Database Develop

Why should verizon/moto unlock our bootloaders?

It appears that there is a guy who is interning at Motorola that wants to get ahold of some bigwigs and help voice our frustration. Here is a link if you have any ideas, please share them!
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/xty65/i_am_interning_at_a_major_fortune_500_company_who/

Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands

DoubleYouPee said:
Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands
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Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.

jesusishere said:
Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.
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Why would they need to have a locked bootloader to have that contract?

VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol

Here is the reason boot loaders are locked...
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.

vbhokiefan said:
VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol
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Well nowadays all data plans are being metered anyways. If I buy 2GB per month why does Verizon care if its used on my laptop instead of my phone for example. There was a recent FCC lawsuit against Verizon for separate tethering charges because it went against some agreement they had when they bought the 4G spectrum.
ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
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Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.

spunker88 said:
Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.
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From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)

doogald said:
From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)
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+1

ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.
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I don't really like this argument though, because most of those bricks are CAUSED by the locked bootloaders and other "security" put into place. These phones are just computers with radios inside. I've never bricked my (desktop or laptop) computer, and neither have most people, because computers have been designed such that the process that brings the computer up (the BIOS) is simple, reliable, and will load anything you tell it to, negating the need to mess with it.
The OG Droid was borderline software unbrickable, because you could leave the stock bootloader in place, and the stock bootloader was able to get you back home (SBF) by itself. If all phones were built like this today, and manufacturer's had a utility to restore the phone back to stock available on their website, the people returning devices due to softbricking would probably go way down, because a softbrick would be no big deal.

I can only imagine how long this bootloader is going to take to be cracked.

I wonder how long it will take XDA's best minds to unlock this bootloader. Seems like Samsung phones are getting harder and harder to exploit.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

willblake13 said:
I wonder how long it will take XDA's best minds to unlock this bootloader. Seems like Samsung phones are getting harder and harder to exploit.
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This isn't entirely true. Samsung phones have mostly had unlocked bootloaders unless you get a carrier version. They are still relatively easy to root and play around with. The only thing they are doing is adding security through Knox and that makes it difficult or even impossible to avoid flagging that the system has been tampered with. It doesn't stop playing with the bootloader or system, it just tells them that you have done something and that in turn voids warranty in many cases.
Most HTC, Sony and LG phones have locked bootloaders but the companies provide tools and instructions to unlock them. Only carrier-locked bootloaders are notoriously difficult to unlock.
I think you are mixing up the ability to unlock or play with the system with security features that flag and tell the company that you have messed with the phone. They are two different things.
It is becoming more and more difficult to return to a state that shows no evidence of tampering so warranty concerns are becoming more widespread. It doesn't mean that we can't play with our phones. It just means that after doing so the phone is our responsibility - sometimes even if there is a defect that isn't our fault.

akselic said:
This isn't entirely true. Samsung phones have mostly had unlocked bootloaders unless you get a carrier version. They are still relatively easy to root and play around with. The only thing they are doing is adding security through Knox and that makes it difficult or even impossible to avoid flagging that the system has been tampered with. It doesn't stop playing with the bootloader or system, it just tells them that you have done something and that in turn voids warranty in many cases.
Most HTC, Sony and LG phones have locked bootloaders but the companies provide tools and instructions to unlock them. Only carrier-locked bootloaders are notoriously difficult to unlock.
I think you are mixing up the ability to unlock or play with the system with security features that flag and tell the company that you have messed with the phone. They are two different things.
It is becoming more and more difficult to return to a state that shows no evidence of tampering so warranty concerns are becoming more widespread. It doesn't mean that we can't play with our phones. It just means that after doing so the phone is our responsibility - sometimes even if there is a defect that isn't our fault.
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His post was it will probably take a long time to unlock the bootloader, not sure what your LONG response has to do with that but anyway.
Yes, OP you are correct. Heck even the Note 3 for VZW is pretty limited ROM wise even after being out for months now. The good news these days that at least it is running a current build (4.4) so atleast we aren't behind in that regard. Problem is if we want to run CM we need there kernel to make it fly. Hopefully someone will break this thing soon!

jmill75 said:
His post was it will probably take a long time to unlock the bootloader, not sure what your LONG response has to do with that but anyway.
Yes, OP you are correct. Heck even the Note 3 for VZW is pretty limited ROM wise even after being out for months now. The good news these days that at least it is running a current build (4.4) so atleast we aren't behind in that regard. Problem is if we want to run CM we need there kernel to make it fly. Hopefully someone will break this thing soon!
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His post makes sense, there's a world outside the US.

dandroid13 said:
His post makes sense, there's a world outside the US.
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OP lives in Washington...soooooo thats the US buddy. Whats your point?

jmill75 said:
OP lives in Washington...soooooo thats the US buddy. Whats your point?
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My point is that post #2 makes sense. It isn't Samsung that makes things harder for you guys, it's the carriers.

dandroid13 said:
My point is that post #2 makes sense. It isn't Samsung that makes things harder for you guys, it's the carriers.
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:good::good::good:

dandroid13 said:
My point is that post #2 makes sense. It isn't Samsung that makes things harder for you guys, it's the carriers.
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Its a lot with the carriers but also Samsung has to have their phones secure also for govt official use hence Knox, plus region lock...
Sent from my XT1058 using xda premium

[email protected] said:
Its a lot with the carriers but also Samsung has to have their phones secure also for govt official use hence Knox, plus region lock...
Sent from my XT1058 using xda premium
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Knox =/= locked bootloader, region lock goes away with a 5 min call.

[DISCUSSION] Are unexploitable bootloaders putting an end to US development?

I will not state the obvious with the exception of this: If you can not root a device much less install a custom recovery, development essentially means absolutely nothing to you.. In this case what is the new definition of open source? "Open source" made android what is today.
All opinions from different perpectives are welcome--but please mind your Ps and Qs.
Thanks....
EDIT: I firmly believe that xda members must be patient. However, there must also be a realistic reckoning. That is to say--hypothetically speaking--if it takes five years to create an exploit, for all practical purposes one could consider that bootloader impregnable considering the exponential pace of technological advancement. So, if one is measured in their assessment and comments, it is closer to the truth and a heck of a lot more useful to talk in terms of "X" device has a bootloader that can not be unlocked. If for example the S4 is "cracked" say--three years from now, will anyone care? Will development restart? Finally, like with any choice, it's up to the individual to decide what can be considered "hard locked." For me, I guessed that the S4 would be leaked an unlock after the S5 came to market. Obviously my reasoning was wrong. At any rate, my ship has sailed--I can be patient no more.
But remember here we are assuming for the sake of a discussion that these bootloaders will not be exploited and if that is the case will that spread to the point that US development dies on the vine.

I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.

LoSt180 said:
I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.
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I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.

numbR7 said:
I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.
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T-Mobile is unlockable the HTC One M8 is unlockable, AT&T and Verizon S5 variants are not unlockable - we can't unlock them.

Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL

As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.

eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, givit helpsng hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
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I couldn't agree more. I think it's good you emphasize the truth as I helps newer people understand.

eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
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There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.
just my opinion is all.

cstayton said:
There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.
just my opinion is all.
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Agreed, when I said 'it will not happen' i was referring to the 'anytime soon' statement.

I agree that saying "it's coming soon" is probably not the best phrase to use. However, to say it will never happen is just as bad. It simply did not and has not happened as fast as we want it to. There is always someone smarter when it comes to computers and software. I am sure the devs have a life outside of hacking a phone for us and everyone needs to be patient. Plus the fact with the Knox security, I am sure the devs want to find all possible work arounds. Just my opinion though...
Sent from my AT&T Samsung Galaxy S5.

What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

I love to use custom Roms etc.However when you buy a phone, buy it for what it is not for what you want it to be later on. The fact that there is no root is what keeps me using my GS4 more than this phone but the S5 is a solid Device, has great battery life (for me at least) and gets everything I need done. Its a matter of being patient especially for any who own the 4 and know how Samsung and ATT locked the previous iteration of this phone.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium HD app

baldwyn said:
What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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Please explain how these so-called "idiots" are the reason AT&T and Verizon "had" to lock down the devices. I don't understand.

AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.
I think I kinda explained it right there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

baldwyn said:
AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.
I think I kinda explained it right there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]
Yes - I get that statement. But, how are they protecting themselves. That is, how are they harmed by these "idiots?" Further, if one were to extrapolate users from population, roughly 96% of mobile phone users in the world don't seem to pose a significant problem to thier carriers as it is only the NA carriers that do this ("hard" lock the bootloader). Then, futher hone that to say maybe 1.5%, at the most, US users root their phones. Then narrow further by device. If these numbers are even close--how many of these "idiots" are there. You've been around long enough to know some of the so-called "idiots" were accomplished developers. I do not want to argue with you. I am genuinely intetested in why you see it this way.

rachelm920 said:
Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL
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Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol

numbR7 said:
Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol
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I'm so god damn sick of this OTA sh... I was at work and it rebooted and started installing by itself. I tried to pop the battery but no matter what I do it continues the installation.
I'm moving to T-Mobile. Thanks ATT!

I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to whom I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get them infected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

baldwyn said:
I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to who. I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get thefected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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It's cool. Posts are often taken wrong or worded differently than someone else is used to talking. I see your point. It makes sense. I may be a little too jaded (to put it nicely) to let them off the hook that easily though. Lol.

After my purchase of the new Samsung galaxy s5 on AT&T I will state that this will be my last carrier specific purchase,
My girlfriend has the HTC M8 (I had one also but hated the freaking pics from the camera).
This was another example of lesson learned, I will from now on purchase nexus devices or not locked to a carrier specific devices, or Google play edition devices from now on.
No more jumping the gun paying full retail to get phones on release day screw that. Lesson has been learned here for sure.
I am thinking on sending my Galaxy S5 into http://www.maxback.com and then purchasing a nexus 5, then later this year when the new nexus is available,I can pick one of them up.. But im kind of stuck as I love the camera on the s5.... this is what is holding me up...
Sure we and disable the bloatware on the Samsung and all that fun stuff, but there is a world of difference when all those items are gone
Thanks to the awesome developers here on XDA making some kickass roms for us.
I run the kingkat on my girlfriends HTC m8 from the HTC forums and it is so much faster with all of the bloatware and features she was never going to use gone.. that m8 is night and day in speed difference and usability..
Bottom line If we are here we have the mindset to tinker and to tinker on these devices WE need to stop buying locked down phones..

How Much Would You Pay 2 Unlock Bootloader

Original Thread is here>>>
http://forum.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5/general/verizon-wireless-developer-program-t2853345
This is for any Verizon device, not just the Samsung Galaxy S5. Please spread this to other device forums!
Recently, I came up with an idea of a developer program. What this program would do is allow people to pay a fee to have their bootloaders unlocked, regardless of the device. This would allow people the freedom to modify their device or develop for it without any issues. I did a little research and could not find anything similar to this (besides developer edition devices). So, with this idea in mind, I sent an email to the Executive VP of Verizon. Twenty minutes later, I received a phone call from his office. Long story short (there was a lot of talk about rooting and unlocking), the guy who called me put my idea through to marketing. However, since only about 1% of customers root their devices, there is concern of the interest in this.
What this thread is for is to see how many people would be interested in this program.
What would you be willing to pay to customer service to have your bootloader unlocked?
$0
$5
$25
$50
$100
Please use only one of those five prices, and no other prices.
You may discuss this in further detail in this thread. However, arguing, trolling, slandering, bickering, and anything else that will clutter this thread and overwork the moderators WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. This thread is not the thread to argue with others over the details since the idea is already in marketing. If you wish to argue or troll, please take it somewhere else. And, as always, please follow the forum rules. Thank you for looking at this thread.
For those who are concerned with the warranty, please read this. Huge thanks to @shootind5nukes for this info.
Quote:
Just so everyone knows the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act prevents someone from totally VOIDING a warranty. Verizon/Samsung could only deny to warranty something if they can prove something you did cause the issue. Anything that has nothing to do with what you did still has to be under warranty. If you LCD started to lose color or get dead pixels that would still have to be covered because that has nothing to do with bootloaders and flashing ROMS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuso...s_Warranty_Act
"The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance."
I learned about this when I was going to get my truck lifted. I was told if I did it would VOID my truck's warranty. After looking into it further it didn't actually VOID anything. But for example if I went in to get my suspension fixed because it broke they could argue that the lift kit put stress on the suspension and that's why it failed so they would not have to cover it. But if my motor exploded because it was made out of cheese it would still be under warranty, the entire warranty can never be voided. Only damage caused by what you did. Food for thought guys.
If anyone has anything to add please do.
Here is the email of the VP I emailed if you want to email him about the developer program. Again, thank you @shootind5nukes for this idea.
http://about.verizon.com/index.php/a...utt&e=139&h=8b
IF YOU DO EMAIL HIM, BE POLITE AND RESPECTFUL PLEASE.​

I wouldn't pay anything to unlock my Verizon device bootloader... because I don't have Verizon... no one on this forum has Verizon.
The VP of Verizon has no say about the ATT bootloader unlock, anyway, lol

Just an FYI
LuckyColdJohnson said:
Original Thread is here>>>
http://forum.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5/general/verizon-wireless-developer-program-t2853345
IF YOU DO EMAIL HIM, BE POLITE AND RESPECTFUL PLEASE.​
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OP
You really need to check and double check what you write before you post it ..
At least click on Preview Post Before you post anything
Thanks

I know it's Verizon, I just thought it was interesting and brings ideas. It's just a question but if they see it, maybe things can change. Like HTCs website where you have an unlock option. Anything is possible.

LuckyColdJohnson said:
I know it's Verizon, I just thought it was interesting and brings ideas. It's just a question but if they see it, maybe things can change. Like HTCs website where you have an unlock option. Anything is possible.
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Agreed....
And thank you for posting...
I'd pay $100.00 for an unlocked bootloader....BTW.....g

LuckyColdJohnson said:
I know it's Verizon, I just thought it was interesting and brings ideas. It's just a question but if they see it, maybe things can change. Like HTCs website where you have an unlock option. Anything is possible.
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This is exactly the point. For HTC, they provide a FREE way to unlock the bootloader. For my old Galaxy S3, it was FREE, for my N5, N4, Infuse 4G, N7/N7(2013) all FREE methods of unlocking the bootloader. Why would I pay anymore on this phone instead of just selling it for another phone that has a FREE method of unlocking.
I'll take all responsibility and understand that Samsung/AT&T will take no blame in the event that I brick my device, because I'm not an idiot and have and understanding of basic instructions. In reality, that's all it takes. An official release with step-by-step instructions, with a disclaimer that you are voiding your own warranty and they take no responsibility, which is exactly what HTC did;
It is our responsibility to caution you that not all claims resulting or caused by or from the unlocking of the bootloader may be covered under warranty.
We strongly suggest that you do not unlock the bootloader unless you are confident that you understand the risks involved.
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It is literally that easy.

Ok, Way back "When", Android was only a dream the whole idea behind it was that it is "Open Source" based off of unix/linux. Meaning anyone can contribute to, modify code, build kernels etc. etc. THis is still the case anyone can still do all these things whether or not you have a locked bootloader. Bootloaders are proprietary code not Open Source, neither are the Carrier provided APPs.
So what this boils down to is the carriers aren't violating any laws or regulations by locking the bootloader. So what this amounts to is the it is up to the manufacturer to unlock the BL and up to the Carrier to allow the open source access to their APPs.
We all at times seem to forget that it is not ATT, Verizon or any other carrier that is locking the BL it is the MFG, now granted 99% of the timeit is at the request of the Carrier, it's all part of doing business. It's not the carrier who provides the means to unlock the BL it is the MFG that does so, Yelling at ATT, Verizon or any other carrier is fruitless.
all things being equal - I wouldn't pay anything it really isnt that important to me (Notice I said ME).

$25 for sure. Great idea and hopefully this gets passed soon!

Questions about bootloader relock

So here's my situation, I have an at&t nexus 6 for as long as the phone is sold on at&t. I actually work for at&t and it's my company phone and I'm never going to switch out. But eventually when the phone goes end of life, I'll have to give it back. So if I unlock the bootloader and root, I will have to give it back to them and they will see that one of their employees voided the warranty, because I don't think I can relock the bootloader without some kind of message letting the entire world know that it was unlocked at some point. I'm also worried that the unlock/relock will have some sort of timestamp so they will be able to see when I do it. I tried searching for the answer to my ultimate question but found nothing, so I ask you fine people: is there a way to relock the bootloader while somehow hiding the fact that I tampered with it?
Thanks everyone! I'd really love to greenify and grab a battery friendly kernel when one is available, battery life has been a little subpar to this point, imo.

Accidental double post, disregard

On nexus, there's usually not a flag tripped if you unlock the bootloader. I'm not sure if Motorola did it for AT&T or not, but I doubt it. Just flash factory images, and fastboot oem lock and you should be good to go. Unlocking the bootloader doesn't automatically void the warranty on Nexus devices.
Sent from my Nexus 6

Also make sure you put the death Star splash screen back when flashing the factory images.

When you unlock usually it sets tamper flag to let warranty departments know the bootloader has been unlocked in the past. This app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.segv11.bootunlocker&hl=en allowed Nexus users to relock and reset the tamper flag in the past but I'm not sure if it works or has been updated for the new devices yet.

AndrasLOHF said:
When you unlock usually it sets tamper flag to let warranty departments know the bootloader has been unlocked in the past. This app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.segv11.bootunlocker&hl=en allowed Nexus users to relock and reset the tamper flag in the past but I'm not sure if it works or has been updated for the new devices yet.
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Thanks for this, I'll email the developer and see if I can find out more about it [emoji106]

So in case anyone else ever needs to research this topic I figured I'd update, I emailed the developer of bootunlocker and haven't received anything back yet. It's only been a day so I'm still hopeful, but I also haven't seen a single ago review from anyone using the nexus 6. Since this is my company phone I am afraid to test but if I come across anything I will add it here.

Here's my opinion:
I really really doubt that your employer is going to be check (or care) whether the tamper flag was tripped or not. They will likely check for physical damage, custom ROM, encryption status and your bootloader status. Unless you pissed off your IT person and he just wants to find some problem and decides to check anything more, it is unlikely they will bother. And even if they did, plead ignorance (play dumb).
I (in all likelihood) do not work for your employer, so please use your better judgement.

jj14 said:
Here's my opinion:
I really really doubt that your employer is going to be check (or care) whether the tamper flag was tripped or not. They will likely check for physical damage, custom ROM, encryption status and your bootloader status. Unless you pissed off your IT person and he just wants to find some problem and decides to check anything more, it is unlikely they will bother. And even if they did, plead ignorance (play dumb).
I (in all likelihood) do not work for your employer, so please use your better judgement.
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Well I'm a sales consultant in a store. As far as I know when they send them back it's the same process as warranty. You send it back, they check for damage, they flash stock firmware, and refurb it for use as a warranty exchange, as you stated. However, if I'm wrong I could potentially lose my job for tampering with company property. That's why I haven't done it yet and it's why I probably won't. I need a 100% guarantee that there will be no evidence of tampering and there's no such thing in this world. This could still have good info if someone needs to research the topic of bootloader relock but I think until a few more services get art support anyway I really don't need unlock/root that badly. I just need to keep my turbocharger handy for now.

pokedroid said:
Well I'm a sales consultant in a store. As far as I know when they send them back it's the same process as warranty. You send it back, they check for damage, they flash stock firmware, and refurb it for use as a warranty exchange, as you stated. However, if I'm wrong I could potentially lose my job for tampering with company property. That's why I haven't done it yet and it's why I probably won't. I need a 100% guarantee that there will be no evidence of tampering and there's no such thing in this world. This could still have good info if someone needs to research the topic of bootloader relock but I think until a few more services get art support anyway I really don't need unlock/root that badly. I just need to keep my turbocharger handy for now.
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Any phone sent back is checked by a tech for if it has damage, water damage, and the number matches so they can mark the account as having it returned, if it boots, they are going to immediately flash it to stock and then verify it works, and move on to the next phone .... Really.
It's just above the conversation of a person with a unlocked rooted phone who has actually bricked it (not thought so in 99% of cases here in which members have resurrected it), if it was turned in bricked, they verify it doesn't even boot at all, and it gets scrapped for parts for other refurbs to get assembled, busted screens, etc. and then they move on to another phone return.
I know this because I've worked with people who used to do it for Asurion ... I wouldn't worry about it.

pokedroid said:
Well I'm a sales consultant in a store. As far as I know when they send them back it's the same process as warranty. You send it back, they check for damage, they flash stock firmware, and refurb it for use as a warranty exchange, as you stated. However, if I'm wrong I could potentially lose my job for tampering with company property. That's why I haven't done it yet and it's why I probably won't. I need a 100% guarantee that there will be no evidence of tampering and there's no such thing in this world. This could still have good info if someone needs to research the topic of bootloader relock but I think until a few more services get art support anyway I really don't need unlock/root that badly. I just need to keep my turbocharger handy for now.
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While there shouldn't be a problem, there are a lot of 'what ifs' to consider. What if you end up with a broken screen or major water damage where your phone doesn't even turn on? If the IT team is able to change the screen/battery, they will see the unlocked bootloader - etc. Anyway, given your concern, I agree - play it safe.
Personally, the main reason I root are for Xprivacy (not possible at the moment because XPosed/ART issues), and for adaway. (For example: XDA forums using chrome are very very cluttered with ads and I find it almost unusable. Yes, I could use tapatalk or similar apps, but the ads are on almost all sites. I find adaway to be a must have.

jj14 said:
While there shouldn't be a problem, there are a lot of 'what ifs' to consider. What if you end up with a broken screen or major water damage where your phone doesn't even turn on? If the IT team is able to change the screen/battery, they will see the unlocked bootloader - etc. Anyway, given your concern, I agree - play it safe.
Personally, the main reason I root are for Xprivacy (not possible at the moment because XPosed/ART issues), and for adaway. (For example: XDA forums using chrome are very very cluttered with ads and I find it almost unusable. Yes, I could use tapatalk or similar apps, but the ads are on almost all sites. I find adaway to be a must have.
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I agree. Same here the main reason I root is for greenify (that one makes sense) and xposed (if your devices' screen is over 4.7" check out a module called "flying android", its a game changer!! True one-handed operation). I think if/when xposed gets art support I'll just go buy my own. I'm in love with the nexus 6 and my only complaint is the front facing camera quality, but unless my wife is around I don't touch that camera anyway haha

is there a fast boot command that allows you to check the tamper status like the nexus 5 'fastboot oem device-info' ?

pokedroid said:
Well I'm a sales consultant in a store. As far as I know when they send them back it's the same process as warranty. You send it back, they check for damage, they flash stock firmware, and refurb it for use as a warranty exchange, as you stated. However, if I'm wrong I could potentially lose my job for tampering with company property. That's why I haven't done it yet and it's why I probably won't. I need a 100% guarantee that there will be no evidence of tampering and there's no such thing in this world. This could still have good info if someone needs to research the topic of bootloader relock but I think until a few more services get art support anyway I really don't need unlock/root that badly. I just need to keep my turbocharger handy for now.
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It is a VERY long stretch to assume that you'll get in any kind of trouble for using the device ***AS INTENDED***. Bootloader unlock, ESPECIALLY on a Nexus device, DOES NOT VOID THE WARRANTY!!! (even if they warn you that it *might* -- that warning is really there just to tell you that you are losing SOFTWARE SUPPORT). I.e., if you eff up the system image so it won't boot, then you send it back for warranty, they will tell you that you effed it up yourself and send you a repair bill. THAT IS ALL IT IS FOR.
Even the device INSTRUCTIONS tell you how to unlock it!
https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images
Nobody can possibly claim that this is anything besides INTENDED USE, because the instructions explain how to do it!

doitright said:
It is a VERY long stretch to assume that you'll get in any kind of trouble for using the device ***AS INTENDED***. Bootloader unlock, ESPECIALLY on a Nexus device, DOES NOT VOID THE WARRANTY!!! (even if they warn you that it *might* -- that warning is really there just to tell you that you are losing SOFTWARE SUPPORT). I.e., if you eff up the system image so it won't boot, then you send it back for warranty, they will tell you that you effed it up yourself and send you a repair bill. THAT IS ALL IT IS FOR.
Even the device INSTRUCTIONS tell you how to unlock it!
https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images
Nobody can possibly claim that this is anything besides INTENDED USE, because the instructions explain how to do it!
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Its true that Google play purchased devices will not be voided by unlocking, but pretty much any other carrier or retailer will void your warranty. This was true on the nexus 5 too. Play devices fine, but anything going back to LG would be voided if unlocked. There's no reason to assume its different on the 6.
I specifically bought from Play this time to prevent this being an issue for me.

but does locking the bootloader hide any signs of tampering, at least that Motorola would look for...........?
what is status code 2, someone must know....?

just bumping this up.............
any experts out there know how to check the nexus 6 for tamper flags?
do you know what the bootloader: locked status code: 2 means....
looking for reassurance..............

mediaman123 said:
just bumping this up.............
any experts out there know how to check the nexus 6 for tamper flags?
do you know what the bootloader: locked status code: 2 means....
looking for reassurance..............
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Please don't bump threads within 24 hours. Its against the rules.
I see you're asking similar questions all over the place. I'm going to answer what I hope is all of your questions in 1 post.
How can you check the Tamper flag? We do not know. There seems to be no fastboot command to check it.
What is status 2?: We don't know. We assume it means "locked" but we can't be sure. Unlocked seems to be status 3.
What is the most I can do to ensure warranty? Relock your bootloader.
Is this enough to get warranty? If you bought from Google directly, it doesnt matter if it is locked or not. Anywhere else, we dont know.

Thanks for the reassurance......

rootSU said:
Its true that Google play purchased devices will not be voided by unlocking, but pretty much any other carrier or retailer will void your warranty. This was true on the nexus 5 too. Play devices fine, but anything going back to LG would be voided if unlocked. There's no reason to assume its different on the 6.
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Absolutely (a) nonsense, (b) illegal of them.
Those LG "service reps" (aka India), are trained to try to avoid paying out warranty claims. Hence manufacturing details that are in direct violation of the laws where the devices are sold, and even the INTENTION of the manufacturer. Some people (you) just need to try a little harder to escalate matters before giving in to that kind of tactic.