Database Develop

Happy WM 6.1 users join here

Wow. Unbelievable how many threads are opened with problem with the newly released ROM at HTC-e Club. I downloaded my version too from that site the moment I saw announcement here. First of all, I did not get a mail from HTC at all, should have liked that in the first place.
I decided not yet to install. Luckily a good decision it seems according to that huge list of complaints.
Normally a forum is always only full of complaints, no one is posting when all things a good (enough), so that is not surprising me at all.
But of all users that installed this new ROM version, aren't there any people who are satisfied? That is what I was wondering. So just leave you name and a message here if all works well, so I can be convinced to also try this new version myself.
[Edit]Hopefully this list will be long [/Edit]

Apart from a few complaints that I had, I think that there are actually many things that are improved, for example the graphics when you turn portrait to landscape...and this is a remarkable one. And also, you are able to 'zoom in' in the latest Internet Explorer (WM6.1 standard one).

i was happy user with WM 2003, and later with WM2003 SE, and later with WM5, and later with WM6, and now with WM6.1... so you can say i'm a happy user in general i beleave you can be a happy user with any Mobile OS... i beleave is a choice...
Cheers

Very happy here. I'm running the official 6.1 ROM with the accompanying HTC SPL (overwriting the Hard SPL I used previously, as mine is a Vodafone branded phone) and it's far more responsive device - no more pauses or missed button presses, very little waiting around generally, and certain tasks like browsing files are markedly quicker. The new features (threaded SMS and improved IE) are good, having the camera and bluetooth fixes in ROM is worthwhile, and the whole package just feels like a much better, snappier device.
If I had to criticise it on anything, I'd say that at times the GPS can be slower to get a lock on - but then, at other times, it seems very quick - so I probably need to test that some more.

Im pretty happy myself
especially when I go from portrait to landscape
it loads up the screen real fast.

Found no grounds for complaints as of now (4 days and counting). Using the SWE version of the official update.

Happy user here!

corleno said:
Im pretty happy myself
especially when I go from portrait to landscape
it loads up the screen real fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here.

me happy 2

Yes I confim being happy by the new official 6.1 release from HTC ... I was never happy with any cooked rom except with only one 2003 rom I had to cook it myself to add certain applications I didn't want to loose them with hard reset ...
with so much due respect to all gurus and chefs here, but playing with the core components and registry tweaks are not gauarnteed to hold against all types of applications a user may decide to install later ... actually this is the main reason for most of complaints.
I only didn't like the new threaded sms, but it's only a matter of small tweak .. but all the rest is so fine for me.

After about 3 flashes. a lil bit contented... but not happy.
The only reason i stick with this official rom is because i am kind of a purist, there are other very good roms from various cooks on this forum. But i prefer this one becasue its just generic* and i consider it pure from the manufacturer without person tweaks as a result of peoples personal preferences.

Sorry, I'm NOT happy with the latest official HTC 6.1 ROM.
BUT, I'm running udK's Vega R0 WM6.1 ROM for weeks, and I'm very happy with that one!

I'm very happy with the original release! It's working very fast here.
My screen flips very fast too.

But if you were to try the HTC rom with the HTC SPL your opinion might change!
Personally, I think, like Boingg, that the new ROM is great PROVIDED you re-install the HTC SPL.
As another person also said, there are some very good cooked ROM's here, but while they introduce some speed/performance improvements, they can also introduce their own bugs. One cook in particular seems intent on providing quantity over quality by uploading a new ROM seemingly every hour - always amuses me when I read the responses, like 'What a great rom, I am wetting myself its sooooooo good!! - By the way, here's a list of the bugs I found' (This isn't a direct quote, but you get the idea!!). I think at the end of day that the ROM that has been designed for a particular device will always be better than one that has been manhandled from elsewhere - although some of the ported ROM's do get pretty close, there is always some niggle or other.
Anyway, I will stop rambling.... yes I am happy with the HTC ROM but I reserve the right to re-flash at any time!

I'm using the WWE version and am happy with it so far.

rubinho93 said:
I'm very happy with the original release! It's working very fast here.
My screen flips very fast too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol ... it draws in the background and displays it latter
no not fast actually... same speed about 2~5 seconds depends @cache (I think)

Doemaarwat said:
Wow. Unbelievable how many threads are opened with problem with the newly released ROM at HTC-e Club. I downloaded my version too from that site the moment I saw announcement here. First of all, I did not get a mail from HTC at all, should have liked that in the first place.
I decided not yet to install. Luckily a good decision it seems according to that huge list of complaints.
Normally a forum is always only full of complaints, no one is posting when all things a good (enough), so that is not surprising me at all.
But of all users that installed this new ROM version, aren't there any people who are satisfied? That is what I was wondering. So just leave you name and a message here if all works well, so I can be convinced to also try this new version myself.
[Edit]Hopefully this list will be long [/Edit]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you plan on doing something with this data/poll/etc....
Or is this a venting thread
This is a developer's forum .... not tech support or customer service
The purpose of this forum is to develop
If you've been around these devices for a while, you'll know that factory ROMz are the worst. Page Pools are set low, they contain alot of unwanted bloatware for compaines to brand their devices and as a result of this, storage space is low.
These ROMz however, provide a base for devlopers to work with. These are the ROMz that 95% of us have on our devices. On that note, we should be thankful that ROMz are updated by manufacturers....beacuase, again it provides raw materials to work with.
Try joining a manufacturer or carrier forum where thoughts & concerns of the ROMz in question can be viewed by representatives of the manufacturers.
Rom behavior:
There's no such thing as a perfect ROM. Some work better than others. What works good for me on my device may not work for you....
Factory or Cooked

D W N Y +1
Development is the name of the game. Move the thread to Walala land
And no, you should not be fooled feling "happy" with a glimp of possibilities provided by HTC. Nice quote "raw materials".
(and believe me, I DO know how they "develop" @ HTC here. They still learn from our own chefs (from outside the mouth of the horse)

I am Glad to see the WWE Official version out now.
Now that the Official version is out I will wait for our resident cooks to make a good rom out of it. Since the first day I got the Tilt I Hard SPL'ed it and got rid of the AT&T bloat and flashed a Schaps rom. I did try the new WWE from HTC but had some problems with it but I didn't take the time to try a different radio. So I am sure with the correct radio it would have been better then the one it came with. Depending on where you live your carrier and the service offered in your area have a lot to do with what radio works best. At least that has been my experience. But the one thing I know that is I seem to prefer the cooked roms if they use an official base. So I will wait and hopefully Schaps will be releasing soon. Thats my 2 cents!
Ed...

happy user, but could be happier.

Regarding D3D drivers

Hi folks. Sorry to start a new thread but there's something bugging me around here. If by any chance you mods think this post is useless please close it and accept my apologies.
It's known to the most of you that the first version of drivers didn't worked on all roms. That issue forced the developers to do a workaround and slow down the process to get it working on those roms and created a new set of drivers that is not so fast as the first one.
So... i was thinking on this and decided to start a poll in order to give a hand to the developers in wich way they should follow. What do you prefer?
A Gold XDA based ROM with fastest drivers and less compatibility with all roms? (forcing all XDA members to flash their phones - not a big deal i presume)
Or a set of drivers compatible with most of the roms but with slower performance?
I know this is a controversial issue and the urge of the drivers working on our kaisers is huge but i think we would have more if we had a custom GOLD XDA rom
Just My 2 cents
Cheers,
Draco

kinda seems like a no-brainer honestly (unless you're petrified to flash or just despise 6.1). They will develop said drivers and you have a million chefs making a million roms from them...

Fared said:
kinda seems like a no-brainer honestly (unless you're petrified to flash or just despise 6.1). They will develop said drivers and you have a million chefs making a million roms from them...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no problems at all flashing my phone. I assume that there are some people who are not comfortable doing that but.... this is XDA. And if they are here that's because we all want to get the most out of our phones. And that is the tricky part of this poll. Developing the drivers based on one specific rom ( a ported one form Diamond or Raphael or an official kaiser one ) will be the more accurate and fastest way to get there.
Again... just my 2 cents
Draco

first:
flashing rom is a non-trivial task for a huge majority of users. leaving them out in the cold sounds like a very selfish position. If not for this reason, maybe avoiding a flood of "I bricked my tilt, help !!!!" threads may be a better one.
second:
Anyway, as i understood it what is slowing down FPS in the new version is the enabled VSync, which yields less tearing and improved smoothness (sounds like a shaver commercial, i'm afraid). I don't know what the refresh rate of a kaiser LCD is, but anything higher than 75fps (ie 15ms refresh rate) is a complete waste.

draxredd said:
second:
flashing rom is a non-trivial task for a huge majority of users. leaving them out in the cold sounds like a very selfish position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all draxredd. Although i'm a junior member this is the second time i'm on XDA. I'm here for almost 7 years. Believe me, this is not a selfish position. As i was able to get some help to start flashing all of the members here on XDA will get that help too. The first time i flashed my first phone i was scared to death but... it's all the same. It only hurts the first time.
As i stated before this is just my opinion. The more roms the developers must include in the drivers development process, the more difficult it will be and much more time will be wasted.
Draco

haste... makes waste.
And if only one rom was to be designated as a target for the driver, it has to be the official HTC one, for two reasons:
- enabling driver support for a huge majority of users
- sticking it to HTC, deep.

draxredd said:
And if only one rom was to be designated as a target for the driver, it has to be the official HTC one, for two reasons:
- enabling driver support for a huge majority of users
- sticking it to HTC, deep.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about performance issues? Doesn't that count as well?
Anyway.... i've started the poll just to check your opinion against wide compatibility among all the roms versus one specific rom fully optimized. Let's not get far from the main question
By the way... my kaiser has the official 6.1 rom from HTC... for now
cheers,
Draco

I'm for Flashing myself, but the in the ideal world both sollutions would be best so no one comes off short. However the kind developers should be aiming at the most stable of the 2 first.
Looking at the driver progress it looks like theyre slowly getting there and getting the driver to work on the latest 6.1 roms

I voted for compatibility with the official ROM, simply because it's an identifiable standard that everyone recognises, and which everyone has on their phone by default. Cooked ROMs are great, but they're all individual, designed by individuals and used by individuals with the same tastes/needs - not one of them will suit everyone else, with or without drivers, whereas drivers released for the official ROM should work with pretty much everything else.
It's too early to say whether drivers developed for the standard ROM will always be slower than those for a cooked version, and I'm sure the very brilliant developer of those drivers will do their best to minimise any performance loss, assuming their is any in the longterm.
Vastly improved performance for the majority (and what that means for sales of the Touch Pro etc) has to take priority over a marginally improved performance in a niche ROM, aimed at an elite few, surely? At the end of the day it's entirely down to the developer what they do, irrespective of any poll here, but that's my take on it anyway.

Maybe i didn't expose correctly my idea.
There isn't any XDA Gold rom nor any kind of perfect ROM. The XDA Gold rom is just a concept and the first name that crossed my mind.
This is a big community and has some big brains around here. The exchange of knowledge bettween everyone is a plus and that opens a big wide world to explore.
So.... let's just imagine this scenario, ok?
The developers will pick a base rom. It really doesn't matter if it is a ported rom or a Official one. Preferably one that is fast and stable enough. The driver will be written over that rom. Users (those who want obviously) will test the rom for bugs and then chefs will try to cook out a 100% clean (note that by clean i mean a rom just as close as an official rom regarding to apps) fast and stable rom.
Of course this is just a crazy ideia but that i was thinking of. Create the first genuine XDA rom based on one device.
Note that there are many roms out there based on diferent releases. Make the drivers compatible with all of them will make the development process slow down and eventualy fail. That's the main reason i started this thread.
Now that the concept of the "XDA Gold rom" was properly explained (i hope) let's get on with the poll.
Draco

DracoLX said:
Now that the concept of the "XDA Gold rom" was properly explained (i hope) let's get on with the poll.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as "XDA Gold" = HTC Latest Official version I cant see a problem. It's when drivers are developed for anything other than the official ROM that we'll encounter problems. All the chefs can base their designs starting with official ROMs and work out from there. In the end it will depend on whether those developing the drivers want to satisfy the larger number using official ROMs or those using Custom ROMs where the chef has not saught to maintain driver compatibility. I've therefore not voted because it depends whether "XDA Gold" does in fact = HTC Latest Official version - we weren't told.

Are you even sure that theifference is that huge?
They might be able to provide two sets to cover all ends without much additional work.

DracoLX said:
Note that there are many roms out there based on diferent releases. Make the drivers compatible with all of them will make the development process slow down and eventualy fail. That's the main reason i started this thread.
Now that the concept of the "XDA Gold rom" was properly explained (i hope) let's get on with the poll.
Draco
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO, The drivers only need to be compatible with an official based rom. It's up to the chefs to make the drivers work with their rom. Now, if the root of the compatibility issue can be resolved, I think things can progress forward at a faster rate.

DracoLX said:
It's known to the most of you that the first version of drivers didn't worked on all roms. That issue forced the developers to do a workaround and slow down the process to get it working on those roms and created a new set of drivers that is not so fast as the first one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FALSE. Two separate issues.
First, is dlls load differently between stock or hacked/cooked roms due to memory mangling by G'realoc going into cooked roms. An attempt to fix that was in the updated release.
Two, the screen update style in the first release was really just a hack that hijacked DDI's screen refresh routines. The 2nd release finally got the 'official' way to work so the hack was removed.

I voted faster...there isn't any other reason I came to XDA other than customizing.
Anyone who doesn't want a faster cellphone won't appreciate the new D3D drivers anyway.

There are may reasons the XDA Gold Rom (HTC Original 6.1) may be slower. Cooks reduce the software on the rom and use newer software versions, these may be faster than the previous ones.
Also this software is not from the Kaiser sometimes these may be causing the incompatiblity problems with the drivers.
The HTC original rom is slower to start than most cooked roms anyway, so way wouldn't the 3d drivers also run slower.
I decided not to vote, I think speed is a non issue as long as the drivers work on the HTC original rom, and are stable. You will always get rom's that perform faster, that's what cooks do round here.
I also don't think you would get a big jump in performance writing for just one rom, the hardware is the same in all the HTC Kaiser's handsets. Software can only make small difference to the performance of hardware if the drivers are written correctly.

personally i would love the drivers in a rom like dutty's diamond v1, but i think building them into a standard(ish) htc rom is best for the comunity; it sticks it to htc best as it shows u guys can do what they couldn't(or wouldn't), and makes flashing a rom feel safer to noobs.
and anyway we all know within hours of a rom with the drivers being released there will be dozens of cooked versions for all tastes with the drivers included too.

[Q] Cooked roms v shipped roms

'I am a flasher and proud of it!' oops that it wasn't meant to come out like that.
I have always flashed my HTC devices with cooked roms, the reason is the great chefs iron out bugs that the official HTC devs maybe didn't have time (or the ability?) to do. This makes them generally more stable and faster, however i have never been with a device at the beginning, meaning when the cooking first starts.
So far with the HD i have been underwhelmed by the current crop of cooked roms, this considering we have such amazing chefs on here such as Dutty and Laurentius to name 2. I have found all of them unstable slow and unresponsive so much so that i have re-flashed the shipped rom.
i want to know is this just because we are at the beginning with this device or is it that maybe it was an optimised rom in the first place?
I don't want to insult any of the chefs, these are the very people who have sorted and made so many of my phones fantastic. Furthermore i have nothing but respect for anyone willing to share their work with a stranger, this is a genuinely honest question.

have you tried all the ROMs available
i had the same impressions as you about stability
or my phone just did not like them
but then i tried "a Touch of HD" by kwbr
awesome clean fast and stable ROM,
it doesn't need to be updated every few days because of bugs,
because it doesn't throw everything in (a ton of 3rd party apps), but it's also NOT anemic (very close to stock).
anyway i'm happy but the point is maybe try a few other ROMs
to find the one that suits you and your phone

Sir.B said:
anyway i'm happy but the point is maybe try a few other ROMs
to find the one that suits you and your phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i will try that rom next time i have time to re flash. The main problem i have and i'm sure many other people have is my phone is a busy phone and i just don't have the time to keep trying roms. Your advice is good specific advice which is hard to find when sifting through massive rom threads!
A question, do you think that the cooked roms have improved the performance of the HD?

donbronzi said:
'I am a flasher and proud of it!' oops that it wasn't meant to come out like that.
I have always flashed my HTC devices with cooked roms, the reason is the great chefs iron out bugs that the official HTC devs maybe didn't have time (or the ability?) to do. This makes them generally more stable and faster, however i have never been with a device at the beginning, meaning when the cooking first starts.
So far with the HD i have been underwhelmed by the current crop of cooked roms, this considering we have such amazing chefs on here such as Dutty and Laurentius to name 2. I have found all of them unstable slow and unresponsive so much so that i have re-flashed the shipped rom.
i want to know is this just because we are at the beginning with this device or is it that maybe it was an optimised rom in the first place?
I don't want to insult any of the chefs, these are the very people who have sorted and made so many of my phones fantastic. Furthermore i have nothing but respect for anyone willing to share their work with a stranger, this is a genuinely honest question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am very critical mate and I felt the same tried most which I found better than the shipped ROM I had from Orange for various reasons but speed seemed average until I tried Davideuck V3 - it feels so darn responsive I thought I had a new phone! Of course that is my view and others may say different but hey.
Hard reset after flashing (woops that can sound a little dodgy too depends how twisted your mind is...)

donbronzi said:
A question, do you think that the cooked roms have improved the performance of the HD?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from stock?
most definitely!

CutePinkSox said:
I am very critical mate and I felt the same tried most which I found better than the shipped ROM I had from Orange for various reasons but speed seemed average until I tried Davideuck V3...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried that rom and found it a little sluggish, ie missed calls because of lack of responsiveness, i also had trouble installing Igo8. That rom is was the first that made me think the cooked roms where getting somewhere but then it still felt too buggy?
I need it to be stable.
CutePinkSox said:
Hard reset after flashing (woops that can sound a little dodgy too depends how twisted your mind is...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flashing is a dodgy business!

Im still using duttys 1.5, before that tried few but i found this most stable and fast. I wouldnt swap back to stock anymore.
So faaast this is :> waiting 1.8 version to come if theres some new shiny things. 1.6 and 1.7 werent so high priority so didnt update to those.

tunppi said:
Im still using duttys 1.5, before that tried few but i found this most stable and fast. I wouldnt swap back to stock anymore.
So faaast this is :> waiting 1.8 version to come if theres some new shiny things. 1.6 and 1.7 werent so high priority so didnt update to those.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My first cooked rom was Duttys 1.7 and i found it no faster, more buggy and less stable than my original rom.
Have flashed touch of HD this morning and really hope that i can tell the difference. SO far i am still not convinced!

donbronzi said:
My first cooked rom was Duttys 1.7 and i found it no faster, more buggy and less stable than my original rom.
Have flashed touch of HD this morning and really hope that i can tell the difference. SO far i am still not convinced!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
try davideucks v3.. it really convinced me

donbronzi said:
I tried that rom and found it a little sluggish, ie missed calls because of lack of responsiveness, i also had trouble installing Igo8. That rom is was the first that made me think the cooked roms where getting somewhere but then it still felt too buggy?
I need it to be stable.
Flashing is a dodgy business!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I respect your point of view but, from my point of view I can't think that there's no difference between cooked and shipped roms. Before starting to cook my rom, I've tried the dutty one too, and the difference with the official one is consistent. And I think this is the same for all cooked roms here. Obviusly some are much stable, others not, but you can simply try them and chose the best for you.
After this, excuse me, but what version of IGO8 are you using??
I've IGO v8.3.2.64029 and works perfect on mine device, and I think I'm not the only one, other people have wrote that IGO runs well on mine rom.
Then, you could simply post in my thread and even you would have gotten useful suggestions

davideuck said:
After this, excuse me, but what version of IGO8 are you using??
I've IGO v8.3.2.64029 and works perfect on mine device, and I think I'm not the only one, other people have wrote that IGO runs well on mine rom.
Then, you could simply post in my thread and even you would have gotten useful suggestions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry mate, i agree with you totaly should have posted this on your thread and will do now. I did think your rom was the best i'd tried actually, really liked the look of the rom as well. I have IGO8 8.1 something something. It wouldn't install, it started then just ended. I had this problem on another rom as well.
My point is that hte cooked roms are good, and some i've tried like yours are very good. Just i've noticed in alot of the cooked roms have issues with stability, sluggishness unresponsiveness etc which were't in the shipped rom.
My feeling on it are that the shipped rom was a pretty good starting point and unlike (for example) the Kaiser, the HD as an End user device is pretty much there (video isuues beside).
Just to reiterate this isnt in any way an insult to any of the cooks that grace XDA devs. You really are doing superb stuff!!

Always remember to hard reset after flashing, that could have some effect.
No idea how you cant see it but every game, touchflo, movies work waay better with proper custom roms like duttys and laurentius.
Couldnt watch some movies properly before flashing now every movie and video clip work smooth and not dropping frames or lagging sound.

I must admit that flashing cooked rom for Diamond seem to have more advancement in feature/speed/stability compared to the HD at this moment.
I'm currently flashing HD back to the stock rom from Dutty's 1.7. Dutty's rom wasn't bad, just it seems that the stock rom isn't shabby enough to make the change as of today.

jonathanguu said:
I must admit that flashing cooked rom for Diamond seem to have more advancement in feature/speed/stability compared to the HD at this moment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may be forgetting something important.. The Diamond has less memory to start with in the first place, so making a cleaner ROM for it can fix this problem by removing unimportant stuff. As for the HD, if I get 30-something percent of occupied memory when it WM is fully loaded - there's much less to be fixed...

At first with the Kaiser, the cooked roms were only a small improvement on the stock. But over time they just kept getting better and better as more problems were solved and more features added.
The HD is still quite new, but some great features like Flash in IE & opera, are starting to make a big difference between the stock & cooked roms.
I'm sure with more time the cooked roms will get incrementally better an better.
Shame a chef can't cook in a hardware keyboard for the HD!

DavidMc0 said:
At first with the Kaiser, the cooked roms were only a small improvement on the stock. But over time they just kept getting better and better as more problems were solved and more features added.
The HD is still quite new, but some great features like Flash in IE & opera, are starting to make a big difference between the stock & cooked roms.
I'm sure with more time the cooked roms will get incrementally better an better.
Shame a chef can't cook in a hardware keyboard for the HD!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah the HD is really new, the cooks and helpers are often getting ideas and apps from the Diamond forum. We'll catch up in time.
Cooking a hard keyboard into the ROM would be nice, but it sounds like black magic cooking!

DavidMc0 said:
At first with the Kaiser, the cooked roms were only a small improvement on the stock. But over time they just kept getting better and better as more problems were solved and more features added.
QUOTE]
This is what i really wanted to know, i didn't get the kaiser until it had been out for 4-5 months.
I have been using the touch of HD rom for the last couple of days, it does seem smoother and is definatly stable. Got some time now so will put it through its paces.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

my experience: with the trinity and the wizard, the limitations of the hardware were so stringent (ROM, CPU, drivers, GPS!) that tuning introduced very significant improvements. For example, my stock ROM was hiding the GPS, that appeared through cooked ROMs!!!!
The touch HD has a much more mature hardware, and it is born with the same windows mobile version we are all using. So, it is not surprising that available cooked rom, few months after its commercial release, are not so different in performances from the stock rom. In particular, REMOVING applications has a much less effect on the touch HD, since finally memory is not on the critical path...
Said this, i do feel that some cooked roms are faster than others, and some other ROMs are better tweaked but essentially stock roms. I can speak about my ROM: I changed the theme and tuned some settings, but it is essentially a stock ROM (latest release, but stock touch HD ROM). Other cooks have been able to introduce and experiment new features (drivers, pagepool) and, in my opinion, did a visible job in improving the basic performances. In this moment, i have to admit i am happily running DavideUck V3 and i have no problem in recognizing it is faster than the stock ROM 1.14 delivered with my HD.
Concerning stability, i have absolutely no issues with it. And yes - don't confuse radio roms with OS: radio ROM do introduce visible benefits also - but they are never cooked YET...

well i think all the chefs try and out do each other to a degree. (i mean no disrespect and some competition is good keeps them on there feet) they all want to cook the latest apps, radios and o/s builds and release first this means that they dont always get tested as well as they used to (hence slow buggy etc as theve being rushed and released for the hell of it). I and others had all these problems with the athena at the begining the 1st cooked rom for the device had obvious bugs like no sms ability or no incoming calls. and this was from a respected member of this community. i know excitement gets the better of all of us and id rather have some crap roms than no choice at all but with the current hardware i think its best to cook your own roms with a known stable rom as the base and cook in what you need or taken progs out.
Saying that ive not got around to cooking yet, I'm too lazy, but deffo ther best way forward
TOO MANY COOKS SPOIL THE BROTH

Cooking your own rom is indeed advantageous but i really haven't got the time. The chefs know what to take out and what to leave from experience learned over time i guess.
I do agree there is a tendancy to upload cooked roms before testing which i suppose is the point, let the people test and suggest! What we need is a thread which post 'finished' or 'perfected' rom series's then score each on multimedia, business, lite, heavy, speedy, stable etc, people who've used the roms can then mark each point out of 5. This will give a better picture of what each rom is about.
It can be an absolute night mare sifting through rom threads to get a flavour of the rom.
There is a 'rom of the month thread' which is irrelevant for many as it depends on what you like on your rom, says nothing for the roms specifics and character.
Might look into creating such a beast, any points you think should a rom should be marked on maybe you could list?
Hope this made sense

Q: Why are the chefs using beta software to cook roms?

Q: Why are the chefs using beta software to cook roms?
I got really frustrated by the stability issues of some roms. Some i liked, they were unstable... some were stable but i did not like them.
I've just started cooking and i realized that MANY things can go wrong. So my question is...
IS THERE any thought, any real reason, behind using BETA leaked software in a rom??
Back in the S100(Magician) days... there were fewer leakes and things were stable. You actually could choose from 3-4 stable roms.
Also the wikis are a mess... i used to visit them first and i will try to help fix them.

Before the final ver there is always a trial and error ver..
If you ask for final ver then go to SEUS
Give respect to people who have given time to make a ROM ..
samov said:
Q: Why are the chefs using beta software to cook roms?
I got really frustrated by the stability issues of some roms. Some i liked, they were unstable... some were stable but i did not like them.
I've just started cooking and i realized that MANY things can go wrong. So my question is...
IS THERE any thought, any real reason, behind using BETA leaked software in a rom??
Back in the S100(Magician) days... there were fewer leakes and things were stable. You actually could choose from 3-4 stable roms.
Also the wikis are a mess... i used to visit them first and i will try to help fix them.
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Click to collapse

samov said:
Q: Why are the chefs using beta software to cook roms?
I got really frustrated by the stability issues of some roms. Some i liked, they were unstable... some were stable but i did not like them.
I've just started cooking and i realized that MANY things can go wrong. So my question is...
IS THERE any thought, any real reason, behind using BETA leaked software in a rom??
Back in the S100(Magician) days... there were fewer leakes and things were stable. You actually could choose from 3-4 stable roms.
Also the wikis are a mess... i used to visit them first and i will try to help fix them.
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Whats that I see off in the distance??? Chef's gathering and asking each other....if you listen carefully you can hear them.......ready for it.....'huh?'
Why would one want to flash ROMs off of released software? The 'fun' in all of this ....is newness....trying parts here and there and seeing what you come up with. If you wanted release software, why flash?? If, IF, stability is your primary concern....flash back to the original and don't worry about it.
But....if you're wondering what Itje will do tomorrow...or how will Agent work out that issue, or just how fast NRG can make his ROMs, or what new combination the chef's here will come up with....then come back tomorrow and feast your eyes.....cause it only gets exciting when the software is new, and the challenge is great and the ideas flow...and the questions get asked.
Hmmmm....TF3D...on an iPhone.....hahahah....nahhhhh

hey alodar1 well put

Question is why are there 40 threads like this... Especially when stable roms exist already.

papped said:
Question is why are there 40 threads like this... Especially when stable roms exist already.
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Answer is: ignorance (whoops )
you'll never know the water is cold till you dip in it

It's because we all want the newest shizzle from everything. That's why we flash custom roms. I mean why should we cook with old stuff when we can get such things from SEUS? If something is already released and stable there is no need for custom roms anymore since it will be on SEUS. The thing I like about cooking is to get the newest stuff cook it in and try to fix everything as good as possible. So if you don't understand this you maybe better get an iphone or just go to SEUS and download the latest stock rom. Wondering what you preferre
Amen

killer8nl said:
It's because we all want the newest shizzle from everything. That's why we flash custom roms. I mean why should we cook with old stuff when we can get such things from SEUS? If something is already released and stable there is no need for custom roms anymore since it will be on SEUS. The thing I like about cooking is to get the newest stuff cook it in and try to fix everything as good as possible. So if you don't understand this you maybe better get an iphone or just go to SEUS and download the latest stock rom. Wondering what you preferre
Amen
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A big thank you goes out to everyone that took me seriously and posted an answear. To all others, i think trying the latest and greatest does not justify the huge amount of bugs in so called stable roms.
Most roms take a full 3-5 sec to change a song... and there is no end to end experience using it.
In the meantime i found about the only version that is 100% usable in real life conditions.
Smaberg's Touch X 10.1
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=493848&highlight=touch
Regards.

samov said:
A big thank you goes out to everyone that took me seriously and posted an answear. To all others, i think trying the latest and greatest does not justify the huge amount of bugs in so called stable roms.
Most roms take a full 3-5 sec to change a song... and there is no end to end experience using it.
In the meantime i found about the only version that is 100% usable in real life conditions.
Smaberg's Touch X 10.1
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=493848&highlight=touch
Regards.
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"So called stable" doesn't mean bug free. But I think all cheffs do their best. It's just the choice of the user what rom he/she will use and like.

why chefs are using beta roms? <<<<if this is his question, then he should realize that there are no downloads anywhere online where you would download a final build of wm 6.5, the same way you would download windows xp, vista or 7......but my question is, is there a final wm 6.5???? wm 6.1 became final weeks ago, so where is 6.5 now???? hmmm i think you should do some research before bashing chefs who enjoy doing what they do
the betas were leaked dude, you need to relax, a chef can only cook what is available,
also wm 6.5 is not even out of beta stages IMO, every single build has a bug, even the ones that are in the official ads by the real makers, u can tell bcos the battery icon is still not positioned properly as in 6.1
the official R3A rom from SEUS also has at least one bug i can point to you, and that's official, so back to your question, whats your question again?

samov said:
A big thank you goes out to everyone that took me seriously and posted an answear. To all others, i think trying the latest and greatest does not justify the huge amount of bugs in so called stable roms.
Most roms take a full 3-5 sec to change a song... and there is no end to end experience using it.
In the meantime i found about the only version that is 100% usable in real life conditions.
Smaberg's Touch X 10.1
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=493848&highlight=touch
Regards.
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but you misunderstand...we do take you serious,,,,very serious. Well..right up to the 100% reliable statement. It goes like this. It all depends on your likes, needs, and tastes.
I too am a Smaberg fan. But he uses a released OS, and changes the wrappers. Thats like changing your tie...should I wear blue today or the Red one with stripes. He does(did) a GREAT job.
But the 6.5 ROMs...all new...all different, so many varieties. Pick one you like...or not. But...in 6 months....building a 6.5 ROM will be like...Smabergs ROMs...which tie should I wear today. Great work...but.....not new.
People who flash here, stability maybe in their top 5 concerns...but probably not 1, or 2. they ride bikes downhill at full spead...or at least want to. They have more beta products that actual release products. NO ONE here flashes a ROM expecting it work perfect because they have a huge business trip tomorrow. They only HOPE it will be perfect...because if it is...they will have the coolest thing in the room.
there is no medicine to fix these symtoms....only new ROMs
Do not thing we do not take you serious....we do....we just don't understand your question.

killer8nl said:
"So called stable" doesn't mean bug free. But I think all cheffs do their best. It's just the choice of the user what rom he/she will use and like.
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Yep, bugs usually show up dependent on usage and how critical they are varies on what a person cares about. So you're "stable" might not be someone else's stable and vice versa.

Because people like me exist..
Speaking for myself.. My X1 was just getting boring until of course I learned I could flash the rom with the latest thing people are talking about but don't have... WOW!! My phone became exciting again..
These chefs are the coolest.. I toggle between the different roms from the credible chefs and that 'need for new' on my budget is quenched... <Donations to come (promise) >
Someone once said "If you don’t risk anything, you risk even more."

welldone to our chefs
I strongly believe that we can only progress in life by trying new ideas and stuffs. so i will say a big welldone to all the chefs for all their time and devotion they've dedicated to these roms we keep flashing. Trully without these so called beta roms, the x1 would have been the worst phone i believe, ever produced by sonyericsson. i have had all the se P series, and then thought that the X1 was going to be the icing on the cake. that never happened. certainly personally is was product i've ever spend so much money on. fortunately i found this website, and it rescued me. i keep flashing my phone with new roms. it is as if i have a new phone all the time. so please leave the chefs alone. stay with the se stable rom. Again welldone to all the chefs.

divinetong said:
I strongly believe that we can only progress in life by trying new ideas and stuffs. so i will say a big welldone to all the chefs for all their time and devotion they've dedicated to these roms we keep flashing. Trully without these so called beta roms, the x1 would have been the worst phone i believe, ever produced by sonyericsson. i have had all the se P series, and then thought that the X1 was going to be the icing on the cake. that never happened. certainly personally is was product i've ever spend so much money on. fortunately i found this website, and it rescued me. i keep flashing my phone with new roms. it is as if i have a new phone all the time. so please leave the chefs alone. stay with the se stable rom. Again welldone to all the chefs.
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because of xda and these great chefs, my X1 is yet the most exciting phone i ever had in 12 years since i first used a cell/mobile phone.
without them, X1 coudlve been just another phone
so kudos to all chefs!

DIR ROM ? - Do It Right ? /Quality Control ?

What I miss at this forum, is a ROM with a honest, complete list of known bugs/non-working stuff.
Would like to see some quality-control, and know what I install - before I do.
Everybody is cooking ROM's (and that's nice) but there's no way to know how they will work before trying.
-its impossible to read thru >200 posts and figure out which of those are about the current version.
-recent posts are sometimes about earlier versions too...
Please: I hope some of you that des this nice job will focus on information about quality, and keep a "buglist" for each version..

AlCapone said:
What I miss at this forum, is a ROM with a honest, complete list of known bugs/non-working stuff.
Would like to see some quality-control, and know what I install - before I do.
Everybody is cooking ROM's (and that's nice) but there's no way to know how they will work before trying.
-its impossible to read thru >200 posts and figure out which of those are about the current version.
-recent posts are sometimes about earlier versions too...
Please: I hope some of you that des this nice job will focus on information about quality, and keep a "buglist" for each version..
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I agree 100% Buglists are a must. Roms shouldn't be released with alot of bugs unless stated by the op.

husker91 said:
I agree 100% Buglists are a must. Roms shouldn't be released with alot of bugs unless stated by the op.
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I think the point you're missing is that the bugs only become apparent after others flash the ROMs and do some testing.....

cr1960 said:
apparent after others flash the ROMs and do some testing.....
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nope - the author/or a helper is in the ultimate position to read the feedback, verify, and make a list in the first article containing these bugs.
i did not say that the cook should know about every bug before releasing.
maintain a list, and verify it against next version.
-the only way to have some quality control...

I agree with the sentiment - for those of us who only flash their phones maybe once a month, it would be nice to know a ROM is ultra stable and all known bugs / oddities have been sorted. (or if not, then a comprehensive list of things that are broken, with any workarounds etc) Reading through thousands of posts takes hours and not everybody has the time or inclination for that.
For instance both WM and Manila (and others) are under very active development, there are always new versions coming out. While it would be unreasonable to expect the beta WM builds (23xxx, 28xxx) to be 100% stable, it would be nice for a cook or two to say "right, this combination of components is stable, I'm going to stick with these for a while" instead of always following the very latest cutting edge "LOOK, SHINY TOYS!" at the risk of stability.
As for stability I am currently on JoshKoss's latest (1.7) and have yet to experience a single error, crash or hang. And Josh's seem to be the fastest ROMs, definitely of the ones I have experienced anyway. There are a few minor inconsistencies but these are in no way critical. If you want stable I would not even consider Manila 2.5 or any of the "start menu at the bottom" ROMs.

Have you tried AthineOS ROMS? Very fast, very stable. The current Leo 2.02 based ROM is the fastest Sense 2.5 ROM I've tried (and I've tried them all) and stable enough for hassle-free day to day use.

Guyz As far as my experience goes no cook likes to hide the bug list, rather they work to bring more in the light. Users like us are expected to give our submissions. Thats how it works. Things like quality control is not what we have seen here since its not GM factory but a place to share & experiment & success & failure is part of that place.

AlCapone said:
nope - the author/or a helper is in the ultimate position to read the feedback, verify, and make a list in the first article containing these bugs.
i did not say that the cook should know about every bug before releasing.
maintain a list, and verify it against next version.
-the only way to have some quality control...
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I completely disagree. At the rate new builds are released, and with so many new tweaks and items going into ROMs, I think it would take forever for the chef and a select few beta testers to try and figure out all or most bugs in a ROM. I use Arrups ROMs, and he discloses everything that he can, but ultimately its not the chefs responsibility to create a "perfect" rom for Al Capone is it? Everyone uses different applications which can affect the stability of a ROM completely-for example Opera beta 10. I think its much more efficient to have them release the ROMs and let lots of people try and break them, then come back and fix it. And when bugs arise the are put on a "bug list" to be fixed.
We would never see new ROM releases for months if we waited for chefs to perfect stuff. So the people who just flash and leach ROMs cant help out a little?
Since you are so anxious about having a perfect ROM, why dont you have a go at it? Or is *****ing easier?

MadBeef said:
As for stability I am currently on JoshKoss's latest (1.7) and have yet to experience a single error, crash or hang. And Josh's seem to be the fastest ROMs, definitely of the ones I have experienced anyway. There are a few minor inconsistencies but these are in no way critical. If you want stable I would not even consider Manila 2.5 or any of the "start menu at the bottom" ROMs.
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X2, This is a very stable ROM. I have been running it close to 2 weeks with no real issues & haven't had to soft reset because of a glitch or hang up.

I have to chime in here and agree with the sentiment of this thread. The application of it is much more difficult that it seems. I have been down this road before, trying to get the chefs to post a comprehensive bug list for their ROMs and while they are willing to do it, it is VERY difficult to tell what is a real bug and what is OE (operator error), confusion caused by loading some application, etc that really isn't a bug or a real bug.
For example, I have been running Sergio76's EVO 3 ROM for sometime now, and have absolutely nothing bad to say about it. Stable as hell, fast, good memory, good battery etc. But some of the other users of the same ROM find 'bugs' mostly caused by putting different shells on, or trying to icon sets.
So, my point is BRAVO! this needs to be done, but let's have a good discussion of how to categorize what is a bug, what is an incompatibility, etc. Because, if we simply list all these things as bugs then we run the risk of scaring folks off of flashing a potentially GREAT ROM all because one or two guys muck it up by hacking the registry and it gets put on a bug list.
I would also like to see a 'standard' way all the chefs list bugs, etc.
Russ

iceman4357 said:
why dont you have a go at it? Or is *****ing easier?
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bit harsh tbh

MadBeef said:
bit harsh tbh
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I was actually holding back a lot. Unfortunately 90% of people on here dont contribute anything and just expect stuff to happen perfectly. If its so easy, then instead of creating an entire thread to talk about problems, why not make a "perfect" Rom and contribute.

iceman4357 said:
Since you are so anxious about having a perfect ROM, why dont you have a go at it? Or is *****ing easier?
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your own *****ing certainly does not help.
read my lips:
-I do NOT ask for a "perfect" ROM
-I just ask for the cook/helper to browse thru the reply-posts, and add known bugs they can confirm, to the first post - the one that contains the ROM
-So any ROM can have a list of known errors, (the the author confirms)

AlCapone said:
your own *****ing certainly does not help.
read my lips:
-I do NOT ask for a "perfect" ROM
-I just ask for the cook/helper to browse thru the reply-posts, and add known bugs they can confirm, to the first post - the one that contains the ROM
-So any ROM can have a list of known errors, (the the author confirms)
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So the chef should worry about reading the 200 posts that you were worried about reading instead of working on ROMs? I am sure that chef mailboxes are full of people reporting bugs on a daily basis.
There are people other than the chefs that have a good deal of experience that help within the thread posts, that free up the chef to continue experimenting and cooking ROMs.
A lot of "common" bugs are specific to builds, such as the landscape issues vs touchflow(sense), or GPS lag which take a lot of time and programming to figure out. These are commonly known across ROMs and builds.
A lot of smaller bugs are from individual customization errors like with S2U2, Opera Beta, lack of knowledge, or custom tweaking.
Chefs, in my opinion, are here to provide a decent platform ROM for us to costimize individually; not to help each individual person with each custom problem they have.

x2
Montea said:
X2, This is a very stable ROM. I have been running it close to 2 weeks with no real issues & haven't had to soft reset because of a glitch or hang up.
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can u link me up with the x2 rom u speak about?thanks

oyebee said:
can u link me up with the x2 rom u speak about?thanks
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=572938
We were on about JoshKoss's ROMs.
I've said this for years, something like bugzilla would be good. Not that I have ever used it but something with a bit of structure you know? Flag bugs by component (ie. Manila footprints tab, lock screen, or whatever) then by ROM so the system will know already if it is ROM specific or not. But it still relies on people adding good data, as the saying goes, "Garbage In Garbage Out". An automated config dump tool would be a good step towards that. (an end-to-end "report bug" app would be awesome) After all I don't know what point release of Manila I'm running (1921? 1922??) because I don't really care unless it breaks, or a newer version has more shiny.
Anyway I said this a while ago and we are still "*****ing" about ROMs at a fairly disorganised level, and yet the cooks continue to work their magic, so it can't be all that bad
From another guy who comes on here with not very much to offer yet continues to leech a new ROM once a month or so

Stop the Madness...
Oh Geez....
Yes, I am one of the lurkers here at XDA, having been flashing my phones for years and not really contributing much to the community.
I have made a New Year's resolution to change that, so I am posting more now.
But look at some of the most popular ROMS....
Within hours of a Chef releasing a new version, there are hundreds of posts about it.
From what I gather, 95% if not more of these guys/gals cook up these ROMs in their spare time. They do it because they like to do it. I don't think anyone here is getting rich cooking up a ROM for my TP2. They all have lives and when there can be 40+ pages of posts within a couple days after they release a new version, I don't expect them to read every single one. Especially where a vast majority are people asking how to flash the ROM, how to change the theme or other posts that a simple search would provide the answer.
Most Chefs do post what was fixed, what was improved and a lot of them post issues in their ROMS.
I have spent hours reading page after page trying to figure out an answer to a issue I have had...knowing I was probably not the only one having it.
Do some Chef's not post as much info as I would like? Yes.
Am I going to berate those Chefs for not doing so? No.
Some of the responsibility has to be on the users. Period.
For example, I was and am a fan of the Energy ROMs. But I SMS an insane amount and the newest Leo interface with the HTC messaging client sucked, period. Not to say NRGZ28's ROMs sucked, quite the contrary, they are great. But did those ROMs fill every need that I specifically had? No.
So, I did some research, and I found in a thread where Agent_47 suggested his ROM because he didn't even cook in the HTC SMS messaging client. So, I looked at his thread, flashed the ROM, and realized that I have had no issues with it and am very happy. Stable, works and I don't have to wait 7 minutes sometimes to send a text to someone!
We are all very lucky to have XDA. We are all very lucky to have the Chefs that spend their own time, and a lot of it, to cook up these excellent ROMs for us to flash.
Instead of complaining about the lack of 'bug lists'...perhaps you could create a tool or set something up to help the Chefs better manage those said lists?
That is the spirit that has and continues to make XDA great, if there is something you want, something that you see lacking, then create a tool to fill that void.
If you don't want to do that, then I suggest getting an iPhone, where you are locked into your OS and a slave to Apple and their constant updates and static interface. Cool device, granted, but I prefer the freedom of flashing, the excitement of trying new interfaces, experimenting with new features and lastly, the great folks here at XDA.
\.end rant

Spankmeister said:
I suggest getting an iPhone
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Let's not get silly