Database Develop

Kaiser 32bit Qualcomm MSM7200 Chipset

These are some of the Kaiser's internals.
Here you will find the diagram of it:
DIAGRAM
This is the page I found this on:
Qualcomm MSM7200Chipset In Kaiser
Lemme know what you guys think!

interesting that its chip supports video out but they did not add it in the hardware.

magnamar said:
interesting that its chip supports video out but they did not add it in the hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, the chip in the 8525/TyTN supported gps but did not support it.
the mogul has the 7500 chip which supports the same as the kaiser but the device doesnt support it all.

KaiserLinux said:
These are some of the Kaiser's internals.
Here you will find the diagram of it:
DIAGRAM
This is the page I found this on:
Qualcomm MSM7200Chipset In Kaiser
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting - this chipset has HSUPA support by default, but Kaiser doesn't support it (or at least, HTC does not confirm this). Does it mean that Kaiser has limited edition of that chipset, or maybe HSUPA will become available with future ROM updates from HTC?

eva_d said:
Interesting - this chipset has HSUPA support by default, but Kaiser doesn't support it (or at least, HTC does not confirm this). Does it mean that Kaiser has limited edition of that chipset, or maybe HSUPA will become available with future ROM updates from HTC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sure this has to do with the carriers network supporting this bandwith upload feature.

iservealot said:
I am sure this has to do with the carriers network supporting this bandwith upload feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, everything will turn out once Kaiser will hit the shelves and people start using it, and sharing (hopefully) their thoughts about it...

eva_d said:
Interesting - this chipset has HSUPA support by default, but Kaiser doesn't support it (or at least, HTC does not confirm this). Does it mean that Kaiser has limited edition of that chipset, or maybe HSUPA will become available with future ROM updates from HTC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suspect this will have a lot more to do with Microsoft's WM6 not ready to cope with these kind of 3,5G / 3,75G protocols.... (correct me if i'm wrong)
So that should also mean that future upgrades (AKU's i'd suspect) might correct the lack of HSUPA

Interesting - this chipset has HSUPA support by default, but Kaiser doesn't support it (or at least, HTC does not confirm this). Does it mean that Kaiser has limited edition of that chipset, or maybe HSUPA will become available with future ROM updates from HTC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As per the comment above, I definitely think it is based on the carrier.

The radio on kaiser runs L4/Linux Pistachio microkernel, you can read more information here.
Some pr0n for the linux geeks:
Code:
$ strings kaiser_radio_0x301.nb |grep -i linux
M6500C L4/Linux
L4 Linux
NICTNICTA::Pistachio - built on Jan 23 2007 18:10:22 by [email protected] using gcc version 3.4.1
start_linux_cmd
vmlinux != NULL
vmlinux
vmlinux igms_name=ramdisk root=/dev/igms0
start_linux

The radio on kaiser runs L4/Linux Pistachio microkernel, you can read more information here.
Some pr0n for the linux geeks:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this info! I am reading over it now.

im a bit confused on how it could run the l4 microkernel and windows 6 on it. I was hoping that I could somehow flash the device with a Linux embedded bootloader - > load a kernel that has support for both of these arm cpu's and board -> then load driver modules for all of the different radios and interfaces and drop some minimalistic OS on top of that. Does anyone know the feasibility of accomplishing something like this? Also how the l4 linux kernel can run side by side with wm6?

Think of the radio interface as a computer inside an another computer (the phone itself). The main CPU runs WM6 and interfaces with the radio which runs an embedded linux.

Wrong, on most phones you are correct, they have a cpu and the seperate communications processor. But the kaiser is unique in using the communications processor as the primary CPU for the entire device. So unless there is a seperate arm core (dual core?) inside it, how is it running both linux and wm?

That's the thing that is very interesting. Looking at the diagram the msm7200 board seems to have an ARM11 and an ARM9 cpu on it.

I coudlv'e sworn someone said that it might be a dual core...

KaiserLinux said:
Also how the l4 linux kernel can run side by side with wm6?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They can share address space on the same CPU,
wince is a 25bit OS.
Do you have the Kaiser phone ? Can you run haret on it ?

On handhelds.org it's mentioned that a guy named Kevin has modded the source code of haret for the MSM7500 chip. It's not working yet (internals of the chip is unknown), only the CPU gets detected. (more info: http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HaRET)

KaiserLinux said:
As per the comment above, I definitely think it is based on the carrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HSUPA is mostly being trialled by carriers. Most are still absorbing HSDPA.
Hey - Im a nubee and I was wandering if any of you can help with what you estimate the cost of the Qualcomm MSM7200 SOC to be. Its very impressive!
We are starting a new design and could be interseting.

Shadowmite said:
Wrong, on most phones you are correct, they have a cpu and the seperate communications processor. But the kaiser is unique in using the communications processor as the primary CPU for the entire device. So unless there is a seperate arm core (dual core?) inside it, how is it running both linux and wm?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It still has a seperate communications processor, it's just in the same chip as opposed to a seperate package now. (See other comments).
I think it's something like 400 MHz ARM11 for applications, 274MHz ARM9 for comms.

Android on kaiser?
Lets start an effort to try to run Android on kaiser? I am sure it will be a huge task, but lets give it a shot.
I am not an embedded system expert, but I am sure we can get people to help us, maybe from the google team once we get serious.

Htc Replies to Video Driver problem!

But it does not look good for us. I think we're going to have to rely on developers to release drivers for us, not HTC
"HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render high-resolution video. These devices do still provide a rich multimedia experience comparable to that of most smartphones and enable a variety of audio and video file formats," reads the official response, in part. Furthermore, the company has officially confirmed that Imageon drivers are not in use on the affected devices, but that it "plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Link

Then its final. no more HTC for me as this will be my last HTC device.

HTC you ruined my day. . . Well, I think that means they want a huge money donation to enable them. . .

Yeah no more HTC for me. Everyone who wanted the driver issues fix should agree that when they buy their next PPC make sure it's not an HTC

Fantastic. Perfect. Top notch. [/sarcasm]
So, in light of problems being fixed as they should be, the new issue is with what to replace the Kaiser?
Where oh where is the M8??

What they basically said is that "yea, we know there is no hardware acceleration, but if you really want it you are going to have to give us even more money by buying our next gen handset, bc we aren't fixing it in this one".
I used to rave about my 8125 to everyone. It's too bad HTC is taking the position they are. Never again will I buy a product from HTC or recommend them to anyone else. My next handset will be from i-mate.

yeah i-mate I never thought of them. I wonder if they have anything with touch screen and a full keyboard

Okay, so whos up for a nice class action lawsuit? I'm totally willing to try running HTC into the ground with one.

ericc191 said:
yeah i-mate I never thought of them. I wonder if they have anything with touch screen and a full keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i-mate just annoced last week that they are going back to HTC as the ODM of their phones. I-mate had tried (or was trying with) some other ODMs and it didn't pan out, so they are going back to HTC. If you don't want HTC, then don't buy any future i-mates either....
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/17/palm-i-mate-others-moving-manufacturing-contracts-back-to-htc/

I think we now need a sticky thread stating "Dont buy HTC products unless you've had your brain removed"
Certainly depending upon who commented to Engadget, we dont know how seriously to take this. But it does look bleak
We all know the existing drivers suck, the phone is buggy
and more to the point for a "premium" product, it doesnt fulfill some functions its predecessors could (its slower than my 3 yr old Wizard at scrolling, camera and opening/closing)

The standard, 'we already got your money response'...
Maybe it would be prudent for a written complaint to the carriers now, if they blow this off on this handset, what makes you think there won't be anything wrong with the next? Maybe they are making a promise on the next? Any takers?
?Glitch

ericc191 said:
yeah i-mate I never thought of them. I wonder if they have anything with touch screen and a full keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That they do. they are actually releasing a kaiser killer very soon - the Ultimate 9502
It uses the exact same chipset as the Kaiser, but I'm guessing it has drivers for hardware acceleration too. It has the same specs as the kaiser (GPS, HSDPA, etc, etc) and features a VGA screen.

Beat me to the 9502. Link - http://www.imate.com/product.aspx?product=ultimate9502

snif...
ah well, here's looking forward to the
toshiba g920
http://www.slashphone.com/111/9012.html
or the imate 9502
http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2007/10/imate_9502_handson.html
or whenever the he77 apple gets a 3g stick out of their a$$.

smittyofdhs said:
i-mate just annoced last week that they are going back to HTC as the ODM of their phones. I-mate had tried (or was trying with) some other ODMs and it didn't pan out, so they are going back to HTC. If you don't want HTC, then don't buy any future i-mates either....
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/17/palm-i-mate-others-moving-manufacturing-contracts-back-to-htc/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah, craptastic.
well, maybe the linux-palm? or go retro and ditch the convergence altogether?

" In response to recent customer complaints about poor video performance on HTC devices based on the latest Qualcomm MSM7xxx chipsets, HTC is providing the following statement.
HTC is committed to delivering a portfolio of devices that offer a wide variety of communication, connectivity and entertainment functionality. HTC does not offer dedicated or optimized multimedia devices and can confirm that its Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based devices do not use ATI’s Imageon video acceleration hardware.
HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render high-resolution video. These devices do still provide a rich multimedia experience comparable to that of most smart phones and enable a variety of audio and video file formats.
HTC values its customers and the overall online community of mobile device enthusiasts and fans. HTC plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support. "
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this whole statement is very ambiguous and does not state that support for imageon drivers aren't possible on current devices. i think its a pr statement and doesn't reflect what their software team is doing. its very opened ended and we could have support for acceleration but we couldn't as well. this statement doesn't tell us that.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=361580
So htc said that the devices with the latest qualcomm chipsets would have 3d acceleration, but they dont. Has anyone pointed this out before. Im not a tytn ii owner, but ive been following the news, since i wanted one for myself.
But, is this false advertising, saying it will have hardware acceleration and then not giving it, and saying it will never be given in an update.
I think the 9502 is where im going too, we just need a forum on XDA for it.
Rory

Back to palm for me!!!

Guilf said:
Beat me to the 9502. Link - http://www.imate.com/product.aspx?product=ultimate9502
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if the keyboard is comfortable.
Also, let's say I purchase this phone in March. Would HTC get any of that profit?

I agree with BlueCop, and why is everyone getting so worked up about this? Where there's a demand, drivers will follow - their source is just unclear at the moment.

If not already posted but. . .

Look at this:
http://gizmodo.com/360514/htc-says-software-fix-is-coming-for-lousy-video-drivers
An official HTC statement about the drivers looks promising. Again, keep your hopes up and guard up!

Not only is this old and posted to death, but
However this fix is not a new video driver to utilize hardware acceleration
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is nothing promising about this, please read carefully next time, it just misleads people who read your post

Damn. . . I thought that was a new and updated statement. Look if you only read a little bit of it then you probably missed out on this.
Some of our top engineers have investigated video performance on our devices and have discovered a fix that they claim will dramatically improve performance for common on-screen tasks like scrolling and the like. Their fix would help most of our recent touch-screen products including the Touch family of devices and TYTN II / Tilt, Mogul / XV6900. The update is in testing and we hope to release it soon. However this fix is not a new video driver to utilize hardware acceleration; it is a software optimization. Video drivers are a much more complicated issue that involves companies and engineers beyond HTC alone. We do not want to lead anyone to believe they should expect these. To explain why we are not releasing video acceleration instead of the optimization
I offer you our official statement... "HTC DOES plan to offer software upgrades that will increase feature functionality, over the air wireless speeds and other enhancements for some of the phones being criticized, but we do not anticipate including any additional support for the video acceleration issues cited in customer complaints. It is important for customers to understand that bringing this functionality to market is not a trivial driver update and requires extensive software development and time. HTC will utilize hardware video acceleration like the ATI Imageon in many upcoming products. Our users have made it clear that they expect our products to offer an improved visual experience, and we have included this feedback into planning and development of future products. To address lingering questions about HTC's current MSM 7xxx devices, it is important to establish that a chipset like an MSM7xxx is a platform with a vast multitude of features that enable a wide range of devices with varied functionality. It is common that devices built on platforms like Qualcomm's will not enable every feature or function. In addition to making sure the required hardware is present, unlocking extended capabilities of chipsets like the MSM 7xxx requires in-depth and time consuming software development, complicated licensing negotiations, potential intellectual property negotiations, added licensing fees, and in the case of devices that are sold through operators, the desire of the operator to include the additional functionality. To make an informed decision about which handset suits them best, consumers should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

~~Tito~~ said:
Damn. . . I thought that was a new and updated statement. Look if you only read a little bit of it then you probably missed out on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry Tito,
Nothing new to that, just the same old company line that they've been spouting for weeks.

Meeing!! I thought I saw something new. Well Law Suit it is then since they don't want to make a small amount of effort to fix some devices problems that they shouldn't have. I wonder if they use their own devices or do they have drivers made for them and not us?

GPS Chip version?

Where can I look/read what kind of GPS Chip run in my diamond?
Is it true thats two different chips have been build-in?

Does nobody know this information?

you should've checked the wiki before posting
anyways, the chipset is Qualcomm's gpsOne
where did you get the idea of two chips from?

blufade said:
you should've checked the wiki before posting
anyways, the chipset is Qualcomm's gpsOne
where did you get the idea of two chips from?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shure - I ve checked wiki and another blogs and I know this information about Qualcomm, thx.
But I wanne know where I can read in my diamond what kind of chip I have.
I´ve read it in a another forum (about 2 versions of chip´s) and I think that was the answer why first Diomonds release work with bad Sat fix and newest edition work´s fine.

on your diamon huh ?...from what i know, neither winmo nor the htc manual reports any info regarding the gps chip, plus i've never come across any s/w that could read gps specifications directly, have you checked out the htc repair maual, actually it has pretty much all info regarding the hardware.
i don't know if htc would alter the gps chip, maybe its just that the newer diamonds come with a better radio s/w...

Android on other devices

So I am trying to learn some about how android works. I am interested in how it works with the hardware. I am not a developer or interested in porting android to another device, but as I look at the hardware specs of say the Touch Pro2 and the hero, they are similar and the chipsets are close (same family). Recently i read that the CEO of HTC said he will not make a Android version of the TP2, so my question is this:
What is special about the hardware of the android device that it runs android, but the TP2 cannot? I know that people have been working on porting Android to other WinMo devices, but with limited success. So what is the stumbling block?
I'm just curious about this topic and was hoping some of the smart folks from XDA would know.

I believe that much like computer hardware, each component requires drivers, and those need to be written for WinMo devices. In the alpine section they've been port WinMo 5, but couldn't due to lack of drivers.
Also all WinMo devices are resistive, Android (up until 1.6) was all capacitive, which I believe is another issue.
Anyway, the Droid is better than the TP2 =P