Hi folks. Sorry to start a new thread but there's something bugging me around here. If by any chance you mods think this post is useless please close it and accept my apologies.
It's known to the most of you that the first version of drivers didn't worked on all roms. That issue forced the developers to do a workaround and slow down the process to get it working on those roms and created a new set of drivers that is not so fast as the first one.
So... i was thinking on this and decided to start a poll in order to give a hand to the developers in wich way they should follow. What do you prefer?
A Gold XDA based ROM with fastest drivers and less compatibility with all roms? (forcing all XDA members to flash their phones - not a big deal i presume)
Or a set of drivers compatible with most of the roms but with slower performance?
I know this is a controversial issue and the urge of the drivers working on our kaisers is huge but i think we would have more if we had a custom GOLD XDA rom
Just My 2 cents
Cheers,
Draco
kinda seems like a no-brainer honestly (unless you're petrified to flash or just despise 6.1). They will develop said drivers and you have a million chefs making a million roms from them...
Fared said:
kinda seems like a no-brainer honestly (unless you're petrified to flash or just despise 6.1). They will develop said drivers and you have a million chefs making a million roms from them...
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I have no problems at all flashing my phone. I assume that there are some people who are not comfortable doing that but.... this is XDA. And if they are here that's because we all want to get the most out of our phones. And that is the tricky part of this poll. Developing the drivers based on one specific rom ( a ported one form Diamond or Raphael or an official kaiser one ) will be the more accurate and fastest way to get there.
Again... just my 2 cents
Draco
first:
flashing rom is a non-trivial task for a huge majority of users. leaving them out in the cold sounds like a very selfish position. If not for this reason, maybe avoiding a flood of "I bricked my tilt, help !!!!" threads may be a better one.
second:
Anyway, as i understood it what is slowing down FPS in the new version is the enabled VSync, which yields less tearing and improved smoothness (sounds like a shaver commercial, i'm afraid). I don't know what the refresh rate of a kaiser LCD is, but anything higher than 75fps (ie 15ms refresh rate) is a complete waste.
draxredd said:
second:
flashing rom is a non-trivial task for a huge majority of users. leaving them out in the cold sounds like a very selfish position.
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Not at all draxredd. Although i'm a junior member this is the second time i'm on XDA. I'm here for almost 7 years. Believe me, this is not a selfish position. As i was able to get some help to start flashing all of the members here on XDA will get that help too. The first time i flashed my first phone i was scared to death but... it's all the same. It only hurts the first time.
As i stated before this is just my opinion. The more roms the developers must include in the drivers development process, the more difficult it will be and much more time will be wasted.
Draco
haste... makes waste.
And if only one rom was to be designated as a target for the driver, it has to be the official HTC one, for two reasons:
- enabling driver support for a huge majority of users
- sticking it to HTC, deep.
draxredd said:
And if only one rom was to be designated as a target for the driver, it has to be the official HTC one, for two reasons:
- enabling driver support for a huge majority of users
- sticking it to HTC, deep.
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Click to collapse
What about performance issues? Doesn't that count as well?
Anyway.... i've started the poll just to check your opinion against wide compatibility among all the roms versus one specific rom fully optimized. Let's not get far from the main question
By the way... my kaiser has the official 6.1 rom from HTC... for now
cheers,
Draco
I'm for Flashing myself, but the in the ideal world both sollutions would be best so no one comes off short. However the kind developers should be aiming at the most stable of the 2 first.
Looking at the driver progress it looks like theyre slowly getting there and getting the driver to work on the latest 6.1 roms
I voted for compatibility with the official ROM, simply because it's an identifiable standard that everyone recognises, and which everyone has on their phone by default. Cooked ROMs are great, but they're all individual, designed by individuals and used by individuals with the same tastes/needs - not one of them will suit everyone else, with or without drivers, whereas drivers released for the official ROM should work with pretty much everything else.
It's too early to say whether drivers developed for the standard ROM will always be slower than those for a cooked version, and I'm sure the very brilliant developer of those drivers will do their best to minimise any performance loss, assuming their is any in the longterm.
Vastly improved performance for the majority (and what that means for sales of the Touch Pro etc) has to take priority over a marginally improved performance in a niche ROM, aimed at an elite few, surely? At the end of the day it's entirely down to the developer what they do, irrespective of any poll here, but that's my take on it anyway.
Maybe i didn't expose correctly my idea.
There isn't any XDA Gold rom nor any kind of perfect ROM. The XDA Gold rom is just a concept and the first name that crossed my mind.
This is a big community and has some big brains around here. The exchange of knowledge bettween everyone is a plus and that opens a big wide world to explore.
So.... let's just imagine this scenario, ok?
The developers will pick a base rom. It really doesn't matter if it is a ported rom or a Official one. Preferably one that is fast and stable enough. The driver will be written over that rom. Users (those who want obviously) will test the rom for bugs and then chefs will try to cook out a 100% clean (note that by clean i mean a rom just as close as an official rom regarding to apps) fast and stable rom.
Of course this is just a crazy ideia but that i was thinking of. Create the first genuine XDA rom based on one device.
Note that there are many roms out there based on diferent releases. Make the drivers compatible with all of them will make the development process slow down and eventualy fail. That's the main reason i started this thread.
Now that the concept of the "XDA Gold rom" was properly explained (i hope) let's get on with the poll.
Draco
DracoLX said:
Now that the concept of the "XDA Gold rom" was properly explained (i hope) let's get on with the poll.
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As long as "XDA Gold" = HTC Latest Official version I cant see a problem. It's when drivers are developed for anything other than the official ROM that we'll encounter problems. All the chefs can base their designs starting with official ROMs and work out from there. In the end it will depend on whether those developing the drivers want to satisfy the larger number using official ROMs or those using Custom ROMs where the chef has not saught to maintain driver compatibility. I've therefore not voted because it depends whether "XDA Gold" does in fact = HTC Latest Official version - we weren't told.
Are you even sure that theifference is that huge?
They might be able to provide two sets to cover all ends without much additional work.
DracoLX said:
Note that there are many roms out there based on diferent releases. Make the drivers compatible with all of them will make the development process slow down and eventualy fail. That's the main reason i started this thread.
Now that the concept of the "XDA Gold rom" was properly explained (i hope) let's get on with the poll.
Draco
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IMO, The drivers only need to be compatible with an official based rom. It's up to the chefs to make the drivers work with their rom. Now, if the root of the compatibility issue can be resolved, I think things can progress forward at a faster rate.
DracoLX said:
It's known to the most of you that the first version of drivers didn't worked on all roms. That issue forced the developers to do a workaround and slow down the process to get it working on those roms and created a new set of drivers that is not so fast as the first one.
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FALSE. Two separate issues.
First, is dlls load differently between stock or hacked/cooked roms due to memory mangling by G'realoc going into cooked roms. An attempt to fix that was in the updated release.
Two, the screen update style in the first release was really just a hack that hijacked DDI's screen refresh routines. The 2nd release finally got the 'official' way to work so the hack was removed.
I voted faster...there isn't any other reason I came to XDA other than customizing.
Anyone who doesn't want a faster cellphone won't appreciate the new D3D drivers anyway.
There are may reasons the XDA Gold Rom (HTC Original 6.1) may be slower. Cooks reduce the software on the rom and use newer software versions, these may be faster than the previous ones.
Also this software is not from the Kaiser sometimes these may be causing the incompatiblity problems with the drivers.
The HTC original rom is slower to start than most cooked roms anyway, so way wouldn't the 3d drivers also run slower.
I decided not to vote, I think speed is a non issue as long as the drivers work on the HTC original rom, and are stable. You will always get rom's that perform faster, that's what cooks do round here.
I also don't think you would get a big jump in performance writing for just one rom, the hardware is the same in all the HTC Kaiser's handsets. Software can only make small difference to the performance of hardware if the drivers are written correctly.
personally i would love the drivers in a rom like dutty's diamond v1, but i think building them into a standard(ish) htc rom is best for the comunity; it sticks it to htc best as it shows u guys can do what they couldn't(or wouldn't), and makes flashing a rom feel safer to noobs.
and anyway we all know within hours of a rom with the drivers being released there will be dozens of cooked versions for all tastes with the drivers included too.
Related
I've only ever owned a MDA pro.... which i promptly wiped and setup with the Qtek ROM (mostly because the T-Mob ROM was crap and they seemed to update once every millennium).
So now i've got a vanilla HTC Kaiser, i was just wondering what HTC were like in terms of releasing new updated ROMS?
Reason i ask, is because im hoping some of the initial 'bugs' (GPS etc) will be fixed soon!
Pooper said:
I've only ever owned a MDA pro.... which i promptly wiped and setup with the Qtek ROM (mostly because the T-Mob ROM was crap and they seemed to update once every millennium).
So now i've got a vanilla HTC Kaiser, i was just wondering what HTC were like in terms of releasing new updated ROMS?
Reason i ask, is because im hoping some of the initial 'bugs' (GPS etc) will be fixed soon!
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I wouldnt worry about it, I have noticed some of the smart guys from the hermes forum already on here. If the kaiser is anything like the hermes I think we will be in for a treat real soon.
Official ROMs are more stable
Although I applaude their work, 3rd party ROMs are not great substitutes for official ROMs.
forcedalias said:
Although I applaude their work, 3rd party ROMs are not great substitutes for official ROMs.
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I agree 100%. 3rd party ROMs are not great substitues for official ROMs, they are fantasic substitutes.They often are so much better. faster. more stable. more comprehensive. and have better unofficial support than Official ROMs. They are also fixed quicker and have new features added far quicker than any official ROM that I can think of.I'm sure on here we have got WM6 running on devices that were released with WM2003SE. With no official way to upgrade to WM6.Give me 3rd party ROMs everytime.
wizzzard said:
I agree 100%. 3rd party ROMs are not great substitues for official ROMs, they are fantasic substitutes.They often are so much better. faster. more stable. more comprehensive. and have better unofficial support than Official ROMs. They are also fixed quicker and have new features added far quicker than any official ROM that I can think of.I'm sure on here we have got WM6 running on devices that were released with WM2003SE. With no official way to upgrade to WM6.Give me 3rd party ROMs everytime.
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When there's no official ROM to upgrade your WM build to the latest, third party ROMs come in real handy and I thank the enthusiasts for taking the time to provide us with these.
However that stuff you said about third party ROMs being more stable is total nonsense -- large corporations can afford to hire large groups of specialist developers and split tasks up amongst them. They don't produce ROMs as unstable as some of the ones I've seen around here, requiring you to follow steps to avoid certain basic functionality from breaking and what not.
Also, if that weren't enough, if things go wrong with third party ROMs and you need help from HTC or to return it for any other reason, you're screwed. So don't tell me they're fantastic substitutes for official software which is thoroughly tested (hence huge delays in getting them out the door) since the corporation's reputations rely on them.
forcedalias said:
When there's no official ROM to upgrade your WM build to the latest, third party ROMs come in real handy and I thank the enthusiasts for taking the time to provide us with these.
However that stuff you said about third party ROMs being more stable is total nonsense -- large corporations can afford to hire large groups of specialist developers and split tasks up amongst them. They don't produce ROMs as unstable as some of the ones I've seen around here, requiring you to follow steps to avoid certain basic functionality from breaking and what not.
Also, if that weren't enough, if things go wrong with third party ROMs and you need help from HTC or to return it for any other reason, you're screwed. So don't tell me they're fantastic substitutes for official software which is thoroughly tested (hence huge delays in getting them out the door) since the corporation's reputations rely on them.
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Thats is why
a) You take a copy of the official rom on an SD card - you can pretty much restore to that at any time through the bios
I actually found the wizard 3rd party ROMS to be so much better than the tmobile roms it wasnt even remotely funny. The WS6 version was amazing.
Bratag said:
Thats is why
a) You take a copy of the official rom on an SD card - you can pretty much restore to that at any time through the bios
I actually found the wizard 3rd party ROMS to be so much better than the tmobile roms it wasnt even remotely funny. The WS6 version was amazing.
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I couldn't agree more... As it is an ODM's business to sell HARDWARE, the softwareside of things is mostly dropped pretty quickly cause there is no money to make there...
Although it is also true that a full developerteam can probably crank out a much better tweaked/more stable ROM, simply due to all the resources they have, like being at the source of hardware side of things.
Still problem remains that companies like HTC (and others) do NOT put their focus on updating software side of things, unless there is a major functionality-bug to be ironed out...
That really is a shame, but also understandable... So it's a good thing i guess that we've got xda-dev's for the brave among us who want to give the latest and greatest a spin...
Wanna be a bit behind, but on the safe side? Stay with HTC...it's a users choice
Hmmm i think i'll hold off the custom ROMs for the time being...!
hoping for 3g fix fast
Actually, I hope there is a ROM update soon, my 3g quit working here in the US, much like the rumored att 8925 delay problems. My phone function is useless most of the time unless I'm in a EDGE area. HTC US said not our problem, set me to HTC UK (I have a GB serial #). HTC UK has been unresponsive.... so much for service.... Anybody got a 8925 radio I can download?
forcedalias said:
However that stuff you said about third party ROMs being more stable is total nonsense -- large corporations can afford to hire large groups of specialist developers and split tasks up amongst them. They don't produce ROMs as unstable as some of the ones I've seen around here, requiring you to follow steps to avoid certain basic functionality from breaking and what not.
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I take it that you have never used an AT&T/Cingular ROM (at least for the Hermes)... The Hermes Official ROMs (from Cingular/AT&T) are so overbloated and bug-ridden that you can't even call them stable...
jeffreycentex said:
I take it that you have never used an AT&T/Cingular ROM (at least for the Hermes)... The Hermes Official ROMs (from Cingular/AT&T) are so overbloated and bug-ridden that you can't even call them stable...
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Click to collapse
yeah you kind of beat me to the punch here but the AT&T/Cingular ROM that came on the 8525 was bloated and bug-ridden that i made cingular at the time replace the entire phone multiple times before i found this site (i was a total noob i know) flashed a new rom and no more problems out of it. i will be upgrading to the tilt within a month i hope
Hmmm, maybe i'm wrong but 3rd party ROMs can't be actually "better" than official ones for one simple reason: the guys cooking them take programs from official roms and put them in one compilation, tweak the registry, solve some rare problems, but they give us THE SAME PROGRAMS: when you see a new tab in HTC home, it's there because the devs at HTC put it there and disabled it (for some reason).
in some cases, like the prophet, who never had any official WM6 ROM, the guys giving us the ROM were a blessing, but i would rather tweak my device myself ( with the help of the same great guys making roms )
bottom line is: i see cooked ROMs as a way to quickly apply all performance/enhancement tweaks - considering they are not rewriting software, programs can't run better in that sense.
i hope i won't upset anyone, i'm just saying: if you're not lazy, tweak it yourself (again: except for the devices that have no updated official ROMs - that's where the cookers are GODS, giving us something we can NEVER have officially)
jeffreycentex said:
I take it that you have never used an AT&T/Cingular ROM (at least for the Hermes)... The Hermes Official ROMs (from Cingular/AT&T) are so overbloated and bug-ridden that you can't even call them stable...
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I've always bought original HTC brand devices so I can't say I've had the pleasure of riding that bloated bug-ridden ROM you mention. However, I must point out that even though it's official, it's not from the manufacturers, it's a ROM released by the carrier. I'm pretty sure the manufacturer knows the hardware better than the carrier does and so would do a better job of producing a ROM.
My advice is to always use the HTC official ROMs if they're available for your re-branded phone. If not, then 3rd party ROMs should suffice, if carefully prepared.
Wow. Unbelievable how many threads are opened with problem with the newly released ROM at HTC-e Club. I downloaded my version too from that site the moment I saw announcement here. First of all, I did not get a mail from HTC at all, should have liked that in the first place.
I decided not yet to install. Luckily a good decision it seems according to that huge list of complaints.
Normally a forum is always only full of complaints, no one is posting when all things a good (enough), so that is not surprising me at all.
But of all users that installed this new ROM version, aren't there any people who are satisfied? That is what I was wondering. So just leave you name and a message here if all works well, so I can be convinced to also try this new version myself.
[Edit]Hopefully this list will be long [/Edit]
Apart from a few complaints that I had, I think that there are actually many things that are improved, for example the graphics when you turn portrait to landscape...and this is a remarkable one. And also, you are able to 'zoom in' in the latest Internet Explorer (WM6.1 standard one).
i was happy user with WM 2003, and later with WM2003 SE, and later with WM5, and later with WM6, and now with WM6.1... so you can say i'm a happy user in general i beleave you can be a happy user with any Mobile OS... i beleave is a choice...
Cheers
Very happy here. I'm running the official 6.1 ROM with the accompanying HTC SPL (overwriting the Hard SPL I used previously, as mine is a Vodafone branded phone) and it's far more responsive device - no more pauses or missed button presses, very little waiting around generally, and certain tasks like browsing files are markedly quicker. The new features (threaded SMS and improved IE) are good, having the camera and bluetooth fixes in ROM is worthwhile, and the whole package just feels like a much better, snappier device.
If I had to criticise it on anything, I'd say that at times the GPS can be slower to get a lock on - but then, at other times, it seems very quick - so I probably need to test that some more.
Im pretty happy myself
especially when I go from portrait to landscape
it loads up the screen real fast.
Found no grounds for complaints as of now (4 days and counting). Using the SWE version of the official update.
Happy user here!
corleno said:
Im pretty happy myself
especially when I go from portrait to landscape
it loads up the screen real fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here.
me happy 2
Yes I confim being happy by the new official 6.1 release from HTC ... I was never happy with any cooked rom except with only one 2003 rom I had to cook it myself to add certain applications I didn't want to loose them with hard reset ...
with so much due respect to all gurus and chefs here, but playing with the core components and registry tweaks are not gauarnteed to hold against all types of applications a user may decide to install later ... actually this is the main reason for most of complaints.
I only didn't like the new threaded sms, but it's only a matter of small tweak .. but all the rest is so fine for me.
After about 3 flashes. a lil bit contented... but not happy.
The only reason i stick with this official rom is because i am kind of a purist, there are other very good roms from various cooks on this forum. But i prefer this one becasue its just generic* and i consider it pure from the manufacturer without person tweaks as a result of peoples personal preferences.
Sorry, I'm NOT happy with the latest official HTC 6.1 ROM.
BUT, I'm running udK's Vega R0 WM6.1 ROM for weeks, and I'm very happy with that one!
I'm very happy with the original release! It's working very fast here.
My screen flips very fast too.
But if you were to try the HTC rom with the HTC SPL your opinion might change!
Personally, I think, like Boingg, that the new ROM is great PROVIDED you re-install the HTC SPL.
As another person also said, there are some very good cooked ROM's here, but while they introduce some speed/performance improvements, they can also introduce their own bugs. One cook in particular seems intent on providing quantity over quality by uploading a new ROM seemingly every hour - always amuses me when I read the responses, like 'What a great rom, I am wetting myself its sooooooo good!! - By the way, here's a list of the bugs I found' (This isn't a direct quote, but you get the idea!!). I think at the end of day that the ROM that has been designed for a particular device will always be better than one that has been manhandled from elsewhere - although some of the ported ROM's do get pretty close, there is always some niggle or other.
Anyway, I will stop rambling.... yes I am happy with the HTC ROM but I reserve the right to re-flash at any time!
I'm using the WWE version and am happy with it so far.
rubinho93 said:
I'm very happy with the original release! It's working very fast here.
My screen flips very fast too.
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lol ... it draws in the background and displays it latter
no not fast actually... same speed about 2~5 seconds depends @cache (I think)
Doemaarwat said:
Wow. Unbelievable how many threads are opened with problem with the newly released ROM at HTC-e Club. I downloaded my version too from that site the moment I saw announcement here. First of all, I did not get a mail from HTC at all, should have liked that in the first place.
I decided not yet to install. Luckily a good decision it seems according to that huge list of complaints.
Normally a forum is always only full of complaints, no one is posting when all things a good (enough), so that is not surprising me at all.
But of all users that installed this new ROM version, aren't there any people who are satisfied? That is what I was wondering. So just leave you name and a message here if all works well, so I can be convinced to also try this new version myself.
[Edit]Hopefully this list will be long [/Edit]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you plan on doing something with this data/poll/etc....
Or is this a venting thread
This is a developer's forum .... not tech support or customer service
The purpose of this forum is to develop
If you've been around these devices for a while, you'll know that factory ROMz are the worst. Page Pools are set low, they contain alot of unwanted bloatware for compaines to brand their devices and as a result of this, storage space is low.
These ROMz however, provide a base for devlopers to work with. These are the ROMz that 95% of us have on our devices. On that note, we should be thankful that ROMz are updated by manufacturers....beacuase, again it provides raw materials to work with.
Try joining a manufacturer or carrier forum where thoughts & concerns of the ROMz in question can be viewed by representatives of the manufacturers.
Rom behavior:
There's no such thing as a perfect ROM. Some work better than others. What works good for me on my device may not work for you....
Factory or Cooked
D W N Y +1
Development is the name of the game. Move the thread to Walala land
And no, you should not be fooled feling "happy" with a glimp of possibilities provided by HTC. Nice quote "raw materials".
(and believe me, I DO know how they "develop" @ HTC here. They still learn from our own chefs (from outside the mouth of the horse)
I am Glad to see the WWE Official version out now.
Now that the Official version is out I will wait for our resident cooks to make a good rom out of it. Since the first day I got the Tilt I Hard SPL'ed it and got rid of the AT&T bloat and flashed a Schaps rom. I did try the new WWE from HTC but had some problems with it but I didn't take the time to try a different radio. So I am sure with the correct radio it would have been better then the one it came with. Depending on where you live your carrier and the service offered in your area have a lot to do with what radio works best. At least that has been my experience. But the one thing I know that is I seem to prefer the cooked roms if they use an official base. So I will wait and hopefully Schaps will be releasing soon. Thats my 2 cents!
Ed...
happy user, but could be happier.
I'm looking in every now and then following up on development av new ROMs, but it seems as this has stopped.
alcaline no longer develops his ROM and there hasn't been any resent updates in arpy's thread either. Have I missed someone? Are there more ROMs out there for the Wings that I don't know of?
If you know, post some info or maybe some links to new ROMs that are compatible with the Wings (s730).
TIA
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=397164
And i am going to upload the kitchen for wings
because i don't have this phone.
Excelent!
Must have passed right beneeth my nose
thx!
Not much going on for the Wings (cooked ROMs)
I think the development of cooked roms for the Wings are fainting. Unfortunately I would say because I think there is lots to gain if someone develop a better and faster WM6.1 ROM for our unit. There are 2 ROMS available now and for both ROMS counts that there is not much going on in terms of development.
I currently use Alcaline's cooked ROM. It does a fine job but there are some glitches to work on. Unfortunately Alcaline stops working on the project.
True. Seems sad, as this is a great unit.
I'm thinking about taking up development of a ROM but I have to read up on a couple of things first. I'm no programmer but a amature hacker. So don't expect any miracles (or speed for that matter).
Any input from the already enlightened would be nice.
To me it seems that there is no more exciting things to work on for this phone.
The speed (or lack of speed) is due to the crappy phone itself. So not much to do about this
Except disabling the home screen, with increases the overall usage quite a bit for me at least.
But disabling this makes the whole interface ugly.
So I am holding on to this phone just hoping that a unit with Google Android will pop up in near future,
where everything is customizable
I recently see this thread, and i feel it in the same way, do you?
here is the original Thread:
yipeng said:
我个人觉得现在的rom发布已经陷入一种怪圈了，有没有人进来一起聊聊
现在的新rom真是曾出不穷啊，每每有新核心或者新驱动出来的时候，各大高手纷纷抛出自己的作品，引的无数机油纷纷尝试。等到新鲜劲过去，各种在使用中的bug报告也纷纷出炉。而此时往往又有新的内核发布，于是现有的rom又被人们遗弃在一边而去追求更新的版本去了。
但是这样究竟有什么意义呢？难道新版本号的几个数字的变化真的能让使用者感到翻天覆地的变化吗？
我认为一个真正的高手应该致力于某一个版本，比如简体中文的20769版的不断改进和发展，直至制作出一款接近完美的作品。而不是简单的汉化最新的英文rom，加上一点自己的创新就急匆匆地发布，以至于老bug还没有解决就出现一堆新bug
能被人们长久的记住的是永恒的经典而不是昙花一现的前卫
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My translation: (sorry for my poor English)
I personally feel that the publication of Roms is trap in a strange circle, anyone notice?
Now new roms are flooded in the forum. Every time there is a new build, all cookers are working hard with the new build rom and then publicize it. Then People flash the new rom. After the freshness of the new Rom is gone, bugs are the offspring. However, a newer rom is out, then People do it again until the next more newer rom, and then on and on.
What is the meaning of getting the new rom? Is there any significant improve between a earlier and later build?
I believe that a really cooker should focus on one build, such as the Chinese Simple Build 20769, until a perfect rom is born. But not translate the rom into Chinese and add some new features then rush to publicize the so called product, which cause the old bugs are not solved but new bugs keep coming out.
What impress people is the perfectly perfect, not the newest.
to be honest, i don't think cookers just rush to the newer build. i have tried many ROMs and see many cookers struggling with fixing bugs like miri, onkolog, duttys, they all try to fix all the bugs they can. but most of these bugs has to do with manila or MS, so its out of their hand.
IMO, i don't think perfectly perfect is what i want, cuz i will get bored with perfectly perfect. i like a mix of decently perfect and newest
I agree with some of the stuff. The choice of which ROM you wish to flash is entirely up to you. If you're even slightly interested in picking a good ROM, then surely you know that installing the latest "state-of-the-art" ROM unavoidably includes some compromises (read: Bugs. Bunch of them. Bugsville!).
The biggest step forward in Blackstone ROM's have been Dutty 1.8. After that we have had 1.9, and then a whole flood of latest Topaz and Rhodium ROMs. That first one was a bug fest, but the second version was already close to perfection. The third was even better.
In terms of "freshness" these are now not new ROMs, but the advantage over the latest ones are:
- bugs have been brought to minimum
- any possible issues have been covered in length
- workarounds, hacks and stuff like that is usually also available in detail
So, to say that chefs should stick to just one ROM is silly. You're fighting progress here, and in a scene such as XDA expecting chefs to stick with just one ROM and polish it to perfection is not very realistic.
Chefs do what they do. They cook up stuff and offer it to the community. The community then tastes the new stuff, tears it apart to bits an pieces, usually finds ways to improve it, and then the cycle starts over.
It's just how it is.
If you want reliability, pick a ROM that's say 1-2 months old. Or even better - stick with the default one.
Good point but...
I have found a perfect rom... and every time the cooker comes out with an other new it is even better and nicer... It's the theme I'm facing to follow the upgrades as it's becoming more an more nicer in temes of icons splash screens etc...
So for me is ok when they go ahead.
If you don't like to flash all the time... just have a look for your perfect rom and stay with it...
Have a nice day
Roman
..nobody is obliged in flashing the newest ROM with the latest arrivals! a new ROM is simply an offer, it is up to you to decide your own policy. Some cooks go for reliability and bugs fixing, some cooks for the latest features: the same should be for users. While HTC has to support all users independently of their knowlegde (and in this respect Apple does a much better job...they are even able to support dummies and old ladies! ), i assume that people navigating here is an intelligent and aware user, capable of picking up what's best for him, based on the feedback of the other people.
In my opinion, the Cooked ROMs are Waaaaaaaaaaaay better in stability, performance and have much better features integrated than the Stock ROMs. So, if not for this community and the Cooked ROMs, I would be changing devices instead of the ROMs. So, I am happy (stike that) rather glad to be using Cooked ROMs and testing them.
It' a game. And I hope for all of us that nobody is really addicted to flash again and again.
So, I can only speak for myself and I am old enough to know what I do and why I flash a new version of my rom. I have reasons for and flash not every versions. I check before if it has improvements for me and only flash it in this case, then check it and when it has fewer issues, I let it stay.
But you are right, some comments in the forum are strange and it seems to be, that some users here flash only because there is a "newer" rom. Most of them doesn't know exectly what they are doing and when something goes wrong (in most of the cases) they overflow the forum whith their questions.
1. for me it's that the stock rom is filled with buggs, but tweakable.
2. I try cooked roms with some bugs, better tweaked.
3. with their updates less bugs, max tweaked.
4. one day you find your perfect rom without any bugs, maximum speed & satisfaction.
5. but I'm getting bored.
6. so I'm getting interested in new stuff (at the moment it's windows 6.5, new manila) and I find myself in flashing new roms with bugs.
7. goto 1.
well, it's just fun
No offence but is it absolutely necassary to start a new thread for every little thing that comes to mind?
What we have to remember here is the cooks and developers that are bringing us custom ROM's do it because they realize the short-fall of official ROM's and possibly they enjoy it, plus there's always hope of reward.
If you think you can do a better job then stop criticizing put on your Apron and start cooking, believe me its not as easy as it looks, at least not so easy to solve bugs, the process is very time consuming.
Rozenthal said:
The biggest step forward in Blackstone ROM's have been Dutty 1.8. After that we have had 1.9, and then a whole flood of latest Topaz and Rhodium ROMs. That first one was a bug fest, but the second version was already close to perfection. The third was even better.
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I am now with Dutty's 1.7 which is the stablest one before all the topaz/rhodium ROMs.
I've tried Dutty's 2.1 and had a lot of bugs, I've tried L26 v.8 and v.9 but still to many bugs (espcially with camera and album rotation).
for my experince i think the topaz is more stable. I like the new contact manager and new dialer and some others like the calculator and Calendar tab.
I don't like the new rhodium program menu since HTC coverd all tracks of WM (for better or for worse)
Please advise me which ROM (that has the features that I've mentioned) is the most stable and bug free...(best if you mention versions from Dutty, L26, Daviduek or other known cookers). best if as close to a stable HTC diamond 2/pro2 that is out there already.
I think the perfect rom is a myth and doesn't exist. Tweaks and fixes will always need to be applied to roms. I don't think cookers will rush to newer builds. I have tried many ROMs and seen many cookers struggling with fixing bugs. No cooker wants their rom full of bugs. Why would they? No one would use their rom! They all try to fix all the bugs they can, but most of these bugs has to do with manila or MS, so its out of their hands.
If we had the perfect rom, would we not get bored? Isn't it the tweaking and fixing that we are addicted to?
The choice of which ROM you wish to flash is entirely up to you. Everyone whats the latest, the newest. Its part of human culture. But with new comes the unknown, i.e. unknown bugs. As Rozenthal said, their is a compromise!
Dutty has released countless new versions to his Rhodium rom to solve bugs and because of this bugs have been brought to minimum.
I tryed only 3 cooked rom for HD, because reading the opinions of people that try it before me, I have learned that this 3 were without problems. I haven't yet tryed one with manila V3 because I'm waiting one that works well and because I use PDA and want phone that in the need moment not crashs or has some bugs. So, who use phone every day I think that he uses a rom without bugs, who has more time to spend can also try new roms and reports bugs.
I totaly agree with the originator of this blog.
I've tried roms from dutty, hellonasty, lavrentius, davideuck, maglite (russian guy), neos2007. And I noticed that the roms that I liked the most were developed from the shipped HTC WWE 1.19.831 rom (os build 20764, 20769, 21015, 21018), not the latest one from topaz or rhodium. And I do believe this rom was for Hong-Kong devices.
may be it is my visual perception .
Neos2007s rom +1
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Waiting for the best WM 6.5 rom
What I miss at this forum, is a ROM with a honest, complete list of known bugs/non-working stuff.
Would like to see some quality-control, and know what I install - before I do.
Everybody is cooking ROM's (and that's nice) but there's no way to know how they will work before trying.
-its impossible to read thru >200 posts and figure out which of those are about the current version.
-recent posts are sometimes about earlier versions too...
Please: I hope some of you that des this nice job will focus on information about quality, and keep a "buglist" for each version..
AlCapone said:
What I miss at this forum, is a ROM with a honest, complete list of known bugs/non-working stuff.
Would like to see some quality-control, and know what I install - before I do.
Everybody is cooking ROM's (and that's nice) but there's no way to know how they will work before trying.
-its impossible to read thru >200 posts and figure out which of those are about the current version.
-recent posts are sometimes about earlier versions too...
Please: I hope some of you that des this nice job will focus on information about quality, and keep a "buglist" for each version..
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Click to collapse
I agree 100% Buglists are a must. Roms shouldn't be released with alot of bugs unless stated by the op.
husker91 said:
I agree 100% Buglists are a must. Roms shouldn't be released with alot of bugs unless stated by the op.
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I think the point you're missing is that the bugs only become apparent after others flash the ROMs and do some testing.....
cr1960 said:
apparent after others flash the ROMs and do some testing.....
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nope - the author/or a helper is in the ultimate position to read the feedback, verify, and make a list in the first article containing these bugs.
i did not say that the cook should know about every bug before releasing.
maintain a list, and verify it against next version.
-the only way to have some quality control...
I agree with the sentiment - for those of us who only flash their phones maybe once a month, it would be nice to know a ROM is ultra stable and all known bugs / oddities have been sorted. (or if not, then a comprehensive list of things that are broken, with any workarounds etc) Reading through thousands of posts takes hours and not everybody has the time or inclination for that.
For instance both WM and Manila (and others) are under very active development, there are always new versions coming out. While it would be unreasonable to expect the beta WM builds (23xxx, 28xxx) to be 100% stable, it would be nice for a cook or two to say "right, this combination of components is stable, I'm going to stick with these for a while" instead of always following the very latest cutting edge "LOOK, SHINY TOYS!" at the risk of stability.
As for stability I am currently on JoshKoss's latest (1.7) and have yet to experience a single error, crash or hang. And Josh's seem to be the fastest ROMs, definitely of the ones I have experienced anyway. There are a few minor inconsistencies but these are in no way critical. If you want stable I would not even consider Manila 2.5 or any of the "start menu at the bottom" ROMs.
Have you tried AthineOS ROMS? Very fast, very stable. The current Leo 2.02 based ROM is the fastest Sense 2.5 ROM I've tried (and I've tried them all) and stable enough for hassle-free day to day use.
Guyz As far as my experience goes no cook likes to hide the bug list, rather they work to bring more in the light. Users like us are expected to give our submissions. Thats how it works. Things like quality control is not what we have seen here since its not GM factory but a place to share & experiment & success & failure is part of that place.
AlCapone said:
nope - the author/or a helper is in the ultimate position to read the feedback, verify, and make a list in the first article containing these bugs.
i did not say that the cook should know about every bug before releasing.
maintain a list, and verify it against next version.
-the only way to have some quality control...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely disagree. At the rate new builds are released, and with so many new tweaks and items going into ROMs, I think it would take forever for the chef and a select few beta testers to try and figure out all or most bugs in a ROM. I use Arrups ROMs, and he discloses everything that he can, but ultimately its not the chefs responsibility to create a "perfect" rom for Al Capone is it? Everyone uses different applications which can affect the stability of a ROM completely-for example Opera beta 10. I think its much more efficient to have them release the ROMs and let lots of people try and break them, then come back and fix it. And when bugs arise the are put on a "bug list" to be fixed.
We would never see new ROM releases for months if we waited for chefs to perfect stuff. So the people who just flash and leach ROMs cant help out a little?
Since you are so anxious about having a perfect ROM, why dont you have a go at it? Or is *****ing easier?
MadBeef said:
As for stability I am currently on JoshKoss's latest (1.7) and have yet to experience a single error, crash or hang. And Josh's seem to be the fastest ROMs, definitely of the ones I have experienced anyway. There are a few minor inconsistencies but these are in no way critical. If you want stable I would not even consider Manila 2.5 or any of the "start menu at the bottom" ROMs.
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X2, This is a very stable ROM. I have been running it close to 2 weeks with no real issues & haven't had to soft reset because of a glitch or hang up.
I have to chime in here and agree with the sentiment of this thread. The application of it is much more difficult that it seems. I have been down this road before, trying to get the chefs to post a comprehensive bug list for their ROMs and while they are willing to do it, it is VERY difficult to tell what is a real bug and what is OE (operator error), confusion caused by loading some application, etc that really isn't a bug or a real bug.
For example, I have been running Sergio76's EVO 3 ROM for sometime now, and have absolutely nothing bad to say about it. Stable as hell, fast, good memory, good battery etc. But some of the other users of the same ROM find 'bugs' mostly caused by putting different shells on, or trying to icon sets.
So, my point is BRAVO! this needs to be done, but let's have a good discussion of how to categorize what is a bug, what is an incompatibility, etc. Because, if we simply list all these things as bugs then we run the risk of scaring folks off of flashing a potentially GREAT ROM all because one or two guys muck it up by hacking the registry and it gets put on a bug list.
I would also like to see a 'standard' way all the chefs list bugs, etc.
Russ
iceman4357 said:
why dont you have a go at it? Or is *****ing easier?
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bit harsh tbh
MadBeef said:
bit harsh tbh
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I was actually holding back a lot. Unfortunately 90% of people on here dont contribute anything and just expect stuff to happen perfectly. If its so easy, then instead of creating an entire thread to talk about problems, why not make a "perfect" Rom and contribute.
iceman4357 said:
Since you are so anxious about having a perfect ROM, why dont you have a go at it? Or is *****ing easier?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your own *****ing certainly does not help.
read my lips:
-I do NOT ask for a "perfect" ROM
-I just ask for the cook/helper to browse thru the reply-posts, and add known bugs they can confirm, to the first post - the one that contains the ROM
-So any ROM can have a list of known errors, (the the author confirms)
AlCapone said:
your own *****ing certainly does not help.
read my lips:
-I do NOT ask for a "perfect" ROM
-I just ask for the cook/helper to browse thru the reply-posts, and add known bugs they can confirm, to the first post - the one that contains the ROM
-So any ROM can have a list of known errors, (the the author confirms)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the chef should worry about reading the 200 posts that you were worried about reading instead of working on ROMs? I am sure that chef mailboxes are full of people reporting bugs on a daily basis.
There are people other than the chefs that have a good deal of experience that help within the thread posts, that free up the chef to continue experimenting and cooking ROMs.
A lot of "common" bugs are specific to builds, such as the landscape issues vs touchflow(sense), or GPS lag which take a lot of time and programming to figure out. These are commonly known across ROMs and builds.
A lot of smaller bugs are from individual customization errors like with S2U2, Opera Beta, lack of knowledge, or custom tweaking.
Chefs, in my opinion, are here to provide a decent platform ROM for us to costimize individually; not to help each individual person with each custom problem they have.
x2
Montea said:
X2, This is a very stable ROM. I have been running it close to 2 weeks with no real issues & haven't had to soft reset because of a glitch or hang up.
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can u link me up with the x2 rom u speak about?thanks
oyebee said:
can u link me up with the x2 rom u speak about?thanks
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=572938
We were on about JoshKoss's ROMs.
I've said this for years, something like bugzilla would be good. Not that I have ever used it but something with a bit of structure you know? Flag bugs by component (ie. Manila footprints tab, lock screen, or whatever) then by ROM so the system will know already if it is ROM specific or not. But it still relies on people adding good data, as the saying goes, "Garbage In Garbage Out". An automated config dump tool would be a good step towards that. (an end-to-end "report bug" app would be awesome) After all I don't know what point release of Manila I'm running (1921? 1922??) because I don't really care unless it breaks, or a newer version has more shiny.
Anyway I said this a while ago and we are still "*****ing" about ROMs at a fairly disorganised level, and yet the cooks continue to work their magic, so it can't be all that bad
From another guy who comes on here with not very much to offer yet continues to leech a new ROM once a month or so
Stop the Madness...
Oh Geez....
Yes, I am one of the lurkers here at XDA, having been flashing my phones for years and not really contributing much to the community.
I have made a New Year's resolution to change that, so I am posting more now.
But look at some of the most popular ROMS....
Within hours of a Chef releasing a new version, there are hundreds of posts about it.
From what I gather, 95% if not more of these guys/gals cook up these ROMs in their spare time. They do it because they like to do it. I don't think anyone here is getting rich cooking up a ROM for my TP2. They all have lives and when there can be 40+ pages of posts within a couple days after they release a new version, I don't expect them to read every single one. Especially where a vast majority are people asking how to flash the ROM, how to change the theme or other posts that a simple search would provide the answer.
Most Chefs do post what was fixed, what was improved and a lot of them post issues in their ROMS.
I have spent hours reading page after page trying to figure out an answer to a issue I have had...knowing I was probably not the only one having it.
Do some Chef's not post as much info as I would like? Yes.
Am I going to berate those Chefs for not doing so? No.
Some of the responsibility has to be on the users. Period.
For example, I was and am a fan of the Energy ROMs. But I SMS an insane amount and the newest Leo interface with the HTC messaging client sucked, period. Not to say NRGZ28's ROMs sucked, quite the contrary, they are great. But did those ROMs fill every need that I specifically had? No.
So, I did some research, and I found in a thread where Agent_47 suggested his ROM because he didn't even cook in the HTC SMS messaging client. So, I looked at his thread, flashed the ROM, and realized that I have had no issues with it and am very happy. Stable, works and I don't have to wait 7 minutes sometimes to send a text to someone!
We are all very lucky to have XDA. We are all very lucky to have the Chefs that spend their own time, and a lot of it, to cook up these excellent ROMs for us to flash.
Instead of complaining about the lack of 'bug lists'...perhaps you could create a tool or set something up to help the Chefs better manage those said lists?
That is the spirit that has and continues to make XDA great, if there is something you want, something that you see lacking, then create a tool to fill that void.
If you don't want to do that, then I suggest getting an iPhone, where you are locked into your OS and a slave to Apple and their constant updates and static interface. Cool device, granted, but I prefer the freedom of flashing, the excitement of trying new interfaces, experimenting with new features and lastly, the great folks here at XDA.
\.end rant
Spankmeister said:
I suggest getting an iPhone
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Let's not get silly