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Dear Microsoft,
I am writing this letter to ask permission for Xda-developers.com and it's users to officially use, develop, and share the new Wizard WM6 roms on this site. I know that you are currently not allowing us to do so. I believe it is in your best interest to let us. Here is why:
1) User Testing - allowing us to develop and share the WM6 rom for the wizard will open your product to a huge amount of testing. On this site, we don't just use our phones, we push them hard. We love to see the most we can get out of them. We get bored with what we have, so we load a new rom and see what it can do. 3 days later we load another. You will not find a better place on the Internet to test your roms.
Also, it will allow us to test compatibility with new and existing software. This site is already reference material for most software developers and even HTC. In our never-ending search for information about these devices we find things such as tricks to make them better, security holes, and all sorts of information that 3rd party companies can use.
All of this work is done by volunteers who, although they may gripe from time to time, feel a sense of satisfaction for doing this work. You can't buy their level of loyalty.
2) Goodwill - Allowing us to use, develop and share the WM6 rom will create a massive amount of goodwill on this site for your company. Since you are the biggest player in the game, you are currently subject to TONS of criticism everywhere you turn. People usually see you as this huge faceless corporation that wants to control people and take their money. I read the blogs of Microsoft employees and know this is really not the case. Allowing us to work on this rom openly will create goodwill that no ad campaign can buy.
3) Money - The bottom line is that you will save money. Money that might be spent on research will be saved by free research on this site. Money spent on ads to generate goodwill will be saved by the goodwill generated on this site.
I appreciate your consideration of this matter. Please let us know of your decision.
Sincerely,
texasaggie1
cool letter.. cant wait to see wat kind of responce you get.
Diddo.......Let's see if the big boss will let us play.
Great Letter Aggie. I would think the MS resposne would be pretty good about this. MS has been pretty good with other technologies lately in opening it up and taking feedbacks from users.
One thing is for sure. THERE IS NO OTHER PLACE BETTER THAN HERE TO TEST/TWEAK/BETTER WINDOWS MOBILE.
We do have a vast number of volunteers here that do a helluva job in making these roms faster and better.
What makes you think they aren't doing this already?
Where do you think this 'leaked' version originated from, anyway? And why is it literally painless to install?
MS has employees who actively troll this group (among others) to get feedback..good and bad...for their "pre-release" warez. They just lurk in the shadows (rightfully so, speaking up would make them the whipping boys of the forum...)
Since the hardware mfr and/or the service provider of the device is the one who decides whether or not to 'upgrade' your device with the latest and greatest OS (based heavily on whether or not they want to support multiple s/w versions) MS can't make any money off simply selling their product to the end user. Unlike the PC model of selling you a retail boxed version of a new operating system for your PC.
No money to be made = no money to be lost. Think about it.
All that being said, the most important thing to remember is that they will ACTIVELY shut down any site hosting their software without their permission. If they fail to enforce their copyrights by legal means, it further weakens any argument in future lawsuits regarding others who pirate their software. They will also quickly piss off the likes of t-mobile, cingular, and other service providers if they provide the end-user a means of bypassing their process of certifying the stability of their phones.
They will continue to operate in this way for a long time. They get free beta testing from 'hardcore users' while looking the other way. It's genius if you ask me!
!! Sweet !!
I would be very suprised if they gave this consideration, they will wait for the 'next gen' devices up to come to release it on in my opinion.
Besides we must face it, most people that are using these phones these days do not flash their device, nonetheless, know what it is.
We are the few flashing samurai that cannot live with a stock rom, and want to "juice" our hardware to get our money's worth. \m/
I will say If you live in the US now you will see that parents are buying their teenage kiddies smartphones/ppcs now for a couple reasons. 1) To ward off an appl music/video product, and of course. 2) To be able to reach them anywhere with the phone service.
It would have been funny to say that most people on this site are using/have used the wm6 leak already, so we might as well work together for free, for a learning purpose.
They need more of this for WM device settings...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2362050448778905490&q=steve+ballmer+remix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo
rizzo said:
What makes you think they aren't doing this already?
Where do you think this 'leaked' version originated from, anyway? And why is it literally painless to install?
MS has employees who actively troll this group (among others) to get feedback..good and bad...for their "pre-release" warez. They just lurk in the shadows (rightfully so, speaking up would make them the whipping boys of the forum...)
Since the hardware mfr and/or the service provider of the device is the one who decides whether or not to 'upgrade' your device with the latest and greatest OS (based heavily on whether or not they want to support multiple s/w versions) MS can't make any money off simply selling their product to the end user. Unlike the PC model of selling you a retail boxed version of a new operating system for your PC.
No money to be made = no money to be lost. Think about it.
All that being said, the most important thing to remember is that they will ACTIVELY shut down any site hosting their software without their permission. If they fail to enforce their copyrights by legal means, it further weakens any argument in future lawsuits regarding others who pirate their software. They will also quickly piss off the likes of t-mobile, cingular, and other service providers if they provide the end-user a means of bypassing their process of certifying the stability of their phones.
They will continue to operate in this way for a long time. They get free beta testing from 'hardcore users' while looking the other way. It's genius if you ask me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you might be right. But, aren't they allowing WM6 on the Universal? That may change the equation.
My gut feeling is that one or more of the ROM cookers in here works for M$. You don't know some of the things they do without having a lot more background knowledge than the average joe. There's nothing wrong with that, of course...that means better products for you and me.
I support Texasaggie1
Hi, i would like to support the request. It makes damn sense, I am an old-time Linux user and i think that Microsoft would show great marketing sense in allowing us to test it. I will not argue about the advantages and benefits,
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
pzucchel said:
Hi, i would like to support the request. It makes damn sense, I am an old-time Linux user and i think that Microsoft would show great marketing sense in allowing us to test it. I will not argue about the advantages and benefits,
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Thought is NO-ONE. As all we do is RUN these ROMS and Tweak them to perform in the best way that they can. All that everyone does here is readily available and can/could/HAS been adopted by Developers, Networks & Manufacturers alike.
jwzg said:
My gut feeling is that one or more of the ROM cookers in here works for M$. You don't know some of the things they do without having a lot more background knowledge than the average joe. There's nothing wrong with that, of course...that means better products for you and me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt any of the 'cookers' work for Microsoft. Although difficult, it's fairly common to reverse-engineer someone elses code and mold it into something that you want. Once you get the hang of how things work and make the script kiddie tools to do it, it's fairly simple.
One thing that a cooker can't do is write an entire OS then 'leak' it onto the internet and call it WM6, this is done by someone entrusted with copies of it for legitimate purposes. Blame HTC or any of the ODM's if you want, but it my opinion, it would be a waste of your time.
If you want to infect the world, you must spread your disease. MS has come a long way in this regard with the likes of gaining on Palm, RIM, symbian, etc.
Microsoft has always leveraged piracy to work in their favor...those that can't get the disease (or otherwise can't afford it) will have access to it. If you can't make the sale, might as well get them hooked fo' free!
pzucchel said:
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but I had to chime in on this one, too. Maybe some people don't see it, but we ARE actively beta testing their software.
If you develop software, and want to have beta testing do any good, there needs to be some kind of order. Visiting forums to find information is chaotic at best. Sifting through page after page of hijacked threads and RTFM type questions isn't going to yield the feedback a company needs to squash the bugs out of code. If enough people complain about a particular 'feature' then it might get the company to try and replicate it in-house, but its very unlikely that you'd ever hear anything back from them.
End-users modifying their devices by flashing it with unreleased firmware it wasn't originally designed for is dangerous, and can cause a ripple effect if it's not managed. As long as the company stands by its "hey, we never said this code was finished - not to mention you're not supposed to have it" stance, it can shield them from almost ALL liability in you bricking your phone. In the mean time, hardcore folks like us will continue shoving the bleeding-edge not-ready-ware into our phones in order to tell the tales of our adventures to all that will listen - and MS will continue "leaking" their warez into the wild.
The minute Microsoft starts bending these rules for folks like us, then they are going to have to answer to THEIR customers (HTC, network providers, etc) when the nOObs start flooding their call centers for warranty-return requests.
texasaggie1 said:
Dear Microsoft,
I am writing this letter to ask permission for Xda-developers.com and it's users to officially use, develop, and share the new Wizard WM6 roms on this site. I know that you are currently not allowing us to do so. I believe it is in your best interest to let us. Here is why:
1) User Testing - allowing us to develop and share the WM6 rom for the wizard will open your product to a huge amount of testing. On this site, we don't just use our phones, we push them hard. We love to see the most we can get out of them. We get bored with what we have, so we load a new rom and see what it can do. 3 days later we load another. You will not find a better place on the Internet to test your roms.
Also, it will allow us to test compatibility with new and existing software. This site is already reference material for most software developers and even HTC. In our never-ending search for information about these devices we find things such as tricks to make them better, security holes, and all sorts of information that 3rd party companies can use.
All of this work is done by volunteers who, although they may gripe from time to time, feel a sense of satisfaction for doing this work. You can't buy their level of loyalty.
2) Goodwill - Allowing us to use, develop and share the WM6 rom will create a massive amount of goodwill on this site for your company. Since you are the biggest player in the game, you are currently subject to TONS of criticism everywhere you turn. People usually see you as this huge faceless corporation that wants to control people and take their money. I read the blogs of Microsoft employees and know this is really not the case. Allowing us to work on this rom openly will create goodwill that no ad campaign can buy.
3) Money - The bottom line is that you will save money. Money that might be spent on research will be saved by free research on this site. Money spent on ads to generate goodwill will be saved by the goodwill generated on this site.
I appreciate your consideration of this matter. Please let us know of your decision.
Sincerely,
texasaggie1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agreed texasaggie1 said but dont forget in all devices rom ,MS just part of 70% of rom others 30% belong to HTC,T-mobile...etc, the reason we need to cook rom in here not really problem belong to MS that belong to HTC,
MS understand HTC was first OEM used Mobile window,but MS can understand why we need to cook rom in here ? do you hear anyone cook Window XP ? MS must understand device rom is different with Window XP,MS just proved PB and AKU ,device also need driver and some of OEM program otherwide device(phone) will not working,you can see in rom kithen had OS/LOC/OEM , SO belong to MS,LOC/OEM belong to HTC,T-Mobile..etc. this is different with window XP,if today all rom made by MS than no one can said anything,but not in this case ,we in here not only help MS also help HTC,T-Mobile...etc. too, they got how many free employees to worked with them,now Apple will come out IPhone ,I dont think MS want to lose market to them,we in here 100% support to MS , I dont understand what piont they refuse us ?
BA_Flash_GOD said:
I would be very suprised if they gave this consideration, they will wait for the 'next gen' devices up to come to release it on in my opinion.
Besides we must face it, most people that are using these phones these days do not flash their device, nonetheless, know what it is.
We are the few flashing samurai that cannot live with a stock rom, and want to "juice" our hardware to get our money's worth. \m/
I will say If you live in the US now you will see that parents are buying their teenage kiddies smartphones/ppcs now for a couple reasons. 1) To ward off an appl music/video product, and of course. 2) To be able to reach them anywhere with the phone service.
It would have been funny to say that most people on this site are using/have used the wm6 leak already, so we might as well work together for free, for a learning purpose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Good reply.
I know all of this is a long shot. But it's been bugging me lately. I had to post this letter.
Flashing/Testing New OS = Good Experience
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
BA_Flash_GOD said:
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry, please don't take this the wrong way. But this is one of the silliest ideas I have seen in a long time. Think for a moment about the support headaches from even 20% of their users playing with ROMS versus the 2-3% that do it now. And you think some of the NOOBS on here get annoying forget about regular users!!!
I think things are about perfect the way they are. A little "unofficial" help lets us hardcore users reap the benefits of upgrading with out the hassles. Trust me if ROM upgrades became more official they would kill groups like this. They would charge for the upgrades and they would want to control them like they do desktop OS upgrades. I say no thanks to that. It's like the early days of Napster, or more recently You Tube taking down tons of videos, those things were much better before they became mainstream and then they had to change.
I will say this. MS should figure out how to make the CID & SIM Lock a separate part of the rom like the radio and bootloader, make it totally separate from the Rom & Extended Rom itself. That would allow tweakers to change roms with out worrying about Locks and would make the phone companies happy too. And I am sure users that need unlocking would figure that out too
BA_Flash_GOD said:
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
anyone who wants to can use google. I seriously do not think that its neccesary to let the world know. they could know... if they wanted to. Bad idea imho.
rizzo said:
Sorry, but I had to chime in on this one, too. Maybe some people don't see it, but we ARE actively beta testing their software.
If you develop software, and want to have beta testing do any good, there needs to be some kind of order. Visiting forums to find information is chaotic at best. Sifting through page after page of hijacked threads and RTFM type questions isn't going to yield the feedback a company needs to squash the bugs out of code. If enough people complain about a particular 'feature' then it might get the company to try and replicate it in-house, but its very unlikely that you'd ever hear anything back from them.
End-users modifying their devices by flashing it with unreleased firmware it wasn't originally designed for is dangerous, and can cause a ripple effect if it's not managed. As long as the company stands by its "hey, we never said this code was finished - not to mention you're not supposed to have it" stance, it can shield them from almost ALL liability in you bricking your phone. In the mean time, hardcore folks like us will continue shoving the bleeding-edge not-ready-ware into our phones in order to tell the tales of our adventures to all that will listen - and MS will continue "leaking" their warez into the wild.
The minute Microsoft starts bending these rules for folks like us, then they are going to have to answer to THEIR customers (HTC, network providers, etc) when the nOObs start flooding their call centers for warranty-return requests.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry but I have to side with rizzo on this one. They will never officially come out and allow this because they can't. You are asking them to agree to a. Code leaking, b. Code theft, c. Software Piracy in a sense (since you have to not acquired a legal copy and have not paid licenses for it), d. Copyright infringement. What company in their right mind say yes to this and open up the flood gates? And like rizzo said allow them to be liable for consumer or partner lawsuits as well?
As much as I agree with the original heartfelt post, we say what we say for argument's sake. They have already responded numerous times by allowing this and turning a blind eye. Every now and then they complain, either because we did step on some toes or because they officially have to say this is not allowed. If they really tried, they could cause some serious legal trouble. They choose not to, for a all the reasons mentioned in the original post.
So don't ask the impossible. Don't expect windows to become an open source application or windows mobile to release official betas to the public (not for sometime anyway). Pigs just don't fly sorry.
I have to agree with Rizzo. Besides, Microsoft won't spend resources on releasing ROMs for old devices, giving them for free to users and then having no way to recover some of the investment, because the Wizard is being phased out. It doesn't make sense.
However Microsoft can open a program for betatesting their ROMs, that is completely possible. A program that involves registering every user that gets the ROM, once we agree not to ask for support and all the legal stuff. And provide the means to keep track of bug reporst, etc. But still if you want to beta test something, you want to do it on the device where it's intended to be used the final release, and I don't think our Wizards are going to get an official WM 6 upgrade.
It's a long shot
igalan said:
I have to agree with Rizzo. Besides, Microsoft won't spend resources on releasing ROMs for old devices, giving them for free to users and then having no way to recover some of the investment, because the Wizard is being phased out. It doesn't make sense.
However Microsoft can open a program for betatesting their ROMs, that is completely possible. A program that involves registering every user that gets the ROM, once we agree not to ask for support and all the legal stuff. And provide the means to keep track of bug reporst, etc. But still if you want to beta test something, you want to do it on the device where it's intended to be used the final release, and I don't think our Wizards are going to get an official WM 6 upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a long shot, but they do allow WM6 in the Universal thread. Maybe they will for us. Maybe we try again to post WM6 roms in a few weeks and see what happens??
Today, when I went to Sakajati's website to check the release of his new WM6.5 ROM, I was totally depressed and completely lost the mood to flash this brand new ROM, after I read this brief intro:
sakajati
May 4th, 2009 at 5:59 am
Sorry guys for being away, I’ve been under stress due to financial problem. The business is getting worse and worse, I’m afraid I won’t be able to support this website anymore and may also have to sell my device (God I hope this won’t happend). To all hyperdragon users, please consider to support/donate, it may help me so I don’t have to sell this crapy device. Thanks in advance! Enjoy this new rom and let me know for any bugs you found!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was exactly the same feeling when yesterday I passed by Mirko Schenk's website and read this:
I aten't ded (12/05/2008, 10:00 PM)
Yeah, I know, I'm a bit slow with updates recently. Somehow, when I wasn't missing free time, all too often I was missing motivation (no, that's not begging for donations) to struggly with the pitfalls of programming after I struggled with them in my job before. And this even though there's currently no girl friend that threadens me when I'd spend more time on my PC than with her. (But admitted, she'd probably wouldn't need to threaden me... )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sakajati, a famouse ROM cooker for Kaiser, his Hyperdragon ROM thread in this forum has received 11,178 repplies and 1,574,596 views up to now. Yes, not mistaken, it's more than 1.5 milllion views. Is he brilliant? The numbers speak for themselves.
Mirko Schenk, the name may not much known to public. But if I talk about Mort, every chefs here knows who he is. One of his small programs named 'Mortscript' is now cooked in many of the custom ROMs on this site. Is he brilliant? You can ask every chef here, I guess you'll get the same answer:'Yes, he is VERY brillant.'
These two guys are only examples of many of the brilliant stars here. They all have these two same characters as I know: First, their softwares are all FREE. I.e, they supply free service to pubic without asking any material support from users. Second, I am regret to say, they are all VERY POOR now.
Well, I believe, that the initial puppose of their developing these wares are not for money. I also believe that they would like to continue this cause even if they can not receive one single coin from it, even if they maintain a poor living condition for his own life, they just enjoy it.
On the other hand, have to say this: It is ULTIMATE FORTUNE for a man, that in his life he can find something he likes, he is good at, he did it, and finally he fighted to clime to top of the line. BUT, it is an ULTIMATE UNFORTUNE for him that after he did this, he only found his life is 'worsen and worsen'.
Yes a man's value is not only reallize his own joy, he also has to be responsible for his beloves, his family, his girlfiend, or even his pet. This is the reason they may decide to drop this loved cause and find something else to do. And finally they may be driven out from this society.
Now the question comes: Can we do something to rescue them out of this situation?
Yes, we can donate to their PayPal account.
BUT, to donate to a paypal account is not always convienient for everybody that want to help them.
Actually, there are other much better ways, but the forum rules here does not support it. Like this: Why not allow them to put a simple advertisement on their signature?
Like this one (I found in this thread):
iPhone ... its a maxipad without wings!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that viewers can support them by a simple click of their mouse, which will bring a small money for them? Say in Sakajati's case, he has 1.5 million viewers, onlyif 10% of viewers would make a click on the ad, and only if each click can just bring $0.1 for them. That will collect to an amount of $15,000. Which will greatly enhance their life, at lest let them keep the 'crapy device'.
Don't tell me this is impossible for this forum. We have so many super-smart brains here. Actually can set some rules or systems to avoid any 'side effects' of it, like rules on the size, layout, postion, etc of the ad. Who can use it, who can not etc.
Yes, this great forum place should become a worm home for all telents in this line.
MODs: Can you discuss on this issue?
First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.
Chainfire said:
First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank for your attention on tjis issue. There must be a solution for that, at least not 'completely impossible.
But the circut of money in 'ads' industry. Is just like 'everybody follow the rules here'.
Since the activities concerning 'advertising' may become a key factor in judgement of this issue. Here I add some more info. There are books about 'advertisement', or lots of internet materials available, but probably not everyone has time to read it. Let me just tell what is advertisement in this simple way:
The major target of ads is not to reach people who want the product, because people wants it already knows it. It is targeted to those people who doesn't want it, or even doesn't know it. Advertisement will let them know the product, and MAKE (sorry I use this word) them reallize that they want it.
This is why ads sponsors would be glad to pay even for a mouse click and a slight glance at what they are advertising. At least this make the clicker have a short memery about their brand name, or their product idea.
After read this, you may feel somehow uncomfortble about 'ads'. But sorry, this is just the prevailing commercial activity.
Please Post Your Comments on This Issue!
Anybody pass by here and reading this, if you have some opinion, comments, or different idea about this issue, please post here.
Maybe you are freeware developer, or commercial software developer, or common user, or moderator, it doesn't matter. What I'm thinking about is not trying to persuade the forum board to issue a new advertising policy, really need to be concerned is how to help those GREAT freeware developers OUT. Avertisement is just the best way that I can figure out by myself. But maybe you guys have better idea about this issue.
Here appeal to everybody:
If you are using a freeware, and find it's really helpful, or may bring additional conveineince and joy to your life. Please think about the life of the developer of the freeware. And first please consider a DONATION to them, if you can not, please think about what else you can do.
Everybody please leave your voice here, maybe we can work out a way together!
Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.
Chainfire said:
Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Certainly yours will be a nice place with lots of chef want to take a look. I went there and found some projects not known to me in the past. Before I only know WMWifiRouter's from you, later WMLongLife, but that's already enough to call you a Master. Now you're master++.
Also noted that you already sent donation confirmation code on Sakajati's site.
You built a nice blog.
Update (21 Nov):
Unfortunately, we could not even establish consensus whether there was a problem or not. Some argued that the GPS problems only reflect normal manufacturing quality variance and others thought that the problem is a result of bad design or bad quality control (way above acceptable levels).
One member, ehe12, started a facebook page: Here is the original post by ehe12:
"Dear All, I have created a facebook group called Samsung Galaxy S GPS Issue, if you can all join and talk? Thanks. Also is there a way on facebook to vote? I will raise a vote for good/bad gps as well."
----------------------
original post:
Hi, like many of you I am very disappointed about the GPS performance. I am moving to the US next year from Europe and bought what I thought was the best android phone. I wanted to have on the go internet, email, camera and navigation. The last point is very important both for driving (I bought copilot US) and walking around in US cities or towns.
I tried every GPS "fix" recommendation and have maximized my SGS's GPS performance. However, the best I can get is still way below usefulness/expectations. Two service requests to Samsung for comments remained unanswered.
I am a strategy Prof at a business school and I hate the thought of consumers not having any power over companies. I am afraid Samsung may get away with ignoring old problems and releasing new phones instead thus driving the consumption spiral rather than focusing on optimizing existing platforms. Their strategy might be that we all (or new customers) will not be able to resist the temptation to just buy the new SGS version and throw away our "old" SGSi9000 next year. I think we could do something more proactive to let them feel that this might have costs, e.g. reputation effects, unwillingness to buy Samsung again and potential negative spillover to other Samsung product lines etc.
I know this is not a development thread. But we are all users not just developers. Perhaps some useful idea about how to engage Samsung powerfully, yet constructively comes out of this discussion?
Thanks, Chris
Flash mob of phone calls to their tech support centers?
that might just annoy their poor service center employees - I think we need something that gets senior management attention.
Totally agree with you.
I hate the fact that some users are just saying all phones have their faults and to deal with it. Yes is true all phones have thier fault but they should be supporting their users.
This is what samsung wants to hear, with enough pressure am sure samsung will act. How is the question
The best thing would be to get some of the big sites like Engadget or ArsTechnica report on this issue. That would get Samsung's attention.
I have tried calling their customer service centres a few times and it was a painful experience.
great idea! mobile phones are "experience goods", i.e. you need to buy it to find out how good it is. so some main drivers for purchase decisions are general reputation ("Samsung is known to produce good stuff..."); test and reviews in general and specialized media; recommendations from friends and virtual communities etc. this may be the weak point of Samsung.
However, our prime objective should be to get Samsung to produce better technology and give us better phones NOT to ruin their reputation etc. so we need a powerful - yet constructive - approach. maybe we could strategize and think through our options with someone form Engadget et al.? anyone has contacts to these guys?
darkoroje said:
The best thing would be to get some of the big sites like Engadget or ArsTechnica report on this issue. That would get Samsung's attention.
I have tried calling their customer service centres a few times and it was a painful experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't that done already?
Samsung need to know how many people the poor gps problem affects. If someone could go to endgadget/gsm arena and say that there is still X amount of people with poor gps performance and point the finger showing the not every hansdset suffers so its some sort of manufacturing issue surely samsung would have to respond. (maby create a facebook group/online petition or something similar)
This is worse than the iphone4 problem as at least apple new it affected every handset, where this doesnt. Just highlights to me a pooor manufacturing process.
pau1200 said:
Samsung need to know how many people the poor gps problem affects. If someone could go to endgadget/gsm arena and say that there is still X amount of people with poor gps performance and point the finger showing the not every hansdset suffers so its some sort of manufacturing issue surely samsung would have to respond. (maby create a facebook group/online petition or something similar)
This is worse than the iphone4 problem as at least apple new it affected every handset, where this doesnt. Just highlights to me a pooor manufacturing process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One suspects that Samsung already knows how many people are affected and perhaps they just do not want to admit publicly that their QA processes are completely f'ed up.
My opinion about Engadget - it appears they created the perception that Samsung is aware of the issues and has solved them by now. Otherwise it is hard to explain why millions of SGSs are still sold around the world.
This implies that a) people don't know, b) people think this is a minor issue, c) people think the problem has been solved etc
I think a public story or update about what really happened in the last 4 months is due - this would also include the Kies disaster, serious lags due to an innapropriate file system, and the lack of proactive communication with their global customer base.
In a way they really get it wrong - people here at XDA love to play with the software. Thus, having some minor flaws in a phone is great b/c it builds and legitimizes a community of super creative and smart people. Why not work closely with them as a company and co-create new firmware, apps etc....
How about everybody flooding twitter with "Samsung Galaxy Gps Faulty" or summits along them lines. It only takes five thousand tweets to make the top ten. I think if we all manage to get all our contacts to re tweet it we can get in the top ten. That might be a better way of getting the problem noticed and maybe get some media attention.
Plus Samsung seem quite vocal on twitter, maybe they will take note.
Sent From My GT-Iphone-killer almost.
A lot can talk the talk, but how many can walk the walk?
It takes about 5 seconds to click on the "Tip Us" link on engaget... If your GPS is flawed, why don't you do it? You might get more of Engadget / samsung's attention if you start by TIPING THEM ON THE ISSUE!
You really have to be taken by the hand and shown the way aren't y'all?
Good point and I have just filled in the tip us form. Now if more people do the same we may get a story
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
just did the same
I've just done the tip us thing too, if we get enough people to do this maybe we can get some attention to the problem and a definitive answer from samsung!
Everybody get everyone to fill it in!
have also tipped them
maybe it'll be a good idea to change the post title or create a separate one entirely so that the users of this forum can also tip them if they have the problem too.
Tip us counter?
deleted - makes no sense
one concern - are we alienating engadget with this?
I think the "tip us" function is meant to provide news not complaints.
I suggest the following:
Lets start a new thread entitled "Join us to get Samsung's attention" or something like that. We start a list of user names - anyone can add his/her name to extend the list - once the list has more than 100 names we send it to Engadget and start a new list - every 100 names creates a new email to Engagdet and I suggest that we send it to Josh, the editor in chief directly.
what do you think?
Petition Online?
what about using http://petitiononline.com/ ? you guys think it'd worth a shot?
I will also do anything the community is involved in. I have tipped.
Does any of you guys know any company's willing to give me a review product like Htc or Lg or any phone company? If there's a email you know I can contact let me know!
They don't just give them out to people. You need to be a recognised and known name in some sort of journalist or tech field - something relevant. Unless you've been a tech journalist, or something similar, for years then seriously, start saving up instead. It will be quicker and the time is gonna pass anyway.
HTC Elevate offers the opportunity to get new devices ahead of a public release, but again, they don't just hand those devices out to just anyone. It's mainly to test the device and report issues to HTC so they can square away hardware and software problems prior to releasing the device. You can find out more by going to the link below.
https://elevate.htc.com/intake/1
Magnum_Enforcer said:
HTC Elevate offers the opportunity to get new devices ahead of a public release, but again, they don't just hand those devices out to just anyone. It's mainly to test the device and report issues to HTC so they can square away hardware and software problems prior to releasing the device. You can find out more by going to the link below.
https://elevate.htc.com/intake/1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank do you happen to have an extra code to access?
Evnul000 said:
Thank do you happen to have an extra code to access?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.
I've been member of Elevate for a couple years now and from what I've gathered they don't do field-testing anymore. Not even with software. They stopped doing it because everything got leaked afaik, basically the only things on there right now are;
1. Early but already public info
2. giveaways by competing surveys (pretty uncommon)
3. giveaways through 'share-this'-activities (basically advertising for HTC on your own social media, a little more common)
4. forums to talk with fellow elevate members
there's also meetups around the world, but I've never participated because even the closest one is too far for me to just hop over. I think what they do at these meet-ups is just talk and have a drink together. Only at launch events (which you can be invited to through Elevate) you get to see new phones
And if you want a 'review unit' of anything, you gotta be a reviewer with a nice number of followers first.
I apologize for the title, but this is relevant to Oneplus 10 Pro.
On approx Nov 12th last month, i joined heavily in the discussion regarding Region changing, or using MSM Tool to flash a different fw for our devices. That same day i successfully jumped from the 2419 Tmobile branded fw, to the 2415 Global FW, without a hitch. I then immediately posted success replies to those who were interested. In the 1st full reply regarding my process, i identified several "requirements" in both editing an accompanying file, as well as which version(s) were needed in order to do the jumps. Exactly 3 days later, OPPO took down their official posting that linked to the Rollback packages, and the Beta 1 Android 13 builds to download including the local update apks needed. Seamlessly they linked an identical page with NEW links to download, that had the same names almost. (i have screenshots of the file size differences for proof) ... but almost 70% of you all who attempted my instructions, but downloaded the UPDATED packages, resulted in a bootloop, or unresponsive device!
1st... im sorry for that! When i hard linked the files that i KNEW worked, i never expected oneplus to be sneaky and change the contents, but keep my links headed to these newer packages... I just really did not fathom a company which we all used to support, turning against us in an act of really sinister nature. They had to be aware that once these files were changed out, it would create numerous bootloops and bricks, yet they would not provide us an Unbrick method.
I addressed the altered files swiftly once i verified the changes, and then began urging people to be careful and also realize that there were new things that were done to the FW and i did not have any ideas how they would react, especially on the Tmobile Variants of the 10 Pro and 10 T... but i made THIS FORUM, my ground zero because doing the same method WORKED on the 10 Pro... but after a few modifications, i was stuck in the Unresponsive Brick state ppl were encountering.
(My 10T still worked like a champ though, which confused me as usually OLDER devices have less structural security than newer ones, and the 10 pro was almost a year older!! To Assume something makes an A** of U & ME.)
So with this forum as ground zero, it was where i was focusing probably close to 30-40 hrs a week, trying to troubleshoot and collaborate with other Devs/users about methods to break the MSM TOOL Authentication, so we would all have a WORKING, UNBRICK TOOL, that no one had to send some person a crypto payment to then let them log into your computer! (Stranger Danger!!!!)
It seemed like every time we had SOME MEASURE of success, either by luck, or even finding an alternative tool not meant for this device, that was capable of a successful flash.... we were instantly "knee-capped" by a sniper, and either the new tool no longer functioned properly or it outright broke.... (Secrecy Tool... used to unlock crucial Engineering Mode sections got blucked thru the instructed installation, with no new solution.... which also somehow there are screenshots of an Engineering app, RUNNING ON A ONEPLUS 10 Pro, that had 3 or 4 more options than we do.... hmmm) Anyways just one example of an OPPO intervention.
I have helped with SAMSUNG Root exploits that were SERIOUS flaws, and it took Samsung a few weeks to try patching... BUT I KNOW that BBK, with all the 40 different devices released each year, DOES NOT have a team dedicated to scouring for OUR semi-glitchy NON WORKING theories. (1st clue)
Anyways, here is the main point.... About 2 weeks ago i revealed that i was going ALL IN on finding a way to give us an MSM Flash tool that would bypass all the login stuff and let us do a local UNBRICK FLASH. I gave a few too many clues as to what my Goal Line was looking at. In about 24 hrs i was sent a "Cease and Desist Order" via email, to an address that is not associated to either THIS account on XDA, nor ANY account connected to the Oneplus Community. It was an address linked to a Qualcomm Developer profile i created, and another Android development site. Yet that site doesn't have any info linking to XDA. (2nd clue)
After the 1st order i got... i received a less formal , but just as direct email, from BBK/Oppo requesting that i stop ANY reverse engineering activity that they are now aware of my actions, and failure to comply, or if a release of any tool that had identifying data which could be proven as OPPO programming tools, they would refer my actions to the Department of Justice, cyber crimes division. I TOOK THAT ONE SERIOUSLY, and notified my family attorney! .... I then just within the past 48 hours posted some updates, as well as theories regarding other NON-ASSOCIATED programs that were readily available , and created by the manufacturer Qualcomm.... (because they cannot come at me, for apps that EVERYONE already can dl.... ) WELL UPDATE: Yesterday 12/26 around 9:39pm Central i received another FORMAL "Cease and Desist Order" from Oppo/BBK... but this time it was informing me that they intend to press Qualcomm into filing an official complaint against me, for "Copyright Infringement" , and "Illegally Accessing Unauthorized Applications by Qualcomm, to Reverse Engineer their security" ... <=== my lawyer laughed at this one.... but im not... and now i must tell you that "officially" i cannot release a public tool, if in fact i am able to mitigate their security. Under the "Bug Bounty" Programs offered by both Google, and Qualcomm, I have FULL AUTHORITY to continue researching the same thing i was doing prior to the letters. Oppo cannot TRUMP both Qualcomm, and Google who expressly approve hackers and security testers WITHOUT RESTRICTION, to do whatever we have to, in order to break their respective programs, AS LONG AS I USE THE FAIR REPORTING PRACTICES, AND NOTIFY THEM OF THE BUG/EXPLOIT FOUND... and then Once they acknowledge receipt of the complete process, a 90-day counter begins, and UNTIL THAT EXPIRES, i am not allowed to disclose, ,or discuss any specifics regarding what i have found, in order to give them adequate time to patch/replace the vulnerable process/application.
NOW HERE IS WHY I AM WRITING THIS NOTICE.... I was contacted BY VOICE, by a Qualcomm Technical Support Administrator, who was actually trying to reach out to THE PERSON WHO REPORTED ME TO OPPO.... TMOBILE ..... GOOGLE AND QUALCOMM.!!!!
I played along and when they asked me about what i was trying to report exactly, i asked them to read me back just what i had sent them , because I was "busy over the past few days, and had made several reports, so i needed a refresh of which report it was...."
They read me back THE ENTIRE EMAIL, including the header, which stated the Email address, as well as the Username (???) and then in the first sentence, they said, "Hello.... I'm sorry to contact you this way, but i did not locate any other means of contact to report criminal activity being performed on your applications and devices. My name is <XDA-NAME> ,and im a member at XDA-Developers, who has seen some alarming discussions regarding your newest Smartphone processor, and also the applications you use to interact with them... I cant go into too much detail here, because it would take much more than i feel comfortable typing, but it is urgent that you contact me regarding the XDA USER: "Beatbreakee" . I have acquired his contact email, and phone from online public data channels, and i will include those at the bottom, but you need to act fast and stop this hacker, before he creates a serious security risk in your company!"
Followed by a jumble of Email addresses... only 1 which was mine.... and several phone numbers from WAY BACK... that i havent had in years, but also one current number... which they mistakenly called ME instead of him.
So i first off want this to be noted that i have ZERO intention of revealing who the "Concerned Citizen" was that felt that my usage of the READILY AVAILABLE DOWNLOADS of QPST, and QXDM were of such a nefarious intent! So plz dont ask, because i dont Dox people.... I leave that to politicians and tv journalists....
I just wanted everyone who takes the time to read this, to be AWARE that you really cannot trust ANYONE you dont have a good repertoire with... and be advised that some of the people who ask for help, and also have EXTREMELY SPECIFIC questions pertaining to some thing youre discussing, may have totally malicious intentions as to how they use the info you tell them.
All i can say is that the user REALLY reported me, BECAUSE I WAS BOISTEROUSLY EXCLAIMING THAT I INTEND TO BUILD A FREE, OFFLINE, UNBRICK TOOL, TO STOP THE EXTORTION BY PPL WHO HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO CHARGE US FOR A SOLUTION WHICH SHOULD BE FREE.....
In other words, they snitched me out so i wouldnt hurt their gestapo over fixing our phones..... (Kinda trashy.... dontcha think!)
But thats all the details i can provide ... sorry i wont break America , any more than it already is.... So you get to stay in the shadows PERSON.... But you should know that NOW i have the green light to use any available programs/software within public domain, in order to achieve my intended goal.... because all i have to do is make the report to QualComm because THEY INVENTED AND DO THE CODING FOR THE MSMTOOL.... NOT OPPO! ..... good try! (oh and i told them EXACTLY what i was attempting to do, which is how i learned of their bug bounty... and they not only were not concerned... but they laughed because the versions we have around on the internet, are SEVERAL YEARS behind the current tools, and are neutered enough to not pose a security risk!)
So i will continue to work diligently people... but if i find success, i wont be able to give any disclosure other than confirmation, and then it will take 90 days before i can actually say something legally! This sucks, cuz we need the tool NOW.... and the Oneplus 11 is being released In January in China! (Yikes)
ok thats all.... Happy New Year everyone...... (including the person who wants our devices to stay bricked unless we pay them!)
If they sue you, just defend yourself saying that they are doing illegal activity also by blocking the user device to be repaired by third party.
This in America and Europe is illegal so they can't do anything about it.
I really wanna take a guess and say that the "certain someone" once ran around here proudly proclaiming that MSM can never be hacked and we must always pay.
This is disgusting. Make sure to forward this post to all the tech blogs and get some proof over to some people (redacted obviously). OnePlus/Oppo need to be taken to task for this. The fact that they intentionally changed packages in order to brick people trying to change regions is actually something they can be sued to oblivion for and you have all the proof. A company cannot knowingly cause damage to someone's property like that.
Also, this cements my choice to never have anything to do with OnePlus again.
That really sucks. It's probably that OppoTech123 scammer who claims to be illegally leaking OPPO MSM tools, just to charge you to use it.
g96818 said:
That really sucks. It's probably that OppoTech123 scammer who claims to be illegally leaking OPPO MSM tools, just to charge you to use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It absolutely is. There's nobody else who would gain from this that has been participating in those threads. I mean... the username is literally OppoTech...
Ph0nysk1nk said:
I really wanna take a guess and say that the "certain someone" once ran around here proudly proclaiming that MSM can never be hacked and we must always pay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
unfortunately i cant really confirm or deny anyone... but i will point out this... look into the thread on our 10 Pro forum, where i dropped what ive tried... completed... how i came up with the idea... who helped me in the right direction, and what i was planning as my next steps... Then you will be able to get a list of users who you can each do your own sleuthing.
Again this is not to identify the person directly... but if I was someone who felt deceived or wanted to know who i could eliminate from my conversations and dm's when they REPEATEDLY ask the same or similar questions in other XDA forums for other devices by the same mfg.... I would compile a list of everyone in that thread, then cross off every name that i know has a good rep here, all of the ppl that i have a history with... followed by any names of members who are moderators, or have threads of their own which they provided FREE, instructions/applications for helping remove or mitigate some form of restriction. (root... custom kernel... rom.... bootloader... etc) and then the list of remaining names should be pretty short. Finally take out any SENIOR members, because most ppl who reach that status are OG and not a heartless CASH GRABBER who is only here to spy for his clan of thieves, extorting ppl in need of assistance. Finally take the final few names, and check out all of their posts and replies to see if they follow a pattern , and also if they are only on threads of devices by the same manufacturer.
Any names beyond all those categories, i would NOT do DM's with, or reply directly to any informational requests from those users. ESPECIALLY if they advocate some form of payment to themselves for services that are requested in Crypto. All red flags, and reason for suspicion. But thats just my opinion of how i would decipher and determine exactly who i will stay away from. But actually its worse, because NOW weve been informed that we have ppl here who will sabotage and drop FALSE accusations in formal reports to companies, just so they can keep making $100 a week, by eliminating the people who are working on a "Free For All" solution....
Just sayin'
I mean REALLY... they straight up called me a "Malicious Hacker", who is trying to destroy the security of all their devices! .... How am i trying to destroy ANYTHING? When im actually just trying to give users a reason to still buy OnePlus devices.
Cuz when they release the 11 in a few months... i truly believe their sales are gonna decline almost 10% worldwide! And MAYBE if the company saw that several community members were working on ways to make a tool that FIXES the issue they created... they might rethink their rollout and drop us a repair tool when it drops...
It has been a long time since I have participated in any forum at all, but this, oh my god THIS.. it is on an another level.
First of all, many thanks to you and to all members who are trying very hard to give free of charge support, and fk these trash companies. Your times and efforts are appreciated.
I was deeply involved in the warez long time ago, and I just want to say that cracking/patching the MSM tool is not that hard. In fact, it is a very easy process compared to what I have experienced and witnessed with more complicated protections. It takes one dedicated releasing group to do the job once and for all.
I hope that one group will see this post, take it personally (which they usually do xD) and give OP and its team who is certainly reading the treatment they deserve.
This post proves that they are going for the money, nothing else. Hope people who said the rubbish bla bla bla of protecting devices, security issues, etc will change their bunk mindsets.
Thanks again, and hope you will be safe.
Gamenexus, LTT, UnboxTherapy should receive this info.
They reach a great amount of people and then it will have some repercussion.
And as I said, if they do anything just do it back, the amout you're gonna receive is far bigger.
beatbreakee said:
I apologize for the title, but this is relevant to Oneplus 10 Pro.
On approx Nov 12th last month, i joined heavily in the discussion regarding Region changing, or using MSM Tool to flash a different fw for our devices. That same day i successfully jumped from the 2419 Tmobile branded fw, to the 2415 Global FW, without a hitch. I then immediately posted success replies to those who were interested. In the 1st full reply regarding my process, i identified several "requirements" in both editing an accompanying file, as well as which version(s) were needed in order to do the jumps. Exactly 3 days later, OPPO took down their official posting that linked to the Rollback packages, and the Beta 1 Android 13 builds to download including the local update apks needed. Seamlessly they linked an identical page with NEW links to download, that had the same names almost. (i have screenshots of the file size differences for proof) ... but almost 70% of you all who attempted my instructions, but downloaded the UPDATED packages, resulted in a bootloop, or unresponsive device!
1st... im sorry for that! When i hard linked the files that i KNEW worked, i never expected oneplus to be sneaky and change the contents, but keep my links headed to these newer packages... I just really did not fathom a company which we all used to support, turning against us in an act of really sinister nature. They had to be aware that once these files were changed out, it would create numerous bootloops and bricks, yet they would not provide us an Unbrick method.
I addressed the altered files swiftly once i verified the changes, and then began urging people to be careful and also realize that there were new things that were done to the FW and i did not have any ideas how they would react, especially on the Tmobile Variants of the 10 Pro and 10 T... but i made THIS FORUM, my ground zero because doing the same method WORKED on the 10 Pro... but after a few modifications, i was stuck in the Unresponsive Brick state ppl were encountering.
(My 10T still worked like a champ though, which confused me as usually OLDER devices have less structural security than newer ones, and the 10 pro was almost a year older!! To Assume something makes an A** of U & ME.)
So with this forum as ground zero, it was where i was focusing probably close to 30-40 hrs a week, trying to troubleshoot and collaborate with other Devs/users about methods to break the MSM TOOL Authentication, so we would all have a WORKING, UNBRICK TOOL, that no one had to send some person a crypto payment to then let them log into your computer! (Stranger Danger!!!!)
It seemed like every time we had SOME MEASURE of success, either by luck, or even finding an alternative tool not meant for this device, that was capable of a successful flash.... we were instantly "knee-capped" by a sniper, and either the new tool no longer functioned properly or it outright broke.... (Secrecy Tool... used to unlock crucial Engineering Mode sections got blucked thru the instructed installation, with no new solution.... which also somehow there are screenshots of an Engineering app, RUNNING ON A ONEPLUS 10 Pro, that had 3 or 4 more options than we do.... hmmm) Anyways just one example of an OPPO intervention.
I have helped with SAMSUNG Root exploits that were SERIOUS flaws, and it took Samsung a few weeks to try patching... BUT I KNOW that BBK, with all the 40 different devices released each year, DOES NOT have a team dedicated to scouring for OUR semi-glitchy NON WORKING theories. (1st clue)
Anyways, here is the main point.... About 2 weeks ago i revealed that i was going ALL IN on finding a way to give us an MSM Flash tool that would bypass all the login stuff and let us do a local UNBRICK FLASH. I gave a few too many clues as to what my Goal Line was looking at. In about 24 hrs i was sent a "Cease and Desist Order" via email, to an address that is not associated to either THIS account on XDA, nor ANY account connected to the Oneplus Community. It was an address linked to a Qualcomm Developer profile i created, and another Android development site. Yet that site doesn't have any info linking to XDA. (2nd clue)
After the 1st order i got... i received a less formal , but just as direct email, from BBK/Oppo requesting that i stop ANY reverse engineering activity that they are now aware of my actions, and failure to comply, or if a release of any tool that had identifying data which could be proven as OPPO programming tools, they would refer my actions to the Department of Justice, cyber crimes division. I TOOK THAT ONE SERIOUSLY, and notified my family attorney! .... I then just within the past 48 hours posted some updates, as well as theories regarding other NON-ASSOCIATED programs that were readily available , and created by the manufacturer Qualcomm.... (because they cannot come at me, for apps that EVERYONE already can dl.... ) WELL UPDATE: Yesterday 12/26 around 9:39pm Central i received another FORMAL "Cease and Desist Order" from Oppo/BBK... but this time it was informing me that they intend to press Qualcomm into filing an official complaint against me, for "Copyright Infringement" , and "Illegally Accessing Unauthorized Applications by Qualcomm, to Reverse Engineer their security" ... <=== my lawyer laughed at this one.... but im not... and now i must tell you that "officially" i cannot release a public tool, if in fact i am able to mitigate their security. Under the "Bug Bounty" Programs offered by both Google, and Qualcomm, I have FULL AUTHORITY to continue researching the same thing i was doing prior to the letters. Oppo cannot TRUMP both Qualcomm, and Google who expressly approve hackers and security testers WITHOUT RESTRICTION, to do whatever we have to, in order to break their respective programs, AS LONG AS I USE THE FAIR REPORTING PRACTICES, AND NOTIFY THEM OF THE BUG/EXPLOIT FOUND... and then Once they acknowledge receipt of the complete process, a 90-day counter begins, and UNTIL THAT EXPIRES, i am not allowed to disclose, ,or discuss any specifics regarding what i have found, in order to give them adequate time to patch/replace the vulnerable process/application.
NOW HERE IS WHY I AM WRITING THIS NOTICE.... I was contacted BY VOICE, by a Qualcomm Technical Support Administrator, who was actually trying to reach out to THE PERSON WHO REPORTED ME TO OPPO.... TMOBILE ..... GOOGLE AND QUALCOMM.!!!!
I played along and when they asked me about what i was trying to report exactly, i asked them to read me back just what i had sent them , because I was "busy over the past few days, and had made several reports, so i needed a refresh of which report it was...."
They read me back THE ENTIRE EMAIL, including the header, which stated the Email address, as well as the Username (???) and then in the first sentence, they said, "Hello.... I'm sorry to contact you this way, but i did not locate any other means of contact to report criminal activity being performed on your applications and devices. My name is <XDA-NAME> ,and im a member at XDA-Developers, who has seen some alarming discussions regarding your newest Smartphone processor, and also the applications you use to interact with them... I cant go into too much detail here, because it would take much more than i feel comfortable typing, but it is urgent that you contact me regarding the XDA USER: "Beatbreakee" . I have acquired his contact email, and phone from online public data channels, and i will include those at the bottom, but you need to act fast and stop this hacker, before he creates a serious security risk in your company!"
Followed by a jumble of Email addresses... only 1 which was mine.... and several phone numbers from WAY BACK... that i havent had in years, but also one current number... which they mistakenly called ME instead of him.
So i first off want this to be noted that i have ZERO intention of revealing who the "Concerned Citizen" was that felt that my usage of the READILY AVAILABLE DOWNLOADS of QPST, and QXDM were of such a nefarious intent! So plz dont ask, because i dont Dox people.... I leave that to politicians and tv journalists....
I just wanted everyone who takes the time to read this, to be AWARE that you really cannot trust ANYONE you dont have a good repertoire with... and be advised that some of the people who ask for help, and also have EXTREMELY SPECIFIC questions pertaining to some thing youre discussing, may have totally malicious intentions as to how they use the info you tell them.
All i can say is that the user REALLY reported me, BECAUSE I WAS BOISTEROUSLY EXCLAIMING THAT I INTEND TO BUILD A FREE, OFFLINE, UNBRICK TOOL, TO STOP THE EXTORTION BY PPL WHO HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO CHARGE US FOR A SOLUTION WHICH SHOULD BE FREE.....
In other words, they snitched me out so i wouldnt hurt their gestapo over fixing our phones..... (Kinda trashy.... dontcha think!)
But thats all the details i can provide ... sorry i wont break America , any more than it already is.... So you get to stay in the shadows PERSON.... But you should know that NOW i have the green light to use any available programs/software within public domain, in order to achieve my intended goal.... because all i have to do is make the report to QualComm because THEY INVENTED AND DO THE CODING FOR THE MSMTOOL.... NOT OPPO! ..... good try! (oh and i told them EXACTLY what i was attempting to do, which is how i learned of their bug bounty... and they not only were not concerned... but they laughed because the versions we have around on the internet, are SEVERAL YEARS behind the current tools, and are neutered enough to not pose a security risk!)
So i will continue to work diligently people... but if i find success, i wont be able to give any disclosure other than confirmation, and then it will take 90 days before i can actually say something legally! This sucks, cuz we need the tool NOW.... and the Oneplus 11 is being released In January in China! (Yikes)
ok thats all.... Happy New Year everyone...... (including the person who wants our devices to stay bricked unless we pay them!)
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So I'm a Qualcomm developer with licensing and I would like to talk to you for one I have information in code that you probably can use for your benefit I am personally not able to do this as I don't have a running computer at the moment I get a hold of me in private message and I can add you on discord we can talk and under no circumstances is a vendor have rights to software that is not made by them nor by their use of it or even the restriction of it is against Qualcomm licensing like I'm his bypass tools for the login information flash tools such as the MSM tool but then they solves have stopped using it back in 2016 and 2017 they're using a different type of tool now which I will not say publicly but if you want more information get a hold of me (then it was designed to be free and it should remain free that is the whole point of Open source development.
One more thing I did back up the any version of the file they switched cuz I'm noticing what you're talking about so when I go to my about phone section where it says color OS is completely different fun and completely changed plus the weight scaling font is no longer called the one font but oppo so if you need me to link the Google drive file so you can have access to the one that works cuz I used your method I have a hard copy for the na 2417 version
That is just messed up ...Its funny i went on XDA today and had a PM asking if it was me who reported you...I thought to myself who would report anybody for trying to figure out a way to help everyone who has or have a Xucked up Oneplus
phone . I have killed my phone many times to help figure this out. I have actually paid for someone to flash my phone and try to log all the info. Illegal maybe ..but would be worth it ...to get a MSM working tool to fix our phones.
Oh by the way I hope you Figure this MSM tool out ...I would help if I could code and stuff like what you do. Thumbs UP to you
Canuck Knarf said:
That is just messed up ...Its funny i went on XDA today and had a PM asking if it was me who reported you...I thought to myself who would report anybody for trying to figure out a way to help everyone who has or have a Xucked up Oneplus
phone . I have killed my phone many times to help figure this out. I have actually paid for someone to flash my phone and try to log all the info. Illegal maybe ..but would be worth it ...to get a MSM working tool to fix our phones.
Oh by the way I hope you Figure this MSM tool out ...I would help if I could code and stuff like what you do. Thumbs UP to you
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If you're running a computer I didn't know how to code I just don't have her any computer if I'd come has software to bypass things locking up their phones so they can be flashed anyways.
Courage! I hope it doesn't come to a suit
O
beatbreakee said:
unfortunately i cant really confirm or deny anyone... but i will point out this... look into the thread on our 10 Pro forum, where i dropped what ive tried... completed... how i came up with the idea... who helped me in the right direction, and what i was planning as my next steps... Then you will be able to get a list of users who you can each do your own sleuthing.
Again this is not to identify the person directly... but if I was someone who felt deceived or wanted to know who i could eliminate from my conversations and dm's when they REPEATEDLY ask the same or similar questions in other XDA forums for other devices by the same mfg.... I would compile a list of everyone in that thread, then cross off every name that i know has a good rep here, all of the ppl that i have a history with... followed by any names of members who are moderators, or have threads of their own which they provided FREE, instructions/applications for helping remove or mitigate some form of restriction. (root... custom kernel... rom.... bootloader... etc) and then the list of remaining names should be pretty short. Finally take out any SENIOR members, because most ppl who reach that status are OG and not a heartless CASH GRABBER who is only here to spy for his clan of thieves, extorting ppl in need of assistance. Finally take the final few names, and check out all of their posts and replies to see if they follow a pattern , and also if they are only on threads of devices by the same manufacturer.
Any names beyond all those categories, i would NOT do DM's with, or reply directly to any informational requests from those users. ESPECIALLY if they advocate some form of payment to themselves for services that are requested in Crypto. All red flags, and reason for suspicion. But thats just my opinion of how i would decipher and determine exactly who i will stay away from. But actually its worse, because NOW weve been informed that we have ppl here who will sabotage and drop FALSE accusations in formal reports to companies, just so they can keep making $100 a week, by eliminating the people who are working on a "Free For All" solution....
Just sayin'
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Oh believe me. Even without having to take a refresher, instantly two "accounts" stuck out to me because both of their ****ty attitudes, demandment of payment, and an unfortunate DM with one of them privately expressing MSM cannot be cracked and I must pay him and his friend
I have a hard time thinking of anyone else
Ph0nysk1nk said:
Oh believe me. Even without having to take a refresher, instantly two "accounts" stuck out to me because both of their ****ty attitudes, demandment of payment, and an unfortunate DM with one of them privately expressing MSM cannot be cracked and I must pay him and his friend
I have a hard time thinking of anyone else
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C'mon man, my $100 a week livelihood is at stake here!!! Bwahahahahahahahaha, these kinds of people are too sad to even deal with. Keeping such things private that have long since been public, it's so sad it's despicable.
This is freaking unbelievable
I wish you all the very best on figuring out the msmtool and disrupt that [email protected]# 100$ a week income source
AkayamiShurui said:
One more thing I did back up the any version of the file they switched cuz I'm noticing what you're talking about so when I go to my about phone section where it says color OS is completely different fun and completely changed plus the weight scaling font is no longer called the one font but oppo so if you need me to link the Google drive file so you can have access to the one that works cuz I used your method I have a hard copy for the na 2417 version
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thanks man... luckily i downloaded all the FW that were on the original post too... i only wish i had been a luckier person and bought my 10T prior to June. Cuz the 1st groups here that were working on rooting the 10Pro, and 10T , spooked Oppo into removing Fastboot directly from the rom. I would love access to the newer tools that QC uses. And im not doing anything that they would consider illegal , since i was directly told that "Any app that is leaked, or released is well documented prior to it hitting any public servers, because they supposedly keep a tight leash on active programming applications, and the only ones that make it to a state that can be 'hard copied' is apps that are decommissioned as out of date and unsupported. So if any app is found and functional, it can be freely used without any fear of legal action." They actually encouraged the use of "Found" Qualcomm apps, because it might reveal another security flaw that they need knowledge of so they can patch it in future versions.
But i appreciate the offer. Its just nice having someone else who can personally confirm what i stated about them changing the files. Companies like OPPO/BBK dont have the resources to dedicate a division to combing the whole internet looking for clues as to what HAS and HASNT been successful in bypassing their security. They rely on ppl like the one who tried snitching me out, and the actual chip mfg reports to change anything related. But the qualcomm guy i talked to seemed rather surprised when i mentioned "Charging a fee to people who brick their phones, to use the MSM Tool and recover it!" .... lol i dropped that bit of info on purpose, cuz if ANYTHING is illegal, it is THEM charging money for something Qualcomm intended to be used by repair techs for free!
beatbreakee said:
thanks man... luckily i downloaded all the FW that were on the original post too... i only wish i had been a luckier person and bought my 10T prior to June. Cuz the 1st groups here that were working on rooting the 10Pro, and 10T , spooked Oppo into removing Fastboot directly from the rom. I would love access to the newer tools that QC uses. And im not doing anything that they would consider illegal , since i was directly told that "Any app that is leaked, or released is well documented prior to it hitting any public servers, because they supposedly keep a tight leash on active programming applications, and the only ones that make it to a state that can be 'hard copied' is apps that are decommissioned as out of date and unsupported. So if any app is found and functional, it can be freely used without any fear of legal action." They actually encouraged the use of "Found" Qualcomm apps, because it might reveal another security flaw that they need knowledge of so they can patch it in future versions.
But i appreciate the offer. Its just nice having someone else who can personally confirm what i stated about them changing the files. Companies like OPPO/BBK dont have the resources to dedicate a division to combing the whole internet looking for clues as to what HAS and HASNT been successful in bypassing their security. They rely on ppl like the one who tried snitching me out, and the actual chip mfg reports to change anything related. But the qualcomm guy i talked to seemed rather surprised when i mentioned "Charging a fee to people who brick their phones, to use the MSM Tool and recover it!" .... lol i dropped that bit of info on purpose, cuz if ANYTHING is illegal, it is THEM charging money for something Qualcomm intended to be used by repair techs for free!
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Like I said I'm a licensed user from so I have to stay on the guidelines of license so you'll be fine, but they have a bypass tool and other really nice tools like if you flash the wrong ram they got a tool for fixing the ram. Anyway I'll send you my discord