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Sorry for sounding so ...angry..but this phone just cost me not only 800 bucks..but 1700 dollars round trip to the place i got it from...so please understand my point of view
Ok so since no one answered my question and my problem with my phone (phone died 5 mins after using it) Please answer me this:
Why should I even think about keeping my htc diamond (thats ofcourse if i decide to replace my current dead one)?
I have a feeling that this phone is so bugged, it should be cheaper, should have some kind of customer support, and should be in a reasonable working condition when you open up the box of this epensive phone and be able to do w/e it is advertises to do.
none of these pointers even come close to the HTC Diamond. It is expensive, Tech support is just halarious (a month to !!REPAIR!! my phone and then the return ground trip- I cant even replace it) and even then, your warranty is not 100% guarenteed, and last but not least, It does not work 100% when you open it up and get ready to use it
I bet if i buy a 350 dollars phone (lets say the LG rumer) id have a better experiance, without touch screen (omg its the endz of ze w0rldz!!!).
I understand what this phone is, or at least have an idea of what it's capable(at least I think, BECAUSE I ONLY USED IT FOR 5 MINS!!), but looking at this phone's forum section, quite a few ppl are having 1 or more issues with this phone.
Am I better off returning this piece of junk and getting something similar for cheaper? (iphone 3G i can grab it from a duty free airport for around 750 USD). Or a blackbarry bold, or the samsung touchscreen one..
seriously When I called HTC, they not only treated me like garbage, the rep sounded happy as if he has just ripped me off with a crappy phone and tried dhis best not to have me try to rma my phone ( and he succeeded, Im returning to the airport i bought this junk from and replacing it/ buying another brand)
But if I am missing something, then please tell me, what makes this phone so special ?
BTW I live in NA, so the freaking 3G for this phone, as u all know doesnt work ---> Another feature right out the ****ing window.
if you dont like it take it back. end of story. if you dont love it, you dont deserve it. buy an iphone, nothing ever goes wrong with those.
yeah i agree go buy an iphone.
it sounds as though it would suit you better
as its made for people like you.
i thought, i hoped that we got past the "whining" period. i was wrong.
in the first 2 month after diamond was out the forum was full with this kind of useless threads. this thread if not killed by a moderator is going to become a chat room where some ppl (mostly noobs) are going to add their frustration, some ppl are going to flame you (the "crazy about diamond" ones), some are going to send you to flash and tweak it (it seems that you don't like the idea) and some are going to plain and simple send you to give it back and end the drama.
in short if u are expecting 20 replays trying to convince you to keep it, you are wrong.
lol what a post.
A user-forum moderats itself to a high degree. If there are many people with same problems you'll find so called whining threads more often, if not the corrosponding thread will vanish quickly.
It's more or less normal to find many threads about different problems with a new and well sold device but its a a warning sign to find problem-threads with lots of people in there, reporting the same issue.
If one call it noobish to complain about problems with customer-service or getting the device to work fluidly out of the box, he does manufacturers like htc a realy big favour, perhaps for some people a reason to be proud of.
GPS-lag, sound-lag, enexpected resets, speed-issues with and without TF3D, way to less volume of internal speaker, bad border responsivity of touch-screen, bad umts signal strength, peeling off of screen, peeling off of button area, all this are all but not single-user issues, most of the are my issues too.
I've never came across before a PDA-device with so many major design-flaws like the diamond. If someone says "you have to understand htc, it's impossible to create a perfect device" or "stop whining the diamond is a well done device", I'm wondering whats the planet, he's living on. Perhaps he won it on a tombola so he has no reason to complain because he has not spend any money on it.
One of the main-reasons for me, to buy a new PDA was internal GPS. Cause of the lag, it is more or less useless for me. I like to hear mp3's with my PDA, again its quite useless because of another lag with the sound-output. I like it to take handwritten notes with my PDA - but its to laggy on the diamond, so I can forgett about it.
Perhaps htc should make clear that this phone is only for tolerant experts, like the guys in this forum who are calling people noob, cause they only want to use their device.
Keeping Diamond is not obligatory, if you don't like this phone, simply give it back and buy something you like. It's simple as that.
or perhaps they call them noobs because they seem to be incapable
of sorting out the few problems with stuff off here like the rest of us have.
this is a developers website not a site for those who just see it as a
pretty phone.
let the flame war BEGIN...
Hey, some people just have bad luck with these things, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
There are plenty of people who were on the fence about the first iPhone, and after seeing its success decided to take the plunge with the iPhone 3G (seeing that Apple finally added GPS and 3G). And lots of people have had nothing but problems with the iPhone 3G from day one. Poor or nonexistent 3G reception, laggy or inaccurate GPS, Safari crashing frequently, 8-hour long backups, major problems with iTunes and the App Store (which Apple keeps on a short leash), and the whole debacle with MobileMe.
And people will just as quickly step in and excuse Apple for any criticisms of the iPhone. So it happens to everyone -- these devices aren't the holy grail, there's always going to be imperfections one way or another. If you were unfortunate enough to experience a great deal of problems then probably nothing can change your mind. But there's nothing that says you won't have bad luck on any other device.
I guess the point is that most users here hold no illusions that somewhere, some large sum of money can buy a device "that just works"; there really is no device that's that capable. But that's the whole reason why this forum is here. If you have a problem, someone can help. If you have a lot of problems... well, there's a lot of people here.
Blazeitup123 said:
let the flame war BEGIN...
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sometimes i surprise myself....i am waiting another day or two and then i'll have to say it: i told you so!
Token42 said:
A user-forum moderats itself to a high degree. If there are many people with same problems you'll find so called whining threads more often, if not the corrosponding thread will vanish quickly.
It's more or less normal to find many threads about different problems with a new and well sold device but its a a warning sign to find problem-threads with lots of people in there, reporting the same issue.
If one call it noobish to complain about problems with customer-service or getting the device to work fluidly out of the box, he does manufacturers like htc a realy big favour, perhaps for some people a reason to be proud of.
GPS-lag, sound-lag, enexpected resets, speed-issues with and without TF3D, way to less volume of internal speaker, bad border responsivity of touch-screen, bad umts signal strength, peeling off of screen, peeling off of button area, all this are all but not single-user issues, most of the are my issues too.
I've never came across before a PDA-device with so many major design-flaws like the diamond. If someone says "you have to understand htc, it's impossible to create a perfect device" or "stop whining the diamond is a well done device", I'm wondering whats the planet, he's living on. Perhaps he won it on a tombola so he has no reason to complain because he has not spend any money on it.
One of the main-reasons for me, to buy a new PDA was internal GPS. Cause of the lag, it is more or less useless for me. I like to hear mp3's with my PDA, again its quite useless because of another lag with the sound-output. I like it to take handwritten notes with my PDA - but its to laggy on the diamond, so I can forgett about it.
Perhaps htc should make clear that this phone is only for tolerant experts, like the guys in this forum who are calling people noob, cause they only want to use their device.
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Click to collapse
from cambridge dictionary
whiner
noun [C] DISAPPROVING
a person, especially a child, who complains or expresses dissatisfaction continually
didn't call anybody whiner on my post (whining period).
didn't call the thread opener a noob.
1. i never said diamond is perfect but this is not the place to complain about the quality of diamond. htc diamond is a htc product. whine/complain to the htc. this is a developers forum, here you'll find ppl that are continuously improving the device. what's the point of such a thread here? what's the point? we all know too well the flows of the diamond.
2. looking at my sig you can see a partial list of the devices i own. none of them was so challenging like the diamond and in my eyes that's the beauty of it.
3. because i bought one of the first diamond arrived i paid 5000 NIS/3.5=1428$! not cheap. i also wanted to return the diamond but this was in the first days of diamond. there were no cooked ROMs and no smart tweaks and advanced configurations.... i also was a noob.. i search, i asked, i got flamed, i experimented and i can say that today i have N O N E of the problems you described. only yesterday i tried 4 new ROMs. today i am settled for at least one month with swiftbl's latest. no lag on GPS, no lag on scrolling, listening some trance with the a2dp without lag or skips (using coreplayer). didn't like the htc player so f...k. it, i bought the coreplayer.
4. sometimes i think that diamond is not a device, diamond is a kit, a "do it by yourself" gadget. don't buy it if you don't have time to assembly it.
stop complaining h e r e ! not satisfied? do something! complain to htc (not here) or return the device or invest some precious time to transform yr expensive toy from the legendary frog to the handsome prince. and no, kissing it is not enough!
I've nothing useful to add to this thread except to express my amazement that anyone would pay so much money for this device!
Mine was free on a contract that will end up costing me about the same amount over 18 months but that includes 400 talk minutes and unlimited texts. Also, I went into it with my eyes open - I knew it was not going to be as friendly or reliable as a Nokia.
If you're going to travel long distances to buy an expensive product, do some research first!
Davey101 said:
I've nothing useful to add to this thread except to express my amazement that anyone would pay so much money for this device!
Mine was free on a contract that will end up costing me about the same amount over 18 months but that includes 400 talk minutes and unlimited texts. Also, I went into it with my eyes open - I knew it was not going to be as friendly or reliable as a Nokia.
If you're going to travel long distances to buy an expensive product, do some research first!
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Click to collapse
after years with this forum in my i-mate, trinity and athena period i'll buy a brick if i'll be sure that xda-dev is supporting it
Of course this is a developer-forum, not intended for exchanging critics on a device, without wanting or excepting to solve the criticized problems. But sometimes it goes off-topic, someone complains and a so called flamewar is created. But even a flamewar is nothing else but a discussion in a discussion-forum. I see no problem in this behavour of forums.
I think responsible people on the manufacturer-side are aware of common problems, discussed in forums like this. Because they are owning such a device by their selfs, or they are interested in, because it's their job. So perhaps critizising really anoying issues can't be done to an extend, high enough.
It's true - devices like PDA's can't be perfect, they are too complicated. But even a mixer is too complicated to be perfect.
When I buy a mixer and it's somewhat too loud or a little weak, I can say: "Hey its not what I'm expected, but it's OK for the money." But when I have to switch the mixer on 3 minutes before I want to use it, cause it has a power-on lag, or if it allways looses the mixing attachment I say its bull****.
When I buy a top-class PDA promoted for GPS, PIM and MP3 and I can do nothing of it without big problems, I think also it's bull****.
OK - one could say "Its not a problem for all, it's only 50% with GPS-lag" - hey that makes me much more enthusastic to try other htc-products.
As someone allready suggested, I can simply buy another pda - yes I can can and will, but thats a reason not to complain about a product I've bought?
fhsieh said:
Hey, some people just have bad luck with these things, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
There are plenty of people who were on the fence about the first iPhone, and after seeing its success decided to take the plunge with the iPhone 3G (seeing that Apple finally added GPS and 3G). And lots of people have had nothing but problems with the iPhone 3G from day one. Poor or nonexistent 3G reception, laggy or inaccurate GPS, Safari crashing frequently, 8-hour long backups, major problems with iTunes and the App Store (which Apple keeps on a short leash), and the whole debacle with MobileMe.
And people will just as quickly step in and excuse Apple for any criticisms of the iPhone. So it happens to everyone -- these devices aren't the holy grail, there's always going to be imperfections one way or another. If you were unfortunate enough to experience a great deal of problems then probably nothing can change your mind. But there's nothing that says you won't have bad luck on any other device.
I guess the point is that most users here hold no illusions that somewhere, some large sum of money can buy a device "that just works"; there really is no device that's that capable. But that's the whole reason why this forum is here. If you have a problem, someone can help. If you have a lot of problems... well, there's a lot of people here.
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Click to collapse
1st rule before you buy something
do your homework
you only have yourself to blame if you find out its not for you after you have spent all that money....DOH!
P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.
liamhere said:
do your homework
you only have yourself to blame if you find out its not for you after you have spent all that money....DOH!
P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.
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Of course my mistake, not HTC's. Seems you're really clever. I think I proceed to blame myself and you can proceed to blame others.
Token42 said:
Of course my mistake, not HTC's. Seems you're really clever. I think I proceed to blame myself and you can proceed to blame others.
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just for the record,
my comment was for the thread starter and not aimed at you.
note to self....must use quote more
KukurikU said:
after years with this forum in my i-mate, trinity and athena period i'll buy a brick if i'll be sure that xda-dev is supporting it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+.
Couldn't put it in a better way!
Coming back to the actual Diamond "problems" mentioned:
Even with the first couple of original HTC roms, I never experienced any GPS lag, mp3 lag etc etc. Only the start-up lag is rather annoying, but hey... how fast does your Windows Vista PC boot up?
Please try to compare Diamond's GPS next to an N95, and post the results on accuracy and lag (I have done so!).
Finally, I would agree with "liamhere"'s statement of "P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.", but I would like to add:
Make sure it's NOT an N series... and don't buy it (actually never buy ANYTHING expensive)from somewhere so far away, unless is online, so FedEx, DHL or whoever, can come to the rescue
liamhere said:
just for the record,
my comment was for the thread starter and not aimed at you.
note to self....must use quote more
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Click to collapse
Sorry, got this wrong.
If most people are happy with their diamond and doesn't encounter any of the known problems its fine and nice. Personaly I really start to get a little bit angry about myself, to have spent so much money for it.
I've bought this device not for the phone-functionality but as a pda and this was a bad bad decission. Not only because of flaws I was not aware of when I've bought it but because of limitations I knew of. I was only to impatient to wait for other models and do enough research.
I don't think HTC will spent many resources on bugfixing for example the gps-lag, cause their are so many phones of them in development and they have allready made their deal with the diamond.
So I return to my beloved Loox and use the diamond really only as a phone, better than nothing.
I'm looking for the one (or better more than 1) app that will kick all the surrounding iphone addicts and will get them to see that the kaiser is not failing even with graphics and interface. I think that a game that takes the graphics to the the limit will do the job - any suggestions?
You don't need any software to do that; it already does.
iPhone users can't figure out how to use these types of phones, you need to be intelligent too, and, well, Apple users really aren't that intelligent...
The Iphone is sooo cute.......It's amazing how impressed people get with what are nothing but a bunch of shortcuts on the phone, You can't do everything you can on WM
If you are looking to get justification from me (or someone else) about the $$ you spent on the kaiser (vs. iphone), then you obviously missed the point.
p.s. you probably should have just asked what the best software was--instead of "why is my 1 year old phone better than the iphone"
p.p.s. maybe you should have bought an iphone. you might be one of the people Squeaky369 was talking about.
...of course, it sounds like he's trying to justify the kaiser also.
Here's my $0.02:
I used to only own sony ericsson phones. until I bought an Audiovox SMT5600. cool phone, but it just needed a "insert newest feature here," to be perfect. Then the next HTC phone came out, and, viola! I bought that one. fast forward through 6 HTC phones in as ~4 years.
I like them because they have great support by the folks here at xda-developers. THAT's enough for me. Customer support, only provided by people who actually care, the customer.
to sum it all up, the kaiser is only a good phone because of this website.
Squeaky369 said:
You don't need any software to do that; it already does.
iPhone users can't figure out how to use these types of phones, you need to be intelligent too, and, well, Apple users really aren't that intelligent...
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Well, that's the the hardest point: make the non intelligent understand that they are such.
pingels said:
If you are looking to get justification from me (or someone else) about the $$ you spent on the kaiser (vs. iphone), then you obviously missed the point.
p.s. you probably should have just asked what the best software was--instead of "why is my 1 year old phone better than the iphone"
p.p.s. maybe you should have bought an iphone. you might be one of the people Squeaky369 was talking about.
...of course, it sounds like he's trying to justify the kaiser also.
Here's my $0.02:
I used to only own sony ericsson phones. until I bought an Audiovox SMT5600. cool phone, but it just needed a "insert newest feature here," to be perfect. Then the next HTC phone came out, and, viola! I bought that one. fast forward through 6 HTC phones in as ~4 years.
I like them because they have great support by the folks here at xda-developers. THAT's enough for me. Customer support, only provided by people who actually care, the customer.
to sum it all up, the kaiser is only a good phone because of this website.
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Click to collapse
You totally missed me: If I could get iphone for $100 less than what i have payed for my kaiser (and maybe I could - i just didnt look for) I would never got an apple,
I am more than proud to have my kaiser and I bought it after reading this website for long time and understanding that powerful machine with power web support is what I need. for me the apple is like a toy for spoiled users, but I do find myself many times trying to justify my choice.
udi1 said:
I'm looking for the one (or better more than 1) app that will kick all the surrounding iphone addicts and will get them to see that the kaiser is not failing even with graphics and interface. I think that a game that takes the graphics to the the limit will do the job - any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anywho, Skyfire. Nuff said. Load it up enabled HSDPA on your phone and head to anysite playing video. I watched that new Chris Rock special on my phone today at work, had the entire crew laughing.
when sanchez get his program out, then you can show them your phone can do everything the iphone does. just showing how customizable it is should do the trick
c'mon man...you already got them with copy and paste!
udi1 said:
I'm looking for the one (or better more than 1) app that will kick all the surrounding iphone addicts and will get them to see that the kaiser is not failing even with graphics and interface. I think that a game that takes the graphics to the the limit will do the job - any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude, you don't need any special application. just copy and paste and they'll run off crying like little girls
Just show them a cursory list of WM apps/games available for the TyTN II and that'll scare them sh*tless!!!! Nevermind the Java stuff too.
Just show them how customisable the TyTN II is also,
and and and and and...the list is almost endles!!!
I have a thread here somewhere where I had a device shoot-out with a colleague a few months back. He has (had now hehehehehe) an Apple iPhoney and I have my TyTN II....he ran for the hills dude!!!!!!!!
Show them Manila 2D
I wowed an iPhone user when I showed them my tilt with M2D running. What's up with youtube on iPhone looking like crap? LOL
kaiser VS. iphone
hey.
no dought. iphone is like a simple video game, and kaiser is like a small computer with all the posebilities-just think of one...
in every compresion i read, the kaiser took the iphone by far.
be proud to have a kaiser. a fantastic machine indeed. let the childrens play with their iphones
Are you expecting somebody to say "there was a guy with an iphone, and i pulled out my kaiser and showed him my latest program. his girlfriend left him for me and gave me a lot of money. then i asked him about copying and pasting and he grabbed his groin because my metaphorical kick actually caused him pain."
Funny, cbass.
No, but there is a joy to all of this. It's not about who's swinging the bigger stick. It's just that some iPhone owners are so ridiculous about their phones (while most of the iPhone owners I know already have either broken the screen or just traded them in.)
A buddy of mine lives 3000 miles away. I called him up to let him know I was visiting. Knowing he's a gadget geek, I asked if he had the new 3G iPhone. He did. He asked if I had it. I said "No, I bought the Tilt." He laughed and told me about three coworkers who bought Tilts and hated them. How ugly the screens were. How impractical. I kept my mouth shut knowing I had just put TouchFlo 2d on the Tilt and wanted to wait for him to see it in person. Now I have a buddy who is pissed he bought an iPhone.
P.S. I don't know where you guys bought your Kaisers. I bought mine from AT&T (refurbished, not that you could tell) for $150.
A horse that had just purchased an iPhone walked into a bar...bartender asked, "Why the long face?"
Thank you, thank you...
Just go to an iPhone owner, put your tilt up to their face, and ask, "Can your fancy phone DO THIS!!!" as you slide out the keyboard to the transformers sound they will have no other choice but to rip their garment apart and gnash their teeth in repentance...
This is the funniest thread ever!
deymayor said:
This is the funniest thread ever!
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iphone killer thread... should be stickied!!
No offense, but there is no comparison
I'm not saying iPhone is better, but that there really is no comparison.
The point of the iPhone is to be slick, simple, and easy to use. According to the vast user community, it meets those objectives. My VP buddy has the iPhone and so do most of the execs at our company now. The reason they like it is that it just "does what they want", and nothing more.
I tell the 1st buddy I mentioned about all the cool things my phone does, and he says "I don't need that". End of argument. I ask if this or that on the iPhone is configurable. He doesn't want to configure it.
When asked about the user interface, he says "They nailed it", meaning it is perfect. He doesn't need a slide-out keyboard, because the on-screen keyboard works just fine for him. No... He probably can't type as fast as I can on the Tilt, but he says "I don't need to type fast".
So there it is: The iPhone community (and it is growing) are guys that are not stupid.. their world just does not revolve around their phone as ours does. It isn't a toy to make better -- it is a tool.
An iPhone killer is a stripped down, simple, rudimentary version of the software I have now. It is so stripped down that it probably works a bit more reliably and a bit more spritely in responding to commands. It also has one more feature -- consistency of user interface. It can't "dump to the same old e-mail interface" when you just came off the slick screen. It still has to zoom and flip and do all that. iFonz was close, but the version I used wasn't very fast on the Kaiser. And to me (I'm one of you -- make no mistake) it didn't do all I wanted! (so I have to disqualify myself on that point... )
Someone should make that slick simple phone -- oh, they do --- but we wouldn't like it...
So it is about market. In my opinion, Apple knows how to mass market to people -- not engineers -- and HTC and MS know how to market to engineers. Unfortunately, people outnumber engineers by a considerable margin.
esnyder58 said:
I'm not saying iPhone is better, but that there really is no comparison.
The point of the iPhone is to be slick, simple, and easy to use. According to the vast user community, it meets those objectives. My VP buddy has the iPhone and so do most of the execs at our company now. The reason they like it is that it just "does what they want", and nothing more.
I tell the 1st buddy I mentioned about all the cool things my phone does, and he says "I don't need that". End of argument. I ask if this or that on the iPhone is configurable. He doesn't want to configure it.
When asked about the user interface, he says "They nailed it", meaning it is perfect. He doesn't need a slide-out keyboard, because the on-screen keyboard works just fine for him. No... He probably can't type as fast as I can on the Tilt, but he says "I don't need to type fast".
So there it is: The iPhone community (and it is growing) are guys that are not stupid.. their world just does not revolve around their phone as ours does. It isn't a toy to make better -- it is a tool.
An iPhone killer is a stripped down, simple, rudimentary version of the software I have now. It is so stripped down that it probably works a bit more reliably and a bit more spritely in responding to commands. It also has one more feature -- consistency of user interface. It can't "dump to the same old e-mail interface" when you just came off the slick screen. It still has to zoom and flip and do all that. iFonz was close, but the version I used wasn't very fast on the Kaiser. And to me (I'm one of you -- make no mistake) it didn't do all I wanted! (so I have to disqualify myself on that point... )
Someone should make that slick simple phone -- oh, they do --- but we wouldn't like it...
So it is about market. In my opinion, Apple knows how to mass market to people -- not engineers -- and HTC and MS know how to market to engineers. Unfortunately, people outnumber engineers by a considerable margin.
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Actually alot of them do revolve around there phones..... they are materialistic about it alot of times. if apple can put their name on it they will buy it.
I would have to say it is a opinion though. just over a year ago people were amazed when i had a phone with a touch screen. now they don't hardly make phones without them. People are used to having a phone that did only the basic functions and anything more than that is over whelming to them to have much more than simple.
Reguardless it really is an inteligence thing. people are intimidated by carrying around a computer in their pocket and yet i can tell them they are amazed everytme they see my phone after i have flashed a new rom "its like a having a new phone everytime" I've actually talked about 10 different people into gettng this phone in the last 6 months reguardsless that its "death" is schedulled at the end of this year. I'm maitaing a fleet of kaisers and training windows mobile users. They all were confused when they got them but about all you have to say is it runs just like windows and all the sudden it gets easier and easier.......
One thing i can say is noone i have ever talked to after i show them around to all the things they can do and how to use them have ever gone, "damn i shouldn't have gotten this phone." they all go off to flaunt it to their iphone friends.
After over one year of use I just wanted to write few lines about my impression of this PDA.
I travel a lot and I thought that a PDA could be helpful to keep in touch and do the IT chores while on the go. I was very wrong and I regret having bought the damn thing. The device tries to do many things but none of them well. In retrospective it sounded too good to be true.
At the beginning I did make a point of using it to its best potential but after a while I got so tired and annoyed with it that I have used it mostly like just any other phone.
I thought I would give myself some time to get accustomed to the complexity of the device before jumping to conclusions.
Over one year later and I still find it incredibly cumbersome and totally user unfriendly. The guys at HTC should go to Apple to get a crush course in making something user friendly.
Here are just a few things. The list is way longer but I would have to go back and try most functions to recall all the flaws.
- It's super slow. I am no super fast teenage geek but I am always waiting for the stupid thing to react to any command I give. It is very annoying and it's like stepping back to the time of the 286 PCs. The speed is archaic.
- The buttons controls are very difficult to feel with the touch and are very cumbersome to operate. Especially the side ones. I am sure that even blind people would have problems using them.
- Windows mobile is as bad as Microsoft gets. It's slow, counter intuitive, user unfriendly. Early Vista at the power of ten!
- Window media player is a joke. I have been using the PDA to listen to music in the car and it's a miracle I have not crashed while trying to select some music yet.
- The touch screen is also very bad and difficult to use. A lot of the commands are way too small for a man's finger. It is very difficult to select something on first attempt.
- To open a running program is difficult. One has to press the top right menu and than select what is running by touch only. The bar is about 4 mm high and it's very difficult to select using one hand. One cannot select by using the scroll bar and button.
- During phone calls the screen goes out quickly and to get it back one has to look for the hidden button on the side, very bad.
- Voice recognition sucks. Since the controls are so bad I now use the voice recognition most times. It's rare that the damn machine get it right on first attempt. Repeating the name twice helps but not always. I end up having to raise the tone as if I was yelling. Very embarrassing in public.
- The GPS take a long time to get the satellites even when the data has been updated.
- Active sync is a disaster. The guy that design it should be shot. I have given up on it altogether. I had to buy small software to access the data in the PDA and memory card.
Active sync could just not do the most elementary operation in a simple and straightforward way.
- The booting upon starting is the longest I have ever seen. Switching it off is also a chore
The list goes on but I am getting annoyed just to think about it all. This is the first and last product I’ll ever buy from HTC. Unless you are a geek that gets pleasure messing with IT devices do not buy it. Its use will take an unhealthy amount of your time. It will not help your life, it will waste a lot of your time and annoy you in the process.
Stay away from it!
My phone works perfect, it is a delight to use, does everything you mentioned above, great to reasonably well. It is fast, user friendly and I can't wait until I can upgrade to the TP II
My advice to you, since you are clueless, get the ipod that makes phone calls, it is built and over marketed especially for clueless people.
Agreed with denco7,
My HTC Kaiser (TyTn II) is also working fine. It is a great QVGA 2.8" phone!
ActiveSync works and simply works, I have never got any issue like you described.
GPS works, although TT7 is slower than TT6, but thats TT problem, not the phone.
I found Opera Mini works briliant with the D-Pad, which is much better than D-Pad-less phone. You know, press button to zoom, back to unzoom, scroll with D-Pad ... all one handed.
Screen goes out during call? Get a clue You knew this website, it should be the best resource.
My suggestion, dont use PDA Because it might be too complicated for you.
I like my TyTN II.
Maybe some of the things you think missed, you could configure them another way to get the most of the device. I think I'll never finish to get more and more from it. And I exhausted a P4350 before changing to the Kaiser.
denco7 said:
My phone works perfect, it is a delight to use, does everything you mentioned above, great to reasonably well. It is fast, user friendly and I can't wait until I can upgrade to the TP II
My advice to you, since you are clueless, get the ipod that makes phone calls, it is built and over marketed especially for clueless people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The PDA was also used by a friend of mine who is a blackberry user and talented software developer with many years of experience in IT. He did notice the same things and at times the thing did drive him crazy too.
My friend is also a guy that has switched to Linux long time ago. I have been too lazy and suffered in silence with MS crap but hopefully I will find the time to invest in changing for the better.
My friend impressions made me realize that I am not clueless as you say. In fact being a marine engineer I have dealt with equipment of all sorts for many years.
The PDA is designed by geeks for geeks. It is not a product for normal people. Anybody that buys this device has to spend many, many hours tying to sort it out and make it work better. I did that at the beginning and downloaded many fixes and upgrades. The very existance of this website and the number of people that use it is an indication that this PDA is not a product you switch on and just use. Very far from it.
I think you are like many people that after spending all that money don't want to admit that they got a lemon. The fact that you want to upgrade is a clear indication that you are not that satisfied with the gadget.
Just pick it up and slide the keyboard slightly. It takes 4.8 sec for the display to go from vertical to horizontal and back. If that is fast then you must be very slow.
Cheers
Yeah I also suggest you get an iphone. It's for people just like you.
No customization and power-user options, but your grandma can figure out the basic PDA functions.
TytnII has been great for me.
This is a negative and boring thread from the op! With some effort you can do a lot with the tytn2 as well as the tytn1! Very good devices!
I very much enjoy my Kaiser. I had some of the problems the OP had when I was running the AT&T stock ROM (with bloatware), but all that changed when I started using custom ROMs. The Kaiser is actually a very capable device, the only reason it underperforms is because it's hardware isn't fully taken advantage of (but even that's improving now). Once I flash a ROM and spend a whole 10 minutes customizing the device to how I like it, it runs like a dream.
OP: As the others have said in this thread, if you aren't willing to tweak the device, and customize the living crap out of it in order to get a faster Kaiser, maybe a feature phone or iPhone would be more suitable for you.
Dave
PS: (I have a 286, and it runs fine!)
I have a tytn, tytnII, titan, touch pro and a fuze. I must admit that every one of these devices were less than spectacular in the as-shipped form from the service provider. Thats why I found this site so I could make them all perform up to their hype.
Every one of them, thanks to the wonderful developers here, will outperform an iphown now. I have had very little problems like the OP described that were not simply fixed by changing a setting here or there. I like my tilt better than any of the others I have had (except the fuze.)
My 8525 (TyTn) works great and it has less power than the TyTnII. You can not get the most out of the phone unless you get rid of the stock OS. That's why XDA Devs rocks. Once the stock OS is gone - the phones rock!
mikechannon said:
This is the Kaiser forum. A forum dedicated to supporting Kaiser owners and providing answers to specific problems.
I'm sure you can see that this is not a supportive thread for TyTn II owners.
I'm not actually sure that expressing views about strongly disliking HTC and WM is a wise idea on a website dedicated to both those things.
However, and lest I be accused of wielding evil Moderator censorship powers, I will move this thread to off-topic. There it will take up its place accumulating wise and sensible contributions to the debate.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Mike,
It's not about being supportive or not. It's about giving a broad range of perspective so if tomorrow somebody wants to buy the device they can search for information and have a better idea of what they are getting into.
Unfortunately at the time I bought mine the information available was somehow biased towards people who think that is ok to spend 750 $ for a gadget that right away needs all sorts of non OEM twicks and upgrades to perform close to its marketing claims.
In any sector or product if one buys at the very top end of the price range should expect to end up with something that works well right away.
The TY TN II does not. HTC is a company with great potential but it should take a lot longer before releasing a product such this.
I belive that censorship does not help the people behind this site that are happy with the product either. My post is not off topic. They are first hand comments on the device from somebody that owns one, just like anybody else here.
Because of lack of unbiased information many people like me or even less prepared to mess with the device will buy it and up here nagging everyone else for help. Even for the silliest problems.
Let's be clear. This is a very niche product, HTC marketing pitch is misleading. It is not a piece of consumer goods suitable for the majority of people. It has to become a pet project for the buyer otherwise will not delivery to it's full potential.
I would suggest you put this thread in a very accessible location.
I am sorry if have hurt any TY TN II lovers
I suspect that a lot of people here see the device like their own baby.
Cheers
gogol said:
Agreed with denco7,
My HTC Kaiser (TyTn II) is also working fine. It is a great QVGA 2.8" phone!
ActiveSync works and simply works, I have never got any issue like you described.
GPS works, although TT7 is slower than TT6, but thats TT problem, not the phone.
I found Opera Mini works briliant with the D-Pad, which is much better than D-Pad-less phone. You know, press button to zoom, back to unzoom, scroll with D-Pad ... all one handed.
Screen goes out during call? Get a clue You knew this website, it should be the best resource.
My suggestion, dont use PDA Because it might be too complicated for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want to get this thread to go on and on. The purpose of my post is to just offer an alternative perspective on the PDA. Without it, anybody that stumbles on this site may be lead to think that it is a great PDA. Indeed it is for people that are willing, knowledgeable and happy to mess with it. I don't think that the majority of people fit that category.
I believe that most people when they spend top dollars expect to buy a piece of equipment that works at its best right out of the box. After all PDAs and many other gadgets should make life easier not more complicated. That is something often forgotten.
Your appreciation of Active Sync sounds very odd to my engineering mind always appreciating things that work in a simple and logic manner. I'll comment on this one because is one of my "favorite" about the device and MS.
How can Active Sync be good if you have to install it in every computer you have to exchange data with (actually you can only install it on 2 PCs only!!). That to me is totally counter intuitive, user unfriendly and simply stupid. I should be able to roam the world and exchange data with any PC and Macs by just plugging in without having to install anything. That's what happens with most other gadgets cameras etc. How is it possible that a 750 $ device cannot do such elementary thing out of the box. It's simply unbelievable and as I said very odd to see that there are so many people that are totally fine with it and actually like the feature.
The TY TN II and any top end PDAs also cater to people like me that travel extensively and to different countries. How such elementary need to exchange data in a simple way can be overseen???
If I had know that such basic feature was not available I would never have bought the thing. The problem is that this any many other points about the device are some kind of dirty secrets that are not been told and were not available when I was about to buy the device.
Luckily I found Softick Card Export and solved the problem of accessing the PDA with any computer as if it was an external hard drive. I recommend it.
But again, after I spent 750 $ I should not have to buy and install non OEM software to download a file to a friend computer.
Come on guys, MS does not even pay you! You are paying them!
mikechannon said:
Well yes in the interests of allowing different points of view, the thread has been kept, we are all entitled to a reasoned point of view.
However IMHO it is off-topic in the sense that keeping it in the TyTn II forum which is specifically to provide help for those who already have a TyTn II would be inappropriate. I did consider the General forum, but againthat is for those who already own an HTC phone and are seeking support perhaps for Windows Mobile issues.
So by elimination if nothing else "off-topic" was the choice. Those searching the likes of Google will still find it regardless of the forum it's in.
I still have my doubts that this is appropriate as a forum to choose for such a review/feedback because it can encourage flaming type posts. I'm sure you know what I mean - would you go to a Rolls Royce owners site to express your views about why they are not good cars? Maybe you would, but I think it would be better to choose a site that reviews different brands, rather than telling folk who already own the product that you think what they have is no good. I doubt folk trying to choose a product would consider a dedicated site to be an unbiased place to gather reliable reviews.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mike,
I happen to be one of those Rolls Royce owners (I wish!) that's why I think I should have a say on this site. My views are counter current that's all. I don't feel undermined here despite being a totally "visible minority". If people were to get inflamed about it then there is always the almighty moderator that should straighten things out.
I still think my post does not belong to the off topic section because I think the view of somebody like myself can be beneficial to the majority here. I know that this could be difficult to acknowledge for somebody.
On the wake of the recent purchase and proud of my shiny new device, in the first 6 months of ownership of the Ty TN II I was like most other people here, reading, downloading, twicking. After a while I realized that what I was doing was going against the very reason I bought the device in the first place which was make my life easier and make me save time.
At that point and tired of the constant work that the machine demanded I gave up on it. I bought a new laptop and used the PDA like a phone and navigator only.
If I had found posts like mine before I would have made my natural progression earlier and I would have saved myself a lot of time and headaches.
I am sure there are other people in that position and they should be able to benefit from opinions like mine without having to Google them. To the hard core PDArers it should make no difference. I understand there is a pleasure in molding a machine to you own specification. I respect that; years ago I would have kept on doing it.
I hope you understand my plea and thanks for your work. I and many others did benefit from this great site.
Unfortunately I don't think that I can ethically contribute to the HTC or MS cause in a positive way. The fact that they created the need for a site like this is totally unacceptable.
I believe that it is wrong to offer volunteer work to greedy corporations that totally don't give a damn about their customer base. HTC and MS are clear examples.
I wish the talented work of people like XDA-developers will go towards developing software and service for no profit organizations and not to patch up the shortcomings and disservice of these corporations.
Bill Gates has become a philanthropist to wash his sins. I hope his example will be followed by all the other big fish in the corporate world.
Cheers
olliric said:
I don't want to get this thread to go on and on. The purpose of my post is to just offer an alternative perspective on the PDA. Without it, anybody that stumbles on this site may be lead to think that it is a great PDA. Indeed it is for people that are willing, knowledgeable and happy to mess with it. I don't think that the majority of people fit that category.
I believe that most people when they spend top dollars expect to buy a piece of equipment that works at its best right out of the box. After all PDAs and many other gadgets should make life easier not more complicated. That is something often forgotten.
Your appreciation of Active Sync sounds very odd to my engineering mind always appreciating things that work in a simple and logic manner. I'll comment on this one because is one of my "favorite" about the device and MS.
How can Active Sync be good if you have to install it in every computer you have to exchange data with (actually you can only install it on 2 PCs only!!). That to me is totally counter intuitive, user unfriendly and simply stupid. I should be able to roam the world and exchange data with any PC and Macs by just plugging in without having to install anything. That's what happens with most other gadgets cameras etc. How is it possible that a 750 $ device cannot do such elementary thing out of the box. It's simply unbelievable and as I said very odd to see that there are so many people that are totally fine with it and actually like the feature.
The TY TN II and any top end PDAs also cater to people like me that travel extensively and to different countries. How such elementary need to exchange data in a simple way can be overseen???
If I had know that such basic feature was not available I would never have bought the thing. The problem is that this any many other points about the device are some kind of dirty secrets that are not been told and were not available when I was about to buy the device.
Luckily I found Softick Card Export and solved the problem of accessing the PDA with any computer as if it was an external hard drive. I recommend it.
But again, after I spent 750 $ I should not have to buy and install non OEM software to download a file to a friend computer.
Come on guys, MS does not even pay you! You are paying them!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, you're saying that with any other phone you can just connect it to a PC and transfer all the data on the fly? Well, with nokias you can't, you have to install the huge nokia pc suite. At least active sync is only a few megs, so even with a slow connection you can still get it fast. And, i still think active sync is the best or at least the simplest way to synchronize contacts / appointments / notes and emails.
If you want to exchange files i would advice to forget active sync, use a micro sd card reader, it's much simpler and faster.
About your first post, i understand your frustration, but everyone here will tell you, including me, that any windows mobile device is way more powerfull than any nokia, iphone or blackberry. But even with those you still have to know how to use them.
jaugusto said:
So, you're saying that with any other phone you can just connect it to a PC and transfer all the data on the fly? Well, with nokias you can't, you have to install the huge nokia pc suite. At least active sync is only a few megs, so even with a slow connection you can still get it fast. And, i still think active sync is the best or at least the simplest way to synchronize contacts / appointments / notes and emails.
If you want to exchange files i would advice to forget active sync, use a micro sd card reader, it's much simpler and faster.
About your first post, i understand your frustration, but everyone here will tell you, including me, that any windows mobile device is way more powerfull than any nokia, iphone or blackberry. But even with those you still have to know how to use them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In this day and age am I too demanding to expect to be able to read and exchange data with my PDA and any computer? The fact that the very little Softick card export software does it very easily shows that I am not asking much. There are no technological hurdles whatsoever. Why having to complicate things, switching off the device, pulling cards on and off, maybe damaging something in the process.
It is one of the features I needed right away and I don't think I am alone there. It should not take a great deal of imagination or creativity to figure this out. What are the HTC or MS designers been thinking?
I just don't see any good reasons for the lack of such basic features. The only reason I see is corporate greed that calls for gadgets and software that don't quite work so people keep on buying new ones.
We are a bunch of consumer cows being milked, I am afraid that's the sad reality.
The fact the the potential of a MS based PDA is greater than the competition does not make me feel any better. However, thanks for trying to help and for the kind words
olliric said:
In this day and age am I too demanding to expect to be able to read and exchange data with my PDA and any computer? The fact that the very little Softick card export software does it very easily shows that I am not asking much. There are no technological hurdles whatsoever. Why having to complicate things, switching off the device, pulling cards on and off, maybe damaging something in the process.
It is one of the features I needed right away and I don't think I am alone there. It should not take a great deal of imagination or creativity to figure this out. What are the HTC or MS designers been thinking?
I just don't see any good reasons for the lack of such basic features. The only reason I see is corporate greed that calls for gadgets and software that don't quite work so people keep on buying new ones.
We are a bunch of consumer cows being milked, I am afraid that's the sad reality.
The fact the the potential of a MS based PDA is greater than the competition does not make me feel any better. However, thanks for trying to help and for the kind words
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I prefer to think that technology is being developed, rather than big companies are just "milking us". Every new product is an evolution from something done before, not only with technology, but with everything manufactured in the capitalist markets we live in.
Basically, i think we have two choices: ware out our equipment untill we really need a new one (in case of a mobile phone for me i would say that it's about 3 years), or sell our semi-new equipment and buy a new one every year or so. I usually choose the first one, but i'm not always sure that it is the cheapest.
About speed, I know that the tytn II's are far from being the best phone HTC made, heck, my old magician (qtek s110) was way faster. But it didn't have to deal with gps, wifi, 3G, HSDPA, hardware keyboard, etc. They're only three years apart from each other, and look at the differences!
I actually agree with you that the kaiser is slow for a 2007 PDA, but it can do a lot. So, like everyone else in this forum, i've been reading, and trying, and failing, and trying again. The best Rom i've tried is shifu's v8, i do like it a lot. And the advantage of WM is that you can really do everything you want to change the look and the way you interact with your phone, and there are thousands of programs to do whatever you need your phone to do.
There's so many software out there, that it is hard to get to the best one for you. Some prefer SPB Mobile Shell3, i prefer Manila 2D. There's also the new Titanium in WM 6.5, PointUI, Throttle Launcher.... I compare this situation to the photography industry: there are hundreds of camera models, most of them give very similar image quality for the same price, but if you visit photography forums you'll find people that just can't get used to a certain model of a certain brand, and normally for reasons you wouldn't even think of.
That doesn't turn that model into a lemon, but usually makes it more special to the ones that actually like it.
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Just trying to help, as i don't consider myself a geek, but i do prefer windows mobile over symbian.
jaugusto said:
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually yes the BBs do USB File transfer when plugged into a PC with nothing extra installed. You get prompted on the device to enable Mass Storage Mode.
jaugusto said:
I prefer to think that technology is being developed, rather than big companies are just "milking us". Every new product is an evolution from something done before, not only with technology, but with everything manufactured in the capitalist markets we live in.
Basically, i think we have two choices: ware out our equipment untill we really need a new one (in case of a mobile phone for me i would say that it's about 3 years), or sell our semi-new equipment and buy a new one every year or so. I usually choose the first one, but i'm not always sure that it is the cheapest.
About speed, I know that the tytn II's are far from being the best phone HTC made, heck, my old magician (qtek s110) was way faster. But it didn't have to deal with gps, wifi, 3G, HSDPA, hardware keyboard, etc. They're only three years apart from each other, and look at the differences!
I actually agree with you that the kaiser is slow for a 2007 PDA, but it can do a lot. So, like everyone else in this forum, i've been reading, and trying, and failing, and trying again. The best Rom i've tried is shifu's v8, i do like it a lot. And the advantage of WM is that you can really do everything you want to change the look and the way you interact with your phone, and there are thousands of programs to do whatever you need your phone to do.
There's so many software out there, that it is hard to get to the best one for you. Some prefer SPB Mobile Shell3, i prefer Manila 2D. There's also the new Titanium in WM 6.5, PointUI, Throttle Launcher.... I compare this situation to the photography industry: there are hundreds of camera models, most of them give very similar image quality for the same price, but if you visit photography forums you'll find people that just can't get used to a certain model of a certain brand, and normally for reasons you wouldn't even think of.
That doesn't turn that model into a lemon, but usually makes it more special to the ones that actually like it.
So, my question is, is there any phone on the market that works like a simple usb pen? Does the iphone do that? Blackberrys? And you could use bluetooth to transfer data, have you tried that?
Just trying to help, as i don't consider myself a geek, but i do prefer windows mobile over symbian.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think corporations do plan to make every gadget quickly outdated. Hardware and software companies help each other in that regard. Software is designed to require more and more computing power even though is often not necessary. We could be a lot farther ahead after 20 years of consumer computers. MS is probably the main cause of this troubled development and we are still stuck with it. Window mobile may be better than others but is still very far from being good. That was also the idea of a MS project manager friend of mine who eventually left Seattle and MS. I remember venting my frustration with him and he had no excuse to offer.
I did do ROM upgrades early on but then I had to remove them after developing other problems. If one day I run into somebody that will do it for me I may give them another try. I just had it with this PDA I don't to waste anymore time.
I have a lot of other things in my life and I just don't want to spend time on something that should save me time. It just does not make any sense to me.
When this PDA will crap out I'll be very careful of what I may buy. I think I have learned the lesson. The only thing that I have appreciated is the navigator which is neither HTC or MS. I travel a lot so I keep the bastard only for that. I have to bear the bulk and weight of it for navigation and the occasional email.
I don't know if there are PDAs that can be used like a USB pen. I really hope so. It is such a simple thing, if there aren't any then it's really bad out there.
Thanks for your help
Cheers
I agree with everything you posted originally. Although, it's not HTC's fault as much as it is Microsoft's. I happen to love the G1
I've had a tilt for a year now and, while flashing ROMs does make it bearable, Windows Mobile just sucks in general imo.
mbarvian said:
I agree with everything you posted originally. Although, it's not HTC's fault as much as it is Microsoft's. I happen to love the G1
I've had a tilt for a year now and, while flashing ROMs does make it bearable, Windows Mobile just sucks in general imo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great to hear that I am not the only unhappy here. Actually I believe there are a lot more but they don't want to admit it.
So you guys de-lurk yourself and get it off your chest. You'll feel better. After all we just bought the PDA, we did not do anything terrible. There wasn't much choice anyway. If I made it or the OS then I would feel really bad about myself.
Cheers
Sometimes 2 pictures can tell a story better than 1000 words. What is wrong with one of these 2 pictures?
DEATH WISH / Link
vs.
ON-A-ROLL / Link
Is the MS strategy so secret and mind boggling that I am simply not smart enough to comprehend its brilliance? Or is there a wattage problem in MS's Board Room?
.
.
I can live with it adding $20 to the cost of a device. There are also things like TCO or similar that apply to a manufacturer and in turn to a customer.
The answer is yes. He is most definitely retarded.
Fact is that wimo could NEVER have been considered successful. Mostly because it is a piece of trash. Charging more [than nothing] for it is suicide -- especially when you compare it to the in-every-conceivable-way superior ANDROID, which is free.
I actually quite like their strategy of shooting themselves in the head. It means that they will die off faster.
Alright, let's do a recap:
-Android is 100% free, WinMo is not
-They are about to charge CARRIERS, so say goodbye to unlocked phones
-It's Windows Mobile, so say goodbye to Google services. If you like Bing, Windows Live and the rest, good for you, but most of us don't.
He is to Microsoft what Bush was to the US. He is arrogant, generally misoriented and strengthen the opinion the public has about Microsoft.
N1c0_ds said:
Alright, let's do a recap:He is to Microsoft what Bush was to the US. He is arrogant, generally misoriented and strengthen the opinion the public has about Microsoft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, this is quite apt, and yet I have never made the connection before. Now that you've made it for me, there are thousands of 1:1 analogies that flow like a rain-flooded river out of my head.
His "Mission Accomplished" was his laughing off the iphone. That was the beginning of the end of staying relevant. Now, 3-4 years later, he's introducing his own iphone, but with one very clever and extremely significant difference:
He's calling his Windows Phone.
Ballmer has been blowing it for years! That's why XDA thrives fixing his OS and why Adroid is on the fast track.
I had 3 WinMo phones before my Hero and I thought it was amazing, I was really reluctant to switch to Android, and after using Android for 1 day I'm pretty sure I'll never use WinMo again. If someone paid me $100 to use WinMo instead of Android, I wouldn't; so asking people to pay THEM to use WinMo is just stupid.
It really starts to come down to the essence of this site
rpimps said:
I had 3 WinMo phones before my Hero and I thought it was amazing, I was really reluctant to switch to Android, and after using Android for 1 day I'm pretty sure I'll never use WinMo again. If someone paid me $100 to use WinMo instead of Android, I wouldn't; so asking people to pay THEM to use WinMo is just stupid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my exact experience. It isn't a punitive view. It has nothing to do with loyalty/disloyalty, or "they're late to delivering their new OS, so I will punish them by not using it". This has everything to do with how good the combination of HTC + Android is. There is not one thing I long for, there is nothing at all that I am missing using my HTC Hero running Android. HTC's SenseUI on top of Android (which i had never run before, nor even tried before, deciding I wanted to buy the Hero) works so beautifully right out of the box, and the Android market is filled with apps & utilities that make the device's functionality even greater.
I spent over 3 years here, a whole year before even registering, just to help make my T-Mobile MDA device useful to me.
I am saying this: Before my first touchscreen device, I had a very reliable Samsung clamshell device... Being very careful, while in the car I could hit a speed dial and get someone on the phone, activate speakerphone etc., and when the call was done, bullet-proof step to end the cal;. I could feel it in my fingers.
Entering the world of touchscreens, of which I am such a huge champion I have created an awards series in support of, I quickly discovered, to my immediate dismay, "I can't even make a phone call without having this screen up to my face"... But worse, put it in my pocket and for a year my friends are all angry "why do you keep calling me?". Try to get the phone OUT of my pocket to answer a call before it goes to voicemail, 9 times out of ten a touchscreen area gets pushed and call is lost.
Then the tiny tiny keyboard you use reading glasses to see so you can poke that stylus precisely... I was wondering, "what have I traded away for a screen that can browse the web?"
Again, 4 years ago, thankfully one T-mobile store salesperson in San Francisco told me about this site, kind of in hushed tones while inside the store as employee. When I first came here, like with many folks, it was an intimidating jungle, with caution signs everywhere: "READ THIS FIRST" "DON'T POST WITHOUT SEARCHING". I would finally come to what I thought would be straight-forward set of instructions: "A Newbie's Guide to Upgrading your T-Mobile MDA", only to encounter in the very first sentence "Make sure your phone ist HARD-SPL'd or you'll brick it"... "HARD SPL? What does THAT mean?" It took me well over 6 months, back then, to stop-and-go, stop-and-go-back, just then searching for "what is HARD SPL?" only to come to yet another thread saying stuff like "To make sure your device is capable of HARD SPL, it must be all ROMS after 63i850db247, not before or you'll brick your phone"... Read 100's of pages of thread and not one post saying "Yes, your MDA is fine for Hard-SPL". On and on it went til finally, after being slapped down a few times for asking questions (they would link me back to the very threads I already had plowed through), I got some help to get me started.
And THAT day began the pursuit toward USEFULNESS OF USING MY PHONE.
Admit it, more than 3/4 of this site has always been about compensating for what may have been a very fine underlying OS, but a terrible, terrible unfriendly user experience. I upgraded to the T-Mobile Wing before the iPhone came out and was finally at the spot where XDA-devs had created 1000 workarounds for those tiny menus you have to hold up to your face to see... They stripped out the inefficiencies of various WM software, and suddenly I could multi-task keeping Google Maps aways open, with contacts open, notes, music player, ans various utilities. Finally, for me, after 3 years I had a USEABLE PHONE that matched the promise of the ads and marketing.
In almost all cases, XDA-devs were generally NOT exploiting some fabulously smart feature of WindowsMobile, and making it better. They were taking poorly-thought out functionality and terrible UI, and adapting it to become useful. And when the iphone hit, then the paradigm of finger-based navigation changed everything, and XDA-devs created UIs that replicated the easier to "hit" target zones of the iphone interface. Lots of 3rd party shells, etc... But almost ALL of this was to correct deficiencies due to handicaps of what was core Windows Mobile. Still, to this day, people like Supbro, developer of iDialer, and his branch of iContact, have been correcting the stupidity of tiny text for adding a new contact.
I'm just saying: Here I am 4 years later, having had amazing functionality delivered to me thanks to great chefs here, great app & utility developers, and, let's all face it, GREAT ROMS from HTC which were broken apart to extract and enable yet MORE compensating UI fixes (like TouchFlo), all to FIX and mask over the terrible user experience of Windows Mobile.
THUS, when I got my Hero, and began to use it, and from DAY 1, it just works, and it's easy and intuitive, and with all these great widgets and real-time display updates, I realized even more: JEEZ! Finally an OS that is smarter out the gate. Yet Windows STILL had a year to come in and show the marketplace it had learned a thing or two, after the G1 introduced the world to Android. And all they could burp out, with all their resources and skilled engineers, was windows 6.5? And they had to even quickly abandon their explicit HONEYCOMB Ui after it was immediately, and rightfully ridiculed as
"THIS is your new thinking, Microsoft? Your honeycomb staggered alignment, and your start button at bottom center. THIS IS IT??"
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So Ballmer 6-9 months ago "gets religion" and admits (in that infamous private meeting widely reported throughout cellphone land) his whole company should have focused on WM7, and not gone down the 6.5 path, because they were already so behind their new-found competitors... And there was a HOPE, a spark, an ember left, that said, OKAY, MS has HUGE resources and money... so if they tackle this well, they could well turn everything around. But that delivery date for WM 7 was FEBRUARY 2010. Meanwhile many companies moved forward: Google, Motorola, HTC and we saw October, November, December just POUND the marketplace with success after success of Android products, coupled with HTC and Motorola keeping the competitive spirit alive which drives innovation.
JANUARY 2010, and Google comes out with NEXUS ONE --- full of problems, including Google's total fumble with the whole concept of "dealing with customers"... and HTC has had their Snapdragon-processor phone lines well in development as well... And now they've got phones in the marketplace right now much better than the Nexus One, with a new optical trackball, and other usability advances.
And so here we are in February 2010, the very time at which WM 7 was set to be IN THE MARKETPLACE wowing us with what we all hoped would be something re-invented, reviving their tattered brand. And now it's September 2010? Who here believes they'll make THAT date? But great, a little tease at a Mobile World Congress revives some hope that it will all be worth it.
That's 7 months from now! We will surely see in that time a whole new iteration of iPhone OS software. And who knows what from Android?
So I come not to bash Ballmer, but to question his brain-function. With all these deficits working against MS's comeback, he has the audacity to play chess with the marketplace and proclaim there will be add-on carrier fees for his company's new WM7 OS phones? I really meant it literally. Does this man have a screw loose?
Sorry for the BOOK length post, but for anyone reading it, tell me where I'm wrong?
XDA-devs SAVED THEIR ASSES for the past 3 years -- by enabling their crippled OS to do tricks that satisfied customer demand. And now that I bought the Hero -- because I liked what I saw -- and have used it for 4 months, I just don't see the point in wondering "what will WM 7 really be like?" -- because once I made that leap, I'm no longer dealing with 3/4 of the efforts of this great site devoted to COMPENSATION for what WM lacked. Maybe there are people with great sentimental ties to WM -- because naturally after working one's asses off to build off of it, and create great useful software products, features and utilities, there would be a lot of cognitive dissonance at play when contemplating where to continue your development efforts going forward.
And there IS sentimentalism that drives quite a bit of WM enthusiasm. ANd that's fine. But here I am 4 months into using my HERO, and I have yet to even feel the need to come here and root my phone and make it EVEN BETTER. I will, for sure... But I haven't needed to. It's all frosting or gravy for something that inherently works AS SHIPPED.
So that's my rationale. rpimps' prior post just flushed this essay out of me... yet what he's said in 2 sentences summarizes everything I just typed.
Choice is good. And for everyone who wants to stick with WM, I am sure there will be plenty of fruits to bare. But meanwhile I *use* my phone and depend on it right now, not 7 months from now. I'm not looking back.
galaxys said:
That's why XDA thrives fixing his OS.
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And that really is the summary statement about the genesis of and incredible growth of this great site.
If they want to sell WM they need to make it exactly the same as Android, and make a long press on the Home button bring up the usual WM task list to switch between running apps. I'd buy that.
I'm starting to get pretty sick of all this love for Android and how anything Android will blow WP7 out of the water. All this love for a dumbed-down smartphone. None of us have seen WP7, except for a few screenshots here and there and in my opinion it looks great. MS had to make some changes if they wanted to stay relevant, because what we forget is that the "power-users" make up a very small percentage of the buyers market. However, I really do hope that MS does not forget about us all together. All I know is that come December, I'll be rocking the new WP7 and not an Android. Theres my 2 cents.
Irishpride said:
I'm starting to get pretty sick of all this love for Android and how anything Android will blow WP7 out of the water. All this love for a dumbed-down smartphone. None of us have seen WP7, except for a few screenshots here and there and in my opinion it looks great. MS had to make some changes if they wanted to stay relevant, because what we forget is that the "power-users" make up a very small percentage of the buyers market. However, I really do hope that MS does not forget about us all together. All I know is that come December, I'll be rocking the new WP7 and not an Android. Theres my 2 cents.
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This is an actual question, not an argument - what are some things WM can do that Android can't? I use my phone for business functionality and I don't consider myself a member of the "general public" and switching to Android after 3 WM phones, I haven't found a single thing (aside from maybe quicker switching between running apps) WM did that Android doesn't.
Steve Balmber retarded?
Hmmmmmm
Limited vocabulary
Edit: WTF!?
He's bat**** effing insane! Thanks for sharing
You guys are jumping the gun on this. At least wait and see how things go before you saying game over for WM and jump ship.
Do you guys ***** that the desktop or laptop or netbook you just purchased cost you $25-50 more because it is running Windows7 compared to Ubuntu or another Linux build? No way!
So why are you going to moan about a measily ~$10 fee on your phone for running WM7. Heck you can probably run a dual boot setup on your WM7 phone to run both Windows and Android to experience the best of both worlds...just like some of us have done with our computers.
Hi all. I've decided to try and make some future Microsoft product "my idea", so I've submitted the following letter to them via billg [at] microsoft [dit] com. I just wanted to know if you guys had any input.
Flaming is sure to happen, and while I won't argue with you, I will probably wish your firstborn child is used as a shot put.
Dear Microsoft,
Lately I’ve been bombarded with commercial after commercial showing random people (and their self perceptions) stating that Windows 7 was their idea for one reason or another. I’m not completely disgusted by these or anything, but it started my mind on one of those winding roads a character in a story might have to take to get home, or to the girl, or to the climax, or… well I guess that is kind of repetitious – but the point is, I started thinking about the variety of Microsoft’s operating systems and the history they’ve had – rather, our history together.
I’ve used just about everything Microsoft has created… I started my computer “education” by soldering a few broken parts back together on a Commodore 64 I found in a dump, and then learning BASIC on it (the BASIC on the Commodore 64 was a variant created and licensed by Microsoft). Right now, I’m typing this in Microsoft Word, on a laptop that has Microsoft Windows Vista, being distracted by a cellular phone that runs Microsoft Windows Phone 6.5.
That was a mouthful when I read it aloud.
But the reason for this letter is not so much a history lesson, but a worry of what is to come. It seems the goal over there the past few years is some cross between being different and being more like Macintosh, or Google, or insert company name here, and I’m here to state that I don’t like the transformation the publicists and tech news sites are ranting and raving about.
A few examples?
- Most recently must be the attempt to remove the clipboard features from my phone. I say “attempt”, because I am willing to bet that will be brought back, either by you or some developers out there.
- Office 2007’s menu structure looks like someone tried to “make it better” and ruined it.
- Windows Vista and Windows 7 both look like some kind of cross-dressing Microsoft product who was “supposed to be a Mac”.
What happens when you become so close to the competition that nobody can tell you apart? Developers and IT teams may not like parts of Windows, but they are able adjust most of what they don’t like to work for them. If this path continues, and all of the contenders out there do the exact same thing, you’re really shooting yourselves in the collective foot by taking away your uniqueness.
I guess what I’m really trying to say is “different” does not equal “better”. Get back to your roots and make something that your current audience will buy. Put them above the “new customers” you’re trying to reach. It’s the same error that many companies make nowadays – neglecting the long time customers for some new ones. You end up losing great customers that way.
See, I am a man. There’s an expression stating that men marry women expecting them to be the same, and women marry men expecting that they’ll change. I feel like Microsoft is giving in to the women out there – the ones who complain about it being too hard to use or not pretty enough – and we have enough of that already. I’m not trying to hate on women out there, but maybe the movie Team America explained it best… something about assholes, dicks, and ******* (I won’t go into it, but watch the movie if you need an explanation). What we need is for Microsoft to be a **** again.
Good luck and happy creating,
(Name Removed)
P.S. This email was sent using Microsoft Outlook.
Thanks in advance for any feedback,
Drunk
oooh nice
so did they reply back and what did the email say?
anyway nice letter
no replies yet, but I just sent it last night.
Mad props for Team America reference =P
the whole my idea is just a commercial not a real deal imho
http://gizmodo.com/5477384/windows-7-was-my-idea-but-to-be-fair-i-dont-know-what-im-talking-about
I don't doubt that it is just a big marketing gimick, but I wanted to explain that it looks like they are listening to people's ideas - just the wrong ones.
I'm waiting for them to show the ads on TV which make the claim that W7 has fewer clicks so I can report it to the ASA.
Starting a program like solitaire with the mouse is either the same number (if you don't mind a 2 second wait) or one more click than XP/Vista.
As for getting to the network card properties that's a heck of a lot more clicks than Vista or XP.
W7 has some very well thought out features, but unfortunately it's got more that just aren't.
I hate MS for putting me in a position where I have to say I prefer Vista! Damn them! Damn them to Hades!
WM7 looks awful, and the restrictions they're putting on it make no user or business sense.
Office 2007 is appauling, what were they thinking? Why make an application which users have to refer to google in order to complete simple common tasks?
Don't expect a reply, Drunk, at least something that isn't just generically polite and thanking you for your thoughtful input.
You blended good points that resonate with much of their shrinking user base, made up partly by people who have no idea they're running Microsoft and also in part by people who are obsessed with modifying them, with that bit on genitals. They're not interested in us anymore, nor would they want to add a lot of attention to your letter by giving you something from them to paste on and spread around. They want to intercept people from buying the other phones with no regard to who's already buying their own phones, and you can't really blame them considering how fast they're still falling (down 4% last quarter) toward obscurity.
Just to offer myself as an example of others reading what you just posted and what may be on their own minds, considering I made two websites about the damn thing, I'd say I was a bonafide WinMo fanatic, one of the last expected to say adios, but I just did, a Nexus One, and not only will I continue to love and go nuts with it I will attempt to take others with me. It's brewing right here on XDA, the place you'd think would be the haven mainly for people who like to do what can mostly only be done exclusively with WinMo phones.
Actually I read this by mistake, forgot to get rid of all my WinMo rss feeds on Google Reader to which my phone's synced. Good read though, glad you posted it. So thanks.
But no matter how much rabble you rouse here nor what signs you wave in front of their Seattle office you won't stop this train, the general direction of which they've made it clear that they are taking with WP7 being mostly the opposite of what a lot of us want. They can't please everyone and they'd rather please would-otherwise-be customers of their competitors even at the expense of estranging themselves from part of their existing customers. On the bright side, in addition to there being other options (specifically the one I took), they claim they'll keep supporting existing versions of WinMo for at least a while, though not forever on new devices I don't think which will have unique hardware that if I heard correctly won't even have removable storage, not to mention any support for decentralized application distribution. You don't like the sound of what's coming but what's coming is in their opinion good for business and I suppose mine too. When you're already failing at this rate in such a critical time of penetrating a huge market with enormous potential that will be realized further and further every day, it's hard to come up with a dumb idea on how to do things differently. Not to mention I've seen quite a few extremists shrug off each new bit of bad news saying Whatever I'll still try it, and once they do, then Microsoft has got them for at least a long enough period of time to figure out how to keep them hooked while they intercept little bits of business from the others. Right now they're handing business away. It's a joke.
Making sure the likes of you and others on sites like XDA remain happy customers as they implement these drastic changes to their mobile operations is not high up on their to do list.
Just sayin'.
Doug
Can't say I don't agree with you on most of that. I honestly don't expect much of a reply... at most a blanket letter or something like that. I've also been working my way to other vendors. I've got some android variant on my TP2 now and Ubuntu on my laptop (both still dual boots, but it's a step that direction). I just didn't want it all to happen without my 2 cents' worth being thrown at them.
Thanks for stopping by.
I hear you man, I'm all about ranting. This and this in particular. Also this.
Take a look at that and mobilitydigest.com (basically the same with a less weird domain), you'd make a great writer. Perfect style, perfect background (impressive by the way), perfect fire in your belly. We can't yet offer you money but what we can give you is an audience. Let me know.
"but I wanted to explain that it looks like they are listening to people's ideas - just the wrong ones."
yeah with the whole win phone 7 seeming like being a copy of the features of org iphone sure sounds like they are getting bad advice