Database Develop

Right or Wrong?

OK, I have seen lots of threads about people returning or replacing rooted phones, and getting literally RAGED at by this community, so I am personally wondering, what is seen as wrong as right? I am not trying to start a post war, I am just honestly wondering... here is what it seems to be from what I have read.
If Not Rooted
*warranty covers failure, but not drops/spills etc.
*Covers spills/drops only if you pay extra for insurance, and u replace through insurance.
IF ROOTED/MODDED in any way
*Normal WARRANTY VOID FROM EVERYTHING
*IF you have insurance, AND you go through INSURANCE for replacement and pay, then it is OK as you pay for the service.
Correct here or not?

If not rooted.. correct points..
If rooted.. point 1 is correct... point 2.. you would have to look at the insurance TnC
ddggttff3 said:
OK, I have seen lots of threads about people returning or replacing rooted phones, and getting literally RAGED at by this community, so I am personally wondering, what is seen as wrong as right? I am not trying to start a post war, I am just honestly wondering... here is what it seems to be from what I have read.
If Not Rooted
*warranty covers failure, but not drops/spills etc.
*Covers spills/drops only if you pay extra for insurance, and u replace through insurance.
IF ROOTED/MODDED in any way
*Normal WARRANTY VOID FROM EVERYTHING
*IF you have insurance, AND you go through INSURANCE for replacement and pay, then it is OK as you pay for the service.
Correct here or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I think this is an excellent thread and a much needed discussion.
If you root and flash anything to your phone at all, you have voided your warranty and should take responsibility for the consequences.
I have never had insurance, but my understanding of full coverage is that it has no restrictions. You are paying both a monthly premium plus a very high deductible for a replacement phone and you can throw it under a bus if you want to.
That seems perfectly reasonable to me...

Here's the deal, you should not expect your manufacturer or service provider to replace the phone you ****ed up by tinkering with it, this is what many people have done and it's called fraud, it's also a major reason why OEMs are starting to lock them down tight (along with people getting free tethering). If, however, you rooted and are having issues with the phones that are plain bugs with the stock software than you have every right to restore it and request a replacement. If you hack your phone up and screw up the boot process it is your fault and you need to take the hit. In most cases the phone can be recovered anyways, people are just too quick to assume it's "bricked" and don't know what they're doing.
If you pay extra for insurance then I suppose you have the right to use it but I still think it's not very moral, the insurance is supposed to cover accidental damage or loss, not failure due to hacking. It's kind of like when people drop their phones in toilets on purpose or they magically 'get lost' or 'stolen' so they can get a different phone.

Since these smart phones are just mini computers has anyone considered how computer manufacturers warranty their products?
If i give myself administrator access, or install a clean OS, or install linux, it doesn't void my warranty.
Now if something I did caused a hardware failure (ie overclocking the processor) than obviously the warranty FOR THAT PART is null and void. But not the warranty on the ram or hard drive.
I look at rooting and roming the same way. BUT I also know how to recover from my mistakes and will only do a restore/replacement through warranty channels if its hardware related.
If you mess around and dont know what you're doing, that's a different story.

ddggttff3 said:
OK, I have seen lots of threads about people returning or replacing rooted phones, and getting literally RAGED at by this community, so I am personally wondering, what is seen as wrong as right? I am not trying to start a post war, I am just honestly wondering... here is what it seems to be from what I have read.
If Not Rooted
*warranty covers failure, but not drops/spills etc.
*Covers spills/drops only if you pay extra for insurance, and u replace through insurance.
IF ROOTED/MODDED in any way
*Normal WARRANTY VOID FROM EVERYTHING
*IF you have insurance, AND you go through INSURANCE for replacement and pay, then it is OK as you pay for the service.
Correct here or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems spot on to me.

"If you root and flash anything to your phone at all, you have voided your warranty and should take responsibility for the consequences."
"Here's the deal, you should not expect your manufacturer or service provider to replace the phone you ****ed up by tinkering with it, this is what many people have done and it's called fraud, it's also a major reason why OEMs are starting to lock them down tight (along with people getting free tethering)."
Nothing I did injured the phone or software. To back up your apps and SETTINGs correctly, you need root. I bought the phone with a data connection issue and a rebooting issue, I didn't create them. If Moto and Verizon aren't going to push software to repair these issues, I have the right to do it with a leaked file. If they don't want the return phones, release the OS's without all the verifications.
I purchased a phone that workes as advertised per MY contract and I didn't receive that.
As for the tether issue, Verizon shouldn't have the right to control how you use data plan, especially if it's capped.
It wouldn't surprise me if alot of the haters are Verizon employees. They lurked everywhere on Crackberry when I was still using my BB and running hybrids.

Unless I run software that melts the inside of my phone how is it really voiding the warrnty? Seriously, any software problem we create could be easily fixed with the properly released software.
You give me a phone that works all the time and ill stop messing with it. Verizon doesn't care about incovincing you, why would I care if I cause them trouble by tampering with my phone and then exchanging it, when they can easily release the software so I can fix it myself?
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using XDA App

I'm not a lawyer so take this with a grain of salt but the "voided warranty" issue can be looked at in the framework of cars. I believe there is a law that says a warranty on one part of the car can't be considered void because of some other alteration. For example if you get an aftermarket exhaust and then a week later your transmission bites the dust the manufacturer can't say that the exhaust you put on caused a problem with the transmission so they therefore must honor the warranty on the transmission. So if you root your phone, put a new ROM on it, and then your display goes out then in theory, the law should say they still have to honor the warranty because the software change didn't cause the display to fail. Anything else is on you. So, if you are dissatisfied with any aspect of the performance of the stock phone which leads you flash something that you are equally dissatisfied with then legally you have given up your right to complain even if the same problem existed with the stock phone. Morally, I might argue that if the problem existed from the onset and it continued to exist after the flash then you only tried to mitigate the original problem so in certain circumstances you might be justified in returning. If you flash something that causes FCs, or some other new problem then that is squarely on you.
The insurance question isn't a question either morally or legally. I don't believe there are any insurance policies that take into account software tinkering so you shouldn't lean on the insurance for your mistakes. I don't think insurance for bad flashes could be offered as they'd suffer from adverse selection. Adverse selection is where the only people that want to buy insurance are the ones that will almost certainly use it. If the only people that want to buy insurance are the ones that will almost certainly use it then the premium would end up very high.
As far as the analogy to desktop/laptop warranties, I don't think that is a good analogy. With desktop PCs the OS lives on a hard drive and the BIOS is rarely if ever flashed. With phones, the OS lives on firmware so updates are all flashed which in some cases is a process that can't be undone without a JTAG (or similar). With a desktop computer, no matter how bad you screw up your system with viruses, malware, driver corruption, etc; you can just reformat your hard drive and start over.
just my $0.02

You are right on both counts. If your device is acting up mechanically or electrically then the warranty covers, provided it is not rooted when it comes into Verizon. That's the whole key right there. Just don't mention it was rooted. Here is why. The warranty says it has to be mechanical or electrical failures. Rooting (except for overclocking) wont cause that. It can mimic it, for instance the screen cutting out or power cycles. As long as its locked and stock when it comes into the returns warehouse your ok.
As for insurance. If its Asurion, which it probably is, they will replace it. Insurance covers loss, theft, and damage. Bricking it is no different than dropping it in the lake, or a glass of tea. It's not fraud. It's what you pay for.
Now for a short soap box. Don't just brick it and call Asurion. Try to fix it, it's usually fixable.
Now for the Verizon Employee hater. Get bent. Those employees are here on their own time doing things with their equipment. Im sick of people making them out as the bad guys. They work their ass off day in and day out. Its a job. For those that say that employee should be ashamed of working for the company, get real. Its a service. The employees need a job and most try very hard to balance the policies and customer satisfaction. I don't see you quitting your job because people *****. You take it with a grain of salt, help how you can, and move on. The people that complain constantly are a very small minority that are no better than trolls. Complain when you have need to. Like the bs $2.00 convenience fee. Thanks to customer complaints it was cancelled.
I'll take my soap box and go now. Just keep in mind, working for a company, doesn't make one bad.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

I blame Motorola for letting us soak test for them. So if people want to return the devices that arr rooted then go for it. Motor reflashes everything anyhow
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

I'm surprised that the manufacturers don't just put put up a site for each phone. You go, read what keys get you in recovery, Fast Boot, etc., plug your phone in via USB and flash a new image. The best devs here never (super rare) truly "Brick" their phones. I'm sure moto could give us that technology, I don't see why they don't...I bet they would have a lot less refurbs required.
Can somebody 'splain it to me?

junksecret said:
I'm surprised that the manufacturers don't just put put up a site for each phone. You go, read what keys get you in recovery, Fast Boot, etc., plug your phone in via USB and flash a new image. The best devs here never (super rare) truly "Brick" their phones. I'm sure moto could give us that technology, I don't see why they don't...I bet they would have a lot less refurbs required.
Can somebody 'splain it to me?
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Click to collapse
I agree. If you have the where-with-all to hose your phone by modding, you likely have the ability to fix it with the right tools being provided. Those that hack will hack. Those that don't won't. By providing the tools to restore it does not open the door to more folks hacking their phones and likely will reduce the number of units going back, IMHO.
Also -- I see no reason why a software hack should void a HARDWARE warranty. Sure -- support should no longer be provided for "soft" issues, but if there is a HARDWARE issue, i.e. battery won't hold a charge or display goes out, etc., a ROOT or ROM should not be reason for denying the required warranty service. Again -- IMHO.

I think if you hard brick your phone you should eat it. Your fault.
I've had 3 phones with locked bootloaders (and fixed others) and I've always recovered from a brick.
If you brick your phone because you tried to flash something or RSD with a low battery - your fault.
Verizon sent me a Razr over my Bionic due to me complaining about my data issues. I restored it (system/kernel) and sent it back. Phone is in flawless condition. I compare it to jaywalking or pirating a song/movie. Moral decision.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Why should verizon/moto unlock our bootloaders?

It appears that there is a guy who is interning at Motorola that wants to get ahold of some bigwigs and help voice our frustration. Here is a link if you have any ideas, please share them!
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/xty65/i_am_interning_at_a_major_fortune_500_company_who/

Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands

DoubleYouPee said:
Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands
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Click to collapse
Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.

jesusishere said:
Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would they need to have a locked bootloader to have that contract?

VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol

Here is the reason boot loaders are locked...
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.

vbhokiefan said:
VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol
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Click to collapse
Well nowadays all data plans are being metered anyways. If I buy 2GB per month why does Verizon care if its used on my laptop instead of my phone for example. There was a recent FCC lawsuit against Verizon for separate tethering charges because it went against some agreement they had when they bought the 4G spectrum.
ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
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Click to collapse
Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.

spunker88 said:
Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.
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Click to collapse
From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)

doogald said:
From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)
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Click to collapse
+1

ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.
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Click to collapse
I don't really like this argument though, because most of those bricks are CAUSED by the locked bootloaders and other "security" put into place. These phones are just computers with radios inside. I've never bricked my (desktop or laptop) computer, and neither have most people, because computers have been designed such that the process that brings the computer up (the BIOS) is simple, reliable, and will load anything you tell it to, negating the need to mess with it.
The OG Droid was borderline software unbrickable, because you could leave the stock bootloader in place, and the stock bootloader was able to get you back home (SBF) by itself. If all phones were built like this today, and manufacturer's had a utility to restore the phone back to stock available on their website, the people returning devices due to softbricking would probably go way down, because a softbrick would be no big deal.

Can detect root when you call VZW?

I called Verizon as I am having GPS issues. I was going to get a cert like new and while I wait, restore and send back non-working unit. When I called, the woman said she was going to run some diagnostics on her end (new to me) and said that she can detect that the software had been altered. She recommended that I reset the phone because if she put this through and it was rooted, I would be charged.
Are they able to tell your phone is rooted from their system without having it? Were they always able to do that?

Bwangster12 said:
I called Verizon as I am having GPS issues. I was going to get a cert like new and while I wait, restore and send back non-working unit. When I called, the woman said she was going to run some diagnostics on her end (new to me) and said that she can detect that the software had been altered. She recommended that I reset the phone because if she put this through and it was rooted, I would be charged.
Are they able to tell your phone is rooted from their system without having it? Were they always able to do that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It wouldn't surprise me, but I can't imagine technology is that advanced, considering they are basically violating your privacy with a tool such as the one described. They could basically "tap" into your phone firmware/software whenever they want, and grab whatever information they want. I couldn't imagine, while possible, they would actually do it.
That said, you need to deal directly with LG. Verizon, along with many other carriers, will void your warranty at the flip of a dime because it's more income for them. I was an LG certified technician from 2005-2010, and while a technician, we did not void warranties for rooting unless we found evidence the firmware/software change interrupted the hardware, such as overclocking.
Once again, deal with LG directly. Verizon will snub you whenever they get the chance. Also, did I mention that most representatives have no idea what the hell they're talking about in the first place?

UrbanBounca said:
It wouldn't surprise me, but I can't imagine technology is that advanced, considering they are basically violating your privacy with a tool such as the one described. They could basically "tap" into your phone firmware/software whenever they want, and grab whatever information they want. I couldn't imagine, while possible, they would actually do it.
That said, you need to deal directly with LG. Verizon, along with many other carriers, will void your warranty at the flip of a dime because it's more income for them. I was an LG certified technician from 2005-2010, and while a technician, we did not void warranties for rooting unless we found evidence the firmware/software change interrupted the hardware, such as overclocking.
Once again, deal with LG directly. Verizon will snub you whenever they get the chance. Also, did I mention that most representatives have no idea what the hell they're talking about in the first place?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
She definitely str8 up said "it looks like your phone has been rooted" after she did her "diagnostics" when calling *611. SO... the tool exists.
The problem I have with sending it to LG for fixing is that I have to pay for shipping it, wait a week or two without a phone while they fix it, etc. With VZW, I can restore to stock and then get a phone immediatley.

Bwangster12 said:
The problem I have with sending it to LG for fixing is that I have to pay for shipping it, wait a week or two without a phone while they fix it, etc. With VZW, I can restore to stock and then get a phone immediatley.
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Click to collapse
Well, that's your option. Did you restore it? Whether the representative can "detect" root or not, when they see a completely stock phone in retail, they'll probably replace it.
That said, you've got me curious as to whether Verizon can actually detect root over the phone. The research has started. . .
Edit: After about five minutes, it's apparently possible via a Verizon Remote Diagnostics app that they send out with updates. I definitely don't agree with it, and I'm glad I can say that with custom ROM's, that garbage is removed.
http://phandroid.com/2012/03/20/droid-charge-fp1-update-brings-verizon-remote-diagnostics-bug-fixes/

Verizon knows at all times what software your running. I used to work as tech support for VZW. Than can also see how many apps u got, how much memory u used, etc. Its an invasion of of privacy. But what can we do?
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

MicroMod777 said:
Verizon knows at all times what software your running. I used to work as tech support for VZW. Than can also see how many apps u got, how much memory u used, etc. Its an invasion of of privacy. But what can we do?
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, she said to me over the phone, after saying she was going to run diagnostics... "you've got 40% memory available, etc etc."
I am running a custom rom though. I'm using Xdabbeb's 24A. Could that tool not been removed or hidden?

Just turn off radios when calling. Then say, "I don't know whats wrong... I have 4 bars of 4G"

Need a replacement for my Moto X. Called them up and the guy could tell my phone was rooted but said he would ship out regardless. 5 days later no confirmation of it being shipped and it hadn't arrived so I gave them a call. It said your certified replacement device has been denied because you are rooted.

So I wonder if the steps to get a phone replaced would be to return to unrooted stock, then contact customer service? Or do they keep track of everything we do from the second we turn it on?
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

njstein said:
So I wonder if the steps to get a phone replaced would be to return to unrooted stock, then contact customer service? Or do they keep track of everything we do from the second we turn it on?
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm now curious of the same question. I seriously can't believe they can see all that, even with a custom ROM. I mean, since this has been confirmed, couldn't this be a lawsuit of some sort? Am I the only person feeling this way? It's a blatant invasion of privacy.

It really is @UrbanBounca, but they'd probably tell you it's hidden in the agreement we all signed or the classic "don't like it, don't use our service". Only the big boys can get away with these kind of shenanigans.
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

I bought my phone outright for 399 or 499, I forget. I have a month to month contract on the UDP plan. Its my frigging phone. I'll do what I want with it. I understand when I root, I loose the warranty. I understand that if I'm tethering, I could get my wrist slapped.
Why call VZW for anything?
If your worried, don't root. If not, suck it up buttercups!!
I went thru the same thing with my Dodge Truck. I came to the conclusion that I am my own warranty station, plain and simple.
If your gonna do stuff to YOUR possessions, that might void a warranty, its not the manufactures fault, its yours, but YOU have the choice.
Of course VZW can see you phone, then they give all that info to the NSA for tax breaks

After a bit more research, I've found that they can only run diagnostics if (a) you're on ICS or above and (b) you have the MyVerizon app installed.
I don't have the MyVerizon app, and after hearing this, I won't be installing it.

Why would anyone use MyVerizon? It is certainly not NEEDED for anything productive.
Thanks Devs, from my LG G2

It'd definitely the my Verizon app. Even if you block superuser access to it they can still detect it. The customer service reps also make you install it when going through the process. I'm leaving Verizon next month after my last line is free from contract. 3 lines with unlimited data going up on eBay.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

Verizon's Remote Diagnostics allows them to remotely control your device to fix things. I used to do this all the time. Usually its somebody that doesn't have a clue how to use android. So, I'd ask for permission, they'd get a pop up to put in a pin number I've give them, and i'd have total control of their phone, even view some fun stuff in their galleries!!! LOL Sometimes it was the only way to fix a problem than have granny go to a local verizon store.
....But before we even get permission to control a person's phone, on Verizon's side of things the Diagnostic tool lists everything about the phone. It doesn't matter what rom you have, it will show up. Anything in Settings they can mostly see.
If you want to avoid problems, best bet it to do a full stock restore, and run your phone for a few minutes before you call so their systems can see your full stock and not rooted.
Some Verizon Tech Reps are very anal, and will give you a hard time for anything, like if they are on a mission to discredit anybody that calls. Others, like I was mostly took your word for your problem. If I could fix it, I would, or I just send a replacement. I could care less if your rooted. I'd send anybody a phone. 80% of the time its a snobby business man, making $500k a year, mad as hell his phone freezes or his battery drains fast, and demands a replacement. I never argued with these kind of people, as they made the big bucks and I only made $40k a year. I even told one guy I didn't get paid enough to argue with him, and I'll send him a replacement no problem. lol

MicroMod777 said:
Verizon's Remote Diagnostics allows them to remotely control your device to fix things. I used to do this all the time. Usually its somebody that doesn't have a clue how to use android. So, I'd ask for permission, they'd get a pop up to put in a pin number I've give them, and i'd have total control of their phone, even view some fun stuff in their galleries!!! LOL Sometimes it was the only way to fix a problem than have granny go to a local verizon store.
....But before we even get permission to control a person's phone, on Verizon's side of things the Diagnostic tool lists everything about the phone. It doesn't matter what rom you have, it will show up. Anything in Settings they can mostly see.
If you want to avoid problems, best bet it to do a full stock restore, and run your phone for a few minutes before you call so their systems can see your full stock and not rooted.
Some Verizon Tech Reps are very anal, and will give you a hard time for anything, like if they are on a mission to discredit anybody that calls. Others, like I was mostly took your word for your problem. If I could fix it, I would, or I just send a replacement. I could care less if your rooted. I'd send anybody a phone. 80% of the time its a snobby business man, making $500k a year, mad as hell his phone freezes or his battery drains fast, and demands a replacement. I never argued with these kind of people, as they made the big bucks and I only made $40k a year. I even told one guy I didn't get paid enough to argue with him, and I'll send him a replacement no problem. lol
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The women I got kept saying to do a "factory reset" because if she put in the order for a CLNR that I would be charged if I was rooted. After I got off the call, I got the impression she was telling me to unroot my phone, restore to stock and then call back to place the order.
I had a custom rom, but it was stock based. I believe I did have the MyVerizon app on there.

I just rooted my 24A G2 and the moment I rebooted, I got a notification popup saying 'You have modified the system software' or something like that. So it is phoning home (no pun intended) and tripping a flag somewhere. I'm sure no one is looking at it unless you call, so before you call, flash back to 100% stock.

UrbanBounca said:
I'm now curious of the same question. I seriously can't believe they can see all that, even with a custom ROM. I mean, since this has been confirmed, couldn't this be a lawsuit of some sort? Am I the only person feeling this way? It's a blatant invasion of privacy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not an invasion of privacy. They are protecting themselves from all of the warranty fraud that happens when people who complain about their phones try to return them under warranty.
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2

When it comes to having to get a new phone, Verizon will not give you one if you have altered the phone. However, let's say your headphone jack stopped working and you need to send it in to get it repaired. They HAVE to fix your phone, regardless if it's rooted or not. Why? Because the only way they can't do warranty repairs with your phone being rooted, is because they HAVE to prove that rooting directly caused the issue with the phone. This is per the Magnusson-Moss Act Chapter 50 of United States Code Section 2304, which states:
Waiver of standards
The performance of the duties under subsection (a) of this section shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance). (d) Remedy without charge For purposes of this section and of section 2302© of this
title, the term "without charge" means that the warrantor may not assess the consumer for any costs the warrantor or his representatives incur in connection with the required remedy of a warranted consumer product. An obligation under subsection (a)(1)(A) of this section to remedy without charge does not necessarily require the warrantor to compensate the consumer for incidental expenses; however, if any incidental expenses are incurred because the remedy is not made within a reasonable time or
because the warrantor imposed an unreasonable duty upon the consumer as a condition of securing remedy, then the consumer shall be entitled to recover reasonable incidental expenses which are so incurred in any action against the warrantor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So how does that mean my warranty isn't voided? If you go out and buy a brand new G2, you root it and have no issues. No problems. Then a 6 weeks later, you plug in your headphones and all of a sudden, no sound is coming out of your head phones. Or the sound coming out of your speaker is crackling. Or your SIM/SD card door breaks off. Just because you rooted your phone, LG still has to honor the 1 year warranty pertaining to THOSE problems. They will STILL have to fix your headphone jack, THEY STILL have to install a new speaker and STILL have to give you a new SIM/SD card door.
Reference;
http://www.droidrzr.com/index.php/t...-users-may-have-about-rooting-and-warranties/

How Much Would You Pay 2 Unlock Bootloader

Original Thread is here>>>
http://forum.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5/general/verizon-wireless-developer-program-t2853345
This is for any Verizon device, not just the Samsung Galaxy S5. Please spread this to other device forums!
Recently, I came up with an idea of a developer program. What this program would do is allow people to pay a fee to have their bootloaders unlocked, regardless of the device. This would allow people the freedom to modify their device or develop for it without any issues. I did a little research and could not find anything similar to this (besides developer edition devices). So, with this idea in mind, I sent an email to the Executive VP of Verizon. Twenty minutes later, I received a phone call from his office. Long story short (there was a lot of talk about rooting and unlocking), the guy who called me put my idea through to marketing. However, since only about 1% of customers root their devices, there is concern of the interest in this.
What this thread is for is to see how many people would be interested in this program.
What would you be willing to pay to customer service to have your bootloader unlocked?
$0
$5
$25
$50
$100
Please use only one of those five prices, and no other prices.
You may discuss this in further detail in this thread. However, arguing, trolling, slandering, bickering, and anything else that will clutter this thread and overwork the moderators WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. This thread is not the thread to argue with others over the details since the idea is already in marketing. If you wish to argue or troll, please take it somewhere else. And, as always, please follow the forum rules. Thank you for looking at this thread.
For those who are concerned with the warranty, please read this. Huge thanks to @shootind5nukes for this info.
Quote:
Just so everyone knows the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act prevents someone from totally VOIDING a warranty. Verizon/Samsung could only deny to warranty something if they can prove something you did cause the issue. Anything that has nothing to do with what you did still has to be under warranty. If you LCD started to lose color or get dead pixels that would still have to be covered because that has nothing to do with bootloaders and flashing ROMS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuso...s_Warranty_Act
"The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance."
I learned about this when I was going to get my truck lifted. I was told if I did it would VOID my truck's warranty. After looking into it further it didn't actually VOID anything. But for example if I went in to get my suspension fixed because it broke they could argue that the lift kit put stress on the suspension and that's why it failed so they would not have to cover it. But if my motor exploded because it was made out of cheese it would still be under warranty, the entire warranty can never be voided. Only damage caused by what you did. Food for thought guys.
If anyone has anything to add please do.
Here is the email of the VP I emailed if you want to email him about the developer program. Again, thank you @shootind5nukes for this idea.
http://about.verizon.com/index.php/a...utt&e=139&h=8b
IF YOU DO EMAIL HIM, BE POLITE AND RESPECTFUL PLEASE.​

I wouldn't pay anything to unlock my Verizon device bootloader... because I don't have Verizon... no one on this forum has Verizon.
The VP of Verizon has no say about the ATT bootloader unlock, anyway, lol

Just an FYI
LuckyColdJohnson said:
Original Thread is here>>>
http://forum.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5/general/verizon-wireless-developer-program-t2853345
IF YOU DO EMAIL HIM, BE POLITE AND RESPECTFUL PLEASE.​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OP
You really need to check and double check what you write before you post it ..
At least click on Preview Post Before you post anything
Thanks

I know it's Verizon, I just thought it was interesting and brings ideas. It's just a question but if they see it, maybe things can change. Like HTCs website where you have an unlock option. Anything is possible.

LuckyColdJohnson said:
I know it's Verizon, I just thought it was interesting and brings ideas. It's just a question but if they see it, maybe things can change. Like HTCs website where you have an unlock option. Anything is possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed....
And thank you for posting...
I'd pay $100.00 for an unlocked bootloader....BTW.....g

LuckyColdJohnson said:
I know it's Verizon, I just thought it was interesting and brings ideas. It's just a question but if they see it, maybe things can change. Like HTCs website where you have an unlock option. Anything is possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly the point. For HTC, they provide a FREE way to unlock the bootloader. For my old Galaxy S3, it was FREE, for my N5, N4, Infuse 4G, N7/N7(2013) all FREE methods of unlocking the bootloader. Why would I pay anymore on this phone instead of just selling it for another phone that has a FREE method of unlocking.
I'll take all responsibility and understand that Samsung/AT&T will take no blame in the event that I brick my device, because I'm not an idiot and have and understanding of basic instructions. In reality, that's all it takes. An official release with step-by-step instructions, with a disclaimer that you are voiding your own warranty and they take no responsibility, which is exactly what HTC did;
It is our responsibility to caution you that not all claims resulting or caused by or from the unlocking of the bootloader may be covered under warranty.
We strongly suggest that you do not unlock the bootloader unless you are confident that you understand the risks involved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is literally that easy.

Ok, Way back "When", Android was only a dream the whole idea behind it was that it is "Open Source" based off of unix/linux. Meaning anyone can contribute to, modify code, build kernels etc. etc. THis is still the case anyone can still do all these things whether or not you have a locked bootloader. Bootloaders are proprietary code not Open Source, neither are the Carrier provided APPs.
So what this boils down to is the carriers aren't violating any laws or regulations by locking the bootloader. So what this amounts to is the it is up to the manufacturer to unlock the BL and up to the Carrier to allow the open source access to their APPs.
We all at times seem to forget that it is not ATT, Verizon or any other carrier that is locking the BL it is the MFG, now granted 99% of the timeit is at the request of the Carrier, it's all part of doing business. It's not the carrier who provides the means to unlock the BL it is the MFG that does so, Yelling at ATT, Verizon or any other carrier is fruitless.
all things being equal - I wouldn't pay anything it really isnt that important to me (Notice I said ME).

$25 for sure. Great idea and hopefully this gets passed soon!

AT&T Unlock Bootloader petitions

Petitions to unlock bootloader on the AT&T Samsung Galaxy s5​
I'd like to have control over my phone because I paid a lot of money for it. I'd like to install a cleaner/faster ROM without all of the bloatware that comes stock. Android is an OPEN SOURCE mobile operating system, we should not be locked down from improving the quality of our smartphones. I have found some petitions that put effort into making it possible to give us our right to have our bootloaders unlocked.
Advantages of an unlocked bootloader:
# Developers will make a wide selection of custom ROMS and Kernels that will improve the speed of the phone, these can't be installed until our bootloader is unlocked.
# Rooting the phone will become a lot easier.
# With root access we can overclock our CPU to make the phone faster.
Disadvantage to an unlocked bootloader:
# IF you don't follow instructions to flashing correctly you can permanently brick your device. This is not a problem if you know what you're doing and/or follow directions very carefully.
LINKS
#1 change.org petition for Samsung AND Verizon
#2 Change.org petition for all androidsmarphones/tablets/etc
If anybody knows of anymore let us know in the comments!!
DISCLAIMER NOTES
## NEVER FLASH A ROM ON YOUR PHONE IF IT IS NOT MADE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC MODEL UNLESS THE DEVELOPER SAYS IT IS OKAY.
## i AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGES YOU MAY CAUSE TO YOUR PHONE, OR ANYTHING ELSE.
You may discuss this in further detail in this thread. However, arguing, trolling, slandering, bickering, and anything else that will clutter this thread and overwork the moderators WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. This thread is not the thread to argue with others over the details since the idea is already in marketing. If you wish to argue or troll, please take it somewhere else. And, as always, please follow the forum rules. Thank you for looking at this thread.
For those who are concerned with the warranty, please read this. Huge thanks to @shootind5nukes for this info.
Just so everyone knows the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act prevents someone from totally VOIDING a warranty. Verizon/Samsung could only deny to warranty something if they can prove something you did cause the issue. Anything that has nothing to do with what you did still has to be under warranty. If you LCD started to lose color or get dead pixels that would still have to be covered because that has nothing to do with bootloaders and flashing ROMS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuso...s_Warranty_Act
"The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance."
I learned about this when I was going to get my truck lifted. I was told if I did it would VOID my truck's warranty. After looking into it further it didn't actually VOID anything. But for example if I went in to get my suspension fixed because it broke they could argue that the lift kit put stress on the suspension and that's why it failed so they would not have to cover it. But if my motor exploded because it was made out of cheese it would still be under warranty, the entire warranty can never be voided. Only damage caused by what you did. Food for thought guys.
If anyone has anything to add please do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like my posts to be very clear and grammatically correct. If I could have worded anything better or made any mistakes, please let me know so I can correct it.

Don't hold your breath.

Good luck. I did the same thing. And nothing. Golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. Att has the gold in this case.

GDofWR420 said:
Good luck. I did the same thing. And nothing. Golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. Att has the gold in this case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're probably right, but just putting in an effort here. I'm hoping that the FCC finds this similar to carrier locking, they changed the laws for carrier locking because of petitions: http://www.fcc.gov/device-unlocking-faq

i actually just today put a complain on at&t's facebook page about use wanting a bootloader unlocking tool like with htc phones. i have heard no reply yet.

i root SGH i777 said:
i actually just today put a complain on at&t's facebook page about use wanting a bootloader unlocking tool like with htc phones. i have heard no reply yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't expect one. I've complained on their page multiple times and the only thing that came of it was getting blocked.

There's not enough demand for anyone to put any effort into freeing our bootloader. These petitions have been up for months and haven't reached the minimum requirements. Just get used to TW ROMs or don't support either AT&T or Samsung with the next phone you get and go the Stock Android path.

UnhoIy said:
There's not enough demand for anyone to put any effort into freeing our bootloader. These petitions have been up for months and haven't reached the minimum requirements. Just get used to TW ROMs or don't support either AT&T or Samsung with the next phone you get and go the Stock Android path.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Much agreed. I see a nexus device in my future

Just signed it. If they don't, it'll be hacked anyway.

I signed it. My signature by itself means nothing. My signature along with many others may help.

i root SGH i777 said:
i actually just today put a complain on at&t's facebook page about use wanting a bootloader unlocking tool like with htc phones. i have heard no reply yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm merely going to point this out, Complaining to ATT for a tool to unlock the bootloader is the wrong place to complain, it is HTC that provides the way to unlock the BL you would need to post that complaint on the Samsung webpage or facebook page

signed

Two more votes required!

signed both

i bought my s5 before i knew about the locked bootloader, so now im selling to buy a g600f

Isriam said:
i bought my s5 before i knew about the locked bootloader, so now im selling to buy a g600f
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not a bad idea really...
Sad to think that we may never truly own our devices here....g

Signed.. Where's a good place to sell a S5 att
Sent from my SM-G900A using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2

Signed

LG G3 just got hacked Oct 11th. Hopefully the same hacker will focus on KLTEATT

cstayton said:
I'm merely going to point this out, Complaining to ATT for a tool to unlock the bootloader is the wrong place to complain, it is HTC that provides the way to unlock the BL you would need to post that complaint on the Samsung webpage or facebook page
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AT&T won't provide a tool for the unlocking but I'm quite confident they are the ones that asked for it as other network providers offer unlocked phones. I believe the S5 from T-Mobile is unlocked and the international is unlocked. A complaint to Samsung might push them to play hardball with AT&T like HTC and I believe Motorola have so really complaining to both is the best route. I hold out little hope for a change in stance but maybe the pummeling by Apple will help change minds.