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Is it possible to implement some sort of block for this kind of system dump?
Slashdot link
Could it be as simple as leaving USB debugging off and using a pin/pattern lock? Or would it require something as complex as whole-disk (card) encryption like TrueCrypt?
It really depends..
First.. those kinds of articles do have a way of getting blown out of proportion.
I've heard a lot about what people "can" do only to find out that when you really start digging into it... they made false/misleading claims.
Although if the article is to be believed.. a password wouldn't do any good as you can read "defeats password protection."
Something along the lines of truecrypt would be a prerequisite..
Also.. there are some major legal problems.. like sensitive data on phones ranging from a frisky girlfriend/boyfriend to confidential patient information in a doctor/lawyers email..
Pull battery
If I have helped press thanks.
Without a warrant, what they are doing is against the law. To obtain a warrant they would have to specify what was being looked for and need to be reasonably confident the phone have evidence leading to prosecution of believed criminal offense.
Remember, Lawful and Legal are two entirely different things. So they may be searching phones unlawfully while legally within bounds.
Law = Immutable rule, you know them with out being told (ex, Do not steal, Do not kill)
Statute = Legislation given the force of law (ex. seat belt , any "rule" you must be told of)
Code = Legislation given the force of law by Corp. (ex. local code- dry counties, no smoking in city bars, must wear black shoes to work at walmart < lol )
Encryption will stop this. I don't see it being a problem though due to the fact nothing found will be usable in ANY court of law without having obtained a warrant. Know and use your rights, as they will continue to be taken away until "YOU" draw the line in the sand and say No More.
Also: This is not new tech, they been doing this for some time, had the capability at least. Agree with Snow_Fox.... it is blown out of proportion, but for other reason. Its not that they cant, its that at this time, it is not a rampant thing. From there do what you will ......
Agreed with everything said with regards to legality. However, our government seems to do a lot of things illegally. It seems that all a law enforcement person has to say is "terrorism" and they get a hall pass for anything.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I am just glad to see such responses to this.. We need to spread the word.
Maybe its time to create a website dedicated to educating people of the (what should be shocking and horrifying) loss of rights we seem to be having.
halfsoul said:
Agreed with everything said with regards to legality. However, our government seems to do a lot of things illegally. It seems that all a law enforcement person has to say is "terrorism" and they get a hall pass for anything.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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Oh yes, I agree, they will/do. The thing is we need to be brave enough to stand up and so NO and "enforce our rights", or they will surely continue to walk all over the scared general population.
Also, it is clearly illegal. To search your home pc, a warrant must be obtained. To get you home phone records, a warrant must be obtained. To listen to your phone calls, a warrant must be obtained. To look at your photo album in your hall closet, a warrant must be obtained. To search the locked trunk/glove compartment of your vehicle, a warrant must be obtained.
Smartphones are comparable to all of the above combined into one.A warrant less search is definitely illegal and unlawful and a violation of rights. Hold some feets to the fire, learn to say NO, consequences will never be the same
Snow_fox said:
I am just glad to see such responses to this.. We need to spread the word.
Maybe its time to create a website dedicated to educating people of the (what should be shocking and horrifying) loss of rights we seem to be having.
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Click to collapse
There is a website called eff.org
but unfortunately most Americas are too distracted and really don't care!
I f#$%n care while most of the people i know, have no idea what is happeneing!
My view is humans get used to small changes but not big changes. What people don't realize is the changes to our rights is small and slow but one day WE WILL WAKE UP to a world of complete control and the idea of freedom won't even be comprehendable to future generations!
Maybe Big Brother is inevitable but thanks to terrorism, it has only accelerated the progression to Complete Control!
Sent from my ADR6400L
bulletproof1013 said:
Pull battery
If I have helped press thanks.
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Click to collapse
Or turn it off?
Human smugglers get around police being able to look at their phones by keeping the battery out of the phone
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I don't think pulling the battery or turning it off is reasonable. If someone has hardware to do a dump, surely they can provide power and turn it on.
I'm looking for something more along the lines of disabling the usb port or encrypting the sd cards.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
halfsoul said:
I don't think pulling the battery or turning it off is reasonable. If someone has hardware to do a dump, surely they can provide power and turn it on.
I'm looking for something more along the lines of disabling the usb port or encrypting the sd cards.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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Power without a battery? Tell me how and we'll make trillions!
Added: If you're that worried about what someone can discern from your phone, you got bigger issues.
it is soo vague i think this is a conceptual project and not something being deployed, if it were in use there would be more details, does it communicate over cellular? wifi? bluetooth? usb? are gsm phones safe?, are cdma phones safe?
can it be done without the driver knowing about it? or is it a search you can refuse? can you protect against it by encrypting the sd card, the sdcard + /system + /data +/cache?
what security exploits does it use?
Sounds to me like a technology that is available and there is no evidence yet that it is being abused. Odd though that the article has obvious errors, stating that Michigan has no cell phone laws, as texting and driving will get you pulled over. This opens the door to more abuse by police than worrying about them illegaly searching my phone. All they have to do is see you looking at your phone and they can claim that you appeared to be texting, thus justifying the traffic stop. I in no way condone texting/driving but it seems that we have given the police free reign to pull anyone over virtually at will given the plethora of "primary" offenses.
cappysw10 said:
Power without a battery? Tell me how and we'll make trillions!
Added: If you're that worried about what someone can discern from your phone, you got bigger issues.
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Click to collapse
Please tell me you're joking. The micro usb cable provides power + data simultaneously, try it for yourself if you don't believe me. And freedom & privacy should be everyone's biggest issue -- at least, all Americans.
Dani897 said:
it is soo vague i think this is a conceptual project and not something being deployed, if it were in use there would be more details, does it communicate over cellular? wifi? bluetooth? usb? are gsm phones safe?, are cdma phones safe?
can it be done without the driver knowing about it? or is it a search you can refuse? can you protect against it by encrypting the sd card, the sdcard + /system + /data +/cache?
what security exploits does it use?
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If you followed the links to read the articles you would see that it is already deployed and in use, hence the ACLU FOIA request.
According to Cellebrite's website here, the Captivate is by cable (screencap attached).
Not much info about the exploits' particulars, but here are some choice snippets from Cellebrite's site:
Superior handset support - Over 3,000 handset models supported, with monthly software updates for newly released devices prior to carrier launch. The system includes more than 85 data cables for connecting 95% of all handset models worldwide. Cellebrite has exclusive carrier agreements and works directly with cellular phone manufacturers to receive pre-production handsets prior to retail launch.
Complete extraction of mobile phone data - Contacts, SMS Messages, pictures, videos, call logs (dialed, received, missed), ESN/IMEI, audio files, and deleted SMS/Call History from the SIM/USIM.
Memory Dump - Complete dump of phone file system for select handsets, providing the ability to extract otherwise inaccessible files, and user passwords.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And here you can see it in action.
halfsoul said:
Please tell me you're joking. The micro usb cable provides power + data simultaneously, try it for yourself if you don't believe me. And freedom & privacy should be everyone's biggest issue -- at least, all Americans.
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ACTUALLY you may want to try it yourself. the phone DOES NOT RUN OR MOUNT without battery. take out battery, plug it in, and dont post anything on xda until it mounts to your PC... I'll wait here for you...
If you Plug it in first and remove the battery it will run for 22 seconds then shut off (with official Samsung AC charger) and 4 seconds with aftermarket "USB" charging
bulletproof1013 said:
Pull battery
If I have helped press thanks.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, that's going to do a lot of good.
Surely if they are asking for the phone they will also either ask you to stop taking out the battery or if you have already done so, ask for the battery also?
In either case it is no different than simply refusing to give the phone. Either you get away with it because they are taking advantage of people being intimidated into giving them permission or they arrest you for refusing to give them the phone or the battery.
Even worse, taking the battery out just makes you look like a smartass if they see you doing it.
TRusselo said:
ACTUALLY you may want to try it yourself. the phone DOES NOT RUN OR MOUNT without battery. take out battery, plug it in, and dont post anything on xda until it mounts to your PC... I'll wait here for you...
If you Plug it in first and remove the battery it will run for 22 seconds then shut off (with official Samsung AC charger) and 4 seconds with aftermarket "USB" charging
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You're right, I stand corrected.
jimk9 said:
Yeah, that's going to do a lot of good.
Surely if they are asking for the phone they will also either ask you to stop taking out the battery or if you have already done so, ask for the battery also?
In either case it is no different than simply refusing to give the phone. Either you get away with it because they are taking advantage of people being intimidated into giving them permission or they arrest you for refusing to give them the phone or the battery.
Even worse, taking the battery out just makes you look like a smartass if they see you doing it.
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Exactly. Especially for those of us with cases.
In addition, this has broader application than just keeping your info private from authorities. What about if your phone is lost or stolen? You wouldn't have an opportunity to pull the battery.
but im sure if they have a dump computer, it wouldnt be a far reach at all to have a variable voltage power supply with 2 tiny clip on leads....
but there is any EASY fix for this,
but not capable on our captivate, needs some programming...
in the newer phones they have NFC chip readers, (Near Field Communication)
get a micro chip NFC implanted into your body, and have the new generation phones encrypt its whole OS to your Chip ID on first boot, and needs your chip near by to do anything at all or unlock it by storing your chip in flash memory temporarily until locked again.
easy fix.
As long as there are devices that that store information there will be devices that can swipe it. As for if it is right or not, that is not my place to say. A simple lock will require that the cops get a search warrent for it, so just keep it locked.
I personally hate people who text and drive but there will always be people that do it no matter who they hurt while they do it.
There will be no true way to stop this if what they are saying is true. As they would need to be working with the OS makers for it to work. So while these devices may have just come into light, they have been around for awhile. We will keep an eye on it, but to be honest all that one could really do is not keep anything on the phone that you have to worry about the cops seeing.
So to give a little history I have a Droid 1 rooted with CM6, that boots my custom made Ubuntu 10.04 ARM image from it's SD Micro. Well, I upgraded to a Droid Bionic this last week and decided to jump into root right away, which went very smoothly using petes root tools one click method. Then the hack came out for using the wifi hotspot, and that worked just fine, then I removed the bloatware, no issues... but then when trying to run the ubuntu.sh script to create a "chroot" environment for Ubuntu (androlinux.com), I found that the device does not support loopback devices out of the box, rooted or not. And when the device rebooted... it just hung on to the Moto Dual Core splash screen and refused to boot. No matter what I did I could not get the thing to boot back up, eventually after 2 hours of pulling the battery and trying to recover through the built in "recovery" with no luck... I sped down to my local verizon HQ and had them take a look... they were also unable to get the phone to boot and ultimately replaced my 6 day old Bionic.... Just a warning to those of you who may be looking to go this route, probably should wait for a full on custom recovery and rooted rom before trying to boot any ARM images.
My my old Bionic RIP....
edw00rd said:
So to give a little history I have a Droid 1 rooted with CM6, that boots my custom made Ubuntu 10.04 ARM image from it's SD Micro. Well, I upgraded to a Droid Bionic this last week and decided to jump into root right away, which went very smoothly using petes root tools one click method. Then the hack came out for using the wifi hotspot, and that worked just fine, then I removed the bloatware, no issues... but then when trying to run the ubuntu.sh script to create a "chroot" environment for Ubuntu (androlinux.com), I found that the device does not support loopback devices out of the box, rooted or not. And when the device rebooted... it just hung on to the Moto Dual Core splash screen and refused to boot. No matter what I did I could not get the thing to boot back up, eventually after 2 hours of pulling the battery and trying to recover through the built in "recovery" with no luck... I sped down to my local verizon HQ and had them take a look... they were also unable to get the phone to boot and ultimately replaced my 6 day old Bionic.... Just a warning to those of you who may be looking to go this route, probably should wait for a full on custom recovery and rooted rom before trying to boot any ARM images.
My my old Bionic RIP....
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Pretty dickheaded move in my opinion. I see that you mad no effort here to get support on getting your device to boot. Another fine example of how people suck. IMHO
I agree. You should have sought help here before returning to Verizon. You could have recovered your device. Its people like you that are driving up the price smart phones and making carriers and manufacturers lock down the phone. You get into doing stuff you don't know about and then when you screw up you make someone else eat the cost of your mistake. Thanks for bringing this to our attention but, most people know not to try and load custom software to a locked bootloader and stock recovery. Genius.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using xda premium
Brutal.... but funny.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using xda premium
This kind of **** gets tee squar's panties in a fraudulent bunch.
facepalm
what is this asshattery?
Hmm well.... you must be one of thoze google advocating yuppies falling in line like all the other little lemmings out there not giving two $#1ts about your privacy or the fact that all your searches are archived and filed kindly and neatly under peoples desks YOU DONT KNOW and disseminated to other corporates for a proffit... not to mention profiling... sorry friends but im a free citizen in this B30tch and i have the right to do whatever the F i feel like with MY phone that i pay for insurance on, and ridiculous fees for other BS the ITU deems necesary that we pay for... I absolutely love the fact that u think i drove up the price of this smart phone by tinkering with it.... ya take a statistics class then go take a look at verizons market cap and while ur at it take a look at google and motorola. These companies are, no kidding arround, ruining america. So u guys do what u like and join that good ol trendy movement. I on the other hand believe in my rights and privacy.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using XDA App
You knowingly voided your warranty and then fraudulently used said warranty. You're a rationalizing ****. End of story. It's not even about cost or running a good thing, you just have no dignity.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
edw00rd said:
Hmm well.... you must be one of thoze google advocating yuppies falling in line like all the other little lemmings out there not giving two $#1ts about your privacy or the fact that all your searches are archived and filed kindly and neatly under peoples desks YOU DONT KNOW and disseminated to other corporates for a proffit... not to mention profiling... sorry friends but im a free citizen in this B30tch and i have the right to do whatever the F i feel like with MY phone that i pay for insurance on, and ridiculous fees for other BS the ITU deems necesary that we pay for... I absolutely love the fact that u think i drove up the price of this smart phone by tinkering with it.... ya take a statistics class then go take a look at verizons market cap and while ur at it take a look at google and motorola. These companies are, no kidding arround, ruining america. So u guys do what u like and join that good ol trendy movement. I on the other hand believe in my rights and privacy.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using XDA App
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Click to collapse
You still are an idiot for screwing up your phone and not knowing how to fix it. Regardless if we are google sheep, you are part of the reason why you are ruining it for the rest of us.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
edw00rd said:
Hmm well.... you must be one of thoze google advocating yuppies falling in line like all the other little lemmings out there not giving two $#1ts about your privacy or the fact that all your searches are archived and filed kindly and neatly under peoples desks YOU DONT KNOW and disseminated to other corporates for a proffit... not to mention profiling... sorry friends but im a free citizen in this B30tch and i have the right to do whatever the F i feel like with MY phone that i pay for insurance on, and ridiculous fees for other BS the ITU deems necesary that we pay for... I absolutely love the fact that u think i drove up the price of this smart phone by tinkering with it.... ya take a statistics class then go take a look at verizons market cap and while ur at it take a look at google and motorola. These companies are, no kidding arround, ruining america. So u guys do what u like and join that good ol trendy movement. I on the other hand believe in my rights and privacy.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I hope they end up charging you retail price for the replacement phone they gave you. By purchasing that phone and doing what you did, you voided your warranty. It was repairable by other means, but you acted without thinking and returned a bricked phone (your own fault) to Verizon for a working phone, so you could attempt to **** it up like the last one. Stay away from XDA, you make us look bad.
edw00rd said:
Hmm well.... you must be one of thoze google advocating yuppies falling in line like all the other little lemmings out there not giving two $#1ts about your privacy or the fact that all your searches are archived and filed kindly and neatly under peoples desks YOU DONT KNOW and disseminated to other corporates for a proffit... not to mention profiling... sorry friends but im a free citizen in this B30tch and i have the right to do whatever the F i feel like with MY phone that i pay for insurance on, and ridiculous fees for other BS the ITU deems necesary that we pay for... I absolutely love the fact that u think i drove up the price of this smart phone by tinkering with it.... ya take a statistics class then go take a look at verizons market cap and while ur at it take a look at google and motorola. These companies are, no kidding arround, ruining america. So u guys do what u like and join that good ol trendy movement. I on the other hand believe in my rights and privacy.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using XDA App
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Click to collapse
So, did you pay a deductible or was the exchange free?
I'm not going to resort to name calling, nor will I wish any bad luck upon you, OP.
I will, however, ask you this: If you knew enough to come here to post, then why didn't you know enough to look in the subforum two below this one titled Droid Bionic Android Development, and specifically at this post which is hovering in the top 5 or so responded to posts - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1262540
I mean, reading the first post provides you with a link to http://briefmobile.com/droid-bionic-receives-fastboot-recovery-files which tells you in no terms that this is a good potential fix for
This Fastboot XML zip package could potentially assist bricked users with recovery back to the stock state. Motorola’s created a new file format for recovery that allows Bionic users to recover from a case of messed up software.
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The reason everyone here is attacking you is that you, who want to call us
one of thoze google advocating yuppies falling in line like all the other little lemmings out there not giving two $#1ts about your privacy or the fact that all your searches are archived and filed kindly and neatly under peoples desks YOU DONT KNOW and disseminated to other corporates for a proffit... not to mention profiling...
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- when you yourself explicitly stated that
So to give a little history I have a Droid 1 rooted with CM6
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- Well, last I checked, the Moto DROID original (I bought one on drop day back in Nov 2009, so I do have a little history with this device of my own) is also a Google Android device.
The reason everyone is getting angry with you is that you basically committed insurance fraud this way, and on top of that, you posted back as if you are entitled to commit said fraud. Those are the facts, and thus everyone is calling you names.
IMO, what you did was wrong, and lawfully, you should be prosecuted. But that is neither here nor there. If the VZW analysts . Moto analysts find enough evidence they may decide to do something - they may not. Who knows?
Next time, look around - this is a developer community, after all, and chances are you really haven't bricked your phone. These guys and gals eat, sleep, and breathe Android.
And they do it well.
"rationalised ****" lol OMG am i ever!!! I will own that!
Some of you actually make sense with the link between me and my "asshattery" and returning my droid. But most of you want to call names and well friends i was just honestly trying to help a community out with what i had suffered through. Ignorantly i have offended you... which was never intended. I assumed that most people are curious cats like myself. And for all of your info so i can put an end to this insurance fraud bs i bought the phone full price and got my second phone at an upgrade cost (had to use my wifes upgrade).... Not free. Hence the sad face in my first post. So all this prosecution crap... no. Voided warranty... yep! And knowingly so... Now some of you are going to retaliate "youre stupid for screwing up your phone and not check online to fix it" well short answer to that is i did check and was unable to find a cure and given some time i probably would have... but well the easy way to say this is hacking is an expensive hobby if it wasnt my phone itd be my comps processor for overclocking it too much (which ive done a number of times)... oh and someone posted about most people know not to try this on an encrypted bootloader... honest to god i didnt think it would effect it at all due to the fact that all i was doing was trying to boot an ARM image off an sd card... and have yet to find why that had any effect on the boot... Oh and another thing this was my very first post here... telling me to leave you guys alone cuz i make you look bad... that hurt :-(
Lol no not really... I love all of you xo...
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using XDA App
This post has now officially made the transition from comedy to farce. I'm not complaining. I enjoy low entertainment as well as high.
Immolate said:
This post has now officially made the transition from comedy to farce. I'm not complaining. I enjoy low entertainment as well as high.
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Lol i thank you for ur ability to have a sense of humor... i would laugh at this as well...
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using XDA App
The level of hypocracy and irony in this thread is astounding
This post started out about putting Ubuntu on a device. An operating system founded on community and sharing with open arms and friendliness. And the person who was attempting it was met with NOTHING but hate and persecution for how he went about resolving a very stressful and worry some situation.
Just cause someone does not handle a situation the way you see that they should, does not give you the right to throw insult after insult at them. Even if there is already a "hate filled band wagon" rolling by. In this community of developers who are presumably good hearted people, why is it not one person stepped up to make this into a real development thread???
I am not a developer and can barely write one line of code in Python. So I wouldn't be able to lend a hand. But as I am on the look out for a completely open device on the Verizon network, I am very interested in being able to put other operating systems on a phone. Especially as Ubuntu will be developing a dedicated phone OS in the next 2 years to go along with their computer and (soon to come) Smart TV OS line up.
Does anyone know of a thread that is honestly trying to get a Verizon phone unlocked to run other OS's?? This one is clearly resided to nothing but childish batter and remarks.
Good on the original poster for trying to keep his cool for the most part though.
**Edit: He did not commit insurance fraud, as I have paid fro the same insurance before and it specifically states that you will be guaranteed a new phone no matter what the issue. Even if it was your fault. It is justified by having to pay for it when you buy the phone, as well and needing to pay a deductible to receive a new phone. I actually put my D1 under the wheel of a car just to get a new phone. Cause I waited too long to learn about rooting and Verizon did an update that blocked root access. And the phone was getting to be sooo slow no matter how few processes I had running or few apps I had installed, that I couldn't take it anymore. Sometimes it would take 3 to 4 seconds just to move left or right on the home screen. I paid 50 dollars and got a Droid 2 Global as a replacement and rooted it with Z4 within 1 hour of getting the phone. Overclocked and tethered it within the first day. The only gripe I have with it is you can't put real custom Roms with custom kernels on this "Global" version cause the boot loader is still locked. Hence why I will not buy another phone that can not have the bootloader unlocked at all.
im pretty sure he didnt use the insurance but the warranty rather, insurance you pay for and pay when you get a replacement. I dont think he paid a dime after bricking his phone. that is where everyone is like wtf?
I did this as well.
I also tried to install ARM Ubuntu on my Bionic. It failed to install. I have not rebooted yet, do you have any suggestions that will save my device? I usually would have backed up the device, but I was so excited about Ubuntu that I forgot fo do so. I'm running .893, rooted (obviously). The only backup I have is from becore I rooted. Thanks.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1262540
This Fixes most soft Bricks and Makes your Phone the way it was out of the box. Stock and no root. its a fresh start. please read instructions carefully.
Woah.. no way!!!
Anyone know anything about this?
http://www.goandroid.co.in/samsung-galaxy-s5-update-brings-performance-tweaks/37180/
quordandis said:
Anyone know anything about this?
http://www.goandroid.co.in/samsung-galaxy-s5-update-brings-performance-tweaks/37180/
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I'm curious about this too. I've been checking the updater and theres no software update available.
The screenshots in that article are for the Canadian variant -- G900W8.
It'll probably take a while for any update to get "certified" by the big @, plus I think I'm going to avoid doing software and security policy updates in case an exploit for this current version is found.
smknutson said:
It'll probably take a while for any update to get "certified" by the big @, plus I think I'm going to avoid doing software and security policy updates in case an exploit for this current version is found.
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I have to wonder how many full-time employees AT&T and Samsung have that do nothing but monitor the web (mostly XDA) for whatever goes on here at XDA so they can react to any potential important discoveries, mods, or developments.
scott14719 said:
I have to wonder how many full-time employees AT&T and Samsung have that do nothing but monitor the web (mostly XDA) for whatever goes on here at XDA so they can react to any potential important discoveries, mods, or developments.
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For the longest time I have thought this..............
I thought I was the only one...
I too also thought this....it had occurred to me that it would be particularly clever and prudent to have your finger on the pulse of your "power users", but then it occurred to me that because it's such a smart idea, they're guaranteed NOT to do it (keeping in line with they're history). So that's my logic....
As nefarious as that sounds, it's almost guaranteed that the engineering portions of Sammy/AT&T that are responsible for security monitor forums and social media such as this. Probably even have moles portraying themselves as ignorant users.
smknutson said:
As nefarious as that sounds, it's almost guaranteed that the engineering portions of Sammy/AT&T that are responsible for security monitor forums and social media such as this. Probably even have moles portraying themselves as ignorant users.
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I'm sure that engineers look at XDA and other developer/user forums out of interest or even as part of the job; but unless something directly affects Samsung or AT&T in a manner that is costing them a significant amount of money I doubt any action is made in response. Remember these are corporations, money/time is not spent chasing a relatively few users who choose modify their phones, even if it is to evade fees and/or modify a locked feature. It just doesn't make a large financial difference.
Apple certainly pursued a cease and desist strategy but I think that was mostly out of a control freak corporate culture. Other than tethering for free,what do rooting and custom ROMs actually cost AT&T or Samsung? We still buy their phones loyally and pay for the service. If it mattered enough they would take greater steps to lock stuff down, or routinely push updates to secure their devices when exploits are found.
Just my take on it - I'm a pretty paranoid dude but not in this regard. We just don't matter much to them.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2721505
I know the qualcomm guys look. Lol
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
TOA Duck said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2721505
I know the qualcomm guys look. Lol
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
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the sad thing is all those files and scripts wouldn't have provided us any solution to root or unlocking the boot loader, those were qualcomm scripts and files but only for signing the mbr/mbl nothing unfortunatley to do with unlocking it or rooting the device in any manor, the certs may have been helpfull in tricking odin in to believing a custom rom was official is the only thing that i could actually see coming out of that.
and I was a little leary of the member in the first place, he offered no tangible proof that the scripts did anything all he did was list a directory of files, and when he was asked to provide proof that he actually rooted or unlocked a bootloader he refused to respond.
delawaredrew said:
I'm sure that engineers look at XDA and other developer/user forums out of interest or even as part of the job; but unless something directly affects Samsung or AT&T in a manner that is costing them a significant amount of money I doubt any action is made in response. Remember these are corporations, money/time is not spent chasing a relatively few users who choose modify their phones, even if it is to evade fees and/or modify a locked feature. It just doesn't make a large financial difference.
Apple certainly pursued a cease and desist strategy but I think that was mostly out of a control freak corporate culture. Other than tethering for free,what do rooting and custom ROMs actually cost AT&T or Samsung? We still buy their phones loyally and pay for the service. If it mattered enough they would take greater steps to lock stuff down, or routinely push updates to secure their devices when exploits are found.
Just my take on it - I'm a pretty paranoid dude but not in this regard. We just don't matter much to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One thought. Samsung and Apple are both making big enterprise plays. My company in it's BYOD program is pushing Samsung hard over other Android phones because they are more locked down with corporate policies mandating encryption and forbidding rooting/jailbreaking coming soon to my employer, I can see how a locked down phone is more attractive to them and could lead to more sales, not yet.
We're not their only market, and in the grand scheme of things, there may be more money for them going this path.
stoobie-doo said:
One thought. Samsung and Apple are both making big enterprise plays. My company in it's BYOD program is pushing Samsung hard over other Android phones because they are more locked down with corporate policies mandating encryption and forbidding rooting/jailbreaking coming soon to my employer, I can see how a locked down phone is more attractive to them and could lead to more sales, not yet.
We're not their only market, and in the grand scheme of things, there may be more money for them going this path.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What they should be doing is making business/gov contracted phone deals locked down, and leaving the consumer phones as is, that's what they should be doing. Honestly TW is pretty good now and wouldn't bother me if I couldn't flash a rom (obviously I want to), however not having root and not being able to actually delete (not just disable) bloatware is f'n annoying lol.
TOA Duck said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2721505
I know the qualcomm guys look. Lol
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh thats interesting. I had argued it was worthless since QC hadn't sent a takedown. May have to take another look.
I saw the root thread is getting clogged down with arguments over the cost to benefit ratio involved with the Turbo root.
So is it worth it? What works and what doesn't? Post your thoughts.
I know several people that root for the sole purpose of having WiFi tether, for those I would think that it is worth it!
But has the wifi tether been achieved yet? I've heard that many are having difficulties.
I think it's also worth nothing that Sunshine has full root and unlocked bootloader for 25$. Now, a small $5 is the difference between full root and unlocked bootloader and write protected half-root system. Admittedly, I am not familiar with having root on a write protected system since I have never owned a system that has this. What I do know is that I have no idea how to edit a system image, nor do I feel any obligation to pay $20 to read a tutorial on how to download a linux VM and waste hours of my life failing at editing system files in hopes that I can achieve what I want to achieve. Perhaps to those more experienced with editing major files like that, the $20 is worth it, but I think for the average android user who appreciates root it may not be.
Basketballhero75 said:
I think it's also worth nothing that Sunshine has full root and unlocked bootloader for 25$. Now, a small $5 is the difference between full root and unlocked bootloader and write protected half-root system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds to me like Sunshine is underpriced then, lol! Hey @jcase, looks like you should charge more.
JulesJam said:
Sounds to me like Sunshine is underpriced then, lol! Hey @jcase, looks like you should charge more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I support what they are doing and the price they charge.
It's not comparable to sunshine, as they are entirely different products. SunShine's goal is just unlock, the included TempRoot is only there to make it work on phones without root.
I will repost my thoughts that I put in the initial release thread for mofo, and thanks to the OP here for creating a discussion thread, I hate being "that guy" who posts off topic. I rarely see anything on the internet that inspires me to bother writing an opinion, but this topic really struck a chord with me.
Personally, I don't fundamentally think it's wrong to charge for root, despite it being historically developed and distributed for free. That being said, one of the things that has made the android dev community amazing is its dedication to opening the abilities of software and hardware for everyone. This core concept of community development and participation is what has helped shape sites like XDA. Once we start the trend of putting a price tag on it, it starts to get a bit apple smelling in here.
For myself, root by itself, not an unlocked bootloader, on a device that’s about to get an OS upgrade is not worth 20$.That price tag is very broken and again sets a bad example. I REALLY DO empathize and sympathize with hard working devs wanting to get some funds back for their time, but the only 0 day exploit being used here is the price tag for this.
Cheers!
I imagine most of us spend $20 over the course of a month on little extras.. a candy bar, fast food lunch, or bar night with friends... etc
So if you sacrifice those little extras for one month to have root on a device that is basically on your body 24/7, to me, is an easy justification to make.
Coming from rooted phones I had no idea how borked an ad-filled android experience is. Being able to use my phone without any visual intrusions is well worth it.
Also coming from 5.0 on an M8, I really don't mind staying with 4.4.4 if the 5.1 update kills the mofo process. Worse case, Im stuck with root on 4.4.4 until my edge up next March and start this process all over again
YES. You can flash an edited image I don't get why people are complaining about this so much it opens a door that allows for mostly anything you could ask for. Edit Image and reflash with what they want.
I have no problem in principle with charging for root. There's nothing at all wrong with a developer expecting compensation for something that (1) requires a specialized skill set that that developer has and (2) clearly required a great deal of that developer's time. Why should I expect them to give me that for free? It would certainly be nice if they did, but it's not something that's owed to me.
That said, I somewhat regret having paid for this. It's fundamentally different from what most users mean when they refer to "root." Apps that advertise themselves as "root apps" almost uniformly contemplate being able to write to /system on the fly, and the lack of an ability to do so means that my phone—while technically rooted—lacks some pretty basic root functionality.
I would have no problem paying $20 or more for what I'll call "true-root". I'm not a technical guy, so doing all the stuff that's required to basically flash a new image is not something I'm willing to do. In addition, you still have write-protection that's not possible or not easily possible to currently circumvent. When I rooted my Droid Razr Maxx (the 1st and only phone I ever rooted), I basically connected to the phone to my laptop, ran a . bat file and sat back and waited. The end result was a fully rooted phone. There was no questions or concerns about what could or could not run. If the app in question required root, then you knew it would safely work.
Don't get me wrong. I believe this will open the door for more possibilities with the Turbo. I can certainly appreciate the time and effort from all involved to get this to where it is. That being said, for me and me only, I will not be implementing this, as it stands today. That would be my stance even if it was being offered at no cost.
The only reasons I ever rooted my Razr Maxx was to get WiFi Hotspot and Titanium Backup working, so the lack of root for me is an inconvenience, not the end of the world.
The issue is that most members here are used to a certain experience, and then when that experience is different they will complain. When they have to pay for that different experience, they complain more. I personally feel like this is 100% worth $20, especially since it is a license for the program. I'm sure that this will open up a lot of doors for this device soon.
If you read this post and on, it looks like we kind of already do have WP off
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=59691280
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
this_is_nascar said:
I can appreciate that view on the subject. It's still not going to be for everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you, it's not for everyone. Everyone is welcome to try (at their own risk), but it's not a "push the magic button" method. Some like the fact that with a little elbow (and finger) grease they can finally get root on a device that was believed so locked down as to never allow root. Some are intimidated by the process of having to do some modding/coding/whatever and would rather wait for an easier (push a magic button) method. Both choices are A-ok in my book.
My problem is with the people who think paying a dev is outrageous, no matter what they are paying for or how much work it is going to be on their end once they get hold of the software after forking over their cash. Someone doesn't want to pay, fine. No need to go out on a soapbox and proclaim your holy testament to the world that so-and-so dev is ridiculous for charging for their work.
Like was said a few posts back, devs that release their sh!+ for free, it's greatly appreciated. Devs that charge for their hard work, I commend you all for being capitalistic in this society.
LifeAsADroid said:
I totally agree with you, it's not for everyone. Everyone is welcome to try (at their own risk), but it's not a "push the magic button" method. Some like the fact that with a little elbow (and finger) grease they can finally get root on a device that was believed so locked down as to never allow root. Some are intimidated by the process of having to do some modding/coding/whatever and would rather wait for an easier (push a magic button) method. Both choices are A-ok in my book.
My problem is with the people who think paying a dev is outrageous, no matter what they are paying for or how much work it is going to be on their end once they get hold of the software after forking over their cash. Someone doesn't want to pay, fine. No need to go out on a soapbox and proclaim your holy testament to the world that so-and-so dev is ridiculous for charging for their work.
Like was said a few posts back, devs that release their sh!+ for free, it's greatly appreciated. Devs that charge for their hard work, I commend you all for being capitalistic in this society.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand your points.
I had no problem paying for it. I have used free root exploits many times in the past. I tried to donate for most of them (but haven't always) so I see no problem with kicking some money to the dev for his work.
As for those complaining about not getting free root or "half-root". You've gone 5+ months without ANY root. You are free to go along your merry way and ignore this root. At this point it shouldn't make a difference in your life. You should have done some research when you bought your phone. Historically, Moto phones have been difficult to root/unlock. I'm sure you had other choices at your time of purchase. If root meant that much to you, you should have got the M8 or some other phone with "full root".
As far as "half-root", I understand where people are coming from, but it still gives us root functionality, even if we dont have system write ability. For instance, I am now able to run ARU-R and Greenify in root mode. This alone was worth the price for me. Others have had success w/ Ti backup which is also great. My next step is to start testing some of the advanced Tasker functions, but I dont see why they shouldnt work with this "half-root". So far it does most of everything I needed it for so you'll see no complaints from me.
People need to understand that this is a huge step forward from where we were just a week or 2 ago. And appreciate that maiko1 didnt have to spend his time finding and developing an exploit for us, let alone release it in a nicely packaged tool. Whether you thing WP root is worth $20 is going to vary based on individual needs. Why not instead just be greatful we've come this far and if you want to save your $20 then just keep holding out for whatever else this may open down the road.
LifeAsADroid said:
I totally agree with you, it's not for everyone. Everyone is welcome to try (at their own risk), but it's not a "push the magic button" method. Some like the fact that with a little elbow (and finger) grease they can finally get root on a device that was believed so locked down as to never allow root. Some are intimidated by the process of having to do some modding/coding/whatever and would rather wait for an easier (push a magic button) method. Both choices are A-ok in my book.
My problem is with the people who think paying a dev is outrageous, no matter what they are paying for or how much work it is going to be on their end once they get hold of the software after forking over their cash. Someone doesn't want to pay, fine. No need to go out on a soapbox and proclaim your holy testament to the world that so-and-so dev is ridiculous for charging for their work.
Like was said a few posts back, devs that release their sh!+ for free, it's greatly appreciated. Devs that charge for their hard work, I commend you all for being capitalistic in this society.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this approach but your earlier comments were attacking people who didn't object to paying for root out of principal but basically object to paying for what's available right now, as it doesn't give them what they're looking for.
I haven't paid for MOFO yet because it doesn't give me what I'm looking for, which is the ability to install, update and change xposed packages, adaway, etc without having to build and flash a new image every time. I don't have the skills OR the time to do that. I'll be more than happy to pay the $25 I pledged in the root bounty thread if I can get a solution that works for ME.
Like I said, I'm all for devs getting paid to do this, and to be honest, when I read the post about MOFO (before I knew exactly how it worked and what the limitations were), I was relieved that they built the payment mechanism into the solution instead of having to PM hundreds of users and ask for their bounty pledge or for donations on the forum. Moreover, I have a lot of appreciation and respect to people who do these things, whether they charge for it or not. I get all sweaty every time I flash a new ROM, I can't even imagine how much work it is to find these exploits and explore using them for our advantage. It's just that this solution isn't for everyone, at least the way it is now.
Here is how I see it. Maiko1 made a product. This product does exactly what it is designed and advertised to do. Unfortunately, it’s not quite what I’m looking for. If I’m looking for a new car, and I want a car with a sun roof, and someone offers to sell me a car without a sun roof, well, I can decide whether I want to forego that feature and buy that car, or hold off in the hopes that a car with a sunroof will become available. No offense to the dude who made the car without a sunroof at all. I appreciate all the work he put in. It’s just not what I’m looking for. Now, if someone comes along and figures out a way to add a sunroof to the car (adaway, greenify, etc.), I may reconsider and purchase it. But as of now, I don’t really see how those root apps will function without WP off. Don’t they need to be able to write things to the system partition to function properly? I could be wrong on that and if so someone please explain how these root apps will work with the current root option. Just my 2 cents.
Munkee915 said:
I had no problem paying for it. I have used free root exploits many times in the past. I tried to donate for most of them (but haven't always) so I see no problem with kicking some money to the dev for his work.
As for those complaining about not getting free root or "half-root". You've gone 5+ months without ANY root. You are free to go along your merry way and ignore this root. At this point it shouldn't make a difference in your life. You should have done some research when you bought your phone. Historically, Moto phones have been difficult to root/unlock. I'm sure you had other choices at your time of purchase. If root meant that much to you, you should have got the M8 or some other phone with "full root".
As far as "half-root", I understand where people are coming from, but it still gives us root functionality, even if we dont have system write ability. For instance, I am now able to run ARU-R and Greenify in root mode. This alone was worth the price for me. Others have had success w/ Ti backup which is also great. My next step is to start testing some of the advanced Tasker functions, but I dont see why they shouldnt work with this "half-root". So far it does most of everything I needed it for so you'll see no complaints from me.
People need to understand that this is a huge step forward from where we were just a week or 2 ago. And appreciate that maiko1 didnt have to spend his time finding and developing an exploit for us, let alone release it in a nicely packaged tool. Whether you thing WP root is worth $20 is going to vary based on individual needs. Why not instead just be greatful we've come this far and if you want to save your $20 then just keep holding out for whatever else this may open down the road.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps my situation is a little different than most:
I purchased my first droid turbo the morning it came out at my local Verizon store from a friend who had an extra upgrade. I paid a little over $300 for it after taxes. The phone was great, the processor was powerful, and the battery was superb (although not quite 48 hours with my use). As an unlimited data user on Verizon, the lack of tethering for free got to me, and I decided to sell the 64GB beauty for a sound 550$ to pull in a nice little profit.
Fast forward a couple months:
Scanning the droid forums every now and then, I found a post that stated that root was being explored on the turbo. Many android news websites started reporting it and I was beginning to hate my M7 because of it's consistently inconsistent battery life. So what did I do? On March 22nd, I purchased another Turbo for $450; only because I knew it was getting root. And wouldn't luck have it, that the phone arrived in my mailbox yesterday afternoon just hours before the root method was released.
So I am technically INCLINED, but I would not consider myself technically knowledgeable or resilient in regards to system images. With that being said, I don't really trust myself to futz around with my brand spanking new droid turbo since I have no idea what I would do if something goes wrong. (Murphy's Law) I purchased a phone under the notion of "Root is coming to the Turbo!"; which it did! This is 100% undoubtedly a sufficient method of obtaining root. It just wasn't all that I was expecting; and I do have a bad taste left in my mouth only because I purchased this phone thinking I would be getting what I consider to be "full root".
Now,
Am I blaming the developer in ANY way? Absolutely not. His work is fully appreciated on my end.
Do I think this is a huge step for the Turbo development community? Of course!
Will this root method and usage be worth $20 for some people, but not for others? Yes.
Would I recommend this specific root method to any of my friends here at home? Unfortunately, no.
Look, if a dev wants to collect on their work, then by god let them do it! If I poured my time into an exploit such as this, you can be damn sure that I would ask for some capital in return. But would I charge $20? I honestly don't think I would.
LifeAsADroid said:
Correction: my feeling is "here is the best method available as of now. Meet the dev half way and do some very basic, very minor work if you want this function so bad. Dev brought you 90% of the way there, you do the rest because the dev doesn't have your phone in his hands."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the thing - why go 90% there, and not 100%? There's a technical reason for that, obviously, and if a talented developer like the one that created Mofo can't do it (or doesn't think it's worth the time), a hack, weekend-warrior tinkerer like myself certainly can't. Not without putting in many hours to educate myself on all the inner workings of Android, and most guys who want to root probably can't really devote that kind of time and/or resources to it.
Are you saying that you're not the slightest bit disappointed that this isn't an easy, plug-n-chug solution?
---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------
evastonian said:
If you read this post and on, it looks like we kind of already do have WP off
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=59691280
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, if you read on, you'll see it was only temporary, makes everything unstable, and doesn't survive reboot.
If WP off was as simple as downloading an app from the Play store, I'm thinking the developer could have figured out how to do it and integrate it into Mofo.
spinach.chin said:
Here's the thing - why go 90% there, and not 100%? There's a technical reason for that, obviously, and if a talented developer like the one that created Mofo can't do it (or doesn't think it's worth the time), a hack, weekend-warrior tinkerer like myself certainly can't. Not without putting in many hours to educate myself on all the inner workings of Android, and most guys who want to root probably can't really devote that kind of time and/or resources to it.
Are you saying that you're not the slightest bit disappointed that this isn't an easy, plug-n-chug solution?
---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------
Unfortunately, if you read on, you'll see it was only temporary, makes everything unstable, and doesn't survive reboot.
If WP off was as simple as downloading an app from the Play store, I'm thinking the developer could have figured out how to do it and integrate it into Mofo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=59691816
It does survive soft reboot. So we can install xposed, and update SU binaries. It automates mounting as R/W after the kernel. So this looks like a solution.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
can anyone pointe to the thread to root a nexus 6 with marshmallow on it please? i search but i see a lot of old, conflicting and outdated reports
I just want solid instructions that somebody here already used
cpugeeker said:
can anyone pointe to the thread to root a nexus 6 with marshmallow on it please? i search but i see a lot of old, conflicting and outdated reports
I just want solid instructions that somebody here already used
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here are the steps I used:
- flash/upgrade to Marshmallow
- flash modified boot.img
- flash/boot TWRP and sideload latest v2.50+
No. Not that unless you want unknown evil invading your phone and stealing your private information.
Use this instead;
http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-6/general/root-t3231211
doitright said:
No. Not that unless you want unknown evil invading your phone and stealing your private information.
Use this instead;
http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-6/general/root-t3231211
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WOW what happen with them? I found some readings but now all. What exactly went down? Any good reads on this?
doitright said:
No. Not that unless you want unknown evil invading your phone and stealing your private information.
Use this instead;
http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-6/general/root-t3231211
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol. I appreciate your work on providing other root access methods, but you really shouldnt go around claiming made up info as fact and trying to spread fear everywhere you can. You have no proof whatsoever of the things you claim.
EniGmA1987 said:
lol. I appreciate your work on providing other root access methods, but you really shouldnt go around claiming made up info as fact and trying to spread fear everywhere you can. You have no proof whatsoever of the things you claim.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You obviously don't know the first thing about security, or the gravity of offering root control to an unknown entity.
To make it simple, unless you can *prove* that something is safe, the only rational assumption is that it isn't.
In other words, it is not my place to prove them unsafe. It is your responsibility to prove that they are safe, and frankly, that is an impossible task.
Feel free to use whatever you like. But don't go recommending to somebody that they take dangerous risks that are unnecessary.
---------- Post added at 01:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 AM ----------
cpugeeker said:
WOW what happen with them? I found some readings but now all. What exactly went down? Any good reads on this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was almost acceptable when it was maintained by a single individual, but at some point fairly recently, the code was transferred/sold to an outfit that has been buying up all the root control software that can be found on play store.
Although the original author continues to make the software available under his pseudonym, there is no indication of the contract in place between him and the software's new owners, and no indication of their motives.
That makes the situation incredible frightening and dangerous.
doitright said:
You obviously don't know the first thing about security, or the gravity of offering root control to an unknown entity.
To make it simple, unless you can *prove* that something is safe, the only rational assumption is that it isn't.
In other words, it is not my place to prove them unsafe. It is your responsibility to prove that they are safe, and frankly, that is an impossible task.
Feel free to use whatever you like. But don't go recommending to somebody that they take dangerous risks that are unnecessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So something that has always been a bit closed, yet still trusted and used, gets transfered to a newly made company started through XDA leaders and still maintained currently by Chainfire for a while, and suddenly this means secret organizations with corrupt ties have suddenly taken control of the Android root world?
EniGmA1987 said:
So something that has always been a bit closed, yet still trusted and used, gets transfered to a newly made company started through XDA leaders and still maintained currently by Chainfire for a while, and suddenly this means secret organizations with corrupt ties have suddenly taken control of the Android root world?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't guarantee that it's bad. But for it to not be controlled by the creator (a first ballot Hall of Famer in this community) and ownership switched to an unproven entity, it turns it from solid and secure to who knows what. The new owners could be just as good. But we should skeptically wait and see
EniGmA1987 said:
So something that has always been a bit closed, yet still trusted and used, gets transfered to a newly made company started through XDA leaders and still maintained currently by Chainfire for a while, and suddenly this means secret organizations with corrupt ties have suddenly taken control of the Android root world?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not really a newly made company and no where are the XDA leaders involved.
Now make no mistake. Chains SU will be around for a very long time. Will there be other options? Sure, there are many already. If not as mainstream. Apps like this will come and go. It is the nature of the beast.
Now before people start bashing others they better have something to prove it. Other wise they have nothing to say worth listening to.
zelendel said:
It is not really a newly made company and no where are the XDA leaders involved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you provide some info on the company to the people here then? Because business filings say that you are wrong on that. The filings for the company were done on August 11th of this year and they rent a virtual office space at the Trump Building on Wall Street. Chainfire himself also said that the XDA leadership was involved in getting his project moved over to this company. Now maybe he wasnt supposed to let that slip, IDK, but he did say it.
EniGmA1987 said:
Could you provide some info on the company to the people here then? Because business filings say that you are wrong on that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just look deeper and you will see. Just because they have a different name, or make an off shoot doesnt really make them a different company. If you read you will see that they already have their fingers into a few SU apps already. Dont you think that is odd for a new company?
XDA admins only made introductions. I personally dont really care. Nor should anyone really. If you are using SU then you know the risks you run and how to spot them.
zelendel said:
Just look deeper and you will see. Just because they have a different name, or make an off shoot doesnt really make them a different company. If you read you will see that they already have their fingers into a few SU apps already. Dont you think that is odd for a new company?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What would be incredibly useful and go a long way in putting people's minds at ease, would be a realistic explanation of the MOTIVATIONS of this company, WHICH IS NEW, regardless of your perception of it being a simple name change, for acquiring and controlling ALL of the different mechanisms for controlling root on Android.
Frankly, I can imagine only a few motivations, none of which ANYONE should be ok with;
1) Charging for it,
2) Forcing ads that the user cannot control,
3) Backdoor/botnet/etc.
You need to remember that while their software will prompt you when some OTHER software tries to access root, it has the ability to hide its own use of root, as well as to wipe evidence from the logs.
Root access should ONLY EVER be open source.
doitright said:
What would be incredibly useful and go a long way in putting people's minds at ease, would be a realistic explanation of the MOTIVATIONS of this company, WHICH IS NEW, regardless of your perception of it being a simple name change, for acquiring and controlling ALL of the different mechanisms for controlling root on Android.
Frankly, I can imagine only a few motivations, none of which ANYONE should be ok with;
1) Charging for it,
2) Forcing ads that the user cannot control,
3) Backdoor/botnet/etc.
You need to remember that while their software will prompt you when some OTHER software tries to access root, it has the ability to hide its own use of root, as well as to wipe evidence from the logs.
Root access should ONLY EVER be open source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The open source was done once. It didnt last very long and due to the nature of SU will never stay open source and mainstream at the same time. If someone wants to charge for the SU app then ok let them. Heck most already paid for the SU pro anyway. No point in going on a witch hunt before there is something to hunt. All we can do is sit back and wait. If chain trusts them then I am willing to give them a chance. Root itself is a security risk and anyone that does root should know just what they are doing. If not then they get whats coming to them.
This is not this companies first root app. As stated they own/profit from just about all the root apps that are around.
zelendel said:
The open source was done once. It didnt last very long and due to the nature of SU will never stay open source and mainstream at the same time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no idea how to respond to that besides saying to you that this statement is *ABSURD*.
The open source root was the *FIRST* root, and has persisted. In fact, the root that *I* am working on, is the extension of that very same *ORIGINAL* root done by Koush. It has remained *the* primary mechanism for controlling root access from 2009 to present, except for a brief loss of maintenance during the reign of Android 5.x.
Further, the nature of root REQUIRES it to be open source.
And will be THE ONLY mainstream method of providing root access control for anyone who has ANY consideration for security.
If someone wants to charge for the SU app then ok let them. Heck most already paid for the SU pro anyway.
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Only because they are being denied simple and mandatory features. This isn't a voluntary charge, this is coercion and even RANSOM.
No point in going on a witch hunt before there is something to hunt.
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But there IS a witch to hunt: SECURITY. Or lack thereof.
All we can do is sit back and wait. If chain trusts them then I am willing to give them a chance.
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You are a fool. Not only did the author of that binary root NEVER actually do anything to EARN your trust, the fact that you put your trust into a business arrangement that doesn't even involve you is tremendously scary... for you.
Root itself is a security risk and anyone that does root should know just what they are doing. If not then they get whats coming to them.
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No. This is entirely invalid. Root is not a security risk when done correctly, in open source, and treated with *respect*.
Binary root control *IS* a security risk, and unfortunately you are wrong again on this, since knowing what you are doing DOES NOT protect you from it. There is NOTHING you can do to protect yourself from binary software that you VOLUNTARILY put into a sensitive position of high trust.
This is not this companies first root app. As stated they own/profit from just about all the root apps that are around.
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That is a TERRIFYING prospect for reasons I've already discussed.
doitright said:
I have no idea how to respond to that besides saying to you that this statement is *ABSURD*.
The open source root was the *FIRST* root, and has persisted. In fact, the root that *I* am working on, is the extension of that very same *ORIGINAL* root done by Koush. It has remained *the* primary mechanism for controlling root access from 2009 to present, except for a brief loss of maintenance during the reign of Android 5.x.
Further, the nature of root REQUIRES it to be open source.
And will be THE ONLY mainstream method of providing root access control for anyone who has ANY consideration for security.
Only because they are being denied simple and mandatory features. This isn't a voluntary charge, this is coercion and even RANSOM.
But there IS a witch to hunt: SECURITY. Or lack thereof.
You are a fool. Not only did the author of that binary root NEVER actually do anything to EARN your trust, the fact that you put your trust into a business arrangement that doesn't even involve you is tremendously scary... for you.
No. This is entirely invalid. Root is not a security risk when done correctly, in open source, and treated with *respect*.
Binary root control *IS* a security risk, and unfortunately you are wrong again on this, since knowing what you are doing DOES NOT protect you from it. There is NOTHING you can do to protect yourself from binary software that you VOLUNTARILY put into a sensitive position of high trust.
That is a TERRIFYING prospect for reasons I've already discussed.
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He has done alot to earn my trust. You would know that had to been around as long as I have been.
I am fully aware of the first root. And the reasons behind him stopping its development. The only ones that I am aware of that was even using it was CM and they are almost as much of a joke as MIUI.
I am fully aware of what you are working on and to be honest not something I or many others would use would even use as you are unknown and to be honest not really trusted. Maybe after you have been around a while more people will put faith in you and your projects. Not to mention your attitude is enough to make many not bother with it.
Root is a security risk. Just as any real developer. Even Google is making things like root harder to obtain because they see the risk. But to be honest as I have already said "Mobile security is and illusion" If I was truly worried about security I would not unlock my bootloader or bother with rooting.
Now we can argue this back and forth and never get anywhere. So We can end this here.
doitright said:
You obviously don't know the first thing about security, or the gravity of offering root control to an unknown entity.
To make it simple, unless you can *prove* that something is safe, the only rational assumption is that it isn't.
In other words, it is not my place to prove them unsafe. It is your responsibility to prove that they are safe, and frankly, that is an impossible task.
Feel free to use whatever you like. But don't go recommending to somebody that they take dangerous risks that are unnecessary.
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It was almost acceptable when it was maintained by a single individual, but at some point fairly recently, the code was transferred/sold to an outfit that has been buying up all the root control software that can be found on play store.
Although the original author continues to make the software available under his pseudonym, there is no indication of the contract in place between him and the software's new owners, and no indication of their motives.
That makes the situation incredible frightening and dangerous.
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This is almost the most amazing post on xda. :good:
Could you kindly prove that the Google Factory Image is safe? Otherwise I would advise you destroy your handset immediately as its probably not safe.
zelendel said:
He has done alot to earn my trust. You would know that had to been around as long as I have been.
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I've been around longer than you. Try again.
I am fully aware of the first root. And the reasons behind him stopping its development. The only ones that I am aware of that was even using it was CM and they are almost as much of a joke as MIUI.
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I won't argue with CM being a joke, but MOST people used Koush's superuser up until they were stopped by selinux.
I am fully aware of what you are working on and to be honest not something I or many others would use would even use as you are unknown and to be honest not really trusted. Maybe after you have been around a while more people will put faith in you and your projects. Not to mention your attitude is enough to make many not bother with it.
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Speak for yourself, but don't you DARE to speak for others.
As far as the trustworthiness of my work goes... go ahead and AUDIT IT. The code speaks for itself.
Root is a security risk. Just as any real developer.
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I ask myself. Answer is that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Even Google is making things like root harder to obtain because they see the risk. But to be honest as I have already said "Mobile security is and illusion" If I was truly worried about security I would not unlock my bootloader or bother with rooting.
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Google is correctly worried about the dangers of binary root. As YOU should also be.
Now we can argue this back and forth and never get anywhere. So We can end this here.
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Only because you have degenerated into personal attacks rather than rational argument.
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Amos91 said:
This is almost the most amazing post on xda. :good:
Could you kindly prove that the Google Factory Image is safe? Otherwise I would advise you destroy your handset immediately as its probably not safe.
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I can't prove that google factory image is safe. I can make a strong argument to suggest that it most likely is, and I can prove that AOSP is safe.
FYI: I use a Nexus, so I'm not limited to factory images, as implied by your last sentence.
Well, I'm no techie, I'm just an end-user of other people's talented work, but I'm with doitright on this one. I have trusted Chainfire for years - I have a number of his apps on my device, all of them paid for even though most work perfectly as free apps, simply because I do trust his work. Even if it's closed source black box stuff, he has always appeared to be a straight-up guy.
Still, once the black box passes into company ownership, at that point my trust ends. Companies are not charities hoping for donations. They want some return on whatever investment they've put into taking over SuperSU. Bottom line, I don't trust companies - and yes, that does include Google or Alphabet or whatever piece owns Android these days. I live with the knowledge that I am the product - my choice.
It's also my choice to opt for an open-source solution over a black box one. If doitright's superuser can be audited by people who know what they're looking at (I don't) then that'll do it for me.
And as an afterthought, yes, doitright is a spiky character. So is Torvalds. So what? As long as he comes up with the goods I have no problem with it. He comes across as passionate, doesn't suffer fools gladly (and that is just a saying, I'm not referring to any posters), and since I'm pretty much the same, if a bit more politic in the way I write, I can't criticise that...
doitright said:
Feel free to use whatever you like. But don't go recommending to somebody that they take dangerous risks that are unnecessary
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Risk = Chance * Effect.
doitright said:
I've been around longer than you. Try again.
I won't argue with CM being a joke, but MOST people used Koush's superuser up until they were stopped by selinux.
Speak for yourself, but don't you DARE to speak for others.
As far as the trustworthiness of my work goes... go ahead and AUDIT IT. The code speaks for itself.
I ask myself. Answer is that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Google is correctly worried about the dangers of binary root. As YOU should also be.
Only because you have degenerated into personal attacks rather than rational argument.
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I can't prove that google factory image is safe. I can make a strong argument to suggest that it most likely is, and I can prove that AOSP is safe.
FYI: I use a Nexus, so I'm not limited to factory images, as implied by your last sentence.
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I only speak for the developers I have talked to about using your root set up instead of chains. Got the same answer from all of them.
As for being around longer then me in the modding area. I would put a bet on that. I have been modding phones before a smart phone was even a thought.
You were the first to throw insults. As seems to be your way. Anyone that doesn't agree with you is called a fool or other wise.
Nope you are right. I have no idea what I'm talking about. Now excuse me I have some bugs to fix thanks to Google messing things up.