Related
Being certified by Microsoft and specializing in Internet security, I know that Windows is the most targeted operating system for viruses, trojans, malware etc. Surely there must be an anti-virus by now for WP7.
After doing a search in the Market Place I didnt find any. There were anti-virus applications for WM6x, Iphone, Android and even Symbian but what about WP7. My guess is it wont be long before we need some sort of anti-virus protection for our devices. Picture this, you see a nice application from an independent website which wets your whistle. You install it by Toms Xap installer and your phone goes off. You try to restart but it refuses. The boot screen comes up with a message saying you are a victim of a virus which has now rendered your phone into a very expensive paper weight. It is possible and installing Xap applications through Toms Xap installer makes us even more exposed to malicious applications. WP7 Market Place scans applications and games to make sure you are protected. I'm not trying to scare people here so please dont get me wrong but I am trying to open peoples eyes and urge you to be cautious when installing applications which are not from WP7 Market Place or Xda.
I thought I would create this threat for the Xda community to share their views on this.
Personally I wont bother, its up to the users. Its all documented on Google.
see here: http://www.techgazing.com/2010/01/11/do-i-need-an-anti-virus-for-my-phone/
Russ
I would have to say that is a very interesting read. Nothing in there were mentioned about WP7. All I am saying is to be careful. That article claims there are 420 mobile phone viruses and most targeted is Symbian. This is because Symbian have been out longer than Android, Iphone and WM. Symbian certainly bought out more phones over the years so this would explain why they were targeted.
The case where the anti-virus company actually had a virus and passed it on through updates was shocking. That should never have happened and was very negligent of the anti-virus company.
Although people may think it will never happen to them, for the occasional few it does. People take out mobile phone insurance but how any people claim insurance? Why pay money for insurance when you dont take measures to backup your data and protect your device?
The internet is full of traps and data collecting nasties and you never can be sure that what ever you are downloading is 100% safe. Dont you think better to be safe than sorry should be a moto well remembered?
What you are missing is the fact that WP7 apps run completely sandboxed - they cannot reach out of their own little world.
Sure, installing a homebrew app which includes native code may circumvent this but I'd say that's the risk you take when geeking around with your phone
I think an antivirus-software is a totally useless investion of money for now.
You say, windows is the most targetted OS for viruses. Yeah, for sure, because most of people use it.
But its another thing if you look onto the mobile operating systems. The users are spread in 3-4 groups there: WM, Android, iOS and maybe the Blackberry OS.
So the virus-programmers need to choose first, for which platform they are going to write some malicious code. They are never gonna hit that much users as they would hit with Windows for Desktop.
I never heard of any popular virus for any mobilephone including WM-phones.
Secondly, WP7 is a totally new OS. For now, the count of people using this OS is way lower than that of Android and iOS - Users.
So why should hackers choose WP7 especially now as their victim?
My opinion for my last 5 years of using mobile operating systems is: You dont need it.
You have the same ability for sideloading apps with android and iOS too for now and they are much longer on the market than the new WP7 and I never heard of any viruses.
Anti-virus software is a complete waste of money, i dont use it on any of my 3 windows computers or any phones...
mideel said:
I never heard of any popular virus for any mobilephone including WM-phones.
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Norton and Kaperski have both had anti-virus on Symbian and WM
scbrother said:
Anti-virus software is a complete waste of money, i dont use it on any of my 3 windows computers or any phones...
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OMG are you trying to commit online suicide lol
AndHD2 said:
Norton and Kaperski have both had anti-virus on Symbian and WM
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read my post again. I didnt mean anti-virus-software, I meant viruses!
mideel said:
read my post again. I didnt mean anti-virus-software, I meant viruses!
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Click to collapse
I think I had a Homer Simpson moment then.....Duh lol
i do not think antivirus on Phone is necessary. it will rather slow down stuff.
There is only 1 (ONE) existing virus for WM 6.x. Funny enough it was created by Kaspersky in order to demonstrate that viruses are possible and ppl should install AV software
Viruses for WP7 are almost useless as apps are completely sandboxed. Same thing with iOS. Only Android offers enough freedom for malicious code and then again only if rooted.
AndHD2 said:
Being certified by Microsoft and specializing in Internet security, I know that Windows is the most targeted operating system for viruses, trojans, malware etc. Surely there must be an anti-virus by now for WP7.
After doing a search in the Market Place I didnt find any. There were anti-virus applications for WM6x, Iphone, Android and even Symbian but what about WP7. My guess is it wont be long before we need some sort of anti-virus protection for our devices. Picture this, you see a nice application from an independent website which wets your whistle. You install it by Toms Xap installer and your phone goes off. You try to restart but it refuses. The boot screen comes up with a message saying you are a victim of a virus which has now rendered your phone into a very expensive paper weight. It is possible and installing Xap applications through Toms Xap installer makes us even more exposed to malicious applications. WP7 Market Place scans applications and games to make sure you are protected. I'm not trying to scare people here so please dont get me wrong but I am trying to open peoples eyes and urge you to be cautious when installing applications which are not from WP7 Market Place or Xda.
I thought I would create this threat for the Xda community to share their views on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently the certificate and specialization doesn't help much when there is lack of reading. Sorry, you've started your post with that sentence and it only makes you look silly.
If you've read even ONE review of this OS you'd realize that it lacks multitasking! That saidb there is no possibility (yet) of an application (AV) running in the background to check files/processes. Besides this OS is so closed you can't even download unsupported files! Today I couldn't download a simple .rar archive - it said that WP7 doesn't support this filetype
As for sideloading applications it's not officially supported by MS so it's just one of the "risks" advanced users need to cope with as Microsoft is checking each application before posting it on the marketplace. Plus the applications written are all in managed code and we don't even have access to system functions. Even simple functions like reading the battery percentage are unsupported.
So there is technically an extremely low risk of viruses in this pretty much closed OS.
I can't imagine AV's impact on already poor battery performance on HD2 WM7.
P$YCH0 said:
Apparently the certificate and specialization doesn't help much when there is lack of reading. Sorry, you've started your post with that sentence and it only makes you look silly.
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Agreed. And most of us are used to flashing a new ROM every week, which is all you'd really need to do to recover from a 'virus'. I'm struggling to see what the danger is, especially on WP7.
Poor battery performance?
iBimmer said:
I can't imagine AV's impact on already poor battery performance on HD2 WM7.
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What exactly are you doing to cause poor battery performance with WP7 on your HD2? It is probably the best battery life I have had on my phone other than an energy rom.
whycali said:
What exactly are you doing to cause poor battery performance with WP7 on your HD2? It is probably the best battery life I have had on my phone other than an energy rom.
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i think most ppl who say something about poor battery perfomance on wp7 hd2 never used push mail on their phones
whats more likely is that you get a virus on you PC that trashes your phone on flash.
ah the good old days when virus wiped BIOSs and totally ruined your day.
I think its highly unlikely anything could happn on the device its self for the reasons mentioned above, worst case you could hard reset, unlike PCs most stuff is backed up, hopefully everything soon (Myphone please MS!!) and it takes a few min to reinstall, doing the same on your PC would mean a day watching movies whilst you set it all back up again.
Obviously this is a pretty safe OS, but if they do get something like Lookout Security I'll get it, simply for peace of mind.
virus/worm problem
I landed here after a search for antivirus for wp7. i use a htc hd7 chevron unlocked and over the last two days i experienced unwanted outgoing email on my live.com account. i use live.com account on the phone and also on PC via live.com and also using outlook connector...
how can i check which is affected with a virus - pc scan using avg shows clean. the unwanted emails go out apparantly when my pc is off - so is the virus on my wp7 or actually on live.com?
according to this post, there couldnt be a virus on wp7 is it??
any help/thoughts will be much appreciated.
TIA
I think my HD2/WP7 has something dodgy monitoring my actions as after I registered my debit card with the Market & made the first 79p payment for the XDA app I get a dodgy email to my Live email claiming to be from my bank saying there has been unusual activity with a html attachment.
This is a fake, but they new my bank and Live email address and the fact that I made some unusual activity: as in the 79p app.
WP7 is open somewhere!
February 29, Mircosoft is supposed to release the consumer Beta of Windows 8. Reported to support Intel, AMD, and ARM processors, assuming I read the article correctly. Is it likely that we would be able to port it to our Touchpads? I know thats been asked before, with a resounding answer of "No, the only tablets to get Win8 will be blah blah blah." Or "Microsoft wouldn't allow users to blah blah blah."
Don't get me wrong, I'm over-joyed with the advent of CM9 being finished sooner now that the source code from HP has been released. But, being a windows fanboy, I can't help myself wishing for a release on my Touchpad.
ethankz750 said:
February 29, Mircosoft is supposed to release the consumer Beta of Windows 8. Reported to support Intel, AMD, and ARM processors, assuming I read the article correctly. Is it likely that we would be able to port it to our Touchpads? I know thats been asked before, with a resounding answer of "No, the only tablets to get Win8 will be blah blah blah." Or "Microsoft wouldn't allow users to blah blah blah."
Don't get me wrong, I'm over-joyed with the advent of CM9 being finished sooner now that the source code from HP has been released. But, being a windows fanboy, I can't help myself wishing for a release on my Touchpad.
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With the release of the Android kernel this week, I think our chances increased. But let's not rush devs...someone will pick up the ball and run with it if they choose to do so.
That doesn't really answer your question, but sorry. Currently, you're correct. The HPTP doesn't run Windows. But in the future...well, if I could know what would happen tomorrow or next week, I'd work on Wall Street and just buy a Transformer Prime, and a Win8 tablet, and an iPad2, a Bugatti Vehyron (sp?) etc you get the point.
Due to the way it will be distributed and the licensing, XDA cannot promote the development or porting of it. /thread
danknee said:
Due to the way it will be distributed and the licensing, XDA cannot promote the development or porting of it. /thread
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Which shouldn't prevent us from discussing the possibility of it happening...and doesn't mean it won't happen.
/reply
sean is here. said:
Which shouldn't prevent us from discussing the possibility of it happening...and doesn't mean it won't happen.
/reply
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All fun and games until a link gets posted. Might work if the site name changes to XDA-talking and news only, no doing anything please.
danknee said:
All fun and games until a link gets posted. Might work if the site name changes to XDA-talking and news only, no doing anything please.
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I'm very much with you. I abhor people posting warez links here, and detest un-allowed mirrors...(i.e. external mirrors to rootzwiki's dev's work) but the way I understood it, the OP was just asking for a bit of speculation as to whether it might one day happen.
Noted. If it happens, it will be considered warez and should not be promoted here. I'm very intimidated by SOPA/PIPA and don't want to lose this site because of dumbasses posting warez here.
Correct, I was just curious about it. Thanks for the reply Sean. Based on Microsoft's past, I would assume they will offer Win8 ARM to be installed on any compatible tablet, just like they do with Windows desktop. I am aware that tablets vary, so it might not be possible currently. If they do offer a purchasable Win8 ARM, I will be first in line to buy it. If it does end up being (inevitably) warez, then I will not be promoting it here, where big brother can see me.
Off topic, I come here, to the Q&A thread, to discuss, read discussions, and bounce ideas around. This may be XDA Dev but, if thats all we did was dev, then we wouldn't need a forum to talk about it.
It is more likely that Windows 8 ARM will be an OEM only product, just made available to developers and hardware manufacturers (like MS do with Windows Storage Server), as it will need significant driver customisation for each platform.
"x86/64 apps will not be able to be ported to ARM" http://m.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/02/how-windows-apps-will-run-on-arm-tablets/
Also there will be two total hardware versions this is being developed to run on.
Why would anyone want this? Without the x86 programs it might as well be the next Windows phone in tablet version (flop)
Metro / HTML5 apps is where they will push a unified app experience with Windows Phone 8, XBOX 360, Windows 8. These will run on x86 or ARM, and as these will be touch friendly, it could be a big hit for MS on tablets. I agree that ARM versions of Windows 8 will probably only be OEM licensed, but we can always hope they open it up for independent developers.
Clearest statement so far coming through PC Pro article - http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/372730/microsoft-windows-on-arm-wont-be-sold-separately
With all the restrictions Microsoft is putting on the ARM version it sounds like it would be quite a pain to get something working. HP tested Windows 8 on the Touchpad since OEMs have had access to the ARM developer preview already.
Seeing that ARM Windows won't run x86/64 Windows programs, it probably won't be of that much use anyways. About the biggest selling point I see is Microsoft is making Office for ARM I believe so it would be nice to have a real Office Suite. But Android is also getting LibreOffice.
But, being a windows fanboy
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Come to the Linux side, we have cookies !
Really, what tha sense in using this crap, if there will be no apps? It's only reason to use windows, IMHO...
I have a feeling that Windows for Arm or WOA it's just rebranded Windows CE with metro and other stuff , not Win 8 port ...
www.anandtech.com/show/5527/microsoft-provides-windows-on-arm-details
Latest info on it. (2/10/2012)
Short version: no x86 apps on ARM (they have to be installed through Windows own app market), licenses only distributed through OEMs. And don't forget that ALL Windows on ARM tablets will be required to have a locked and signed bootloader.
My opinion: I don't see what the fuzz and excitement is all about Win 8 ARM tablets, they will run in closed, controlled environment that mirrors more Windows Phone 7 than desktop Windows. I can definitely see the less informed people thinking they can essentially port all their laptop experience into a tablet seamlessly, hence the excitement, but once you know what Windows on ARM really is going to be, there isn't much to be excited about.
EDIT: Allow this topic to end once and for all
The story for ARM is rather different, however. On ARM Windows 8 systems, Microsoft's certification rules prohibit entering "custom mode"—users must not be able to add certificates of their own—and prohibit disabling secure boot completely. The ARM systems will all require the use of a signed operating system loader, and that operating system loader must be signed by Microsoft.
Microsoft's rules also specify that a secure boot failure must be fatal; there must be no option to override the failure and choose to boot the untrusted operating system.
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Source: arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2012/01/windows-8s-locked-bootloaders-much-ado-about-nothing-or-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it.ars
littleemp said:
Microsoft's rules also specify that a secure boot failure must be fatal; there must be no option to override the failure and choose to boot the untrusted operating system.
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How long do you actually expect that to last without a workaround?
Richard Mongler said:
How long do you actually expect that to last without a workaround?
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You're missing the point, that's one of many failsafes, including no source code and an enforced signed bootloader will make it development hell for most devices.
littleemp said:
You're missing the point, that's one of many failsafes, including no source code and an enforced signed bootloader will make it development hell for most devices.
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I think you're missing the point.
Microsoft is releasing their software to OEMs only and not to private developers/individuals because they want to create a software ecosystem comparable to Apple's model -- one closed Mobile OS, one "open" Workstation OS, one open Server OS -- but that doesn't mean porting it is going to be completely impossible. On top of that, all the complaints about x86 applications not running in ARM environments are a bit silly.
Have you ever actually tried to use a desktop OS on a tablet? I have.
Windows 7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8I_KjP8Dc4
Ubuntu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp6b3kOKWbg
OSX (yes, that OSX):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUpKN1ckGhE
x86 applications and other full-OS applications are NOT fun or easy to manipulate without a proper keyboard and mouse, it ends up being more annoying than convenient and you'll go to your laptop or desktop to do what you needed to do anyway. This is a good move for Microsoft, even if XDA doesn't like it.
Good move? Hardly. This means they are showing up to the tablet game late, with a virgin OS, and without any software. Look for a repeat of the Windows Phone launch.
Secure boot will be able to be disabled in the BIOS on OEM Windows 8 systems it sounds like.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/leading-pc-makers-confirm-no-windows-8-plot-to-lock-out-linux/4185
spunker88 said:
Secure boot will be able to be disabled in the BIOS on OEM Windows 8 systems it sounds like.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/leading-pc-makers-confirm-no-windows-8-plot-to-lock-out-linux/4185
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Read the article I linked about the Bootloader from Ars Technica and then read yours again. Nowhere does it state that this applies to the Windows on ARM version of the OS.
x86 machines will be able to boot with Secure Boot disabled just fine, ARM versions won't.
Richard Mongler said:
I think you're missing the point.
Microsoft is releasing their software to OEMs only and not to private developers/individuals because they want to create a software ecosystem comparable to Apple's model -- one closed Mobile OS, one "open" Workstation OS, one open Server OS -- but that doesn't mean porting it is going to be completely impossible. On top of that, all the complaints about x86 applications not running in ARM environments are a bit silly.
Have you ever actually tried to use a desktop OS on a tablet? I have.
Windows 7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8I_KjP8Dc4
Ubuntu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp6b3kOKWbg
OSX (yes, that OSX):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUpKN1ckGhE
x86 applications and other full-OS applications are NOT fun or easy to manipulate without a proper keyboard and mouse, it ends up being more annoying than convenient and you'll go to your laptop or desktop to do what you needed to do anyway. This is a good move for Microsoft, even if XDA doesn't like it.
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Technical reasons aside, do you know the reason why development simply won't take off? Because XDA isn't a piracy website and nobody wants to get sued for hosting pirated content. IF Microsoft puts their foot down (like they are doing), Windows on ARM development will simply not happen.
Why is it different for homebrewed WP7 ROMs? Because it falls into an undefined grey area.
People need to STOP dreaming about Windows on ARM on current hardware and just go buy a new device with it preloaded once it comes out, because unless Microsoft makes several concessions to the development community, it's simply not going to happen.
Now to address your other point, WOA isn't going to be the panacea of tablets like so many people want to think simply because it's plastered with the Windows logo. It's going to be a Metro themed ARM-compatible OS separate from the x86 versions, it will have a separate "App Store", and it will NOT run .exe files. It won't be a Desktop-on-Tablet Experience, just another competitor to Android and iOS (And a late one to the race while at that).
I have looked at the Metro UI and what Windows 8 has to offer and I'm not impressed. Also I cannot understand all the hype, since Microsoft tends to exaggerate things to garner attention (e.g. Vista will be a "Gamer OS", we all know how that turned out... Took them a year to bring up performance to par with XP and another year to crank out 7 and finally make it better than XP), so if Microsoft isn't even boasting this time around and just letting misdirection and poor communication from their PR create all this hype, it's going to fall flat on it's face.
In conclusion, WOA is simply going to be another tablet OS, one that is late to the party, most likely buggy and in need of patching and a lot of feedback to bring to a satisfactory level. Will it be a complete flop? Who can tell... But it will most definitely not revolutionize tablets as we know them. (And this point can be taken as a fact, since Microsoft has NEVER released something working properly, it has always taken them a lot of time and patches)
EDIT: And I mention x86 applications, because this is what has people to riled up and excited over the whole thing, being able to translate their desktop/laptop experience and programs into a tablet. You may understand the difference here, but all the people asking these questions ("Will it run on my Touchpad?" "Will it run on my Asus Transformer?") do not.
Me and my friend, (who is a budding app developer for android) ran into discussion about "Android JB vs WP8", and after many aspects, we came to "developer benefits", there I said that Android is not good for developers bcoz people SIDELOAD app and nothing can detect a pirated app. That's the sad truth.
But on WP8 there's no way to SIDELOAD app, so No piracy of apps on WP8.
My friend said there are WP8 custom ROMS available and WP8 can also be rooted. So there maybe ways when people use Pirated apps on WP8 also.
So who is correct Me or my friend? Are there ways on WP8.
Sent from my GT-S5570 using xda app-developers app
Apourv said:
Me and my friend, (who is a budding app developer for android) ran into discussion about "Android JB vs WP8", and after many aspects, we came to "developer benefits", there I said that Android is not good for developers bcoz people SIDELOAD app and nothing can detect a pirated app. That's the sad truth.
But on WP8 there's no way to SIDELOAD app, so No piracy of apps on WP8.
My friend said there are WP8 custom ROMS available and WP8 can also be rooted. So there maybe ways when people use Pirated apps on WP8 also.
So who is correct Me or my friend? Are there ways on WP8.
Sent from my GT-S5570 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
You're correct, can't root and you can only sideload apps if you're a developer. No custom roms, no root, your friend's a fandroid who's insecure about their OS.
I think disabling Sideloading is better. Because Wallet services are coming to mobile so chances are high that someone might make app which will hack mobile payment passwords and accounts, using app which people sideload. This might make android insecure, when making NFC payments.
Sent from my GT-S5570 using xda app-developers app
Disable sideloading? And then how are dev supposed to test their apps on their phones ? - the emulator is not a good choice in some cases.
Also, there are no custom roms YET, but I am pretty sure there will be. There's nothing in this world that can be protected from hacking
timotei21 said:
Disable sideloading? And then how are dev supposed to test their apps on their phones ? - the emulator is not a good choice in some cases.
Also, there are no custom roms YET, but I am pretty sure there will be. There's nothing in this world that can be protected from hacking
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Developers can unlock their phones. Others can't.
Apourv said:
Me and my friend, (who is a budding app developer for android) ran into discussion about "Android JB vs WP8", and after many aspects, we came to "developer benefits", there I said that Android is not good for developers bcoz people SIDELOAD app and nothing can detect a pirated app. That's the sad truth.
But on WP8 there's no way to SIDELOAD app, so No piracy of apps on WP8.
My friend said there are WP8 custom ROMS available and WP8 can also be rooted. So there maybe ways when people use Pirated apps on WP8 also.
So who is correct Me or my friend? Are there ways on WP8.
Sent from my GT-S5570 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
Blocking load of apps is a huge OVERKILL.
Say I wand to write an app, and distribute it freely, and do not want to put it on the market ?
What then ?
Besides that - if the IPhone with all it's locks and vaults can be set to load apps outside the Apple market,
it is safe to say that WinPhone will have the same crack.
Locking the device and limiting the user is a bad thing, and besides alienating your user base it will not do much.
Alienating your user base is never a good tactic, they will leave.
(People who plan to get WinPhone are most likely people who used WinMo - that was totally open to customization and apps from wherever)
Some developers looked into breaking the security on Nokia's WP7 phones and decided it would be to hard but of course there might be ways to do it anyway and allow custom ROMs. Aside from that Marketplace XAPs originally could be modified to be sideloaded on WP7 but this has changed several months ago, when Microsoft started to encrypt the XAP files.
As for modified firmware Microsoft is using Secure Boot to tackle the problem at a much lower level than Android and iOS devices do. Due to that it might be quite some time before anyone figures out a way to do it. And even phones like the HTC One X have not yet been broken (at least the versions that use Nvidias Tegra 3). It was similar with several Sony devices.
But in the end to enable this on a WP8 device it would mean HSPL, CustomROM and modified XAP-Files to allow for pirated Apps. Comparing this to Android where you only modify the APK and allow sideloading using a Checkbox I believe we will a lot more pirated Apps on Android than on WP.
As for: I want to provide my App for free without using the Marketplace - ähm... what would be the benefit to the user? Aside from Hacks they benefit from the fact that Apps are tested for stability, to be Malware-Free and that you can discover them without too much effort right from your phone.
The only thing I believe you're right is that actually lots of people will go for an OS where they can pirate Apps easily. There are enough threads around here were people tell you upfront that they believe that having paid several 100 $ for a device entitles them to get the software for free.
StevieBallz said:
....
As for: I want to provide my App for free without using the Marketplace - ähm... what would be the benefit to the user? Aside from Hacks they benefit from the fact that Apps are tested for stability, to be Malware-Free and that you can discover them without too much effort right from your phone.
....
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Yeah, right.
Like we saw on apple store, and the android market.
(you must be either kidding, or naive)
And as for users thinking paying few 100$ for a device and thinking it entitles them for free apps - well -
people became used to having free programs, and there are many good free programs.
Besides that - I do not support software piracy, but I do believe that you should have the freedom to do whatever you want with the device you payed a lot of good money for, and that the manufacturer should not put you behind bars and in chains, just so they can make more profit from you.
And dont think otherwise - they lock the device for the sole reason of taking some percentage of the money you pay for the apps,
and no other reason.
So every app would have to pass through their, and only their checkout point, and bring them more money.
Android market has no certification process while Apple's and Microsoft's does.
I didn't try to imply that you would want it for the reason of pirating Apps but for most people this is the reason they desire that feature.
But in the end we're talking about the rationale for developers and that is where your (paid) Apps are a lot better protected on WP or iOS than on Android. If this actually benefits you in the case of WP is a different discussion due to the fact that your potential market is smaller. But given that even though Android has a much bigger marketshare than iOS by now developers make a lot more money on iOS it seems the closed marketplaces actually benefit developers in that regard.
StevieBallz said:
Android market has no certification process while Apple's and Microsoft's does.
I didn't try to imply that you would want it for the reason of pirating Apps but for most people this is the reason they desire that feature.
But in the end we're talking about the rationale for developers and that is where your (paid) Apps are a lot better protected on WP or iOS than on Android. If this actually benefits you in the case of WP is a different discussion due to the fact that your potential market is smaller. But given that even though Android has a much bigger marketshare than iOS by now developers make a lot more money on iOS it seems the closed marketplaces actually benefit developers in that regard.
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The same goes for PC apps.
And people still develop apps for PCs.
This is, in my opinion, some kind of propaganda (not to say brainwash) from the manufacturers,
who's only intent is to make more profit for themselves, and want to recruit the developers for their own goal.
Software piracy have been here since forever, and the software industry has always been growing.
I still hold my opinion that the manufacturer must not have me in chains and behind bars.
I believe the manufacturer must let me do whatever I want with my device.
Let me load whatever apps i want, from any source, and not limit me or force me to pay them more and more money over the life of the device.
I'm not saying that it is not a valid desire to be able to do those things - I said it benefits developers if they are not possible. They don't have to care about piracy that much. And instead of putting together a sophisticated scheme to protect their applications (like they have been doing on the PC for more then a decade) they can concentrate on the actual content.
Do you believe PC games that came on floppy discs asked you about keys from the manual just for fun or to avoid copies? Do you believe the industry moved to CDs only because of the additional space or because they could not be easily copied for quite some time? Does Diablo 3 require an online connection because they could not implement a game that could run on the PC only?
Providing those protections in the OS itself takes a big burden off most developers. The 30 % cut Apple or Microsoft take is a big part of what big companies would earn with their software, given that they already have payment solutions in place and might be able to provide storage and bandwidth cheaper. For Indie developers it would be a lot harder to organize all this.
But instead of answering the question on pirac that thread was about y you're completely missing the point and going on a crusade (and your points from a users perspective definitely are valid).
Apourv said:
Me and my friend, (who is a budding app developer for android) ran into discussion about "Android JB vs WP8", and after many aspects, we came to "developer benefits", there I said that Android is not good for developers bcoz people SIDELOAD app and nothing can detect a pirated app. That's the sad truth.
But on WP8 there's no way to SIDELOAD app, so No piracy of apps on WP8.
My friend said there are WP8 custom ROMS available and WP8 can also be rooted. So there maybe ways when people use Pirated apps on WP8 also.
So who is correct Me or my friend? Are there ways on WP8.
Sent from my GT-S5570 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
There are no WP8 custom ROMs, only WP7, and only for select devices. As far as I know, app piracy was effectively killed off even for a fully "rooted" WP7 device now that the apps come in an encrypted package. WP8 devices with an SD card can sideload apps, but it's a feature, not an illegal act. You get the encrypted package straight from windowsphone.com, and when you sideload it via SD card, it checks with the marketplace to see if you already own this app and if you have purchased it- otherwise you get the trial.
So android is significantly less secure in this area, your friend is wrong.
StevieBallz said:
I'm not saying that it is not a valid desire to be able to do those things - I said it benefits developers if they are not possible. They don't have to care about piracy that much. And instead of putting together a sophisticated scheme to protect their applications (like they have been doing on the PC for more then a decade) they can concentrate on the actual content.
Do you believe PC games that came on floppy discs asked you about keys from the manual just for fun or to avoid copies? Do you believe the industry moved to CDs only because of the additional space or because they could not be easily copied for quite some time? Does Diablo 3 require an online connection because they could not implement a game that could run on the PC only?
Providing those protections in the OS itself takes a big burden off most developers. The 30 % cut Apple or Microsoft take is a big part of what big companies would earn with their software, given that they already have payment solutions in place and might be able to provide storage and bandwidth cheaper. For Indie developers it would be a lot harder to organize all this.
But instead of answering the question on pirac that thread was about y you're completely missing the point and going on a crusade (and your points from a users perspective definitely are valid).
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Pretty much this.
As a developer, I love the fact that the WP marketplace protects my app from almost anything a hacker can throw at it, because it protects several aspects I invested in the app:
1) Time. A lot of time. I don't like it when people use what I invested months of research and coding for free, just because they are too lazy to search the marketplace, but are devious enough to google the app and download it from some obscure location (the irony).
2) My intellectual property: I've made the app, therefore I should have complete control over who can download it. How would you feel if you invested a lot in a car, and some random people of the street simply gets in and drives your car away?
3)Coding and researching is certainly not an easy task. If it were, then everyone would be a developer. Pirating my app is like asking me to give away my talents for nothing in return.
Although it is extremely easy for outsiders to judge my app and say it is not worth the money, they really have no idea how much time and effort was put into it. It is a service I provide for you, and as with any service you need to pay for it...upfront or by staring at adds.
Considering that without the OEM I would not be able to create the app at all, and you would not be able to use it either, it is only natural for them to ask a percentage of the profit from the app. It is how business works.
mcosmin222 said:
Pretty much this.
As a developer, I love the fact that the WP marketplace protects my app from almost anything a hacker can throw at it, because it protects several aspects I invested in the app:
1) Time. A lot of time. I don't like it when people use what I invested months of research and coding for free, just because they are too lazy to search the marketplace, but are devious enough to google the app and download it from some obscure location (the irony).
2) My intellectual property: I've made the app, therefore I should have complete control over who can download it. How would you feel if you invested a lot in a car, and some random people of the street simply gets in and drives your car away?
3)Coding and researching is certainly not an easy task. If it were, then everyone would be a developer. Pirating my app is like asking me to give away my talents for nothing in return.
Although it is extremely easy for outsiders to judge my app and say it is not worth the money, they really have no idea how much time and effort was put into it. It is a service I provide for you, and as with any service you need to pay for it...upfront or by staring at adds.
Considering that without the OEM I would not be able to create the app at all, and you would not be able to use it either, it is only natural for them to ask a percentage of the profit from the app. It is how business works.
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Click to collapse
Comparing an App to a car is totally inappropriate.
If someone drove away in your car, you do not have this car anymore.
If someone installed an app you wrote - well, you still have another copy, and can produce a million more copies.
Som30ne said:
Comparing an App to a car is totally inappropriate.
If someone drove away in your car, you do not have this car anymore.
If someone installed an app you wrote - well, you still have another copy, and can produce a million more copies.
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Click to collapse
He has a very simplistic view on piracy, which is what most people who think they're losing something have. It's hard for them to wrap their heads around new concepts like "pirated does not equal lost sales". It's mostly the RIAA's fault that the practice of sharing is deemed amoral and gave it the misnomer: "piracy". Actual sales lost because of piracy are negligible. I'm not saying it's ok for people to just take without paying, I'm saying you need to realize what is actually happening. Most "pirates" are poor students with no money to spare, kids who have no money of their own, and the most numerous "pirate" of all: those who cannot access a store to legally buy the product.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
Som30ne said:
The same goes for PC apps.
And people still develop apps for PCs.
This is, in my opinion, some kind of propaganda (not to say brainwash) from the manufacturers,
who's only intent is to make more profit for themselves, and want to recruit the developers for their own goal.
Software piracy have been here since forever, and the software industry has always been growing.
I still hold my opinion that the manufacturer must not have me in chains and behind bars.
I believe the manufacturer must let me do whatever I want with my device.
Let me load whatever apps i want, from any source, and not limit me or force me to pay them more and more money over the life of the device.
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Click to collapse
This. And Also, Poecifer, your just the Fandroid, since the discussion was brought ou with no intention to accuse each other party and start a flame war as usual, so just stfu if you don't have anything useful to say.
As a wp developer, i'd like to say that not beeing able to sideload apps freely at times is just a pain in the a**...personally I own a Sony Xperia J and a Lumia 710...my friend is an Android Dev and doesn't have all this kind of limitation...
Hi there,
I was just wondering if there is a jailbreak or sideloading coming to windows phone 8 ,or maybe something like cydia "as on ios" , installing tweaks and stuff on wp 8 because of its lack of apps and modifications, because microsoft is moving like a turtle in developing and updating wp 8 with the simplest features.
I do have a Lumia 920 and i really like it but lack of apps and modification is driving me crazy!!!
so back to our basic question, is there some sort of hacking or dev group that are willing to develop a jailbreak or something like that?
If you were to read the Dev&Hacking sub-forum here, you'd see that people are working on it. This isn't just some magical process where a bunch of hackers sit down, drink a bunch of Red Bull, and write a jailbreak; it is a slow, unreliable, and largely luck-based process undertaken by various volunteers in our free time.
you mean ansar?
is ansar researching on how to jailbreak it? I agree its been forever but understand I have to patiently wait for the hackers to crack it, where or what threads can I read about their progress?
I don't think you actually understand. "Progress" implies and iterative process, where what comes in the future builds on what came before. That's not really how this kind of thing works. Getting from a breakthrough to a widely usable hack can be measured as progress, but getting to that breakthrough... it could happen this afternoon, or it could happen in six months, or it might never happen. "Progress" has no meaning here.
If you want to read our discussions on the topic, the Dev&Hacking subforum is the obvious place here at XDA-Devs; you might also see some discussion at WPCentral.
I haven't seen or heard anything from ansar.ath.gr in months; if he's active here, it's not on this forum. Some of the people from the WP7 forums who actually found the meaningful hacks, like Cotulla and Heathcliff74, are looking, though. Additionally, some people from Windows RT (which is similar to WP8 in many ways) are also looking.
we must start a bounty or kickstarter
GoodDayToDie said:
I don't think you actually understand. "Progress" implies and iterative process, where what comes in the future builds on what came before. That's not really how this kind of thing works. Getting from a breakthrough to a widely usable hack can be measured as progress, but getting to that breakthrough... it could happen this afternoon, or it could happen in six months, or it might never happen. "Progress" has no meaning here.
If you want to read our discussions on the topic, the Dev&Hacking subforum is the obvious place here at XDA-Devs; you might also see some discussion at WPCentral.
I haven't seen or heard anything from ansar.ath.gr in months; if he's active here, it's not on this forum. Some of the people from the WP7 forums who actually found the meaningful hacks, like Cotulla and Heathcliff74, are looking, though. Additionally, some people from Windows RT (which is similar to WP8 in many ways) are also looking.
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Click to collapse
ok we need to properly pay a hacker and start a bounty or kickstarter campaign, how should we go about doing this? should we start a bounty on xda like they did for the htc titan hspl or go on kickstarter and what hacker will get the bounty or when the bounty is large enough we present it to a hacker?
Bounties like that are sometimes really good, though they can be difficult to do properly; a lot of "hackers" already have day jobs, and if you want them to work outside of normal hours purely on a for-pay basis, it needs to be a *lot* of pay. When somebody is already making well into 6 digits USD / year, "hiring" hackers is not cheap.
Additionally, remember, this is not something that you can just throw money at to make it happen. There are enough vulnerabilities found in Windows each year that I'm sure there *are* ways out, but most of them are found either by white-hats (who report the issues to MS without releasing them publicly) or black-hats (who use them maliciously, or sell them on the black market). Only on rare occasion does an exploitable vuln appear somewhere that it can be adapted for our use before MS gets around to patching it (although the odds are good that the phone patch rate will be much slower).
It just seems hopeless
Sent from my SGH-T899M using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
you can developer unlock your than you can sideload some apps. i've done it.
a jailbreak is now not aviable.
sorry for my bad english i'm from germany
Habib.Mouissat said:
you can developer unlock your than you can sideload some apps. i've done it.
a jailbreak is now not aviable.
sorry for my bad english i'm from germany
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you actually pay the fees associated, or did you use a workaround? I paid my one time dues to Android dev, not going to pay annually to toy within the box of windows dev. If I had solid idea I wanted to bring to the MS table maybe, but $99/yr, not for experimentation.
ECCsimmons said:
Did you actually pay the fees associated, or did you use a workaround? I paid my one time dues to Android dev, not going to pay annually to toy within the box of windows dev. If I had solid idea I wanted to bring to the MS table maybe, but $99/yr, not for experimentation.
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Click to collapse
If you are looking for free stuff, you came to the wrong place.
This is a DEVELOPER'S forum not a place where you can demand things and get all the whistles and bells for your phone.
If you wanna sideload, just pay like the rest of us. Hurry up, till next month, the dev unlock is only 20$.
And nobody cares what you paid for android.
mcosmin222 said:
If you are looking for free stuff, you came to the wrong place.
This is a DEVELOPER'S forum not a place where you can demand things and get all the whistles and bells for your phone.
If you wanna sideload, just pay like the rest of us. Hurry up, till next month, the dev unlock is only 20$.
And nobody cares what you paid for android.
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Click to collapse
Wow I don't think I demanded much of anything.. simply stated my opinion. This is why forums become tedious to even comment into. If I didn't something wrong let me know, constructively. Don't have to be a jerk about it.. and if this is a general dev forum why you not care about android like stated? ... simply lame
ECCsimmons said:
Did you actually pay the fees associated, or did you use a workaround? I paid my one time dues to Android dev, not going to pay annually to toy within the box of windows dev. If I had solid idea I wanted to bring to the MS table maybe, but $99/yr, not for experimentation.
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Click to collapse
no i get a developer account from my school
ECCsimmons said:
Wow I don't think I demanded much of anything.. simply stated my opinion. This is why forums become tedious to even comment into. If I didn't something wrong let me know, constructively. Don't have to be a jerk about it.. and if this is a general dev forum why you not care about android like stated? ... simply lame
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Click to collapse
We don't care about android here because:
a) this is the windows phone forum. for android forum, go to the android forum.
b) why did you bring the payment for android in the first place? this is the windows phone forum, not the android forum. Different OS, different rules.
c) 99% of people asking for sideloads want to do so to avoid paying apps. This is a developer forum and we take offense because WE make the apps you wanna get for free, instead of paying us for our hard work.
d) you can already install apps from SD cards, and you can homebrew apps with dev unlocks (there is even a way to get free dev unlock without being an actual student).
I can understand your desire for custom roms and stuff, but sideloading usually leads to piracy. If you were asked to make a tool that would latter be used to rob you, I do not believe you would be so constructive about it.
Haha!
Sent from my SGH-T899M using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
installing windows phone virtually on windows pc
has anybody run windows phone 8 or lower OS on windows pc virtually ?
if yes plz guide me to do so....
The only thing I wish I could side load is the Microsoft youtube app that was pulled. That would be worth 20 buck.
But I would imagine side loading is one part of the puzzle only, I bet extracting apps from a phone is probably not possible.
Extracting apps is easy once we have read access to the app's install folder. Getting that read access is the hard part.
RobbieRobski said:
The only thing I wish I could side load is the Microsoft youtube app that was pulled. That would be worth 20 buck.
But I would imagine side loading is one part of the puzzle only, I bet extracting apps from a phone is probably not possible.
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Click to collapse
i have the Microsoft youtube xap and im developer unlocked but you can't sideload it its encrypted i wish someone could fix that sigh
noelito said:
i have the Microsoft youtube xap and im developer unlocked but you can't sideload it its encrypted i wish someone could fix that sigh
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Click to collapse
Gentlemen, could somebody please confirm that for the interop unlock to work on Samsung ATIV S one has to do developer unlock and purchase a developer license for his Microsoft account? Correct?
Just want to make sure I dig it right.
Thanks.
You need *some* kind of developer unlock. A license from MS is one way, but not the only way; there's also DreamSpark (student-only but free) or I think you get a two-app-limit unlock (and the limit will be utterly removed by the interop-unlock, that's what it *is*) just by entering any valid Live ID into the registration tool.
Hello boys and gurls, this is just a way from me to "scream" one frustration I've got since I've started to try custom ROMs on my OP 6T device I own since February this year.
I'm an Android fan and user since back in the 2.3 era, you know, the days when Android names had a "tasty" name that could made you "swallow" one way or another. I remember that on my 1st device, Galaxy one plus, I've encountered 1st time this frustration I'm trying to point now, and that was a semi-bricked device camed from a "bad flash"... Those days are long gone and isn't good to live nostalgic way, because that will stop progress, they say...
About progress, here is where I really wanted to get... In my opinion, with this A/B partition system, Google messed up things so bad that could even get to the point that developing will go down so bad that even "he" will feel it. Sorry to say this Google, but this ain't really a progress regarding development of an Open Source you actually benefit from... I'm a bit frustrated regarding of what this system brings when flashing/testing ROMs for the fine people developers are. Because I can imagine this messed up way of do things by bringing up A/B up in development will lower the testers and beta testers to a point where only a few users will have the guts and most important time to actually test a custom ROM... And that's just because of this "idiotic" thing you bought up with latest Android versions...
Like I've said in title, this manifest is made for all the ones who feel the same about wasted time testing and failing when comes about something that you, Google, benefit.
Regarding anyone who wants to add anything about this or maybe just to make the required number of posts so he can use the forum as he wants (hello to all this new Android newcomers BTW), feel free to discuss the subject, or point finger at me, at me a person who thinks that this new system (not a flawless one as Google intended to be) is pure crap that will make lots of devs or testers to just quit be part of this awesome life that Android brings ...
I agree and disagree. I think the A/B partitions are good for non-root users and those are the 99.5% of people with a smart phone.
For root users it is a pain in the ass however, I never really had any major problems with A/B layout because you can always flash back to stock.
I dont like it but not enough to make a big deal over.
Scott said:
I agree and disagree. I think the A/B partitions are good for non-root users and those are the 99.5% of people with a smart phone.
For root users it is a pain in the ass however, I never really had any major problems with A/B layout because you can always flash back to stock.
I dont like it but not enough to make a big deal over.
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Click to collapse
Well as I've said, it kills the mood to test/use/flash customs because you can end up with a soft brick (or worse) more easily than before.
chasemyass said:
Well as I've said, it kills the mood to test/use/flash customs because you can end up with a soft brick (or worse) more easily than before.
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Click to collapse
Yes, this is true but if you are careful you can avoid 99% of the issues. Im not saying your point is not valid but I am asking that you look at it from OEM / GOOGLE side.
They used to have updates, if bad, brick phones. Now the phone can roll back to the last known good operating system without issue if OTA corrupts boot.
Its a tough pill to swallow because it benefits and hurts different people in different ways.
Scott said:
Yes, this is true but if you are careful you can avoid 99% of the issues. Im not saying your point is not valid but I am asking that you look at it from OEM / GOOGLE side.
They used to have updates, if bad, brick phones. Now the phone can roll back to the last known good operating system without issue if OTA corrupts boot.
Its a tough pill to swallow because it benefits and hurts different people in different ways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well maybe you can get to a back point where all was good during a flash, but not if you are rooted. At least I never managed to do it and ended up with using msm, unlocking bl, flash twrp, etc. That's a waste of time tbh beside the fact that if you want to actually test ROMs is better (safer) to play on a smartphone you don't use day by day... This is where it hurts on some "flash'ohoolics" that wants to test more than one cooked ROM to see what's best for him, like I always did.
Google doesn't care of custom roms. Even if Android is allegedly open source, the reality is that the Android environment (certification process, filesystem design, even bootloader security and access) is meant to make custom roms and above all root access more and more difficult to implement.
That explain all changes made to Android and future ones. Google stated several times that simple root access is not legit and is dangerous for the user. Especially now that phones are more and more used for very critical usage as banking, payment, car opening and starting and so on. The chain of identification and legal responsibility will lead more and more to tight closed phones even on Android.
Striatum_bdr said:
Google doesn't care of custom roms. Even if Android is allegedly open source
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Android isn't open source, AOSP is. Android = AOSP + proprietary closed source blobs.
grt67DFqyu said:
Android isn't open source, AOSP is. Android = AOSP + proprietary closed source blobs.
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Click to collapse
That only proves my point, proprietary is badly compatible with custom rom, and needs many Dev effort... Until time when those efforts won't be enough or too heavy to be done.
This belongs in some Google Android dev forum regarding the architecture. Or, feel free to get hired by them and influence them anyway you please.
Striatum_bdr said:
Google doesn't care of custom roms.....The chain of identification and legal responsibility will lead more and more to tight closed phones even on Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can partially agree with you about Google, because the good thing about an open source is that you can "borrow" some modifications made by others, so closing up or limiting the development isn't such a bright ideea, but that is just my humble opinion.
Regarding the closed phones you mention, well that brings me back to the point where jailbreak was an intense way to do things and I did once on one of my old iPhone 4, and that just because I wanted to customize it a bit more, as I was getting bored of it.
Beside that, I really think that if we manage to read, pay attention to details and act like a conscious person, we all know what unlocking BL and rooting can do regarding our precious smartphones. But if you know that and still use your rooted smartphone to save delicate things and/or credentials regarding your bank account and so on, can't really blame anyone else for it... This ain't about security, because I can think that we most users agree that's something beyond us, but more like annoying adds, customize more the look of your gadged and last, but not least, trying to squeeze as much as it can be done from it when comes to whatever you do with it...
I still stick with the point I've started this discussion thread, that A/B partition sucks, even if Google hides it behind a safer window towards using the gadget... Sometime I think that all this pushing forward with all modifications made by Google, behind any reason, is just a road to make it difficult to use it without a ROM agreed by them...