Related
Dear Microsoft,
I am writing this letter to ask permission for Xda-developers.com and it's users to officially use, develop, and share the new Wizard WM6 roms on this site. I know that you are currently not allowing us to do so. I believe it is in your best interest to let us. Here is why:
1) User Testing - allowing us to develop and share the WM6 rom for the wizard will open your product to a huge amount of testing. On this site, we don't just use our phones, we push them hard. We love to see the most we can get out of them. We get bored with what we have, so we load a new rom and see what it can do. 3 days later we load another. You will not find a better place on the Internet to test your roms.
Also, it will allow us to test compatibility with new and existing software. This site is already reference material for most software developers and even HTC. In our never-ending search for information about these devices we find things such as tricks to make them better, security holes, and all sorts of information that 3rd party companies can use.
All of this work is done by volunteers who, although they may gripe from time to time, feel a sense of satisfaction for doing this work. You can't buy their level of loyalty.
2) Goodwill - Allowing us to use, develop and share the WM6 rom will create a massive amount of goodwill on this site for your company. Since you are the biggest player in the game, you are currently subject to TONS of criticism everywhere you turn. People usually see you as this huge faceless corporation that wants to control people and take their money. I read the blogs of Microsoft employees and know this is really not the case. Allowing us to work on this rom openly will create goodwill that no ad campaign can buy.
3) Money - The bottom line is that you will save money. Money that might be spent on research will be saved by free research on this site. Money spent on ads to generate goodwill will be saved by the goodwill generated on this site.
I appreciate your consideration of this matter. Please let us know of your decision.
Sincerely,
texasaggie1
cool letter.. cant wait to see wat kind of responce you get.
Diddo.......Let's see if the big boss will let us play.
Great Letter Aggie. I would think the MS resposne would be pretty good about this. MS has been pretty good with other technologies lately in opening it up and taking feedbacks from users.
One thing is for sure. THERE IS NO OTHER PLACE BETTER THAN HERE TO TEST/TWEAK/BETTER WINDOWS MOBILE.
We do have a vast number of volunteers here that do a helluva job in making these roms faster and better.
What makes you think they aren't doing this already?
Where do you think this 'leaked' version originated from, anyway? And why is it literally painless to install?
MS has employees who actively troll this group (among others) to get feedback..good and bad...for their "pre-release" warez. They just lurk in the shadows (rightfully so, speaking up would make them the whipping boys of the forum...)
Since the hardware mfr and/or the service provider of the device is the one who decides whether or not to 'upgrade' your device with the latest and greatest OS (based heavily on whether or not they want to support multiple s/w versions) MS can't make any money off simply selling their product to the end user. Unlike the PC model of selling you a retail boxed version of a new operating system for your PC.
No money to be made = no money to be lost. Think about it.
All that being said, the most important thing to remember is that they will ACTIVELY shut down any site hosting their software without their permission. If they fail to enforce their copyrights by legal means, it further weakens any argument in future lawsuits regarding others who pirate their software. They will also quickly piss off the likes of t-mobile, cingular, and other service providers if they provide the end-user a means of bypassing their process of certifying the stability of their phones.
They will continue to operate in this way for a long time. They get free beta testing from 'hardcore users' while looking the other way. It's genius if you ask me!
!! Sweet !!
I would be very suprised if they gave this consideration, they will wait for the 'next gen' devices up to come to release it on in my opinion.
Besides we must face it, most people that are using these phones these days do not flash their device, nonetheless, know what it is.
We are the few flashing samurai that cannot live with a stock rom, and want to "juice" our hardware to get our money's worth. \m/
I will say If you live in the US now you will see that parents are buying their teenage kiddies smartphones/ppcs now for a couple reasons. 1) To ward off an appl music/video product, and of course. 2) To be able to reach them anywhere with the phone service.
It would have been funny to say that most people on this site are using/have used the wm6 leak already, so we might as well work together for free, for a learning purpose.
They need more of this for WM device settings...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2362050448778905490&q=steve+ballmer+remix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo
rizzo said:
What makes you think they aren't doing this already?
Where do you think this 'leaked' version originated from, anyway? And why is it literally painless to install?
MS has employees who actively troll this group (among others) to get feedback..good and bad...for their "pre-release" warez. They just lurk in the shadows (rightfully so, speaking up would make them the whipping boys of the forum...)
Since the hardware mfr and/or the service provider of the device is the one who decides whether or not to 'upgrade' your device with the latest and greatest OS (based heavily on whether or not they want to support multiple s/w versions) MS can't make any money off simply selling their product to the end user. Unlike the PC model of selling you a retail boxed version of a new operating system for your PC.
No money to be made = no money to be lost. Think about it.
All that being said, the most important thing to remember is that they will ACTIVELY shut down any site hosting their software without their permission. If they fail to enforce their copyrights by legal means, it further weakens any argument in future lawsuits regarding others who pirate their software. They will also quickly piss off the likes of t-mobile, cingular, and other service providers if they provide the end-user a means of bypassing their process of certifying the stability of their phones.
They will continue to operate in this way for a long time. They get free beta testing from 'hardcore users' while looking the other way. It's genius if you ask me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you might be right. But, aren't they allowing WM6 on the Universal? That may change the equation.
My gut feeling is that one or more of the ROM cookers in here works for M$. You don't know some of the things they do without having a lot more background knowledge than the average joe. There's nothing wrong with that, of course...that means better products for you and me.
I support Texasaggie1
Hi, i would like to support the request. It makes damn sense, I am an old-time Linux user and i think that Microsoft would show great marketing sense in allowing us to test it. I will not argue about the advantages and benefits,
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
pzucchel said:
Hi, i would like to support the request. It makes damn sense, I am an old-time Linux user and i think that Microsoft would show great marketing sense in allowing us to test it. I will not argue about the advantages and benefits,
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Thought is NO-ONE. As all we do is RUN these ROMS and Tweak them to perform in the best way that they can. All that everyone does here is readily available and can/could/HAS been adopted by Developers, Networks & Manufacturers alike.
jwzg said:
My gut feeling is that one or more of the ROM cookers in here works for M$. You don't know some of the things they do without having a lot more background knowledge than the average joe. There's nothing wrong with that, of course...that means better products for you and me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt any of the 'cookers' work for Microsoft. Although difficult, it's fairly common to reverse-engineer someone elses code and mold it into something that you want. Once you get the hang of how things work and make the script kiddie tools to do it, it's fairly simple.
One thing that a cooker can't do is write an entire OS then 'leak' it onto the internet and call it WM6, this is done by someone entrusted with copies of it for legitimate purposes. Blame HTC or any of the ODM's if you want, but it my opinion, it would be a waste of your time.
If you want to infect the world, you must spread your disease. MS has come a long way in this regard with the likes of gaining on Palm, RIM, symbian, etc.
Microsoft has always leveraged piracy to work in their favor...those that can't get the disease (or otherwise can't afford it) will have access to it. If you can't make the sale, might as well get them hooked fo' free!
pzucchel said:
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but I had to chime in on this one, too. Maybe some people don't see it, but we ARE actively beta testing their software.
If you develop software, and want to have beta testing do any good, there needs to be some kind of order. Visiting forums to find information is chaotic at best. Sifting through page after page of hijacked threads and RTFM type questions isn't going to yield the feedback a company needs to squash the bugs out of code. If enough people complain about a particular 'feature' then it might get the company to try and replicate it in-house, but its very unlikely that you'd ever hear anything back from them.
End-users modifying their devices by flashing it with unreleased firmware it wasn't originally designed for is dangerous, and can cause a ripple effect if it's not managed. As long as the company stands by its "hey, we never said this code was finished - not to mention you're not supposed to have it" stance, it can shield them from almost ALL liability in you bricking your phone. In the mean time, hardcore folks like us will continue shoving the bleeding-edge not-ready-ware into our phones in order to tell the tales of our adventures to all that will listen - and MS will continue "leaking" their warez into the wild.
The minute Microsoft starts bending these rules for folks like us, then they are going to have to answer to THEIR customers (HTC, network providers, etc) when the nOObs start flooding their call centers for warranty-return requests.
texasaggie1 said:
Dear Microsoft,
I am writing this letter to ask permission for Xda-developers.com and it's users to officially use, develop, and share the new Wizard WM6 roms on this site. I know that you are currently not allowing us to do so. I believe it is in your best interest to let us. Here is why:
1) User Testing - allowing us to develop and share the WM6 rom for the wizard will open your product to a huge amount of testing. On this site, we don't just use our phones, we push them hard. We love to see the most we can get out of them. We get bored with what we have, so we load a new rom and see what it can do. 3 days later we load another. You will not find a better place on the Internet to test your roms.
Also, it will allow us to test compatibility with new and existing software. This site is already reference material for most software developers and even HTC. In our never-ending search for information about these devices we find things such as tricks to make them better, security holes, and all sorts of information that 3rd party companies can use.
All of this work is done by volunteers who, although they may gripe from time to time, feel a sense of satisfaction for doing this work. You can't buy their level of loyalty.
2) Goodwill - Allowing us to use, develop and share the WM6 rom will create a massive amount of goodwill on this site for your company. Since you are the biggest player in the game, you are currently subject to TONS of criticism everywhere you turn. People usually see you as this huge faceless corporation that wants to control people and take their money. I read the blogs of Microsoft employees and know this is really not the case. Allowing us to work on this rom openly will create goodwill that no ad campaign can buy.
3) Money - The bottom line is that you will save money. Money that might be spent on research will be saved by free research on this site. Money spent on ads to generate goodwill will be saved by the goodwill generated on this site.
I appreciate your consideration of this matter. Please let us know of your decision.
Sincerely,
texasaggie1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agreed texasaggie1 said but dont forget in all devices rom ,MS just part of 70% of rom others 30% belong to HTC,T-mobile...etc, the reason we need to cook rom in here not really problem belong to MS that belong to HTC,
MS understand HTC was first OEM used Mobile window,but MS can understand why we need to cook rom in here ? do you hear anyone cook Window XP ? MS must understand device rom is different with Window XP,MS just proved PB and AKU ,device also need driver and some of OEM program otherwide device(phone) will not working,you can see in rom kithen had OS/LOC/OEM , SO belong to MS,LOC/OEM belong to HTC,T-Mobile..etc. this is different with window XP,if today all rom made by MS than no one can said anything,but not in this case ,we in here not only help MS also help HTC,T-Mobile...etc. too, they got how many free employees to worked with them,now Apple will come out IPhone ,I dont think MS want to lose market to them,we in here 100% support to MS , I dont understand what piont they refuse us ?
BA_Flash_GOD said:
I would be very suprised if they gave this consideration, they will wait for the 'next gen' devices up to come to release it on in my opinion.
Besides we must face it, most people that are using these phones these days do not flash their device, nonetheless, know what it is.
We are the few flashing samurai that cannot live with a stock rom, and want to "juice" our hardware to get our money's worth. \m/
I will say If you live in the US now you will see that parents are buying their teenage kiddies smartphones/ppcs now for a couple reasons. 1) To ward off an appl music/video product, and of course. 2) To be able to reach them anywhere with the phone service.
It would have been funny to say that most people on this site are using/have used the wm6 leak already, so we might as well work together for free, for a learning purpose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Good reply.
I know all of this is a long shot. But it's been bugging me lately. I had to post this letter.
Flashing/Testing New OS = Good Experience
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
BA_Flash_GOD said:
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry, please don't take this the wrong way. But this is one of the silliest ideas I have seen in a long time. Think for a moment about the support headaches from even 20% of their users playing with ROMS versus the 2-3% that do it now. And you think some of the NOOBS on here get annoying forget about regular users!!!
I think things are about perfect the way they are. A little "unofficial" help lets us hardcore users reap the benefits of upgrading with out the hassles. Trust me if ROM upgrades became more official they would kill groups like this. They would charge for the upgrades and they would want to control them like they do desktop OS upgrades. I say no thanks to that. It's like the early days of Napster, or more recently You Tube taking down tons of videos, those things were much better before they became mainstream and then they had to change.
I will say this. MS should figure out how to make the CID & SIM Lock a separate part of the rom like the radio and bootloader, make it totally separate from the Rom & Extended Rom itself. That would allow tweakers to change roms with out worrying about Locks and would make the phone companies happy too. And I am sure users that need unlocking would figure that out too
BA_Flash_GOD said:
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
anyone who wants to can use google. I seriously do not think that its neccesary to let the world know. they could know... if they wanted to. Bad idea imho.
rizzo said:
Sorry, but I had to chime in on this one, too. Maybe some people don't see it, but we ARE actively beta testing their software.
If you develop software, and want to have beta testing do any good, there needs to be some kind of order. Visiting forums to find information is chaotic at best. Sifting through page after page of hijacked threads and RTFM type questions isn't going to yield the feedback a company needs to squash the bugs out of code. If enough people complain about a particular 'feature' then it might get the company to try and replicate it in-house, but its very unlikely that you'd ever hear anything back from them.
End-users modifying their devices by flashing it with unreleased firmware it wasn't originally designed for is dangerous, and can cause a ripple effect if it's not managed. As long as the company stands by its "hey, we never said this code was finished - not to mention you're not supposed to have it" stance, it can shield them from almost ALL liability in you bricking your phone. In the mean time, hardcore folks like us will continue shoving the bleeding-edge not-ready-ware into our phones in order to tell the tales of our adventures to all that will listen - and MS will continue "leaking" their warez into the wild.
The minute Microsoft starts bending these rules for folks like us, then they are going to have to answer to THEIR customers (HTC, network providers, etc) when the nOObs start flooding their call centers for warranty-return requests.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry but I have to side with rizzo on this one. They will never officially come out and allow this because they can't. You are asking them to agree to a. Code leaking, b. Code theft, c. Software Piracy in a sense (since you have to not acquired a legal copy and have not paid licenses for it), d. Copyright infringement. What company in their right mind say yes to this and open up the flood gates? And like rizzo said allow them to be liable for consumer or partner lawsuits as well?
As much as I agree with the original heartfelt post, we say what we say for argument's sake. They have already responded numerous times by allowing this and turning a blind eye. Every now and then they complain, either because we did step on some toes or because they officially have to say this is not allowed. If they really tried, they could cause some serious legal trouble. They choose not to, for a all the reasons mentioned in the original post.
So don't ask the impossible. Don't expect windows to become an open source application or windows mobile to release official betas to the public (not for sometime anyway). Pigs just don't fly sorry.
I have to agree with Rizzo. Besides, Microsoft won't spend resources on releasing ROMs for old devices, giving them for free to users and then having no way to recover some of the investment, because the Wizard is being phased out. It doesn't make sense.
However Microsoft can open a program for betatesting their ROMs, that is completely possible. A program that involves registering every user that gets the ROM, once we agree not to ask for support and all the legal stuff. And provide the means to keep track of bug reporst, etc. But still if you want to beta test something, you want to do it on the device where it's intended to be used the final release, and I don't think our Wizards are going to get an official WM 6 upgrade.
It's a long shot
igalan said:
I have to agree with Rizzo. Besides, Microsoft won't spend resources on releasing ROMs for old devices, giving them for free to users and then having no way to recover some of the investment, because the Wizard is being phased out. It doesn't make sense.
However Microsoft can open a program for betatesting their ROMs, that is completely possible. A program that involves registering every user that gets the ROM, once we agree not to ask for support and all the legal stuff. And provide the means to keep track of bug reporst, etc. But still if you want to beta test something, you want to do it on the device where it's intended to be used the final release, and I don't think our Wizards are going to get an official WM 6 upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a long shot, but they do allow WM6 in the Universal thread. Maybe they will for us. Maybe we try again to post WM6 roms in a few weeks and see what happens??
Right...I’ve been using xda-dev for a while and decided its about time I contribute something back....especially as its my uni holidays and I have nothing to do my software idea is basically something to tell you prices of near by fuel outlets. Unless something like this already exists (a quick search of fuel prices on the xda-dev of fuel prices shows nothing)
Firstly I have no previous programming experience but we all have to start somewhere right?
Secondly what would I use to write the program in?
Thirdly how difficult would such a project be?
Sorry if questions I ask don’t make sense, I am a total noob.
I'm a noob aswell, but from what I can see to be able to do this your going to have to have access to all the necessary fuel prices, which are going to be updated how and from where?
Unless you could get access to an existing sql database, i cant see it being practical, well not for a noob anyway.
Anyone Correct me if i'm wrong.
Hmm i guess its best to learn programming before you attempt to write a software. Visual Studio is probably the best one to write in, and i believe the phone uses .NET. (Which can open up more languages and its pretty damn easy to program in)
Too lazy to write a program myself for PPC, but i recommend Visual C++
Video Tutorials -For programming in windows mobile
http://www.cplusplus.com/ -Good place to learn stuff
As for the difficulty, it depends.
Getting the gas info is the easy part, (ie some gas websites have easy URLS such as www.gasblahblah.com/index.aspx&?area=ZIPCODE
then parsing the page is trivial.
As for the functionality, try looking on sourceforge for some sample coding you can use, such as a skeleton for a today plugin etc.
Its not gunna be easy but goodluck!
good luck
As hirst89 said, it will be difficult. First of all, you need to build an up to date database (go check mysql or sqlite on google which are truly wonderful database softwares). Then, about the program itself, you have to learn how to develop in .NET with visual studio and .NET framework 2.0 (license fees are awfully expensive for the whole solution but you could try light versions don't know if they are trustable go check http://msdn.microsoft.com/fr-fr/express/aa975050.aspx). After that, you'll need a good server with an average bandwith (depends on the country you live in, for france go check www.ovh.com).
Good luck, you'll need it!!!!
goorht
Yeh I think my post only touched on the difficulties of it. How would you go about collecting data from presumably the majority of fuel stations? Especially on a low budget, I presume from the fact that your a student.
And as for the programming, I wouldnt like to guess how much of an in depth knowledge you would need of .net for it to be basically functional.
Hope this all helps....but hope it doesnt squash your ideas and aspirations
Thank you for your quick responses...can you think of any more practical or easier to implement which I could start with?
well you could use c# which is use alot for software running on the windows mobile environment. there is Visual C# express version for free if you odnt want to shell out the money for visual studio.
zeezee said:
well you could use c# which is use alot for software running on the windows mobile environment. there is Visual C# express version for free if you odnt want to shell out the money for visual studio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think i'll start with express and if i enjoy it and get some interest in wat i'm doing then give something else a try.
I'm really worried going into this...i have no idea wat to expect
*just waiting for Visual basic to download and install*
Humz said:
i think i'll start with express and if i enjoy it and get some interest in wat i'm doing then give something else a try.
I'm really worried going into this...i have no idea wat to expect
*just waiting for Visual basic to download and install*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a brief look at creating my own software but my programming and coding knowledge doesn't stretch that far, I think I'll just stick with what im good at CSS, XHTML & Graphic Design
visual studio is easy, VS8 is free but it doesn't do much, if i'm not mistaken and i believe it was mentioned above that visual studio works in .NET but first you should try a couple easy things, try writing a small game like idk SKI FREE!!!! i haven't gotten around to it, but writing a game or other such is one of my projects for the summer while school is out. but that feul idea is fantastic, but windows live already tried it and it is extremely out of date. start small and work into the bigger stuff.
p.s. if you write ski free and get it to work on the phone let me know
Visual Studio Express doesn't allow you to develop mobile applications. Students from selected countries can grab a free copy of VS2008 Professional from here. Otherwise, the next best free solution would be the outdated eVC++ or eMbedded Visual Tools, which only support up to Pocket PC 2003 SDK. However, those apps will still work on WM5/WM6, etc. The main limitation is that the you don't have access to the APIs in the newer OS.
Humz said:
(a quick search of fuel prices on the xda-dev of fuel prices shows nothing)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are some programs that retrieve current and local gas prices. Windows Live Search is one.
I don't want to discourage you from writing your own, sounds like it would be good practice to start with. I wish I had the time to learn how to do it.
GWelker62 said:
There are some programs that retrieve current and local gas prices. Windows Live Search is one.
I don't want to discourage you from writing your own, sounds like it would be good practice to start with. I wish I had the time to learn how to do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was gonna mention that.
This is a wery good book to start whit. Introduction to Programming Using Visual Basic 2008.
I just installed WMWiFiRouter (http://www.wmwifirouter.com/) trail version and liked pretty much. Would like to buy a license if someone can clarify my questions:
1- Is WMWiFiRouter Legal according to the service providers? I'm with ATT
2- Is anyone who is already using could share their reviews
3- Will ATT objects for WMWiFiRouter usage? Obviously I will be using for web browsing and not for downloads.
Thanks Folks !!
1. Wifi router would be a violation of ATT tos
2. I use wifi router daily. I havent tried the newest release but i did try v1.10 and reverted back to an older version. Sure there are new options and tools in the new versions but its slow and buggy (may take 2 or 3 atempts for connection, connection drops, takes longer to connect). I would suggest that you try version 0.91 (which is a free version). It lacks the extra options like connection security and naming your connection, but you can go to the connection itself after it has been created and name it and encode it there. version 0.91 is fast, almost never drops out, and connect right away.....oh, and again i believe its free.
3. Dont tell um : )
(just make sure to stay within their data cap.
Thanks YL Groper.
I have unlimited data plan so I wont be exceeding the data limit. Where can I get the 0.91 version? Can you share please..
YL Groper said:
1. Wifi router would be a violation of ATT tos
d
I would suggest that you try version 0.91 (which is a free version). It lacks the extra options like connection security and naming your connection, but you can go to the connection itself after it has been created and name it and encode it there. version 0.91 is fast, almost never drops out, and connect right away.....oh, and again i believe its free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WMWifiRouter is not free and if you are using a beta before Chainfire, its author and a hero to the xda community, went commercial either because that was the version availabl!e when you first got it and stuck with it or you pirate it, you are doing so against the wishes of the author. Maybe not the law, but the author.
So either pay up, beg for his permission on irc, live without it or live in sin.
That aside, when Time Warner cut me off I spent three weeks bootlegging ... copies of Debian Linux like it was my job and AT&T didn't break my balls about the many gigs of bandwidth -- perhaps because they'd make more money by my having to buy another $45 battery shortly after.
Got this version
i've got this version, its work fine for me on my raphael. dk wich version it is.
Mod EDIT: Perma ban for that, DO NOT POST WAREZ.
mahocan said:
i've got this version, its work fine for me on my raphael. dk wich version it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That looks like the 21 day [edit: cracked] demo of 1.25 (current). However, even posting the demo violates Chainfire's website's EULA which includes "You may not sell, assign, license, disclose, or otherwise transfer or make available the Software or any copies of the Software in any form to any third parties, without the written permission of Morose Media."
Sorry to be anal but for those of you who also wish to be anal or courteous, to download the trial you should go here and check off that you accept the EULA and get the cab.
If you want more information about WMWifiRouter, check out Chainfire's thread. Note that he doesn't post the cab, just the link, possibly I'd bet to keep track of how many people are downloading it and from where for marketing purposes. That's what I'd do and that may be what Chainfire is contractually obligated to do his best to make sure it happens that way. When your product, even its demo, is running in the wild, that's valuable information you're not getting that you could use to leverage yourself a better offer.
And please people, nobody post the betas in this thread, another or anywhere on the Internet. Just give out the download link, http://global.wmwifirouter.com/trial/.
Doug
Personally I think its BS that he released free versions (.91) and now tells people they can't download or use them. What a greedy SOB. We all make, build, and use software that is freeware for the reason that we share it. If you want to sell your version, go for it. But don't get a god complex and demand everyone stop using everything you've created until they pay you. Especially if you released it as freeware.
ThyAbode said:
Thanks YL Groper.
I have unlimited data plan so I wont be exceeding the data limit. Where can I get the 0.91 version? Can you share please..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ATT has a 5GB cap on their unlimited data plans. So yeah, you have to worry about that. Just be on a heads up. A friend of mine just got hit for it, ended up with a $3,000 bill.
You got to be F'ing kidding me.
Chainfire, like many others here, started developing a program that turned out to be brilliant and invaluably useful to so many people. So he gave it out for free both to hook everybody up with something fantastic /and/ to get feedback from people on how to make it better.
But a program that turns your cell phone into, essentially, a Linksys router plugged into a cable modem is extraordinarily complex. He didn't invent the paperclip, patent it, kick back and let the royalties come in, he made something that required and still requires thousands of hours of development, something for which there is a huge market not just for our phones but Nokias and Blackberries.
So it hits the streets here first, people love it, they want more, they want more features, they want encryption, they want different ports, they want more thousands of hours out of him; suddenly it turns into a full time operation for Chainfire. Full time from the beginning as a hobby and now as a possible small career.
And then he apparently gets an offer from some kind of technologically-related venture capital outfit basically offering him a job under, of course, a lot of conditions. They market the program as aggressively as they can, sell it and give him a small cut. He takes the deal. The man did not have an infinite source of income before this (nor does he now) and this is a very rare, the only one of which I am aware, that something born on XDA is so good that it gets commercial attention.
We should all be proud of him and WMWifiRouter stands as an example of what you might be able to accomplish here if you work hard enough.
And you're going to break balls and call it bull**** that in order to use what he started for more than a trial period to figure out that it's worth far more you have to pay $30 just because it started in betas without EULAs? What kind of asshole are you?
Isriam said:
Personally I think its BS that he released free versions (.91) and now tells people they can't download or use them. What a greedy SOB. We all make, build, and use software that is freeware for the reason that we share it. If you want to sell your version, go for it. But don't get a god complex and demand everyone stop using everything you've created until they pay you. Especially if you released it as freeware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All arguing asside I really ike WMWiFiRouter
Kewlj1313
Isriam said:
Personally I think its BS that he released free versions (.91) and now tells people they can't download or use them. What a greedy SOB. We all make, build, and use software that is freeware for the reason that we share it. If you want to sell your version, go for it. But don't get a god complex and demand everyone stop using everything you've created until they pay you. Especially if you released it as freeware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As much as I would like to agree with you, I can't. Many successful companies have done the same. Hell, Microsoft is doing that right now. Anyone can go download Windows 7 and get a key. Then suddenly, everyone's Windows 7 installs will be telling the users they need to buy a key! Sounds familiar, except Chainfire is just asking people to buy a license for the upgraded program. He wants a return on his investment.
He's done so much for this community, you can't cast him out and piss on his name. He's putting actual time and money into his new project and improving it. Unless he tries forcing the people using the free version into upgrading, I really don't see a problem with it.
My my, what a heated discussion!
First, to answer the original poster's questions:
1 & 3:
It is the same for all providers: you need a data plan that allows tethering. If you don't, you would be violating their terms of service. Which in turn means they could charge you extra or just terminate your phone service. If you use WMWifiRouter regularly you should by all means get a data plan that allows tethering, just to be sure. (you wont get thrown in jail, though )
2:
I obviously cannot answer that
---
As to some of the 'points' made here by others. You guys are clueless. I wrote a long response to explain exactly what/how, but you know what, even if I posted that, you still wouldn't understand (or try to). So I'm just going to keep it short instead.
No, you are not allowed to distribute any version of WMWifiRouter. That you didn't have to pay for the old versions is completely irrelevant to that. You were never allowed to distribute them, and with good reason. Never have I said people who were using 0.91 or older had to upgrade, or that they had to stop using it - so stop pretending I did. And if you know this and still continue to do that, it's nothing but disrespectful to the people who make the stuff you use.
You have no idea how much time goes into the development, testing and support of something like this (I spend > 60 hours a week on it and still release a lot of other things here on XDA, and I'm not the only person working on it). It was just not possible to go on with developing it without charging for it - and the current WMWifiRouter is much better because of it. Not to mention the legal stuff that went on around the time of 0.91 that cost me a bunch of money out of my own pocket - and as people hardly ever donate ....
It is not and has never been a matter of greed, it's always been a matter of finding a way to get it done. If you're big enough to complain about it, you should be big enough to simply refrain from using it altogether... Just because you are a freeloader doesn't mean I'm the bad guy here.
And btw, if you've never tried version 1.20 or up, you never really tried WMWifiRouter ...
Chainfire said:
My my, what a heated discussion!
First, to answer the original poster's questions:
1 & 3:
It is the same for all providers: you need a data plan that allows tethering. If you don't, you would be violating their terms of service. Which in turn means they could charge you extra or just terminate your phone service. If you use WMWifiRouter regularly you should by all means get a data plan that allows tethering, just to be sure. (you wont get thrown in jail, though )
2:
I obviously cannot answer that
---
As to some of the 'points' made here by others. You guys are clueless. I wrote a long response to explain exactly what/how, but you know what, even if I posted that, you still wouldn't understand (or try to). So I'm just going to keep it short instead.
No, you are not allowed to distribute any version of WMWifiRouter. That you didn't have to pay for the old versions is completely irrelevant to that. You were never allowed to distribute them, and with good reason. Never have I said people who were using 0.91 or older had to upgrade, or that they had to stop using it - so stop pretending I did. And if you know this and still continue to do that, it's nothing but disrespectful to the people who make the stuff you use.
You have no idea how much time goes into the development, testing and support of something like this (I spend > 60 hours a week on it and still release a lot of other things here on XDA, and I'm not the only person working on it). It was just not possible to go on with developing it without charging for it - and the current WMWifiRouter is much better because of it. Not to mention the legal stuff that went on around the time of 0.91 that cost me a bunch of money out of my own pocket - and as people hardly ever donate ....
It is not and has never been a matter of greed, it's always been a matter of finding a way to get it done. If you're big enough to complain about it, you should be big enough to simply refrain from using it altogether... Just because you are a freeloader doesn't mean I'm the bad guy here.
And btw, if you've never tried version 1.20 or up, you never really tried WMWifiRouter ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very well said.......
The sole of a shoe is always being worn, some wear there's more than others. But, if it was your sole being worn by someone else. What would you do for protection of your feet?
LMAO, some people are ridiculous. Keep doing what you do Chainfire the mobility world is better for it.
Rob
I never once said you couldn't sell your software, upgrade your software, or spend time adding features. I said you were greedy for demanding all previous freeware versions removed from all sites and calling anyone who uses a freeware version a thief. 0.91 was released as freeware and as such you should have no problem with anyone sharing it or using it. You're making it sound like using 0.91 is against the law and anyone doing so must pay to use 1.25.
For the record I invest thousands of hours in coding and software as well and make plenty of money doing so. I just believe that when you release shareware or freeware, that you should understand one day you may wish to market your software and older, less featured software may still be available because YOU decided to release it early.
This is a classic case of greed. If someone wants a full featured fully working platform, make them pay for it. But if they decide they can live with your freeware, first trial public versions, then why be an ass about it? And yes, I've read about you going around demanding sites remove your previous versions, and making mods lock topics or remove links to your previous versions.
Don't you read? You were never allowed to distribute it. It said so both in the thread and the download page on the site, when the old downloads were available. Makes your complete response completely irrelevant. And again, using 0.91 is not against the law, spreading it is. Just because you didn't have to pay for it, doesn't mean you can do everything you want with it. If I had charged $0.01 for it from the start, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
As for why I'm being an 'ass' about it, is because people don't want to play by the rules I set for the software I made. That doesn't make me an ass, that makes them an ass. Perhaps if the people who know what/where/how with the old versions just kept using them silently, and stopped trying to post it everywhere all over again and get 'noobs' to use it, often on devices that aren't compatible and when they screw up turn to me for support and to fix things, perhaps then I wouldn't need to make a fuss about it, because it doesn't cost me to have them around?
Anyways, I'm done discussing this. Believe what you will, the world is full with people like you why cry when other people stop giving things away. That's greed on your part.
ThyAbode said:
I just installed WMWiFiRouter (http://www.wmwifirouter.com/) trail version and liked pretty much. Would like to buy a license if someone can clarify my questions:
1- Is WMWiFiRouter Legal according to the service providers? I'm with ATT
2- Is anyone who is already using could share their reviews
3- Will ATT objects for WMWiFiRouter usage? Obviously I will be using for web browsing and not for downloads.
Thanks Folks !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a regular user of WMWifiROuter for more than half a year now. I ofcourse purchased the software after it stopped being free. I am not going to get into the debate about the selling of the software and will limit my comments to my technical knowledge of the product.
Well, its a lifesaver for me and the two other co-workers of mine who all use my HSDPA connection to surf.
Now, that said, it is unfortunately not a 100% stable piece of software. The version that I use is 1.11, which is the last version before the total re-write. The current version (1.25) is bloated in comparison and even less stable than the "classic" versions.
So, with 1.11 I can keep a connection going for half an hour or so, then all sessions get cut, and the connection goes down. Keep hitting reload in Firefox and eventually the pages will load again, or maybe not, then the best thing to do is to stop WMWifiRouter and start it again. This is ofcourse not very cool for SSH session and other interactive tasks. For the web in general its a tolerable hassle.
Compare this to plain old Internet Sharing via the native WM 6.1 tool (via USB), which is rather stable and just runs fine more or less.
So, yes, I use the software every day, and without it I'd really be in a bind, but its fair to say its not a finished solution and unfortunately the re-write didn't help any. This is important to keep in mind if you need to do interactive work on-line.
Here's hoping they get it to run better on the Raphael. [Interestingly, on my Kaiser it ran much much more stable, but back then it was all the 1.X versions, so I can't comment how 1.2X works with a Kaiser. But who cares? On the Kaiser it works great. On the Raph, it is as I have said.]
-Z
Isriam said:
.....making mods lock topics or remove links to your previous versions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I STRONGLY suggest you take this next sentence under advisement:
Moderators on this forum are not MADE to do anything, threads and links are removed/locked for the good of the forum, end of story. If you believe us moderators are in someway controlled by burocracy feel free to contact the admin and air your views.
AND a word of caution to anyone else deciding to post WAREZ, we made an example in this thread already, ANYONE found posting WAREZ will be banned from the forum for a considerable term.
Isriam said:
I never once said you couldn't sell your software, upgrade your software, or spend time adding features. I said you were greedy for demanding all previous freeware versions removed from all sites and calling anyone who uses a freeware version a thief. 0.91 was released as freeware and as such you should have no problem with anyone sharing it or using it. You're making it sound like using 0.91 is against the law and anyone doing so must pay to use 1.25.
For the record I invest thousands of hours in coding and software as well and make plenty of money doing so. I just believe that when you release shareware or freeware, that you should understand one day you may wish to market your software and older, less featured software may still be available because YOU decided to release it early.
This is a classic case of greed. If someone wants a full featured fully working platform, make them pay for it. But if they decide they can live with your freeware, first trial public versions, then why be an ass about it? And yes, I've read about you going around demanding sites remove your previous versions, and making mods lock topics or remove links to your previous versions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do believe you have not an idea what the hell you are talking about.
You come off as being frustrated that a product took off and in turn was made into a commercial product that you have to NOW pay for. If you code software for a living you would know this FIRST hand.
Capitalism is great my friend.......
robp23 said:
I do believe you have not an idea what the hell you are talking about.
You come off as being frustrated that a product took off and in turn was made into a commercial product that you have to NOW pay for. If you code software for a living you would know this FIRST hand.
Capitalism is great my friend.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea you're right. I mean, I even have a purchased copy of wmwifirouter 1.25.
Zn0rt said:
I am a regular user of WMWifiROuter for more than half a year now. I ofcourse purchased the software after it stopped being free. I am not going to get into the debate about the selling of the software and will limit my comments to my technical knowledge of the product.
Well, its a lifesaver for me and the two other co-workers of mine who all use my HSDPA connection to surf.
Now, that said, it is unfortunately not a 100% stable piece of software. The version that I use is 1.11, which is the last version before the total re-write. The current version (1.25) is bloated in comparison and even less stable than the "classic" versions.
So, with 1.11 I can keep a connection going for half an hour or so, then all sessions get cut, and the connection goes down. Keep hitting reload in Firefox and eventually the pages will load again, or maybe not, then the best thing to do is to stop WMWifiRouter and start it again. This is ofcourse not very cool for SSH session and other interactive tasks. For the web in general its a tolerable hassle.
Compare this to plain old Internet Sharing via the native WM 6.1 tool (via USB), which is rather stable and just runs fine more or less.
So, yes, I use the software every day, and without it I'd really be in a bind, but its fair to say its not a finished solution and unfortunately the re-write didn't help any. This is important to keep in mind if you need to do interactive work on-line.
Here's hoping they get it to run better on the Raphael. [Interestingly, on my Kaiser it ran much much more stable, but back then it was all the 1.X versions, so I can't comment how 1.2X works with a Kaiser. But who cares? On the Kaiser it works great. On the Raph, it is as I have said.]
-Z
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Zn0rt. Did you ever monitored your usage of Data Plan? I'm just concerned about ATT knowing about this. Anyways, I will be using only when I need not every time.
Today, when I went to Sakajati's website to check the release of his new WM6.5 ROM, I was totally depressed and completely lost the mood to flash this brand new ROM, after I read this brief intro:
sakajati
May 4th, 2009 at 5:59 am
Sorry guys for being away, I’ve been under stress due to financial problem. The business is getting worse and worse, I’m afraid I won’t be able to support this website anymore and may also have to sell my device (God I hope this won’t happend). To all hyperdragon users, please consider to support/donate, it may help me so I don’t have to sell this crapy device. Thanks in advance! Enjoy this new rom and let me know for any bugs you found!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was exactly the same feeling when yesterday I passed by Mirko Schenk's website and read this:
I aten't ded (12/05/2008, 10:00 PM)
Yeah, I know, I'm a bit slow with updates recently. Somehow, when I wasn't missing free time, all too often I was missing motivation (no, that's not begging for donations) to struggly with the pitfalls of programming after I struggled with them in my job before. And this even though there's currently no girl friend that threadens me when I'd spend more time on my PC than with her. (But admitted, she'd probably wouldn't need to threaden me... )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sakajati, a famouse ROM cooker for Kaiser, his Hyperdragon ROM thread in this forum has received 11,178 repplies and 1,574,596 views up to now. Yes, not mistaken, it's more than 1.5 milllion views. Is he brilliant? The numbers speak for themselves.
Mirko Schenk, the name may not much known to public. But if I talk about Mort, every chefs here knows who he is. One of his small programs named 'Mortscript' is now cooked in many of the custom ROMs on this site. Is he brilliant? You can ask every chef here, I guess you'll get the same answer:'Yes, he is VERY brillant.'
These two guys are only examples of many of the brilliant stars here. They all have these two same characters as I know: First, their softwares are all FREE. I.e, they supply free service to pubic without asking any material support from users. Second, I am regret to say, they are all VERY POOR now.
Well, I believe, that the initial puppose of their developing these wares are not for money. I also believe that they would like to continue this cause even if they can not receive one single coin from it, even if they maintain a poor living condition for his own life, they just enjoy it.
On the other hand, have to say this: It is ULTIMATE FORTUNE for a man, that in his life he can find something he likes, he is good at, he did it, and finally he fighted to clime to top of the line. BUT, it is an ULTIMATE UNFORTUNE for him that after he did this, he only found his life is 'worsen and worsen'.
Yes a man's value is not only reallize his own joy, he also has to be responsible for his beloves, his family, his girlfiend, or even his pet. This is the reason they may decide to drop this loved cause and find something else to do. And finally they may be driven out from this society.
Now the question comes: Can we do something to rescue them out of this situation?
Yes, we can donate to their PayPal account.
BUT, to donate to a paypal account is not always convienient for everybody that want to help them.
Actually, there are other much better ways, but the forum rules here does not support it. Like this: Why not allow them to put a simple advertisement on their signature?
Like this one (I found in this thread):
iPhone ... its a maxipad without wings!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that viewers can support them by a simple click of their mouse, which will bring a small money for them? Say in Sakajati's case, he has 1.5 million viewers, onlyif 10% of viewers would make a click on the ad, and only if each click can just bring $0.1 for them. That will collect to an amount of $15,000. Which will greatly enhance their life, at lest let them keep the 'crapy device'.
Don't tell me this is impossible for this forum. We have so many super-smart brains here. Actually can set some rules or systems to avoid any 'side effects' of it, like rules on the size, layout, postion, etc of the ad. Who can use it, who can not etc.
Yes, this great forum place should become a worm home for all telents in this line.
MODs: Can you discuss on this issue?
First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.
Chainfire said:
First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank for your attention on tjis issue. There must be a solution for that, at least not 'completely impossible.
But the circut of money in 'ads' industry. Is just like 'everybody follow the rules here'.
Since the activities concerning 'advertising' may become a key factor in judgement of this issue. Here I add some more info. There are books about 'advertisement', or lots of internet materials available, but probably not everyone has time to read it. Let me just tell what is advertisement in this simple way:
The major target of ads is not to reach people who want the product, because people wants it already knows it. It is targeted to those people who doesn't want it, or even doesn't know it. Advertisement will let them know the product, and MAKE (sorry I use this word) them reallize that they want it.
This is why ads sponsors would be glad to pay even for a mouse click and a slight glance at what they are advertising. At least this make the clicker have a short memery about their brand name, or their product idea.
After read this, you may feel somehow uncomfortble about 'ads'. But sorry, this is just the prevailing commercial activity.
Please Post Your Comments on This Issue!
Anybody pass by here and reading this, if you have some opinion, comments, or different idea about this issue, please post here.
Maybe you are freeware developer, or commercial software developer, or common user, or moderator, it doesn't matter. What I'm thinking about is not trying to persuade the forum board to issue a new advertising policy, really need to be concerned is how to help those GREAT freeware developers OUT. Avertisement is just the best way that I can figure out by myself. But maybe you guys have better idea about this issue.
Here appeal to everybody:
If you are using a freeware, and find it's really helpful, or may bring additional conveineince and joy to your life. Please think about the life of the developer of the freeware. And first please consider a DONATION to them, if you can not, please think about what else you can do.
Everybody please leave your voice here, maybe we can work out a way together!
Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.
Chainfire said:
Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Certainly yours will be a nice place with lots of chef want to take a look. I went there and found some projects not known to me in the past. Before I only know WMWifiRouter's from you, later WMLongLife, but that's already enough to call you a Master. Now you're master++.
Also noted that you already sent donation confirmation code on Sakajati's site.
You built a nice blog.
Hi all. I've decided to try and make some future Microsoft product "my idea", so I've submitted the following letter to them via billg [at] microsoft [dit] com. I just wanted to know if you guys had any input.
Flaming is sure to happen, and while I won't argue with you, I will probably wish your firstborn child is used as a shot put.
Dear Microsoft,
Lately I’ve been bombarded with commercial after commercial showing random people (and their self perceptions) stating that Windows 7 was their idea for one reason or another. I’m not completely disgusted by these or anything, but it started my mind on one of those winding roads a character in a story might have to take to get home, or to the girl, or to the climax, or… well I guess that is kind of repetitious – but the point is, I started thinking about the variety of Microsoft’s operating systems and the history they’ve had – rather, our history together.
I’ve used just about everything Microsoft has created… I started my computer “education” by soldering a few broken parts back together on a Commodore 64 I found in a dump, and then learning BASIC on it (the BASIC on the Commodore 64 was a variant created and licensed by Microsoft). Right now, I’m typing this in Microsoft Word, on a laptop that has Microsoft Windows Vista, being distracted by a cellular phone that runs Microsoft Windows Phone 6.5.
That was a mouthful when I read it aloud.
But the reason for this letter is not so much a history lesson, but a worry of what is to come. It seems the goal over there the past few years is some cross between being different and being more like Macintosh, or Google, or insert company name here, and I’m here to state that I don’t like the transformation the publicists and tech news sites are ranting and raving about.
A few examples?
- Most recently must be the attempt to remove the clipboard features from my phone. I say “attempt”, because I am willing to bet that will be brought back, either by you or some developers out there.
- Office 2007’s menu structure looks like someone tried to “make it better” and ruined it.
- Windows Vista and Windows 7 both look like some kind of cross-dressing Microsoft product who was “supposed to be a Mac”.
What happens when you become so close to the competition that nobody can tell you apart? Developers and IT teams may not like parts of Windows, but they are able adjust most of what they don’t like to work for them. If this path continues, and all of the contenders out there do the exact same thing, you’re really shooting yourselves in the collective foot by taking away your uniqueness.
I guess what I’m really trying to say is “different” does not equal “better”. Get back to your roots and make something that your current audience will buy. Put them above the “new customers” you’re trying to reach. It’s the same error that many companies make nowadays – neglecting the long time customers for some new ones. You end up losing great customers that way.
See, I am a man. There’s an expression stating that men marry women expecting them to be the same, and women marry men expecting that they’ll change. I feel like Microsoft is giving in to the women out there – the ones who complain about it being too hard to use or not pretty enough – and we have enough of that already. I’m not trying to hate on women out there, but maybe the movie Team America explained it best… something about assholes, dicks, and ******* (I won’t go into it, but watch the movie if you need an explanation). What we need is for Microsoft to be a **** again.
Good luck and happy creating,
(Name Removed)
P.S. This email was sent using Microsoft Outlook.
Thanks in advance for any feedback,
Drunk
oooh nice
so did they reply back and what did the email say?
anyway nice letter
no replies yet, but I just sent it last night.
Mad props for Team America reference =P
the whole my idea is just a commercial not a real deal imho
http://gizmodo.com/5477384/windows-7-was-my-idea-but-to-be-fair-i-dont-know-what-im-talking-about
I don't doubt that it is just a big marketing gimick, but I wanted to explain that it looks like they are listening to people's ideas - just the wrong ones.
I'm waiting for them to show the ads on TV which make the claim that W7 has fewer clicks so I can report it to the ASA.
Starting a program like solitaire with the mouse is either the same number (if you don't mind a 2 second wait) or one more click than XP/Vista.
As for getting to the network card properties that's a heck of a lot more clicks than Vista or XP.
W7 has some very well thought out features, but unfortunately it's got more that just aren't.
I hate MS for putting me in a position where I have to say I prefer Vista! Damn them! Damn them to Hades!
WM7 looks awful, and the restrictions they're putting on it make no user or business sense.
Office 2007 is appauling, what were they thinking? Why make an application which users have to refer to google in order to complete simple common tasks?
Don't expect a reply, Drunk, at least something that isn't just generically polite and thanking you for your thoughtful input.
You blended good points that resonate with much of their shrinking user base, made up partly by people who have no idea they're running Microsoft and also in part by people who are obsessed with modifying them, with that bit on genitals. They're not interested in us anymore, nor would they want to add a lot of attention to your letter by giving you something from them to paste on and spread around. They want to intercept people from buying the other phones with no regard to who's already buying their own phones, and you can't really blame them considering how fast they're still falling (down 4% last quarter) toward obscurity.
Just to offer myself as an example of others reading what you just posted and what may be on their own minds, considering I made two websites about the damn thing, I'd say I was a bonafide WinMo fanatic, one of the last expected to say adios, but I just did, a Nexus One, and not only will I continue to love and go nuts with it I will attempt to take others with me. It's brewing right here on XDA, the place you'd think would be the haven mainly for people who like to do what can mostly only be done exclusively with WinMo phones.
Actually I read this by mistake, forgot to get rid of all my WinMo rss feeds on Google Reader to which my phone's synced. Good read though, glad you posted it. So thanks.
But no matter how much rabble you rouse here nor what signs you wave in front of their Seattle office you won't stop this train, the general direction of which they've made it clear that they are taking with WP7 being mostly the opposite of what a lot of us want. They can't please everyone and they'd rather please would-otherwise-be customers of their competitors even at the expense of estranging themselves from part of their existing customers. On the bright side, in addition to there being other options (specifically the one I took), they claim they'll keep supporting existing versions of WinMo for at least a while, though not forever on new devices I don't think which will have unique hardware that if I heard correctly won't even have removable storage, not to mention any support for decentralized application distribution. You don't like the sound of what's coming but what's coming is in their opinion good for business and I suppose mine too. When you're already failing at this rate in such a critical time of penetrating a huge market with enormous potential that will be realized further and further every day, it's hard to come up with a dumb idea on how to do things differently. Not to mention I've seen quite a few extremists shrug off each new bit of bad news saying Whatever I'll still try it, and once they do, then Microsoft has got them for at least a long enough period of time to figure out how to keep them hooked while they intercept little bits of business from the others. Right now they're handing business away. It's a joke.
Making sure the likes of you and others on sites like XDA remain happy customers as they implement these drastic changes to their mobile operations is not high up on their to do list.
Just sayin'.
Doug
Can't say I don't agree with you on most of that. I honestly don't expect much of a reply... at most a blanket letter or something like that. I've also been working my way to other vendors. I've got some android variant on my TP2 now and Ubuntu on my laptop (both still dual boots, but it's a step that direction). I just didn't want it all to happen without my 2 cents' worth being thrown at them.
Thanks for stopping by.
I hear you man, I'm all about ranting. This and this in particular. Also this.
Take a look at that and mobilitydigest.com (basically the same with a less weird domain), you'd make a great writer. Perfect style, perfect background (impressive by the way), perfect fire in your belly. We can't yet offer you money but what we can give you is an audience. Let me know.
"but I wanted to explain that it looks like they are listening to people's ideas - just the wrong ones."
yeah with the whole win phone 7 seeming like being a copy of the features of org iphone sure sounds like they are getting bad advice