Database Develop

Right or Wrong?

OK, I have seen lots of threads about people returning or replacing rooted phones, and getting literally RAGED at by this community, so I am personally wondering, what is seen as wrong as right? I am not trying to start a post war, I am just honestly wondering... here is what it seems to be from what I have read.
If Not Rooted
*warranty covers failure, but not drops/spills etc.
*Covers spills/drops only if you pay extra for insurance, and u replace through insurance.
IF ROOTED/MODDED in any way
*Normal WARRANTY VOID FROM EVERYTHING
*IF you have insurance, AND you go through INSURANCE for replacement and pay, then it is OK as you pay for the service.
Correct here or not?

If not rooted.. correct points..
If rooted.. point 1 is correct... point 2.. you would have to look at the insurance TnC
ddggttff3 said:
OK, I have seen lots of threads about people returning or replacing rooted phones, and getting literally RAGED at by this community, so I am personally wondering, what is seen as wrong as right? I am not trying to start a post war, I am just honestly wondering... here is what it seems to be from what I have read.
If Not Rooted
*warranty covers failure, but not drops/spills etc.
*Covers spills/drops only if you pay extra for insurance, and u replace through insurance.
IF ROOTED/MODDED in any way
*Normal WARRANTY VOID FROM EVERYTHING
*IF you have insurance, AND you go through INSURANCE for replacement and pay, then it is OK as you pay for the service.
Correct here or not?
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Click to collapse

I think this is an excellent thread and a much needed discussion.
If you root and flash anything to your phone at all, you have voided your warranty and should take responsibility for the consequences.
I have never had insurance, but my understanding of full coverage is that it has no restrictions. You are paying both a monthly premium plus a very high deductible for a replacement phone and you can throw it under a bus if you want to.
That seems perfectly reasonable to me...

Here's the deal, you should not expect your manufacturer or service provider to replace the phone you ****ed up by tinkering with it, this is what many people have done and it's called fraud, it's also a major reason why OEMs are starting to lock them down tight (along with people getting free tethering). If, however, you rooted and are having issues with the phones that are plain bugs with the stock software than you have every right to restore it and request a replacement. If you hack your phone up and screw up the boot process it is your fault and you need to take the hit. In most cases the phone can be recovered anyways, people are just too quick to assume it's "bricked" and don't know what they're doing.
If you pay extra for insurance then I suppose you have the right to use it but I still think it's not very moral, the insurance is supposed to cover accidental damage or loss, not failure due to hacking. It's kind of like when people drop their phones in toilets on purpose or they magically 'get lost' or 'stolen' so they can get a different phone.

Since these smart phones are just mini computers has anyone considered how computer manufacturers warranty their products?
If i give myself administrator access, or install a clean OS, or install linux, it doesn't void my warranty.
Now if something I did caused a hardware failure (ie overclocking the processor) than obviously the warranty FOR THAT PART is null and void. But not the warranty on the ram or hard drive.
I look at rooting and roming the same way. BUT I also know how to recover from my mistakes and will only do a restore/replacement through warranty channels if its hardware related.
If you mess around and dont know what you're doing, that's a different story.

ddggttff3 said:
OK, I have seen lots of threads about people returning or replacing rooted phones, and getting literally RAGED at by this community, so I am personally wondering, what is seen as wrong as right? I am not trying to start a post war, I am just honestly wondering... here is what it seems to be from what I have read.
If Not Rooted
*warranty covers failure, but not drops/spills etc.
*Covers spills/drops only if you pay extra for insurance, and u replace through insurance.
IF ROOTED/MODDED in any way
*Normal WARRANTY VOID FROM EVERYTHING
*IF you have insurance, AND you go through INSURANCE for replacement and pay, then it is OK as you pay for the service.
Correct here or not?
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Click to collapse
This seems spot on to me.

"If you root and flash anything to your phone at all, you have voided your warranty and should take responsibility for the consequences."
"Here's the deal, you should not expect your manufacturer or service provider to replace the phone you ****ed up by tinkering with it, this is what many people have done and it's called fraud, it's also a major reason why OEMs are starting to lock them down tight (along with people getting free tethering)."
Nothing I did injured the phone or software. To back up your apps and SETTINGs correctly, you need root. I bought the phone with a data connection issue and a rebooting issue, I didn't create them. If Moto and Verizon aren't going to push software to repair these issues, I have the right to do it with a leaked file. If they don't want the return phones, release the OS's without all the verifications.
I purchased a phone that workes as advertised per MY contract and I didn't receive that.
As for the tether issue, Verizon shouldn't have the right to control how you use data plan, especially if it's capped.
It wouldn't surprise me if alot of the haters are Verizon employees. They lurked everywhere on Crackberry when I was still using my BB and running hybrids.

Unless I run software that melts the inside of my phone how is it really voiding the warrnty? Seriously, any software problem we create could be easily fixed with the properly released software.
You give me a phone that works all the time and ill stop messing with it. Verizon doesn't care about incovincing you, why would I care if I cause them trouble by tampering with my phone and then exchanging it, when they can easily release the software so I can fix it myself?
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using XDA App

I'm not a lawyer so take this with a grain of salt but the "voided warranty" issue can be looked at in the framework of cars. I believe there is a law that says a warranty on one part of the car can't be considered void because of some other alteration. For example if you get an aftermarket exhaust and then a week later your transmission bites the dust the manufacturer can't say that the exhaust you put on caused a problem with the transmission so they therefore must honor the warranty on the transmission. So if you root your phone, put a new ROM on it, and then your display goes out then in theory, the law should say they still have to honor the warranty because the software change didn't cause the display to fail. Anything else is on you. So, if you are dissatisfied with any aspect of the performance of the stock phone which leads you flash something that you are equally dissatisfied with then legally you have given up your right to complain even if the same problem existed with the stock phone. Morally, I might argue that if the problem existed from the onset and it continued to exist after the flash then you only tried to mitigate the original problem so in certain circumstances you might be justified in returning. If you flash something that causes FCs, or some other new problem then that is squarely on you.
The insurance question isn't a question either morally or legally. I don't believe there are any insurance policies that take into account software tinkering so you shouldn't lean on the insurance for your mistakes. I don't think insurance for bad flashes could be offered as they'd suffer from adverse selection. Adverse selection is where the only people that want to buy insurance are the ones that will almost certainly use it. If the only people that want to buy insurance are the ones that will almost certainly use it then the premium would end up very high.
As far as the analogy to desktop/laptop warranties, I don't think that is a good analogy. With desktop PCs the OS lives on a hard drive and the BIOS is rarely if ever flashed. With phones, the OS lives on firmware so updates are all flashed which in some cases is a process that can't be undone without a JTAG (or similar). With a desktop computer, no matter how bad you screw up your system with viruses, malware, driver corruption, etc; you can just reformat your hard drive and start over.
just my $0.02

You are right on both counts. If your device is acting up mechanically or electrically then the warranty covers, provided it is not rooted when it comes into Verizon. That's the whole key right there. Just don't mention it was rooted. Here is why. The warranty says it has to be mechanical or electrical failures. Rooting (except for overclocking) wont cause that. It can mimic it, for instance the screen cutting out or power cycles. As long as its locked and stock when it comes into the returns warehouse your ok.
As for insurance. If its Asurion, which it probably is, they will replace it. Insurance covers loss, theft, and damage. Bricking it is no different than dropping it in the lake, or a glass of tea. It's not fraud. It's what you pay for.
Now for a short soap box. Don't just brick it and call Asurion. Try to fix it, it's usually fixable.
Now for the Verizon Employee hater. Get bent. Those employees are here on their own time doing things with their equipment. Im sick of people making them out as the bad guys. They work their ass off day in and day out. Its a job. For those that say that employee should be ashamed of working for the company, get real. Its a service. The employees need a job and most try very hard to balance the policies and customer satisfaction. I don't see you quitting your job because people *****. You take it with a grain of salt, help how you can, and move on. The people that complain constantly are a very small minority that are no better than trolls. Complain when you have need to. Like the bs $2.00 convenience fee. Thanks to customer complaints it was cancelled.
I'll take my soap box and go now. Just keep in mind, working for a company, doesn't make one bad.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

I blame Motorola for letting us soak test for them. So if people want to return the devices that arr rooted then go for it. Motor reflashes everything anyhow
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

I'm surprised that the manufacturers don't just put put up a site for each phone. You go, read what keys get you in recovery, Fast Boot, etc., plug your phone in via USB and flash a new image. The best devs here never (super rare) truly "Brick" their phones. I'm sure moto could give us that technology, I don't see why they don't...I bet they would have a lot less refurbs required.
Can somebody 'splain it to me?

junksecret said:
I'm surprised that the manufacturers don't just put put up a site for each phone. You go, read what keys get you in recovery, Fast Boot, etc., plug your phone in via USB and flash a new image. The best devs here never (super rare) truly "Brick" their phones. I'm sure moto could give us that technology, I don't see why they don't...I bet they would have a lot less refurbs required.
Can somebody 'splain it to me?
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I agree. If you have the where-with-all to hose your phone by modding, you likely have the ability to fix it with the right tools being provided. Those that hack will hack. Those that don't won't. By providing the tools to restore it does not open the door to more folks hacking their phones and likely will reduce the number of units going back, IMHO.
Also -- I see no reason why a software hack should void a HARDWARE warranty. Sure -- support should no longer be provided for "soft" issues, but if there is a HARDWARE issue, i.e. battery won't hold a charge or display goes out, etc., a ROOT or ROM should not be reason for denying the required warranty service. Again -- IMHO.

I think if you hard brick your phone you should eat it. Your fault.
I've had 3 phones with locked bootloaders (and fixed others) and I've always recovered from a brick.
If you brick your phone because you tried to flash something or RSD with a low battery - your fault.
Verizon sent me a Razr over my Bionic due to me complaining about my data issues. I restored it (system/kernel) and sent it back. Phone is in flawless condition. I compare it to jaywalking or pirating a song/movie. Moral decision.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Why should verizon/moto unlock our bootloaders?

It appears that there is a guy who is interning at Motorola that wants to get ahold of some bigwigs and help voice our frustration. Here is a link if you have any ideas, please share them!
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/xty65/i_am_interning_at_a_major_fortune_500_company_who/

Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands

DoubleYouPee said:
Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands
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Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.

jesusishere said:
Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.
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Why would they need to have a locked bootloader to have that contract?

VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol

Here is the reason boot loaders are locked...
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.

vbhokiefan said:
VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol
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Well nowadays all data plans are being metered anyways. If I buy 2GB per month why does Verizon care if its used on my laptop instead of my phone for example. There was a recent FCC lawsuit against Verizon for separate tethering charges because it went against some agreement they had when they bought the 4G spectrum.
ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
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Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.

spunker88 said:
Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.
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From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)

doogald said:
From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)
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+1

ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.
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I don't really like this argument though, because most of those bricks are CAUSED by the locked bootloaders and other "security" put into place. These phones are just computers with radios inside. I've never bricked my (desktop or laptop) computer, and neither have most people, because computers have been designed such that the process that brings the computer up (the BIOS) is simple, reliable, and will load anything you tell it to, negating the need to mess with it.
The OG Droid was borderline software unbrickable, because you could leave the stock bootloader in place, and the stock bootloader was able to get you back home (SBF) by itself. If all phones were built like this today, and manufacturer's had a utility to restore the phone back to stock available on their website, the people returning devices due to softbricking would probably go way down, because a softbrick would be no big deal.

AT&T Unlock Bootloader petitions

Petitions to unlock bootloader on the AT&T Samsung Galaxy s5​
I'd like to have control over my phone because I paid a lot of money for it. I'd like to install a cleaner/faster ROM without all of the bloatware that comes stock. Android is an OPEN SOURCE mobile operating system, we should not be locked down from improving the quality of our smartphones. I have found some petitions that put effort into making it possible to give us our right to have our bootloaders unlocked.
Advantages of an unlocked bootloader:
# Developers will make a wide selection of custom ROMS and Kernels that will improve the speed of the phone, these can't be installed until our bootloader is unlocked.
# Rooting the phone will become a lot easier.
# With root access we can overclock our CPU to make the phone faster.
Disadvantage to an unlocked bootloader:
# IF you don't follow instructions to flashing correctly you can permanently brick your device. This is not a problem if you know what you're doing and/or follow directions very carefully.
LINKS
#1 change.org petition for Samsung AND Verizon
#2 Change.org petition for all androidsmarphones/tablets/etc
If anybody knows of anymore let us know in the comments!!
DISCLAIMER NOTES
## NEVER FLASH A ROM ON YOUR PHONE IF IT IS NOT MADE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC MODEL UNLESS THE DEVELOPER SAYS IT IS OKAY.
## i AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGES YOU MAY CAUSE TO YOUR PHONE, OR ANYTHING ELSE.
You may discuss this in further detail in this thread. However, arguing, trolling, slandering, bickering, and anything else that will clutter this thread and overwork the moderators WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. This thread is not the thread to argue with others over the details since the idea is already in marketing. If you wish to argue or troll, please take it somewhere else. And, as always, please follow the forum rules. Thank you for looking at this thread.
For those who are concerned with the warranty, please read this. Huge thanks to @shootind5nukes for this info.
Just so everyone knows the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act prevents someone from totally VOIDING a warranty. Verizon/Samsung could only deny to warranty something if they can prove something you did cause the issue. Anything that has nothing to do with what you did still has to be under warranty. If you LCD started to lose color or get dead pixels that would still have to be covered because that has nothing to do with bootloaders and flashing ROMS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuso...s_Warranty_Act
"The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance."
I learned about this when I was going to get my truck lifted. I was told if I did it would VOID my truck's warranty. After looking into it further it didn't actually VOID anything. But for example if I went in to get my suspension fixed because it broke they could argue that the lift kit put stress on the suspension and that's why it failed so they would not have to cover it. But if my motor exploded because it was made out of cheese it would still be under warranty, the entire warranty can never be voided. Only damage caused by what you did. Food for thought guys.
If anyone has anything to add please do.
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I'd like my posts to be very clear and grammatically correct. If I could have worded anything better or made any mistakes, please let me know so I can correct it.

Don't hold your breath.

Good luck. I did the same thing. And nothing. Golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. Att has the gold in this case.

GDofWR420 said:
Good luck. I did the same thing. And nothing. Golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. Att has the gold in this case.
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You're probably right, but just putting in an effort here. I'm hoping that the FCC finds this similar to carrier locking, they changed the laws for carrier locking because of petitions: http://www.fcc.gov/device-unlocking-faq

i actually just today put a complain on at&t's facebook page about use wanting a bootloader unlocking tool like with htc phones. i have heard no reply yet.

i root SGH i777 said:
i actually just today put a complain on at&t's facebook page about use wanting a bootloader unlocking tool like with htc phones. i have heard no reply yet.
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I wouldn't expect one. I've complained on their page multiple times and the only thing that came of it was getting blocked.

There's not enough demand for anyone to put any effort into freeing our bootloader. These petitions have been up for months and haven't reached the minimum requirements. Just get used to TW ROMs or don't support either AT&T or Samsung with the next phone you get and go the Stock Android path.

UnhoIy said:
There's not enough demand for anyone to put any effort into freeing our bootloader. These petitions have been up for months and haven't reached the minimum requirements. Just get used to TW ROMs or don't support either AT&T or Samsung with the next phone you get and go the Stock Android path.
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Much agreed. I see a nexus device in my future

Just signed it. If they don't, it'll be hacked anyway.

I signed it. My signature by itself means nothing. My signature along with many others may help.

i root SGH i777 said:
i actually just today put a complain on at&t's facebook page about use wanting a bootloader unlocking tool like with htc phones. i have heard no reply yet.
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Click to collapse
I'm merely going to point this out, Complaining to ATT for a tool to unlock the bootloader is the wrong place to complain, it is HTC that provides the way to unlock the BL you would need to post that complaint on the Samsung webpage or facebook page

signed

Two more votes required!

signed both

i bought my s5 before i knew about the locked bootloader, so now im selling to buy a g600f

Isriam said:
i bought my s5 before i knew about the locked bootloader, so now im selling to buy a g600f
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Not a bad idea really...
Sad to think that we may never truly own our devices here....g

Signed.. Where's a good place to sell a S5 att
Sent from my SM-G900A using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2

Signed

LG G3 just got hacked Oct 11th. Hopefully the same hacker will focus on KLTEATT

cstayton said:
I'm merely going to point this out, Complaining to ATT for a tool to unlock the bootloader is the wrong place to complain, it is HTC that provides the way to unlock the BL you would need to post that complaint on the Samsung webpage or facebook page
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AT&T won't provide a tool for the unlocking but I'm quite confident they are the ones that asked for it as other network providers offer unlocked phones. I believe the S5 from T-Mobile is unlocked and the international is unlocked. A complaint to Samsung might push them to play hardball with AT&T like HTC and I believe Motorola have so really complaining to both is the best route. I hold out little hope for a change in stance but maybe the pummeling by Apple will help change minds.

Questions about bootloader relock

So here's my situation, I have an at&t nexus 6 for as long as the phone is sold on at&t. I actually work for at&t and it's my company phone and I'm never going to switch out. But eventually when the phone goes end of life, I'll have to give it back. So if I unlock the bootloader and root, I will have to give it back to them and they will see that one of their employees voided the warranty, because I don't think I can relock the bootloader without some kind of message letting the entire world know that it was unlocked at some point. I'm also worried that the unlock/relock will have some sort of timestamp so they will be able to see when I do it. I tried searching for the answer to my ultimate question but found nothing, so I ask you fine people: is there a way to relock the bootloader while somehow hiding the fact that I tampered with it?
Thanks everyone! I'd really love to greenify and grab a battery friendly kernel when one is available, battery life has been a little subpar to this point, imo.

Accidental double post, disregard

On nexus, there's usually not a flag tripped if you unlock the bootloader. I'm not sure if Motorola did it for AT&T or not, but I doubt it. Just flash factory images, and fastboot oem lock and you should be good to go. Unlocking the bootloader doesn't automatically void the warranty on Nexus devices.
Sent from my Nexus 6

Also make sure you put the death Star splash screen back when flashing the factory images.

When you unlock usually it sets tamper flag to let warranty departments know the bootloader has been unlocked in the past. This app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.segv11.bootunlocker&hl=en allowed Nexus users to relock and reset the tamper flag in the past but I'm not sure if it works or has been updated for the new devices yet.

AndrasLOHF said:
When you unlock usually it sets tamper flag to let warranty departments know the bootloader has been unlocked in the past. This app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.segv11.bootunlocker&hl=en allowed Nexus users to relock and reset the tamper flag in the past but I'm not sure if it works or has been updated for the new devices yet.
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Thanks for this, I'll email the developer and see if I can find out more about it [emoji106]

So in case anyone else ever needs to research this topic I figured I'd update, I emailed the developer of bootunlocker and haven't received anything back yet. It's only been a day so I'm still hopeful, but I also haven't seen a single ago review from anyone using the nexus 6. Since this is my company phone I am afraid to test but if I come across anything I will add it here.

Here's my opinion:
I really really doubt that your employer is going to be check (or care) whether the tamper flag was tripped or not. They will likely check for physical damage, custom ROM, encryption status and your bootloader status. Unless you pissed off your IT person and he just wants to find some problem and decides to check anything more, it is unlikely they will bother. And even if they did, plead ignorance (play dumb).
I (in all likelihood) do not work for your employer, so please use your better judgement.

jj14 said:
Here's my opinion:
I really really doubt that your employer is going to be check (or care) whether the tamper flag was tripped or not. They will likely check for physical damage, custom ROM, encryption status and your bootloader status. Unless you pissed off your IT person and he just wants to find some problem and decides to check anything more, it is unlikely they will bother. And even if they did, plead ignorance (play dumb).
I (in all likelihood) do not work for your employer, so please use your better judgement.
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Well I'm a sales consultant in a store. As far as I know when they send them back it's the same process as warranty. You send it back, they check for damage, they flash stock firmware, and refurb it for use as a warranty exchange, as you stated. However, if I'm wrong I could potentially lose my job for tampering with company property. That's why I haven't done it yet and it's why I probably won't. I need a 100% guarantee that there will be no evidence of tampering and there's no such thing in this world. This could still have good info if someone needs to research the topic of bootloader relock but I think until a few more services get art support anyway I really don't need unlock/root that badly. I just need to keep my turbocharger handy for now.

pokedroid said:
Well I'm a sales consultant in a store. As far as I know when they send them back it's the same process as warranty. You send it back, they check for damage, they flash stock firmware, and refurb it for use as a warranty exchange, as you stated. However, if I'm wrong I could potentially lose my job for tampering with company property. That's why I haven't done it yet and it's why I probably won't. I need a 100% guarantee that there will be no evidence of tampering and there's no such thing in this world. This could still have good info if someone needs to research the topic of bootloader relock but I think until a few more services get art support anyway I really don't need unlock/root that badly. I just need to keep my turbocharger handy for now.
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Any phone sent back is checked by a tech for if it has damage, water damage, and the number matches so they can mark the account as having it returned, if it boots, they are going to immediately flash it to stock and then verify it works, and move on to the next phone .... Really.
It's just above the conversation of a person with a unlocked rooted phone who has actually bricked it (not thought so in 99% of cases here in which members have resurrected it), if it was turned in bricked, they verify it doesn't even boot at all, and it gets scrapped for parts for other refurbs to get assembled, busted screens, etc. and then they move on to another phone return.
I know this because I've worked with people who used to do it for Asurion ... I wouldn't worry about it.

pokedroid said:
Well I'm a sales consultant in a store. As far as I know when they send them back it's the same process as warranty. You send it back, they check for damage, they flash stock firmware, and refurb it for use as a warranty exchange, as you stated. However, if I'm wrong I could potentially lose my job for tampering with company property. That's why I haven't done it yet and it's why I probably won't. I need a 100% guarantee that there will be no evidence of tampering and there's no such thing in this world. This could still have good info if someone needs to research the topic of bootloader relock but I think until a few more services get art support anyway I really don't need unlock/root that badly. I just need to keep my turbocharger handy for now.
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While there shouldn't be a problem, there are a lot of 'what ifs' to consider. What if you end up with a broken screen or major water damage where your phone doesn't even turn on? If the IT team is able to change the screen/battery, they will see the unlocked bootloader - etc. Anyway, given your concern, I agree - play it safe.
Personally, the main reason I root are for Xprivacy (not possible at the moment because XPosed/ART issues), and for adaway. (For example: XDA forums using chrome are very very cluttered with ads and I find it almost unusable. Yes, I could use tapatalk or similar apps, but the ads are on almost all sites. I find adaway to be a must have.

jj14 said:
While there shouldn't be a problem, there are a lot of 'what ifs' to consider. What if you end up with a broken screen or major water damage where your phone doesn't even turn on? If the IT team is able to change the screen/battery, they will see the unlocked bootloader - etc. Anyway, given your concern, I agree - play it safe.
Personally, the main reason I root are for Xprivacy (not possible at the moment because XPosed/ART issues), and for adaway. (For example: XDA forums using chrome are very very cluttered with ads and I find it almost unusable. Yes, I could use tapatalk or similar apps, but the ads are on almost all sites. I find adaway to be a must have.
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I agree. Same here the main reason I root is for greenify (that one makes sense) and xposed (if your devices' screen is over 4.7" check out a module called "flying android", its a game changer!! True one-handed operation). I think if/when xposed gets art support I'll just go buy my own. I'm in love with the nexus 6 and my only complaint is the front facing camera quality, but unless my wife is around I don't touch that camera anyway haha

is there a fast boot command that allows you to check the tamper status like the nexus 5 'fastboot oem device-info' ?

pokedroid said:
Well I'm a sales consultant in a store. As far as I know when they send them back it's the same process as warranty. You send it back, they check for damage, they flash stock firmware, and refurb it for use as a warranty exchange, as you stated. However, if I'm wrong I could potentially lose my job for tampering with company property. That's why I haven't done it yet and it's why I probably won't. I need a 100% guarantee that there will be no evidence of tampering and there's no such thing in this world. This could still have good info if someone needs to research the topic of bootloader relock but I think until a few more services get art support anyway I really don't need unlock/root that badly. I just need to keep my turbocharger handy for now.
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It is a VERY long stretch to assume that you'll get in any kind of trouble for using the device ***AS INTENDED***. Bootloader unlock, ESPECIALLY on a Nexus device, DOES NOT VOID THE WARRANTY!!! (even if they warn you that it *might* -- that warning is really there just to tell you that you are losing SOFTWARE SUPPORT). I.e., if you eff up the system image so it won't boot, then you send it back for warranty, they will tell you that you effed it up yourself and send you a repair bill. THAT IS ALL IT IS FOR.
Even the device INSTRUCTIONS tell you how to unlock it!
https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images
Nobody can possibly claim that this is anything besides INTENDED USE, because the instructions explain how to do it!

doitright said:
It is a VERY long stretch to assume that you'll get in any kind of trouble for using the device ***AS INTENDED***. Bootloader unlock, ESPECIALLY on a Nexus device, DOES NOT VOID THE WARRANTY!!! (even if they warn you that it *might* -- that warning is really there just to tell you that you are losing SOFTWARE SUPPORT). I.e., if you eff up the system image so it won't boot, then you send it back for warranty, they will tell you that you effed it up yourself and send you a repair bill. THAT IS ALL IT IS FOR.
Even the device INSTRUCTIONS tell you how to unlock it!
https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images
Nobody can possibly claim that this is anything besides INTENDED USE, because the instructions explain how to do it!
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Its true that Google play purchased devices will not be voided by unlocking, but pretty much any other carrier or retailer will void your warranty. This was true on the nexus 5 too. Play devices fine, but anything going back to LG would be voided if unlocked. There's no reason to assume its different on the 6.
I specifically bought from Play this time to prevent this being an issue for me.

but does locking the bootloader hide any signs of tampering, at least that Motorola would look for...........?
what is status code 2, someone must know....?

just bumping this up.............
any experts out there know how to check the nexus 6 for tamper flags?
do you know what the bootloader: locked status code: 2 means....
looking for reassurance..............

mediaman123 said:
just bumping this up.............
any experts out there know how to check the nexus 6 for tamper flags?
do you know what the bootloader: locked status code: 2 means....
looking for reassurance..............
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Please don't bump threads within 24 hours. Its against the rules.
I see you're asking similar questions all over the place. I'm going to answer what I hope is all of your questions in 1 post.
How can you check the Tamper flag? We do not know. There seems to be no fastboot command to check it.
What is status 2?: We don't know. We assume it means "locked" but we can't be sure. Unlocked seems to be status 3.
What is the most I can do to ensure warranty? Relock your bootloader.
Is this enough to get warranty? If you bought from Google directly, it doesnt matter if it is locked or not. Anywhere else, we dont know.

Thanks for the reassurance......

rootSU said:
Its true that Google play purchased devices will not be voided by unlocking, but pretty much any other carrier or retailer will void your warranty. This was true on the nexus 5 too. Play devices fine, but anything going back to LG would be voided if unlocked. There's no reason to assume its different on the 6.
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Absolutely (a) nonsense, (b) illegal of them.
Those LG "service reps" (aka India), are trained to try to avoid paying out warranty claims. Hence manufacturing details that are in direct violation of the laws where the devices are sold, and even the INTENTION of the manufacturer. Some people (you) just need to try a little harder to escalate matters before giving in to that kind of tactic.

Should I return it?

Greets!
I lept before I looked and bought a G4 to replace my iPhone 6 and after some research, LG has a stick up their arse and is claiming they will never support unlocking the bootloader on the H811:
"Unfortunately, we have no plan to support bootloader unlock in previously launched models including H811 (T-Mobile) and H815 USA version."
http://goo.gl/ZpnLW5
**EDIT** I authored the post after a string of very unsatisfactory events with T-Mobile regarding the purchase. See my reddit post here. Please consider this before you make a return/exchange decision.
I WAS going to get a Nexus 6 to skip the noise (as a long time Nexus 4 user previously) but.. but.. the G4 seems so much sexier in a way.
I'm not the biggest fan of iOS myself however, I've learned to live with it after working at Applecare for some years.. At least there is a 8.4 jailbreak.
Thankfully, I have a perfect excuse to return the G4 without a restocking fee (their cash register locked up and they couldn't provide a receipt NOR could phone support OR EVEN retail support), I'll simply state that without a receipt - I could not participate in the G4 promotion for free batteries, SD card, etc. (Watch next they won't be able to process a return at all or something, my luck).
Regardless of reason, It'll be a huge regret to hang on to the G4 if I have to put up with T-Mo's Bloatware long term - rootability was the only reason I switched back from the dark side. No one can see the future - but dear XDA fellows, is there any hope for a workaround without LG's grace to unlock the bootloader or should I simply return it and keep using my perfectly working iPhone for now?

rockerrock said:
Greets!
I lept before I looked and bought a G4 to replace my iPhone 6 and after some research, LG has a stick up their arse and is claiming they will never support unlocking the bootloader on the H811:
"Unfortunately, we have no plan to support bootloader unlock in previously launched models including H811 (T-Mobile) and H815 USA version."
http://goo.gl/ZpnLW5
I WAS going to get a Nexus 6 to skip the noise (as a long time Nexus 4 user previously) but.. but.. the G4 seems so much sexier in a way.
I'm not the biggest fan of iOS myself however, I've learned to live with it after working at Applecare for some years.. At least there is a 8.4 jailbreak.
Thankfully, I have a perfect excuse to return the G4 without a restocking fee (their cash register locked up and they couldn't provide a receipt NOR could phone support OR EVEN retail support), I'll simply state that without a receipt - I could not participate in the G4 promotion for free batteries, SD card, etc. (Watch next they won't be able to process a return at all or something, my luck).
Regardless of reason, It'll be a huge regret to hang on to the G4 if I have to put up with T-Mo's Bloatware long term - rootability was the only reason I switched back from the dark side. No one can see the future - but dear XDA fellows, is there any hope for a workaround without LG's grace to unlock the bootloader or should I simply return it and keep using my perfectly working iPhone for now?
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Just got mine today and will be very disappointed if there is no way to unlock bootloader. I took for granted that it would be able to be done. May return now....

Really considering returning for this issue as well. I jumped from the S6, and may jump back. Still undecided.

Just because LG does not officially support an unlocked bootloader does not mean anything. Of all the devices that have bootloaders that are unlocked on this site, do you know how many of them came right from the device manufacturer?
I mean, you can do what you want as it is your device and your life, but ALL of our devs ALREADY have Root Access (just working on a safe method before it is released to the rest of the G4 community) and I am pretty sure bootloader will follow pretty close behind that, and even if not with just Root Access you can still do SO many great things that at that point the locked bootloader kind of ceases to be a big deal anyway.
......But again, do what you want and all that.

Z3ldaFan88 said:
Just because LG does not officially support an unlocked bootloader does not mean anything. Of all the devices that have bootloaders that are unlocked on this site, do you know how many of them came right from the device manufacturer?
I mean, you can do what you want as it is your device and your life, but ALL of our devs ALREADY have Root Access (just working on a safe method before it is released to the rest of the G4 community) and I am pretty sure bootloader will follow pretty close behind that, and even if not with just Root Access you can still do SO many great things that at that point the locked bootloader kind of ceases to be a big deal anyway.
......But again, do what you want and all that.
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This.
You have assuaged my concerns........for now

I appreciate the reassurance. I authored the post after a string of very unsatisfactory events with T-Mobile regarding the purchase. See my reddit post here. EDIT, what the heck - the subreddit went private literally the second after posting the link.
Basically put, the POS crashed after swiping my card and they just can't furnish a receipt. Not the store, not customer service, not retail support and I stood around with $400+ missing from my bank account while they debated if they'd let me leave the store with the phone. Well that and I now miss out on absolutely every promo deal offered.. Of course, they absolutely refuse to waive the restocking fee (but I did get an account credit).
I apologize if anyway my post was perceived as a whiny, spoiled brat - complaining at a lack of root/bootloader. The story went much deeper than that and I didn't take a moment to calm myself before posting (or explain myself fully at that).
All in all, I just gave up and stopped caring and will keep the G4. The iPhone is on eBay - good riddance and I'll spend this time getting used to Android again after working at the Jobs Mob for the last 3 years.

I'm going to get the nexus 6... S6 is to small for me.... This phone will take months to see an unlock bootloader and than months to see aosp.... G3 was different cause it came unlocked

I will say that it always amazes me how people expect unlock and root and AOSP to be out within a few days of a device release. Seriously...these devices are much more difficult to root and unlock than those from a year or two or three ago. Processor tech as well as addition of selinux has made this both more tricky and time consuming to develop. On top of that, they have SOO many more added hardware sensors and gadgets that AOSP takes more time to debug to get a proper build out.
Root/Unlock is in the works...as is AOSP....I know of one AOSP based dev working on the device tree now.
Personally, I think it is always a mistake to buy something if you don't at least love it as it comes out of the box.
*Edit: Regarding OP's issues with the sales process, that just sucks bro. I'd be royally P***ed at that.

rockerrock said:
I appreciate the reassurance. I authored the post after a string of very unsatisfactory events with T-Mobile regarding the purchase. See my reddit post here. EDIT, what the heck - the subreddit went private literally the second after posting the link.
Basically put, the POS crashed after swiping my card and they just can't furnish a receipt. Not the store, not customer service, not retail support and I stood around with $400+ missing from my bank account while they debated if they'd let me leave the store with the phone. Well that and I now miss out on absolutely every promo deal offered.. Of course, they absolutely refuse to waive the restocking fee (but I did get an account credit).
I apologize if anyway my post was perceived as a whiny, spoiled brat - complaining at a lack of root/bootloader. The story went much deeper than that and I didn't take a moment to calm myself before posting (or explain myself fully at that).
All in all, I just gave up and stopped caring and will keep the G4. The iPhone is on eBay - good riddance and I'll spend this time getting used to Android again after working at the Jobs Mob for the last 3 years.
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Click to collapse
No worries buddy. I completely understand your frustration based on the entirety of your situation and I do not fault you for being upset/aggravated in the least.
I also did not take your post as you being "whiny" or anything of the sort either, Your concerns are essentially the same ones all of us had the first couple of days (or at least a lot of us did, myself included). I just happened to have already put in enough time with the G4 to be able to know that it is still a rock solid device even in its stock form.....and since we are all but guaranteed to have a public Root method at this point, one day it is just going to end up being that much better.
So rest assured you made a great decision by keeping the G4 (especially over an iPhone) and it will not disappoint.
.......If you have any other questions or concerns about our device I am only a couple clicks away and would be more than happy to answer any questions that I can for ya......Now stop reading this and go play with that damn phone, lol.

Th3Bill said:
I will say that it always amazes me how people expect unlock and root and AOSP to be out within a few days of a device release. Seriously...these devices are much more difficult to root and unlock than those from a year or two or three ago. Processor tech as well as addition of selinux has made this both more tricky and time consuming to develop. On top of that, they have SOO many more added hardware sensors and gadgets that AOSP takes more time to debug to get a proper build out.
Root/Unlock is in the works...as is AOSP....I know of one AOSP based dev working on the device tree now.
Personally, I think it is always a mistake to buy something if you don't at least love it as it comes out of the box.
*Edit: Regarding OP's issues with the sales process, that just sucks bro. I'd be royally P***ed at that.
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Phones by this time should have already developers tweeting about the root of the g4.... Not one of them has announced that they are working on a root or unlock method.....

Upstreammiami said:
Phones by this time should have already developers tweeting about the root of the g4.... Not one of them has announced that they are working on a root or unlock method.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haven't done much searching, have you? jcase has posted MANY times on xda about it and has released a number of videos on youtube proving he has his phones rooted. autoprime has as well. Then, 2 days ago, thecubed announced they're working on it and are making progress.
Funny how you feel there should be a "timeframe" where thing should/must be done on a phone. Nothing like having some patience.
So, let me ask you this...would you rather they work on it and make a proper, safe release of unlock and root, or hurry it and potentially leave you with a brick?

Th3Bill said:
Haven't done much searching, have you? jcase has posted MANY times on xda about it and has released a number of videos on youtube proving he has his phones rooted. autoprime has as well. Then, 2 days ago, thecubed announced they're working on it and are making progress.
Funny how you feel there should be a "timeframe" where thing should/must be done on a phone. Nothing like having some patience.
So, let me ask you this...would you rather they work on it and make a proper, safe release of unlock and root, or hurry it and potentially leave you with a brick?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing like wanting someone to do you a favor and trying to tell them they are not doing it fast enough, eh.
.....I understand people be excited (as I am sure this guy is/was) but NEVER should you put the safety of your device (or EVERYONE on XDA for that matter) as a second class priority just because you want your Root Access now.
Also unless you are posted up in the Root Bounty thread (and actually pay out) then you really have no right to complain about anything as you are just basically trying to ride someone else's coat-tails and benefit from other people putting their devices and hard earned money up to show their respect and appreciation to our devs.

Also unless you are posted up in the Root Bounty thread (and actually pay out) then you really have no right to complain about anything as you are just basically trying to ride someone else's coat-tails and benefit from other people putting their devices and hard earned money up to show their respect and appreciation to our devs.
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Count me in for $20 via PayPal. I'll post on the bounty thread soon as I have the money available
Now that I have actually used the G4 for awhile, I'm satisfied with it. The most apparent annoyance so far is some noticeable lag when carrying out tasks/app switching. I'm happy my generic OBD scanner pairs just fine (dtto on iOS) and I'm back to using aCar and other apps I've been missing.

rockerrock said:
I appreciate the reassurance. I authored the post after a string of very unsatisfactory events with T-Mobile regarding the purchase. See my reddit post here. EDIT, what the heck - the subreddit went private literally the second after posting the link.
Basically put, the POS crashed after swiping my card and they just can't furnish a receipt. Not the store, not customer service, not retail support and I stood around with $400+ missing from my bank account while they debated if they'd let me leave the store with the phone. Well that and I now miss out on absolutely every promo deal offered.. Of course, they absolutely refuse to waive the restocking fee (but I did get an account credit).
I apologize if anyway my post was perceived as a whiny, spoiled brat - complaining at a lack of root/bootloader. The story went much deeper than that and I didn't take a moment to calm myself before posting (or explain myself fully at that).
All in all, I just gave up and stopped caring and will keep the G4. The iPhone is on eBay - good riddance and I'll spend this time getting used to Android again after working at the Jobs Mob for the last 3 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if you called your card company and disputed the charge, if a receipt would magically appear?

Patience young turd burglar. G3 seemed to be hopeless until the TWRP exploit was found. Next time do some research before purchasing if you want instant gratification (oooohhhh myy). Otherwise be patient for the other developers to releases a safe method

Its kinda weird hearing about all these situations where the store computer locked up and cant give receipts. Funny cus when i went to get my nexus 6 for 0 down, the rep said "oh darn, i closed the transaction window and i cant print a receipt now, sorry" hmmm. I smell a whole sea of fish here....