Related
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/17/htc_chipset_anger/
Was kind of surprised to see this front page on the register.
rascalion said:
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/17/htc_chipset_anger/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tha ball is starting to roll. great.
They've asked for people to let them know if they've had a problem. Best we all in get in touch, methinks. If they get another 4000 people complaining directly to them, it'll be more negative press for HTC, and it's more likely that they'll have to do something about it.
this is great. and other news sites checking their competitors will hopefuly se the post and write about it more.
Tweakers.net reports the same problem on the frontpage.
It's a rather big community for The Netherlands and Belgium.
I hope more prestigious websites will follow just to make HTC clear it's a major problem which needs a good solution right away.
Their trying to stall for time, but great response so far!
Absolutely fabulous! Great support so far from other major Pocket PC websites. I'm delighted already. At this pace HTC will have to do a lot better than to ask for stupid e-mails detailing what has been made very clear to them already!
Don't fall for the time wasting e-mails friends. If you do send one, why not simply direct them to http://www.htcclassaction.org/ for a detailed explanation of our problems encountered.
If we do this any other way, they will only look at how many of these registered devices are HTC branded and try to diminish responsibility of all the other Network branded Kaiser's that they produced.
Our Serial numbers and other ref numbers is irrelevant to the problem, as is our ROM details. We switched ROMs because of these issues and we still have them!
For those who know what I'm saying please explain in better ways than I have. I'm not too good with words.
thats Good
wow..it seem a good sign..we will get our driver fix..soon..yeahh
Now we just need to forward these news articles/coverage to HTC to make sure THEY know that their asses are in the spotlight now. It would be great if we could get additional coverage on even bigger sites and networks. This is how a lot of battles against big corporations are fought by us little people today; by going to news sources to spread the word.
Hurray for my first post!
Even better would be if every one from this board Diggs the story forcing it around the internet. This link should work.
Digg It
Sounds great!
they better start this driver and release it soon otherwise they are most definitly looking at a lawsuite.
mackaby007 said:
Absolutely fabulous! Great support so far from other major Pocket PC websites. I'm delighted already. At this pace HTC will have to do a lot better than to ask for stupid e-mails detailing what has been made very clear to them already!
Don't fall for the time wasting e-mails friends. If you do send one, why not simply direct them to http://www.htcclassaction.org/ for a detailed explanation of our problems encountered.
If we do this any other way, they will only look at how many of these registered devices are HTC branded and try to diminish responsibility of all the other Network branded Kaiser's that they produced.
Our Serial numbers and other ref numbers is irrelevant to the problem, as is our ROM details. We switched ROMs because of these issues and we still have them!
For those who know what I'm saying please explain in better ways than I have. I'm not too good with words.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand where you are coming from and I don't mean to be insulting but your post is very contra productive.
Just forwarding a website to them will not get their attention.
Admitting you are using homebrew ROMs will make them ignore you.
For HTC to take the issue seriously (I've stated this in numerous posts by now) they need:
1. People calling them first and foremost. E-mail is secondary.
2. a) People describing symptoms of these issues. b) The issues should preferebly be described when using the pre-loaded applications.
3. That users stick to the pre-loaded ROM/Radio.
I know it sounds stupid but this is how tech support works at major companies.
They don't have time to listen to nuts who have tweaked their units to the max and fire off an e-mail asking for a driver. They need to know what the symptoms of the supposed issue are. How to reproduce the issues and they need to filter out all factors that can be attributed to user fault or third party software.
Again, you might certainly think it's stupid but let's face it we have nothing to gain by not playing by their rules when it comes to error reporting. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch.
just to get the story out there some more i've sent a mail/contacted te following to try get some more exposure:
bbc
itn
thesun
thetimes
pocketpcmag (also posted on their forums)
here's hoping this will gather momentum....
Nice to see the pressreleases we (HTCClassAction.org) have sent out are having this effect. Let's just hope more sites pick it up!
theflash42 said:
Even better would be if every one from this board Diggs the story forcing it around the internet. This link should work.
Digg It
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be MUCH more useful if you Digg the site that is spearheading it all:
Digg HTCClassAction.org
i highly doubt htc will fix these issues.. i smell a new phone coming our way soon! (6months)
For All
Hello,
Look an another article for Plaint of HTC driver.
http://www.theinquirer.fr/2008/01/1...s_graphiques_de_mobiles_htc.html#comment-9498
Please post your Comment at the end of the page of this web site !!!
Found it on google.news
Private69.
@++++
It shouldn't be just about the 'driver issue', it should be more towards producing a quality product, and not a defective product, and their 'current ethics' involved in pushing a product out the door before it is ready to impress investors with bottom line figures and ultimately producing a defective product.
Long time ago, two review sites already complained about the lag:
http://www.wirelessinfo.com/content/AT-T-Tilt-Cell-Phone-Review.htm
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_tytn_2-review-181.php
It's not news to HTC. They're just sandbagging.
undac said:
Admitting you are using homebrew ROMs will make them ignore you.
For HTC to take the issue seriously (I've stated this in numerous posts by now) they need:
1. People calling them first and foremost. E-mail is secondary.
2. a) People describing symptoms of these issues.
b) The issues should preferebly be described when using the pre-loaded applications.
3. That users stick to the pre-loaded ROM/Radio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, this is probably true but if you check the specs on the Qulacomm chip, it purportedly has support for common Windows video formats as well, that should play under Windows Media Player such as the AVI files that my cheapo camera records. If you do contact them this is probaby enough information on the video aspect that we need to supply (AVI files on WMP). In fact, I'll have to dig up my camera encode specs as this is very telling. I am sure the chip in my camera has no where near the horpower of the Kaiser chip. In addition, it cost less than $200.
As for the ROM, I would guess they might question this as well. Although it is not a likely culpret, it does make their support job a lot more difficult and I could see where they might take the easy road and dismiss the issue as user created. However, in my case I installed a ROM that is actually closer to the HTC shipped ROM. So if they tested their ROM, and the hardware differences are minimal (I think the front side camera is the only real difference), the possibilty that the issue is related to the updated ROM is pretty slim.
At any rate, I think there is plenty of evidence that both the stock shipped HTC ROM and the stock sipped AT&T ROM have this issue. There have also been plenty of complaints coming from the other side of the pond, so if ALL ROM appear to show this problem, it is a moot point, no?
jgermuga said:
At any rate, I think there is plenty of evidence that both the stock shipped HTC ROM and the stock sipped AT&T ROM have this issue. There have also been plenty of complaints coming from the other side of the pond, so if ALL ROM appear to show this problem, it is a moot point, no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In your eyes, yes.
In the techie kind of guys eyes, yes.
In HTCs eyes, no.
In the eys of the casual observer, no.
It's not ourselves we have to convince, it's HTC. And we can only do that by playing their game. No matter how silly and cumbersome you think it is.
HTC doesn't have to and shouldn't have to support a modified ROM no matter how good the user thinks it is.
Nor can they be responsible for third party software unless it's very obvious that the third party software works great on all but their products. (Which in turn makes it easier to just skip the third party step and give HTC input based on their pre-loaded software.)
As I said, I'm not saying your opinion about the sillyness of it all is wrong or unjustified. I'm just saying it's contra productive to the cause.
Even though HTC has many reports, seen petitions, the looming threat of a lawsuit etc. the holy grail of any company such as this is till support tickets. Once their systems is swamped with tickets containing the same problem enough times that's when they start acting.
I know this because:
a) I worked tech support for similair companies when I was younger.
b) I've handled numerous cases like these before. And I used to try your approach, it simply never works.
c) I worked as an editor and I've interviewed several support managers and such.
There's no point in acting based upon how you want things to work. If a result is what you need, rather than just to blow off steam, you need to work the system and play by their rules.
Again, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I just strongly advice against it as I think it would do more harm than good here.
Hi Guys,
This is probably the best PDA forum. HTC should pay all you guys for creating this great forum for its overrated mobile.
TyTN II was the most $ I have ever spent on a mobile. With the price I pay, I could get a decent dual core laptop. But I wanted all things in one gadget and the news on TyTN II prior to its launch have made this mobile my dream mobile.
I was weary of the slow CPU speed. But after reading Qualcomm's specification of its CPU, that it is a dual core chip, I forced myself to believe that it will be faster than my old PDA that runs on Intel PXA270, 416MHZ. Unfortunately, I was mislead.
Sure, the TyTN II is stable, but I need to wait for 1-2 secs for it to register my command and than to react is totally not acceptable, especially I paid so much $ for it.
As for the Video, the first time I experienced, at best, the still moving pictures from an avi file had caused me great concern that my TyTn II is faulty. But now we all know that that phone is working under perfectly fine condition. Seriously, who has time to encode avi file down so that it can be viewed on TyTn II. I brought this phone to assist me and make my life more convenient, not the opposite.
So finally, I am trading in this phone at 64% of its original price (I have only used this phone for 5 months) for either Asus P750 or Gsmart MS800. I have ordered both of these new phones with the store for inspection and to make my final decision.
I am also frustrated with its inability to record telephone calls, which is one of necessary function for my job. I have spoken to a HTC sales and he told me that it is for privacy reason that they have make such a restriction. This is a load of BS. All large phone companies such as Nokia, SE, LG, and Moto have such a function.
Hope that I will also be able to find a native forum as good as this for Asus P750 or Gsmart MS800.
AND, I will never (during my time on earth) buy another HTC phone again... and I will certainly spread the word to all my friends not to buy any HTC phone either. HTC is good at make its first time customer its last time customer.
Guys, seriously, do you still believe that there is hope for the video driver or video improvement for HTC???
Get a life. Good luck with your new phone. Maybe they will have the video drivers you are looking for. We need to make a Sub Forum called "People Who ***** About HTC Products and Video Drivers"
goodbye, enjoy your new phone
honestly if anyone is tired of their kaiser, pls just sell it and leave, no need to whine about it or say goodbye. we really wont miss you at all.
all of us still holding on to our kaisers may be stupid from ur point of view, but we are all trying to make it work, hence the name xda-developers, not xda-whiners. if you dont like ur kaiser, sure you are entitled to your opinion, but ppl who choose to stay, dont really care, so just sell of your phone, piss off, and dont bother anyone. we dont really care to know what you feel about your device
well thx for telling us how u feel but we dont really care...its not like we're gonna follow suit cuz of u...research or try it out before u spend "so much $" on it...and whether new drivers are coming...who knows maybe or maybe not...this phone being not suitable to u doesnt mean it sucks or its bad in any way...just go get ur phone which suits u best...and live on
well... what more can I say..?
bye bye...
FYI, it's 'wary', not 'weary'. Good luck.
Seems like you want someone to sympathize. Pick one of the following responses:
1. Awww poor baby. There there.
2. I'll join you in abandoning HTC products.
(disclaimer: meh)
Good luck. and hope you can find the right PDA.
Tell it Wayne...
One whiner less....
This is nothing personal, but people are tired of new whining threads... plz just go and leave us alone with the whining.
If your friends belive the $ you talk it's their problem. Noone here cares if your friends like HTC or not. It doesn't matter for most if HTC sales some phones less or not. I still dont geht the point of such threads...
U think HTC will read this? U think it gets better if you buy a new one? Sry but every phones has it's issues... everything... here it is a video driver, other phones als cheaply manufactured, some have other bugs. There is nothing perfect. So wake up! The world is unfair.
Guys I am sorry but there is someone who tells us what he is doing now.
I believe HTC will never release the new drivers and at least they should see that people are selling the device now and will buy other brand in the future.
HP h4150 (best device I ever had)
Magican (it was fantastic but not that fast as the h4150)
TyTn1 (was ****)
Trinity (same **** like TyTn1, color pealing blahh blahh. but at least smaller)
now this stupid Kaiser (good device but not ready for the market)
I have bought 4 devices from HTC and only one was that what I am expecting to get.
And now you Guys are blaming him because he tells in a open letter what he will do?
Nice one!
HTC cheaters
I agree with the first post of this thread.
lot of people are addicted to flashing roms (me too), the fact that Kaiser is a disaster will never be acknowledged bec we have paid good amount for this and we refuse to give up or accept the facts. Till how long, will this go on. when will HTC be made to change their attitude, an attitude of taking consumers for granted, show me any hardware of their's which is perfect, either the speaker or camera will let u down. people who have criticized the first post should realise that people didnt go out to buy a phone with bad camera, speaker and display issues. Fact is we all have been duped by HTC. and if people here think things can be solved by xda everytime so lets buy htc, then its not right. I hope someday XDA dev manufacture a great phone , probably it will be the perfect phone.
gqstatus0685 said:
Get a life. Good luck with your new phone. Maybe they will have the video drivers you are looking for. We need to make a Sub Forum called "People Who ***** About HTC Products and Video Drivers"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unnecessary! It's a forum for people to voice their opinions and thats all he was doing. Fine, if you don't agree with his post, thats up to you but it's like my parents used to tell me "If you don't have anything nice to say.... don't say anything at all"
This is kind of one of the reasons why I try not to post here too much. Too many people all wanting to jump down someones throat when they disagree with a post, r the reason for posting. It's not just here, it's the same with any forum you go to. It's sad really.
Even though you think he's whining, it doesn't get better with the negative answers you give him. He just tells us he's made a choice.
The rudeness to him in the following posts is not worthy of an xda-developer.
Stay friendly.
viewedit said:
I agree with the first post of this thread.
lot of people are addicted to flashing roms (me too), the fact that Kaiser is a disaster will never be acknowledged bec we have paid good amount for this and we refuse to give up or accept the facts. Till how long, will this go on. when will HTC be made to change their attitude, an attitude of taking consumers for granted, show me any hardware of their's which is perfect, either the speaker or camera will let u down. people who have criticized the first post should realise that people didnt go out to buy a phone with bad camera, speaker and display issues. Fact is we all have been duped by HTC. and if people here think things can be solved by xda everytime so lets buy htc, then its not right. I hope someday XDA dev manufacture a great phone , probably it will be the perfect phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ag, shamepies,
Maybe HTC will provide live feeds from Mars too.
Or maybe better yet, a device that will record your blood pressure and hot & cold running water at the same time!
Oh, maybe even better, a device that will also double as a BMI scale and also have a built-in HIV monitor and blood-group detector!!!
Grow up!!
This has truly become the Cheese & WHINE forum!!!
MACkjam said:
Ag, shamepies,
Maybe HTC will provide live feeds from Mars too.
Or maybe better yet, a device that will record your blood pressure and hot & cold running water at the same time!
Oh, maybe even better, a device that will also double as a BMI scale and also have a built-in HIV monitor and blood-group detector!!!
Grow up!!
This has truly become the Cheese & WHINE forum!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is YOUR contribution to xda-developers exactly?
even if i dont't mind if anybody has a kaiser, sells a kaiser, buys a kaiser or sleeps with his kaiser, i think such threads might not be useless.
if many people make it clear that they leave HTC and why they sell their phones maybe HTC realizes that their way to treat customers was wrong.
rhov23 said:
What is YOUR contribution to xda-developers exactly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Firstly, I've helped a few people here and there. Secondly I've been here a little longer than you even if I haven't posted much.
And yours???
MACkjam said:
Firstly, I've helped a few people here and there. Secondly I've been here a little longer than you even if I haven't posted much.
And yours???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well length of membership really isn't anything to go by, I could have signed up to be a member yesterday and could be a total guru (im not though )
Look, lets just play nice ok? Its a public forum for people to publish their opinions. Lets not turn this into yet another bashing thread.
foobar1977 said:
Well length of membership really isn't anything to go by, I could have signed up to be a member yesterday and could be a total guru (im not though )
Look, lets just play nice ok? Its a public forum for people to publish their opinions. Lets not turn this into yet another bashing thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree. Thanks
MACkjam said:
Firstly, I've helped a few people here and there. Secondly I've been here a little longer than you even if I haven't posted much.
And yours???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Made iTask, and made a lot of skins for various programs.
Sorry for sounding so ...angry..but this phone just cost me not only 800 bucks..but 1700 dollars round trip to the place i got it from...so please understand my point of view
Ok so since no one answered my question and my problem with my phone (phone died 5 mins after using it) Please answer me this:
Why should I even think about keeping my htc diamond (thats ofcourse if i decide to replace my current dead one)?
I have a feeling that this phone is so bugged, it should be cheaper, should have some kind of customer support, and should be in a reasonable working condition when you open up the box of this epensive phone and be able to do w/e it is advertises to do.
none of these pointers even come close to the HTC Diamond. It is expensive, Tech support is just halarious (a month to !!REPAIR!! my phone and then the return ground trip- I cant even replace it) and even then, your warranty is not 100% guarenteed, and last but not least, It does not work 100% when you open it up and get ready to use it
I bet if i buy a 350 dollars phone (lets say the LG rumer) id have a better experiance, without touch screen (omg its the endz of ze w0rldz!!!).
I understand what this phone is, or at least have an idea of what it's capable(at least I think, BECAUSE I ONLY USED IT FOR 5 MINS!!), but looking at this phone's forum section, quite a few ppl are having 1 or more issues with this phone.
Am I better off returning this piece of junk and getting something similar for cheaper? (iphone 3G i can grab it from a duty free airport for around 750 USD). Or a blackbarry bold, or the samsung touchscreen one..
seriously When I called HTC, they not only treated me like garbage, the rep sounded happy as if he has just ripped me off with a crappy phone and tried dhis best not to have me try to rma my phone ( and he succeeded, Im returning to the airport i bought this junk from and replacing it/ buying another brand)
But if I am missing something, then please tell me, what makes this phone so special ?
BTW I live in NA, so the freaking 3G for this phone, as u all know doesnt work ---> Another feature right out the ****ing window.
if you dont like it take it back. end of story. if you dont love it, you dont deserve it. buy an iphone, nothing ever goes wrong with those.
yeah i agree go buy an iphone.
it sounds as though it would suit you better
as its made for people like you.
i thought, i hoped that we got past the "whining" period. i was wrong.
in the first 2 month after diamond was out the forum was full with this kind of useless threads. this thread if not killed by a moderator is going to become a chat room where some ppl (mostly noobs) are going to add their frustration, some ppl are going to flame you (the "crazy about diamond" ones), some are going to send you to flash and tweak it (it seems that you don't like the idea) and some are going to plain and simple send you to give it back and end the drama.
in short if u are expecting 20 replays trying to convince you to keep it, you are wrong.
lol what a post.
A user-forum moderats itself to a high degree. If there are many people with same problems you'll find so called whining threads more often, if not the corrosponding thread will vanish quickly.
It's more or less normal to find many threads about different problems with a new and well sold device but its a a warning sign to find problem-threads with lots of people in there, reporting the same issue.
If one call it noobish to complain about problems with customer-service or getting the device to work fluidly out of the box, he does manufacturers like htc a realy big favour, perhaps for some people a reason to be proud of.
GPS-lag, sound-lag, enexpected resets, speed-issues with and without TF3D, way to less volume of internal speaker, bad border responsivity of touch-screen, bad umts signal strength, peeling off of screen, peeling off of button area, all this are all but not single-user issues, most of the are my issues too.
I've never came across before a PDA-device with so many major design-flaws like the diamond. If someone says "you have to understand htc, it's impossible to create a perfect device" or "stop whining the diamond is a well done device", I'm wondering whats the planet, he's living on. Perhaps he won it on a tombola so he has no reason to complain because he has not spend any money on it.
One of the main-reasons for me, to buy a new PDA was internal GPS. Cause of the lag, it is more or less useless for me. I like to hear mp3's with my PDA, again its quite useless because of another lag with the sound-output. I like it to take handwritten notes with my PDA - but its to laggy on the diamond, so I can forgett about it.
Perhaps htc should make clear that this phone is only for tolerant experts, like the guys in this forum who are calling people noob, cause they only want to use their device.
Keeping Diamond is not obligatory, if you don't like this phone, simply give it back and buy something you like. It's simple as that.
or perhaps they call them noobs because they seem to be incapable
of sorting out the few problems with stuff off here like the rest of us have.
this is a developers website not a site for those who just see it as a
pretty phone.
let the flame war BEGIN...
Hey, some people just have bad luck with these things, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
There are plenty of people who were on the fence about the first iPhone, and after seeing its success decided to take the plunge with the iPhone 3G (seeing that Apple finally added GPS and 3G). And lots of people have had nothing but problems with the iPhone 3G from day one. Poor or nonexistent 3G reception, laggy or inaccurate GPS, Safari crashing frequently, 8-hour long backups, major problems with iTunes and the App Store (which Apple keeps on a short leash), and the whole debacle with MobileMe.
And people will just as quickly step in and excuse Apple for any criticisms of the iPhone. So it happens to everyone -- these devices aren't the holy grail, there's always going to be imperfections one way or another. If you were unfortunate enough to experience a great deal of problems then probably nothing can change your mind. But there's nothing that says you won't have bad luck on any other device.
I guess the point is that most users here hold no illusions that somewhere, some large sum of money can buy a device "that just works"; there really is no device that's that capable. But that's the whole reason why this forum is here. If you have a problem, someone can help. If you have a lot of problems... well, there's a lot of people here.
Blazeitup123 said:
let the flame war BEGIN...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sometimes i surprise myself....i am waiting another day or two and then i'll have to say it: i told you so!
Token42 said:
A user-forum moderats itself to a high degree. If there are many people with same problems you'll find so called whining threads more often, if not the corrosponding thread will vanish quickly.
It's more or less normal to find many threads about different problems with a new and well sold device but its a a warning sign to find problem-threads with lots of people in there, reporting the same issue.
If one call it noobish to complain about problems with customer-service or getting the device to work fluidly out of the box, he does manufacturers like htc a realy big favour, perhaps for some people a reason to be proud of.
GPS-lag, sound-lag, enexpected resets, speed-issues with and without TF3D, way to less volume of internal speaker, bad border responsivity of touch-screen, bad umts signal strength, peeling off of screen, peeling off of button area, all this are all but not single-user issues, most of the are my issues too.
I've never came across before a PDA-device with so many major design-flaws like the diamond. If someone says "you have to understand htc, it's impossible to create a perfect device" or "stop whining the diamond is a well done device", I'm wondering whats the planet, he's living on. Perhaps he won it on a tombola so he has no reason to complain because he has not spend any money on it.
One of the main-reasons for me, to buy a new PDA was internal GPS. Cause of the lag, it is more or less useless for me. I like to hear mp3's with my PDA, again its quite useless because of another lag with the sound-output. I like it to take handwritten notes with my PDA - but its to laggy on the diamond, so I can forgett about it.
Perhaps htc should make clear that this phone is only for tolerant experts, like the guys in this forum who are calling people noob, cause they only want to use their device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from cambridge dictionary
whiner
noun [C] DISAPPROVING
a person, especially a child, who complains or expresses dissatisfaction continually
didn't call anybody whiner on my post (whining period).
didn't call the thread opener a noob.
1. i never said diamond is perfect but this is not the place to complain about the quality of diamond. htc diamond is a htc product. whine/complain to the htc. this is a developers forum, here you'll find ppl that are continuously improving the device. what's the point of such a thread here? what's the point? we all know too well the flows of the diamond.
2. looking at my sig you can see a partial list of the devices i own. none of them was so challenging like the diamond and in my eyes that's the beauty of it.
3. because i bought one of the first diamond arrived i paid 5000 NIS/3.5=1428$! not cheap. i also wanted to return the diamond but this was in the first days of diamond. there were no cooked ROMs and no smart tweaks and advanced configurations.... i also was a noob.. i search, i asked, i got flamed, i experimented and i can say that today i have N O N E of the problems you described. only yesterday i tried 4 new ROMs. today i am settled for at least one month with swiftbl's latest. no lag on GPS, no lag on scrolling, listening some trance with the a2dp without lag or skips (using coreplayer). didn't like the htc player so f...k. it, i bought the coreplayer.
4. sometimes i think that diamond is not a device, diamond is a kit, a "do it by yourself" gadget. don't buy it if you don't have time to assembly it.
stop complaining h e r e ! not satisfied? do something! complain to htc (not here) or return the device or invest some precious time to transform yr expensive toy from the legendary frog to the handsome prince. and no, kissing it is not enough!
I've nothing useful to add to this thread except to express my amazement that anyone would pay so much money for this device!
Mine was free on a contract that will end up costing me about the same amount over 18 months but that includes 400 talk minutes and unlimited texts. Also, I went into it with my eyes open - I knew it was not going to be as friendly or reliable as a Nokia.
If you're going to travel long distances to buy an expensive product, do some research first!
Davey101 said:
I've nothing useful to add to this thread except to express my amazement that anyone would pay so much money for this device!
Mine was free on a contract that will end up costing me about the same amount over 18 months but that includes 400 talk minutes and unlimited texts. Also, I went into it with my eyes open - I knew it was not going to be as friendly or reliable as a Nokia.
If you're going to travel long distances to buy an expensive product, do some research first!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
after years with this forum in my i-mate, trinity and athena period i'll buy a brick if i'll be sure that xda-dev is supporting it
Of course this is a developer-forum, not intended for exchanging critics on a device, without wanting or excepting to solve the criticized problems. But sometimes it goes off-topic, someone complains and a so called flamewar is created. But even a flamewar is nothing else but a discussion in a discussion-forum. I see no problem in this behavour of forums.
I think responsible people on the manufacturer-side are aware of common problems, discussed in forums like this. Because they are owning such a device by their selfs, or they are interested in, because it's their job. So perhaps critizising really anoying issues can't be done to an extend, high enough.
It's true - devices like PDA's can't be perfect, they are too complicated. But even a mixer is too complicated to be perfect.
When I buy a mixer and it's somewhat too loud or a little weak, I can say: "Hey its not what I'm expected, but it's OK for the money." But when I have to switch the mixer on 3 minutes before I want to use it, cause it has a power-on lag, or if it allways looses the mixing attachment I say its bull****.
When I buy a top-class PDA promoted for GPS, PIM and MP3 and I can do nothing of it without big problems, I think also it's bull****.
OK - one could say "Its not a problem for all, it's only 50% with GPS-lag" - hey that makes me much more enthusastic to try other htc-products.
As someone allready suggested, I can simply buy another pda - yes I can can and will, but thats a reason not to complain about a product I've bought?
fhsieh said:
Hey, some people just have bad luck with these things, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
There are plenty of people who were on the fence about the first iPhone, and after seeing its success decided to take the plunge with the iPhone 3G (seeing that Apple finally added GPS and 3G). And lots of people have had nothing but problems with the iPhone 3G from day one. Poor or nonexistent 3G reception, laggy or inaccurate GPS, Safari crashing frequently, 8-hour long backups, major problems with iTunes and the App Store (which Apple keeps on a short leash), and the whole debacle with MobileMe.
And people will just as quickly step in and excuse Apple for any criticisms of the iPhone. So it happens to everyone -- these devices aren't the holy grail, there's always going to be imperfections one way or another. If you were unfortunate enough to experience a great deal of problems then probably nothing can change your mind. But there's nothing that says you won't have bad luck on any other device.
I guess the point is that most users here hold no illusions that somewhere, some large sum of money can buy a device "that just works"; there really is no device that's that capable. But that's the whole reason why this forum is here. If you have a problem, someone can help. If you have a lot of problems... well, there's a lot of people here.
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1st rule before you buy something
do your homework
you only have yourself to blame if you find out its not for you after you have spent all that money....DOH!
P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.
liamhere said:
do your homework
you only have yourself to blame if you find out its not for you after you have spent all that money....DOH!
P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.
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Of course my mistake, not HTC's. Seems you're really clever. I think I proceed to blame myself and you can proceed to blame others.
Token42 said:
Of course my mistake, not HTC's. Seems you're really clever. I think I proceed to blame myself and you can proceed to blame others.
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just for the record,
my comment was for the thread starter and not aimed at you.
note to self....must use quote more
KukurikU said:
after years with this forum in my i-mate, trinity and athena period i'll buy a brick if i'll be sure that xda-dev is supporting it
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+.
Couldn't put it in a better way!
Coming back to the actual Diamond "problems" mentioned:
Even with the first couple of original HTC roms, I never experienced any GPS lag, mp3 lag etc etc. Only the start-up lag is rather annoying, but hey... how fast does your Windows Vista PC boot up?
Please try to compare Diamond's GPS next to an N95, and post the results on accuracy and lag (I have done so!).
Finally, I would agree with "liamhere"'s statement of "P.S.......if you just want a just a "phone"....go buy a nokia.", but I would like to add:
Make sure it's NOT an N series... and don't buy it (actually never buy ANYTHING expensive)from somewhere so far away, unless is online, so FedEx, DHL or whoever, can come to the rescue
liamhere said:
just for the record,
my comment was for the thread starter and not aimed at you.
note to self....must use quote more
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Sorry, got this wrong.
If most people are happy with their diamond and doesn't encounter any of the known problems its fine and nice. Personaly I really start to get a little bit angry about myself, to have spent so much money for it.
I've bought this device not for the phone-functionality but as a pda and this was a bad bad decission. Not only because of flaws I was not aware of when I've bought it but because of limitations I knew of. I was only to impatient to wait for other models and do enough research.
I don't think HTC will spent many resources on bugfixing for example the gps-lag, cause their are so many phones of them in development and they have allready made their deal with the diamond.
So I return to my beloved Loox and use the diamond really only as a phone, better than nothing.
Update (21 Nov):
Unfortunately, we could not even establish consensus whether there was a problem or not. Some argued that the GPS problems only reflect normal manufacturing quality variance and others thought that the problem is a result of bad design or bad quality control (way above acceptable levels).
One member, ehe12, started a facebook page: Here is the original post by ehe12:
"Dear All, I have created a facebook group called Samsung Galaxy S GPS Issue, if you can all join and talk? Thanks. Also is there a way on facebook to vote? I will raise a vote for good/bad gps as well."
----------------------
original post:
Hi, like many of you I am very disappointed about the GPS performance. I am moving to the US next year from Europe and bought what I thought was the best android phone. I wanted to have on the go internet, email, camera and navigation. The last point is very important both for driving (I bought copilot US) and walking around in US cities or towns.
I tried every GPS "fix" recommendation and have maximized my SGS's GPS performance. However, the best I can get is still way below usefulness/expectations. Two service requests to Samsung for comments remained unanswered.
I am a strategy Prof at a business school and I hate the thought of consumers not having any power over companies. I am afraid Samsung may get away with ignoring old problems and releasing new phones instead thus driving the consumption spiral rather than focusing on optimizing existing platforms. Their strategy might be that we all (or new customers) will not be able to resist the temptation to just buy the new SGS version and throw away our "old" SGSi9000 next year. I think we could do something more proactive to let them feel that this might have costs, e.g. reputation effects, unwillingness to buy Samsung again and potential negative spillover to other Samsung product lines etc.
I know this is not a development thread. But we are all users not just developers. Perhaps some useful idea about how to engage Samsung powerfully, yet constructively comes out of this discussion?
Thanks, Chris
Flash mob of phone calls to their tech support centers?
that might just annoy their poor service center employees - I think we need something that gets senior management attention.
Totally agree with you.
I hate the fact that some users are just saying all phones have their faults and to deal with it. Yes is true all phones have thier fault but they should be supporting their users.
This is what samsung wants to hear, with enough pressure am sure samsung will act. How is the question
The best thing would be to get some of the big sites like Engadget or ArsTechnica report on this issue. That would get Samsung's attention.
I have tried calling their customer service centres a few times and it was a painful experience.
great idea! mobile phones are "experience goods", i.e. you need to buy it to find out how good it is. so some main drivers for purchase decisions are general reputation ("Samsung is known to produce good stuff..."); test and reviews in general and specialized media; recommendations from friends and virtual communities etc. this may be the weak point of Samsung.
However, our prime objective should be to get Samsung to produce better technology and give us better phones NOT to ruin their reputation etc. so we need a powerful - yet constructive - approach. maybe we could strategize and think through our options with someone form Engadget et al.? anyone has contacts to these guys?
darkoroje said:
The best thing would be to get some of the big sites like Engadget or ArsTechnica report on this issue. That would get Samsung's attention.
I have tried calling their customer service centres a few times and it was a painful experience.
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Isn't that done already?
Samsung need to know how many people the poor gps problem affects. If someone could go to endgadget/gsm arena and say that there is still X amount of people with poor gps performance and point the finger showing the not every hansdset suffers so its some sort of manufacturing issue surely samsung would have to respond. (maby create a facebook group/online petition or something similar)
This is worse than the iphone4 problem as at least apple new it affected every handset, where this doesnt. Just highlights to me a pooor manufacturing process.
pau1200 said:
Samsung need to know how many people the poor gps problem affects. If someone could go to endgadget/gsm arena and say that there is still X amount of people with poor gps performance and point the finger showing the not every hansdset suffers so its some sort of manufacturing issue surely samsung would have to respond. (maby create a facebook group/online petition or something similar)
This is worse than the iphone4 problem as at least apple new it affected every handset, where this doesnt. Just highlights to me a pooor manufacturing process.
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One suspects that Samsung already knows how many people are affected and perhaps they just do not want to admit publicly that their QA processes are completely f'ed up.
My opinion about Engadget - it appears they created the perception that Samsung is aware of the issues and has solved them by now. Otherwise it is hard to explain why millions of SGSs are still sold around the world.
This implies that a) people don't know, b) people think this is a minor issue, c) people think the problem has been solved etc
I think a public story or update about what really happened in the last 4 months is due - this would also include the Kies disaster, serious lags due to an innapropriate file system, and the lack of proactive communication with their global customer base.
In a way they really get it wrong - people here at XDA love to play with the software. Thus, having some minor flaws in a phone is great b/c it builds and legitimizes a community of super creative and smart people. Why not work closely with them as a company and co-create new firmware, apps etc....
How about everybody flooding twitter with "Samsung Galaxy Gps Faulty" or summits along them lines. It only takes five thousand tweets to make the top ten. I think if we all manage to get all our contacts to re tweet it we can get in the top ten. That might be a better way of getting the problem noticed and maybe get some media attention.
Plus Samsung seem quite vocal on twitter, maybe they will take note.
Sent From My GT-Iphone-killer almost.
A lot can talk the talk, but how many can walk the walk?
It takes about 5 seconds to click on the "Tip Us" link on engaget... If your GPS is flawed, why don't you do it? You might get more of Engadget / samsung's attention if you start by TIPING THEM ON THE ISSUE!
You really have to be taken by the hand and shown the way aren't y'all?
Good point and I have just filled in the tip us form. Now if more people do the same we may get a story
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
just did the same
I've just done the tip us thing too, if we get enough people to do this maybe we can get some attention to the problem and a definitive answer from samsung!
Everybody get everyone to fill it in!
have also tipped them
maybe it'll be a good idea to change the post title or create a separate one entirely so that the users of this forum can also tip them if they have the problem too.
Tip us counter?
deleted - makes no sense
one concern - are we alienating engadget with this?
I think the "tip us" function is meant to provide news not complaints.
I suggest the following:
Lets start a new thread entitled "Join us to get Samsung's attention" or something like that. We start a list of user names - anyone can add his/her name to extend the list - once the list has more than 100 names we send it to Engadget and start a new list - every 100 names creates a new email to Engagdet and I suggest that we send it to Josh, the editor in chief directly.
what do you think?
Petition Online?
what about using http://petitiononline.com/ ? you guys think it'd worth a shot?
I will also do anything the community is involved in. I have tipped.
I find this very curious, since January, I have been very vocal on the Samsung USA Facebook page as well as Twitter about the missing Froyo update. Today I went to check the Facebook page to find that somehow I had lost the ability to post anything.. shortly thereafter, I realized that I no longer "liked" the Samsung USA page. I did not do that myself, Samsung must have had that done (reported me for spamming/abuse?). Perusing the wall posts, I notice a distinct lack of people complaining about the 2.2 update.
I was not abusive, I did not swear or use foul language in any of my posts on that wall. I cracked a few jokes, sure, but nothing that could have been considered over-the-top. In fact, I waited until AFTER the promised "by the end of the year" deadline (promised to me on Twitter by @GalaxySSupport) to even being posting any complaints.
Is this Samsung's damage-control strategy moving forward? To try to stifle public outcry by booting us off of your pages and deleting our posts?
themirthfulswami said:
I find this very curious, since January, I have been very vocal on the Samsung USA Facebook page as well as Twitter about the missing Froyo update. Today I went to check the Facebook page to find that somehow I had lost the ability to post anything.. shortly thereafter, I realized that I no longer "liked" the Samsung USA page. I did not do that myself, Samsung must have had that done (reported me for spamming/abuse?). Perusing the wall posts, I notice a distinct lack of people complaining about the 2.2 update.
I was not abusive, I did not swear or use foul language in any of my posts on that wall. I cracked a few jokes, sure, but nothing that could have been considered over-the-top. In fact, I waited until AFTER the promised "by the end of the year" deadline (promised to me on Twitter by @GalaxySSupport) to even being posting any complaints.
Is this Samsung's damage-control strategy moving forward? To try to stifle public outcry by booting us off of your pages and deleting our posts?
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You know this is very interesting as when trying to give the Vibrant a bad review (for the software not the hardware) on their website it will tell you that they are looking for different type of reviews and won't post the bad one.
swehes said:
You know this is very interesting as when trying to give the Vibrant a bad review (for the software not the hardware) on their website it will tell you that they are looking for different type of reviews and won't post the bad one.
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thats insane. i'm really starting to dislike the samsung brand. buying a new tv soon too to replace my 5 year old samsung
Unless samsung comes out with something AMAZING (honeycomb for my Epic) to make up for all their lack with the galaxy S line, I will never buy another samsung product again.
SO MANY of my tech friends said "samsung does not support their phones, YOU WILL BE UPSET"
As I sit here the audio out ports on both my car and desk docks DO NOT WORK because they haven't released a year old 2.2 froyo.
Looks like my tech friends were right. The only reason my gps works is because of the hard working dev's here......and I have paid them for their work! I feel horrible for all the stock users in the world who have a **** gps thanks to samsung.
J3ff said:
Unless samsung comes out with something AMAZING (honeycomb for my Epic) to make up for all their lack with the galaxy S line, I will never buy another samsung product again.
SO MANY of my tech friends said "samsung does not support their phones, YOU WILL BE UPSET"
As I sit here the audio out ports on both my car and desk docks DO NOT WORK because they haven't released a year old 2.2 froyo.
Looks like my tech friends were right. The only reason my gps works is because of the hard working dev's here......and I have paid them for their work! I feel horrible for all the stock users in the world who have a **** gps thanks to samsung.
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I feel as if i should point out that my gps works just fine.
Sent from my non-rooted, stock eclair Epic.
swehes said:
You know this is very interesting as when trying to give the Vibrant a bad review (for the software not the hardware) on their website it will tell you that they are looking for different type of reviews and won't post the bad one.
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wow. that left me stunned for a second.
swehes said:
You know this is very interesting as when trying to give the Vibrant a bad review (for the software not the hardware) on their website it will tell you that they are looking for different type of reviews and won't post the bad one.
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Same happened to me with the Captivate on AT&T's website. Except mine was all hardware complaints.
My hardware is perfect
But sadly software is not! Unless they move away from carrier based updates this will be my last Samsung or Android based phone.
Remember Samsung when my phone crashes due to poor or out of date software or can't download something for the same reason I don't see the 3 mobile logo all I see is the Samsung logo.
This is all happening too close to the release of the Galaxy S 2 launch!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
swehes said:
You know this is very interesting as when trying to give the Vibrant a bad review (for the software not the hardware) on their website it will tell you that they are looking for different type of reviews and won't post the bad one.
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Man, same thing happened to me w/ my Epic review. I was pretty honest that i loved the hardware but the software needed updating. Got a message saying my review did not match what they were looking for and was rejected. Pretty easy to have devices w/ 4 and 5 star aggregate scores on your website if you're controlling which reviews you accept samsung.
You guys should take some screenshots of this and send it around to sites like engadget. The more bad press we can get for samsung, the faster we see updates. Worked for the t-mobile guys after they very publicly accused samsung of holding back the update to sell their newer phone.
Hi Guys,
I am also a samsung owner, not the galaxy S series but a phone called the Samsung Spica i5700; not supported by Samsung anymore after they claimed the hardware was not capable to run Android 2.2 froyo, ehh! the devs over at samdroid have ported AOSP and CM builds of 2.2 froyo onto it and are as of now porting AOSP and CM of GB.
the point I have is samsung is pathetic in customer support, all they want is to sell the customers to buy there new devices, and when the samsung #nevergain hashtag was started by an xda member and the hashtag went BOOM into samsung's face they are here to regain some respect, for that they need to prove a point to us, we have already proven them wrong.
I think the way to froyo, is to keep the heat up till they break down and beg to give source away.
everyone should retweet this:
http://twitter.com/#!/vorathe/status/37634312098693120
Johnnie5000 said:
Same happened to me with the Captivate on AT&T's website. Except mine was all hardware complaints.
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same here, never hit the web in their eyes
What can I say that has not been said more eloquently by others.
GPS + Froyo for Captivate Update please. As that would make the phone much more desirable and usable, The immediate next thing I am going to do is Ebay that Piece Of S***. Seriously Never going to touch a samsung phone even with a barge pole.
Thank you Samsung for making the Galaxy S brand a pinnacle for quality, support and customer satisfaction.
P.S. I know this has been posted before and does not add ANYTHING, but had to vent.
What the hell is samsungjohn discussing with the xda people? I mean it's been fully 5 days now and absolutely nothing of substance has emerged. What is taking so long? I mean seriously, can someone give an update or something?
Im not really sure theres much to discuss... but yeah, IF the 'hello' part 2 posts WERE the big announcement, it would be nice if the XDA powers that be just posted 'Sorry, thats really all he had to say, he wants to meet devs at a music festival, thats it... he is gone now, go about your business'. I just really hope he doesnt think an 'open dialogue' is a HUGE announcement, and actually has something WE care about. He may just think that was huge because, well its his thing... his job... to us its like, yeah, another source for cut n paste responses... great... oh and one not on FB or Twitter! How convenient!
Whoa! Did this just get moved to 'off topic'???
Wow... its like Samsung Mobile with negative comments!
whatever... Guess its not technically about a phone.
muyoso said:
You guys should take some screenshots of this and send it around to sites like engadget. The more bad press we can get for samsung, the faster we see updates. Worked for the t-mobile guys after they very publicly accused samsung of holding back the update to sell their newer phone.
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this one ! GOGOGO
Oh, that's terrible.