Database Develop

HTC Touch Diamond Vs iPhone 3G

OK so now that both have been officially announced, and both will be out in the UK in July, what would you go for and why?
Personally, I iPhone 3G holds a lot of appeal for me, it has resolved all its shortcomings from the original version it’s a tough choice.
For me, the only thing holing me back are: -
1. Support for third party applications, it’s limited at the moment, but will get better over time.
2. A proper satnav application that can make use of the built in GPS (TomTom on the iPhone 3G!)
Please share your thoughts...

Most of the new software features are things that Windows Mobile has done for ages. I'm actually quite pleased with the 3G iPhone - the Touch Diamond has it beaten in key areas for me. These include style, size (apparently it has got bigger, while HTC has managed to make the Touch Diamond smaller than the Touch), handy features and third-party applications.
What shocks me is the way people are reacting to some of the features - Apple seemed to introduce A-GPS as some sort of new innovation, when the Touch Diamond is already out in places, with that very feature...

If you heard the keynote you'll see that apple will have the phone call home. They also sign every executable. That means 'homebrew' wont really exist.
They said that developers can still make free apps, but they have to be distributed through the apple store. In the end thats not going to make a huge difference and you'll see plenty of apps for the iphone appear very very quickly.
For me the 3g iphone wins in everything except size and screen resolution. The main thing that made me think twice about the diamond was the 3g iphone battery life!
.. to be continued.. not decided yet

Dark Fire I know what you mean. Apple fan-boys always seem to be impressed when Apple implement something Windows has been doing for years, and this is not just in iPhone but also the Mac OS as well.
For my money I would go with the Touch Diamond anyday. Apple will always have too much control over it for my liking - I mean today people seemed ecstatic that Apple would now allow you to make and buy applications for it!

Tim 45 said:
Dark Fire I know what you mean. Apple fan-boys always seem to be impressed when Apple implement something Windows has been doing for years, and this is not just in iPhone but also the Mac OS as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but you got to admit whatever windows does, osx and linux do about 10 fold faster.

Can't buy an iPhone, if you have fingernails, you can't use the keyboard. Useless.

Actually that reminds me... on the iphone you can press a key, and it kind of pops up the letter above your finger. You can slide your finger to another letter if that one is wrong i.e. it only picks the letter when you lift your finger.
Does the HTC keyboard do that at all?

Well, as pointless it may be to others, size & weight really matters to me & the Diamond fits perfectly in my hand or pocket can't say that about the iphone the only downside to having that stunning 3.5" screen.

No, it doesnt

someone1234 - Yes.

I think I will be sticking with the diamond, and then waiting and seeing what applications come out for the iPhone. I can always move over to it.

Would you need to include the Sammy i900 in this comparison? Due about the same time.

SolusCado said:
someone1234 - Yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cool! thanks.
I think once the 3G iphone is unlockable i'll buy one. For $199 its a bargain. Until then its not worth it - there'll be no decent apps, and what there are will probably cost stupid money.
So I'm decided.. sticking with diamond.

Size is the big issue for me. Diamond wins hands down.
In fact, the only point that iPhone wins is in the interface but TouchFlo is not far behind now, after tweaks

Somehow i think an unlocked iphone 3g is gonna cost a lot more than $200!! more like $300-$350 your forgetting thats $200 plus a maybe 2 year contract!
IMO the diamond has it beat apart from the memory.
Diamond has these over the 3g iphone:
Twice the resolution
video calling
faster browsing
Stereo bluetooth Headphone Support (not confirmed on the 3g iphone)
Picture Messaging (not confirmed on the 3g iphone)
Stylus if prefered
Better Camera
Way More Apps and games for now.
Not restricted to certain providers.

someone1234 said:
True, but you got to admit whatever windows does, osx and linux do about 10 fold faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed - 10 fold faster, several years later. That's the main difference these days...
someone1234 said:
Actually that reminds me... on the iphone you can press a key, and it kind of pops up the letter above your finger. You can slide your finger to another letter if that one is wrong i.e. it only picks the letter when you lift your finger.
Does the HTC keyboard do that at all?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it definitely does that. The problem with the HTC keyboard is that the letter doesn't appear above the key you're pressing - the key sort of expands, so it's still mostly obscured by your finger. I don't really know why HTC thought that was better...
jkr284 said:
Somehow i think an unlocked iphone 3g is gonna cost a lot more than $200!! more like $300-$350 your forgetting thats $200 plus a maybe 2 year contract!
IMO the diamond has it beat apart from the memory.
Diamond has these over the 3g iphone:
Twice the resolution
video calling
faster browsing
Stereo bluetooth Headphone Support (not confirmed on the 3g iphone)
Picture Messaging (not confirmed on the 3g iphone)
Stylus if prefered
Better Camera
Way More Apps and games for now.
Not restricted to certain providers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly my point. The tables have turned - the Touch Diamond has the 3G iPhone out handy-featurised and, if anything, the Touch Diamond slightly wins on specs too.
Also, yeah, I think $199 is with a contract. I was reading that Apple wouldn't let network operators subsidise the iPhone before, but now they will let them do that, hence the much lower price.

imranbashir_uk said:
OK so now that both have been officially announced, and both will be out in the UK in July, what would you go for and why?
Personally, I iPhone 3G holds a lot of appeal for me, it has resolved all its shortcomings from the original version it’s a tough choice.
For me, the only thing holing me back are: -
1. Support for third party applications, it’s limited at the moment, but will get better over time.
2. A proper satnav application that can make use of the built in GPS (TomTom on the iPhone 3G!)
Please share your thoughts...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TomTom for iPhone is already in beta testing and should be released shortly after the 3G iPhone hits stores.

imranbashir_uk said:
OK so now that both have been officially announced, and both will be out in the UK in July, what would you go for and why?
Personally, I iPhone 3G holds a lot of appeal for me, it has resolved all its shortcomings from the original version it’s a tough choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But.... how about cut/copy/paste -- no mention of them.
For me, after trying two different iphones, I have to say that iphone2 is underwhelming -- we who have WinMo phones have been using the direct push email for more than a year and the volume of apps available (many either free or very inexpensive) tip the balance. I know apple has an advantage in controlling hardware and software-- they can optimize them and we see faster performance (but not always) -- but with WinMo there's both hardware and software that will fit everyone's needs/wants. Speed isn't everything.... and I kind of like the freedom from "mother apple" control (according to current info it will be extremely difficult to jailbreak this system).

Why you need an apple when there is HTC

one thing iPhone 3G got its CHEAP hehehehe

To buy a Tilt or not, opinions please

Hey,
Im moving on from my trusty MDA and came apon a few decently priced At&t Tilts. Ive read over the driver issues and just wanted the opinions of some current and/or previous owners.
Just so you know, I have owned a Wing, MDA and currently a Blackjack2 and had flashed/upgraded the HTCs several times. Thats why I want to come back to an HTC device.
Thanks in advance.

go for it dude
fhaines said:
Hey,
Im moving on from my trusty MDA and came apon a few decently priced At&t Tilts. Ive read over the driver issues and just wanted the opinions of some current and/or previous owners.
Just so you know, I have owned a Wing, MDA and currently a Blackjack2 and had flashed/upgraded the HTCs several times. Thats why I want to come back to an HTC device.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Personally, I think it is a great phone.

I agree. Fully functional 3D drivers or not, this is still the most amazing phone on the market for price point. The only thing I would personally get above this phone is the touch pro....and that wont be for some time to come

I've had a tilt since oct 07. Wouldn't give it up for anything. Does it play 3d perfectly, no...but I didn't buy it to play movies & mp3 files. Does it have as quality camera as my old SE W810i? No, but with patience, it does pretty darn well. I got the tilt because it allowed me to replace a phone & PDA with one device. I use mobile office around 10-15 times a day, 20-30 text messages a day, the camera maybe once or twice a week, and it is without a doubt the best
device I've owned. it has it's quirks, but what device doesn't?

here hear, awesomest phone i have ever owned. I was looking for a phone i could replace my phone and pda with. it rocksas far as features. sure the graphics suck. but they get the job done in a pinch. weee it's the most technologicaly advanced phone that att has right now. I dont have to synch eight devices. i just got rid of my laptop. I use this for most everything. i have school comp labs for everything else. i thought about taking it back and waiting fr something better to come out. but. when the touch pro comes out it will cost 450 dollars with a new 2 year agreement. school stsrts before then anyways. HEY thanks you guysfor making this the coolest phone it can be with what is available. is there any feature that another phone has that this one does not. in america anyways. it is a business phone. it does just that. it will play most regular phone games out there. damn it doesnt play crysis at maximum detail. boo hoo. it is a freakin miracle these slow resricted devices can do what they do. having said that. im sure my opinion would be changed with a good foreign phone. hey and htc come on. what other company out there encourages hacking their phones by putting xda developers in their wiki. i have dropped this thing onto concrete hard twice and to my knowledge it hasnt phased it. oh and btw. i dont have a data plan for my phone. i am typing this on my tilt at panera bread on my hardware giant qwerty keyboard. this has taken me fifteen mins to write. do that iphone. do that old style 12 key phones. i just got the thing and i am typing fast on it. if you want a gaming phone this is not for you. if you want relatively long battery life when you surf the net using wifi get this phone. i am comparing the batt life to my sony clie which had first generation pda wifi in it. i have gone over an hour today surfing the web. i still have 20 pecent left and i started with like 60. my clie could only go for like 45 mins with a brand new battery with a slower processor. well panera bread is cosing and i should probably get home. but it isnt becase my pda ran outof juice. i have the oem batt btw. good night all. i hope this helps you in your quest fora new phone.

i have owned the tilt since Nov 2007 and it has been a excellent pocket pc/phone. what i really like about the phone is having the ability to flash the rom that chefs have to offer. it's nice to have options and incredible free applications out there offered by the programmer's.
i have been through four previous pocket pc phones and it's nice for once that there is everything packaged into one device. I use gps, wifi, watch movies, listen to mp3s, outlook/exchange, bluetooth etc.. i take the phone to the limits and it meets expectations.
despite the video driver problem, its not a big deal if you are really into eye candy.
if you have other questions, you can email me..
tvos

Nooo. Don't get it. I personally plan on selling my Tilt and shelling out some cash to get the AT&T Fuze (Touch Pro). It's much better. The retail pricing is only about $100-200 more then the Tilt's. So it'll retail for about $550/$650 w/o contract. =) This is a great deal compared to $1k. It's going to come out before year's end and AT&T data managers are currently testing the Fuze. It'll be out before 08 ends I can swear on it. It has a different color TF3D as we've seen. It has no front camera and an extra button for PTT. That's about it.
Guess how I got this info =)

Kraize92 said:
Nooo. Don't get it. I personally plan on selling my Tilt and shelling out some cash to get the AT&T Fuze (Touch Pro). It's much better. The retail pricing is only about $100-200 more then the Tilt's. So it'll retail for about $550/$650 w/o contract. =) This is a great deal compared to $1k. It's going to come out before year's end and AT&T data managers are currently testing the Fuze. It'll be out before 08 ends I can swear on it. It has a different color TF3D as we've seen. It has no front camera and an extra button for PTT. That's about it.
Guess how I got this info =)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you don't know what your talking about...
get the tilt..... worse and try it out for 30 days.. if you don't like it, return it... this probably the best to offer... at least at&t give you this option.
tvos

tvos said:
you don't know what your talking about...
get the tilt..... worse and try it out for 30 days.. if you don't like it, return it... this probably the best to offer... at least at&t give you this option.
tvos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rofl. I know exactly what I'm talking about

I dont want to sound negative
but your posting on a Kaiser forum and asking people who own a Tilt if they advise you to get it... haha i got a feeling your gonna get around 90% yes...
the real test is to ask some guys who have a htc touch diamond or some of the other smart phones out there what they think of the Kaiser...
oh and my answer is yes... get it... with the right tweaks and a few apps to your liking, it will be the best phone you have owned (well atleast it is the best phone i have had)

I had mine since March. Pretty good phone. A tad on the heavy side. And depends on how you like to hold it, the little corner of the USB port may dig into your pinky. The AT&T bloatware are garbage but nothing you can't fix on your own. There are enough people that like it to get a constant supply of goodies.
Knowing what I know now, would I get it again? Probably.

fhaines said:
Hey,
Im moving on from my trusty MDA and came apon a few decently priced At&t Tilts. Ive read over the driver issues and just wanted the opinions of some current and/or previous owners.
Just so you know, I have owned a Wing, MDA and currently a Blackjack2 and had flashed/upgraded the HTCs several times. Thats why I want to come back to an HTC device.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I look for speed and stability in a PPC, and I'm sorry to say that once again I have not found it in a HTC phone. I previously had the S710. Compared to that, the TYTN-II is fast as lightning. But compared to previous Sony Ericsson and Palm phones, the TYTN-II is sloppy. Admittedly it has GPS and WI-FI, which the others did not. The stability is below what I think is reasonable to expect for a smartphone in 2008. The touchscreen and buttons are occasionally unresponsive, and normal operation is often replaced by random "irregularities". I soft reset the device some 1-3 times a week, because unexpected stuff just happens: ranging from missed calls, broken activesync, unable to connect to EDGE network, software crashes, buttons not working.
Yet I hold on to it. It sports a nice set of features, and the software for it is plentyfull. The stability and performance can be improved by careful configuration (involving a lot of trial-and-error), but be prepared to spend a lot of hours on it. If you are a "point-and-shoot" type of person, who just want a phone that works out of the box, you may be disappointed with this one.
At least this is my personoal experience with the phone. Your milage may vary!

If you're prepared to put up with what can at times be an annoyingly slow user interface, then I don't see why not. The feature-set is excellent, the build quality is excellent and the tilting display shows no sign of flimsy construction. It has a nice weight to it and feels comfortable to hold and use.
But the dsmn lack of drivers *REALLY* grates at me after a while, especially when switching between portrait/landscape modes. The more time goes on, the more you notice how slow it is. There are tweaks that help, for example if you set the X button to close instead of hide apps the effect of this is minimised somewhat, but that shouldn't be necessary.
Unless you have patience for a UI with an average speed of "slow" I would go for one of HTCs other offerings which actually uses the hardware it contains, although if the custom drivers that are underway reach completion, perhaps the Kaiser will be a serious contender. So if you DO buy one, you may think of it as an investment for the future

Quality and Function comparisons
CrArc said:
. . . The feature-set is excellent, the build quality is excellent and the tilting display shows no sign of flimsy construction. It has a nice weight to it and feels comfortable to hold and use. . .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a Wizard (8125) and a Kaiser (Tilt) and just got a Hermes (8525) for another family member - the Kaiser obviously has the best feature set, but the build quality of the other two is better, IMO. The 8125 is clunky looking, but solid, and the spacing of the keys makes it much easier not to miss-key. The 8525 is super-solid, has the best battery cover, and I think is the best looking.
That said, I will keep using the Kaiser. I have also tried i-mate 8502 and HP iPaq 910c, and returned to the Kaiser. The chrome is wearing down on the buttons, and some of HTC's software design on it is annoying (e.g. fast backlight shutoff - fixable of course). In the inevitable comparison to iPhone 3G, the iPhone does some things amazingly well (threaded SMS, internet browsing) but still doesn't have a spreadsheet for crying out loud! I depend on Excel, use it constantly in eyecare clinic.
So despite its flaws, the Kaiser is the best thing for me - until Touch Pro for AT&T 3G is available - then I will get that - the 5 row keyboard and the VGA screen are the big pluses there, and you can never have too much memory.

You know I researched a lot before buying my tilt, knowing I would need to unlock and flash it to get the functionality I wanted. I could not be happier with my purchase. Things I know I can not do with an Iphone easily or at all at no additional cost include excel & word editing, connect to Citrix, RDP, tether my laptop by either USB or BT. As for the d3d drivers, while they would be nice I don't see them as mandatory since this is first a phone and a PDA not a iPod. That said, I have no issue other than bandwidth when I comes to streaming media through ORB to my TILT and playback is more than acceptable for me.
Just do it since your no stranger to flashing,
z

Kaiser/Tilt worthy upgrade?

Any Tilt or Kaiser owners plan to upgrade to the Touch Pro 2? Does it seem like it would be a significant upgrade? I'm curious to what you fellow Tilt/Kaiser owners think...

I have the Tilt and have not upgraded to the Fuze. I was waiting for the next big thing that ATT was potentially was going to bring over and it seem like this is it. I love the device's design in every aspect; looks amazing physicaly. What i don't like is that they stuck it with a 3mp camera (and removed flash!). I absolutely love the 3.6" screen. Basically, i'm pretty sure i'll be upgrading (i saved my contract upgrade and rejected the Fuze for this reason).

Yeah, I'm going to buy Touch Pro2, the reasons why, larger screen, better hardware, 5-row keyboard, looks very very cool, more finger-friendly.

iphone. if lack of a hw keyboard is not a deal breaker. After owning 2 winmo phones (currently using a tilt) and modding many other peoples iphones, i can honestly say that the iphone is superior in usability/apps/stability. after drooling for a touch diamond and then hearing my friend say its laggy after he bought it, was a real disappointment. Microsoft is really behind the curve in the mobile sector. Thinking about selling my tilt for iphone now. Might wait till winmo 7 to come out before purchasing another winmo phone. For the record i'm a pc guy and i think apple products/fans our generally pretentious and kinda douche-ie (not all though).

Not sure about the Touch Pro2. I rarely .. if ever use my keyboard. I am waiting on the HTC Topaz for ATT..... drool.

I'm probably gonna go for the TP2. 800x480 screen!
They only issue i see with the device is that they've removed the d-pad.

HTC looks like they've put every good feature into this device, from FM Radio to TV Out. It looks perfect, and although a faster processor or a DPAD wouldn't hurt. And a 6.5 upgrade sounds good as well. I am certainly getting this phone.
Dave

good thing i passed on the fuze too...The Touch pro 2 will definitely be up there on my next phone list...And this will probably be the real successor to the tytn ii...I think it also matches the specs we had a few months back on the then phantom "TILT 2" that never showed up...until now...

TP 2.... is it worth sniffing at?
Does anyone know if it'll have proper 3D and 2 D DirectX and Direct Draw drivers included? I'm not wanting a HTC customised menu so much as full native support of the built in hardware within the operating system and parts thereof such as Pocket Mediaplayer itself. I'd like to use video playback without having to slash the frame rates and/or resolution as I have to with my Kaiser (even under TCPMP).
I'm concerned to read that although it has GPS support, it doesn't appear to list what software is provided to use this in the UK/Europe. Does this mean that it could be the TP all over again with HTC refusing to acknowledge any GPS problems that may crop up? Without a tried and tested native GPS app bundled with the device, it won't be one for me.

I'm very tempted - but I think I'll have to wait until I actually can put my hands on one in a shop to decide. I fear I will find it too large and/or thick for my liking. The Tilt is thick, but small. The iphone is large to the point I feel mixed with regard to the size in the pocket/screen comfort balance, but at least is thin. The TP2 will be large AND thick. And it loses the DPAD indeed, and I use that a lot

only a few people think it would be a worthy upgrade?

What's that saying, once bitten....
timdeien1979 said:
only a few people think it would be a worthy upgrade?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If those who currently have Kaisers (or TPs for that matter) get a feeling of déjà vu with the 'finished' product and its shortcomings (video drivers, keyboard performance, GPS time to lock and any lag, important bits/features missed out etc) then yes, you are correct. HTC need to learn from its mistakes and provide a product that actually meets peoples needs fully and reliably if they want those who've already been stung by them to part with cash on a new HTC product. Many people here have already said they'll never buy another HTC product due to all the problems they've had so you get an idea of the extent of feeling about such things!

I'm planning to get the TP2
- Higher resolution big and wide screen
- Larger battery
- Faster processor
- More internal memory
- 5 row keyboard
- TV out
- USB OTG
- New TOUCH FLO 3D with larger soft menu screens
- WM 6.5 (when HTC will make it available)
I'll miss:
- D-pad
- Jog wheel
- Buttons!

Flying Kiwi said:
If those who currently have Kaisers (or TPs for that matter) get a feeling of déjà vu with the 'finished' product and its shortcomings (video drivers, keyboard performance, GPS time to lock and any lag, important bits/features missed out etc) then yes, you are correct.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or, there are people like me who are really happy with the Kaiser, and for whom it would take something really good to warrant a change. As said, I'll see the TP2 when it's there, but until then I don't plan to change at all.

If the cookers start cooking good roms and it can be unlocked ok then yes it looks lovely

Iphone 3GS

From WWDC Latest Iphone twice as quick apparently, has:-
3Mp camera, shoots video, - yawn
7.2Mbps HSDPA, MMS (if carrier supports it) woohoo
Voice control. (been there said it done it)
Built in Compass (not seen that in WM?)
Promised Battery life looks goog - 9 hrs wifi browsing!!!
Same old style, same old interface, all starting to look a bit "last years thing" to me still it is catching up with some features that WM phones have had for a while.

Mmmmm....

If you go line by line trying to match up features, you'll go nuts... not to mention you'll end up comparing to multiple different HTC/WM phones. And you'll still miss why the iPhone is such a success.
All I can say is the $99 3G model is very very appealing, if I wasn't on the plan of my life (SERO).

slick69 said:
If you go line by line trying to match up features, you'll go nuts... not to mention you'll end up comparing to multiple different HTC/WM phones. And you'll still miss why the iPhone is such a success.
All I can say is the $99 3G model is very very appealing, if I wasn't on the plan of my life (SERO).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup, i have been saying this for quite a while, i mean they say...
A can do this, B can do that and C can do this other thing... but the iPhone cant do all of them "thats fair...."
i really want to see the Pre vs iPhone duke out (i want to get a Pre but still have time to be converted cuz my contract isnt up in a couple of months)

I have to say one thing apple really did not think about the name here "iphone 3G S". wtf?!?! is S for anyway? second round? if so then just put a 2 at the end like most companies => HTC for example.

chris10230 said:
I have to say one thing apple really did not think about the name here "iphone 3G S". wtf?!?! is S for anyway? second round? if so then just put a 2 at the end like most companies => HTC for example.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the 's' is for speed, since apps run 2x faster the made it 3GS...I agree though, lame name.
Im contemplating getting it though, as much as it pains me to say that.
I want the TP2, but not sure when the release date for AT&T is and I am scared my impatience may get the best of me!

wow! upgraded the OS and the phone runs faster, and some new/add features, and they calling it a NEW PHONE iphone 3Gs! no wonder iphone is for iDIOT! what do think the "i" in iphone stands for? i=iDIOT!
if they do this on windows mobiles, they will have a HUGE lawsuit on their ass!
upgraded Touchpro2 with windows 6.5 with add features, phone runs faster, it' the TP2+ !
upgraded sony x1 with windows 6.5 with add features, phone runs faster, it' Sony Xperia X2 !

netnerd said:
wow! upgraded the OS and the phone runs faster, and some new/add features, and they calling it a NEW PHONE iphone 3Gs! no wonder iphone is for iDIOT! what do think the "i" in iphone stands for? i=iDIOT!
if they do this on windows mobiles, they will have a HUGE lawsuit on their ass!
upgraded Touchpro2 with windows 6.5 with add features, phone runs faster, it' the TP2+ !
upgraded sony x1 with windows 6.5 with add features, phone runs faster, it' Sony Xperia X2 !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe that with the upgrade, there are still some things that the iPhone3G still can not do. MMS is one I believe, and obviously the extended battery life would be another (among other things)
I noticed you are ATT, how did you get TP2, did you buy it from europe and unlock it for at&t?

chrisrc1985 said:
I believe that with the upgrade, there are still some things that the iPhone3G still can not do. MMS is one I believe, and obviously the extended battery life would be another (among other things)
I noticed you are ATT, how did you get TP2, did you buy it from europe and unlock it for at&t?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm sure there' some features in wm6.5 that wm6.1 can not do, they dont call it a new phone just cus you upgraded the freaking OS with added features!
i'm sure if you upgrade your phone radio (rom), you might have better battery life, u still have the same old phone, NOT a new phone!
calling it a new phone, iphone 3Gs is false adversting!

As with all things apple, it is marketed so well, the point of my post was not to slag off the iphone, (it does after all have many things in its favour) but to point out that apple have an uncanny ability to add features that are old hat an most other platforms (not just WM) and sell them as in some way revolutionary.

chrisrc1985 said:
I believe that with the upgrade, there are still some things that the iPhone3G still can not do. MMS is one I believe, and obviously the extended battery life would be another (among other things)
I noticed you are ATT, how did you get TP2, did you buy it from europe and unlock it for at&t?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't think the i in iphone is for idiot , i don't think its wrong for people to have them .
they are on the otherhand not my kind of phone lol . i like my fuze very much !
he never said he had a tp2 lol

Some of you guys are really reaching here. Upgrading a ROM leads to better battery life?
Also, don't forget that before 6.1, every new release required a new phone. I still have a WM5 Moto Q that Moto never upgraded to WM6.
Also, my expensive Touch Pro only records in crappy QCIF

Apple products are all about style and simplicity. Most are made so that your grandma can pickup and use them. If apple took the 3g and raised the price to 120 and called it jphone 3g, it would still sell more than any other smartphone because of the interface. FYI not an apple fanboy, I do own several windows mobile devices and it is my favorite platform. And think about it windows mobile and other os's are spread over several devices, If you want apple's os you only have the iphone, the ipod touch doesn't make cellular network calls.

slick69 said:
Some of you guys are really reaching here. Upgrading a ROM leads to better battery life?
Also, don't forget that before 6.1, every new release required a new phone. I still have a WM5 Moto Q that Moto never upgraded to WM6.
Also, my expensive Touch Pro only records in crappy QCIF
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not a rom, but a radio could give you better battery life / reception etc
pending on the ROM. that is why its good to read which radios have been tested =]

Apple is Great Marketing and medium products (it's not a flame, only reality).
10mins ago I see to TG5 about iPhone 3GS... I haven't see about other Device (only 10 seconds to Nokia and Omnia): Great Marketing!!!
They could sell jPhone without problems

Yeah, their marketing is what makes the difference.
They market things like MMS and Copy/Cut/Paste like they were big changes.

Does it run mulitple applications
Can the iPhone run multiple applications. I dont have much knowledge abt iPhone- Like I am listening to music, browsing wifi and suddenly receive call. While the call is getting recorded(call recorder) access word or excel file or even lookup to email or sms received and on hangup , the call the recorder stops- music continues and you can get back to browsing from where you left.

a_t_u_l said:
Can the iPhone run multiple applications. I dont have much knowledge abt iPhone- Like I am listening to music, browsing wifi and suddenly receive call. While the call is getting recorded(call recorder) access word or excel file or even lookup to email or sms received and on hangup , the call the recorder stops- music continues and you can get back to browsing from where you left.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No Call Recorder (that i know of) but everything else is possible on a stock iPhone.

there's no competition for the difference in plan rate if you scored sprint sero
even on my evdo htc mogul/titan 6800 the opera browser (turbo or mini socket/proxy) gives 7mbps for web page loading
i sense i'm not missing too much except more memory and some hard drive space should you drop the extra $100 for the 32gb iphone
but then again a 16gb microSD card is only $50
slendering down my brick with extended battery to match that of the iphone doesn't justify the price offset i receive for an outdated phone with cheap accessories
it does enough for a device in my pocket to keep me happy
but if money isn't an option...there seem to be just as good options in the wm market
about the only product i am really in desire of from "the other side" is one of their past mac bluetooth keyboards for my wm phone
how you like them apples

Truth is - price point is the key. Look at how many Tilt's were purchased and how many people joined this forum when ATT had them on sale from .01 to 99 dollars.

[Q] Knowing what you know, would you still buy it?

So you guys have had the HD7 for a while now. I know it has bugs at the moment. Its to be expected as the OS is still new.
But would you buy it if you knew what you knew now?

Yes, most certainly. Loving WP7 completely. In terms of hardware, the size of the screen is the deal maker for me. But a surprisingly nice addition is the kick stand, which is both effective, useful and invokes an 'oooh that's cool' from people I show the phone to.

I did buy it, then I returned it.
And got an Omnia 7.

May I ask why?

Absolutley I would, yes, there are are few niggles but this is version 1 of the software and a brand new device FFS. Apple are STILL having problems withe the iphone 4 even now (alarms cannot deal with move to GMT from BST for example). With WP7 you are buying into one of the most promising new mobile phone OS's of recent times IMHO, with the HD7 in particular, you are getting a cool big screen device from a company that has built up a good name for itself in the industry. I currently own the HTC Desire and the HTC HD7. I will be keeping the Desire only until the Kindle app and HTML5/ Flash land for WP7, then that will go on Ebay.
My only fear is that because MS decided to launch without one or two features (Flash/ CutnPaste and turn by turn Nav) it will get hammered by the critics in the tech press and be stillborn. This would be a tragedy - the more competition there is in the smartphone space the better for the consumer.
I also hope the handset manufacturers give it the attention it deserves, recent reports on build quality issues with the HTC Trophy do not bode well

That's a conclusive argument
I'm mainly after one as I'm a software developer and I'm interested in the app platform. Looks good. I will go get one today

Ive had mine a day and love it. Was running andoird on my HD2 previously and loved that. But I love the HD7 more. Ye the app market isnt as large as the other major two OS but I can live with that and times will change.
I had an iphone last year and once you get over the intiial hysteria of having millions of useless apps to download and amuse yourself with its not so important.
Ive not had any bugs with the HD7 yet. What issues have people come across.
My only gripe is that Im stuck with crappy Vodafone until 2012

StaticTony said:
May I ask why?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, I loved it in the first 2 days but these 4 main reasons cropped up:
1. The phone would crash/lockup, it did this about 6 times in the week I had it.
2.The hard buttons (on/off, volume, camera) had NO click to them, they were completely soft, so I ended up pressing them all the time by accident, I launched the camera so many times when just holding the phone.
3.The case I was sold with it from the O2 store actually marked the back of it. ( a Leather one with a strap you pull to get it out, don't buy it)
4. I had huge doubts about the overall quality of the device, I really really don't think it would last for 18 months.
I understand 1 (possibly) and 3 were not the fault of the actual device but after issues 2 and 4 cropped up I just decided to return it and got a Omnia 7 instead.
So far for me the Omnia 7 is much better, seems much more higher build quality and its made from metal, the buttons have a nice satisfying click to them, and the screen is just gorgeous, aswell as it being much faster at loading apps and games.
The only reason I took the HD7 over the Omnia 7 in the first place was the double storage but that's not worth the trade off for me.

Oh Yes!!
Having bought an iPhone when they first came out and then giving it to one of our engineers within a week (he thought all his birthdays had come at once!) as deemed useless for true functionality compared with WM6. And then enjoyed my Touch HD I was in eager anticipation of the HD7.
Absolutely love it
Good OS - and looking forward to the updates
Brilliant device - everybody that sees it drools over it and rushes to renew their contract
I have been using email on my mobiles for years and have to say that the HD7 is by far the most brilliant device for actually 'doing business' on the move - big & bright and cool to use
Edit: Forgot to mention - the Office Hub is a 'killer': Was at a presentation yesterday with 2min before I stood up and realised I needed info from a spreadsheet which I thought was on my HD7 (but wasn't) - it took me 30secs to get it! - try doing that with an Android or iPhone...
Regards
CD (UK)

The only issue I have so far is the battery life but I've only done a couple of charges so hopefully that will improve.
It's early days for me but at the moment I am happier than I thought I would be. I'm trying Zune pass at the moment and really liking it. Maybe I didn't need the 16GB after all.
I though about the Omnia 7 but didn't want another 18/24 month contract and the PAYG prices being thrown around were a lot more expensive. Plus, I couldn't actually find anyone selling it on PAYG!

Had it for a bit now, had a few bugs happen, but I would not change it for any other phone out there.
Omnia 7 is a 100% no go for me because of the 8gb memory, I only have about 500meg left on my HD7 and will be ugrading to 32gb asap.
Im still not convinced in AMOLED screens, the colours never look right to me and the edges arnt smooth (looking at my sisters and aunts desires) The look stunning, but they dont look real if that makes sence? I would have loved to have an SLCD in it though. But to be honest the HD7 screen looks fantastic because I have the backlight on 100% all the time.
Battery life isnt that bad, it could be better, but it IS better than my HD2's was.
Biggest niggle is bluetooth audio streaming of music doesnt seem to be as high as quality as my HD2s theres everso slight distortion on high notes. Not that noticable, but enough to niggle me.
Once the updates start to roll out its going to be an incredible device.
Im wondering if an update will be rolled out when the US launch happens? why else would it be delayed? or at least im hoping the promised 60 xbox live that were supposed to be available at launch will be availble at the american launch.
Overall best phone I have ever used, the user experiance is fantastic, its just so nice to use every day, and that completely overruls any niggles I have had, which no doubt will be sorted very soon.

Had mine unlocked for 24h now and just learning the OS but what i'm seeing is fantastic! I've come from a HD2 where as soon as i got it i flashed a custom rom then ran adroid on it for ages but now i could never go back even after 24h!!!
there are a few niggles, coming from android where you had settings for everything there does seem to be a real lack of options just the basics to to get you through, i also cant see how to add a picture to a contact who isnt on my facebook?????
i agree with whats been posted before, this OS has the potential to be the best one out there it just needs to grow.

I've had mine for 2 weeks now and love it! Yes some things are missing and there are a few bugs in the OS, but I'm willing to persiverre because what it does give it does really well.
I had an HD2 with Energy's custome roms for a year now and I am so over HTC Sense (I used earlier versions on my Diamond and Orbit too)and now the "new" HTC apps looks very dated amongst the WP7 Metro apps.
Email, something I could not really get working very well on my HD2, runs like a dream on WP7 and I'm turning into a sick email junkie (help!).
As for the screen, everyone keeps knocking this phone in favour of the Samsung, but in reality, the screen on the HD7 is better than the HD2 and can hold it's own. Might not look as good next to a Samsung, but who cares? Are you going to hold an HD7 and Samsung next to each other 24/7? No? Then you won't notice the difference.

Is the email better on the WP7 than Android. The email on Android drove me up the wall with its bugs and weird behaviour. I have seen a few people on this thread mention positively the email so I am hopeful.

Yes, without a doubt, sure it has a few bugs that Microsoft can fix, but these will not stop me loving this device, never going back to an iPhone again, I'll be sticking to Windows Phone or Android devices from here on in, I had the 3GS then the iPhone 4 and now it's on Ebay as I got bored with it

Super Chimp said:
Is the email better on the WP7 than Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can pinch and zoom with HTML email which is fantastically useful, and keeps the email as the sender intended. From my understanding (Neowin WP7 vs Android Communication Comparison) Android doesn't do this.

foaf said:
You can pinch and zoom with HTML email which is fantastically useful, and keeps the email as the sender intended. From my understanding (Neowin WP7 vs Android Communication Comparison) Android doesn't do this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The main problems I had with Android was that I often had issues setting up POP email accounts on it. Also could behave oddly when picking up messages, I used to get phantom messages or it would not pick them up correctly or in some cases at all.

oh yes i would, though tbh i would of sold my fish tank and got it on payg and unlocked it as o2 contract prices are so steep and the coverage i not as good as tmobile (not sure if this is the same everywhere but around where i live its the case). I will be honest if it wasn't for the fact all other devices are only 8gb i would not have gone for the hd7 but rather the omnia but there is no way i can live with 8gb. The only annoying thing is that when i'm playing games i sometimes touch the search button esp if i have the phone plugged in at the time due to the way i then have to hold it, but if you press back it goes right back to where you left off.
in conclusion it was not my phone of choice but my hand was forced by the internal storage but i am glad it was, the omnia is no better and my second choice mozart seems cheap and to smiler to my old desire. I love the size of the phone i was worried when i first saw it but the shape is like nothing i have ever seen and make it slip into the pocket easier then my old desire and yet i get all that screen.

Quick question guys. Does the HD7 not have a flash? I thought it does.

Yes, the HD7 has a dual LED flash (at least mine does!)