Related
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I really really don't understand what you're trying to say in the post...
kid go back to school and learn how to spell...
its illegal to change the IMEI or "radio signature" of the phone, its the identity the phone has on a list the phone company has. Due to the fact that not everyone in the world is happy and nice, phones get stolen and companys blacklist phones (IMEI numbers), changing your IMEI number and circumventing this is a punishable by law. Theres also the fact that there is no point to change an IMEI number unless for malicious intent.
silly question, mediocre answer close thread
First of all you're post makes no sense what so ever, maybe you should of read what you was posting, second of all it is illegal to change the VIN number on you're car full stop, yes you can scratch it off and scribe you're own on their but that doesn't mean you have change it does it, !!
You're Knife story is just stupid and there is no point to it.
IMEI numbers will not be change for legal reason's would you be happy if someone claimed fraud on there phone got it replaced changed there IMEI number to the same as yours I think not,
Not only have you wasted a thread you have made you're self look like a 10 year old that cant spell or string a sentence together (I had to read it twice to try and make out what you was saying) maybe next time think about what you are going to post, yes I no flaming is against the rules here but meh you deserve it in this instance.
What a waste of time people come on here for help and to help people and learn new things not sit and read pointless threads.
Peace out
Moved to Off Topic.
egzthunder1 said:
Moved to Off Topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your actually keeping this topic?
PurpleSmurfLlama said:
Your actually keeping this topic?
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Agreed! The kid should do a spell check atleast
i read the first few lines and came to the conclusion the OP doesn't have a clue what is what in the world of the English Language... There is no legitimate excuse for changing your IMEI number...
Mr. randyrubb, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.
At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought.
Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
ist true, my skill in reading is now -3 points. Fail.
only American phone companies do that for her own stone age systems. no one else in the world register a phone to the provider . least not in the Free world (China, north Korea, Iran, and the USA maybe do so)
The minute your phone is on with a sim card in it the carrier to whom the sim card belongs to knows what phone you have. Yes, even in europe.
he may be foreign guys stop being assholes.
Yes its illigal but there are tools that do it I had to do it to 2 of my phones for reasons I will not explain and I do have tools to do it.
Its legal to do it for educational purposes but do not use the device if you think you might get cought.
Yes... foreign on an AT&T network...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=276851
Danni3 said:
[...]its illegal to change the IMEI[...]
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Click to collapse
According to what law? All that gets quote here is a bill that didn't pass.
Hello i installed the roto modem switcher and i need help to keep it from going to the tmobile.com site on 3g.
i know someone said that i might have to delete the efs folder so that redirected in the browser to my.t-mobile. Please help..
omgomgomgogmogmomgomg how many times am I going to see this question god dammit! Nobody here will be able to help you with that outside of a PM. The instructions were here at one point but they have been removed due to the illegality of the process.
scottprotege said:
omgomgomgogmogmomgomg how many times am I going to see this question god dammit! Nobody here will be able to help you with that outside of a PM. The instructions were here at one point but they have been removed due to the illegality of the process.
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Click to collapse
I dont understand how it is illegal? Aren't we allowed to alter our phones in anyways we want since it is our property? Its not messing with anyone else, its just allowing us to use what we are paying for.
PM me and I will explain how to stop it from redirecting.
Maybe you need to remove the tab from your ass and learn some manners.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
lhamptonjr said:
Maybe you need to remove the tab from your ass and learn some manners.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Or you could pull your mouse out of your ass and learn to click on the search feature. This question has come up more times than the honeycomb issue. I just ran a search...ONE search
http://www.google.com/cse?q=tmobile...ub-2900107662879704:fs7umqefhnf&ie=ISO-8859-1
And the answer was in the FIRST result.
* EDIT * - Looking over your OP I see now that you even used the term redirect AND you knew about the EFS folder so please please please use the search feature next time
RevenG said:
I dont understand how it is illegal? Aren't we allowed to alter our phones in anyways we want since it is our property? Its not messing with anyone else, its just allowing us to use what we are paying for.
PM me and I will explain how to stop it from redirecting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some people here were mentioning that to change your IMEI is actually illegal in some countries. I am not sure which countries this applies to.
In the US, according to a recent ruling, for the next two years you can modify your phone any way you like. The legality issue is regarding the iphone only, because you need to use pirated software to do the jailbreak. Not so for android. Just back upyour efs folder, then delete the original files, and you no longer go to the redirect site.
I agree, the amount of repeated questions is growing. People are losing patience with the lazy who don't try very much. It's taking a toll - I don't see a few prominent developers here anymore. Do your homework! Chances are, since you're getting to the game late, those new guy questions have already been answered.
Perhaps someone needs to read a contract on cell phone service. I am sure that it contains language prohibiting user to alter its identification on the network. IMEI is very similar to MAC assigned to every Ethernet network device. It allows to avoid clones on the network.
The cell phone number and IMEI are both identification codes but used in different layers of communication.
My guess that if number of clones would exceed tolerance level of some carrier it will introduce extra filtering and enforcement. Not sure that somebody would win in that case.
Adapt0r said:
Perhaps someone needs to read a contract on cell phone service. I am sure that it contains language prohibiting user to alter its identification on the network. IMEI is very similar to MAC assigned to every Ethernet network device. It allows to avoid clones on the network.
The cell phone number and IMEI are both identification codes but used in different layers of communication.
My guess that if number of clones would exceed tolerance level of some carrier it will introduce extra filtering and enforcement. Not sure that somebody would win in that case.
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Click to collapse
I have no contract to read so you guys can post all the help you want. The most amazing thing happened to me. I bought tmobile tab on amazon with no contract.
Thank you rangercaptain for saying something useful.
-RioT- said:
I have no contract to read so you guys can post all the help you want. The most amazing thing happened to me. I bought tmobile tab on amazon with no contract.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't had a contract for years either.
The court ruled on something called fair use saying people can unlock a phone for any network, remove any restriction to add any apps from any source, on any network they please.
I have an unlimited data plan and t-mobile is creating a software limitation that keeps me from using what I paid for. BY LAW I am permitted to modify my phone so I get what I paid for.
Adapt0r said:
My guess that if number of clones would exceed tolerance level of some carrier it will introduce extra filtering and enforcement. Not sure that somebody would win in that case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have a clone, and I pay for unlimited data. If I get cut-off, they are not keeping the agreement.
Besides, I'm not guessing, I read the law.
rangercaptain said:
I don't have a clone, and I pay for unlimited data. If I get cut-off, they are not keeping the agreement.
Besides, I'm not guessing, I read the law.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not for a Tab you don't. They don't sell an unlimited plan for it.
This is the TOS everyone abides to by using T-Mobiles service with or without a contract. It clearly states that a plan is to be used on the device it was added to and not any other equipment. Claiming the iphone ruling doesn't apply here since it had nothing to do with using a service. It was just hardware hacking related.
. * Data Plans and Other Features. You will be charged for data usage on a pay per use basis unless you are required to maintain a data plan (“Data Plan”) as part of your Service, or as otherwise provided by your Rate Plan or prepaid data pass. Permissible and Prohibited Uses: Your Data Plan is intended for Web browsing, messaging, and similar activities on your Device and not on any other equipment. Unless explicitly permitted by your Data Plan, other uses, including for example, using your Device as a modem or tethering your Device to a personal computer or other hardware, are not permitted. Other examples of prohibited uses can be found in Section 17. Protective Measures: To provide a good experience for the majority of our customers and minimize capacity issues and degradation in network performance, we may take measures including temporarily reducing data throughput for a subset of customers who use a disproportionate amount of bandwidth. If your total usage exceeds 5GB (amount is subject to change without notice; please check T-Mobile’s T&Cs on www.T-Mobile.com for updates) during a billing cycle, we may reduce your data speed for the remainder of that billing cycle. If you use your Data Plan in a manner that could interfere with other customers’ service, affect our ability to allocate network capacity among customers, or degrade service quality for other customers, we may suspend, terminate, or restrict your data session, or switch you to a more appropriate Data Plan
Yes I do. You don't know what agreement I have.
I had an unlimited blackberry plan, with international roaming, then I called customer service and told them I was switching to an android. They didn't sell me a device, only a plan, with no contract.
Anyway, that's not the point. If people want to enable 3g without the redirect they have to break something until T-Mobile changes.
I returned the t-mo tab and switched to at&t.
So, some of you may have received an email requesting you fill out a short survey for a chance to be included in the beta test for the upcoming AT&T Atrix firmware update. I implore you to read this message and at least consider it.
I write this as a request to the members of the XDA community to be respectful to Motorola. Frankly, I was absolutely embarrassed to be a member of this community with how many of you handled the last beta test. Posting confidential information, breaking the NDA, posting restricted tools on the Motorola forum itself? It doesn't matter what "morals" you decide you want to follow, take it somewhere else please. That kind of behavior does nothing but HINDER our cause. If I was Motorola, and I looked at how my end users reacted to something they agreed to uphold, I wouldn't want to give them anything further. Play by the rules. You don't have to agree with them, and if you don't like them, you're free to protest, but do so within the CURRENT rules and laws. File a complaint, write a petition, picket outside Motorola's HQ, but please:
Don't break NDA.
Don't post restricted files.
Don't yell and scream and swear at Motorola.
You do nothing but make us look like fools when you do these things.
This thread is not meant to open discussion. This thread is not meant to start a flame war. This thread is my personal request to the members of the XDA community as one of the few developers actually working on the platform right now: Please be civil, and please be mature.
Thank you.
-Ririal (aka Fenrir)
I see where you're coming from, but I reserve the right to yell and cuss at whomever I want. ;-)
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
Ririal said:
So, some of you may have received an email requesting you fill out a short survey for a chance to be included in the beta test for the upcoming AT&T Atrix firmware update. I implore you to read this message and at least consider it.
I write this as a request to the members of the XDA community to be respectful to Motorola. Frankly, I was absolutely embarrassed to be a member of this community with how many of you handled the last beta test. Posting confidential information, breaking the NDA, posting restricted tools on the Motorola forum itself? It doesn't matter what "morals" you decide you want to follow, take it somewhere else please. That kind of behavior does nothing but HINDER our cause. If I was Motorola, and I looked at how my end users reacted to something they agreed to uphold, I wouldn't want to give them anything further. Play by the rules. You don't have to agree with them, and if you don't like them, you're free to protest, but do so within the CURRENT rules and laws. File a complaint, write a petition, picket outside Motorola's HQ, but please:
Don't break NDA.
Don't post restricted files.
Don't yell and scream and swear at Motorola.
You do nothing but make us look like fools when you do these things.
This thread is not meant to open discussion. This thread is not meant to start a flame war. This thread is my personal request to the members of the XDA community as one of the few developers actually working on the platform right now: Please be civil, and please be mature.
Thank you.
-Ririal (aka Fenrir)
(p.s. to moderators, if you feel I'm out of line, you may remove this thread at any point.)
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Click to collapse
Thanks so much for posting this... i felt the exact same way
+100 (to Ririal's OP, not the clown who posted right before me)
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
basically, dont bring xda into it.
mafiaboy01 said:
Well I'm not worried about moto doing anything to me, they'll come after me as fast as there getting the bootloader unlocked.
Bite me
Sent from Motorola Atrix on TELUS.
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Its people like you that ruin the hard work others put into this and other issues we may have with companies. He didnt mention anything about them coming after one of us or any of us for that matter he simply asked us to not break NDA (something that is Legally speaking far more dangerous than you take for granted) and also to not make our community (that is to say the developer community) look like complete loser's. who would honestly want to help someone who is constantly screaming and cursing at them? I know i wouldn't and I say that from COMPLETE Experience seeing as thats EXACTLY what I do on a daily basis and I constantly make people do the harder work if they are yelling at me. so why not just get your head out of your butt and act a bit more mature about the OP and maybe be more respectful.
To the moderators,
I apologize as I know this is attacking a specific person and that is not usually something that is allowed. But people like this need to realize just the potential they hold for possibly taking down something as great as these forums. If you feel that you need to remove my post please do so, but I ask that in this case you may let me know so that I realize just how strict on these rules you may be.
caderon said:
Its people like you that ruin the hard work others put into this and other issues we may have with companies. He didnt mention anything about them coming after one of us or any of us for that matter he simply asked us to not break NDA (something that is Legally speaking far more dangerous than you take for granted) and also to not make our community (that is to say the developer community) look like complete loser's. who would honestly want to help someone who is constantly screaming and cursing at them? I know i wouldn't and I say that from COMPLETE Experience seeing as thats EXACTLY what I do on a daily basis and I constantly make people do the harder work if they are yelling at me. so why not just get your head out of your butt and act a bit more mature about the OP and maybe be more respectful.
To the moderators,
I apologize as I know this is attacking a specific person and that is not usually something that is allowed. But people like this need to realize just the potential they hold for possibly taking down something as great as these forums. If you feel that you need to remove my post please do so, but I ask that in this case you may let me know so that I realize just how strict on these rules you may be.
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Click to collapse
Happy ?
Sent from Motorola Atrix on TELUS.
+1 fully agree with OP. Posting elements of the update will get poster in trouble and could get XDA in trouble. Also behave like a civilized person yelling and screaming as a child got you nothing and it'll do nothing now... just my 2 cents
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
I have to laugh a little at this post. While I think the post has the best of intentions, this entire community is in the "business" of violating user agreements --the development sub-forum, in particular. Now, before you say that by rooting devices, you are only voiding your warranty, Motorola (Apple, Samsung, or just about any other vendor) would claim that XDA is violating their intellectual property. This is why people receive the C&D letters when sbf's and the like are posted.
Fortunately, the Library of Congress has explicitly ruled that these activities essentially fall under the fair use clauses of copyright law (http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2010/75fr43825.pdf). While this has yet to be thoroughly tested in the courts, as long as xda's activities remain non-commercial, Motorola would likely lose a legal battle trying to close down such activities. So, their only substantial alternative is to void your warranty.
I think comments like "Play by the rules. You don't have to agree with them, and if you don't like them, you're free to protest, but do so within the CURRENT rules and laws. File a complaint, write a petition, picket outside Motorola's HQ" are a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. Why can't you make those exact arguments when it comes to rooting your device?
These activities are legal, you are only voiding the contract you made with Motorola when you post items covered under an NDA. This is not illegal. This group of developers dedicates itself to violating contracts with Motorola and AT&T left and right. Why does this especially cross a line?
I do agree that people don't need to get nasty and go off on rants, but don't confuse rooting and related activities with something illegal.
decoyd said:
I have to laugh a little at this post. While I think the post has the best of intentions, this entire community is in the "business" of violating user agreements --the development sub-forum, in particular. Now, before you say that by rooting devices, you are only voiding your warranty, Motorola (Apple, Samsung, or just about any other vendor) would claim that XDA is violating their intellectual property. This is why people receive the C&D letters when sbf's and the like are posted.
Fortunately, the Library of Congress has explicitly ruled that these activities essentially fall under the fair use clauses of copyright law (http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2010/75fr43825.pdf). While this has yet to be thoroughly tested in the courts, as long as xda's activities remain non-commercial, Motorola would likely lose a legal battle trying to close down such activities. So, their only substantial alternative is to void your warranty.
I think comments like "Play by the rules. You don't have to agree with them, and if you don't like them, you're free to protest, but do so within the CURRENT rules and laws. File a complaint, write a petition, picket outside Motorola's HQ" are a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. Why can't you make those exact arguments when it comes to rooting your device?
These activities are legal, you are only voiding the contract you made with Motorola when you post items covered under an NDA. This is not illegal. This group of developers dedicates itself to violating contracts with Motorola and AT&T left and right. Why does this especially cross a line?
I do agree that people don't need to get nasty and go off on rants, but don't confuse rooting and related activities with something illegal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're not understanding what he's saying.
He's telling people who sign up for Moto's beta test, to actually follow the NDA (non-disclosure agreement), and not post the update.zip files that we are supplied as beta testers. It is against the agreement we make with Moto when we sign up and accept the beta test update. That has NOTHING to do with rooting your phone or modifying your files on your phone.
Example: I get the update, immediately pull the .zip off my internal SD card and throw it on Megaupload and post the link for everyone to have.
Doing that basically tells Motorola "F you and your beta testing", and shows that we have no intentions of working with them. All that will do is stop them from trying to work with us (and even if you don't think they are because they're not giving us the golden keys to their phone, they are still trying to work with us as a consumer in the fullest capacity they can as a commercial company).
We can have the situation where we get zero testing to updates until they're released, or even worse ZERO updates because Motorola no longer feels the consumer has any desire to work with them, or we can have a synergistic relationship going to the extent that both parties can get at least some part of their way.
Having them unlock the bootloader for us is honestly IMO never going to happen. NO phone company is doing this, so it's silly to think they will or that we deserve it. Devs are the ones who unlock or bypass bootloaders and all our Android phones; devs will find a way, a 3rd party will find a way, but Motorola has zero interest in doing that for us and to think otherwise is foolish. So what they DO give us, may help other people to figure it out and crack it themselves. But we need things to work both ways, with Moto giving a little room for us to update our software and continue on with Android's progress.
To correct some misunderstandings: You have the right to jailbreak your device, but you do not have the right to posses or share someones intellectual property without permission, or break NDA.
Agree and disagree with op. Agree because we should not be breaking such an agreement. Disagree because such an agreement should not exist in the first place.
Sent from my Atrix using XDA Premium App.
dLo GSR said:
It is against the agreement we make with Moto when we sign up and accept the beta test update. That has NOTHING to do with rooting your phone or modifying your files on your phone.
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Click to collapse
(1) You violate (or at least I do) agreements with Motorola all the time. Why is this time different?
(2) This has EVERYTHING to do with root. The whole reason people do this is to keep phones unlocked/rooted.
dLo GSR said:
Doing that basically tells Motorola "F you and your beta testing", and shows that we have no intentions of working with them.
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Click to collapse
(3) False. If we were given a way to obtain root or have an unlocked bootloader through official channels, you can make this argument. As the situation is quite the opposite, I don't see how this is a valid conclusion.
dLo GSR said:
All that will do is stop them from trying to work with us
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Click to collapse
(4) I'm honestly baffled by this statement.
Saying that these activities is going to push Motorola to provide "ZERO" updates is ludicrous. Could it encourage them to not offer betas before release? Maybe, but I doubt it. They need feedback.
In the end, I just reiterate: Why draw the line at posting files from betas? SBFs are posted all the time. We violate our agreements all the time, so what's so different this time?
knigitz said:
To correct some misunderstandings: You have the right to jailbreak your device, but you do not have the right to posses or share someones intellectual property without permission, or break NDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
False. The point is that jailbreaking is legal, and if you read the LoC ruling I posted, you'll see that the related activities of distributing their software (e.g. sbf's) is NOT a violation of their IP. Just like using clips from a copyrighted movie in a documentary without permission is not a violation of copyright. NDAs are no different than the EULAs which are violated left and right. What's the big difference between everyone happily violating their user agreements with Motorola and AT&T but somehow the NDA is now sacrosanct.
Added links: http://www.copyright.gov/1201/docs/2006_statement.html and http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2006/71fr68472.html
I'd tend to agree with the OP ..
Stuff will leak, and the fact is we're all looking to get the next new thing / enhancement, but we should all demonstrate a little discretion if not for any other reason than to be practical ... The more blatant (some of the stuff on the mot forum bordered on ridiculous) the more likely the vendors will shift even more effort and resources to locking things down.
All imho, which when I last checked we're all entitled to
decoyd said:
(1) You violate (or at least I do) agreements with Motorola all the time. Why is this time different?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because this one isn't an implicit I-opened-the-product-box, you signed up as a beta tester, which is not a given privilege as a consumer. This is an OPT-IN test opportunity. Probably 98% of the people with the Atrix do not participate in this beta test. Like you said, we're allowed to root/jailbreak our phones technically because of the LoC ruling. That does not make you immune to breaking an NDA. Don't be ignorant. I have seen people sued and prosecuted for breaking NDAs, especially in my line of work.
I got the beta update, and I tried it, gave my feedback, and went back to 1.2.6. When someone figured out how to do root and they released the update ALL OF FIVE DAYS LATER, I updated. I do not believe that releasing the update to the masses in any way helped to re-gain root access for 4.1.57.
decoyd said:
(2) This has EVERYTHING to do with root. The whole reason people do this is to keep phones unlocked/rooted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While that may be true, and rooting in itself is not wrong, the process to get it by releasing a company's IP is. Geohot lost on this one with Sony. If you want the damn beta update so bad, then SIGN UP FOR IT. If you're so committed to finding root and unlocking our bootloader, THEN PARTICIPIATE in the beta. None of that requires you to break the NDA.
decoyd said:
(3) False. If we were given a way to obtain root or have an unlocked bootloader through official channels, you can make this argument. As the situation is quite the opposite, I don't see how this is a valid conclusion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right. Biting the hand that feeds you is a way better solution to getting what you want.
decoyd said:
(4) I'm honestly baffled by this statement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What, you don't understand common logic?
decoyd said:
Saying that these activities is going to push Motorola to provide "ZERO" updates is ludicrous. Could it encourage them to not offer betas before release? Maybe, but I doubt it. They need feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They don't need feedback from us. They can easily throw together a small focus group or do in-house testing or carrier testing that doesn't include us. Most companies work that way. We were fortunate to have Moto decide to include the general public.
decoyd said:
In the end, I just reiterate: Why draw the line at posting files from betas? SBFs are posted all the time. We violate our agreements all the time, so what's so different this time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're opting in for this test. If you can't handle the rules and regulations, then don't do it and just wait and whine until the actual update is released. I can't remember anyone complaining of signing up for the Beta and not getting in, so if you want the damn file, then sign up and get to work.
And thank you for ignoring about 50% of my post.
decoyd said:
I have to laugh a little at this post. While I think the post has the best of intentions, this entire community is in the "business" of violating user agreements --the development sub-forum, in particular. Now, before you say that by rooting devices, you are only voiding your warranty, Motorola (Apple, Samsung, or just about any other vendor) would claim that XDA is violating their intellectual property. This is why people receive the C&D letters when sbf's and the like are posted.
Fortunately, the Library of Congress has explicitly ruled that these activities essentially fall under the fair use clauses of copyright law (http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2010/75fr43825.pdf). While this has yet to be thoroughly tested in the courts, as long as xda's activities remain non-commercial, Motorola would likely lose a legal battle trying to close down such activities. So, their only substantial alternative is to void your warranty.
I think comments like "Play by the rules. You don't have to agree with them, and if you don't like them, you're free to protest, but do so within the CURRENT rules and laws. File a complaint, write a petition, picket outside Motorola's HQ" are a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. Why can't you make those exact arguments when it comes to rooting your device?
These activities are legal, you are only voiding the contract you made with Motorola when you post items covered under an NDA. This is not illegal. This group of developers dedicates itself to violating contracts with Motorola and AT&T left and right. Why does this especially cross a line?
I do agree that people don't need to get nasty and go off on rants, but don't confuse rooting and related activities with something illegal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I have to laugh at how you didn't even read what the post was about.
This is about the beta test, nothing more, nothing less. The entirety of the test is enclosed under an NDA, which regardless of your personal or moral standards, is a legally binding contract and should not be broken. Last time there was a beta test, users willingly and knowingly broke the NDA and posted the confidential information all over the forums. Most of those threads were shut down immediately. When I root my device, I'm not breaking a signed agreement that says I won't root my device. It's not even close to the same thing, you're overgeneralizing the subject. I'm talking about a very specific thing here, not android hacking in general.
Also, an NDA is a legally binding contract, and it IS illegal to break. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement
dLo GSR said:
Having them unlock the bootloader for us is honestly IMO never going to happen. NO phone company is doing this, so it's silly to think they will or that we deserve it. Devs are the ones who unlock or bypass bootloaders and all our Android phones; devs will find a way, a 3rd party will find a way, but Motorola has zero interest in doing that for us and to think otherwise is foolish. So what they DO give us, may help other people to figure it out and crack it themselves. But we need things to work both ways, with Moto giving a little room for us to update our software and continue on with Android's progress.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then why is HTC so responsive to 3rd party devs? (Excluding Thunderbolt, wtf is with that) I have Cognition on my Captivate, and CM7 on my Inspire. So forgive me if I decide to disagree with you that it's not silly to want an unlocked bootloader.
Especially on my captivate. The thing is complete crap without Cognition. Yet I was able to easily install ROM manager and Cognition and slap it on there. It's only Motorola right now that are big enough pricks to do this to us. Sony gave their users a way to install ROMs. Now it's only us locked in the cage.
dLo GSR said:
If you can't handle the rules and regulations, then don't do it
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Click to collapse
How do you justify rooting your phone? You are violating their rules and regulations. Nobody is forcing you to buy their product.
NDA's are pretty serious business. Just because Motorola doesn't sue you doesn't change this fact. Lifetime friends of mine that work at Microsoft and Google can't tell me what they are working on specifically. I've gotten used to responses like "working on Google Maps" and not bothering them for more details because I respect their NDAs.
Ririal said:
And I have to laugh at how you didn't even read what the post was about.
This is about the beta test, nothing more, nothing less. The entirety of the test is enclosed under an NDA, which regardless of your personal or moral standards, is a legally binding contract and should not be broken. Last time there was a beta test, users willingly and knowingly broke the NDA and posted the confidential information all over the forums. Most of those threads were shut down immediately. When I root my device, I'm not breaking a signed agreement that says I won't root my device. It's not even close to the same thing, you're overgeneralizing the subject. I'm talking about a very specific thing here, not android hacking in general.
Also, an NDA is a legally binding contract, and it IS illegal to break. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement
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I hope no one gets mad, but this > < discussion should be here and made sticky for AT LEAST the droid x for further development and hacking. This should be only for educational purposes! All in all though, I feel that this topic would be more quickly busted or confirmed on this site. Please post ANY findings and/or results here. As you can see I have posted to this site the locations of ALL meid an pesn of the druid 2 global phone, but was unsuccessful at using these scripts to do anything to this phone. Thanks ppl and let's keep this thread going for the lifespan of the phone. All credit given whet credit is due, as you can see from the post. No stealing or hijacking intended. This is all I could find on Moto devices. Also have a Devour to test this on with a lil more skilled guidance.
Again? Really?
ESN changing is against the law in the country of which these forums are hosted. I'm going to assume this will be deleted before you even read my post.
There is no legal reason to 'repair' your MEID. Please move back to Howard Forums where they still seem to allow this type of discussion.
Just read forum rules.
I have just read the forum rules and it says nothing about not discussing maid/est repair. This is for educational purposes. And, if like me, changing these numbers is legal if you own both the donor (which in my case is broken) and the clone, and are not trying to sell the donor or clone, which would be invasion of privacy and fraud, then it is legal. I own both phones. My touch pro wont boot anymore and I own my droid 2 global, which is the one I want to write theses numbers to. I am not selling either. So why not learn more about these devices. I should be able to do what I want with my property. Take a look here, I googled this just for you and people like you. -> http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cell-phone-fraud <- And as can see clearly I am doing nothing illegal. I wish people would stop saying that it is illegal. It scares people who just heard it somewhere else without doing their own research first. On with this discussion please mods.
I still don't understand what this is. I seen this posted on Howard, and was interested by the topic. I tried Googling but I came up short with any clear definitions.
narsciso said:
I still don't understand what this is. I seen this posted on Howard, and was interested by the topic. I tried Googling but I came up short with any clear definitions.
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The meid/esn is the phone-specific "serial" number that Verizon uses to identify your phone. If a phone is reported as lost or stolen to Verizon, the meid/esn gets blacklisted so that the phone cannot be activated (so if someone steals your phone or finds it on the street, they can't put it on their account).
This thread describes how to alter the meid/esn to something else, so it can be fixed/unblacklisted.
solcam said:
I have just read the forum rules and it says nothing about not discussing maid/est repair. This is for educational purposes. And, if like me, changing these numbers is legal if you own both the donor (which in my case is broken) and the clone, and are not trying to sell the donor or clone, which would be invasion of privacy and fraud, then it is legal. I own both phones. My touch pro wont boot anymore and I own my droid 2 global, which is the one I want to write theses numbers to. I am not selling either. So why not learn more about these devices. I should be able to do what I want with my property. Take a look here, I googled this just for you and people like you. -> http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cell-phone-fraud <- And as can see clearly I am doing nothing illegal. I wish people would stop saying that it is illegal. It scares people who just heard it somewhere else without doing their own research first. On with this discussion please mods.
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Well I'm glad you answered your own question then =)
What Is Cell Phone Cloning Fraud?
Every cell phone is supposed to have a unique factory-set electronic serial number (ESN) and telephone number (MIN). A cloned cell phone is one that has been reprogrammed to transmit the ESN and MIN belonging to another (legitimate) cell phone. Unscrupulous people can obtain valid ESN/MIN combinations by illegally monitoring the radio wave transmissions from the cell phones of legitimate subscribers. After cloning, both the legitimate and the fraudulent cell phones have the same ESN/MIN combination and cellular systems cannot distinguish the cloned cell phone from the legitimate one. The legitimate phone user then gets billed for the cloned phone’s calls. Call your carrier if you think you have been a victim of cloning fraud.
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What you would be doing is not illegal, but the information used to do your 'legal' activity could be used to do something illegal. Yes it comes down to "ZOMG Some guy posted a bomb recipe, that's illegal!!!"... well no, but whoever hosts that bomb making recipe could be held as an accomplice for future bombings using said recipe.
Which is why MEID/ESN changing is usually instantly locked on most if not all US forum sites, including this one.
A little help
Honestly I thought this thread would be closed a while back because every time i looked into this before threads would magically dissappear. But its still here so here is some help. The esn meid is only half the problem, the other half is the A-key, this key verifies your phone every time you make a phone call, wihout jt you will get a message that tells you your phone cannot be verified. After you manage to get that you need a username and password in order to achieve 3g access. That aside the reason your hexs dont match is because its ram and he meid will get moved around randomly after boot. Basically this means that you will need to find all addresses before your next reboot or the keys might move again. So not only is the hexes different from phone to phone it is also different from boot to boot. Another thing you are having issues wih is the meid returnin after each reboot. This only happens when you miss an meid. I have found that there are certain locations that have memory locks and will nkt let you map it. If you use the default settings for scanning you will miss meid locations. What you have to do is scan and after each map decrease the number smaller and closer to the memory lock until you find the exact location for thsat memory lock. Repeat for each lock until you have exact locations for every valid memory location. Then dump those locations and use a hex editor to calculate where each meid location is. Use another tool to directly modify each meid location to all 0s. After all locations for both esn and meid are 0ed then you can reboot. Oh forgot to mention one more thing he esn and meid are reverse inverted. Meaning an esn will be A00000123456 will be 56 34 12 00 00 A0 same with esn.
And yes i was being purposly vague. If you cant fill in the blanks you really shouldnt be atempting to do this. You can easily permanently brick your phone.
HacDan said:
Well I'm glad you answered your own question then =)
What you would be doing is not illegal, but the information used to do your 'legal' activity could be used to do something illegal. Yes it comes down to "ZOMG Some guy posted a bomb recipe, that's illegal!!!"... well no, but whoever hosts that bomb making recipe could be held as an accomplice for future bombings using said recipe.
Which is why MEID/ESN changing is usually instantly locked on most if not all US forum sites, including this one.
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That isn't true, the hosting party can not be brought in as an accomplice you need to go get your facts straight. If the hosting agent said "Hey you should blow up a building with this bomb" then you are right. If they say "We are a library of knowledge" they can not.
It's all about intent. For this purpose it is about information, and information is power. There are a LOT more people trying to FIX their phones then trying to steal. There are many other valid and lawful uses as well, such as switching these verizon wireless phones to cricket or some other prepaid service (which is legal if you buy one of their pre-paid phones and use it as a donor phone).
People, please take your head out of your butt on this issue. It is not illegal, it is what you do with the information that makes it legal/illegal. If you are a crook you will get caught and do 5 years for screwing around with phones (moron). If you are not a crook and are looking to xfer service to a prepay or fix your phone then it's perfectly lawful.
ok here is my issue with this also. I am on metro and I have the eris flashed by them to talk and text. I received a droid a855 which I see fully flashed to metro everywhere for sale people talking about them anything of the sort. But I have flashed the prl and all info for metro but will they turn it on. NOPE they will not add the clean esn from my droid to their network at all. So I have been searching for how to do this also as I will scrap my eris for use as a testing and wifi only device and put its info on the droid and then put the eris sticker on it also. And the eris will be blank. But do you think I could get this to work right nope. I have found 4 total meid/esn locations and changed them with a few programs and also made sure they are right. and reflashed the file to the phone and nothing at all changed. I need help please. And to the legality of this I called a guy on craigslist and asked him to put my esn in metros data base and he said I have to have a account and he would change the esn and meid to match my metro phone that is on now?????? he had posted as to adding the esn not changing. And he is not the only one here doing this. I have skills in computers and phones but im just lost on the droid not taking the writes. Ok thanks and PM me if needed.
Preach! Free speech dies another slow death... Instead of commenting, help someone with a cellular issue... Pay it forward = mankind advances by helping one another
HacDan said:
Well I'm glad you answered your own question then =)
What you would be doing is not illegal, but the information used to do your 'legal' activity could be used to do something illegal. Yes it comes down to "ZOMG Some guy posted a bomb recipe, that's illegal!!!"... well no, but whoever hosts that bomb making recipe could be held as an accomplice for future bombings using said recipe.
Which is why MEID/ESN changing is usually instantly locked on most if not all US forum sites, including this one.
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This is very help fully I wish I knew this when I got my phone because it was 9pm est and I was not a authorized user on my parents account and my grandmother is on the otherwise of the country and I had to wait a whole day to activate the phone and if I would of known about this I would of transferred my Omnia's meid over
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Sorry, but this stinks of legal technicalities.
Rule #9 is used in situations like these, and so I'll have to close the thread.
9. Don't get us in trouble.
Don't post copyrighted materials or do other things that will obviously lead to legal trouble. If you wouldn't do it on your own homepage, you probably don't want to do it here either. This does not mean we agree with everything the software piracy lobby try to impose on us, it simply means you cannot break any laws here, since we'll end up dealing with legal hassle caused by you. Please use common sense: respect the forum, its users, and those that write great code.
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I have been back and forth with both T-Mobile and Sony tech support about unlocking my Sony Xperia Z Model C6606 4.3 T-Mobile variant Build 10.4.C.0.814. When I entered the service code '*#* blah blah blah' it says unlock = No. Not possible. No beans. Sorry Charlie. No luck, no joy.
The following is a paraphrase of the exchanges with these two corporate giants, modified for brevity and the hope that the crushingly depressing outcome might be presented as slightly humorous.
I asked them, 'How do you update the system software when new releases are available?' They replied that there are 'special codes' that unlock the bootloader for the update. And I thought to myself, Really? Isn't that special.
I remarked that if it was possible for them to remotely upgrade the system software (read: kernel), then it is possible for them to remotely unlock the bootloader. The song and dance routine that followed was remarkable. In essence, they declined. Not possible. No beans. Sorry Charlie. No luck, no joy.
I said, if you won't unlock the bootloader now that we have established that you can, would you downgrade the system software to something where I can unlock the bootloader? Again, they declined and left me with nothing more than visions of 'special codes' dancing in my head. Not possible. No beans. Sorry Charlie. No luck, no joy.
My only question is, "Why not? Why on some and not on others?"
This is what you call company's politic, and people who work for it need to fallow this politic, even if its bad for consumer.
This world that we created for our self and we need to deal with it, just like with government.
There are codes for maintaining device(not only codes that you type on phone), that cellular companies get from phone manufactures to make their branded systems, just like their get bunch of other tools that help them doing this.
But its not like SIM-lock code and it cant be thrown around like peace of paper, because:
1) its can be used in bad way(hacking, unlocking etc)
2)it could be used by people that would sell that code to others and make money from it(illegally).
3) It breach of contract that you ACCEPTED buying that phone from t-mobile or as a free handset.
When you bought that phone you accepted agreement that you get with phone AND your operator, that clearly say that you can't mess with your phone system in any way that its said in contract and system it self, and you can use your phone as you get it.
Any modifications break terms of use, and you actually lost any rights to even ask support for help.
My point is that asking support for that code is actually really stupid, because their work doesnt include unlocking devices for modifications that user want to make(illegally looking from contract perspective), As far as device is not damaged or doesnt have problems, you actually have no reason write to them.
Its like going to car dealer where you bought car, and ask to remove engine because you want to put there new one... They totally dont care because this is not part of deal you made with them and its just nothing more than breaking regulations.
It is forum about modifications of phones, but we actually all make silent agreement that we KNOW that we can lost warranty and dont have rights for official support when we modify our phones. I think you forgot about that
Agreements have Caveats
Hi Akinaro,
Thank you for your reply. You are of course correct in what you have pointed out concerning contracts and agreements. It is something of which we all (well, most of us) are aware and accept as a matter of course. But as the title of this response indicates, these agreements are a two-way street.
You have made a number of false assumptions in your post. That's OK. Perhaps I wasn't clear and gave you the wrong impression. Let me start now by saying that dealing with customer and tech support on these issues was not 'stupid'. You are NOT correct in presuming or insinuating that I have forgotten anything about the nature of these agreements, that I have entered into any binding agreements in bad faith, that I have broken any binding agreements, that I were considering breaking any binding agreements or that I might encouraging others to break any binding agreements.
In this case, the phone in question is not subject to a warranty agreement, a purchase agreement or even a use agreement. It has been superseded in all aspects by another phone. It is fully and completely my property. However it does not maintain any monetary value, as the screen is broken and the cost of the repair exceeds the value of the device. It's only value is in re-purposing it or using it for R&D. In it's currently locked state, the potential for both is limited.
When dealing with both the OEM and the carrier's tech support departments, I enumerated all of the conditions detailed above. I informed them that my interests in unlocking the device were personal and developmental in nature. In this they're responses were sympathetic and even conciliatory. We ALL understood that there was no breach of contractual terms taking place. Their actions in dealing with me confirm this simple fact. Plus, it is in their collective best interests to support independent R&D, even on older devices, as I'm sure you are aware. The reasons are manifold and beyond the scope of this OP post.
I apologize if I was unclear: I never at any time asked that either of these entities reveal to me the confidential and proprietary codes that they use to flash locked phones. My point was simply that I knew that they existed; that they knew I knew; and that they could accomplish my request to flash my phone if they chose to do so. It is simply negotiating.
Both corporate entities have graciously met me half-way in my efforts to unlock the bootloader. T-Mobile reactivated the SIM for the express purpose of allowing the service call that disclosed the bootloader could NOT be unlocked by the normal software methods available to the user. They didn't have to do that and I am grateful. Sony has developed a comprehensive online method for determining and delivering unlock codes to their phones that can be unlocked in this manner. Again, I am grateful to them for going this far. But this is not the same thing as unlocking my phone. Both of them have the means and methods available to do so. It is their choice to do so or not to do so. That is why you should call and negotiate. The worst that can happen (if you haven't broken any contracts or voided your warranty) is that they will say no.
I am perfectly within my rights to be disappointed that I didn't accomplish my goal. Likewise, it is completely understandable for me to wonder why they haven't fully implemented a plan to unlock all 4.3 'Zs'. I can even complain about it if I want. But I would rather that people smarter than I offer up new tactics and strategies to try. I don't want to give up just yet.
Akinaro said:
This is what you call company's politic, and people who work for it need to fallow this politic, even if its bad for consumer.
This world that we created for our self and we need to deal with it, just like with government.
There are codes for maintaining device(not only codes that you type on phone), that cellular companies get from phone manufactures to make their branded systems, just like their get bunch of other tools that help them doing this.
But its not like SIM-lock code and it cant be thrown around like peace of paper, because:
1) its can be used in bad way(hacking, unlocking etc)
2)it could be used by people that would sell that code to others and make money from it(illegally).
3) It breach of contract that you ACCEPTED buying that phone from t-mobile or as a free handset.
When you bought that phone you accepted agreement that you get with phone AND your operator, that clearly say that you can't mess with your phone system in any way that its said in contract and system it self, and you can use your phone as you get it.
Any modifications break terms of use, and you actually lost any rights to even ask support for help.
My point is that asking support for that code is actually really stupid, because their work doesnt include unlocking devices for modifications that user want to make(illegally looking from contract perspective), As far as device is not damaged or doesnt have problems, you actually have no reason write to them.
Its like going to car dealer where you bought car, and ask to remove engine because you want to put there new one... They totally dont care because this is not part of deal you made with them and its just nothing more than breaking regulations.
It is forum about modifications of phones, but we actually all make silent agreement that we KNOW that we can lost warranty and dont have rights for official support when we modify our phones. I think you forgot about that
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Sorry, but my point is still valid.
You still asking support, that is made for helping with damaged/inoperative devices in way as guarantee say it, for unsupported access to device that is not part of ANY agreement that you accepted buying this phone.
People you talked with can be nice or not, can understand that its personal and for developing purpose. Its all doesnt matter because its company politic.
Even if I support full access to device that you bought(after all ITS YOURS) in other way I know that more than half of people that would see that they have access to it, they would start messing with it and then whine that their phones doesnt work.
In fact, actually damn good part of post on XDA is such whining of people that messed their phone and now they cry that it doesnt work and ask for help, and saddest part is that they never learn lesson from it so its never ending story.
So again, asking support for unlocking your phone, as far as its not SIM-lock, its useless and just silly.
You can ask technician from support if he could do this "on the side, out of records", but you would need +10 charisma for that if you dont know him, or some cash, that for most of time work. I actually loots of time just paid technician to make it on the side, especially when you dont need to wait few days for phone, few minutes, few hours and they fix/unlock your phone without a problem.
Or just find someone who would help you unlock it in different way... but XZ is just old and not "trendy" so no one care anymore and its hard to find anyone here.
OK Akinaro. That's enough with the ad hominem attacks. You have accused me of everything from trying to steal company secrets to unethical breaches of contractual agreements. All I did was try to negotiate some assistance and report on my progress.
Point 1. I am still a long term customer of my carrier. They encourage me to seek their help. So I don't care if you like it or not. What you characterize as abuse or illegal behavior, THEY characterize as completely acceptable.
Point 2. I am a consumer of the OEM's products. They encourage me to seek their help. So I don't care if you like it or not. What you characterize as abuse or illegal behavior, THEY characterize as completely acceptable.
Point 3. This is a development forum. My OP is within bounds and my responses to you have been civil. So I don't care if you like it or not. What you characterize as abuse or illegal behavior, THEY characterize as completely acceptable.
So far, you have accused me of everything from unethical acts and intentions to stupidity and whining. You haven't said anything of any real value. You haven't contributed any constructive ideas how I might get them to help. Nor have you been able to substantiate your wild accusations with anything that resemble facts or logic. So no, you haven't made a single valid point.
You realize that Im just writing obvious things? Because idea of asking official support for unlocking bootloader is just weird.
You can be mad that from your perspective my point is not valid.... because core of your question contain no fricking point at all.
You asked support for unlocking: They said they dont do this.
In your phone manual there is mention: "Any change or modification not expressly approved by Sony may void the user's authority to operate the equipment.", and I think access to bootloader just to have fun with kernel is part of that "modification"
There is about 1000 topic about bootloader on XDA, and they all mention the same thing: if it say no, its no. Simple.
So what you expect them to do? What you expect from XDA when you made this topic? All we can say is obvious thing that everyone know: ts not possible, especially with help of official support, that is not made for that.
Before you even bought your phone you should think and check your device, I always ask to turn phone on before buy it, its a matter of typing *#*#service#*#* to check it, its about 9sec to find bootloader section.
You can be mad at me, Sony or Obama, or anyone who is trendy right now, No one care. All what I write, is obvious things that everyone known.
Noob Friendly.
Hello again Akinaro,
While I am absolutely sure that you have a great deal of technical knowledge about phones (far more than I), it is a poor excuse for rude behavior, engaging in character assassination, making baseless assumptions or libelous accusations. A quick read through your post reveals a bias that is based entirely on a false perception and not the facts. So please allow me to address these directly.
You said, "You asked support for unlocking: They said they dont do this."
FACT: Some T-Mobile Xperia Z phone have a bootloader that IS unlockable (something of which you are well aware). The "*#*#service#*#*" service proves the point. Furthermore, they will supply you with a link to the OEM developers website that will unlock your bootloader while giving you detailed instructions on how to go about it. So NO! I said nothing of the sort.
You said, "In your phone manual there is mention: 'Any change or modification not expressly approved by Sony may void the user's authority to operate the equipment.'"
FACT: That's not what 'express approval' is, means or implies. Sony's assistance to developers in unlocking the bootloader of their devices disproves your unfounded assumptions. It is prima facie evidence of Sony's explicit approval. There are things that a developer can do to an unlocked phone that are either legal or illegal or acceptable and unacceptable. Examples:
1.) Modifying a phone's operating system for purposes such as changing the look and feel of the device, for automation or for the addition of certain desirable features found in other OS releases is (within certain bounds); Acceptable.
2.) Modifying the device to circumvent regulatory restrictions or carrier use agreements?; Not Acceptable.
My point to the OP was that they DO unlock SOME Xperia Z phones regardless of model; that they DO provide assistance in doing so; but that they CAN unlock them all and that they don't explain why the won't. My point is that there is an underlying factor that remains unexplained and I thought that an explanation was worth pursuing. DID YOU NOT GET THAT? I consider this question interesting and the answers murky at best. Why some and not all? Had I NOT asked them why and why not, that would have been stupid. Had I not sought clarification here at a forum that is dedicated to developers, that would have been stupid. Expecting that the OP would have been answered with rational discussion or friendly advice: OBVIOUSLY STUPID.
Alas, I am not mad at you for having your opinion no matter how misguided. I will ALSO refrain from calling you names or implying that, your position, your actions, or your opinions are 'stupid', 'pointless' or 'illegal'. If you want to discuss the topic, fine. Otherwise, please cut the crap. I'll cop to being ignorant. Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity, not so much.
Stupid is NOT trying to remedy ignorance by seeking answers. You don't like the OP? Then go read another. You want to just be hostile? It say a lot about you - not me.
Akinaro said:
You realize that Im just writing obvious things? Because idea of asking official support for unlocking bootloader is just weird.
You can be mad that from your perspective my point is not valid.... because core of your question contain no fricking point at all.
You asked support for unlocking: They said they dont do this.
In your phone manual there is mention: "Any change or modification not expressly approved by Sony may void the user's authority to operate the equipment.", and I think access to bootloader just to have fun with kernel is part of that "modification"
There is about 1000 topic about bootloader on XDA, and they all mention the same thing: if it say no, its no. Simple.
So what you expect them to do? What you expect from XDA when you made this topic? All we can say is obvious thing that everyone know: ts not possible, especially with help of official support, that is not made for that.
Before you even bought your phone you should think and check your device, I always ask to turn phone on before buy it, its a matter of typing *#*#service#*#* to check it, its about 9sec to find bootloader section.
You can be mad at me, Sony or Obama, or anyone who is trendy right now, No one care. All what I write, is obvious things that everyone known.
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Thread closed at the request of the OP.