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Tilt vs iPhone

I bought an iphone about 6 days ago and had nothing but 6 days worth of trouble with the phone. I only just got it working about 8 hours ago after 6 days of phone calls to at7t and apple. Each group whether it was the att store, apple store, att 800 techs or apple 800 techs would point to the other as the source of the problem and so on. What a joke. At any rate the phone is now working and I had a massive oh shiit moment just now. The iPhone does not support VOIP which is the primary reason why I started to look for smart phones. In all my confusion between the wing, the tilt and the iphone I somehow skipped over the fact that att doesnt offer voip. T-mobile does but it costs 20 dollars a month. If I take on a data plan its another 20 dollars a month. On top of that I have to get minutes but I'm affraid that even at the cheapest/lowest minutes plan, my final bill would be around 100 dollars for my phone alone. My wifes phone (non-data no wifi) would add another 50 dollars I'm sure.
The thing is, after all the newness wore off on the iphone and finally getting it working, I'm not all that impressed with it. It keeps switching off the wifi and going to EDGE which is way slower and there doesnt appear to be an easy way to switch it back. The latest firmwares for the iphone dont allow for third party applications which means I would have to pay through the nose to get apple authorized apps. I dont like the fact that you pretty much have to have an apple computer to do anything tricky with the phone. All the cool hacking tools and ring tone downloaders are built for use on apple computers. Windows for the iphone is an afterthought. On top off all of that, I am having to break my t-mobile contract. If I break it alone its 200 dollars but then my wife ends up with a large family plan thats twice more then she needs and yet the price stays the same. Our bill will pretty much double once the iphone bill starts to come in. If she changes her plan to a lower cost, she locks in another 2 year agreement with t-mobile. If we both break the contract its 400 bones and she isnt keen on that idea and wont do it. This leaves us to lie about us getting shipped off to IRAQ and hopefully we can get out of the contract for free. If not, then I may have to stay with t-mobile and ditch the iphone out of lack of options.
If I am able to ditch my t-mobile accounts then I have a choice to make. Do I stick with the iphone or go for the TILT? The Tilt looks like its just as powerfull if not more so then the iphone. The iphone storage might be more but I can get big memory cards for it. I really like the TILTS price, good through tomorrow. 250 to 300 depending on discounts which is the same as the iphone. I know I can do t-mobiles hot spot plan but maybe I can use other VOIP software for free? The iphone doesnt support flash so I cant run google talk and instead have to run meebo which although is nice, it isnt as nice as the full version. I hate having to leave the webpage up full time to run the program.
I like the Tilts windows os. It seems more open source to me then the iphone. So what phone would you go with given the choice?

Does the tilt support google talk? Iphone doest because it doesnt have support for java or flash. Does the tilt support flash and java applications?

In general, iPhone is good for its multimedia capabilities (music and video). On the other hand, if you seek for productivities and features, then you should go to Tilt I believe.

the tilt/kaiser/p4550/tytn ii has support for flash and java yes
i'm unfamiliar with the gtalk mobile application but i don't see any reason for it not to work as it supports other voip platforms

The Tilt simply needs another application to use google talk. I use either Palringo or Fring, both of which are free, and both will work with google talk, MSN Messenger, Yahoo messenger, etc.

cayotte said:
In general, iPhone is good for its multimedia capabilities (music and video). On the other hand, if you seek for productivities and features, then you should go to Tilt I believe.
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Me and my wife bought new phones week ago - she got an iPhone I got Tilt:
If u r looking for something that seamlessly works out of the box and has no issues at all - then Iphone is clear choice. However all of us here know that if thing works flawlessly out of the box it is no fun .... I bought Tilt because GPS mostly - so far works like charm with TOMTOM 6. Considering that cheapest GPS navigator costs mere $200 and I got tilt with my company discount for $150 choice was clear for me. On the other hand iPhone looks and feels quite "feminine" (Just look at default wallpapers)

I thought long and hard about this choice and decided to take the iPhone back. It cost me a 10 percent restocking fee but i think in the end I will be happier with the tilt. I have had to call AT&T twice now since having the phone and everyone of the agents has said something like. "oh wow, nice phone. I really want one of those." So even At&t seems to think its pretty cool. Thanks for the advice.
One of my calls by the way was to see if they would give me the unlock code so that I could use it on T-mobile. They said no problem but it would take 5 to 7 days to get it since the phone was new and they didnt have it in their records yet. At any rate, they are going to email it to me so hopefully I can have it unlocked inside a week for free.

I've had about 5 hours with this phone now and for lack of better terminology I will just simply state that I have been half erect for the entire time. This phone rocks and so kicks the iphones ass. I've been able to get google talk going so I can chat with my wife at work, I have been able to make google talk calls using voip which is totally free (if you don't count the $50 fee for fios or the $80 voice and date charges for the phone, haha) and just now I have gotten the GPS going with google maps. I didn't even know it had GPS. I'm not a poster child for google or anything but their stuff works and it's all I know about right now. I'm sure I will find more apps eventually.
The thing I want to work on now is emulators and roms. I need to get some games going on here now.
For some reason the wifi was a tool in setting up. I couldn't understand why the applications wouldn't connect using wifi after I set the wifi connection up. I ended up having to tell the phone that my wifi was a work connection and then in the connection manager tell all applications to use my work isp. It was bizarre to say the least. I'm not sure how this is going to work though when I get on the road. Am I going to have to tell the phone that all wifi connections belong to my work isp? It seems odd to me that the connections manager wouldn't simply have an option to use wifi as the primary means of connecting to the internet and if thats not available then use G3 or whatever its called.
I'm much happier with this phone then I am with the iPhone. I'm just not into audio and video enough to think its a good phone. I already have a 60 gig ipod and although its nice to have in my car, I certainly dont live and breath all things apple, not by a long shot. Cool phone this Kaiser/Tilt to say the least.

If VoIP is what you are after, then I don't see how the Tilt will make it for you. In fact, as far as I know, all VoIP applications (including Fring, Skype and the WM6 VoIP client) are only able to transmit sound through the speakerphone, rather than the earpiece. Which is totally pointless to me! Isn't this your experience?
I have found that the only decent choice for VoIP usage are Nokia smartphones (E series phones), which have a great emebedded VoIP functionality that works with any SIP-based VoIP service, or they can work with Fring, and have access to SIP, Skype, Google Talk and MSN all at the same time, and all through the earpiece. And they can keep WiFi up and running for at least two days without discharging the battery. And will connect to 3G automatically when WiFi is not available any longer, and back. I have seen no Windows Mobile device being able to do these things, and this is why I am so struggling to go back to Windows Mobile after trying Symbian (Nokia).

prodaytrader said:
Does the tilt support google talk? Iphone doest because it doesnt have support for java or flash. Does the tilt support flash and java applications?
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If you google for a program called Octrotalk, install it, voila! Googletalk! Great program and it works well with every ROM that I've flashed.

about contracts
yeah the iphone isnt that great and if you wait a 3g iphone is coming, but on another note, DO NOT say you are being deported overseas, just have your wife call and say you died. or viseversa most of the time policy will ask for proof but if you put up a fight over it and the customer service rep has a heart they will cave in. its a pretty touchy subject that most people dont wanna walk around. worked for me more than once.

tomtom6 & tomtom7 Legal?

Okay I did search and I have seen it posted BOTH ways I am not a big fan of hacked cracked or Warez apps right now I am running a rom that come bundled with tomtom6 I then installed tomtom7 from the post here but when I went to download the freeby map and voices I got a weird error so I popped over to tomtom.com and my version doesn't seem to be legal before I yank it out can someone tell me once and for all if I am legal ?

I suppose the blunt answer is that if a) you haven't paid TomTom money for the software, or b) the software wasn't included in an official ROM on your device for 'trial' purposes; then you are outside terms of the licence - in simple terms, not legal.
There is however reasonable grounds for debate given that TomTom seem to be forgetting the PDA community to ever more significant levels. That's particularly out of order when you consider that it was really PDA users that put TomTom on the map (no pun intended) and really helped the consumer satellite navigation system market flourish into the extremely lucrative enterprise it now is.
The situation we're in now is that we've bank-rolled a good portion of TomTom's discreet product development, and indeed commercial success; and it seems our party-invites are being forgotten...
At the end of the day the product development and channel support for PDA users is shrinking more and more. The only real way to have a chance (and it's not guaranteed) of owning up-to-date (and therefore really useful) TomTom sat nav for your PDA is if you happen to buy one of only a handful of devices which fall inside the remit of the deal TomTom did with HTC. The next kick in the nuts is when you find out that even though you own a perfectly capable device, manufactured by the company who are in bed with TomTom, you still don't automatically join the party because the chances are you got your Diamond/Kaiser/Whatever from your Telco; and re-brands of device and software don't fall inside the same deal.
So, Mr A with his ageing but still capable iPaq can't buy a recent version of Navigator and a map for it because PDA software isn't out in the channel. And also Mr B, who owns a shiny-new Kaiser, but may have got it in the form of a Vaio III from T-Mobile, or a Tilt from those lovely folks over the pond, also can't get the software; again even though it is in existence, simply because they got their HTC manufactured (and the key point here is that HTC still made their £££, it was just T-Mobile/AT&T/Orange/whoever signing the cheque rather than Mr B himself) from a Telco because it worked out to be £0-£100 for the device rather than £300-500 to buy it 'SIM free'. The fact that TomTom are slowly and quietly dropping their PDA customers winds me up enough, but the fact a good number of HTC customers are excluded from the ever-shrinking party simply because their Telco subsidised part of the purchase price of the device makes it even worse.
So, relatively up-to-date versions of TomTom navigator for PDAs do exist, as do relatively up-to-date maps and extras (traffic/safety camera subscriptions). The only problem is that even if you want to, it's near impossible to spend your money on them.
Does this make TomTom a bunch of clowns for still putting some resource into development but at the same time slamming the door on a large number of loyal users who would still quite happily help them recoup or even profit on those costs, absolutely. Should they be surprised if some people find other ways around those obstacles when pound-notes fail, probably not. Does that make it ethical - it's debatable (but for the sake of this great site's legal-footing, that debate can't really take place here. ...Does it make it legal, alas no.
So, for the black-and-white legal position on the matter, read the first paragraph again. Anything beyond that I think is up to the individual, who has to decide whether they'll risk/be prepared for/accept any potential consequences of other actions which fall outside of TomTom's frankly ridiculous position.
I can't help wondering what the blinkered-idiots at TomTom are thinking on this issue. As far as I can see they currently have product available, and there's no real reason why that can't continue for the forseeable future given that most of the development cost will still be incurred if they only shipped discreet devices (ie, it can't cost that much extra to make sure there's a pretty recent PDA version living alongside their discreet products); BUT, they've more or less completely closed every route to market. Which Mickey Mouse school of business did these chumps go to? Yes, I see the point that they stand to make more money by selling you a Go! 940 Live than a software-only product for your PDA; but I for one certainly won't go running out to buy a 940 (or its descendant) if all possibility of my running an up-to-date version on my PDA ceases. I think I'll be feeling alienated enough to give my money to Navman, Garmin or any of the others first. Likewise they could, and should have enough confidence in their own discreet products to see that there are USPs differentiating both markets - some folks just one a gadget to do sat nav, and nothing else, they want it to be integrated and simple, with more focus on certain aspects of specification. On the other hand some folks will always have the need for a PDA, and would prefer not to have a rucksack full of electronics to carry with us - OK, we might not get all the benefits of a discreet sat nav unit; but if it's that way or the highway (again, no pun intended, I'm just one damn funny guy ), why exclude our money from your coffers.
Anyway, in short; you're probably a little outside of licensing and copyright law; but at the moment it's probably fair to say that TomTom have left us out in the cold to some degree, so you should just feel the force/go with your heart/<insert other suitable cliché here>...
Rant over.
Love and hugs (to everyone apart from TomTom's marketeers),
Rob.

Write to TomTom and let the boss know what you think
FactionOne said:
TomTom seem to be forgetting the PDA community to ever more significant levels.
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I know what you mean and (after several unsatifying phonecalls to the company) I recently sent their big cheese (at HQ in the Netherlands) a letter about it. Sometimes buying a dedicated TomTom device just isn't an answer - for example I use my TyTN II for navigation on my bicycle (using a TyTN II handlebar mount) and on foot alot of the time so there's no way I'm going to carry around a 12 volt battery just to power a dedicated, comparitively bulky, TomTom device.
I suggest you write to them as well, The addresses and manager/supervisor names and positions are all on their website. I'd be happy with TomTom Navigator 6 if it weren't for the fact the map I have (which is the latest available) is very outdated and it doesn't support map share or any other similar way of getting any sort of update. I refuse to pay for a product thats not officially supported (eg buying a map for an illegal version of TTN7 on a Kaiser) so I'm just making do with TTN 6 and my purchased compatible map, the rest of my money is staying in my wallet.
You are correct in that it is a glaring example of missed marketing opportunities. Perhaps given their tremendous growth in recent times, they are getting to big for their boots and think they can shape the market to suit their ideal, to a greater extent than they really can? They need to watch out or people will go with the competition.

I beleive their reasoning is that they're fed up of piracy. A bit silly really considering they're making piracy the only option.

Absolutely agree with everything posted here.
I have paid for TomTom Nav 6, the most up-to-date maps (early 2007), extra voices, Speed Camera & Traffic subscriptions - and have now been told it's no longer supported (they will not be issuing new maps).
I have raised support calls & spoken to them on the phone - they agree this is now obsolete and they have no plans to release TomTom 7 in this country (UK). They even said if you have TomTom 7 in the UK it's an illegal copy!
I want my money back. I was told there would be 4 map updates every year - there was only 1 update after I bought the software.
Having said all that, I am struggling to find a viable alternative. I need to traffic to make it worthwhile (as I do the same trips most days, but need traffic warnings due to motorway snarl-ups).
I'm v.impressed with the trial of Navigon MN7 - but there seems to be no way of getting TMC traffic on the Kaiser in the UK (outstanding support call with Navigon as well now...).
If anyone finds an alternative, please let me know.
I really don't understand TomTom's position on this. They have a market leading product and now choose to pull out of the market - at exactly the point you would expect the PDA solution to supercede the traditional separate unit. In my company we looking to stop using 250 TomTom units and repace them with an integrated PDA solution - so TomTom will (eventually) lose out big-style. They seem to be shooting themselves in the foot.

CoPilot Live 7 is one alternative that was bundled with some Kaisers
Ramsfan_Jim said:
If anyone finds an alternative, please let me know.
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CoPilot Live 7 works on the Kaiser, indeed some UK providers bundled the two together. I have no personal experience of the product so I don't know how up to date their maps are but CoPilot maps are provided by a different company to TomToms maps (Navteq vs TeleAtlas respectively) and fewer countries/regions are covered at the moment compared to TomTom, I'm sure a search here and on google will yield lots of results.
As for getting your money back, see if you can find some documentation showing they said there'd be 4 maps a year, then talk to the C.A.B. or your Trading Standards Office - good luck with that
I think you also have lots of good points that'd be best dealt with via a letter or Fax to the company boss. If they REALLY want to get out of that section of the market due to piracy issues, it's throwing out the baby with the bath water. Instead they should be looking at improving security and making the product less easy to steal - perhaps by using activation for BOTH the software AND maps.

FactionOne said:
Anyway, in short; you're probably a little outside of licensing and copyright law; but at the moment it's probably fair to say that TomTom have left us out in the cold to some degree, so you should just feel the force/go with your heart/<insert other suitable cliché here>...
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Thanks for the clarification and for soothing my conscience...

Flying Kiwi said:
CoPilot Live 7 works on the Kaiser, indeed some UK providers bundled the two together. I have no personal experience of the product so I don't know how up to date their maps are but CoPilot maps are provided by a different company to TomToms maps (Navteq vs TeleAtlas respectively) and fewer countries/regions are covered at the moment compared to TomTom, I'm sure a search here and on google will yield lots of results.
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I have spoken to ALK regarding switching to CoPilot, but was told their maps are also over 18 months old, and they will not be releasing updates for CoPilot 7. They could not give me a date for CoPilot 8, but if they do not issue map updates, then it will be exactly the same problem as TomTom i.e. It will become obsolete.

Ramsfan_Jim said:
I have spoken to ALK regarding switching to CoPilot, but was told their maps are also over 18 months old,
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I could only dream of having a TomTom map thats age is in months rather than years!
they will not be releasing updates for CoPilot 7.
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Maybe not program updates but the map would still be newer to start with (although in fairness I've not compared the two in the areas where TomToms maps have things wrong).
They could not give me a date for CoPilot 8, but if they do not issue map updates, then it will be exactly the same problem as TomTom i.e. It will become obsolete.
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Most importantly, they've also not said they'll be releasing future versions only bundled with devices. This means if you're keen for the absolute latest and greatest maps and you're willing to pay, they'll still be providing suitable products - not something that can be said of TomTom.

Google adds free turn-by-turn navigation, car dock UI to Android 2.0

Worth noting this one, not really out for the dream yet, more of something to look forward to.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/28/google-adds-free-turn-by-turn-navigation-car-dock-ui-to-android/

Cute, but unfortunately, it required a data plan -- at least for rerouting (if you stay on route, it uses cache), which is the most important use-case for GPS nav.

Official post by Google including pictures and videos: http://www.google.com/mobile/navigation/index.html#p=default

lbcoder said:
Cute, but unfortunately, it required a data plan
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If you don't have a dataplan (or some other way to give your phone internet connectivity) there's no way Google Navigation will be able to perform voice search, street view, real-time traffic, or anything else that differentiates this from a standard nav device or nav software.

aad4321 said:
if you dont have a data plan on your android phone, go sit in the corner of the room and cry, because you are an idiot.
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lamo
and +1

im just waiting to read about how our wonderful dream wont be able to run 2.0
once again, F*** verizon and the horse they rode in on. Tmo shoulda done everything possible to get the moto droid.

aad4321 said:
if you dont have a data plan on your android phone, go sit in the corner of the room and cry, because you are an idiot.
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lol words right out of my mouth..

aad4321 said:
if you dont have a data plan on your android phone, go sit in the corner of the room and cry, because you are an idiot.
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Exactly i was just trying to be good and keep my mouth shut

While I agree that its pretty pointless to have a G1 without a dataplan, I will say that TMO's network is not equal in all areas. I can barely get edge where I am so while this will be great for those fortunate enough to stay in 3g, people without 3g or travel frequently to non 3g areas may need an offline solution.

So whats a guy gotta do to get this navigation on his g1? i have no patience!! we need this app!!
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I use CoPilot and I've been happy since day1. Everything happens/is stored locally so its great for those with limited/no data coverage. I did notice that it refuses to find Burger King though. Haven't tried McDonald's though....

after seeing tomtom and garmins stocks take a tumble i cant shake the evil feeling that crept down my spine. its cool that googs is giving us these cool things but competition is good for consumers to have.

xavier6303 said:
While I agree that its pretty pointless to have a G1 without a dataplan, I will say that TMO's network is not equal in all areas. I can barely get edge where I am so while this will be great for those fortunate enough to stay in 3g, people without 3g or travel frequently to non 3g areas may need an offline solution.
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Well being that your location is Lancaster, PA, there's no wonder why you barely get edge signal. That's damn Amish country..u know them people don't have running water, much less cell phones. I used to live in Allentown, PA and my uncle lives in Lancaster. I used to hate them trips to Lancaster. Move into civilization then maybe you can enjoy the wonders of 3G!

xavier6303 said:
I use CoPilot and I've been happy since day1. Everything happens/is stored locally so its great for those with limited/no data coverage. I did notice that it refuses to find Burger King though. Haven't tried McDonald's though....
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Ditto here....use and was happy with CoPilot, however, have said on here and other forums that Google simply needed to man-up and take that last step to provide realtime navigation and they'd put everyone else out of the market.
Looks like that just happened.
However, I will be keeping CoPilot as I do often travel into areas with *zero* coverage. Driving between north Edwards AFB, CA and Las Vegas at night is a bit hair raising. No signals out there, much less even EDGE.

Paging Dr B said:
after seeing tomtom and garmins stocks take a tumble i cant shake the evil feeling that crept down my spine. its cool that googs is giving us these cool things but competition is good for consumers to have.
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Or you could say that their stocks were overvalued to begin with? This is competition at its finest, if you ask me.

They are playng some shady games with them stocks if you ask me.
It's kinda pointless having a navigation that requires data connection, I mean - it's GPS - you might want to go offroad and loose 2G/3g or whatever GSM signal. You'd also consider to go abroad not paying attention you are roaming (you know, being an average user) and when you come back - SNAP - a 10000$ bill... Oh, and I don't have a data plan, I'm crying in the corner.
The presentation video was amazing and really got me wow-ed. However, if you are somewhere in the woods, without data coverage, you might wanna shake the dust off that old NUVI you are keeping, just in case...

julez456 said:
Well being that your location is Lancaster, PA, there's no wonder why you barely get edge signal. That's damn Amish country..u know them people don't have running water, much less cell phones. I used to live in Allentown, PA and my uncle lives in Lancaster. I used to hate them trips to Lancaster. Move into civilization then maybe you can enjoy the wonders of 3G!
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Well, I just moved to Lancaster in July. Before that, I lived in Atlanta and was enjoying great 3g speeds. My wife is from this area so...we are here now.
aad4321 said:
yeah, i have that...but i mean come on...its google....ITS GOOGLE! im sure its going to be amazing.
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True True and native and free (relatively speaking) is always better
aad4321 said:
they have 3G in lancaster now lol...
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I saw that they have Lancaster listed as a 3g area on their coverage map but I still have yet to find it...the ever elusive 3g! I get pretty good edge when Im out and about though so Im not really complaining. I would just love to have 3g while Im in bed for those... "I wonder..." moments.

xavier6303 said:
Well, I just moved to Lancaster in July. Before that, I lived in Atlanta and was enjoying great 3g speeds. My wife is from this area so...we are here now.
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Sorry to hear that..don't run into any horse-drawn carriages out there..lol

xavier6303 said:
While I agree that its pretty pointless to have a G1 without a dataplan, I will say that TMO's network is not equal in all areas. I can barely get edge where I am so while this will be great for those fortunate enough to stay in 3g, people without 3g or travel frequently to non 3g areas may need an offline solution.
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TeleNav does just fine on GPRS. With the map caching, I don't see where TMO's network would make navigation in Google Maps an issue. As long as you're not using satellite view, or zoomed waayy out, I doubt it'll be much different (bandwidth-wise) from TeleNav.

axlastro said:
They are playng some shady games with them stocks if you ask me.
It's kinda pointless having a navigation that requires data connection, I mean - it's GPS - you might want to go offroad and loose 2G/3g or whatever GSM signal. You'd also consider to go abroad not paying attention you are roaming (you know, being an average user) and when you come back - SNAP - a 10000$ bill... Oh, and I don't have a data plan, I'm crying in the corner.
The presentation video was amazing and really got me wow-ed. However, if you are somewhere in the woods, without data coverage, you might wanna shake the dust off that old NUVI you are keeping, just in case...
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Hehe, well, to be fair, turn-by-turn navigation as a whole is pretty useless for any area without roads or places to go. We still have our compasses, though...

I'm surprised people aren't making a bigger deal out of this. I'm extremely excited. Not only is this a free, seemingly top-quality GPS app, but it's tied into the phone quite nicely, and it's way more innovative than anything Garmin or TomTom have put out, ever.

Are there other Navigation apps?

Seems like a dumb question since I like the stock navigation software. But I no longer use my G1 as my daily driver. I was thinking of making it a stand alone GPS unit. However, with no SIM card, the stock nav software won't work. I need a nav app that stores the maps to the SD card. Are there any out there for Android?

I'm using sygic mobile maps 2010 atm on my g1 which I reckon is better than its competitors; copilot and navigon. All three store maps on the sd card
Sent from my HTC Dream using Tapatalk

All three of those I haven't heard of. I did find Orux and Map Droyd, but didn't like them too much. I'll give Sygic a try next. Thanks

OOOOK, I should have mentioned a free one would be nice

Google is your friend
Sent from my HTC Dream using Tapatalk

You did see I "found" two others, and I didn't do it by telepathy

I meant you can obtain any paid app for free by using google
Sent from my HTC Dream using Tapatalk

Hey, we don't advocate that here. Talk about what you want in private, but please don't encourage piracy on the forums.
There are a few paid apps, they cost quite a bit. However, since you're going to be driving around without a sim card (which effectively means no cell data connection), you'll need an application that stores its maps locally, otherwise you'll be sunk if you deviate from your path outside of a wifi hotspot.
There are, however, a few other navigation systems, but they cost a pretty penny.
Telenav, CoPilot and Destinator 9 are all on the market (from $29.99 to $69.99) and both CoPilot and Destinator 9 store their maps locally (I couldn't figure out if Telenav does or not). They cost a lot, but it might be worth it to you.
Free apps are less likely to store maps locally, versus downloading them on the fly. I seem to remember that AndNav2 can use preloaded maps, but they have a very limited supply. If you happen to live in one of these areas, then perhaps AndNav2 is a good idea for you.
Otherwise, if you can't afford a paid app, I'm not sure if you'll be able to use your G1 as you planned.

iGO
http://www.igomyway.com/android/en/

Thank you both. Jordanjay, thanks for the indepth response, and maybe that will be useful for others, but you really just repeated what I was looking for I know without a sim I'll need local maps, and I know there are paid apps. I was specifically looking for a free one. And you did that as well. I do live in the USA, so I'll give AndNav2 a shot.
jorobochi: Where do I get the iGO software? There site just goes on and on about what their software is. It appears to only be available if it came with your phone. And as Jordan mentioned, if I have to "find" it, don't worry about answering.

Beginning of the end of companies producing GPS software?

Start the decline of companies that IGo, Garmin, TomTom? Or fight in the field gets stronger? Especially since it seems that will be free... Good for us users, we will have to won ... or not?
What do you think?
LINK

Well thing is the ultimate goal of a superphone would be to replace everything needed in your day right? So this is just another stepping stone cause allot of people use GPS now so it's a need and the smartphone/superphone steps in.
Now my guess if Google makes this service free then the GPS companies will take a major hit, if they do charge on the other hand I think they still have a chance because people are tempted to not mind paying for hardware but software lots of people dislike it (I'm talking average consumer) because you have nothing physical in the end, plus people already have Google maps for free so if Google randomly start to charge for this add-on I think many people will be disappointed (including me) because when you print the navigation instructions there free right so why should it be different to have them on your smartphone.