Related
The site is up and running, discussion here!
Frontpage is done, see http://www.htcclassaction.org/. Feel free to comment. None of the other pages on the site are done yet, though.
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
There isn't really a point to the petition, as companies don't really care. There probably isn't a big point with a class action lawsuit either, as it's entirely possible we won't win. It is something that should be investigated, as ultimately, it's just a way of applying pressure, getting publicity and raising awareness.
And nope, I'm not a former employee, but I am disgruntled by the way HTC is treating us.
Looks very good!
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
jackleung said:
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The most basic rule when buying a PDA: Only buy what you know youre getting, not what you think youre getting. I learnt that the hard way three years ago,its the same game all over. I think its an annual event.
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you should read the main thread before posting crap like this. There are plenty of people, including myself who think a class action suite would be a good idea. Even if we didn't win or had no real grounds for one, the negative feedback alone could cause HTC to do something about the driver support.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339745
Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Chainfire mentioned, petitions never work. This is because people eventually "cool off" and stop caring that they've been ripped off.
If I paid a lot less for my Kaiser, I wouldn't care as much that it's being outperformed by the older cheaper HTC models. We paid an arm and leg for these costly phones, we'd expect them to at least give us the basics (drivers).
How would you feel if you bought some fancy & expensive graphics board only to have to use the generic drivers that come with your OS?
Chainfire, great work. Let us know when you've set up the paypal account.
Oh, by the way, wonderful site Chainfire. It has all the info needed in one neatly organized site.
Excellent site Chainfire. If this is indicative of the effort you put into things, my previous (and future) donations have been well spent!! Very clear and to the point.
I posted a link on the "Proper video drivers...." sticky to a Google page tlaking about the bright new future of Android. Just wondered if it is worth highlighting to visitors to the site that HTC is one of the core companies developing this - perhaps if they realise HTC's attitude will affect more than just the current devices. Or maybe they won't care as most casual browsers don't know what Android is? Ah, I don't know.
Hey, if we draw public attention to all this, and then someone manages to address the issue here on XDA-devs, could that cause problems - infringment of copyright etc?
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter. What do 99% of people do with their Kaisers anyway? There are lots of people around me where I work that use Windows smart phones and they are happy to get their push mail, GPS, bluetooth, whatever. I think they could care less about video drivers.
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have some video acceleration, but most users probably could care less. We are the minority.
I think raising awareness is a great idea. Perhaps listing those manufactures that actually support their WinMo devices with proper drivers is even better, so potential buyers would know to spend their money else wehere.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things.
If you bought an unlocked Kaiser and spend a large bit of cash, well you take the first movers risk. No reason anyone couldn't wait to see what others though of the device before purchasing it.
You certainly can't will things into existence. Can't buy an HTC phone and wish into existence some drivers that it never had in the first place.
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
I'm not trying to ruin anyones plans or desires to get the most out of their phones, but why not just not buy the phone?
I for one look forward to something like Android, so hobbiests and consumers can put the features they want to exploit in to place on phones like the Kaiser. I hope this drastically changes the market and gives us more choice in our software, and forces manufacturers to do more than the bare minimum with these devices.
-James
jmacdonald801 said:
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, given older HTC devices never mentioned video acceleration in their specs either and that they're certainly performing better than the Kaiser, I think it's fair to expect performance which at the very least matches that of former models.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things...
...As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
jomo25 said:
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe, as stated elsewhere, it's mostly a pressure and publicity tool. In the end, if we do do the case, it doesn't even really matter if we win it. The publicity and awareness it will generate... There's the headology factor. People are happy using a gadget. People learn the gadget can do a lot more then it does. People are unhappy using the gadget. People complain about the gadget. Creator of gadget fixes gadget
Mark my words, if enough attention is given to this, HTC will do the right thing, if only to save face.
Great site so far Chainfire. I pray that this brings enough attention to move HTC to action. Without those drivers, I can compare this to buying a Corvette only to realize once on the road that the governor is set to 30mph.
Satus update
Status update:
The site is almost finished and uploaded, apart from the "Responses from HTC" section.
- Please read the 'drivers in detail' page and tell me what you think
- Please help me collect 'carrier branded' names of the devices in question
I have also setup a paypal address for donations for the AdWords campaign only, you can find a button on the "What you can do" page. I already put 100 euro's in there myself, and it's been getting extra visitors for almost an hour now.
Before I finish the "Responses from HTC" part, start submitting to slashdot, digg, etc, it's time for dinner
you might want to add the htc vogue/sprint touch to your list on htcclassaction.org, it suffers the same problem and i believe it has a similar chipset with the same 3d hardware.
i think htc will just say,well just because the chipset we use has 3d hardware built in doesn't mean we have to enable or support it because it was never advertised as such.
I'd have to download and extract a ROM to be sure though, I'll do that later.
jmacdonald801 said:
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said...but I am a little under the influence right now. To be honest, my phone works for GPS, works for email, works for web browsing, sync's via activesync, plays movies just fine (no slider issues when adjusting sound), allows me to read ebooks, works with office mobile (though I would like to be able to save Word documents as .DOC files, not .DOCX). Guess I'm with the 99% because I really don't see any issues with the phone that cause me to get on a soapbox. I really don't care if this makes me unpopular, but I'm so sick of people coming on this forum and moaning about video driver issues. Show me one other device that does all the things that a Kaiser can do? iPhone, no GPS and limited open source unless you want to run the risk of bricking the device, Nokia? Please, I had the 9xxx series of communicators for years. I had the choice between the latest comunicator series or the Kaiser, I went with the Kaiser as Symbian sucked. The N95, QWERTY keyboard???
This phone is not designed as a graphics device, its a business tool. If you want DVD quality movies, buy a portable DVD player, graphic intensive games, get a PSP. I have a Nokia 2110 mobile from 10 years ago that can't handle MID files, a Garmin Sat-Nav the size of a house brick and a digital camera that uses 3.5" floppy discs cause memory cards hadn't been invented when it was launched. HTC have packed an MP3 player, sat-nav, laptop computer, digital camera, mobile phone (...the list goes on) inside a device the size of a packet of cigarettes. Personally I think this is amazing, lets give them a bit of credit for doing this!
[/drunk rant off...]
Sorry for sounding so ...angry..but this phone just cost me not only 800 bucks..but 1700 dollars round trip to the place i got it from...so please understand my point of view
Ok so since no one answered my question and my problem with my phone (phone died 5 mins after using it) Please answer me this:
Why should I even think about keeping my htc diamond (thats ofcourse if i decide to replace my current dead one)?
I have a feeling that this phone is so bugged, it should be cheaper, should have some kind of customer support, and should be in a reasonable working condition when you open up the box of this epensive phone and be able to do w/e it is advertises to do.
none of these pointers even come close to the HTC Diamond. It is expensive, Tech support is just halarious (a month to !!REPAIR!! my phone and then the return ground trip- I cant even replace it) and even then, your warranty is not 100% guarenteed, and last but not least, It does not work 100% when you open it up and get ready to use it
I bet if i buy a 350 dollars phone (lets say the LG rumer) id have a better experiance, without touch screen (omg its the endz of ze w0rldz!!!).
I understand what this phone is, or at least have an idea of what it's capable(at least I think, BECAUSE I ONLY USED IT FOR 5 MINS!!), but looking at this phone's forum section, quite a few ppl are having 1 or more issues with this phone.
Am I better off returning this piece of junk and getting something similar for cheaper? (iphone 3G i can grab it from a duty free airport for around 750 USD). Or a blackbarry bold, or the samsung touchscreen one..
seriously When I called HTC, they not only treated me like garbage, the rep sounded happy as if he has just ripped me off with a crappy phone and tried dhis best not to have me try to rma my phone ( and he succeeded, Im returning to the airport i bought this junk from and replacing it/ buying another brand)
But if I am missing something, then please tell me, what makes this phone so special ?
BTW I live in NA, so the freaking 3G for this phone, as u all know doesnt work ---> Another feature right out the ****ing window.
if you dont like it take it back. end of story. if you dont love it, you dont deserve it. buy an iphone, nothing ever goes wrong with those.
yeah i agree go buy an iphone.
it sounds as though it would suit you better
as its made for people like you.
i thought, i hoped that we got past the "whining" period. i was wrong.
in the first 2 month after diamond was out the forum was full with this kind of useless threads. this thread if not killed by a moderator is going to become a chat room where some ppl (mostly noobs) are going to add their frustration, some ppl are going to flame you (the "crazy about diamond" ones), some are going to send you to flash and tweak it (it seems that you don't like the idea) and some are going to plain and simple send you to give it back and end the drama.
in short if u are expecting 20 replays trying to convince you to keep it, you are wrong.
lol what a post.
A user-forum moderats itself to a high degree. If there are many people with same problems you'll find so called whining threads more often, if not the corrosponding thread will vanish quickly.
It's more or less normal to find many threads about different problems with a new and well sold device but its a a warning sign to find problem-threads with lots of people in there, reporting the same issue.
If one call it noobish to complain about problems with customer-service or getting the device to work fluidly out of the box, he does manufacturers like htc a realy big favour, perhaps for some people a reason to be proud of.
GPS-lag, sound-lag, enexpected resets, speed-issues with and without TF3D, way to less volume of internal speaker, bad border responsivity of touch-screen, bad umts signal strength, peeling off of screen, peeling off of button area, all this are all but not single-user issues, most of the are my issues too.
I've never came across before a PDA-device with so many major design-flaws like the diamond. If someone says "you have to understand htc, it's impossible to create a perfect device" or "stop whining the diamond is a well done device", I'm wondering whats the planet, he's living on. Perhaps he won it on a tombola so he has no reason to complain because he has not spend any money on it.
One of the main-reasons for me, to buy a new PDA was internal GPS. Cause of the lag, it is more or less useless for me. I like to hear mp3's with my PDA, again its quite useless because of another lag with the sound-output. I like it to take handwritten notes with my PDA - but its to laggy on the diamond, so I can forgett about it.
Perhaps htc should make clear that this phone is only for tolerant experts, like the guys in this forum who are calling people noob, cause they only want to use their device.
Keeping Diamond is not obligatory, if you don't like this phone, simply give it back and buy something you like. It's simple as that.
or perhaps they call them noobs because they seem to be incapable
of sorting out the few problems with stuff off here like the rest of us have.
this is a developers website not a site for those who just see it as a
pretty phone.
let the flame war BEGIN...
Hey, some people just have bad luck with these things, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
There are plenty of people who were on the fence about the first iPhone, and after seeing its success decided to take the plunge with the iPhone 3G (seeing that Apple finally added GPS and 3G). And lots of people have had nothing but problems with the iPhone 3G from day one. Poor or nonexistent 3G reception, laggy or inaccurate GPS, Safari crashing frequently, 8-hour long backups, major problems with iTunes and the App Store (which Apple keeps on a short leash), and the whole debacle with MobileMe.
And people will just as quickly step in and excuse Apple for any criticisms of the iPhone. So it happens to everyone -- these devices aren't the holy grail, there's always going to be imperfections one way or another. If you were unfortunate enough to experience a great deal of problems then probably nothing can change your mind. But there's nothing that says you won't have bad luck on any other device.
I guess the point is that most users here hold no illusions that somewhere, some large sum of money can buy a device "that just works"; there really is no device that's that capable. But that's the whole reason why this forum is here. If you have a problem, someone can help. If you have a lot of problems... well, there's a lot of people here.
Blazeitup123 said:
let the flame war BEGIN...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sometimes i surprise myself....i am waiting another day or two and then i'll have to say it: i told you so!
Token42 said:
A user-forum moderats itself to a high degree. If there are many people with same problems you'll find so called whining threads more often, if not the corrosponding thread will vanish quickly.
It's more or less normal to find many threads about different problems with a new and well sold device but its a a warning sign to find problem-threads with lots of people in there, reporting the same issue.
If one call it noobish to complain about problems with customer-service or getting the device to work fluidly out of the box, he does manufacturers like htc a realy big favour, perhaps for some people a reason to be proud of.
GPS-lag, sound-lag, enexpected resets, speed-issues with and without TF3D, way to less volume of internal speaker, bad border responsivity of touch-screen, bad umts signal strength, peeling off of screen, peeling off of button area, all this are all but not single-user issues, most of the are my issues too.
I've never came across before a PDA-device with so many major design-flaws like the diamond. If someone says "you have to understand htc, it's impossible to create a perfect device" or "stop whining the diamond is a well done device", I'm wondering whats the planet, he's living on. Perhaps he won it on a tombola so he has no reason to complain because he has not spend any money on it.
One of the main-reasons for me, to buy a new PDA was internal GPS. Cause of the lag, it is more or less useless for me. I like to hear mp3's with my PDA, again its quite useless because of another lag with the sound-output. I like it to take handwritten notes with my PDA - but its to laggy on the diamond, so I can forgett about it.
Perhaps htc should make clear that this phone is only for tolerant experts, like the guys in this forum who are calling people noob, cause they only want to use their device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from cambridge dictionary
whiner
noun [C] DISAPPROVING
a person, especially a child, who complains or expresses dissatisfaction continually
didn't call anybody whiner on my post (whining period).
didn't call the thread opener a noob.
1. i never said diamond is perfect but this is not the place to complain about the quality of diamond. htc diamond is a htc product. whine/complain to the htc. this is a developers forum, here you'll find ppl that are continuously improving the device. what's the point of such a thread here? what's the point? we all know too well the flows of the diamond.
2. looking at my sig you can see a partial list of the devices i own. none of them was so challenging like the diamond and in my eyes that's the beauty of it.
3. because i bought one of the first diamond arrived i paid 5000 NIS/3.5=1428$! not cheap. i also wanted to return the diamond but this was in the first days of diamond. there were no cooked ROMs and no smart tweaks and advanced configurations.... i also was a noob.. i search, i asked, i got flamed, i experimented and i can say that today i have N O N E of the problems you described. only yesterday i tried 4 new ROMs. today i am settled for at least one month with swiftbl's latest. no lag on GPS, no lag on scrolling, listening some trance with the a2dp without lag or skips (using coreplayer). didn't like the htc player so f...k. it, i bought the coreplayer.
4. sometimes i think that diamond is not a device, diamond is a kit, a "do it by yourself" gadget. don't buy it if you don't have time to assembly it.
stop complaining h e r e ! not satisfied? do something! complain to htc (not here) or return the device or invest some precious time to transform yr expensive toy from the legendary frog to the handsome prince. and no, kissing it is not enough!
I've nothing useful to add to this thread except to express my amazement that anyone would pay so much money for this device!
Mine was free on a contract that will end up costing me about the same amount over 18 months but that includes 400 talk minutes and unlimited texts. Also, I went into it with my eyes open - I knew it was not going to be as friendly or reliable as a Nokia.
If you're going to travel long distances to buy an expensive product, do some research first!
Davey101 said:
I've nothing useful to add to this thread except to express my amazement that anyone would pay so much money for this device!
Mine was free on a contract that will end up costing me about the same amount over 18 months but that includes 400 talk minutes and unlimited texts. Also, I went into it with my eyes open - I knew it was not going to be as friendly or reliable as a Nokia.
If you're going to travel long distances to buy an expensive product, do some research first!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
after years with this forum in my i-mate, trinity and athena period i'll buy a brick if i'll be sure that xda-dev is supporting it
Of course this is a developer-forum, not intended for exchanging critics on a device, without wanting or excepting to solve the criticized problems. But sometimes it goes off-topic, someone complains and a so called flamewar is created. But even a flamewar is nothing else but a discussion in a discussion-forum. I see no problem in this behavour of forums.
I think responsible people on the manufacturer-side are aware of common problems, discussed in forums like this. Because they are owning such a device by their selfs, or they are interested in, because it's their job. So perhaps critizising really anoying issues can't be done to an extend, high enough.
It's true - devices like PDA's can't be perfect, they are too complicated. But even a mixer is too complicated to be perfect.
When I buy a mixer and it's somewhat too loud or a little weak, I can say: "Hey its not what I'm expected, but it's OK for the money." But when I have to switch the mixer on 3 minutes before I want to use it, cause it has a power-on lag, or if it allways looses the mixing attachment I say its bull****.
When I buy a top-class PDA promoted for GPS, PIM and MP3 and I can do nothing of it without big problems, I think also it's bull****.
OK - one could say "Its not a problem for all, it's only 50% with GPS-lag" - hey that makes me much more enthusastic to try other htc-products.
As someone allready suggested, I can simply buy another pda - yes I can can and will, but thats a reason not to complain about a product I've bought?
fhsieh said:
Hey, some people just have bad luck with these things, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
There are plenty of people who were on the fence about the first iPhone, and after seeing its success decided to take the plunge with the iPhone 3G (seeing that Apple finally added GPS and 3G). And lots of people have had nothing but problems with the iPhone 3G from day one. Poor or nonexistent 3G reception, laggy or inaccurate GPS, Safari crashing frequently, 8-hour long backups, major problems with iTunes and the App Store (which Apple keeps on a short leash), and the whole debacle with MobileMe.
And people will just as quickly step in and excuse Apple for any criticisms of the iPhone. So it happens to everyone -- these devices aren't the holy grail, there's always going to be imperfections one way or another. If you were unfortunate enough to experience a great deal of problems then probably nothing can change your mind. But there's nothing that says you won't have bad luck on any other device.
I guess the point is that most users here hold no illusions that somewhere, some large sum of money can buy a device "that just works"; there really is no device that's that capable. But that's the whole reason why this forum is here. If you have a problem, someone can help. If you have a lot of problems... well, there's a lot of people here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st rule before you buy something
do your homework
you only have yourself to blame if you find out its not for you after you have spent all that money....DOH!
P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.
liamhere said:
do your homework
you only have yourself to blame if you find out its not for you after you have spent all that money....DOH!
P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course my mistake, not HTC's. Seems you're really clever. I think I proceed to blame myself and you can proceed to blame others.
Token42 said:
Of course my mistake, not HTC's. Seems you're really clever. I think I proceed to blame myself and you can proceed to blame others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just for the record,
my comment was for the thread starter and not aimed at you.
note to self....must use quote more
KukurikU said:
after years with this forum in my i-mate, trinity and athena period i'll buy a brick if i'll be sure that xda-dev is supporting it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+.
Couldn't put it in a better way!
Coming back to the actual Diamond "problems" mentioned:
Even with the first couple of original HTC roms, I never experienced any GPS lag, mp3 lag etc etc. Only the start-up lag is rather annoying, but hey... how fast does your Windows Vista PC boot up?
Please try to compare Diamond's GPS next to an N95, and post the results on accuracy and lag (I have done so!).
Finally, I would agree with "liamhere"'s statement of "P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.", but I would like to add:
Make sure it's NOT an N series... and don't buy it (actually never buy ANYTHING expensive)from somewhere so far away, unless is online, so FedEx, DHL or whoever, can come to the rescue
liamhere said:
just for the record,
my comment was for the thread starter and not aimed at you.
note to self....must use quote more
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, got this wrong.
If most people are happy with their diamond and doesn't encounter any of the known problems its fine and nice. Personaly I really start to get a little bit angry about myself, to have spent so much money for it.
I've bought this device not for the phone-functionality but as a pda and this was a bad bad decission. Not only because of flaws I was not aware of when I've bought it but because of limitations I knew of. I was only to impatient to wait for other models and do enough research.
I don't think HTC will spent many resources on bugfixing for example the gps-lag, cause their are so many phones of them in development and they have allready made their deal with the diamond.
So I return to my beloved Loox and use the diamond really only as a phone, better than nothing.
After over one year of use I just wanted to write few lines about my impression of this PDA.
I travel a lot and I thought that a PDA could be helpful to keep in touch and do the IT chores while on the go. I was very wrong and I regret having bought the damn thing. The device tries to do many things but none of them well. In retrospective it sounded too good to be true.
At the beginning I did make a point of using it to its best potential but after a while I got so tired and annoyed with it that I have used it mostly like just any other phone.
I thought I would give myself some time to get accustomed to the complexity of the device before jumping to conclusions.
Over one year later and I still find it incredibly cumbersome and totally user unfriendly. The guys at HTC should go to Apple to get a crush course in making something user friendly.
Here are just a few things. The list is way longer but I would have to go back and try most functions to recall all the flaws.
- It's super slow. I am no super fast teenage geek but I am always waiting for the stupid thing to react to any command I give. It is very annoying and it's like stepping back to the time of the 286 PCs. The speed is archaic.
- The buttons controls are very difficult to feel with the touch and are very cumbersome to operate. Especially the side ones. I am sure that even blind people would have problems using them.
- Windows mobile is as bad as Microsoft gets. It's slow, counter intuitive, user unfriendly. Early Vista at the power of ten!
- Window media player is a joke. I have been using the PDA to listen to music in the car and it's a miracle I have not crashed while trying to select some music yet.
- The touch screen is also very bad and difficult to use. A lot of the commands are way too small for a man's finger. It is very difficult to select something on first attempt.
- To open a running program is difficult. One has to press the top right menu and than select what is running by touch only. The bar is about 4 mm high and it's very difficult to select using one hand. One cannot select by using the scroll bar and button.
- During phone calls the screen goes out quickly and to get it back one has to look for the hidden button on the side, very bad.
- Voice recognition sucks. Since the controls are so bad I now use the voice recognition most times. It's rare that the damn machine get it right on first attempt. Repeating the name twice helps but not always. I end up having to raise the tone as if I was yelling. Very embarrassing in public.
- The GPS take a long time to get the satellites even when the data has been updated.
- Active sync is a disaster. The guy that design it should be shot. I have given up on it altogether. I had to buy small software to access the data in the PDA and memory card.
Active sync could just not do the most elementary operation in a simple and straightforward way.
- The booting upon starting is the longest I have ever seen. Switching it off is also a chore
The list goes on but I am getting annoyed just to think about it all. This is the first and last product I’ll ever buy from HTC. Unless you are a geek that gets pleasure messing with IT devices do not buy it. Its use will take an unhealthy amount of your time. It will not help your life, it will waste a lot of your time and annoy you in the process.
Stay away from it!
My phone works perfect, it is a delight to use, does everything you mentioned above, great to reasonably well. It is fast, user friendly and I can't wait until I can upgrade to the TP II
My advice to you, since you are clueless, get the ipod that makes phone calls, it is built and over marketed especially for clueless people.
Agreed with denco7,
My HTC Kaiser (TyTn II) is also working fine. It is a great QVGA 2.8" phone!
ActiveSync works and simply works, I have never got any issue like you described.
GPS works, although TT7 is slower than TT6, but thats TT problem, not the phone.
I found Opera Mini works briliant with the D-Pad, which is much better than D-Pad-less phone. You know, press button to zoom, back to unzoom, scroll with D-Pad ... all one handed.
Screen goes out during call? Get a clue You knew this website, it should be the best resource.
My suggestion, dont use PDA Because it might be too complicated for you.
I like my TyTN II.
Maybe some of the things you think missed, you could configure them another way to get the most of the device. I think I'll never finish to get more and more from it. And I exhausted a P4350 before changing to the Kaiser.
denco7 said:
My phone works perfect, it is a delight to use, does everything you mentioned above, great to reasonably well. It is fast, user friendly and I can't wait until I can upgrade to the TP II
My advice to you, since you are clueless, get the ipod that makes phone calls, it is built and over marketed especially for clueless people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The PDA was also used by a friend of mine who is a blackberry user and talented software developer with many years of experience in IT. He did notice the same things and at times the thing did drive him crazy too.
My friend is also a guy that has switched to Linux long time ago. I have been too lazy and suffered in silence with MS crap but hopefully I will find the time to invest in changing for the better.
My friend impressions made me realize that I am not clueless as you say. In fact being a marine engineer I have dealt with equipment of all sorts for many years.
The PDA is designed by geeks for geeks. It is not a product for normal people. Anybody that buys this device has to spend many, many hours tying to sort it out and make it work better. I did that at the beginning and downloaded many fixes and upgrades. The very existance of this website and the number of people that use it is an indication that this PDA is not a product you switch on and just use. Very far from it.
I think you are like many people that after spending all that money don't want to admit that they got a lemon. The fact that you want to upgrade is a clear indication that you are not that satisfied with the gadget.
Just pick it up and slide the keyboard slightly. It takes 4.8 sec for the display to go from vertical to horizontal and back. If that is fast then you must be very slow.
Cheers
Yeah I also suggest you get an iphone. It's for people just like you.
No customization and power-user options, but your grandma can figure out the basic PDA functions.
TytnII has been great for me.
This is a negative and boring thread from the op! With some effort you can do a lot with the tytn2 as well as the tytn1! Very good devices!
I very much enjoy my Kaiser. I had some of the problems the OP had when I was running the AT&T stock ROM (with bloatware), but all that changed when I started using custom ROMs. The Kaiser is actually a very capable device, the only reason it underperforms is because it's hardware isn't fully taken advantage of (but even that's improving now). Once I flash a ROM and spend a whole 10 minutes customizing the device to how I like it, it runs like a dream.
OP: As the others have said in this thread, if you aren't willing to tweak the device, and customize the living crap out of it in order to get a faster Kaiser, maybe a feature phone or iPhone would be more suitable for you.
Dave
PS: (I have a 286, and it runs fine!)
I have a tytn, tytnII, titan, touch pro and a fuze. I must admit that every one of these devices were less than spectacular in the as-shipped form from the service provider. Thats why I found this site so I could make them all perform up to their hype.
Every one of them, thanks to the wonderful developers here, will outperform an iphown now. I have had very little problems like the OP described that were not simply fixed by changing a setting here or there. I like my tilt better than any of the others I have had (except the fuze.)
My 8525 (TyTn) works great and it has less power than the TyTnII. You can not get the most out of the phone unless you get rid of the stock OS. That's why XDA Devs rocks. Once the stock OS is gone - the phones rock!
mikechannon said:
This is the Kaiser forum. A forum dedicated to supporting Kaiser owners and providing answers to specific problems.
I'm sure you can see that this is not a supportive thread for TyTn II owners.
I'm not actually sure that expressing views about strongly disliking HTC and WM is a wise idea on a website dedicated to both those things.
However, and lest I be accused of wielding evil Moderator censorship powers, I will move this thread to off-topic. There it will take up its place accumulating wise and sensible contributions to the debate.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Mike,
It's not about being supportive or not. It's about giving a broad range of perspective so if tomorrow somebody wants to buy the device they can search for information and have a better idea of what they are getting into.
Unfortunately at the time I bought mine the information available was somehow biased towards people who think that is ok to spend 750 $ for a gadget that right away needs all sorts of non OEM twicks and upgrades to perform close to its marketing claims.
In any sector or product if one buys at the very top end of the price range should expect to end up with something that works well right away.
The TY TN II does not. HTC is a company with great potential but it should take a lot longer before releasing a product such this.
I belive that censorship does not help the people behind this site that are happy with the product either. My post is not off topic. They are first hand comments on the device from somebody that owns one, just like anybody else here.
Because of lack of unbiased information many people like me or even less prepared to mess with the device will buy it and up here nagging everyone else for help. Even for the silliest problems.
Let's be clear. This is a very niche product, HTC marketing pitch is misleading. It is not a piece of consumer goods suitable for the majority of people. It has to become a pet project for the buyer otherwise will not delivery to it's full potential.
I would suggest you put this thread in a very accessible location.
I am sorry if have hurt any TY TN II lovers
I suspect that a lot of people here see the device like their own baby.
Cheers
gogol said:
Agreed with denco7,
My HTC Kaiser (TyTn II) is also working fine. It is a great QVGA 2.8" phone!
ActiveSync works and simply works, I have never got any issue like you described.
GPS works, although TT7 is slower than TT6, but thats TT problem, not the phone.
I found Opera Mini works briliant with the D-Pad, which is much better than D-Pad-less phone. You know, press button to zoom, back to unzoom, scroll with D-Pad ... all one handed.
Screen goes out during call? Get a clue You knew this website, it should be the best resource.
My suggestion, dont use PDA Because it might be too complicated for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want to get this thread to go on and on. The purpose of my post is to just offer an alternative perspective on the PDA. Without it, anybody that stumbles on this site may be lead to think that it is a great PDA. Indeed it is for people that are willing, knowledgeable and happy to mess with it. I don't think that the majority of people fit that category.
I believe that most people when they spend top dollars expect to buy a piece of equipment that works at its best right out of the box. After all PDAs and many other gadgets should make life easier not more complicated. That is something often forgotten.
Your appreciation of Active Sync sounds very odd to my engineering mind always appreciating things that work in a simple and logic manner. I'll comment on this one because is one of my "favorite" about the device and MS.
How can Active Sync be good if you have to install it in every computer you have to exchange data with (actually you can only install it on 2 PCs only!!). That to me is totally counter intuitive, user unfriendly and simply stupid. I should be able to roam the world and exchange data with any PC and Macs by just plugging in without having to install anything. That's what happens with most other gadgets cameras etc. How is it possible that a 750 $ device cannot do such elementary thing out of the box. It's simply unbelievable and as I said very odd to see that there are so many people that are totally fine with it and actually like the feature.
The TY TN II and any top end PDAs also cater to people like me that travel extensively and to different countries. How such elementary need to exchange data in a simple way can be overseen???
If I had know that such basic feature was not available I would never have bought the thing. The problem is that this any many other points about the device are some kind of dirty secrets that are not been told and were not available when I was about to buy the device.
Luckily I found Softick Card Export and solved the problem of accessing the PDA with any computer as if it was an external hard drive. I recommend it.
But again, after I spent 750 $ I should not have to buy and install non OEM software to download a file to a friend computer.
Come on guys, MS does not even pay you! You are paying them!
mikechannon said:
Well yes in the interests of allowing different points of view, the thread has been kept, we are all entitled to a reasoned point of view.
However IMHO it is off-topic in the sense that keeping it in the TyTn II forum which is specifically to provide help for those who already have a TyTn II would be inappropriate. I did consider the General forum, but againthat is for those who already own an HTC phone and are seeking support perhaps for Windows Mobile issues.
So by elimination if nothing else "off-topic" was the choice. Those searching the likes of Google will still find it regardless of the forum it's in.
I still have my doubts that this is appropriate as a forum to choose for such a review/feedback because it can encourage flaming type posts. I'm sure you know what I mean - would you go to a Rolls Royce owners site to express your views about why they are not good cars? Maybe you would, but I think it would be better to choose a site that reviews different brands, rather than telling folk who already own the product that you think what they have is no good. I doubt folk trying to choose a product would consider a dedicated site to be an unbiased place to gather reliable reviews.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mike,
I happen to be one of those Rolls Royce owners (I wish!) that's why I think I should have a say on this site. My views are counter current that's all. I don't feel undermined here despite being a totally "visible minority". If people were to get inflamed about it then there is always the almighty moderator that should straighten things out.
I still think my post does not belong to the off topic section because I think the view of somebody like myself can be beneficial to the majority here. I know that this could be difficult to acknowledge for somebody.
On the wake of the recent purchase and proud of my shiny new device, in the first 6 months of ownership of the Ty TN II I was like most other people here, reading, downloading, twicking. After a while I realized that what I was doing was going against the very reason I bought the device in the first place which was make my life easier and make me save time.
At that point and tired of the constant work that the machine demanded I gave up on it. I bought a new laptop and used the PDA like a phone and navigator only.
If I had found posts like mine before I would have made my natural progression earlier and I would have saved myself a lot of time and headaches.
I am sure there are other people in that position and they should be able to benefit from opinions like mine without having to Google them. To the hard core PDArers it should make no difference. I understand there is a pleasure in molding a machine to you own specification. I respect that; years ago I would have kept on doing it.
I hope you understand my plea and thanks for your work. I and many others did benefit from this great site.
Unfortunately I don't think that I can ethically contribute to the HTC or MS cause in a positive way. The fact that they created the need for a site like this is totally unacceptable.
I believe that it is wrong to offer volunteer work to greedy corporations that totally don't give a damn about their customer base. HTC and MS are clear examples.
I wish the talented work of people like XDA-developers will go towards developing software and service for no profit organizations and not to patch up the shortcomings and disservice of these corporations.
Bill Gates has become a philanthropist to wash his sins. I hope his example will be followed by all the other big fish in the corporate world.
Cheers
olliric said:
I don't want to get this thread to go on and on. The purpose of my post is to just offer an alternative perspective on the PDA. Without it, anybody that stumbles on this site may be lead to think that it is a great PDA. Indeed it is for people that are willing, knowledgeable and happy to mess with it. I don't think that the majority of people fit that category.
I believe that most people when they spend top dollars expect to buy a piece of equipment that works at its best right out of the box. After all PDAs and many other gadgets should make life easier not more complicated. That is something often forgotten.
Your appreciation of Active Sync sounds very odd to my engineering mind always appreciating things that work in a simple and logic manner. I'll comment on this one because is one of my "favorite" about the device and MS.
How can Active Sync be good if you have to install it in every computer you have to exchange data with (actually you can only install it on 2 PCs only!!). That to me is totally counter intuitive, user unfriendly and simply stupid. I should be able to roam the world and exchange data with any PC and Macs by just plugging in without having to install anything. That's what happens with most other gadgets cameras etc. How is it possible that a 750 $ device cannot do such elementary thing out of the box. It's simply unbelievable and as I said very odd to see that there are so many people that are totally fine with it and actually like the feature.
The TY TN II and any top end PDAs also cater to people like me that travel extensively and to different countries. How such elementary need to exchange data in a simple way can be overseen???
If I had know that such basic feature was not available I would never have bought the thing. The problem is that this any many other points about the device are some kind of dirty secrets that are not been told and were not available when I was about to buy the device.
Luckily I found Softick Card Export and solved the problem of accessing the PDA with any computer as if it was an external hard drive. I recommend it.
But again, after I spent 750 $ I should not have to buy and install non OEM software to download a file to a friend computer.
Come on guys, MS does not even pay you! You are paying them!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, you're saying that with any other phone you can just connect it to a PC and transfer all the data on the fly? Well, with nokias you can't, you have to install the huge nokia pc suite. At least active sync is only a few megs, so even with a slow connection you can still get it fast. And, i still think active sync is the best or at least the simplest way to synchronize contacts / appointments / notes and emails.
If you want to exchange files i would advice to forget active sync, use a micro sd card reader, it's much simpler and faster.
About your first post, i understand your frustration, but everyone here will tell you, including me, that any windows mobile device is way more powerfull than any nokia, iphone or blackberry. But even with those you still have to know how to use them.
jaugusto said:
So, you're saying that with any other phone you can just connect it to a PC and transfer all the data on the fly? Well, with nokias you can't, you have to install the huge nokia pc suite. At least active sync is only a few megs, so even with a slow connection you can still get it fast. And, i still think active sync is the best or at least the simplest way to synchronize contacts / appointments / notes and emails.
If you want to exchange files i would advice to forget active sync, use a micro sd card reader, it's much simpler and faster.
About your first post, i understand your frustration, but everyone here will tell you, including me, that any windows mobile device is way more powerfull than any nokia, iphone or blackberry. But even with those you still have to know how to use them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In this day and age am I too demanding to expect to be able to read and exchange data with my PDA and any computer? The fact that the very little Softick card export software does it very easily shows that I am not asking much. There are no technological hurdles whatsoever. Why having to complicate things, switching off the device, pulling cards on and off, maybe damaging something in the process.
It is one of the features I needed right away and I don't think I am alone there. It should not take a great deal of imagination or creativity to figure this out. What are the HTC or MS designers been thinking?
I just don't see any good reasons for the lack of such basic features. The only reason I see is corporate greed that calls for gadgets and software that don't quite work so people keep on buying new ones.
We are a bunch of consumer cows being milked, I am afraid that's the sad reality.
The fact the the potential of a MS based PDA is greater than the competition does not make me feel any better. However, thanks for trying to help and for the kind words
olliric said:
In this day and age am I too demanding to expect to be able to read and exchange data with my PDA and any computer? The fact that the very little Softick card export software does it very easily shows that I am not asking much. There are no technological hurdles whatsoever. Why having to complicate things, switching off the device, pulling cards on and off, maybe damaging something in the process.
It is one of the features I needed right away and I don't think I am alone there. It should not take a great deal of imagination or creativity to figure this out. What are the HTC or MS designers been thinking?
I just don't see any good reasons for the lack of such basic features. The only reason I see is corporate greed that calls for gadgets and software that don't quite work so people keep on buying new ones.
We are a bunch of consumer cows being milked, I am afraid that's the sad reality.
The fact the the potential of a MS based PDA is greater than the competition does not make me feel any better. However, thanks for trying to help and for the kind words
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I prefer to think that technology is being developed, rather than big companies are just "milking us". Every new product is an evolution from something done before, not only with technology, but with everything manufactured in the capitalist markets we live in.
Basically, i think we have two choices: ware out our equipment untill we really need a new one (in case of a mobile phone for me i would say that it's about 3 years), or sell our semi-new equipment and buy a new one every year or so. I usually choose the first one, but i'm not always sure that it is the cheapest.
About speed, I know that the tytn II's are far from being the best phone HTC made, heck, my old magician (qtek s110) was way faster. But it didn't have to deal with gps, wifi, 3G, HSDPA, hardware keyboard, etc. They're only three years apart from each other, and look at the differences!
I actually agree with you that the kaiser is slow for a 2007 PDA, but it can do a lot. So, like everyone else in this forum, i've been reading, and trying, and failing, and trying again. The best Rom i've tried is shifu's v8, i do like it a lot. And the advantage of WM is that you can really do everything you want to change the look and the way you interact with your phone, and there are thousands of programs to do whatever you need your phone to do.
There's so many software out there, that it is hard to get to the best one for you. Some prefer SPB Mobile Shell3, i prefer Manila 2D. There's also the new Titanium in WM 6.5, PointUI, Throttle Launcher.... I compare this situation to the photography industry: there are hundreds of camera models, most of them give very similar image quality for the same price, but if you visit photography forums you'll find people that just can't get used to a certain model of a certain brand, and normally for reasons you wouldn't even think of.
That doesn't turn that model into a lemon, but usually makes it more special to the ones that actually like it.
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Just trying to help, as i don't consider myself a geek, but i do prefer windows mobile over symbian.
jaugusto said:
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually yes the BBs do USB File transfer when plugged into a PC with nothing extra installed. You get prompted on the device to enable Mass Storage Mode.
jaugusto said:
I prefer to think that technology is being developed, rather than big companies are just "milking us". Every new product is an evolution from something done before, not only with technology, but with everything manufactured in the capitalist markets we live in.
Basically, i think we have two choices: ware out our equipment untill we really need a new one (in case of a mobile phone for me i would say that it's about 3 years), or sell our semi-new equipment and buy a new one every year or so. I usually choose the first one, but i'm not always sure that it is the cheapest.
About speed, I know that the tytn II's are far from being the best phone HTC made, heck, my old magician (qtek s110) was way faster. But it didn't have to deal with gps, wifi, 3G, HSDPA, hardware keyboard, etc. They're only three years apart from each other, and look at the differences!
I actually agree with you that the kaiser is slow for a 2007 PDA, but it can do a lot. So, like everyone else in this forum, i've been reading, and trying, and failing, and trying again. The best Rom i've tried is shifu's v8, i do like it a lot. And the advantage of WM is that you can really do everything you want to change the look and the way you interact with your phone, and there are thousands of programs to do whatever you need your phone to do.
There's so many software out there, that it is hard to get to the best one for you. Some prefer SPB Mobile Shell3, i prefer Manila 2D. There's also the new Titanium in WM 6.5, PointUI, Throttle Launcher.... I compare this situation to the photography industry: there are hundreds of camera models, most of them give very similar image quality for the same price, but if you visit photography forums you'll find people that just can't get used to a certain model of a certain brand, and normally for reasons you wouldn't even think of.
That doesn't turn that model into a lemon, but usually makes it more special to the ones that actually like it.
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Just trying to help, as i don't consider myself a geek, but i do prefer windows mobile over symbian.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think corporations do plan to make every gadget quickly outdated. Hardware and software companies help each other in that regard. Software is designed to require more and more computing power even though is often not necessary. We could be a lot farther ahead after 20 years of consumer computers. MS is probably the main cause of this troubled development and we are still stuck with it. Window mobile may be better than others but is still very far from being good. That was also the idea of a MS project manager friend of mine who eventually left Seattle and MS. I remember venting my frustration with him and he had no excuse to offer.
I did do ROM upgrades early on but then I had to remove them after developing other problems. If one day I run into somebody that will do it for me I may give them another try. I just had it with this PDA I don't to waste anymore time.
I have a lot of other things in my life and I just don't want to spend time on something that should save me time. It just does not make any sense to me.
When this PDA will crap out I'll be very careful of what I may buy. I think I have learned the lesson. The only thing that I have appreciated is the navigator which is neither HTC or MS. I travel a lot so I keep the bastard only for that. I have to bear the bulk and weight of it for navigation and the occasional email.
I don't know if there are PDAs that can be used like a USB pen. I really hope so. It is such a simple thing, if there aren't any then it's really bad out there.
Thanks for your help
Cheers
I agree with everything you posted originally. Although, it's not HTC's fault as much as it is Microsoft's. I happen to love the G1
I've had a tilt for a year now and, while flashing ROMs does make it bearable, Windows Mobile just sucks in general imo.
mbarvian said:
I agree with everything you posted originally. Although, it's not HTC's fault as much as it is Microsoft's. I happen to love the G1
I've had a tilt for a year now and, while flashing ROMs does make it bearable, Windows Mobile just sucks in general imo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great to hear that I am not the only unhappy here. Actually I believe there are a lot more but they don't want to admit it.
So you guys de-lurk yourself and get it off your chest. You'll feel better. After all we just bought the PDA, we did not do anything terrible. There wasn't much choice anyway. If I made it or the OS then I would feel really bad about myself.
Cheers
Hi all,
one of the major reasons that convinced me to buy a xperia x1 was the fact that it was a supported device on xda-devs. Being that i previously was a owner of a Prophet and being that the quality of the roms for Prophet on this forum "was" (don't know how it is now) "sublime", support on xda-dev has become a requirement for me to buy a phone.
The fact that after Prophet i bought a XDA Flame proved to me that Hardware alone (Flame had the best hardware of that time) is nothing without functioning software. The ROM of the Flame was so poorly made that the phone was utterly useless.
In comes the XPERIA. Great hardware, great stock software (literally everything works). My only complaint about this device is the case, which is poorly designed (plastic and metal are not supposed to be used to support the same amount of stress due to their completely different structures -> therefore, cracks appear).
Unfortunately, although i admit that it is a much more complex device than the Prophet, i must say that the quality of the custom ROMS for Xperia is extremely LOW. MUCH, much lower than the stock roms. I don't care if my xperia can get into orbit (very fast) if i can't get any oxygen there (basic functions not working).
I usually am against people that complain about "free" software (these days, rom builders are more motivated by donations than by passion though). In this case (the roms for xperia) i must make an exception: the ROMS are way too buggy.
I admit, i haven't tested all of them (anybody have any sugestions ?) but i have tested quite a few.
I'm disappointed that i can't say to somebody that complains about some of these roms that he is wrong and that they are actually quite good
have you tested smabergs rom?
Itje's Touch-IT 10.4 is the best one to date.
I have tried both, and like the previous posts they are both good
Currently using 6.5
incearca asta
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=505214
pentru mine e una dintre cele mai bune.
XPERIA Cooked ROM quality
Ardealul, you speak me from the heart.
I have tested all ROMs on this page dated June and later and in everyone I got frustrated after either some minutes or days of usage. Unfortunately, the speed of the ROM being released tells in most cases also about their quality. Most of them are buggy and even after several update releases supposedly simple bugs like missing links (e.g. settings) are not resolved. I was thinking even to go back to the slow stock ROM.
After all, I am back to Smarberg Touch X. Fast, stable and very reliable.
I have the greatest respects for all developers and cannot imagine how much of their time they sacrifice to develop ROMs. However, pls take your time and release only stable and less buggy ROMs.
I know how you feel. This isn't to belittle the cooks, or anything like that. I strongly admire the work they've done, the effort they're putting in, and the new discoveries that they're making so that all of us can have better phones, but I do feel let down by the ROMs coming out. I mean, I keep hearing that X rom is super-fast, but then try it, and it's horribly slow, or it's got irritating bugs in it. And then there's the ROMs that are pretty muich identical to each other, with WinMo 6.5 and TF3D. I really hate TF3D. It's swish, but it's just so damned slow and cluttersome. Why can't all mod'ers make it an optional UC component?
What I want in a ROM is a simple OS that launches apps as quickly and efficiently as possible, and that makes them run their absolute best. Everyone, it seems, is focusing instead on making the OS look as swish as possible, at the expense of app performance.
For me, Jack's Lite 3.1 might be my keeper, at least until R4A comes out and he (or someone else) makes something lighter and faster. It's still a little chubbier than I'd like (Java, Search, SIM Manager, the games, who needs 'em?), and I guess it's missing some of the newfound optimisations (kudos again to the investigative talents of the cooks), but it does what I want, and quickly. I just think it's a shame that nothing's been released in the last four months since it came out that's faster.
Or, is there?
Nice one Guys,
It doesnt matter how much you say 'i dont want to belittle the cooks' because you just have by creating this thread and others for agreeing. Although you are all entitled to your thoughts and opinions, i think its extremely bad form to complain in such a way.
So where are the quality ROM's that you have created?...............exactly
Try it yourself before you pass judgement on someone elses time and effort, this community is becoming tired of the minority ruining it for the majority. Countless good cooks have left for us for less (maybe this is why you arent seeing the ROM's you desire)
I'm sure i speak for all the cooks out there when i say if you dont like their efforts then go back to stock ROM's or have a go yourself and see how you feel when someone comes along and makes light of the time and effort that you have put in.
My intention is not to come across agressively but as i say it doesnt take much to piss someone off and then we lose them and their ROM's forever.
Regards,
Creamy-Goodness
creamy said:
Nice one Guys,
It doesnt matter how much you say 'i dont want to belittle the cooks' because you just have by creating this thread and others for agreeing. Although you are all entitled to your thoughts and opinions, i think its extremely bad form to complain in such a way.
So where are the quality ROM's that you have created?...............exactly
Try it yourself before you pass judgement on someone elses time and effort, this community is becoming tired of the minority ruining it for the majority. Countless good cooks have left for us for less (maybe this is why you arent seeing the ROM's you desire)
I'm sure i speak for all the cooks out there when i say if you dont like their efforts then go back to stock ROM's or have a go yourself and see how you feel when someone comes along and makes light of the time and effort that you have put in.
My intention is not to come across agressively but as i say it doesnt take much to piss someone off and then we lose them and their ROM's forever.
Regards,
Creamy-Goodness
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't want to go into the details of the logical inference concept, but in short.... i don't agree with your point of view.
All I can say you people who complain about the quality of the roms need to show a little respect to the cooks. They do all this in their spare time and aren't paid (and donations don't pay the bills). If you don't like a rom, fine, but keep your opinion to yourself. If you don't have anything constructive to say shut up.
ardealul said:
i don't want to go into the details of the logical inference concept, but in short.... i don't agree with your point of view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please dont, i'm sure my inferior intellect couldnt survive the fallout.
Again you are entitled to your opinion but if you read other threads eg: smabergs you will see that many do.
How many roms have you all (not creamy who is correct in what he says) made yourselves? Come on lets see how fast and so much better your roms are. I meen for Christ sake, Smaberg is making them without even having an X1 at the moment! The way i see it is this: The cooks do this in their spare time for free (some get donations, but prob not much) so that we can make our devices better and more enjoyable. At no point are you made to try them, made to keep them, made to come on here with pointless put downs.
If you dont like them, dont use them. But most of all dont slag off the cooks that are trying to make our devices better.
you simply don't have the RIGHTS to complain in a way like this!i don't see any constructive critisism in this thread, just lame complaints - so what's your point?! as others said before: you don't have to use these roms.
flash back to stock-rom and complain to SE about it's bugs - THAT'S what you've paid for, nothing more. certainly not for the free (!) modified roms from the cooks. so please, either get constructive or get a hobby to release your issues.
ps: someone said itje's 10.4 is best - i'd rather recommend 10.2. with 3 bugfixes applied it's still the fastest AND most stable rom. but you're searching for a light rom anyway - should be fairly easy compaired to cooking manila in.
again: remember what you've paid for and where you can DEMAND such things.
cjm1979 said:
How many roms have you all (not creamy who is correct in what he says) made yourselves? Come on lets see how fast and so much better your roms are. I meen for Christ sake, Smaberg is making them without even having an X1 at the moment! The way i see it is this: The cooks do this in their spare time for free (some get donations, but prob not much) so that we can make our devices better and more enjoyable. At no point are you made to try them, made to keep them, made to come on here with pointless put downs.
If you dont like them, dont use them. But most of all dont slag off the cooks that are trying to make our devices better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i do software integration for a living, which means that 80% of my time i test software.
If a developer that is supposed to provide me with support can't take criticism on a daily basis (criticism is also referred to as a bug in software development) i literally walk all over him and his team. Bugs are a normal byproduct of development and only if they are found (by people like me) and fixed by them (the developers - rom cooks), can a software be considered stable.
Everyone (and especially rom cooks), pls stop taking criticism negatively. You should be proud of the result of your work and not because some take the wrong approach and kiss your ass all the time. If one or two complain, they are aberrations and can be ignored. If however they represent 20 - 30 % of the population, then there really might be a problem.
In my opinion, people that contradict critics just because they criticize are a lot more of a problem for a community than the critics ever will be.
Always remember: a good piece of software is only good if it already fixed hundreds of bugs found in previous versions. And even that one, compared to future ones, will be considered "a piece of crap".
p.s.: nature tends to filter weaklings out of the gene pool of species
ardealul said:
i do software integration for a living, which means that 80% of my time i test software.
If a developer that is supposed to provide me with support can't take criticism on a daily basis (criticism is also referred to as a bug in software development) i literally walk all over him and his team.
p.s.: nature tends to filter weaklings out of the gene pool of species
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the cooks are supposed to provide you with the roms? Are your "teams" paid to do it for their living? If your a software genius, why dont you show off your skills and cook a rom for us to pick through and test?
ps: I take it nature must of missed you somehow?
IMO,if you really want a nice rom, you could actually approach them in a nice way so that they can improve that bug in their next release rather than creating a thread that tells them that their work are full of bugs... in that way we could help the cooks in developing a working rom..
I too have recently come from the Prophet scene, where I tried a few ROMs, and all provided much more speed and stability compared to the official ROM.
I must confess I have only tried smaberg's and itje's ROMs (the numbering convention implies enormous amounts of time invested in them). I am currently using itje's 10.4 ROM (10.31 was indeed slow) - and this is an excellent ROM. I would recommend it. Some people have encountered certain problems, but most (muyself included) haven't.
However this is not a commercial activity (a commercial software company -even HTC will have a similar structure) has PAID developers, PAID internal betatesters etc - and we all know the outcome
This is a community, unfortunately the community spirit is under pressure at the moment - we all need to actively contribute to improve things we consider necessary. the ,000s of posts on the ROM threads demonstrate there is massive feedback, and response from the cooks.
I hear what you're saying, but a) a cooked ROM will be superior to the stock one, and b) if you find bugs, communicate them, I am sure they will be looked at and resolved - much faster than in a commercial software company!
ardealul said:
i do software integration for a living, which means that 80% of my time i test software.
If a developer that is supposed to provide me with support can't take criticism on a daily basis (criticism is also referred to as a bug in software development) i literally walk all over him and his team. Bugs are a normal byproduct of development and only if they are found (by people like me) and fixed by them (the developers - rom cooks), can a software be considered stable.
Everyone (and especially rom cooks), pls stop taking criticism negatively. You should be proud of the result of your work and not because some take the wrong approach and kiss your ass all the time. If one or two complain, they are aberrations and can be ignored. If however they represent 20 - 30 % of the population, then there really might be a problem.
In my opinion, people that contradict critics just because they criticize are a lot more of a problem for a community than the critics ever will be.
Always remember: a good piece of software is only good if it already fixed hundreds of bugs found in previous versions. And even that one, compared to future ones, will be considered "a piece of crap".
p.s.: nature tends to filter weaklings out of the gene pool of species
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
out of interest and because i've got some spare time today, i've been skimming through your last posts. most of the time you've "reported bugs" that have been announced many times before in the corresponding.
that's not bug-reporting or critisism in a good way, that's just complaining and demanding. and obviously you don't bother to search for the fixes. which is the reason of me being so "direct" to you: posts like these fill up the threads and make it nearly impossible to find answers for those who search. all you get are so-called "bug-reports". you say you're "in the business" - then you should know how helpful these reports really are... (for starters: where are the real bugs in your first post? you just complain about the "system".)
the fact that this isn't an inc. where you can demand such things from has already been adressed. even IF you have donated to a cook - why do you think you can demand something like what you did?
hope you don't take this as a personal attack too much. i'm simply trying to point out: you're at the wrong place with this, write a letter to SE or cook a rom yourself.
well. there is no such thing as a perfect rom. bugs will take place.
Even in a paid for environment like Microsoft in which you pay loads of money for software and teams are dedicated for troubleshooting. Things still might go wrong.
It's human to make a mistake. The cookers try to fix the most prominent ones, but minor bugs might get missed.
In addition, it seems that ROMs behave differently on different X1s making things a tad unpredictable.
My advice to the disappointed: Be patient. Perhaps the next release will be better. INFORM about the bugs. do not DEMAND.
My advice to the cookers: Have a big heart. Enjoy the learning experience. Try your best. not for us. but for you.
solution...... don't like the custom rom - stick to the original rom, don't like that? change the phone. i don't remember xda chef ever commit that they will provide a better rom for users. so if you don't like it just sell the phone or you can always ask sony ericsson to give you the rom you always wanted. just stop creating such a negative tread and let us enjoy custom roms and our xperia
EDIT: I changed my mind, if someone provides me a working iphone ROM for the touch pro 2, I'll give you $1000. If you want details of what I want, I'll give them but it would require the ability to sync with itunes, all sprint cdma radios to work, wifi, bluetooth, 3g, usb, internet tethering, text messaging, basically, a 99% working ROM. I know the money isn't much but that's about how much an iphone would be worth to me.
please pass this on to your favorite developer/programmer
It seems like there are many different ROM's, or OS's that can be modified to run on these tiny little computers. So why not the apple iphone OS? Seems like hardware wise we would be in heaven with such a great keyboard to the most popular and succesful phone ever. Have any of the talented programmers here attempted it? i would easily pay $50 ore even more for it, as I'm sure many, many other people would. i am certain that there is a programmer out there with access to the iphone source code and can write in the drivers for the hardware. i realize it would be illegal and copyright infrigement but the person that could do it would be infamous and be offered a sweet, cushy programming job at a huge corporation. which of you programmers are currently in a job they don't like or even unemployed? this would be your opportunity to cross the invisible barrier and make double, triple, or even 100X your current salary. think about it.
PS-other than the amazing talents that you would be displaying by doing this, even if you don't become famous, I'm still going to show you how to make money off this. Immediately before releasing the program to the public, get as much money as you can to buy, borrow, cheat, steal, or using whatever means necessary and get every single touch pro 2 phone you can find. i literally mean, 10000+ of them if possible. As soon as the program is released, the word will get out, and within weeks the cost of getting a touch pro 2 on the black market will be upwards of $600-$800, maybe even more. an iphone with a keyboard...
ChristopherJLee said:
please pass this on to your favorite developer/programmer
It seems like there are many different ROM's, or OS's that can be modified to run on these tiny little computers. So why not the apple iphone OS? Seems like hardware wise we would be in heaven with such a great keyboard to the most popular and succesful phone ever. Have any of the talented programmers here attempted it? i would easily pay $50 ore even more for it, as I'm sure many, many other people would. i am certain that there is a programmer out there with access to the iphone source code and can write in the drivers for the hardware. i realize it would be illegal and copyright infrigement but the person that could do it would be infamous and be offered a sweet, cushy programming job at a huge corporation. which of you programmers are currently in a job they don't like or even unemployed? this would be your opportunity to cross the invisible barrier and make double, triple, or even 100X your current salary. think about it.
PS-other than the amazing talents that you would be displaying by doing this, even if you don't become famous, I'm still going to show you how to make money off this. Immediately before releasing the program to the public, get as much money as you can to buy, borrow, cheat, steal, or using whatever means necessary and get every single touch pro 2 phone you can find. i literally mean, 10000+ of them if possible. As soon as the program is released, the word will get out, and within weeks the cost of getting a touch pro 2 on the black market will be upwards of $600-$800, maybe even more. an iphone with a keyboard...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are sooooo many reasons this can't and won't happen. Where shall I start? The vastly different screen resolution? The completely different hardware which has absolutely no support? The bootloader? Or maybe the fact it's closed source, and thus can't easily (if at all) be modified to the point where it runs on our devices? (There probably isn't even a HAL, or only a minimal one at best). Maybe the fact that there would be lawsuits up the a** from Apple if this ever happened, not 6-digit salaries and job opportunities. I personally would rather see developers devoting time to creating a fully, working port of Linux than a half-a**ed iPhone OS port which doesn't boot into a GUI or even a console (if it boots at all), and doesn't even support basic elements of iPhone OS like multi-touch and synchronization. This idea has been suggested over the years quite a few times, and it's never gotten anywhere because there are so many things working against it.
I'm not necessarily against such a thing (if it were to be fully completed) but all I'm saying is that there is already a huge shortage of talented developers who can port operating systems, and we don't need to be wasting their talents and efforts on a wild goose chase of a port, such as this proposed project. Even if the port is completely finished, there are fundamental problems such as lack of multi-touch, OS updates having to be adapted each release, the issue of all apps being the wrong resolution while no scaling mechanism is built into the OS (unlike android), and many other reasons I could literally go on listing all day. Besides, your whole scenario of a port is flawed itself. I think I can safely say that nobody on this forum has access to the iPhone's full source. I think I can also safely say that the price of a black-market TP2 probably wouldn't go up that much if at all, since you can still buy them from HTC or any other retailer (often for dirt cheap with a commitment), and any black market TP2 would have to be cheap enough to be somewhat competitive. Your scenario also relies on the assumption that Apple won't throw their entire legal team at this forum and the developers responsible. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is at best a pipe-dream, and simply won't happen for a myriad of reasons. If you want the iPhone OS, buy an iPhone or get the SDK and use the emulator included, or if you want the look of the iPhone on your TP2, look at iPhone today and S2U2.
just wondering are there any iphone users who want winmo on their device
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
I'm not necessarily against such a thing (if it were to be fully completed) but all I'm saying is that there is already a huge shortage of talented developers who can port operating systems, and we don't need to be wasting their talents and efforts on a wild goose chase of a port, such as this proposed project.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree, the shortage is not from lack of talented developers who can port operating systems, it's that some of the talented developers don't have the motivation to do it. i'm hoping that my post will spur some of the ones dreaming about truly making it big
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Even if the port is completely finished, there are fundamental problems such as lack of multi-touch, OS updates having to be adapted each release, the issue of all apps being the wrong resolution while no scaling mechanism is built into the OS (unlike android), and many other reasons I could literally go on listing all day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree there would be issues but like all software, it can be modified. for example, up-scaling could run as a default for the entire system as there would be no need to have the iphone running 800 x 480, it could be the default iphone resolution
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Besides, your whole scenario of a port is flawed itself. I think I can safely say that nobody on this forum has access to the iPhone's full source. I think I can also safely say that the price of a black-market TP2 probably wouldn't go up that much if at all, since you can still buy them from HTC or any other retailer (often for dirt cheap with a commitment), and any black market TP2 would have to be cheap enough to be somewhat competitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're probably right, no one on this forum has access but someone's friend of a friend that works at apple or is a consultant does. Yes, you can buy touch pro 2's on the internet but there's a limited supply. in april of 2009 it was reported 37 million iphones/ipod touches have been sold. this is over a 3 year period. in a 2 day period 270,000 iphones were sold. are there even 270,000 touch pro 2 users? how many of us have the money and the means to end our contract and pay for an iphone? how many of us simply don't do it because of the cost and/or cons of using att or a phone with no keyboard? there aren't enough touch pro 2's in existance
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Your scenario also relies on the assumption that Apple won't throw their entire legal team at this forum and the developers responsible. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is at best a pipe-dream, and simply won't happen for a myriad of reasons. If you want the iPhone OS, buy an iPhone or get the SDK and use the emulator included, or if you want the look of the iPhone on your TP2, look at iPhone today and S2U2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that Apple would do all of this, worldwide fame and recognition of your talents. Surely someone would face the consequences than stay nameless in a basement somewhere for the rest of their life. Someone is reading this that can and will do it because it is achievable.
aZzz.bZzz said:
just wondering are there any iphone users who want winmo on their device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes please...........oh sorry i was only joking
apple don't like it.......
when people clone or try to copy there OS
they have and will come down on us like a ton of bricks
this is a reason why people don't try it.
I thought the interwebs is soo vast far and wide.
But I just cant seem to hide from these Iphone crap...
Dumb idea...
As a developer, there is no way in h*ll I would try this. First off, Apple would rain fire and brimstone down on top of you. Apple is one of the most controlling and paranoid companies on the planet. XDA would get shutdown almost immediately just for being associated with it.
Besides, I like not being a sheep. So why would I want to imitate one? Let the sheeple be happy with their device. I'll be happy with mine.
i'll happily be a sheeple
data that's relevant to you individually? why aren't any other phones doing this exact thing as well? it's been 3 years since the iphone came out, surely someone outside of apple realizes the benefits of the iphone and should be building it into wm6 or 7, and android. a phone that actually uses your current location to suggest food and things that you can enjoy that you would otherwise miss the opportunity or waste your time looking for? the games, the programs, the applications, are all built well and perform well because of the os that is used. the iphone os, interface, all of it, is genius. there are things to improve, but let someone crack it and then the rest of us will come up with improvements
I'll port this over if you can get me the iPhone OS source code. I'm thinking you'll run into trouble though, because it's not publicly available
Please read up on development before making such an outlandish request
this thread is done
as if we let it happen here we will be contacted by apple
and they don't like it when people play with there toys.
thread closed