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Hi, I have new Diamond, and I want to ask, why is video playing so slow in GDI, Direct Draw and others. On my Intel PXA 270 520MHz video playback of the samo video was in TCPMP bench 132% on GDI, Direct Draw etc, but Diamond has barely 50%. Why is this?
PXA (Xscale) processors have Wireless MMX instructions to accelerate the video decoding, while MSM chipset inside Diamond does not. Therefore CPU-only decoding will perform very poorly there.
Hovewer, Diamond has a special video decoding accelerator (QTv), so you have to use CorePlayer with Diamond QTv support and obviously switch it to QTv output mode.
Ingvarr said:
PXA (Xscale) processors have Wireless MMX instructions to accelerate the video decoding, while MSM chipset inside Diamond does not. Therefore CPU-only decoding will perform very poorly there.
Hovewer, Diamond has a special video decoding accelerator (QTv), so you have to use CorePlayer with Diamond QTv support and obviously switch it to QTv output mode.
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My movies (FLV and AVI) don't play in Coreplayer in QTv mode. Are you sure the Diamond has QTv support?
pietrucci said:
My movies (FLV and AVI) don't play in Coreplayer in QTv mode. Are you sure the Diamond has QTv support?
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same here:
coreplayer/menu/tools/preferences/QTx Display--i have only one option "TyTNII driver mode" with on/off.
if unthick this only option i have no image
coreplayer v1.2.5 build 4506
OK, thanks, so basicly Xscale accelerate video in every mode, GDI, DirectDraw, because CPU recognize video. And Qualcom has something similiar to that Wireless MMX instructions but it is called QTv and you must have player that can use it, like on PC you must have Video Driver to use VGA card, specially for your GPU. Am I right? So, do you think that it makes Xscale bettter CPU? In other ways, are they simmiliar in performance to each other? Qualcomm and Xscale? I thought that Qualcomm i technically better, coue it is ARM11 but Xscale is lower version of ARM core.
I dont see how Wireless MMX alone makes XScale "better CPU" than MSM. Only because its older than QTv and so supported by older TCPMP, while for QTv you need newest CorePlayer?
This is just how it always happen with new technologies, you always have more software adoption for the older ones.
"TyTNII driver mode" is exactly the QTv support. In Coreplayer 1.2.5 its Diamond-compatible.
pietrucci said:
My movies (FLV and AVI) don't play in Coreplayer in QTv mode. Are you sure the Diamond has QTv support?
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Yes, works great! You net latest version of coreplayer and trigger the TyTN II mode in QTv setting.
so I don´t neet to convert the files anymore
Flanders said:
Yes, works great! You net latest version of coreplayer and trigger the TyTN II mode in QTv setting.
so I don´t neet to convert the files anymore
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Incorrect. Some flv files do not play with CorePlayer 1.25 or older versions.
Qtv does not trigger full enabeling mode for all extensions.
Correct that the same movies DO play better on TytnII with QTV support enabled vs. RAW- GDI mode on Diamond. sucks no?
Well, thanks, but in one way sale is better. H can accelerate video in every mode available on TCPMP, so the Xscale must recognize video, if he can accelerate it under every display drivers mod. In fact Diamond must have GDI, DirectDraw etc. But he dont accelerate video on them because he can´t recognize it himself, am I right? Has Xscale or Qualcomm support for accelerating FLV ? Or just Xvid DivX ?
Its not the problem of the MSM CPU, but the problem of TCPMP.
TCPMP have no support for MSM QTv, only for XScale Wireless MMX, thats why it performs poorly on MSM and better on XScale. Because development of TCPMP was basically stopped more than a year ago.
Use latest Coreplayer, it has the proper QTv support and delivers the good performance on Diamond.
Yes, i understand it. I am just saying that even with new CorePlayer you MUST set QTv, but with Xscale, you can set every driver mode you want, GDI, DD, etc. and Xscale can handle it, can recognize it at every driver-mode.
pokevitek said:
Yes, i understand it. I am just saying that even with new CorePlayer you MUST set QTv, but with Xscale, you can set every driver mode you want, GDI, DD, etc. and Xscale can handle it, can recognize it at every driver-mode.
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Its because XScale Wireless MMX handles only decoding.
QTv handles both decoding & display, its more efficient this way (at least for video playback, especially at higher resolutions).
Now I am little confused. I was asking why Xscale can handle video decoding in every mode, GDI, DD etc. , but Qualcomm only in QTv. And you said that it is becouse of QTv helps displaying, so Xscale can better display images if withount displaying can play video in every mode?
So, I tried CorePlayer 1.2.5 4506 and unfortunelly I must say that Diamond is very slow device. Very! For example: Asus P535 Intel PXA 520MHz - same testing video sequences (704x480, 29FPS, 1,6 Mb/s) - Diamond - QTv mode - 66 %. P535 - DirectDraw - 109%. I want to cry.
You are not directly comparing VGA output with QVGA do you? In VGA case its 4x times more pixels to process. So actually Diamond is more than 2 times faster.
Ingvarr said:
You are not directly comparing VGA output with QVGA do you? In VGA case its 4x times more pixels to process. So actually Diamond is more than 2 times faster.
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he does, the p535 only has 320x240 display.
Eh, I though you may ask for it, I was thinking this way: Video is first decoded (doesent depend on resolution) than image is scale for screen, in QVGA devices is scaled down, in VGA is normal or scaled up. I didnt see much influence of VGA display here, absolutelly no on decoding, which is most important part.
OK, I did some research and there is an idea: Dell Axim x50v - the 624 PXA CPU, VGA screen. I found that on beta player (practically same as the CorePlayer) a video was played on 92% (i remember just bitrate - 1.6Mb). Of course withount 2700G support. With this support it is 190!!!!!%. If is true, that the Wireless MMX is "QTv" (multimedia instruction set) than Diamond is as fast as 624MHZ Xscale CPU, but only in Axim. Loox 720 (again VGA) can play same file with 520MHZ Xscale on 116%, which is also very good. (Only if case that you can QTv consider as Wirelass MMX analogy). This is bad. Our device is 15% slower using special QTv mode than Xscale on same frequency. I read that ATI Imageon can play with ATI driver play same video at 142%, which is GREAT! On VGA device of course. Does Diamond have ATI Imageon chip? I think TyTN has one. Anyway, they wrote that it isnt just Imageon work, but also a Excelent HP drivers. So I think we can expect some noticable video playback improvement in never versions of CorePlayer, and maybe, just maybe with some new ROM, since Diamond has some drivers, HTC cannot say that they must pay some license, and they just optimalised drivers. If this failes too, there still remains "TyTN 2 driver", and maybe it will be usable on Diamond too.
All I wil say is that nothing works for me on QTv, I have to set it to GDI and only then do I get both video and audio. I have no problem with playback, it plays very smooth actually.
Just a bit confused as to why QTv doesnt work for me.
I'm using AVI files and I'm running Coreplayer version 1.2.2 build 3852
Regards
D.C
Simple answer - you just need Core Plyer 1.2.5. It is becouse of older version support QTv, but not on WM6. Newest version does.
Hi, I think that almost everyone want to play some game on his phone. So, I will test some of them, and post here results, and problems. Most of all, I test demos or freeware games, so actually full game results may by different. I hope this will be helpfull for you.
ofcourse it will be helpfull
thx
So, I prepared some games to test, I will test them later becouse I am still serching info about two PDAMill games. These games are Snails Reloaded (just QVGA) and Anthelion 2 (QVGA and VGA version). For some reason, these games runs much slower on Diamond than on brother´s Asus P535 when its CPU is set to 200MHz! Yes, 200MHz outperform in these games our 528MHZ one. I assume that this is due to incompatibility with WM 6.1. But it is strange. On PDA Mill site, they say that WM 6 is supported. Maybe WM 6.1 or combination of WM 6.1 + VGA is the problem. I dont know. Yes, you can run these games, but at speed of snail. Firts I thought that maybe transform from QVGA to VGA is the problem, but Anthelion 2 has VGA version too, and this VGA version was as laggy as QVGA version. If you think that Anthleion is 3D game, and Diamond maybe just cannot handle 3D, it is wrong. Even menu in this game is stupidly laggy, concretelly transtions in menu. And Snails Reloaded act just like Anthelion 2, and they are just 2D game. But I forgott that VS Bench on our devices is very good 2500+ points, that this isnt due to slow Diamond CPU. (VS Bench of Asus P535 is in 520 MHz mode 2300 points and on 200 MHz mode only about 1000 and it still outperform Dimand) .
So, for now I can say that you can play these games, but prepare yourself for laggy game experience.
Next game I tried is Duke Nukem 3D - this is even worst - becouse you can not even run it. After loading, screen goes black, and you must restart it. This is bad news, becouse I liked Duke Nukem 3D on PC, and I played it a lot on my previous WM 5 phone. This game doesent like VGA or WM 6.1.
And for now last one: Call Of Duty mobile. This nice 3D Game runs great, you will get even better framerate than previously mentioned Asus P535 in 520 MHz mode. Still, this game is not smooth, but definattely playable. First game which runs on Diamond slightly better than on P535 (520MHZ adjustable CPU).
More games speed and copatibility info will be here soon.
Nice work keep it up , may want to put them in a list format , with links to the games as well
For ref Age of Empires Gold Edition, Works fine on the Diamond
One question: Where can I buy a licence key to have a full verion of Age of Empires Gold Edition?
Fred
Yes, I know. For now, I will add games just as new replys, but I will make some list in future, when more games will be tested. I can add links, if you want, but remember that most apps I am testing are demo versions, but some freeware will be there too.
Has anyone tried bejeweled 2 yet? I don't wanna install mines until my screen protector arrives!!
best game ever bejeweled 2
I Have Working:
My Little Thank - Just some problems to acess the register screen but works
Solitaire City - Works Fine
SkyForce Rel. - Does not work
Skyforce - Does not work
Bejeweled 2 - Works
Rocket mania - Works
Tradewinds 2 - Works
Insane Aquaium Deluxe - Works
Dielmann said:
One question: Where can I buy a licence key to have a full verion of Age of Empires Gold Edition?
Fred
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IIRC, you cna't - it's long been abandoned.
Siruss said:
SkyForce Rel. - Does not work
Skyforce - Does not work
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Did you contact the developer? It's working just greta on all my other VGA devices, incl. WM6.1 ones - that is, it must be incompatible with the Qualcomm chipset.
Double post - bad connection - sorry
Pocket Heroes - works great
Leomnade Inc.- works but can't get pass the beginning menu
Tombraider - seems to work, as I can't get pass the menu because of missing hardware buttons
Lemmings 1.0 - the screen is black but I can hear the music
Asphalt 3d - runs on 1/5 of the screen
Worms - work great but luck of hw buttons (can't shot, jump and so one)
Houseofdead 3d - works but slow
Poket Quake - shows menu but the game is blank window
Transport Tycoon - stucks on loading screen
koven said:
Asphalt 3d - runs on 1/5 of the screen
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is that 3D_Asphalt_3.jar ? under Jblend v3.2.8 20061016c, it ran full screen on VGA; see the compatibility chart in my MIDlet Bible.
no it's PPC game (*.cab)
Hi Pokvitek, May be the reason for not working / poorly working games on Diamond compared to other (older) VGA devices is that the Games are developed for Open GL processing whereas our Diamond has seperate Qtc processing (the 3D accelerator chip)...
Can anyone put more light on this??
Anyone use or know of a good NES emulator. I would kill to have mario, master blaster, etc on my diamond.
thanks
If anyone would like to have an really good Lemmings Port, look here:
CAB: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~zeppenfe/files/PocketLemmings.cab
If problems occured with moved grafics or similar, then exchange this .EXE: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~zeppenfe/files/LemmingsCE.exe
YouTube Movie: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=11_bG6--h6U
Level AddOns ZIP: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~zeppenfe/files/LemPack_Custom.zip
Thats the first Port ive seen, that leans on the original game, with full levels from "Lemmings" and "Oh No More Lemmings". All you really need, is the "main.dat" file from your (hopefully ) original Lemmings...
I dont know, I personally think that Open GL is not the issue. Anyway, some games dont work due to WM 6.1, some due to VGA, and some due to problem that nobody knows. Qualcomm chipset has ARM 11 operation CPU, so this should not be problem. About Skyforce, I have not a solution, but an idea. I found something interesting. We all know spb benchmark, and with new ROM Diamond has in graphics about 1600 points. This bench can not use Hardware acceleration, so this must be result of just 528 MHz Main CPU. Now, point is that i thought that Diamond grapics index is low due to WM 6.1, but I found other phones running WM 6.1, and they had graphics index about 3000, with 400MHZ CPU. So, I was sad, becous it seemed that Diamond is just piece of crap. THEN I found something interesting, graphic index of IPaQ 214 - WM 6.1 VGA device, with 624 MHz Marvell Monahan 310 CPU. His grphic index was about 1600 too. So, device of this strenght, like IpaQ 214 definnetelly is, should outperform Diamond. So, I guess, that there is something. I dont know what, but I am sure that is.
koven said:
Pocket Heroes - works great
Leomnade Inc.- works but can't get pass the beginning menu
Tombraider - seems to work, as I can't get pass the menu because of missing hardware buttons
Lemmings 1.0 - the screen is black but I can hear the music
Asphalt 3d - runs on 1/5 of the screen
Worms - work great but luck of hw buttons (can't shot, jump and so one)
Houseofdead 3d - works but slow
Poket Quake - shows menu but the game is blank window
Transport Tycoon - stucks on loading screen
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Click to collapse
WORMS: there is a patch available to assign the sound up and sound down buttons to jump and backflip. then evrything works
NES emulators do not work properly because the lack of hardware buttons. the onscreen buttons do not work very well.
Just because opengl es and D3DM work doesnt mean that the GPU is doing the work. I think all we have here is a software rasterizer that is using the CPU. There is no evidence that i am aware of that proves the graphics chip is active. Here is the evidence i collected that shows how the graphics are rendered.
1. In Touchflo 3d,if you go to the settings tab,and click about, there is a list of all the technology used to develop TF3D. Where it says opengl, there is a copyright 2004 Hans-Martin Will. Hans-Martin Will started the vincent3d opensource opengl es project, which is a SOFTWARE implementation. Basically what this means is,Touchflo 3d uses this graphics library to render graphics.
2.The D3Dmobile driver is only a wrapper around opengl ES. Why would we need a wrapper for D3DM if hardware drivers were present? What this means is that D3Dm is also rendered by software only. Notice how DirectDraw is also slow? Thats because there are no drivers.It wouldnt make sense for drivers to allow 3d acceleration only without support for 2d.
3.Samsung Omnia drivers work on the Diamond/Raphael. Huh? These two devices dont even have the same graphics chip. How can a driver for one graphics chip work on a completely different brand/model/type of graphics chip? It cant. The only explanation there could be is that the omnia driver is also a software rasterizer and thats why it works with the htc devices.
that sucks, because it makes sense..
most interesting...
i smell conspiracy...
so true.......................................
Play a very high quality MP4 (h.264) in software mode (with coreplayer for an example) and watch your diamond completely choke, then launch the same video with windows media player and see the difference!
That's one proof of hardware acceleration at least...
Also I highly doubt a game like Xtract would run as great as it does on the Diamond without any hardware acceleration, the graphics and framerate is way to good for the cpu to handle in only software mode, even if it was just drivers.
Aha, that is perhaps why iGo runs way better on my old tek S200 than on my fresh, new touch diamond.
mayby if you read the posts & topics
then you would see there is a 3d driver
just use de diamond ati 3d driver
my diamond goes from 0.2 fps in the hologram program to an stable 25 fps
Thats a hole inprovement
Ps sorry for my bad english
and i also included the driver in the attachment
Greetings Nossie
Hm, where did you find that? It didn't notice any differnce in the slowness of IGO really..Why isn't that installed by default?
disagree...
test the software and hardware versions of COD 2, THPS 2 and NFS Undercover. See the difference: 3D acceleration not only improves the texture and graphics in general, but the framerate. I think if it was just some kind of emulation 3d, improved graphics would worsen the framerate, but what you see is an increase in FPS! Therefore, I believe there is actually hardware acceleration.
Hey everyone!
I got a bit bored at work today, so I hacked the Windows CE Quake3 port (http://code.google.com/p/q3ce/) so that it's playable with the new accelerated 3d drivers (http://www.htcclassaction.org/).
Someone has probably done this before, but I couldn't find anything on the forums, so I thought I'd might as well release it. I basically just changed the import segment so that the (seemingly) unused import of "glClipPlanex", which isn't included in the system-provided libGLES_CM.dll, got changed to the equally-long string "glMatrixMode". This allows the game to run, and while it's still pretty slow, it's much faster than the software renderer.
To run q3ce in hardware 3d, simply remove the libGLES_CM.dll file in your q3ce directory, and run q3ce.exe.
Cheers!
When I download the code from Google, the zip file errors when trying to unpack it. Did you have to do anything out of the ordinary to get it to work?
***EDIT
Nevermind, I'm a sooper noob.
i get "the file q3ce cannot be opened eather it is not signed with a trusted cert or one of its componets can not be found. i am useing the ommina driver.
What version of Quake 3 do I need to buy? Quake III Arena?
Yes, you need Quake 3 Arena to run the game. The q3ce package contains instructions on how to convert and install the game to your windows mobile.
@josefcrist:
Does the original q3ce executable work if you follow the instructions on how to run it without hardware acceleration? I might have to make a special fix for the omnia driver, it probably looks a bit different... Give me a few hours and I'll try getting it to work with that driver. Didn't even know it existed
Thank you ever so much. Will try this on my Diamond (which uses the same chipset albeit with more memory assigned to it).
EDIT: Strange...after the bootconsole part, it just goes back to the homescreen (I disabled TF3D because Q3ce is a huge mem. hog).
Anyway, I'm very grateful for your effort, and I'm sure many Diam users would be.
@josefcrist:
Hmm, it looks like the omnia drivers is only a D3D driver, while Quake 3 uses OpenGL... So with both the HTCCA driver AND the Omnia driver installed you can use OpenGL ES applications, while still having the better D3D performance that the Omnia driver seems to promise.
@nuuke1:
Yeah, I really want one of those, the much higher resolution display is just so sexy! If you can send me all the DLL files (could be one or two) called libgles in your Windows directory on the diamond, I'll see what I can do about it.
erim said:
@josefcrist:
Hmm, it looks like the omnia drivers is only a D3D driver, while Quake 3 uses OpenGL... So with both the HTCCA driver AND the Omnia driver installed you can use OpenGL ES applications, while still having the better D3D performance that the Omnia driver seems to promise.
@nuuke1:
Yeah, I really want one of those, the much higher resolution display is just so sexy! If you can send me all the DLL files (could be one or two) called libgles in your Windows directory on the diamond, I'll see what I can do about it.
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It looks sexy alright, with the VGA too, but I'd wait for some of HTCs newer announcements in about 20 days at the MWC09, and since HTC has partnered with nVidia, we may even see Tegra *faints on the spot out of excitement*.
Sure thing with the dlls .
EDIT: Here we go. Hmm, I think one of the libgles files is hidden, the cm one.
Hmm, this is a bit odd... The original q3ce.exe seems to be linked to exactly your libgles_cl.dll. All the imports line up perfectly. Could you try copying your ligbles_cl.dll to the q3ce dir, and rename it to libgles_cm.dll?
It could also be worth to try the same with the libgles_mn.dll, as they both seem like good candidates. Good luck!
Whoops I forgot to mention that Q3ce already works with h/w acceleration but only 7 or 8 fps. It must be able to work better than that, methinks.
Anyhow just trying what you said (with original Q3ce.exe, other one doesn't work this time as well) AND...
OK the FPS is on average around 9/10 fps hehe. It's an improvement though!
EDIT: Is it possible to make it play in QVGA, as it's currently set to play at the resolution of that particular device. That would be sterling!
I get around that framerate too... There's definitely room for improvements. GLBenchmark runs pretty fast, so one would think that quake 3 would too...
I'll see if I can get q3ce to compile. With a bit of luck I might be able to do some optimizations and fixes. Would be fun to have a more playable q3 port for these phones.
Whatever happened to getting Quake 3 Arena to work smoothly?
well depends on what you call smooth, i can run quake 3 at about 9-15 fps, with customized config and a special ram setup+exe that i found for the dellaxim and surprisingly it worked for the kaiser, you do need a mix of drivers and a special rom if you will, almost none of the newer roms works with the d3d drivers
I would just give up on trying to get Quake 3 running on the Kaiser. The Kaiser obviously isn't as powerful as advertised, and Quake 3 is never gonna be playable.
For this reason I'm getting a nokia n82 (it's like a copy of the N95 except with xenon flash, better camera, candybar style). It'l play quake 3 at about 30fps with full graphics and detail. I'll also be able to play SNES and GBA. I really can't wait to get it!
mikeeey said:
For this reason I'm getting a nokia n82 (it's like a copy of the N95 except with xenon flash, better camera, candybar style). It'l play quake 3 at about 30fps with full graphics and detail. I'll also be able to play SNES and GBA. I really can't wait to get it!
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some need a gps device with pda functions and a phone.. others, a gaming machine. want the first? get an winmo! want games? get an iphone dude
Does anyone have a working copy of everything needed to get Quake 3 working? Minus the Quake 3 files itself of course. Instructions on how to get .wad files there would be great too.
Some reason, I tried Quake3, but it just closes when it tries to start up.
I finally got Quake3 working with 3D acceleration. These damn applications don't make it easy getting it working. The main problem was getting the .pk3 file correctly made.
Anyway, it runs at 4-5 fps, and textures are missing. Mainly, the textures on the weapons.
Quake 3 was ported finally on the Android, and I'm going to give it a try on the Kaiser. Going to see which is better, Quake 3 for WinMO or Android. So far, nearly everything I run on Android is faster, such as emulators for Nes, Genesis, and SNES.
I know this is my third post, but I got Quake 3 working on the Android running on the Kaiser. I have a post about it, with a video showing it working.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5791339#post5791339
Hi does anyone think there will be a chance that windows phone 7 can be ported onto the HTC Diamond, I've just seen the first look videos for the 3 new win 7 phones and the new OS looks awesome
would appreciate an answer
thanks
no i think.....because wp7 requires direct 3d hardware accelerated gpu and diamond have an opengl es 1.1 hardware accelerated gpu....diamond can run d3d apps or games but the driver is a translator from d3d code to opengl code....
but if the driver is translating the code, can't similar be done to wp7, then the graphics might work but it would be slightly slow
yes the graphics will be very slow......i think so maybe...hope i'm miss!