I recently purchased a kaiser (it isn't here yet). I've been searching all over the internet for information on the Kaiser that should help with the video driver issues. Here is what I found:
The die shots of the MSM6260 and the MSM7500 look identical, which implies that the MSM7500 does not include ATI Imageon technology in the same die. I could not find a decent die shot of the MSM7200, but I suspect it is similar to the MSM6260 and the MSM7500. This means that the video acceleration hardware is a separate chip on the same PCB as the MSM7200 processor. This theory is supported by an image of a dismantled HTC Trinity and a dismantled Hermes. This also means that hacking drivers together from another functional device with similar hardware should be possible.
The question now is: Does the Kaiser include an ATI Imageon Processor? According to many PDF documents it does, but which Imageon processor? I tried to find a picture of the internals of the Kaiser and failed. I really don't want to dismantle my new Kaiser (too expensive me to replace), but perhaps somebody here with a toast Kaiser can dismantle theirs and post pictures. If we find out exactly what Imageon chip is being used we can find drivers for it (this method of finding drivers works in both Windows and Linux). It only makes sense that ATI has drivers for each of their chips, it's just a matter of us getting them.
I've attached everything I've found to this message (in the event that documents suddenly disappear again).
Also, According to this post it appears that HTC is actually working on some drivers, maybe:
http://brewforums.qualcomm.com/archive/index.php/t-17446.html
Information_1.zip
Information_2.zip
dinominant said:
This means that the video acceleration hardware is a separate chip on the same PCB as the MSM7200 processor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is NO ATI chip on kaiser. It is a well known fact from the kaiser motherboard pictures
and confirmed by HTC. Get a better phone (himalaya?) if you need hardware video acceleration
afaik its ondie inside the main proc
I've looked at the PDF (the one that mods the screen) and she did not photograph the actual IC's under the shielding like the person who dismantled the Hermes.
It doesn't make any sense that ATI would give Qualcomm their Imageon schematics so Qualcomm can fabricate a processor with on-die video acceloration hardware. What does make sense is that Qualcomm builds the MSM7200 so it can interface with an Imageon chip (this makes their processor modular, and more appealing) and HTC simply connects them with the PCB (motherboard).
If the Kaiser does not have an ATI Imageon chip on the PCB right next to the MSM7200 then it has no hardware acceleration and it will *never* perform better then the Hermes, with or without drivers. Even the Hermes had an Imageon chip. If you have pictures proving this then please post them because that would mean HTC will never release Imageon drivers.
Here you can see the MSM6260 is identical to the MSM7500, which would mean the MSM7200 is also the same.
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And here is a dismantled Hermes, with a dedicated descrete Imageon processor:
The Kaiser should have a descrete ATI Imageon chip on the same board right next to the Qualcomm MSM7200 chip. If it doesn't then there is no chance of fixing the video issues. If it does, then the first step is to figure out which Imageon chip it has.
Why would Qualcomm rebuild the same chip in 90nm after already going 65nm? That's a loss of power-efficiency, die space, etc unless they added other things on such as ram, or extra circuitry. Something is missing from in those pictures.
Here is the link to the FCC. The following is the entier site listing many PDFS.
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/...omFrame=N&application_id=740611&fcc_id='NM8KS'
And here is the link to the internal pictures of the kaiser:
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=791448&native_or_pdf=pdf
staulkor said:
Here is the link to the FCC. The following is the entier site listing many PDFS.
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/...omFrame=N&application_id=740611&fcc_id='NM8KS'
And here is the link to the internal pictures of the kaiser:
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=791448&native_or_pdf=pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Beat me to the naked pictures. I don't see a discrete ATI chip.
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=791306&native_or_pdf=pdf
edit: do see a Xilinx chip.
Possibly because of power consumption. AMD was having huge power issues on the 65nm process last year (their 90nm parts scaled/overclocked better than their 65nm parts) and I bet Qualcomm was too. These are mobile chips and power consumption would be a big concern. Then again It could just be a typo or something else altogether.
Those are the exact pictures I got from the PDF documents on the Semiconductor Insight website (I had to sign up to get some of those documents -- signing up is free).
According to this article, Qualcomm is a fabless chip producer, so perhaps they just contracted a foundry with 90nm fabs for less money & less power consumption.
Somebody be brave and crack their kaiser open!
AFAIK Q3Dimension is the "ati hardware accelerated unit"
dinominant said:
Possibly because of power consumption. AMD was having huge power issues on the 65nm process last year (their 90nm parts scaled/overclocked better than their 65nm parts) and I bet Qualcomm was too. These are mobile chips and power consumption would be a big concern. Then again It could just be a typo or something else altogether.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get it: http://www.linleygroup.com/npu/Newsletter/CE/ce060413.html
Qualcomm is slowly switching all existing designs to 65mm to conserve power and it just hasn't hit the 7x00 series yet.
I couldn't get the PDF file to work in linux so I'll post the images here:
Kaiser 100
Kiser 110
Kaiser 120
This pdf is basically definitive that the Imageon hardware is part of the MSM7x00 chip somewhere.
Should we be discouraged that there's no ATI chip in on the Kaiser board?
i think you guys miss the fact, that the MSM7xxx is a highly integrated SoC.
The graphic core should be integrated on the die itself, so there will be no discreet graphicchip visible.
Infact it could be possible that the graphic core is on board of the die, but its just physicaly disabled, just like intel does with its cpus, disableing parts of the 2nd lvl cache or even one core of its dualcores.
Theres no way you can visually identify if the graphic core works or not (well when you have a electron microscope you could. )
Hornet331 said:
i think you guys miss the fact, that the MSM7xxx is a highly integrated SoC.
The graphic core should be integrated on the die itself, so there will be no discreet graphicchip visible.
Infact it could be possible that the graphic core is on board of the die, but its just physicaly disabled, just like intel does with its cpus, disableing parts of the 2nd lvl cache or even one core of its dualcores.
Theres no way you can visually identify if the graphic core works or not (well when you have a electron microscope you could. )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Die shot of the MSM7500 is identical to the MSM6260 though and the MSM6260 does not have an integrated Imageon processor, it's a discrete chip on the motherboard. So either the MSM7xxx series has integrated Imageon technology (and so does the MSM6260 in addition the one included on the motherboard) or both require a discrete Imageon chip.
I can't see ATI handing over their Imageon schematics to Qualcomm so they can integrate it into their chips, then not use the integrated one in the MSM6260 and add an additional discrete Imageon chip and use that one instead.
It looks as though the Kaiser does not have Imageon technology at all (unless it's on the other side of that motherboard).
so, we have all been screwed
Has someone found the internal pictures of the lg ks20. If the ati part is not in the main chip there should be an extra chip in here because in the lg the acceleration works.
Or am i wrong here?
I really hope that the kaiser graphic drivers will be released if there exist such a chip...
I feel a little let down by all this
sorry but im now highly suspicious of dinominant - is he a htc imposter trying to cull the uprising for drivers from the inside by claiming its a moot request? (this is the only thread he has posted in since he has joined this forum - note post count)
gogo paranoid delusionals
p.s im fairly certain its ondie - its SoC - lots of different bits and peices all stuck together on one die - from many different companies (shock horror just imagine the potential plagarism!!!)! (before qualcomm removed the chips schematics off their webshite, there were pdf's on there clearly showing ati hardware was there - ive got a copy of the pdf's at home somewhere)
lies lies and htc spies
NuShrike said:
This pdf is basically definitive that the Imageon hardware is part of the MSM7x00 chip somewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
spot on m8 - do my eyes deceive me or does that say 'integrated ati 2d/3d hardware' - im not sure let me get my glasses...
Related
I'm pretty sure I saw that on the side of the box at an AT&T store (it was far from me behind the counter though), but I've have never heard this about this phone before. Is the performance increase over the Tytn very noticeable to this effect?
stpete111 said:
I'm pretty sure I saw that on the side of the box at an AT&T store (it was far from me behind the counter though), but I've have never heard this about this phone before. Is the performance increase over the Tytn very noticeable to this effect?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's nothing on the device, the HTC box or the Internets that leads me to believe that that's true.
I just saw a news.com story a couple of days ago (cant find the link though) about dual-core devices.
There's no noticible speed increas on the Kaiser.
Also, see this:http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=news&id=4554
s
Nope, but there are seperate CPU's the 2nd one runs the radio. Doesn't help WM6 speed, mabe it unloads it a little.
The side of the box DOES say dual core
I would scan the side of the box "Att White label reads ...400 mhz dual core processor..."but i dont need to prove it, do the research...even though it is prob. a marketing scheme!
shaharprish said:
There's nothing on the device, the HTC box or the Internets that leads me to believe that that's true.
I just saw a news.com story a couple of days ago (cant find the link though) about dual-core devices.
There's no noticible speed increas on the Kaiser.
Also, see this:http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=news&id=4554
s
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regarding speed, you say there's no noticable speed increase on the Kaiser. I'd disagree there, the first and most enduring thing I have noticed is a speed increase (untweaked) compared with a heavily tweaked (for max speed) Hermes. That said though, that increase is not across the board in all applications.
Regarding whether it's dual core or not - well it just depends what you mean. Not perhaps dual core as we might normally think of it but rather a double processor function with seperate handling of some functions. That has advantages and dedicates processing to specific functions. In any case of course dual core is a much over hyped concept and for example a quad core can still be slower than a double or single processor. Much of this whole idea about cores is misleading and panders to those unenlihghtened folk who assume that the more cores you have the faster things will be. Very crudely put would you rather a dual 100 mhz core processor or a single 400mhz processor?
Mike
Its got one processor for PDA function and another for 3g... which actually means worse battery consumption... I heard HTC etc are working on a combined processor
And to answer the poster above, it actually depends what jobs I was asking the device to do...
unwired4 said:
And to answer the poster above, it actually depends what jobs I was asking the device to do...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, a wise answer.
Mike
There's a lot of talk about this subject, and from an architecture standpoint it depends on how you define "dual core". In modern terms, it means two processors with identical functions packaged together. However, that's only true of the last couple of years.
Back in the days of the 386, a separate processor was required to do floating point math. This co-processor (the FPU) was built into the die of the 486 chip. In the days of the Pentium Pro, the cache chip and its supporting logic was on-die, then removed in the Pentium II, then re-integrated in the Pentium III. The Athlon64 chip took the memory controller, formerly in a separate chip, and put it on-die to increase performance. The next generation Intel mobile processors will have an integrated GPU chip in the CPU (and AMD/Cyrix did the same several years ago). In the strictest definition, all of these are "systems on a chip" (SoCs) and are "multi-core" processors, as they take the functionality of two chips ("cores"), and integrate them into one.
The question is, when does a processor that can accelerate multiple functions simultanesously stop being "multi-core" and start being a processor that has a function built in?
The Quallcomm 7200 and 7500 SoCs have several "co-processors" built in. There's one for graphics, one for GPS, one for the radio, etc. Saying it's "multi-core" by modern standards is a stretch, but it does indeed have dedicated processor acceleration for various processor tasks. It's more in line with how some of the above examples work than "true" multi-processing like a Core Duo or Athlon X2 work, but it's there.
He's right, the side of the Tilt box says "QUALCOMM(r) Dual Core 400 Mhz Processor"
Pretty misleading. 2nd core doesn't operate at 400 Mhz, either (290-something, I think)
DLD
well I can say that coming from a wizard (200 mhz) ran everything to my kaiser (260 or 290 for the phone and 400 for everything else) its an incredible diference. on the wizard hit the hang up button 20-30 times LITERALLY and then it wil finally disconnect hit the hang up botton on the kaiser no mater what ur running it disconnects instantly. and I know its definitely capable of running games much quicker than my my wizard. also keep in mind the wizard was overclocked 252 with every tweak and the kaiser is stock.
A good discusion, if you look at Intel's roadmap they are heading in the direction of having 'core acceleration'. Theye are designing seperate cores for different tasks, so if you want a sql server you would have a core that's dedicated to windows, one dedicated to storage, and one that's dedicated to sql... or something like that...
But hey when you have 80cores in a processor you can specialise them I suppose.
Yeah, finally picked up the Tilt yesterday and what I thought I saw is what I definitely saw, as confirmed by exzist and RacerX earlier in the thread. Definitely an interesting discussion as to what that really does mean.
Not sure if you all have seen this. Apparently, the processor in the Wings has a special chip for handling video. If HTC delivered the driver, it would increase the responsiveness of all video, including the interface and gaming.
For more info, check out HTCClassAction.org (which also has info on a possible upcoming update for the TTyNII which may include WM6.1, I'd expect they'll do the same for the S730).
source
that sounds TERRIBLE!
so basically our htc wings could be MUCH faster with the right drivers??????
WTF
That's correct.
Do you need the better proof? )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIJWAu6IRe4
According to the datasheet on the processor, there's some other stuff... like TV out, that probably isn't even wired. Man... what a sham!
that makes me really mad...
is there a chance that htc will release the drivers for faster graphics and ATI chip support?
or is there a way a ROM can be cooked which makes these things work?
I'm busy getting those drivers. See my post in another thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1876110#post1876110
Surfboomerang said:
I'm busy getting those drivers. See my post in another thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1876110#post1876110
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good luck with that! You may have better chances by calling ATI and telling them you're a developer working on contract with HTC.
mm
the more people that email Ati, HTC, Qualcomm about this the bigger the chance is of getting a response.
I ahev also mailed ATi asking about this but never got a reply
So i was in school today, and in study hall i was playing with my friend laurens Verizon Voyager.
I was playing around noticing how great it played music/video and the graphics and such. How clear the screen was, and all different things like that...
So i turn the phone around to take a picture of me making a silly face...
This is where i saw somthing.
On the back, in a pretty small logo. It Said Qualcomm.
So aprently the voyager used a Qualcomm chipset...
So i did some reseach
the voyager uses a qualcomm MSM6250 Chipset.
I found comparisons between the MSM6250 Chipset and the MSM7xxx Chipsets
According to qualcomm the 7 series is supposed to be up to 4x Faster, Smoother, and Longer in performance, graphics/video, and battery.
So can someone please explain to me.. Why a Verizon voyager can clearly outpass my Att Tilt.
Thanks
htcclassaction.org
Well, I'd say "DRIVERS!!!", but I'm kinda careful with that now.
I'd say that until you test your kaiser under same conditions in that same room, you shouldn't be that dissapointed. Under good lighting conditions Kaiser's cam is a pretty damn good one.
As we're seen from the latest comparison from mobilereview (there's a thread somewhere), kaiser's GDI drawing (scrolls, pages, etc) is the same as any other high end pda.
Not trying to say that Voyager can't be better in some places than the Kaiser with no drivers.. just trying to stop the trend of blaming everything on drivers and bashing Kaiser at every turn.
DarkDvr said:
As we're seen from the latest comparison from mobilereview (there's a thread somewhere), kaiser's GDI drawing (scrolls, pages, etc) is the same as any other high end pda.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you kidding ?
I own a HTC Prophet(very old device, OMAP 200Mhz), a HTC Touch(new device, same OMAP 200Mhz) and a HTC Kaiser(new device, Qualcomm 400Mhz). I also have friends with Eten X500(old device, Samsung 400Mhz) and ASUS P535(new device, Intel 520Mhz)
The GDI sucks big time on the Kaiser, it's worse than any of those mentioned above. By worse, i mean A LOT WORSE. I don't know where you read that it's the same, maybe the same with the rest of the gimped HTC crap(Qualcomm based).
Actually, I came to realise that it's a lot more complicated than "ZOMG d00d my Kaiser is da ****, it's a lot worse than calculator my grandma used in school".
Look at the vids and benchmarks here:
http://translate.google.com/transla...tc-drivers.shtml&langpair=ru|en&hl=en&ie=UTF8
hi....
im highly keen on gettin the diamond2 when it comes out (due to the guaranteed free upgrade to 6.5, and for under £400 there isn't much else that rivals it (correct me on this tho if i'm unaware of any rivals!))
BUT. doing research on the chipset i've heard and seen all sorts of posts about bad drivers for the qualcomm chipset that was used in the first touch diamond, about how the video performance was terrible, and how they underperformed compared to much older chips!
So........does anyone know whether the video performance of this diamond2 will be better/whether HTC have fixed these issues/whether the qualcomm chipset in the diamond2 is different to the one in the 1st diamond, or if its been updated or what?
basically.......is the phone going to work as expected! i currently have an ipaq 614c with an intel chipset, PXA270. I mean...is the qualcomm chipset in the diamond2 better??
iv'e also heard that the htc touch HD solved a lot of the problems or something because it had better drivers? if this is true.............the specs on the htc website show the touchHD as having a Qualcomm MSM 7201A. Whereas the Htc touch diamond2 has a Qualcomm MSM 7200A. Now..........whats the difference. Is the 7201A the decent correct chipset with good video performance (if all of the above is true), and the 7200 the crappy one??
until i have answers to all these questions.....i won't be able to focus on university
I think the 7201A is the a 7200 with certain features that would infrnge some US patents deactiviated.
Could be wrong?
The MSM7201A is just like the MSM7200, Graphics wise. Only difference is that HTC adds a "driver" for their so-called 3D...
Look into the Blackstone forums to see for yourself about the performance of the MSM7201A chipset. Then decide if you're still going to buy it. (I wouldn't, although i've got a Blackstone)
no MSM7200a is the world version
which include the ability to recoard vga at 30fps and the world 3g frequescies
MSM7201A is the american version which don't include the 30fps video capture because of a patent by broadcom and it use the american 3g frequescies
this is pure chip hardware and dont have anything to do with what
drivers htc provide
Rudegar said:
no MSM7200a is the world version
which include the ability to recoard vga at 30fps and the world 3g frequescies
MSM7201A is the american version which don't include the 30fps video capture because of a patent by broadcom and it use the american 3g frequescies
this is pure chip hardware and dont have anything to do with what
drivers htc provide
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm I live in France, bought a Touch HD, and got a MSM7201a chipste on my device from Orange France. Nothing related to the american market here.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I can do 3G with my phone so...
The last a in MSM7201a and MSM7200a indicates that it's a 528 MHz version, without a it's 400 MHz. I've read that HTC went back to the MSM7200a version because of the poor video recording performance on the MSM7201a chip. So, I guess it may be older, but it's better. That's why both the D2 and the Pro2 get that one.
I guess the chipset could be allright. But HTC hasn't been all that good in providing proper drivers (so it seems).
Although I'm beginning to wonder if the Qualcomm chipsets are actually able to do good 2d and 3d graphics.
For example, when comparing it to a Samsung Omnia with a 624mhz Marvell it's really a world of difference. Ofcourse the Omnia has a smaller resolution (wqvga instead of vga) but it's much much faster than my Diamond (in about everything).
Especially when playing a movie or something with quite a high resolution (divx for example). It's much faster than the Diamond, and usually plays everything without any problem. Even compared to a Diamond with Coreplayer (for the Qualcomm video support).
So.. in short. I would not quite put all my hope on HTC delivering some magical drivers which increase performance a lot.
I rather think the Diamond2 will be much like the original Diamond. But with extra software features like a new TouchFLO 3D and some extra/other hardware features.
Looking at HTC's track record I doubt 'new high performance qualcomm drivers' is not one of the new software features.
edit: Btw, obviously don't take my word on this. I'd say if you are interested in a Diamond2, wait for it to be available and give it a nice test run. Check it out for yourself and see if you like it and think the speed is good enough for you. In the end that's all what counts, if you are happy with your/the device or not!
Like you said , the Omnia is only 400x240 with a CPU clocked 100mhz higher. The msm7201a in the diamond is running slower and has to push X2.74 more pixels! (and 3x more on the wvga phones). it has nothing to do with drivers (the majority doesn't seem to understand that) now regarding video perf that's another story. Coreplayer support HW accel on the Omnia (PXA cpu) but not on the Qualcomm chips (the Qtv mode is only a hack to accel DDdraw overlay) Only
WMP/HTc album support HW accel (and only on MP4 files).
I'm certainly not expecting any dramatic speed enhancements from the D2. And like I said, the difference between the 00 and the 01 is, as I read elsewhere, the video recording speed, not the playback.
Take a look here
http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp
Clearly HTC devices for some reason perform worse than 3 year old devices. These new devices will be no different as they are based on the same hardware. HTC are a joke.
So whats a good handy with good 2D/3D performance and Windows Mobile on it?
So...
Moby2kBug said:
So whats a good handy with good 2D/3D performance and Windows Mobile on it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the toshiba G01 with an 1Ghz Snapdragon CPU,
the HTC "Superstar" with Nvidia chipset
the HTC "Star" with Snapdragon CPU
the Acer F1 with an 800Mhz Snapdragon CPU and an ATI co-processor
Add if I missed one
All of them should run 3D-games etc. well
I would take the F1 from Acer, because it's sleek and elegant designed and only priced at 560€.
take a look: http://translate.google.com/transla...apdragon-cpu.html&sl=nl&tl=en&history_state0=
I've been playing around with Coreplayer by watching TV programs recorded by Vista media centre from a network share. It plays the video at 31 fps and looks absolutely stunning.
Also, screen rotation from landscape to portrait is instantaneous.
I am not too worried about the chipset when I see this performance.
It records video in VGA no problems and plays back no problem - to me, it has no problem with Video
From what I have read the difference between the 7201a and the 7200a is the fab process: 90 vs 65. So the 7201a should be slightly more power efficient (although if it is only the CPU I don't know what the net difference will be).
Why they switched is a mystery. At first I assumed that it was related to their supply side situation: They have plants that can build 7200a and rather than revampt them, they released a few devices that use the 7200a rather than the 7201a.
Ingore that one - the Topaz and Rhodium each have the 7201a. The 7200a was a typo.
pidsw said:
From what I have read the difference between the 7201a and the 7200a is the fab process: 90 vs 65.
...snip...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope That's what the "a" is for:
7200/7201 (not sure it exists): 90 nm process
7200a/7201a: 65 nm process
the 7201(if it exists)/7201a peculiarity is really due to a US patent. and this peculiarity is a downgrade...So if you have the choice between a 7200 and 7201, pick the 7200 if video recording is important to you, else pick randomly (or the cheaper ;-) ).
Whilst it may not be the fastest device in the world, for a 'Joke' company the reviews of the touch diamond2 are pretty good wouldnt you say?
Its a phone by the way!
PS. My touch diamond 2 has the 7200a, it says so in the 'Device information'
I don't have performance problems....movies in full DVD resolution are playing smooth, GPS lag isn't present, as on TD1...so I am copmpletely satisfied..
Actually speaking of GPS, it seems to work much much better on the TD2 than any others i have tried it against (kaiser/touch pro 2) I actually have close to full reception in buildings that the others wouldnt pick up on.
Video playback works great in media player with .mp4 files.
And the whole thing is just really responsive and fast at a stock rom vs the kaiser and touch pro 2.
Found the datasheet on MSM7200A, would be pleased if any of you guys check it and compare it to iPhone graphics chip
Xperia proccessor MSM7200A, with integrated graphics chip
iPhone graphics chip PowerVR MBX-Lite (Sorry no datasheet)
Since the most popular (because of its app store, games quantity) is iPhone,
And I must say iPhone games are really superb for a graphics aspect, imo best graphics in mobile phones/pda/smartphones field. (like Sims 3, NFS Undercover), I wonder if Xperia could do the same.
In GSM arena, I discovered that iPhone graphics chip is Powervr MBX-Lite (On iPhone & iPhone 3G), featuring OpenGL ES 1.1, OpenVG 1.0, Direct3D and of course full 2D/3D support, which, compared MSM7200A integrated ATi accelaration, well, really Im not a Pro out here, so I've just found a Datasheet on this.
Not to tell about the WM gaming industry, which is ermm "....", but the fact, hope, that we could have this...
Now we have almost everything - itje, who dedicated very much to xda (his roms, other deeds are priceless) ((ofcourse his Touch-IT testing team, who not only answer touch-it related questions but is active like everyhwere)) other Rom and active app's/ xda contributors like gtrab, smaberg, jackleung,Tnyynt, fingerkeyboard makers, HTC encoder makers, other guys, fixing our phone bugs, creating soft for us,moderators... I could go on and on
naming these great people, who raised up our xperia from stock to almost perfection.
So only issue is...(for me ) gaming.
Heard that EA, gameloft are porting iPhone games to newer WM devices, but, I dont think that these sources are...well...realistic.
Tautvydas said:
Been looking in forums, web, to be precise, everywhere, even Xperia X1 White Paper, but Still havent got clarified answer on what Graphics chip does Xperia use. So I made several assumptions, by checking the information a little bit.
As common answer is Xperia uses ATI Imageon 2700, in Wikipedia there's no such chip number as "2700", also, Products with Imageon well, there's no xperia!
Imo, variants Xperia graphics chip is "Imageon 2388/2380" or "Imageon 2300" (If its even Imageon) , just need you guys to clarify this.
Just why I am making this thread - since Xperia is very versatile, like music/internet/messaging/videos with qwerty and etc. the only problem (for me), well, not as a problem, but as a shortage - gaming.
We have ScuMMM, sNes, sega, even PSX emu's, and maybe one game, who shows what Xperia is capable of - Xtrakt.
Since the most popular (because of its app store, games quantity) is iPhone,
And I must say iPhone games are really superb for a graphics aspect, imo best graphics in mobile phones/pda/smartphones field. (like Sims 3, NFS Undercover), I wonder if Xperia could do the same.
In GSM arena, I discovered that iPhone graphics chip is Powervr MBX-Lite (On iPhone & iPhone 3G), featuring OpenGL ES 1.1, OpenVG 1.0, Direct3D and of course full 2D/3D support, which, compared to "Imageon 2388/2380", is "almost" equal (dunno about Direct3D, although I think its not supported by Imageon) , so if any of you would tell whats the Xperia graphics chip, we would clarify the fact that we "could" enjoy the iPhone graphics (^^)
Not to tell about the WM gaming industry, which is ermm "....", but the fact, hope, that we could have this...
Now we have almost everything - itje, who dedicated very much to xda (his roms, other deeds are priceless) ((ofcourse his Touch-IT testing team, who not only answer touch-it related questions but is active like everyhwere)) other Rom and active app's/ xda contributors like gtrab, smaberg, jackleung,Tnyynt, fingerkeyboard makers, HTC encoder makers, other guys, fixing our phone bugs, creating soft for us,moderators... I could go on and on
naming these great people, who raised up our xperia from stock to almost perfection.
So only issue is...(for me ) gaming.
Heard that EA, gameloft are porting iPhone games to newer WM devices, but, I dont think that these sources are...well...realistic.
My target is to clarify Xperia graphics potential, know full information about graphics chip
P.S. Yes I've searched xda/google for this like crazy. Sorry for this thread to go as a poem.
P.S.S. Yes Xperia is business class phone, but hey, why not to dream? It still has got one of the best HW on WM devices around.
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Could you maybe find out by taking the x1 apart and looking at all of the chips? I looked at some videos online but couldnt see the names on any chips - not sure if it would even say but it seems as if it could work - i looked around a bit too and i keep hearing about the Imageon 2300 but i cant confirm it sorry
the ati part is not a chip it's intergrated into the qualcomm cpu
http://www.google.dk/search?source=ig&hl=da&rlz=&q=MSM7200a+ati&btnG=Google-søgning&aq=f&oq=
more info
Well its not the 2300, here a quote from ati "Imageon 2300 integrates an advanced 2D and 3D graphics engine, MPEG-4 video decoder, JPEG encoding/decoding, and a 2 Mega pixel camera sub-system processing engine. With support for up to 2MB of ultra low-power SDRAM, it "
link:http://ati.amd.com/products/imageon2300/
since we have (being said) 128 mb shared ram and ive also read some where in some sheet that we have an tuned up gpu. (this is all speculative tho)
and why do the touch pro have 288 and we 256 ram? do we have a better gpu needing more ram ?
Updated the post, please check, now only we need guys to compare both phones graphics capability.
Chaosstorm said:
Well its not the 2300, here a quote from ati "Imageon 2300 integrates an advanced 2D and 3D graphics engine, MPEG-4 video decoder, JPEG encoding/decoding, and a 2 Mega pixel camera sub-system processing engine. With support for up to 2MB of ultra low-power SDRAM, it "
link:http://ati.amd.com/products/imageon2300/
since we have (being said) 128 mb shared ram and ive also read some where in some sheet that we have an tuned up gpu. (this is all speculative tho)
and why do the touch pro have 288 and we 256 ram? do we have a better gpu needing more ram ?
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Seems like SE/HTC made some kind of adjustment with these GPU on xperia's MSM7200A, wondering what, so your guessing might be right about better xperia's gpu, or its just that touch pro's all interface/oem/os modifications are more "hungry" for ram.
Just for curiosity, new released iPhone 3GS has PowerVR SGX535 graphics, also SE iDou has same chip from SGX family (530 one), so we can expect awesome graphics, chip's techinical capabilities are very big:
# next generation fully programmable universal scalable shader architecture
# exceeding requirements of OpenGL 2.0 and up to DirectX 10.1 Shader Model 4.1
Just that 3GS's chip will be better than iDou's (535 - 28MPolys/s , 530 - 14 MPolys/s)
soo..... where can we find an D3D drivers for X1i?