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Android is open. That's why I have my Samsung Galaxy S, my Nexus One and my Sapphire.
I have these phones because the open community can do better than the professionals, and I am proud to be a member of a community that has recently hacked Froyo onto the G1, Android2HD2 (and other Winmo devices), created great skins and themes, rooted almost every droid to date, hacked google navigation to work in other countries etc etc etc.
There is amazing work being done is this community.
Kingklick was able to put out a lot of ROMs which satisfied a lot of people. Contributors to Cyanogenmod (disclaimer. notably not Cyanogen himself) and others (fans and friends - disclaimer. note lack of word fanboys - of cyanogenmod, disclaimer. plus some others too) have flamed and flamed away about Kangklick (notably via twitter - I have stopped following any of those jerks that clogged up my feeds with what could've - screw that - should've been settled MUCH more privately..I followed you guys for dev news or the occasional interesting insight into your real life, not your petty bickering, but you have every right to post what you like...hence why I stopped following you all, I didn't flame you...note 'bigger man').
Rule 12 of XDArules clearly states that using the work of others must be done with permission, independent of whether it is open source or not. If this is not upheld then the post will be bought down, it does not say the user will be banned. I would understand the formality of taking the post down and requesting Kingklick reposts the ROM with due credit, but I believe - note believe...implies opinion - that moderators may have been influenced by pressure from other (high ranking, public eye) members and thus did not adhere to normal or just (I do not know if not giving creds is normally treated in this way, but you will discover I believe it shouldn't be) protacol. Kingklick broke the rules of XDA, but then again I see his banning as the least contentious issue here.
I believe that members of the XDA community in the public eye (ie with large Twitter follower base) due to their work via XDA (no matter what you say, cyanogenmod may be based at its own domain, but it still posts at XDA to maintain its public profile and feed of the massive XDA userbase, and is hence in part bound by this) have a responsibility to follow the rules of XDA on XDA rules and disputes. I do not think this is something which can be policed ('I'm banning you Wes for Trolling Kingklick...on Twitter'... not gonna work) but I think it is a moral obligation (anyone that thinks the internet is not bound by morality should take a reality check...the reason why we have open source is essentially ethics).
Do we give credit to Linus Torvalds every time we distribute linux kernels or work to do with linux? Do we give credit to those that helped him create this base? Do we give credit to Google for creating Android? HTC? Our carriers? Martin Cooper for inventing the mobile phone and cell networks? Time Berners-Lee for inventing the internet, giving rise to this forum, Google and thus the Phones/Devices we love and use? The fact is we don't give credit where due (although you may say its obscure to thank these people, they DO deserve our thanks). None of the ROM chefs/coders give all credit where due, but a lot do in part, with those directly involved. But who still thanks the original rooters?
Kingklick has been declared a copier by the jury...I haven't delved through the evidence to confirm this...but shouldn't we be much more relaxed about copying in general? All users should be open about their work with Android, but they are not. If kingklick based a build off Cyanongenmod, and gave due credit for that, he would be called unoriginal, despite his attempts to make improvements. I also believe that there should be transparency, a log of all complaints of interest and the community told in a statement from the mods why someone was banned...at least in part (keeping gory details to themselves thank you very much).
Donations are generally given by 'end-users'...noobs who can flash and maybe do some work on the builds but their contributions are limited. End users generally want user experience, and reward devs with commendation and donations. If kingklick does work on a build which satisfies more users and he hence gets donations, is that stealing donations? No. The original dev works on an open source project knowing that their work is open, but the end user can reward as he/she likes. Perhaps kingklick developed his following due to his branding...he did always use words like FAST and STABLE and SMOOTH, but Apple do the same and they're not banned from trading despite the hyperbole.
I do not doubt that a lot of devs thanks fellow devs with donations. Cyanogen is well known for donating, as is kingklick, however a lot of donations come from end users, and if kingklick replaces a few files using winrar (something which I generally contest, I believe kingklick does a lot of great work) and that satisfies more end users by being fast and stable and smooth (or perceived as being so thanks to branding) then he can get donations for that, they are a gesture of satisfaction and goodwill.
Kingklick was immoral by not giving true credit, however I believe that he could have been warned and asked to give credit once he got back from his night out (whether that excuse, or what ever his actual excuse was, was true).
I also laugh at the accusation that kingklick does not fill a niche within the 'open'/'free' community. This should not result in grudges and flame wars, whether it is true or not. Kingklick did fill a niche in my opinion: reviewers (and consumers) see vanilla android as being sterile. Hell it is sterile, and it's never going to be as successful as others if it doesn't sort this out. Cyanogenmod and other big names are based off this sterile form of Android, but they don't delve into Sense UI and other alternative skins, mainly due to preferences or copyright problems etc, not that that stops them with other things. Kingklick did work with these and he filled his niche by delivering great, fast, usable roms of these whilst others sneered at them for being inefficient coding or whatever...geeky snobbery.
Kingklick also delivered various fixes and things which other groups did not. I won't list all of these and I am sure representatives of Cyanogenmob et al will say 'we were gonna fix these issues anyways' or 'that's redundant' or 'that was patchy code', but kingklick has contributed. Obviously we have to hold ethics above output, we can not say that 'his holiness' (inteneded to mock those who believe cyanogen alone is a god, not cyanogen himself) Cyanogen's contributions to android exempt him from following conduct, but we do a great job of driving away good developers with flaming and telling tales. Perhaps you'll say kingklick was not a good developer, Drizzy, even Haykuro etc etc, but I only flashed Cyanogenmod on my Nexus once and I didn't like it for various reasons (personal preference yada yada) but I kept going back for more kingklick...whether that's perceived speed and branding etc or just satisfaction.
King's desire roms are great, but we never mobbed, trolled and banned the poor guy for not giving creds to HTC. Surely the morality of our community using software like Rosie on the Nexus is more ethically questionable than a fellow member of XDA's work, since HTC is a firm which employs people. I bought a Nexus over the Desire because I knew I could still have Sense and a bigger dev community, however the cost included in the Desire which goes to the developers of Sense is hence forgone (perhaps indeirectly, I don;t know HTC internal funding); therefore I have - and anyone who has ever flashed a Sense ROM or devved with Sense - indirectly caused loss of welfare for people who rely of developing as their source of income, tehir families, communities and economies. Surely that is less ethical than not saying thank you, but XDA has no problem with that. Perhaps it is too small to notice, but it will have an indirect impact nonetheless.
Yes kingklick should've said his please and thank you, but I think it's community hyped double standards, pretensical courtesy (not that I wouldn't give creds, it's just that pleases and thank yous are nice, but not actually useful). A wise man once said 'there is no threshold for immorality', just because kingklick did a larger 'crime' than the rest of the community in not giving his thanks out, that does not exempt the other rule breakers (ie everyone), it just means their punishment should be less severe...we choose to ignore it because it's less direct or forgotten about.
In conclusion, I think we should start a 'contributors to Android' part of XDA, added to by mods or specifically appointed members of the community (like the portal). This could be informative and could mean that forgotten about contributors could not be forgotten, but their contributions immortalised in the open community of Android. Even if the contributions become redundant, they are the foundations for the next chapter in the Android story.
Finally. www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html is a very good read..and think about what AOSP stands for (I'll give you a clue...Android Open Source Project!). Can you steal what is open? What right have others to dictate what can and cannot be distributed in the open aspects of Android code (ie the underlying OS and vanilla UI...I'm not confused with Apps). Perhaps kingklick was guilty of plagiarism? But so is anyone that claims they worked really hard in that kernel without crediting Linus and leaving a donation link to his family or favourite charitable causes. Anyone that says I've reworked the UI without giving credits to The Astonishing Tribe for the original Android concepts which all UIs are based off...
Android is closed, that's why I question this 'community'.
I am not proud to be a member of this 'community'...right now.
Ps. Cyanogenmob was originally a typo (using words like mobbed in my piece...Freudian slip on the keyboard rather than fat finger syndrome)...but I kept it in as I thought it was funny...the Cyogenmob should replace team douche IMHO!
Wow, didn't realise how long it was...out of interest has anyone actually read the whole thing !?
Yeah, I read it and agree to some extent.
While what he did was wrong, he shouldn't be banned for it. I do not know all the circumstances around it but from what I read it appears he made sense UI for the Nexus one?
I believe that cyanogen is becoming more and more powerful as a body and it is starting to strong arm others when they believe they are in the wrong. I don't understand why people should shunned as he was simply because he didn't give due credit. From seeing all these devs get the boot from websites because they didn't give all the sources for their work. This is a major hinderance from some people wanting to develop new ROMs. I mean it seems that some people want to get credit for what they did and want to have the fame of what they developed, and not just because they wanted to further the development of phones and custom ROMS.
Some people may not agree with my stance, but I just think you give people another chance for slip ups like that one and not just a boot with no questions asked.
The problem is NOT just using other people work with/without permission...
The problem is cheating the users to get more donations:
Example:
-DevA: Oh, i've been 3 nights compiling the code for you all!!!!
-Users: Ohhh, thankyou, gonna donate for your hard work!!!
-DevA: Ok, here you have the link (and the download is from DevB work with a little text-editor touch-up).
That's not the way of doing things (imho)
sorry but no. the proper way is
devA: "i took all of jubeh's work and 'optimized a text file' and uploaded it, pretty awesome right?"
you: "cool story bro"
devA: "i need a new phone"
you: "im poor but wth if you keep not making your own work and ask for donations"
devA: "ya rly"
you: "maybe i should've donated to the guy that made this all and not the one that file pushed the wifi files over... =("
wow lets have some proof of this please and i quote "Cyanogen is well known for donating, as is kingklick" we know cyan does but prove king does if not take the statement out
If King put in the same amount of effort HazzBazz put in to creating this thread/writing that ever so long first post, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But really, did we need another thread on this topic ? I lost track but theres been atleast 10+ threads discussing this and all resulting in a lock/user under investigation.
See guys no one from cm contributors told anyone bout banning kk but yes every one was angry that he never gave credit to anyone. We told him a hundred time already to give credit. I don't know if bbannin does justice here but still he violated a lot of rules. He never released his kernel source. Never gave credits for others hard work. Bout drizzy he got banned for scamming a user. It's not winrar but winzip Get ur facts right. We r talking bout crediting the work of the community. If u do something spending day n night on expecting nothing but some respect or credit for ur work u get angry in ur language doing 1 month job n not getting paid. I would recommend u all try contributing before writing such justifications n flames n more. So kingklick was wrong n given many warnings before being banned. He was not a bad dev or something but as I told u reward for a contributor is credits. Bout donating I guess from tomorrow I'll start packaging cm froyo nightlys change the name of the Rom post it n start asking for donations. I'll even put some unicorns n ponies in it for u guys so it ismagical. N if u thing stuff can be fixed without the source u r wrong. For fixing 99% percent of stuff u need to know how to work with source n compile. Rest 1% are silver by pushing files. And again no one from cm asked any mod to ban him. It was their internal decision. There was no influence whatsoever
And one more thing. U all remember Eugene whom u all made run away from magic n dream. He even caught kingklick using his work by adding a coded name oc the Rom that clearly said Eugene n this made king cry. He started accepting he used Eugene work then more proofs came in of he just changing build.prop n posting as his
Hey guys seriously, i spent like all weekend making a site for you to help hax your phones. bandwidth is expensive, so please donate to me!!!!!!! if you like all the work i put into this. you can check my site out at: http://forum.xda-developers.com and if it helps you out, please buy my a nexus. thanks and i'm still here
enatefox said:
Hey guys seriously, i spent like all weekend making a site for you to help hax your phones. bandwidth is expensive, so please donate to me!!!!!!! if you like all the work i put into this. you can check my site out at: http://forum.xda-developers.com and if it helps you out, please buy my a nexus. thanks and i'm still here
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I lawl'd.
I don't have enough money for my family, but you can have some. Where's your donate link you hard worker?
tl;dr
enatefox said:
Hey guys seriously, i spent like all weekend making a site for you to help hax your phones. bandwidth is expensive, so please donate to me!!!!!!! if you like all the work i put into this. you can check my site out at: http://forum.xda-developers.com and if it helps you out, please buy my a nexus. thanks and i'm still here
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Damn man, that site is stupid fast
Im poor and living on the streets but i cant imagine how much work it must've been. Im donating to u
AnderWeb said:
The problem is NOT just using other people work with/without permission...
The problem is cheating the users to get more donations:
Example:
-DevA: Oh, i've been 3 nights compiling the code for you all!!!!
-Users: Ohhh, thankyou, gonna donate for your hard work!!!
-DevA: Ok, here you have the link (and the download is from DevB work with a little text-editor touch-up).
That's not the way of doing things (imho)
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Kingklick developed a fanbase. If they donated is that a crime? He didn't hold for ransom, he just released work without due credit, perhaps mostly someone else's work (havent seen evidence) and hey I put a paper out last term without my complete bibliography done because I was so excited to get it out and I was going away for a week...I finished it off over the break and put it out when I was back, funny that didn't start a war on the internet.
enatefox said:
sorry but no. the proper way is
devA: "i took all of jubeh's work and 'optimized a text file' and uploaded it, pretty awesome right?"
you: "cool story bro"
devA: "i need a new phone"
you: "im poor but wth if you keep not making your own work and ask for donations"
devA: "ya rly"
you: "maybe i should've donated to the guy that made this all and not the one that file pushed the wifi files over... =("
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I like how you're not using any form of personal attack in discussing this issue...give me an example of when kingklick asked asked for donations...theyre just appreciated. And hell did Jubreh give credit to ALL the people who helped him...Linus Torvalds etc? No, so we are all in part imperfect for not giving 'full credit'...call me anal or not.
Daneshm90 said:
If King put in the same amount of effort HazzBazz put in to creating this thread/writing that ever so long first post, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But really, did we need another thread on this topic ? I lost track but theres been atleast 10+ threads discussing this and all resulting in a lock/user under investigation.
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None of them were philosophical...Ive just finished my second year on joint honours in Philosophy so I find it interesting...and it's not exactly an effort to pile out this when I did it all through term time anyway.
charnsingh_online said:
It's not winrar but winzip Get ur facts right.
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LOL I guess that makes me an invalid...nice
charnsingh_online said:
We r talking bout crediting the work of the community. If u do something spending day n night on expecting nothing but some respect or credit for ur work u get angry in ur language doing 1 month job n not getting paid.
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well uhhhh no its not because you expect to be paid for your job, and in fact you have legal rights ...open source developing is COMPLETELY different
charnsingh_online said:
I would recommend u all try contributing
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True yeah we should all try it...I'm hoping to do computer science post-grad if I get a first...but we dont all have the time or the expertise. I do some file pushing for myself, but I dont release it because if I did (despite getting my roms running fast and to my liking) I'd get slated by some snooty coders and fanboys.
charnsingh_online said:
before writing such justifications n flames n more.
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nb. see lack of flaming...
charnsingh_online said:
It was their internal decision. There was no influence whatsoever
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Try twitter.com and look at a lot of members of Cyanogenmob's (still sticking by that, will use that in non-derogatory circumstances, still revelling in the typo!) tweets.
And hey if kingklick can deliver to the end users then there's no use slagging him off...youre equally insulting anyone that thought his roms were good. His slide rom has so much positive feedback for instance.
JAguirre1231 said:
I lawl'd.
I don't have enough money for my family, but you can have some. Where's your donate link you hard worker?
tl;dr
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Daneshm90 said:
Damn man, that site is stupid fast
Im poor and living on the streets but i cant imagine how much work it must've been. Im donating to u
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Yay mock donators now too.
HazzBazz, since you're gonna be like this here goes:
We all know the kangers. They're everywhere from your local grocer to the bus driver. Yes, kangers live peacefully among us. What you didn't know is that the real issue, for me at least, is that when I had my old Windows phone w/Android ported on it, we would bust our asses off (look at the Vogue thread) and people would micro-manage or "release" our work as theirs. Basically we would bust our asses off for free (never have I ever asked for a donation nor have I received a single penny for my time) and these people would zip it up and host it on their own site and build a fan base.
Ok so what right? well the people that post in those threads then have bugs to report. who do they report them too? the guy that said he made the ROM-- not us. he says "lolz i don't know guys" then we fix it then he gets thanked. then, he gets the donation. it pisses me off and I never got paid. imagine the unemployed devs out there.
You can at least see my point, right?
F'sure. Hence why I dont release anything. But to you guys kangers are pests. I do not doubt that kangers should be policed. However the credit issue is something which is neglected at a small level by everyone, so no one is perfect...and the great thing about a big site like xda is that most kangers on other websites have tiny fanbases.
I respect your work because of its own credence, and plagiarism will sure as hell piss anyone off who puts time into things, but we must remember that these are donations, given freely. I think we should do more to inform the 'end users' than ban and drive away devs who deliver what some users want...albeit with some undue credit (inform..allow the end users to make informed decisions).
HazzBazz said:
Kingklick developed a fanbase. If they donated is that a crime? He didn't hold for ransom, he just released work without due credit, perhaps mostly someone else's work (havent seen evidence)
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I will stop you there as the rest of what you say is boring.
Oh and use the search button or cache on google to find(as you call it) evidence
Have a Nice Day
If you like my work, buy bill gates a stuffed penguin.
Love it yeah. Your logical, fair and anticipatory argument leaves me speechless.
'Rest of what you say is boring'...darn I'm upset and speechless...that hurts. It's like Primary school bullies here, only fails.
With regard to 'haven't seen evidence'...I wasn't saying kingklick did or did not do that or this...Im simply saying I (personally) havent seen the evidence (not because it doesn't exist or does exist), but ultimately Kingklick was found guilty of using someone else's work without saying please and thankyou, and was hence driven away from us.
I will be hated on, but I don't care. Bring the King back. I love his Desire Sense UI ROM's.
Ok, I want to state first off, I haven't tried this "rom" (aka CM7 build). I have built roms for a WM phone before, but never for android.
That said, I don't know why this guy was banned. I'm not trying to get involved in any way. I noticed in his thread the mod stated he's not comfortable with someone cooking for a phone they don't own. I want to point out though, this would NOT be the first person to cook up things for this phone without owning a DInc. I do believe Kingxclick for one example never owned a DInc yet was cranking out kernals for it. I believe but not 100% sure that Ruby was started without owning a DInc also. I'm not *****ing, I'd LOVE to see more love for my DInc, but it seems kinda nuts to get upset over 1 person dev'n for a phone they don't own, but it's been perfectly ok for others to have done the same in the past. All I'm saying here is, if there's some other reason for the ban, that's fine. But the post in the thread implies it has to do with him cooking a rom when he doesn't own a DInc. If dev's aren't supposed to cook roms (or kernals) for phones they don't own, I think that it should be clearly stated somewhere. Might fix some confusion down the line.....
I completely agree. This is supposed to be a place for free thinking and free ideas. Who cares whether or not you own a device as long as you aren't intentionally trying to damage other peoples. We all know the risks of flashing something on our phones. I thought the point of this site was to promote thinking outside the box and doing what we want to with our bought and paid for devices. If that means using something someone built that doesn't own the device it was built for shouldn't that be our choice? Again if that wasn't the reason for the ban than disregard this statement.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I agree with both of these posts. Owning a device shouldn't be a pre-requisite for developing for it - there are plenty of people who do own the device who can test software for you.
As said above, if that wasn't the reason for the ban, disregard this.
Who is this about
HTC Incredible 2.3.1
Yea if he wants to make stuff for us who cares if he actually has the phone?
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
This about androidball?
HTC Incredible 2.3.1
I read on twitter that he was banned for multiple accounts, which he denies.
AndroidBall was banned for being a duplicate account of a banned user. Same goes for R2DoesInc. Against forum rules, plain and simple.
Thread closed.
I understand this may not be the place or the time for this, but I have to ask due to the recent ban and closure of one of the primary threads I contribute too here on XDA.
I happen to be a Vivid owner. I am a trained IT guy and have over 20 years of hardware support and over 10 years of software/hardware development testing and support. Having worked for NASA and Compaq/HP. I would like to think I'm mature as the next guy. But I do maintain a certain level of immaturity so that I can enjoy life when needed.
I am totally at a loss as to why Synergye, who is by far one of the most dedicated and involved developers I have ever had the pleasure to work with has been banned and his development thread close by some unknown mod for some unknown reason. I have never seen a dev that is as attentive to his product as Synergye is. He takes all the input and cranks out new code sometimes in as little as an hour. His kernel went from a1 to about 16, then from beta1 to 16 and is now in RC state and tweaked to the point of almost being perfect.
The man is a machine. I have worked with teams of devs that could not keep up with him. The whole while he is dealing with the f00ked up code that HTC has handicapped our device with. And he has also been involved in other projects most of that same time. (Anyone familiar with codefires ASOP HTC Vivid ROM??)?
I don't need to know who or why is behind this. I just want to express that if this mod is holding personal grudges against Syn then he shouldn't be a mod!!! Mods should be impartial and fair. How do I know? I have been one many times before on both forums and IRC!!!!
So delete this thread ot lock it and ban me. I have no power here and I am just a peon in the pecking order here. That's OK we (i and the frog in my pocket) can go play somewhere else!
I agree with u sir. He was a great developer that's been updating his kernel almost every other day or every day. I love his work and think the mod that banned him needs to rethink his decision and like you said xda isn't the only place to get his latest work
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
Not all of them, just those who do not follow the forum rules.
Move along, nothing to see here....
How is it that we are all just consumers who have the same device and enjoy building and hacking our said devices. We all try and work together and help others and when one of us is cast out for there misgression and forced to join a new community to continue being a consumer who wants to share and enjoy his works and accomplishments. That we cant even help our own community who might have enjoyed his work or his banter and befriended him. To find and give an easy way to get to where he is now. All because he was deemed a problem to our community. Since when did the police run the world? Just because there are laws does not give the police the right to just shoot dead a murder unless forced to. And then he is then looked into for possible crimes. When a murder is found he is put to justice from a group of his peers. Well I don't remember anyone deciding that anyone was deemed guilty and should forced to be banned to another community. Regardless of the "rules". Anyways this was my rant. I dont even care truthfully about who was banned. I just can't stand when authority chooses to abuse there power or at least throw it around Willy nilly. This Is a free community and to be told we can not choose to give out information even if the information is so that others can find banned members is not considered fair. And I infect just might have to find a higher up mod or even a possible site creater. If this nonsense is forced to continue. Yes I could choose to leave like many others. But why should I? This is just as good a place as any. The people in power and as well the idiots who make trouble are what is making this place unusable. And is why many people ate choosing to leave and join many other places. Alright I'm done. Ban me, delete this, lock it so no one can agree with me. Take away my right to speech. Do as u so obviously will. I can create accounts to my life's content. Good day.
Sent from my HTC VIVID using XDA
Sir I agree with you completely! The mods just go willy nilly banning and deleting/locking posts left and right when it was some of the mods that was giving out IP addresses. What's dumb is that anyone can easily change their IP and just make a new account. I do it every 30 minutes so my desktop can't be traced. The mods need to come together as a group and then decide if said person is guilty not just have any of them banning anyone they don't like. C'mon guys this is a community not a dictatorship. Were here to develop and help others make their devices better then what was originally handed to them. Mods just be fair that's all we ask. Delete me or block me or ban me if u want I'll just change my IP and Make a new account.
Can you imagine running a site of 4+ mn users? And then without knowing any fact - out comes the accusations.
A ban is only warranted as a last resort and not something we do because we "abuse" powers.
The op mentions that he doesnt even know who was banned and for what reasons, so i guess the complete thread becomes redundant.
We are not here to police anyone and the least to ban anyone.. we love our community to grow, just like you do..
Lets keep up the spirit of XDA alive
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You dont say?
More out of curiosity but what was the action that was deemed ban able ? Since the posts it selves were removed and censored the members of this board are only seeing the hammer being thrown at the members.
Sent from my De-Sensed HTC Vivid using xda app-developers app
theshamrockking said:
...This is just as goof a place as any...
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No truer words have ever been spoken. This place is right up there with the goofiest.
From the little bit I've been able to glean from what's been left un-deleted, it seems a perfect storm of insecurity, disrespect, ignorance and arrogance has struck the Vivid forums these past few months.
MondoMor said:
From the little bit I've been able to glean from what's been left un-deleted, it seems a perfect storm of insecurity, disrespect, ignorance and arrogance has struck the Vivid forums these past few months.
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Correction: Pretty much ever since its inception.
Sent from my HTC Holiday using XDA Premium App
PG101 said:
Can you imagine running a site of 4+ mn users? And then without knowing any fact - out comes the accusations.
A ban is only warranted as a last resort and not something we do because we "abuse" powers.
The op mentions that he doesnt even know who was banned and for what reasons, so i guess the complete thread becomes redundant.
We are not here to police anyone and the least to ban anyone.. we love our community to grow, just like you do..
Lets keep up the spirit of XDA alive
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My main point behind my post was that I thought it was unfair and complete nonsense to delete and edit/censor a topic made for our community by someone who was not a banned member and didn't tech.fiscally do anything other than try and help "us" the community find the work of someone they might enjoy the work of. New community where he now resides. And the mods response for why was u were linking to a banned member. Well who gives a **** he isint here on "your" forum. So why try and bully the rest of u's because the mod or mods had a person opinion on the person. Now that the member has been banned its none of your business if any of us want to still be in contact with him. And to try and control who we choose to stay in contact with is just blatantly an abuse of power.
I'm sorry if my original post didn't make as much sense as it should have. I went on a complete rant.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
kevsthabest said:
More out of curiosity but what was the action that was deemed ban able ? Since the posts it selves were removed and censored the members of this board are only seeing the hammer being thrown at the members.
Sent from my De-Sensed HTC Vivid using xda app-developers app
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And you have a huge point. No one ever knows anything. And the rest of u's are left Pissed or feeling betrayed by the mods. For banning someone that we might have liked.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
MondoMor said:
No truer words have ever been spoken. This place is right up there with the goofiest.
From the little bit I've been able to glean from what's been left un-deleted, it seems a perfect storm of insecurity, disrespect, ignorance and arrogance has struck the Vivid forums these past few months.
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Haha thx lol I didn't choose to proof read it. I was on a rant. Just didn't pay any attention. I even rambled a lil. Lol
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
Aus_Azn said:
Correction: Pretty much ever since its inception.
Sent from my HTC Holiday using XDA Premium App
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I agree.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
theshamrockking said:
And you have a huge point. No one ever knows anything. And the rest of u's are left Pissed or feeling betrayed by the mods. For banning someone that we might have liked.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
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The links (meaning more than one) that were contained in the posts themselves were a violation of the rules. Second, the content at the location of one links was directed to a whole thread on a different site that was nothing but false accusations. I personally felt that this should have warranted a ban of this other person, but after discussing with the other mods, i was shot down, so he was just warned. You should be aware that the mods act as a team, we do discuss things like these and get second opinions to try to keep everything level and fair. I am not saying we are perfect, but everything does generally end up in a discussion.
As stated above, the Vivid board has been a huge problem and pain in the a$$ since the beginning. People can blame the poor marketing strategy of device which resulted in slow development. But ultimately it boiled down to a lot of disrespect among members and dev's who failed to get along. This board is the furthest thing i have ever seen from a community effort, it's quite sad how the people on here have acted. I can honestly say that i have never experienced anything like it since i joined XDA back in 2006.
shogunmark said:
The links (meaning more than one) that were contained in the posts themselves were a violation of the rules. Second, the content at the location of one links was directed to a whole thread on a different site that was nothing but false accusations. I personally felt that this should have warranted a ban of this other person, but after discussing with the other mods, i was shot down, so he was just warned. You should be aware that the mods act as a team, we do discuss things like these and get second opinions to try to keep everything level and fair. I am not saying we are perfect, but everything does generally end up in a discussion.
As stated above, the Vivid board has been a huge problem and pain in the a$$ since the beginning. People can blame the poor marketing strategy of device which resulted in slow development. But ultimately it boiled down to a lot of disrespect among members and dev's who failed to get along. This board is the furthest thing i have ever seen from a community effort, it's quite sad how the people on here have acted. I can honestly say that i have never experienced anything like it since i joined XDA back in 2006.
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I agree that the whole as the vivid forum has be complete nonsense. And.I understand that u do have a job. And that it is to "police" the rest of us. And that's fine. But I don't believe that u should be able to stop us from being able to link to a dev who was banned. Stoping a link to a thread about hate mongering that's fine if u feel it's worthy. But to not allow us to make it easier for our own fellow members to find said dev. Is just childish. It seems like half of the devs have gone or have been banned. So a lot of us have to constantly check multiple places to get the fastest info and progress. And pretty soon there won't be any one left here. Is that really the best option? Why not work with the devs or the problematic individuals? I understand that can be a lot harder than it sounds. But be reasonable this phone already has enough issues with the fact that we have so few devs. Don't squash the last few we have. I think something should be worked out so every dev we know on this phone can try and work together. Or at least we try and find another great dev and buy him a vivid to help us out on.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
Isn't it great when mods themselves don't even know the rules? In any case, I actually have a lot of great things to say about this dev community, since it's turned into "bash the vivid community."
A few things I'd like to address here (and hopefully SOMEONE reads it before this is deleted/account banned...only reason I created this account was for this one post). I even see a mod (shogunmark) bashing the community, when the devs inside it have very little issue working together:
This community is one of the best Android dev communities I've been a part of. You're more than likely shocked to hear that! The reason why is that I haven't encountered one dev here who has refused help, or not been kind to other devs. This excludes GSLeon3 who wanted to keep his work to himself and posted he would no longer release here, but linked to another site. I've worked with contactwajeeh (who will now be posting his work on rootz exclusively from what I understand due to moderation/having his IP leaked), rafyvitto (who left early on due to moderation), cruzin_cruzing, Leigh Kennedy, and KozmikKick (excluding the many devs on other devices of course).
I have always believed that android development should be about sharing info openly and helping one another since we do this as a hobby. There isn't fame in it. It's about wanting to make the device you own better, and then sharing it with others who have the same device. What you see here are mostly releases and support. To those of you who are on IRC actively, you see devs working together, asking each other for help when they need it, sharing logs, and letting each other know what they did to accomplish any given hurdle on this device. I left my previous main community due to major noncooperation between devs, and have been more than happy to find this incredible group that completely share my Android ideology. I WILL SAY IT AGAIN, I HAVEN'T HAD PROBLEMS WITH ONE DEV BEING UNKIND, OR UNHELPFUL. ONLY POSSIBLE EXCEPTION WAS A MODERATOR(applies to all of the devs on this device no doubt).
Moving on to my claims (which were promptly deleted before I was banned, so the users could not make up their own minds). I do security auditing/pen-testing for a living and enjoy practicing full discretion when possible. I felt it was my duty to make users aware of the potential security concern if it still was a problem. I made these posts after many various users found out their IP's had been leaked, and only posted in my own thread. I assumed moderation would be mature enough to let the users read what I had presented, and decide for themselves. Rather than act as if they're covering a whistle-blower!
Well, here's to hoping that moderation lets at the very least a few of the users who have come here for answers finish reading this before it's deleted and this account banned. I earnestly do not care about this account being banned. I would like this post to stay as-is since authority figures are slandering this device, and it's dev community with in-accurate information.
You stay classy XDA
BangBangKang said:
Isn't it great when mods themselves don't even know the rules? In any case, I actually have a lot of great things to say about this dev community, since it's turned into "bash the vivid community."
A few things I'd like to address here (and hopefully SOMEONE reads it before this is deleted/account banned...only reason I created this account was for this one post). I even see a mod (shogunmark) bashing the community, when the devs inside it have very little issue working together:
This community is one of the best Android dev communities I've been a part of. You're more than likely shocked to hear that! The reason why is that I haven't encountered one dev here who has refused help, or not been kind to other devs. This excludes GSLeon3 who wanted to keep his work to himself and posted he would no longer release here, but linked to another site. I've worked with contactwajeeh (who will now be posting his work on rootz exclusively from what I understand due to moderation/having his IP leaked), rafyvitto (who left early on due to moderation), cruzin_cruzing, Leigh Kennedy, and KozmikKick (excluding the many devs on other devices of course).
I have always believed that android development should be about sharing info openly and helping one another since we do this as a hobby. There isn't fame in it. It's about wanting to make the device you own better, and then sharing it with others who have the same device. What you see here are mostly releases and support. To those of you who are on IRC actively, you see devs working together, asking each other for help when they need it, sharing logs, and letting each other know what they did to accomplish any given hurdle on this device. I left my previous main community due to major noncooperation between devs, and have been more than happy to find this incredible group that completely share my Android ideology. I WILL SAY IT AGAIN, I HAVEN'T HAD PROBLEMS WITH ONE DEV BEING UNKIND, OR UNHELPFUL. ONLY POSSIBLE EXCEPTION WAS A MODERATOR(applies to all of the devs on this device no doubt).
Moving on to my claims (which were promptly deleted before I was banned, so the users could not make up their own minds). I do security auditing/pen-testing for a living and enjoy practicing full discretion when possible. I felt it was my duty to make users aware of the potential security concern if it still was a problem. I made these posts after many various users found out their IP's had been leaked, and only posted in my own thread. I assumed moderation would be mature enough to let the users read what I had presented, and decide for themselves. Rather than act as if they're covering a whistle-blower!
Well, here's to hoping that moderation lets at the very least a few of the users who have come here for answers finish reading this before it's deleted and this account banned. I earnestly do not care about this account being banned. I would like this post to stay as-is since authority figures are slandering this device, and it's dev community with in-accurate information.
You stay classy XDA
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Thank you. I'm glad more people are speaking up. And even more so that people who know more about all of what's going on are speaking up.
Sent from my HTC PH39100
*SIGH*...not another one of these threads? You all are causing a ruckus over a developer who couldn't and didn't want to follow the rules and better yet could care less about any one of you. Please stop wasting your time and move on.
So I've been frequenting these forums for years now. And specifically the Note5 forums ever since I got an n920i. Coming from a OnePlus One, the development for the Note5 is quite underwhelming, and hey, I get it, it's a tough device to develop for. I've seen some really cool things come from these forums. And a lot of users that are passionate about getting the max out of their devices.
But the last few months I've seen two of the major kernel developers drop out from the game. One, well he doesn't even have a device on hand. But the other one, a very passionate developer left because of supposedly problems with the moderators. And if it is because of moderators that are pushing developers away from an admittedly small community, then I feel the community should at least deserve some answers to why developers are leaving the note5 over the moderators. And, if possible, how to resolve these problems. The note5 isn't even a year old and yet support is already dwindling. Developers get bored and quit. That's fine. But when people who are given control to moderate these threads are the ones pushing them away, we should get answers.
That's pretty much my rant. Feel free to chime in if you agree or disagree.
abde27 said:
So I've been frequenting these forums for years now. And specifically the Note5 forums ever since I got an n920i. Coming from a OnePlus One, the development for the Note5 is quite underwhelming, and hey, I get it, it's a tough device to develop for. I've seen some really cool things come from these forums. And a lot of users that are passionate about getting the max out of their devices.
But the last few months I've seen two of the major kernel developers drop out from the game. One, well he doesn't even have a device on hand. But the other one, a very passionate developer left because of supposedly problems with the moderators. And if it is because of moderators that are pushing developers away from an admittedly small community, then I feel the community should at least deserve some answers to why developers are leaving the note5 over the moderators. And, if possible, how to resolve these problems. The note5 isn't even a year old and yet support is already dwindling. Developers get bored and quit. That's fine. But when people who are given control to moderate these threads are the ones pushing them away, we should get answers.
That's pretty much my rant. Feel free to chime in if you agree or disagree.
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I agree with you. If you frequent the forums. You can piece it together when you read bits in different forums. There's still some rom makers and cm13 is being cooked. But unless something changes I reckon in that next 3-4 months. Note 5 is going to become a waste land. Or *young devs* will remain. Nothing wrong with them but.. You know what I mean. Compared to devs that have always done this kind of thing. So I think it's going to dwindle slowly. And then just fade off. Specially when the note 6/other devices hit. Game over...... That's my bet
I totally agree, the issue is there are just so many variants for Samsung devices now its hard for the developers to keep up with every device. Back when I had the Note 3 there were only two variants whereas now there are more than 5 variants for the Note 5.
Even the amount of actual devices there are, there are just too many Samsung are releasing. Back in 2013 there were only 'flagship' devices being developed for as they were the only ones worth developing for, but now there are low-mid range devices that can have a lot of development potential.
If its going to be poor development like this for the Note 5 in the near future or even possibly the Note 6 I might just buy the next Nexus device. I had only bought the Note 5 as I had the Note 4,3 and 2 and the Note line-up was always more powerful than the regular flagship devices.
I've seen and heard complaints about the moderation teams, and I've seen many, many developers come and go on these forums. What most of you do not see is the reason that some of these "developers" leave badmouthing the moderators.
We have a very lenient set of rules here, yet many people feel the need to try to push the boundaries of them, some much more than others.
We have had "developers" leave because they got busted stealing others work, because they got busted trying to make money off of the users here, busted for trying to get users to buy them devices, computers, etc...
We've had our fair share of those who let the "fame" go to their heads and began believing they were above the rules.
And finally, what you don't see, is that we try to work with these people, for the community's sake, to correct the problems, long before they are reprimanded for their actions. In the end it comes down to these people not getting their way, so they take their ball and go home, all the while complaining about the big, bad moderators.
You can choose to believe what you wish, but believe me when I tell you that development is dying because the type of developers that you're seeing more and more of, truly don't care about the community unless you line their pockets or subjugate yourselves to their abuse.
Why do you not see a great majority of the above in the forums? We moderators clean it up so that the community thrives, because really, who wants to support a developer that belittles, berates and humiliates his supporters? Ask him that on whatever social media he's taken up to complain about how he was treated here...
Thank you. I am personally not against moderators. They save threads again and again when things get out of hand. Without moderators, XDA might not be here still.
All I'm asking for is some transparency. To see if a developer left because of moderators or because they themselves broke rules, or whatever the reason is. A device with a lot of development behind it doesn't need that type of transparency because if someone leaves, it doesn't hurt the overall community if there are others working on it. But in a small community like this, it's harder to swallow. If a developer leaves claiming that the moderation team forced them away then maybe the moderation team should give their side of the story so the community knows what's going on, and if there are people interested in developing for the device that they have a frame of reference of knowing what is acceptable here and what isn't.
I hope that makes sense. And I know being transparent isn't the easiest thing to do. But if people are seeing that moderators are being blamed when developers leave and moderators staying quiet, then what kind of message does that send?
There's a clear line between acceptable transparency and airing out other people's dirty laundry in a publicly visible space. It's easy to ask for transparency when someone else is at fault, but imagine being on the other side--transparency might not be the word you'd use to describe it. As far as what's acceptable and what's not, the forum rules are sufficiently clear. Stay within the bounds of that document and you'll have no trouble from the mods. Our goal is to make this a developer-friendly environment that encourages everyone to contribute.
I agree that there is a difference but we are looking at a device that is losing devs by the minute. I do not want to start a political revolution here, or change rules. I do not expect development for the Note5. I would like to see development, but I'm not expecting it. It's very heartbreaking seeing that this forum is mysteriously losing developers for a device not even a year old.
If anything, lets work together to create a place for development to flourish, just like the rules ask us to.
yeah seems like all the big devs are leaving and we left with roms updated from December. All threads are closed without any explanation. Kinda sad since the note 5 really needs more devs to develop. great device but if there's no support from devs. i will stay away from samsung for a while.
The biggest question of me till now is Why @UpInTheAir left the community?
Lam pham said:
Why @UpInTheAir left the community?
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I read his post where he explain something about problems with moderator(s) and I saw a strange phrase something like "developers need help from moderators" or something similar to it, but I don't understand WHAT help a moderator could give to the Dev.
More over I don't understand why a Dev could think to leave a community due to problems with moderator(s)....Moderators manage rules and I don't figure out how this could touch/ruins Dev's work.
All of this is strange for me.
At the end of the day, every closed thread here is closed because there was an issue revolving around kanging of people's work- that's where it STARTS...from there mods are forced to step in, and it's at this stage that SOMEONE will always feel they were done wrong- either thru uneducated assumptions on things like the GPL or apache licenses and what is or is not acceptable to document "credit given" and "permission" to maintain compliance with these licenses- or it's knowingly stolen...the mods start taking heat when they moderate with their emotions not their duty, take it from a guy just again logging in again after a ban issued in anger...only to find a ghost town...believe me when i say you'll never get transparency. I just read a mod basically call out uita in "whatever social circle he's in" and very tastelessly degrade him when he can't defend himself- at the end of the day this is the mod's sandbox- i can't even count now how many times I've seen MY statement repeated (take their ball and go home) by multiple mods who obviously read MY feelings on it all- but again, it's your sandbox boys...I've been told half a dozen times now that this is a private site, the mods don't owe us anything for explanations, nor will we get them (at least not truthful ones because no one will admit fault), and that none of this was even acceptable to discuss, not would it be, in public. my response was simply that public outcry would need to be answered eventually and here it is, inevitably, as i predicted. I stood for what i believed to be right, i got banned. Every mod told me i was wrong to even voice an opinion, and how dare that opinion contrast, it was against the rules, if i didn't agree then kick rocks and this 2 week ban will give me time to reflect. Well, that's the same attitude that pushed away a few devs, and even tekhd, apparently, cuz i come back and tekhd, evren, drketan, all have locked threads and are currently ceased development on xda...
Devs will come and go, that's the nature of the beast, but the Note 5 forums you currently see are the results of something else. I've always considered myself to be a rational person very open to hearing out another's side, but all i got was banned and told it ain't a democracy, shut up or get out and stay out. That was my honest experience. Fwiw...
Lam pham said:
The biggest question of me till now is Why @UpInTheAir left the community?
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You haven't know what's secret behind the scenes, so don't ask for the reason....you will never get the answer....
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
haifish9999 said:
You haven't know what's secret behind the scenes, so don't ask for the reason....you will never get the answer....
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
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I hope it's not a case of " Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad". (As in Animal Farm story)
Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk
Well, just to be perfectly "transparent", i don't even rightfully know how long my original ban was, but i DID just make another account and get an extra, oh i dunno week or something....does that make my bucket of lies an accurate account, @KennyG123 ?
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
The winter is coming .....
I've been banned myself for well over 3 weeks and I stopped the work I was doing for another phone. The mod thought it was ok to keep deleting my messages and close my thread so I can't say that all the mods are perfect and do the right thing.. Seems more like moderating from emotion or stress... I can understand why he left the community and for those that don't know that doing any type of dev work usually takes hours upon hours, weeks even months just to get something made perfectly and then a moderator bans him and basically made him feel worthless with all the time spent working on stuff.. You'd be mad too if this was done to yourself!!
Rx8Driver said:
Well, just to be perfectly "transparent", i don't even rightfully know how long my original ban was, but i DID just make another account and get an extra, oh i dunno week or something....does that make my bucket of lies an accurate account, @KennyG123 ?
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
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If you want your dirty laundry aired and not the pack of lies about "poor me voicing my opinion" I will be happy to post all your transgressions publicly with your permission. You are just like everyone else that received a short ban, then continued to break rules...it is always the evil moderators. And to add to your character, you just lied about the other account in the PM you sent me and now here you admit to it...so why should anyone believe anything you say? Not trying to argue, but it gets tiresome seeing people post these "Poor me" posts and the "evil moderators" stuff. You don't think it hurts us to see that? We are volunteers just trying to give back to the forums we love so much. We try to keep the drama down because drama is NOT development. But people like to assume things..and usually they are wrong.
As for the rest of the ridiculous comments in this thread...why...why on a development website would ANY moderator chase away a developer? Why...why would the owners allow that? Think about it! We do everything we can to help and work things out with developers...maybe you heard of something we have here...called Private Messaging!!!! Not to mention we have a very lenient system of dealing with rule breaking....people and especially developers get a whole lot of chances before even their first very short ban...then there are several of those before they work themselves into a permanent ban.
The problem is when these developers start demanding that moderators break the rules, or copyright, or licensing agreements just for them. Then they go berserk when moderators don't bend over backwards against licensing just for them, the oh so mighty developers! And somehow you want to blame moderators for their actions, ego and demands. Formats of this site are constantly changing for developers...they get free hosting on DevDB, can set their thread preferences on DevDB. Special Q&A threads were set up for developers so they can concentrate on development in their threads. Developer ONLY forums were created for them to work. I can list dozens of more things done just for developers but none of that matters obviously...only that your developer decided to leave over GPL. No, instead you think out of the 30,000 developers on this site, that the 50 moderators banded together to run off one guy....ludicrous!
KennyG123 said:
If you want your dirty laundry aired and not the pack of lies about "poor me voicing my opinion" I will be happy to post all your transgressions publicly with your permission. You are just like everyone else that received a short ban, then continued to break rules...it is always the evil moderators.
As for the rest of the ridiculous comments in this thread...why...why on a development website would ANY moderator chase away a developer? Why...why would the owners allow that? Think about it! We do everything we can to help and work things out with developers...maybe you heard of something we have here...called Private Messaging!!!! Not to mention we have a very lenient system of dealing with rule breaking....people and especially developers get a whole lot of chances before even their first very short ban...then there are several of those before they work themselves into a permanent ban.
The problem is when these developers start demanding that moderators break the rules, or copyright, or licensing agreements just for them. Then they go berserk when moderators don't bend over backwards against licensing just for them, the oh so mighty developers! And somehow you want to blame moderators for their actions, ego and demands. Formats of this site are constantly changing for developers...they get free hosting on DevDB, can set their thread preferences on DevDB. Special Q&A threads were set up for developers so they can concentrate on development in their threads. Developer ONLY forums were created for them to work. I can list dozens of more things done just for developers but none of that matters obviously...only that your developer decided to leave over GPL. No, instead you think out of the 30,000 developers on this site, that the 50 moderators banded together to run off one guy....ludicrous!
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I don't have any dirty laundry to hide...feel free to Pat anything you got with my name on it, but don't fabricate stuff, and sure you've my permission. And I'm NOT just like everyone else, another short sighted statement since you don't even know me. Also, pm is pm, but the OP asked for the moderators side of the story with all this, yet that wasn't addressed nor was anything other than my acting like a 2yr old....again an unwarranted insult, and another PM attempt to draw me into an argument. Air whatever you like, but know i can and will do the same.
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
Rx8Driver said:
I don't have any dirty laundry to hide...feel free to Pat anything you got with my name on it, but don't fabricate stuff, and sure you've my permission. And I'm NOT just like everyone else, another short sighted statement since you don't even know me. Also, pm is pm, but the OP asked for the moderators side of the story with all this, yet that wasn't addressed nor was anything other than my acting like a 2yr old....again an unwarranted insult, and another PM attempt to draw me into an argument. Air whatever you like, but know i can and will do the same.
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
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Hi, feel free. Thanks for openly admitting you violated forum rules after the long post stating you were banned for 2 weeks for voicing your opinion. But at least you admitted it finally. I guess your statement that PM is PM, somehow means it is ok to lie to moderators then post how you got wronged..whatever.
As for everyone else in this thread concerned about reality and development...moderators want nothing but more development. We do not run off developers. And as stated we actually invest a lot of our volunteer time in PMs trying to work things out with developers. I have lots of developers that I talked out of leaving and they come to me with their issues...sometimes we can help them...sometimes we can't. In UITA's case. we couldn't because GPL rules over XDA rules. All kernel developers should know this when pulling code from any git. I have had many good conversations with UITA and he came to me often with issues. This time he came to me and asked about the ruling for kernels. I explained it to him and not even sure if he ever read it because he exploded at about the same time. I hope he takes this time to refresh and recharge and considers coming back after his "vacation." But that is up to him. I am here to work with him when he is ready to let him know the boundaries...the same boundaries that every one of the hundreds of kernel developers on XDA deal with.
The best thing to do might be to encourage UITA in PM to relax and work within the system and do what he does best. I can help him to ensure his credits are properly preserved in his commits and in threads. All he has to do is ask.
I will also add, YES i did in fact create an extra account. Plainly and openly...and it's here nor there because the root of the issue wasn't accounts...it was my opinion...creating an account to circumvent a ban is petty...at least when the ban is originally due to a difference of opinion and instead of working thru it whoever actually banned me decided to do that...
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 05:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ----------
If there's some other dirty laundry i got around here other than testing for devs and working on synapse profiles, and feedback on roms, and helping noobs find their way I'd love to see it...
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---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 PM ----------
KennyG123 said:
If you want your dirty laundry aired and not the pack of lies about "poor me voicing my opinion" I will be happy to post all your transgressions publicly with your permission. You are just like everyone else that received a short ban, then continued to break rules...it is always the evil moderators. And to add to your character, you just lied about the other account in the PM you sent me and now here you admit to it...so why should anyone believe anything you say? Not trying to argue, but it gets tiresome seeing people post these "Poor me" posts and the "evil moderators" stuff. You don't think it hurts us to see that? We are volunteers just trying to give back to the forums we love so much. We try to keep the drama down because drama is NOT development. But people like to assume things..and usually they are wrong.
As for the rest of the ridiculous comments in this thread...why...why on a development website would ANY moderator chase away a developer? Why...why would the owners allow that? Think about it! We do everything we can to help and work things out with developers...maybe you heard of something we have here...called Private Messaging!!!! Not to mention we have a very lenient system of dealing with rule breaking....people and especially developers get a whole lot of chances before even their first very short ban...then there are several of those before they work themselves into a permanent ban.
The problem is when these developers start demanding that moderators break the rules, or copyright, or licensing agreements just for them. Then they go berserk when moderators don't bend over backwards against licensing just for them, the oh so mighty developers! And somehow you want to blame moderators for their actions, ego and demands. Formats of this site are constantly changing for developers...they get free hosting on DevDB, can set their thread preferences on DevDB. Special Q&A threads were set up for developers so they can concentrate on development in their threads. Developer ONLY forums were created for them to work. I can list dozens of more things done just for developers but none of that matters obviously...only that your developer decided to leave over GPL. No, instead you think out of the 30,000 developers on this site, that the 50 moderators banded together to run off one guy....ludicrous!
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And whoa whoa whoa...i never denied making that account. It's DroidPro35....i NEVER denied that, pm or not.
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---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------
Lastly, and I'm finished with it is i have every pm between myself and bajanman and between myself and JJD...I'll gladly post them all, i was angrier two weeks ago, but there's nothing in any of them leading up to my ban that wasn't plain and simple language describing what's been transgressing here...and say what you will about uita, yeah he's got a reputation for being harsh, but over the past few months he'd come a long way from when he and i first "met"...I'd say, for him, publicly at least he'd been on his best behavior and even gentle on the noobs and all...
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---------- Post added at 10:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 PM ----------
Rx8Driver said:
Well, just to be perfectly "transparent", i don't even rightfully know how long my original ban was, but i DID just make another account and get an extra, oh i dunno week or something....does that make my bucket of lies an accurate account, @KennyG123 ?
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Did you mean here? Cuz i said DID....like not DIDNT...so like i did...and who cares if i admit it? The ban for that is already over...time served and all that...