Database Develop

HTCClassAction.org - October 9, 2008 - Kaiser / Polaris / Nike

The site is up and running, discussion here!

Frontpage is done, see http://www.htcclassaction.org/. Feel free to comment. None of the other pages on the site are done yet, though.

I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...

There isn't really a point to the petition, as companies don't really care. There probably isn't a big point with a class action lawsuit either, as it's entirely possible we won't win. It is something that should be investigated, as ultimately, it's just a way of applying pressure, getting publicity and raising awareness.
And nope, I'm not a former employee, but I am disgruntled by the way HTC is treating us.

Looks very good!

Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?

jackleung said:
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The most basic rule when buying a PDA: Only buy what you know youre getting, not what you think youre getting. I learnt that the hard way three years ago,its the same game all over. I think its an annual event.

Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you should read the main thread before posting crap like this. There are plenty of people, including myself who think a class action suite would be a good idea. Even if we didn't win or had no real grounds for one, the negative feedback alone could cause HTC to do something about the driver support.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339745

Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Chainfire mentioned, petitions never work. This is because people eventually "cool off" and stop caring that they've been ripped off.
If I paid a lot less for my Kaiser, I wouldn't care as much that it's being outperformed by the older cheaper HTC models. We paid an arm and leg for these costly phones, we'd expect them to at least give us the basics (drivers).
How would you feel if you bought some fancy & expensive graphics board only to have to use the generic drivers that come with your OS?
Chainfire, great work. Let us know when you've set up the paypal account.

Oh, by the way, wonderful site Chainfire. It has all the info needed in one neatly organized site.

Excellent site Chainfire. If this is indicative of the effort you put into things, my previous (and future) donations have been well spent!! Very clear and to the point.
I posted a link on the "Proper video drivers...." sticky to a Google page tlaking about the bright new future of Android. Just wondered if it is worth highlighting to visitors to the site that HTC is one of the core companies developing this - perhaps if they realise HTC's attitude will affect more than just the current devices. Or maybe they won't care as most casual browsers don't know what Android is? Ah, I don't know.
Hey, if we draw public attention to all this, and then someone manages to address the issue here on XDA-devs, could that cause problems - infringment of copyright etc?

I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter. What do 99% of people do with their Kaisers anyway? There are lots of people around me where I work that use Windows smart phones and they are happy to get their push mail, GPS, bluetooth, whatever. I think they could care less about video drivers.
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have some video acceleration, but most users probably could care less. We are the minority.
I think raising awareness is a great idea. Perhaps listing those manufactures that actually support their WinMo devices with proper drivers is even better, so potential buyers would know to spend their money else wehere.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things.
If you bought an unlocked Kaiser and spend a large bit of cash, well you take the first movers risk. No reason anyone couldn't wait to see what others though of the device before purchasing it.
You certainly can't will things into existence. Can't buy an HTC phone and wish into existence some drivers that it never had in the first place.
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
I'm not trying to ruin anyones plans or desires to get the most out of their phones, but why not just not buy the phone?
I for one look forward to something like Android, so hobbiests and consumers can put the features they want to exploit in to place on phones like the Kaiser. I hope this drastically changes the market and gives us more choice in our software, and forces manufacturers to do more than the bare minimum with these devices.
-James

jmacdonald801 said:
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, given older HTC devices never mentioned video acceleration in their specs either and that they're certainly performing better than the Kaiser, I think it's fair to expect performance which at the very least matches that of former models.

I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things...
...As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.

jomo25 said:
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe, as stated elsewhere, it's mostly a pressure and publicity tool. In the end, if we do do the case, it doesn't even really matter if we win it. The publicity and awareness it will generate... There's the headology factor. People are happy using a gadget. People learn the gadget can do a lot more then it does. People are unhappy using the gadget. People complain about the gadget. Creator of gadget fixes gadget
Mark my words, if enough attention is given to this, HTC will do the right thing, if only to save face.

Great site so far Chainfire. I pray that this brings enough attention to move HTC to action. Without those drivers, I can compare this to buying a Corvette only to realize once on the road that the governor is set to 30mph.

Satus update
Status update:
The site is almost finished and uploaded, apart from the "Responses from HTC" section.
- Please read the 'drivers in detail' page and tell me what you think
- Please help me collect 'carrier branded' names of the devices in question
I have also setup a paypal address for donations for the AdWords campaign only, you can find a button on the "What you can do" page. I already put 100 euro's in there myself, and it's been getting extra visitors for almost an hour now.
Before I finish the "Responses from HTC" part, start submitting to slashdot, digg, etc, it's time for dinner

you might want to add the htc vogue/sprint touch to your list on htcclassaction.org, it suffers the same problem and i believe it has a similar chipset with the same 3d hardware.
i think htc will just say,well just because the chipset we use has 3d hardware built in doesn't mean we have to enable or support it because it was never advertised as such.

I'd have to download and extract a ROM to be sure though, I'll do that later.

jmacdonald801 said:
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said...but I am a little under the influence right now. To be honest, my phone works for GPS, works for email, works for web browsing, sync's via activesync, plays movies just fine (no slider issues when adjusting sound), allows me to read ebooks, works with office mobile (though I would like to be able to save Word documents as .DOC files, not .DOCX). Guess I'm with the 99% because I really don't see any issues with the phone that cause me to get on a soapbox. I really don't care if this makes me unpopular, but I'm so sick of people coming on this forum and moaning about video driver issues. Show me one other device that does all the things that a Kaiser can do? iPhone, no GPS and limited open source unless you want to run the risk of bricking the device, Nokia? Please, I had the 9xxx series of communicators for years. I had the choice between the latest comunicator series or the Kaiser, I went with the Kaiser as Symbian sucked. The N95, QWERTY keyboard???
This phone is not designed as a graphics device, its a business tool. If you want DVD quality movies, buy a portable DVD player, graphic intensive games, get a PSP. I have a Nokia 2110 mobile from 10 years ago that can't handle MID files, a Garmin Sat-Nav the size of a house brick and a digital camera that uses 3.5" floppy discs cause memory cards hadn't been invented when it was launched. HTC have packed an MP3 player, sat-nav, laptop computer, digital camera, mobile phone (...the list goes on) inside a device the size of a packet of cigarettes. Personally I think this is amazing, lets give them a bit of credit for doing this!
[/drunk rant off...]

Gadget Show Channel 5 UK - iphone v Touch Diamond

As above - Chl 5 8pm tonight

i doubt this will be usefull or give you the result you hope for.
I doubt they will even know, let alone try, about flashing and the massive advantages this gives. I doubt they will touch on the various 3rd party apps that really make this phone and instead, will focus on a standard "factory fit" which, lets face it, is a bit crap. Will they cover the fact that this phone is an exellent business tool (oh how i miss TV/VGA out ... )
I also doubt they will mention the Iphones failings, its 2.0 software disaster, its "push" (yeerrr right!) email or the fact people are having there entire contacts and calendars being wiped out in front of them or again that they STILL can't change batteries
I see them going for the Iphone.

Who knows, Germans have choosen Diamond as a best phone on the world with iPhone as a 2nd with quite big adventage. Who knows, maybe those people will make some big review and will compare those phones in every aspect.

nutcracker2 said:
Who knows, Germans have choosen Diamond as a best phone on the world with iPhone as a 2nd with quite big adventage. Who knows, maybe those people will make some big review and will compare those phones in every aspect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean "Germans"? Do you mean the entire population voted on it or a selected "Gadget Show" like TV program?

http://www.inside-handy.de/news/12140.html
1500 of german inside-handy.de users choosen Diamond as most desirable phone of the year. I was wrong, not the best, but most desirable

The Gadget Show IMO is only of use to morons - the sort who go to Currys etc and believe the 'salesmen' when they say they need a £80 monster hdmi cable. They never set things up properly and i'll guarantee they haven't flashed the roms etc. I know you shouldn't really need to but thats my point, gadget show is for people who don't know nothing!

nutcracker2 said:
http://www.inside-handy.de/news/12140.html
1500 of german inside-handy.de users choosen Diamond as most desirable phone of the year. I was wrong, not the best, but most desirable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... but the poll was done in 12.06.2008 with the old iPhone and not with 3G!

nokmond said:
The Gadget Show IMO is only of use to morons - the sort who go to Currys etc and believe the 'salesmen' when they say they need a £80 monster hdmi cable. They never set things up properly and i'll guarantee they haven't flashed the roms etc. I know you shouldn't really need to but thats my point, gadget show is for people who don't know nothing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I watch the gadget show because some of it well put together and you can tell the producers/presenters do know what they are talking about even if they do have to dumb it down for a maintream tv audience somewhat.
As regards the flashing issue, I doubt they will go into it in detail but why should they? Most users don't know about it and if you did tell them they probably wouldnt want to be bothered with it anyway. Its a big time sink just for a setting up a mobile, which should really have been done by HTC in the first place.

Check out this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybaPS0NLwFQ
Most of the people they ask dont even realise about all the 3rd party apps or different roms,all they seem interested in is the way it looks.

owz206 said:
Check out this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybaPS0NLwFQ
Most of the people they ask dont even realise about all the 3rd party apps or different roms,all they seem interested in is the way it looks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the link, i hadn't realised before how crappy that show is, are they trying to be Top Gear or something! They're doing camera shots of the pavement that are so quick the phones blurred! And if the presenter emphasised his words anymore he'd explode.
In that video, that kind of test is always going to be about looks, if you even try to use the phone you wont know how because youve only had 5 seconds with it so all they can compare is looks, size, weight etc and go on what the presenters say.

Two things immediately spring to mind on watching the clip - Apple has spent a fortune on promoting the iphone, so that anyone who watches TV will have an idea how it works - if the touch screen from the Diamond had been given similar video tutorials on primetime TV, no doubt a lot of people would find the interface just as user friendly.
The other factor is the Apple effect - people feel that Apple has a brand value akin to Richard Branson's woolly jumpers - all cuddly and vaguely environmental/hippy chic. I prefer to be apart from the crowds, not queueing to buy on the basis of marketing hype.

Well I'm definitely sending my Diamond back. The one they had on the gadget show had a hardware keyboard and a Nokia label. Mine has neither.

ericsson68 said:
Well I'm definitely sending my Diamond back. The one they had on the gadget show had a hardware keyboard and a Nokia label. Mine has neither.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL yeah i know i watched it too..... check out the youtube link for the web tv review (previous posts)
The review was crap anyway, people like the look of the iphone, but thats it.
None of the functionality of the Diamond was really talked about, very poor review. (if you could even call it that !)

nokmond said:
The Gadget Show IMO is only of use to morons - the sort who go to Currys etc and believe the 'salesmen' when they say they need a £80 monster hdmi cable. They never set things up properly and i'll guarantee they haven't flashed the roms etc. I know you shouldn't really need to but thats my point, gadget show is for people who don't know nothing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree the Gadget Show is for people who don not know anything - I watch it over the internet and I find this a useful program indeed. But I do disagree with some of the shows findings on best products...

nubbin said:
Two things immediately spring to mind on watching the clip - Apple has spent a fortune on promoting the iphone, so that anyone who watches TV will have an idea how it works - if the touch screen from the Diamond had been given similar video tutorials on primetime TV, no doubt a lot of people would find the interface just as user friendly.
The other factor is the Apple effect - people feel that Apple has a brand value akin to Richard Branson's woolly jumpers - all cuddly and vaguely environmental/hippy chic. I prefer to be apart from the crowds, not queueing to buy on the basis of marketing hype.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"marketing hype" something Apple Computers are very good at G

Of the bat:
-The show looks cheesy as ****, something apple users tend to like!
-The 60 year old host, talking bout technology? Not good! (no harm intended to any 60 year old member in the forum)
And Ill always do this on any thread that contains the words FruityPhone:
FruitPhone SUCKS!!!!
Remeber, second best they are.

the show is usually quite good, but after watching this they did not give the htc a proper review. I mean come on if you put a iphone in front of everyone they know what it is straight away! Seems like the Apple advertising is really sucessful.
I dont mind if our Diamond isnt as big as iphone to be honest.
After all do you want everyone to have the same phone as you! I call it a small prestige club and I am honored to have be in it.

Sergio PC said:
Of the bat:
-The show looks cheesy as ****, something apple users tend to like!
-The 60 year old host, talking bout technology? Not good! (no harm intended to any 60 year old member in the forum)
And Ill always do this on any thread that contains the words FruityPhone:
FruitPhone SUCKS!!!!
Remeber, second best they are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you possibly be any more offensive with your outdated and ageist remark?
He's not even 60.
Idiot.

kidd78 said:
the show is usually quite good, but after watching this they did not give the htc a proper review. ......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you watch the same show as me? I only saw the IPhone versus a Nokia....
I suppose you are right in a sense, they didn't give the HTC a proper review ... as they didnt have one!

I stopped watching the gadget show a few years ago because i get the feeling that they really dont know what they are talking about, the reveiws and tests that they do are completley stupid and of course they are given more money to say good things about certain products.
There was an episode i flicked onto the other month, and they had picked out a bunch of HD TV's an said they were gonna get the best experts in the country to give them a thouogh testing to see which one was the best! So they took them to the tech guys (pc worlds attempt at making ppl think that their getting good advice!) who stood about 2 foot away from the screens an said that none of them were particaully good and then said the most expencive one wa no good because it was a Plasma set and could suffer from screen burn!
In short the show is biased to whoever pays them the most money to give the best review!!!1!!!

PLEASE - I NEED HELP JAILBREAKING MY iPHONE 3GS!!!

JUST KIDDING!!! I will NEVER own an iPhone of any generation - PERIOD!!
↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓
​
Hyperplasia07_from_youtube said:
I have bought all three generations of iPhones on launch day, but I cannot take it any longer.
In the end, it was rejection of Google Voice from the App Store that drove me to this point, but that was just the tip of the spear. Whether it is their refusal to let other gadgets such as the Palm Pre interface with iTunes, or their Draconian App Store procedures...I simply cannot support them with a clear conscience, which is why I chose to end the life of my iPhone in this manner instead of selling it--after all, who would want to pass on a cancer to another person?
Apple may have fooled the world with their witty commercials and bright t-shirts, but they will no longer fool me. Their approach has helped them gain a sizable chunk of the PC market, but as their popularity grows, people will begin to see them for what they really are--a corporation far more "evil" than Microsoft would ever dream to be.
Apple is turning consumerism into communism. Any entity that enforces such anti-competitive practices and dictates what their paying population can and cannot have without any explanation, consistency, or reason is communistic. It's wrong and I will no longer support it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Haha well, i dont mind spreading the "cancer," im reselling my iphone
And i dont hate the iphone, i just dont like it or apple anymore...

You know, it actually held up better than I thought it would in that video

Da_G said:
You know, it actually held up better than I thought it would in that video
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha! I know right? I would have figured the first round would have blown it to pieces but no.... It took 4 before the phone even broke in half!

Went on the rounds not so long ago via faceplant/twit the music really sets the scenario

Congrats, must feel good

Insane...LoL...but great stress relief
Seriously, I hope this guy doesn't take this to another step...and start shooting a apple store or even worst

Now I'd like to see "50cal V. iPad"

Those Foxconn workers may be suicidal, but the build a tough phone

The title should be "PLEASE HELP THIS LAME PHONE MAKE SOME FRIENDS!"

AGAIN!!! AGAIN!!! The iphone does make a good target.

Thought this was brilliant when I watched it, music really does set the scene!
How many times do you reckon the guy missed? Or is he a better shot then I would be if I ever touched a gun....

Displeased with the cult yuppie social status symbolism of the iPhone...

I admit that I was a formerly proud owner of the first iPhone (2G) but have disliked the gradually cultish nature of iPhone users over the years. I have met a lot of iPhone users nowadays and strangely enough, a lot of them express a particular self-absorption and lack of interest in the well-being of others for some odd reason.
I know that there isn't a scientific reason/explanation for a device affecting the personality of the iPhone owners or the culture of them as a group, but how can such a device have an impact on the lifestyles of these people. So my question is why are such people who are iPhone users tend to be ego-obsessed, yuppie-like, megacapitalist, arrogant, etc. etc. blah blah?
Case in point: I was on a recent date with lady who owned an iPhone and she couldn't keep her eyes off her iPhone all the time. After all, I would be hoping that I would have a word in straightedgewise once in awhile...?
(Btw, I myself am mostly a Palm Pre Plus and Android user mostly. I do use an iPad and iPhone for my art studio work so I am probably guilty of some of these qualities too?)
Anyways, regardless of political orientation, what is the sociological explanation for the cult yuppish nature and type A personalities of the iPhone owners? Feel free to flame on, but I'm actually interested in reasoned explanations of this mystery.

I think yuppie implies some sort of exclusivity or poshness. In an era where every man and his dog has an iphone i see it more as a commoners device
Actually, in my mind i see it as iphone=girls, Android=lads, Blackberry=Business, Anything Nokia=Simpletons, Palm=Non-conformist loners.

Yuppies, aka, hipsters. They are invading my neighborhood, which used to be a nice quiet Polish area.
They don't like anything mainstream (that's why they dress like **** and listen to ****ty music) but LOVE anything apple. They are one of those people that if an Apple worker takes a crap, names it iCrap, they will buy it. I really think there is nothing special about an iPhone, well maybe except ending the call by touching the side of it. There is nothing my G2 can't do that an iPhone can.
Don't get me wrong, I own an iPad, but I barely use it, and I was thinking of using it for my photo biz, and used it for that a few times already. I only bought it because iPad competitors were nowhere to be found, except the Gtab

DirkGently1 said:
I think yuppie implies some sort of exclusivity or poshness. In an era where every man and his dog has an iphone i see it more as a commoners device
Actually, in my mind i see it as iphone=girls, Android=lads, Blackberry=Business, Anything Nokia=Simpletons, Palm=Non-conformist loners.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most people on this planet are "non-tech-savvy". They don't know the difference between 1080p and 720p, RDP and VNC, what's a "VPN", etc. The folks from Apple perfectly know this - that's why they make the most straightforward devices I've ever seen. Total lack of design (I mean c'mon - a button and a screen?) + an elementary user interface (considered revolutionary) = the iPhone. It's for people who want "high tech" and ""usability"" (notice the doubled quotation marks), who wouldn't probably ever want to know what makes their device tick, or even if it's working correctly, because "they simply won't understand it". That actually makes the iPhone something I would gladly give to my 75-year-old grandpa, whose knowledge of modern computer hardware and software is on about the same level as my cat's. I guess this is the primal reason Apple managed to create an enormous fan base of people, who would buy everything with a bitten apple engraved on it and, of course, Steve Jobs has praised for ~2 hours straight (in their presentations) with hundreds of five-dollar words like "this time we exceeded ourselves" or "it's truly amazing, MAGICAL even". People, who would so fiercely protect Apple's creations, it's scares me.

Its not the device changing the people, its just the type of people and the demographic that actually considers using an iPhone over a different device. The device has not shaped them but the device has changed our perception of the device and who uses it

DirkGently1 said:
Actually, in my mind i see it as iphone=girls, Android=lads, Blackberry=Business, Anything Nokia=Simpletons, Palm=Non-conformist loners.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
10char..

iphone users are idiots , they pay about 4 times more for the same or less processing power , functions and ease of use that i can get from ebay

I don't think that that's the case unless all the people I see on the buses, subways, streets and schools tend to be "ego-obsessed, yuppie-like, megacapitalist, arrogant, etc. etc. blah blah."
Almost every person I see on a phone outside is on the iPhone 4, of course that's just NYC at the moment.

I always think of that Steve Mobs scene in the Simpsons every time i'm in a room full of people checking their iphone4's.

True that although what to do if you use both Apple and Android?

qipengart said:
True that although what to do if you use both Apple and Android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then you are a troubled man , with a bizarre dilemma to figure out , and need to find yourself

The next Big Thing since all things i

Ok. One of the points I meant by this WHOLE thread was NOT about how you can improve iOS or iPhone. Frankly there are way too many people who already postulated that on the whole of XDA and the interwebs.
I want to encourage people replying to this thread to put on their thinking caps, and think of what sort of futuristic product they can think of that may very well be a potential innovation from Apple. Not a phone, nor an iPad, nothing about iOS. Break free from that shackle. Steve always said that there is no way you can make a great product buy surveying the market and asking them what they want as consumers never know what they want until they see it and so you should think what will be the next revolution....
Soooooooooo...
The idea of this thread is this: (which got lost due to my frankly poor OP)
What would you say the next innovation is.
(P.S: I mention Apple in this thread a lot because traditionally they really where the pioneers of most major trends in electronics - Mac for GUI, then iPods then the in thing - smartphones with great GUI).
Soooooo, commence the scuffle!
--
Original OP (which was badly written and distracted from my main idea) can be found here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31513203&postcount=14

Actually Apple is doing very well for itself right now. It might backfire in the future but for now they are raking in money.

lol @ some random dude on xda saying he could run the most profitable company in the history of this planet better than they could. Man if they'd only found you sooner...

apple is the most valuable stock in NSE,
so its feeding off the rich isheeps

veeman said:
Actually Apple is doing very well for itself right now. It might backfire in the future but for now they are raking in money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point is not that Apple is making losses now. The point was not really about profits. The point was making innovative products that they used to do on a regular basis (iPods, then the iPod nano when they first came) and then the iPhone/iTouch. But now they are just not innovating - either by making cool new products Or improving the existent one.
So, what would u do to give us the "wow" factor from Apple. The resounding wow that everyone said when the iPhone debuted. What would that be?

litetaker said:
The point is not that Apple is making losses now. The point was not really about profits. The point was making innovative products that they used to do on a regular basis (iPods, then the iPod nano when they first came) and then the iPhone/iTouch. But now they are just not innovating - either by making cool new products Or improving the existent one.
So, what would u do to give us the "wow" factor from Apple. The resounding wow that everyone said when the iPhone debuted. What would that be?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow = overpriced gadget + mass media advertising + huge battalion of rich dumbas*es

orangekid said:
lol @ some random dude on xda saying he could run the most profitable company in the history of this planet better than they could. Man if they'd only found you sooner...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Steve Jobs when he first started off, was really into making products that "wow" people. He was also very business minded but still he did heavy investment and caused smaller profits because he spent a lot of time, effort and money on innovation. Same thing at the company "Next". I know I can't make Apple make MORE money than it does now, on its current line up. I am not a marketing or business guru...
I think you fail to see the point I make, oh good sir. What I am saying is Apple lost all innovation and is now purely gaining success on past success and marketing things to people.
And I claim I can and probably you can come up with "better" innovations than Apple does.
And so my question remains: What will you do at Apple as a CEO/Chief Designer that makes us WOW.
Because, if you feel "wow-ed" by Apple's current products, you probably have set a very (keyword: "very") low bar.

litetaker said:
Steve Jobs when he first started off, was really into making products that "wow" people. He was also very business minded but still he did heavy investment and caused smaller profits because he spent a lot of time, effort and money on innovation. Same thing at the company "Next". I know I can't make Apple make MORE money than it does now, on its current line up. I am not a marketing or business guru...
I think you fail to see the point I make, oh good sir. What I am saying is Apple lost all innovation and is now purely gaining success on past success and marketing things to people.
And I claim I can and probably you can come up with "better" innovations than Apple does.
And so my question remains: What will you do at Apple as a CEO/Chief Designer that makes us WOW.
Because, if you feel "wow-ed" by Apple's current products, you probably have set a very (keyword: "very") low bar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That doesn't make any sense. You are saying that if you ran this specific corporation you would not be in it for profit but you would basically just have crazy R&D going to "innovate"
You don't need a corporation or a logo or to run someone else's company for that, you just need money.
Your title is misleading, this is basically just "If you had 20 billion dollars in capital, what would you spend it on as far as R&D goes without trying to attain the most profit but just to be 'innovative'?"
In which case I would say Google Glass is basically what I'd be into, like set up a full AR network as picture in the awesome as hell sci fi book 'Daemon" by Daniel Suarez, and integrate that into your cell phone/communications and stuff.
And as to your claim that you can "run Apple better than Apple does" what you're actually saying is "In my opinion if I had all that capital made from not being original except maybe the very first iteration of the iPhone, I would spend it all not on what has made profit for me but on in what my opinion would be more "innovative" than what I consider the latest rendering of the iPhone to be"
It's the most arbitrary and subjective statement ever. I could just as easily say "If I ran McDonald's I would introduce hormone free big beef patties and sugar free buns because that is much better for you and not just about cheap profit like the current management, like the old days when it was about making burgers, not money"
i mean you could say that about any aspect of any company. Bottom line is you would probably run that company into the ground within 2 years.

orangekid said:
That doesn't make any sense. You are saying that if you ran this specific corporation you would not be in it for profit but you would basically just have crazy R&D going to "innovate"
You don't need a corporation or a logo or to run someone else's company for that, you just need money.
Your title is misleading, this is basically just "If you had 20 billion dollars in capital, what would you spend it on as far as R&D goes without trying to attain the most profit but just to be 'innovative'?"
In which case I would say Google Glass is basically what I'd be into, like set up a full AR network as picture in the awesome as hell sci fi book 'Daemon" by Daniel Suarez, and integrate that into your cell phone/communications and stuff.
And as to your claim that you can "run Apple better than Apple does" what you're actually saying is "In my opinion if I had all that capital made from not being original except maybe the very first iteration of the iPhone, I would spend it all not on what has made profit for me but on in what my opinion would be more "innovative" than what I consider the latest rendering of the iPhone to be"
It's the most arbitrary and subjective statement ever. I could just as easily say "If I ran McDonald's I would introduce hormone free big beef patties and sugar free buns because that is much better for you and not just about cheap profit like the current management, like the old days when it was about making burgers, not money"
i mean you could say that about any aspect of any company. Bottom line is you would probably run that company into the ground within 2 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are making hasty conclusions and clubbing different sentences of mine out of context! Oh my gawd! How is it difficult for people to understand the following simple point I am making!?
Let me break it down for you, Internet style:
1) Do you think Apple is making the best and most innovative product every year?
A) NO.
2) Why?
A) Clearly there isn't one feature on iPhone 5 that isn't already there elsewhere. They just caught up with others. No innovation, and I am a sad panda.
3) Do you think spending some money in a multibillion dollar company for innovation is a good idea?
A) Yes. It will help differentiate their product and add value to it so people find it worth buying.
4) Do you think that will reduce profits?
A) In the long term definitely not. In the short term, may be but given the size of the company it is clearly worth investing for R&D.
5) Did other companies make interesting innovations THAT APPLE hasn't made?
A) Hell yes.
And (5) is my point people! Stop blindly trying to defend a corporation you like and just hear me out once. All I am saying is, and I bet you will agree, is that Apple didn't improve upon their OS/product in certain aspects thereby leading to not the best of the breed. I agree it is subjective, but still it is probably agreeable to a lot. The whole UI is still the same as before. They use a single button to accomplish 10 different things. Press the button one way and you get the homescreen, another way and you get access to task manager, another way and voice control. that is not particularly a fun thing to do. And then the homescreen is near useless for productivity.
For the first few generations of iOS, they were fine. But as the OS refines, it should try to change some of the ailing aspects of it. But they aren't doing that. And I bet even people like you and me can come up with those things. Most improvements to iOS that were "cool" came from the Jailbreak community (the stuff on the lockscreen giving info about various things - they hired a Jailbreaker to code it into iOS)
So, give me a break when you defend a company. When an ordinary developer on XDA or elsewhere can themselves come up with an idea that seems obvious (I mean, right from day one I was frustrated that my iPod touch did nothing on the homescreen other than just show me a wallpaper) I think I have justified what I mean by even I can do better than Apple.
It is a figure of speech, damnit! Why don't you see that and take it at face value and instead think of me as arrogant. I am just a frustrated ex-iOS user who understands both sides and kinda hates seeing Apple dig its own grave, slowly.... Marketing can take you only so far when people realize that they aren't getting what they want from their phone... and of course, there are iSheep as well... anyway point made. See y'all!
---------------
Side note: So as a consumer, you rather have a company MAKE the MOST profit out of you rather than they innovate? Are you telling me you are a billionaire and you wish for these greedy corporations to take more of your hard-earned money and rip you off more easily? Doesn't sound look good advice to me.

litetaker said:
You are making hasty conclusions and clubbing different sentences of mine out of context! Oh my gawd! How is it difficult for people to understand the following simple point I am making!?
Let me break it down for you, Internet style:
1) Do you think Apple is making the best and most innovative product every year?
A) NO.
2) Why?
A) Clearly there isn't one feature on iPhone 5 that isn't already there elsewhere. They just caught up with others. No innovation, and I am a sad panda.
3) Do you think spending some money in a multibillion dollar company for innovation is a good idea?
A) Yes. It will help differentiate their product and add value to it so people find it worth buying.
4) Do you think that will reduce profits?
A) In the long term definitely not. In the short term, may be but given the size of the company it is clearly worth investing for R&D.
5) Did other companies make interesting innovations THAT APPLE hasn't made?
A) Hell yes.
And (5) is my point people! Stop blindly trying to defend a corporation you like and just hear me out once. All I am saying is, and I bet you will agree, is that Apple didn't improve upon their OS/product in certain aspects thereby leading to not the best of the breed. I agree it is subjective, but still it is probably agreeable to a lot. The whole UI is still the same as before. They use a single button to accomplish 10 different things. Press the button one way and you get the homescreen, another way and you get access to task manager, another way and voice control. that is not particularly a fun thing to do. And then the homescreen is near useless for productivity.
For the first few generations of iOS, they were fine. But as the OS refines, it should try to change some of the ailing aspects of it. But they aren't doing that. And I bet even people like you and me can come up with those things. Most improvements to iOS that were "cool" came from the Jailbreak community (the stuff on the lockscreen giving info about various things - they hired a Jailbreaker to code it into iOS)
So, give me a break when you defend a company. When an ordinary developer on XDA or elsewhere can themselves come up with an idea that seems obvious (I mean, right from day one I was frustrated that my iPod touch did nothing on the homescreen other than just show me a wallpaper) I think I have justified what I mean by even I can do better than Apple.
It is a figure of speech, damnit! Why don't you see that and take it at face value and instead think of me as arrogant. I am just a frustrated ex-iOS user who understands both sides and kinda hates seeing Apple dig its own grave, slowly.... Marketing can take you only so far when people realize that they aren't getting what they want from their phone... and of course, there are iSheep as well... anyway point made. See y'all!
---------------
Side note: So as a consumer, you rather have a company MAKE the MOST profit out of you rather than they innovate? Are you telling me you are a billionaire and you wish for these greedy corporations to take more of your hard-earned money and rip you off more easily? Doesn't sound look good advice to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My point is that from a business standpoint with that type of attitude you would run the company into the ground.
From an "innovative" standpoint those are your opinions on iOS, which mirror everyone who doesn't like iOS's opinions. We've heard it a million times from every user on these forums.
You disagree with how Apple is run, that's fine. But this is all arbitrary and subjective. There plenty of "intelligent" people who could provide a good argument for iOS 6 being better than JellyBean, starting with the malware ratio for one.
Every one of your questions/answers is arbitrary. That's why we have choices. Don't like iOS? buy Android. Don't like either? Buy WP8. Don't like one of those 3? Tough ****.
Let's go thru your checklist as an Apple fan would (you can see from my signature which phone I currently love to rock).
1) Yes, they always have the fastest CPU/GPU, the best battery life, the best DPI (except maybe a couple crazy ass Japanese phones), arguably the best camera only to be compared with PureView, and the best form factor.
2) Let's talk features. There was already no competitor for Siri on the 4S. S Voice utterly sucks and doesn't recognize what I say half the time. Google Now is kinda cool but doesn't talk back the same way as Siri does, now with iOS 6 update it takes it to a new level. The form factor is the best. Not cheap Samsung plastic, Aluminum + Glass on the back, squared form factor with a new elongated 4" screen that you can STILL easily hold and type with one hand. The A6 processor out benches even the new exynos quad core.
3) They have an R&D department...
4) If you spend too much on R&D and not enough on other things, then yes, you have to have the perfect balance like Apple.
5) Yes, just like Apple has made innovations that others haven't made. Hence choices...
You see, it can be argued either way.
Your opinion is that Apple isn't "innovative" same as most of the people on XDA, you're not bringing anything new to light. You're just saying you don't think Apple is "innovative"
That's fine, you can have your opinion, but that's all it is, opinion.
side note;
all of your side note is conjecture. You think Bill Gates and Eric Schmidt aren't in it for the money you are insane. But they also want to make cool **** I'm sure, just like Apple does.

orangekid said:
My point is that from a business standpoint with that type of attitude you would run the company into the ground.
From an "innovative" standpoint those are your opinions on iOS, which mirror everyone who doesn't like iOS's opinions. We've heard it a million times from every user on these forums.
You disagree with how Apple is run, that's fine. But this is all arbitrary and subjective. There plenty of "intelligent" people who could provide a good argument for iOS 6 being better than JellyBean, starting with the malware ratio for one.
Every one of your questions/answers is arbitrary. That's why we have choices. Don't like iOS? buy Android. Don't like either? Buy WP8. Don't like one of those 3? Tough ****.
Let's go thru your checklist as an Apple fan would (you can see from my signature which phone I currently love to rock).
1) Yes, they always have the fastest CPU/GPU, the best battery life, the best DPI (except maybe a couple crazy ass Japanese phones), arguably the best camera only to be compared with PureView, and the best form factor.
2) Let's talk features. There was already no competitor for Siri on the 4S. S Voice utterly sucks and doesn't recognize what I say half the time. Google Now is kinda cool but doesn't talk back the same way as Siri does, now with iOS 6 update it takes it to a new level. The form factor is the best. Not cheap Samsung plastic, Aluminum + Glass on the back, squared form factor with a new elongated 4" screen that you can STILL easily hold and type with one hand. The A6 processor out benches even the new exynos quad core.
3) They have an R&D department...
4) If you spend too much on R&D and not enough on other things, then yes, you have to have the perfect balance like Apple.
5) Yes, just like Apple has made innovations that others haven't made. Hence choices...
You see, it can be argued either way.
Your opinion is that Apple isn't "innovative" same as most of the people on XDA, you're not bringing anything new to light. You're just saying you don't think Apple is "innovative"
That's fine, you can have your opinion, but that's all it is, opinion.
side note;
all of your side note is conjecture. You think Bill Gates and Eric Schmidt aren't in it for the money you are insane. But they also want to make cool **** I'm sure, just like Apple does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright, I can agree with you here. Hmm... anyway, I really should think of a better topic to discuss on off-topic @xda. I kinda suck at picking good and "fun" things to argue about. Not even 3 pages, and already the debate here became heavy and I guess will eventually become pointless. Anyway, good to hear ur points too... I'm off to cooking up more light-hearted and probably more fun topics!
Up and away!

I'm only going to dispute one thing with you: the HTC Rezound has a higher PPI than the iPhone, and it certainly isn't some crazy Chinese phone lol.
iPhone 5 = 326PPI
Rezound = 342PPI
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app.

litetaker said:
Alright, I can agree with you here. Hmm... anyway, I really should think of a better topic to discuss on off-topic @xda. I kinda suck at picking good and "fun" things to argue about. Not even 3 pages, and already the debate here became heavy and I guess will eventually become pointless. Anyway, good to hear ur points too... I'm off to cooking up more light-hearted and probably more fun topics!
Up and away!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, every thread in this forum is pointless, and I argue just to argue half the time. Your topic was fine, I kinda just ran in a totally other direction with it.
If you just opened a thread saying "if you had a bagillion dollars what would you develop?" without using buzzwords like "iPhone" you'd do fine.
SteveG12543 said:
I'm only going to dispute one thing with you: the HTC Rezound has a higher PPI than the iPhone, and it certainly isn't some crazy Chinese phone lol.
iPhone 5 = 326PPI
Rezound = 342PPI
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Word. Forgot about the 4.3" 720p.
BUT I said Japanese, not Chinese. I win!!

Original crappy OP
The New OP was taken from this post. The original OP is here and the New OP from this post went to the OP making it the current OP
Well, it is a ballsy statement to say that one could run Apple better than someone experienced in the industry, especially since it is a multibillion dollar company. I say that smells.
Even I can run that company better and I have never, ever worked in an industry so far (unless you call interning at a company work experience).
It is not hard to see why. They are doing no innovation and 100% litigation. And all I see in their various products is upping the specs and prices and that's it. That is NOT innovation. It may be challenging to squeeze in more pixels in the same area, but guess WHAT. Apple didn't make that! It was hardworking other companies that manufacture better displays, better processors and chips that made that happen. Apple merely puts things together. In the light of this realization, we can clearly see that Apple did zilch, nada, शून्य, zéro, 零, нуль. No matter what language you speak, it will translate to "absolutely nothing". They did not improve the OS, just did minor tweaks or introduced features no one cares about (Siri, iMessages is a failure in implementation, facebook integration that I can do without, more facebook in my life != better life). Oh they added a new row of static and boring icons. If you see the jailbreak community, a good chunk of iOS users hate the interface and still stick with it. Beyond my understanding.
Oh, did I say absolutely nothing? My bad, I meant yes they did something alright - slow down an entire industry via litigation because "they couldn't come up with a new idea, boo-fricking-hoo!" It makes me think of the spoiled brat in the sandbox who fell down and wants to make others fall down too as he got hurt.
Side note: I never really thought Steve Jobs was involved in all the decisions made for the iPhone, but now it looks like he may have spear-headed the iPhone division after all. After he passed away, looks like the hard work he put in and the company he built is gonna die again (sad in some ways but also serves them right for bringing bad karma by suing Android and the Android device manufacturers).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Long story short, I want this thread to be innovative, wacky, weird and funny ideas for the following question:
What would you do differently, if you were the CEO of Apple?
Try to think without fanboy-ism. Imagine you were suddenly given control to this powerful corporation, you need no longer think about Android and all, so let your answer NOT be to destroy iOS and let Android win. Though that would be awesome. I want to see if we can come up with better products AND features in existing ones to warrant the name of this topic (which is we can run Apple better than Apple).
commence the scuffle!
orangekid said:
lol, every thread in this forum is pointless, and I argue just to argue half the time. Your topic was fine, I kinda just ran in a totally other direction with it.
If you just opened a thread saying "if you had a bagillion dollars what would you develop?" without using buzzwords like "iPhone" you'd do fine.
Word. Forgot about the 4.3" 720p.
BUT I said Japanese, not Chinese. I win!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, frankly they are Taiwanese! Whoops, you lose again!

+1 for the शून्य thing!

This forum has been overrun with Apple/iOS/iPhone threads lately. For the Android fan boys some of you claim to be, you seem extremely obsessed with Apple. I am not talking about any one person or group, just in general. js

litetaker said:
Ok. One of the points I meant by this WHOLE thread was NOT about how you can improve iOS or iPhone. Frankly there are way too many people who already postulated that on the whole of XDA and the interwebs.
I want to encourage people replying to this thread to put on their thinking caps, and think of what sort of futuristic product they can think of that may very well be a potential innovation from Apple. Not a phone, nor an iPad, nothing about iOS. Break free from that shackle. Steve always said that there is no way you can make a great product buy surveying the market and asking them what they want as consumers never know what they want until they see it and so you should think what will be the next revolution....
Soooooooooo...
The idea of this thread is this: (which got lost due to my frankly poor OP)
What would you say the next innovation is.
(P.S: I mention Apple in this thread a lot because traditionally they really where the pioneers of most major trends in electronics - Mac for GUI, then iPods then the in thing - smartphones with great GUI).
Soooooo, commence the scuffle!
Well, frankly they are Taiwanese! Whoops, you lose again!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol touche.
Well to answer you, I think Google Goggles used with AR in a sort of virtual world in plain site like that book Daemon would be pretty awesome.

is there a thread for "Why i hate android?" around here

deathnotice01 said:
is there a thread for "Why i hate android?" around here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes..should be somewhere around iphone-developers.com!
Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2

first thing that needs to b done is make it open source
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app