Related
I have been going back and forth for a bit on wether or not to post this thread, but I think it is only fair for us testers and to post our thoughts and concerns. Mods, I apologize for posting a political thread in a technical forum, but this seems to be an applicable and thread worthy discussion So here it goes:
If anyone other than me (and the 5 trillion noobs on this site) have been following the 'black revolution', does anything seem funny about this whole situation with JJ leaving? First, he goes to htc-devs claiming that he refuses to deal with all of the stupid questions and double posts. This is understandable, and I would not be posting this thread if the situation had stopped there. However, the htc-devs forum had a spring-up new users when they found out JJ had moved (including me), but then ubruptly died off after he moved to 4winmoble. Coincidence...I think not.
Even though I personally think that black3.x is not as stable as 2.5, I highly regard JJ roms and I think that he is one of the top developers out. This post is not trash his work. However, I registered for 4wnmobile (grrrr....again) and checked it out to find that:
Is it me or is this forum slow as F***?
Is is me or are there more ads than posts?
Isnt it convenient that a certain developer got his own sub-forum (unlike the other forums where his work was previously posted)
Is it me or upon checking this forum do you see the same noob posts that were seen in xda?
So, my question is...
If our highly regarded (not being sarcastic) chef has moved due to the noobular influx, why did he not stay at htc-devs where he had mod control do delete these posts? Why did he perpetuate his problem by going to 4winmob?
Has JJ gone "hollywood"?
I have no idea....
$$$$$$$$!!!!
excuse me.... must be my turrets acting up again...
Seriously... perhaps JJ can elaborate.
at least your turrets only spits out a sentence. mine spits out 5 paragraphs
I usually stay out of these threads but I mean honestly, who gives a ****? let him do what he wants...
I see it like this:
Everyone has their choices. The ones you choose make who you are.
I personnally keep from postng as much as possible, not to be in the swarm of questions and be reffered to as a "noob". I have read and read the forums to upgrade my devices and fix them when I screw them up. If everyone would just read it would help out a lot.
CUSTEL said:
I usually stay out of these threads but I mean honestly, who gives a ****? let him do what he wants...
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Agreed. Let this subject die a quiet death.
There are plenty of us left who enjoy this forum and the work that everyone puts in. Chefs, people who share knowledge and answer posts. Noobs are mainly a problem when more experianced people get frustrated by them and start flame wars.
Just ignore them.
XDA still rocks.
Precisely... People come and go, it's natural progression... =)
Sleuth255 said:
I have no idea....
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Sleuth255 said:
$$$$$$$$!!!!
excuse me.... must be my turrets acting up again...
Seriously... perhaps JJ can elaborate.
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Hi Slueth,
[sarcasm]
Great moderation by the way in the hermes forum.....
[/sarcarsm/]
No NOT $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
i was given my own sub forum which i can completely moderate. I have also got two more moderators with me.
What is this crap about "Hollywood" posted by the member who started the thread? Get real dude, if u dont like then move on.
I also decided that having a general chit chat area on 4WM for people to get to know one another as well as to blow off steam- it is a good idea as it will help keep the tech discussions clean.
Now why dont u all just quit it,,,, for goodness sakes,,,, u are all making a big deal of this.
Yes the site has advertisements as 4winmobile.com is also a comprehensive product review site - WHO CARES!!!!! xda-devs has adds also.
Get over it and move on.....
And by the way, i dont make any money from 4WM - incase you were all wondering..... I just moved there as having control of my own forum seems like an excellent idea since MODERATION on this FORUM stinks!!!!!
Maybe if admin here gave users the power to moderate their threads things will be different. But WHO CARES now - MOVE ON!
Sick of this site, full of,,,, as has been put many times ****WITS!
@Peezy
Quote: Is it me or is this forum slow as F***?
Yes it has been slow at times DUE TO THE DDOS attacks - gee im wondering where they are coming from.
Really professional members on XDA-developers.
JJ, I thought you had your own forum to moderate? I have to say, I have healthy amount of respect for what you've done for the community with the ROMs that you've cooked. In fact, I used to run Black 2.5 on my 8525. I've noticed one of the complaints of people moved forums away from XDA was that that there are too many people posting useless messages like, "WOW~ cool. Downloading now! Thanks man~" Which is strange... Because I thought that was in-line with the spirit of the community. But regardless, I'd like to say thank you for your hard work.
But as you've said repeated, it's time for you to move on. It's too bad that you were frustrated with the moderation in this forum. As forums become popular, they tend to attract lot of n00bs (like myself)...and considering most moderators (like yourself) do not do this full time, I'm sure it's not an easy task. I do, along with many users, appreciate all the hard work. Even if they are not perfect...since I'm not the one who's doing the hard work...I can try to give bit of suggestions here and there...but I really can't complain. I really wish things stayed here on the XDA forums. But too bad things came down to this. But yes...it's time for the community to move on.
I, for one, will stay on XDA. I guess that's my choice. I feel like community is what we make of it. We can always uproot and start a new one...but doesn't change that fact that we owe something to our roots. I've learned everything about my 8525 on this forum. I've never posted much...but I always read and read. It's just in my nature. I figured things out on my own with all the helpful suggestions from other members. So far, I've managed to not brick mine. So I do feel certain sense of loyalty. Correct me if I'm wrong...didn't you get started on these boards as well?
I agree that you've given back to the community infinitely more than I. But I'm still part of this community...and I think I have the right to say that your posts only tarnish your image and past accomplishments on these boards...and bring everybody down. Now that you are a moderator...I've read few posts on your boards about how you'll ban a user for a single misstep. Good luck in that. I guess that's how you get rid of n00bs like me. But being elitist can take you so far. It's just a phone. Yup. A phone. People will drop off as they move away from Hermes and get new phones. Then we are all back to being n00bs again...including you.
Good luck with your board.
Ouch or Wow?
jellycow said:
JJ, I thought you had your own forum to moderate? I have to say, I have healthy amount of respect for what you've done for the community with the ROMs that you've cooked. In fact, I used to run Black 2.5 on my 8525. I've noticed one of the complaints of people moved forums away from XDA was that that there are too many people posting useless messages like, "WOW~ cool. Downloading now! Thanks man~" Which is strange... Because I thought that was in-line with the spirit of the community. But regardless, I'd like to say thank you for your hard work.
But as you've said repeated, it's time for you to move on. It's too bad that you were frustrated with the moderation in this forum. As forums become popular, they tend to attract lot of n00bs (like myself)...and considering most moderators (like yourself) do not do this full time, I'm sure it's not an easy task. I do, along with many users, appreciate all the hard work. Even if they are not perfect...since I'm not the one who's doing the hard work...I can try to give bit of suggestions here and there...but I really can't complain. I really wish things stayed here on the XDA forums. But too bad things came down to this. But yes...it's time for the community to move on.
I, for one, will stay on XDA. I guess that's my choice. I feel like community is what we make of it. We can always uproot and start a new one...but doesn't change that fact that we owe something to our roots. I've learned everything about my 8525 on this forum. I've never posted much...but I always read and read. It's just in my nature. I figured things out on my own with all the helpful suggestions from other members. So far, I've managed to not brick mine. So I do feel certain sense of loyalty. Correct me if I'm wrong...didn't you get started on these boards as well?
I agree that you've given back to the community infinitely more than I. But I'm still part of this community...and I think I have the right to say that your posts only tarnish your image and past accomplishments on these boards...and bring everybody down. Now that you are a moderator...I've read few posts on your boards about how you'll ban a user for a single misstep. Good luck in that. I guess that's how you get rid of n00bs like me. But being elitist can take you so far. It's just a phone. Yup. A phone. People will drop off as they move away from Hermes and get new phones. Then we are all back to being n00bs again...including you.
Good luck with your board.
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I'm going to guess that by the lack responses that I'm the first to blink, take a deep breath, and decide to say wow, or ouch. Wow for the last post and ouch for it as well. Whoever you are JELLYCOW, that's the most eloquent, constructively insightfull, and conclusively solid summary I think I've ever read in my life. Thank you. Well said; Top Notch; Classy to say the least.
So to JJ... Keep it real yo. As devolpers go, You're work is stellar, and I'm addicted. I went Black... and the only back I ever will go, is gonna be XDA Devs... I started with my Blue Angel and followed the phones as they came out. But my Hermes... it's heart & soul are from you. It's one of the many handsets that run your OS's, past present & yet to come. Keep doing your ****, we all gotta be good at something. This is what you do... you do it well. Your fans and testers, we will follow... Thanks bro.. Peace
NOW WILL SOMEBODY GET JELLYCOW A DAMN PUBLIC RELATIONS JOB WHILE YOU CAN STILL AFFORD THEM... CAUSE THAT ONE IS GONNA GO FAR... THAT LAST POST IS THE PROOF.
Now i'm going to suck down half a bottle of Hershy's Chocolate Syrup, have a glass of Almond Milk, and tuck my hermes into bed with me so it can wake me up in the morning... cause I'm passing out!!!
[And role credits... that's all folks]
-DJBlu
Well said
Agreed, well said JellyCow. I'm also a Noob, read daily and post infrequently and an avid Black 2.5 user. No question at all that JJ is very talented and deserves a lot of credit...though I think some people go overboard with the brown nosing. He kind of reminds me of some of my coder friends. Extremely talented but volatile. Sometimes extremely talented or tech savvy people just are not equipped with the personality or patience to deal with noobs. Often that only comes with maturity and age. Either way..try not to take yourself too seriously and remember that you started doing this for FUN.
Please, could someone move this PRECIOUS thread full of WONDERFULL non-requested advices to the off-topic section?
... I'm trying to read about WM6 ... thanks!
N1kko, L2readthruthreads.
Having downloaded most of JJs delicacies, I wondered what happened to him and his goodies.
This gives some closure.
All the best JJ.
Ok people, get over it.. like said before its the nature of the beast, people move on and new people take over... just because JJ is making a decision to move on doesnt mean that other people will stop cooking. Its not like this is the first time that a chef/developer has left to have a board they can moderate on due to frustrations from other members.
And who cares what his motivation to move on is?!? i mean honestly?!? JJ is going to do whats best for JJ, he is a big boy and can do what he wants. Its not like he is disappearing or quitting cooking, just moving. He was kind enough to let everyone know where he is going so you can join him, but that doesnt mean you have to abandon XDA either.. everyone has the freedom of choice, so make a choice and quit complaining.
Also i have had many conversations with JJ, and i like JJ, i personally dont want to see him go, but i also understand his frustration. This frustration is a double edged sword.. On one hand we have a developer that is good for the board, cooking roms, etc.. On the other hand we had a frustrated developer that was being abusive to noobs and other members which was making the boards harder to moderate...
JJ, i have an amazing amount of respect for you, and you know that, your a great guy and i do consider you a friend personally, but from a moderator standpoint in regards to the poor moderation; you were part of the problem just as much as the st00pid n00b questions that frustrated you.
With all that being said, i wish you well and hope to have future conversations with you!
Well, I cant say that the backlash was not expected, especially from JJ. I think he has every right to explain his concerns, and I am happy that he did. Again, for people who dont know how to FULLY read a post, I respect JJ's work and equally respect his talent as a developer. My reasoning for even posting this thread (sorry again mods for not posting in 'off-topic') is to give US tester a chance to air out our concerns.
We spend a LOT of time reading and learning how to get the best out of our devices. We pride ourselves in being memebers of this great site, and we pride the work that is published here. We all know that there are some problems with the noobs, and I agree with you shogunmark that this is just natural progression. What is NOT, however, is our ability to deal with it. We have all flamed before, and for those of you who have taken time to even ponder if there is a better solution, I thank you.
Im not here to flame JJ, that would be stupid seeing that I am currently using his ROM. I posted this thread to stir up the pot, and also to address our 'roots'. To speak out for us loyal xda-followers. I have once thought about finding another home, and I'm sure most of us have thought that too. I feel stupid for even attempting to follow JJ around the world for his stuff, and again I'm sure some of you feel the same way too.
The fact of the matter is that I started here, and this is where I am gonna stay. I thank all of you who share the same sense of passion and resolve to make sure that we keep xda the best site around!
It's my belief that this needed to be aired out. Thus the reason for my somewhat tongue-in-cheek initial post.
XDA developers forums are having issues not because of the way we run this board but because we're currently offering WM6 while the rest of the world is still running WM5.
History repeats itself. Have a look through the archives and you'll see astounding similarities when XDA was first to release WM5 while the rest of the world was still running 2003.
We will never silence the voice of a n00b here.
To all,
I don't really know what is going on in here, why you guys are fighting, or why you simply can't get along. We have been acting a lot in here only to see nothing more than constant flaming, finger pointing, and the such... all behaviors that are not allowed in XDA grounds (see rule 2).
Over the last week or so there have been constant comments, complains, and tons of issues coming from this section. There have been a bunch of moderators in here already, and it seems that this has no end in sight. As far as I am concerned, banning is a useful tool, which is better avoided if not absolutely needed... and I believe this to be the case.
Having said this, I would like to offer the following approach to solve the issue with Master (and any other issues that you may have in your minds)... A Town Hall meeting type of thread, which will be grounds for discussion of current issues (you can see the thread here). I did this in the Hero CDMA section several months ago and everything turned out rather well since people were able to talk and discuss issues in a civilized manner.
Here are the rules:
- The thread will only remain open for discussion for a certain period of time (I did the last one for 8 hours).
- No flaming/trolling/rudeness/cursing will be allowed.
- No banning will occur.
- Irrelevant posts will be automatically deleted.
- The thread will be heavily monitored by one or more moderators.
If I get enough people agreeing to participate via this poll, I will then schedule a time.
This is will be a final resource before banning begins. I am willing to put up the time if you guys are willing to cooperate.
Let me know what you all think.
From Papa_Smurf151 (thought of this message to be more universal, so I changed a thing or two to make it fit here ),
OK u guys...I know everyone is tired of all the drama on here. I have been talking to one of the mods through pm and gave a suggestion for a town hall meeting to discuss the problems as of late. The mod agreed that he and hopefully other mods would be willing to open a thread where we can discuss these issues. There will be no banning for what is said in this meeting but with a mod present and engaging in convo the tone needs to stay clean or semi at least. Failure would result in post being deleted. There will be rules that the mods what followed but its to keep the pease.
Look this cdma community has been split for a little while now. U can feel the tention in some post. Its time to stop the flaming and the trolling. This is not just about the Master thing even though that's what sent all of this overboard.
The mods only see part of this community and its the ugly side. They are harsh cause they are misinformed about certain people and certain actions. This is our opportunity to have a united voice and share how things really are and ideas on how to remedy them
Its time to reunite as the amazing community this used to be and get back to what really matters.
Feel free to comment. Please keep it clean. The more votes in the poll the better.
The meeting would be at a set time and heavily monitored then closed once alotted time had past. Please join and enjoy.
This is not the meeting. It is just a poll to let mods know we are serious and that we can behaive.
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I think this is a great idea. I've been at XDA for some time now and i've never seen a forum get this out of hand. This will be a great opportunity for people to get things off their shoulder.
I say bring the ban hammer down. It may seem harsh but it is the only way to make people behave. I vote no town hall and more banning for repeated violations of the forum rules.
I like the concept & I'll participate if it happens, but I think jnutz is right. People are blatantly ignoring the rules simply because nothing happens to them if they don't.
People who like TeamWhiskey/Eugene/Master/[Anyone else I missed]... go into the threads of the ones they don't like/use and flame away and cause threads for an active ROM to be closed! This is insane!
I don't remember people being this rude and disrespectful of everyone else when I was looking up information for an old Windows Mobile phone or when I actually joined after I got my G1.
Maybe a combination of both approaches? Ban the people who are repeat offenders now and have the town hall meeting for the ones who aren't as big of disruptions?
We ban when needed be. This is a more civilized approach at trying to work things out with more seasoned members. I have seen long time seniors in here just flat out flaming the heck out of new members for no reason (just posting in the wrong place gives no one the right to call someone a retard)
As Ez said, its a more civilized method in which we can communicate openly with the Members of the fora in order to workout issues we have all witnessed. The Town Hall will be monitored by the moderators (myself included) in order to make sure we stay on topic and so that it can be of actual use for all of us. These town halls allow us to bring light onto issues users have been facing along with us moderators being able to give input and action ideas that have a general consensus. If you wish to see one that has happened before and see the outcome you can look here. As Ez told me, the previous one turned the whole forum around 180 degrees and the users in there are way better now. I look forward to this if we have one.
This is a good idea.. I've been a frequent visitor of xda since I have a G1. XDA has been my information resource for my devices (G1, mytouch 3G, mytouch slide, and Vibrant).. I have made donations also to some devs for their great work.. but I never bother to post questions or suggest solutions because of the trolling and flaming going on.. It would be very nice if everything will be put in order.. This is my first post..
I felt really bad when Eugene left XDA.. great dev.. but things are not so good..
Great Idea and ASAP
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
Same, same...no pun intended on shame, shame...
oka1 said:
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
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While I agree with almost all that has been posted here, let's not over look that the number of ROMs and more to the point the updating of said same gives much of the grief, IMHO....
More is not always better....wile I have learned so very much these past two years - I understand, have, nd do support other bards as the "less than sterling behaviors" here within has driven many away.
I too wish to be of help so count me in...
here.david said:
While I agree with almost all that has been posted here, let's not over look that the number of ROMs and more to the point the updating of said same gives much of the grief, IMHO....
More is not always better....wile I have learned so very much these past two years - I understand, have, nd do support other bards as the "less than sterling behaviors" here within has driven many away.
I too wish to be of help so count me in...
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oka1 said:
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
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Thanks for the interest in helping but the moderators such as myself and Egz will be watching this (if it happens) along with a few others, thanks though
jnutz said:
I say bring the ban hammer down. It may seem harsh but it is the only way to make people behave. I vote no town hall and more banning for repeated violations of the forum rules.
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civilized Shmivilized hasn't worked so far.
I say, BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
who's with me!
I would definitely participate, i am fed up with what i see around this forum, i've seriously considered taking down the vibrant bible, after seeing how some people act on this forum. I like XDA and i like what it offers but if people cant take what it offerers and turn it into something productive, just leave. A lot of what goes on here resembles petty high school drama, take that **** to Facebook, not a development forum!
This won't solve anything. People need to realize that people who created this awesome site along with the ROMs, mods, and themes and etc. are doing this on their own free will and time, they are NOT getting paid...
People need to learn a little courtesy before anything.
/thread
almyz125 said:
I would definitely participate, i am fed up with what i see around this forum, i've seriously considered taking down the vibrant bible, after seeing how some people act on this forum. I like XDA and i like what it offers but if people cant take what it offerers and turn it into something productive, just leave.
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I doubt taking down the bible would prove any worth, if anything it would harm the people that use it, and the assholes on this forum wouldn't even notice. Warnings and bans need to be given to those who violate the rules.
Do you guys really think that the Cancer that is eating away at XDA is going to come to a town hall meeting?
Honestly, Do You?
Yes but..........
scrizz said:
civilized Shmivilized hasn't worked so far.
I say, BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
who's with me!
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The punks that should be banned... ok, ban them... then what ? they change their name and are back on different name same ****......... ok then what then? ban the isp?..........that algorithm too complex to manage so, although I totally agree with you, I do not see a practical way.......... but yes, ban them anyway for good measure. Then, as a collective body we would need to shun them as well. If people get no response from the forum members, sooner or later, they get the message and move on.....
Options
I would say, let's fo the town hall, and after that maybe before banning could you kind of redirect the offenders for let's say two or three days for half an hour every login to the rules page?
If that does not work either, then i would be all up for the french revolution tactic. off with their heads!
scrizz said:
Do you guys really think that the Cancer that is eating away at XDA is going to come to a town hall meeting?
Honestly, Do You?
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Hey Scrizz,
They have worked in the past even for Forums that are like the Vibrant's, look here
If it's something that has worked in the past, it's worth a try. I don't think the "Cancer" will attend but it may help the non-problem users come up with better ways to deal with problems.
It might help and it certainly can't hurt. I vote yes.
egzthunder1 said:
We ban when needed be. This is a more civilized approach at trying to work things out with more seasoned members. I have seen long time seniors in here just flat out flaming the heck out of new members for no reason (just posting in the wrong place gives no one the right to call someone a retard)
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Gotcha. I was (wrongfully) under the impression that this was a "is this a good idea" thread, so I basically answered 'no, you should enforce the rules', but it seems to be a "we want to do this because it's helped calm things down in the past, will you help us" thread.
And in answer to the question that you actually asked (rather than the question I inferred), if the timing doesn't conflict with anything in real life, I would definitely like to be a part of this discussion. The sooner it happens, the better because things are way out of hand.
Hi Folks
Thought I’d post a quick message to introduce myself
I’m Chris - your new Forum Moderator
I’m here keep an eye on things and help where I can. We all benefit when the forum runs smoothly and everyone helps each other.
Potted history of me:
Married with 5 Kids – first grandchild on the way (it keeps me busy!!)
I’ve been a member on XDA since 2007. I’ve learned, asked questions (yes, some in the wrong place), and I’ve developed for phones too.
As I’ve seen both sides. I know what it’s like to want help, and what it’s like to post your work and get flamed
Everyone makes mistakes and everyone deserves help so I tend to take the soft view over issues and try to help. Everyone needs to follow the rules though
I don’t tend to post a lot as I’m a fan of listening first, talking second.
Even though i'll try to keep an eye open i cant spot every issue without help
If you’ve any questions or any issues, drop me a message, (email, Skype etc) . I’ll get back to you as soon as I can. (Please consider things like time zones, work, sleep, Wife & Kids) it’s not always possible to reply immediately.
please feel free to say ‘Hi’ chatting is part of the community
Look forward to getting to know you
Chris
I can't believe I have to write this post. Not long ago, the Atrix community on XDA-Developers was one of the most civil, respectful, and kind groups out there. Now, it appears new members have either joined and not learned the rules. Or, perhaps the older members forgot the rules. I'm ashamed and sad that the Atrix community let me down.
I will reiterate some of the rules below.
Do not demand things from developers. This may include feature requests for future releases. There is a line between respectfully requesting new features and disrespectfully demanding them. Learn it.
Do not swear on XDA-Developers ever.
Be kind and polite to all members, especially developers.
Be civil. There is a fine line between healthy debate and arguing. Do not cross that line.
Use the report button at the top right of each post to tell the moderation staff (me) that a post breaks the rules.
Do not give nonconstructive criticism to developers.
I agree with almost everything you said, Ken, except the part about this being an Atrix forum problem. From what I've seen, this is a growing problem in all of XDA as new people join the conversations, a growing number of people who feel free to say any damn thing they like without consequence simply because they're hidden behind a handle (without taking into account that there are real people just like them on the other side of their screens). Respectfully, it seems to me that to single out the Atrix forums for this problem -- which they do have, no question about it -- seems rather short-sighted.
MJPollard said:
I agree with almost everything you said, Ken, except the part about this being an Atrix forum problem. From what I've seen, this is a growing problem in all of XDA as new people join the conversations, a growing number of people who feel free to say any damn thing they like without consequence simply because they're hidden behind a handle (without taking into account that there are real people just like them on the other side of their screens). Respectfully, it seems to me that to single out the Atrix forums for this problem -- which they do have, no question about it -- seems rather short-sighted.
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What I meant by that insertion was that the Atrix forum community 8-9 months ago rarely/never behaved this way. The problem isn't necessarily with one forum or with XDA itself. I didn't mean to say that.
You nailed the problem on the head— people on the internet (no matter what forum you visit) will act as if there are no consequences and hide behind their web usernames.
Be civil. There is a fine line between healthy debate and arguing. Do not cross that line.
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The biggest issue, in my opinion.
Aside from the fact that users are often going "I'll donate IF you do this, IF I can have this by then" to developers.
This is more of an XDA Problem in general; with such a large user base, I suppose manners have simply disappeared on the forums.
Anyway, though I can't apologize on behalf of the rude and inconsiderate users you have probably dealt with, I'd like to personally say thank you for dealing with us all.
The demands made on the developers show a complete lack of respect and maturity, in my opinion.
The same should also be applied to fellow users. A little common respect for each other goes a long way. The constant bickering, name calling, and insults gets old fast.
Thanks for addressing this issue, Ken!
Yeah. I think you guys touched on an important point: Treat people on XDA as you would politely in real life.
There are no robots on XDA. Each account has a real person behind it— a real person that can be frustrated, embarrassed, angry, and self-conscious.
you tell'em oldschool!!!
kennethpenn said:
Yeah. I think you guys touched on an important point: Treat people on XDA as you would politely in real life.
There are no robots on XDA. Each account has a real person behind it— a real person that can be frustrated, embarrassed, angry, and self-conscious.
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LoL,I just called you oldschool cuz your one of the if not the original atrix dev but anyways I been apart of the xda community for over a year and just started posting like a couple Weeks ago just so I can help out with whatever I can because of all the help I been getting....just trying to give back like everyone else should be doing .I just wanna say thanks to everyone for the good work and making my phone worth having.
sweetmyke said:
LoL,I just called you oldschool cuz your one of the if not the original atrix dev but anyways I been apart of the xda community for over a year and just started posting like a couple Weeks ago just so I can help out with whatever I can because of all the help I been getting....just trying to give back like everyone else should be doing .I just wanna say thanks to everyone for the good work and making my phone worth having.
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Thanks for your input. Remember, the best way you can help keep our community great is to report people when they step out of line. Happy posting!
Another point which you can add :-
Please note that the devs have a personal life as well and do this for fun or learning new things in there free time. They have a day time job which pays for this hobby.Please respect that.
I apologise for sounding like an old man. I promise you i am not. This kind of thing had been a problem for a long time on Internet forums. Any one remember chat avenue? I believe that this has become more of a problem at xda because even though the site has any moderators their primary concern is technical and intellectual property. This is vital for a site such as this. But maybe there should be more enforcement of the rules of behavior? A couple of friendly warnings and advice and then failing that a tempory suspension. Failing that we trace their ip and send in a team of assassins.
i have to agree with this thread fully, sadly it came to this that it has to be stated so obvious, but some people really use words like "i want to have..." "make this..." and so on expressing rather demands than wishes/suggestions , it is true many users on xda are not native english speaking (me included), but there should be at least some thought put into posting so that it doesnt come out as demands or insults even.
As a non-english speaking dude, I *try* to avoid several expressions that perhaps in my native language may even sound polite, but translating them into english may sound bad, and express myself into simple english instead. If every non-english spoken people around here do the same, it will be easier separate the wheat from the straw...
My joining date don't make justice (at all) over the time I'm enjoying XDA developers' fruits, thus I want to express my most sincere thanks to every each developer and offer my humble help at anyone I can.
Keep doing the incredible job you're doing!!
As a non-native speaker it's not easy to hit the right tone. Most try their best but I think for some its hard to formulate a polite request, feature suggestion or bug report as such in a foreign language. And sometimes it comes out as a forceful command even if unintended.
And yes then there is the problem of individuals who can't even be polite in their own language because they never learned.
Lastly there are life forms who do not want to be polite without cause of beeing provoked.
For the first group I hope you use the principle of benefit of the doubt.
For the second we could try to teach them.
For the third just ban them.
My Story...
If you look at my join date, you'll see that I am also a very new member to these forums.
However, when I started, I was a total noob. So nooby that I got an infraction
I was only 16 and I knew nothing about ADB, editing build.prop's and all sorts; all I knew was how to flash stuff from recovery. I was admittedly a flash-o-holic, using Alien, Aura, DarkSide and Home Base ROM's and continuously switching back and forth.
Yet from this background, I have now created Neutrino ROM. The XDA forums as a community is a really good way to gain knowledge about all sort's of cool stuff. When used properly, it could really bring out the 'developer' inside of people. Creating my ROM was actually much easier than initially expected, and as time went on, I learnt more and more, enabling myself to include cooler and cooler tweaks.
My point is, that when these forums are used properly, it can really change people's lives. I think even Kennethpenn was in a similar situation, as I remember watching a video review of Alien ROM and it said in the description that he was a new developer.
It's a real shame that trolls cause all sorts of issues in the forums. If people respect each other and appreciate the benefits of open-source, then what a community this great community already, will be.
Twist79 said:
As a non-native speaker it's not easy to hit the right tone. Most try their best but I think for some its hard to formulate a polite request, feature suggestion or bug report as such in a foreign language. And sometimes it comes out as a forceful command even if unintended.
And yes then there is the problem of individuals who can't even be polite in their own language because they never learned.
Lastly there are life forms who do not want to be polite without cause of beeing provoked.
For the first group I hope you use the principle of benefit of the doubt.
For the second we could try to teach them.
For the third just ban them.
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Fair enough. If you think your message may be unclear, just make sure to say "English is my second language" or something. I know the feeling. When I speak to people in Spanish, I can accidentally sound rude and not even know it.
I see a Nation flag of the user beside most posts.
If its not US, UK, Australia (please forgive me for not listing all other English native speaking Nation) I just consider it an accident if he was rude.
Twist79 said:
I see a Nation flag of the user beside most posts.
If its not US, UK, Australia (please forgive me for not listing all other English native speaking Nation) I just consider it an accident if he was rude.
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Good point!
Twist79 said:
I see a Nation flag of the user beside most posts.
If its not US, UK, Australia (please forgive me for not listing all other English native speaking Nation) I just consider it an accident if he was rude.
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I fully agree with you, this has happened to me in Simply-android, made a request, but translated into English for the dev sounded bad, I had difficulty explaining that there was an obrigation, but a request ...
ps: is now happening again ....# 1158, # 1159 ....... sometimes it seems they are just waiting for someone to ask for something to start the insults ...
this is very sad ...
I'm glad that you pointed out the fact that some "veterans" of XDA can also be the problem. Some users like to act as the Judge and Jury all by themselves.
Now, I'm not saying I'm completely innocent, sometimes I take my shots at some people that are being malcontent but I do try to help them in that situation. What I have tried doing is to provide assistance with a dose of mild, if not playful, "flaming" just as a friendly reminder of the rules and etiquette. For the most part, I usually get positive responses in those instances. I guess my point is, it might be okay to, every once in awhile, criticize someone as long as you are trying to help and are being positive about it.
I can relate to @Notorious544d about being a n00b. One of my very first posts on XDA was a thread I started in the Development forum asking a question But I was met with positive feedback and a reminder of the rules and I haven't done it again.
Now, if you find yourself in a position where you can't be positive or constructive in your response then either ignore it or report it. Just my 2 cents, hope I didn't step out of bounds on this one.
EDIT: I'm speaking about when interacting with other users and not developers.
kennethpenn said:
I can't believe I have to write this post. Not long ago, the Atrix community on XDA-Developers was one of the most civil, respectful, and kind groups out there. Now, it appears new members have either joined and not learned the rules. Or, perhaps the older members forgot the rules. I'm ashamed and sad that the Atrix community let me down.
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live4nyy said:
I'm glad that you pointed out the fact that some "veterans" of XDA can also be the problem. Some users like to act as the Judge and Jury all by themselves.
Now, I'm not saying I'm completely innocent, sometimes I take my shots at some people that are being malcontent but I do try to help them in that situation. What I have tried doing is to provide assistance with a dose of mild, if not playful, "flaming" just as a friendly reminder of the rules and etiquette. For the most part, I usually get positive responses in those instances. I guess my point is, it might be okay to, every once in awhile, criticize someone as long as you are trying to help and are being positive about it.
I can relate to @Notorious544d about being a n00b. One of my very first posts on XDA was a thread I started in the Development forum asking a question But I was met with positive feedback and a reminder of the rules and I haven't done it again.
Now, if you find yourself in a position where you can't be positive or constructive in your response then either ignore it or report it. Just my 2 cents, hope I didn't step out of bounds on this one.
EDIT: I speaking about when interacting with other users and not developers.
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I hate you!
I keed, I keed.
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
I am trying to figure out why there is suddenly a growing trend of new people on this site and XDA looking for help on the Dell Streak 7.
I am glad for the new flow of people, gives me a reason to keep working, helping others but its frustrating to me to have to explain things several times in the same thread about how to execute commands or what features are working or not work. Answering questions I already answered (4-10 times in a single thread) takes away time I can focus on my actual work.
I am really trying to be patient and help people out, after all they really don't know any better, but the modification community is for those who have some basic grasps on Android system, Linux, and how to execute commands. If you really don't know what somethings are, its sometimes best for you to not mess with it. I'm not trying to sound condescending but when I tell you to fastboot flash something, take the time to go look it up on Google. It has a wealth of knowledge.
75% of my Android ROM development is done through Google. Seriously. I look at others works (from Google searches), examine it, see how it would apply to our devices, and adapt any changes if I have to. The other 25% of my work is intuition, logic, and knowledge.
I'm going to try to remind everyone to be patient and understanding but if I get frustrated with you, please don't hold it against me. I have a lot on my plate right now in my life and I'm handling two projects, my family, school work and two jobs.
Oh yeah, stop asking me if a feature is working or not, or ETA's. Seriously.....I will punch you.
Oh, and I plan on making a new video series, hopefully with better image quality and clearer instructions on how to flash ROM's via fastboot, CWR/TWRP, and NVFlash.
giveen said:
Oh, and I plan on making a new video series, hopefully with better image quality and clearer instructions on how to flash ROM's via fastboot, CWR/TWRP, and NVFlash.
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Giveen, what if I create a post with links to a lot of the information and give you a break? All I need is permission from people to post links to the needed information and then have it stickied.
Sent from a Hacked, Modded and customized Streak 7
giveen said:
Oh yeah, stop asking me if a feature is working or not, or ETA's. Seriously.....I will punch you.
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you're welcome to start using my sig' to continue getting this point across if need be... it gets a bit frustrating when ROM development takes up an immense quantity of your free time, I currently only get about an hour a day to do anything I didnt fit into my routine and even then that is pushing it when you sometimes have to stay back at work due to a server crashing or something else of the likes, in which case it starts to take away sleep then it leads to deprivation of sleep (which doesnt help when you have a nagging family member as well as a nagging target audience).
so we ask the public please be lenient with devs, we have a lot of sh!t to put up with already without you putting more expectations and pressure on us, if you insult us that just makes us want to walk away from public releases (this has been the case with a few devs I know).
also further notes for the n00bs, watch the f***ing n00b video, read the forum rules and FFS use the search feature!
giveen said:
I am trying to figure out why there is suddenly a growing trend of new people on this site and XDA looking for help on the Dell Streak 7.
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It may be because the streak 7 has passed below the price point that means some of the larger bulk-buy discount internet outfits are pushing them out.
I bought one from one of these for my daughter on the grounds it was a good brand for a decent screen size under a hundred bucks.
Please bear with the noobs; yes, it's frustrating when people ask the same question over and over; but the reality is that that happens ALL over xda. In other threads, the devs typically leave answering the repetitive crap to the hacks (I.e., people - like me - who can read but either can't or don't develop) to avoid distraction and frustration.
Please also rest assured that, no matter how frustrated you are with them(/us), they(/we) are enormously thankful for the time, effort, and skill you donate, as they(/we) are keenly aware that they(/we) will benefit from your hard work.
m.is.for.michael said:
It may be because the streak 7 has passed below the price point that means some of the larger bulk-buy discount internet outfits are pushing them out.
I bought one from one of these for my daughter on the grounds it was a good brand for a decent screen size under a hundred bucks.
Please bear with the noobs; yes, it's frustrating when people ask the same question over and over; but the reality is that that happens ALL over xda. In other threads, the devs typically leave answering the repetitive crap to the hacks (I.e., people - like me - who can read but either can't or don't develop) to avoid distraction and frustration.
Please also rest assured that, no matter how frustrated you are with them(/us), they(/we) are enormously thankful for the time, effort, and skill you donate, as they(/we) are keenly aware that they(/we) will benefit from your hard work.
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It is good to see others getting the the streak7. But there are a few threads that have the info people need. Noobs don't wanna read or use the the search at all. And they wanna jump into the dev threads. I know some things can be confusing but read ,search and even look at YouTube. But please read before posting
Sent from my Inspire 4G using xda premium
s14evil said:
It is good to see others getting the the streak7. But there are a few threads that have the info people need. Noobs don't wanna read or use the the search at all. And they wanna jump into the dev threads. I know some things can be confusing but read ,search and even look at YouTube. But please read before posting
Sent from my Inspire 4G using xda premium
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I'm not disagreeing with your observations, and I agree that people who ask without searching are frustrating and distracting; but really it comes down to a personal approach whether you accept that noobs will usually ask first or expect them to search.
We've all been there before, sometimes multiple times, but we tend to forget that being a noob can be pretty overwhelming; there's all this info, but much of it is confusing and full of jargon. Device-specific jargon, even. Yes, noobs must be willing to learn; but they need people to teach them, not scare them off.
Leaving a post for someone who has the energy to answer is much less frustrating (all round) than firing back "SEARCH FOR THE LOVE OF PETE, NOOB".
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium