make me have a mess in my pants. We're on the verge of #2, but I know I might have to wait 2 years for a good #3.
I'm staying away from virtual keyboards forever. I know how they are and I know what they can do, but I cannot accept 30 wpm slower. Unacceptable.
Great advice guys, and I really do appreciate your input. Tablet PCs are going to erupt soon, to prove that the iPad is garbage. And I just can't wait for the results. I dream of a day when I can just pop out my multitouch netbook in the comfy Hyatt hotel bed and respond to the next great XDA post.

I actually was looking tonight and there really isn't anything out there right now. I really hope this market picks up. The closest thing is the newest Eee PC, with a processor at 1.66 MHz. My M140 is at 1.73, so I can't go lower. Let's hope for a nice push in products...
Dell should hit this up. The only Multitouch tablet they offer is over $2k!!!!

I bought a LOADED HP tx2000z two years ago because I thought that I'd actually use the touchscreen/wacom digitizer. Boy was I wrong. 2000 bucks later, I honestly wish I would have bought a macbook pro over this POS.
Using a mouse or keyboard still is faster. Windows is not designed well for using a touch screen. Plus, that tiny swivel point where the screen connects to the rest of the computer isn't quite as strong as I had once thought, and all the wiring inside of it, over time, starts to get shorts in it. My sound crackles as I swivel the screen. Also, HP doesn't have the best of build quality in general. However, the digitizer does do an excellent job of speeding things up in photoshop.
My advise: Stay away from laptops with touch screens. Unless you spend the majority of your time in photoshop, it won't be worth it.

got the earlier tx1270 little brother of tx2000z
it get too hot to use in tablet mode and it's too fat and it makes too much noise
speedfan say the gpu is 89c in idle
the heat caused the wifi to stop working
but it was good for reading eComics on if I could stand the heat
I'm not put off tablets yet though
what laptop to get is really down to what one use it for
if it's surfing in the sofa netbooks are great and got long batt
but some people like to game on their laptops in which case they end up having to pay
a lot
got 2 dell work laptops both ugly and plastic'ish but better quality then crappy hp
and got a acer very underpowered one but manage with xubuntu
gf got a new macbook pro cost an arm and leg and kidney but the build quality is pretty good
osx remind me of linux really in a closed platform version though
if I were looking to get a laptop now I would look at tablets without combi keyboard option like the hp got
otherwise I would look at asus eebooks or whatever they are called

Hmm, good points. I guess my consideration for getting something with multitouch is basically to make sure that I'm consistent with the market. If that's what people are buying, I want to have my copy, just in case software erupts for it.
But I'm surprised at the story about the shoddy HP hardware.
I could, however, see how I can use a touchscreen with Windows 7. I won't touch Apple products because they don't suit my needs, but I guess that's why I won't spend $2k on a tablet PC. It sounds like it's just not worth that much.

Rudegar said:
got the earlier tx1270 little brother of tx2000z
it get too hot to use in tablet mode and it's too fat and it makes too much noise
speedfan say the gpu is 89c in idle
the heat caused the wifi to stop working
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had the SAME exact problems with my tx1219. Too loud, too hot, wifi stops working, and also the touchscreen is horrible.
I've only worked with the tx2000 for 10 minutes, so I can't comment on the problems, but the the touchscreen was really good on it.

yeah tx2000 and up have vacom active digtizer and some got capative with dual touch
but I don't trust their quality so even if they look good on papir I don't want to pay that much with such a high risk of being ripped off