Database Develop

Why should verizon/moto unlock our bootloaders?

It appears that there is a guy who is interning at Motorola that wants to get ahold of some bigwigs and help voice our frustration. Here is a link if you have any ideas, please share them!
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/xty65/i_am_interning_at_a_major_fortune_500_company_who/

Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands

DoubleYouPee said:
Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands
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Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.

jesusishere said:
Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.
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Why would they need to have a locked bootloader to have that contract?

VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol

Here is the reason boot loaders are locked...
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.

vbhokiefan said:
VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol
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Well nowadays all data plans are being metered anyways. If I buy 2GB per month why does Verizon care if its used on my laptop instead of my phone for example. There was a recent FCC lawsuit against Verizon for separate tethering charges because it went against some agreement they had when they bought the 4G spectrum.
ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
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Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.

spunker88 said:
Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.
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From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)

doogald said:
From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)
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+1

ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.
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I don't really like this argument though, because most of those bricks are CAUSED by the locked bootloaders and other "security" put into place. These phones are just computers with radios inside. I've never bricked my (desktop or laptop) computer, and neither have most people, because computers have been designed such that the process that brings the computer up (the BIOS) is simple, reliable, and will load anything you tell it to, negating the need to mess with it.
The OG Droid was borderline software unbrickable, because you could leave the stock bootloader in place, and the stock bootloader was able to get you back home (SBF) by itself. If all phones were built like this today, and manufacturer's had a utility to restore the phone back to stock available on their website, the people returning devices due to softbricking would probably go way down, because a softbrick would be no big deal.

I can only imagine how long this bootloader is going to take to be cracked.

I wonder how long it will take XDA's best minds to unlock this bootloader. Seems like Samsung phones are getting harder and harder to exploit.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

willblake13 said:
I wonder how long it will take XDA's best minds to unlock this bootloader. Seems like Samsung phones are getting harder and harder to exploit.
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This isn't entirely true. Samsung phones have mostly had unlocked bootloaders unless you get a carrier version. They are still relatively easy to root and play around with. The only thing they are doing is adding security through Knox and that makes it difficult or even impossible to avoid flagging that the system has been tampered with. It doesn't stop playing with the bootloader or system, it just tells them that you have done something and that in turn voids warranty in many cases.
Most HTC, Sony and LG phones have locked bootloaders but the companies provide tools and instructions to unlock them. Only carrier-locked bootloaders are notoriously difficult to unlock.
I think you are mixing up the ability to unlock or play with the system with security features that flag and tell the company that you have messed with the phone. They are two different things.
It is becoming more and more difficult to return to a state that shows no evidence of tampering so warranty concerns are becoming more widespread. It doesn't mean that we can't play with our phones. It just means that after doing so the phone is our responsibility - sometimes even if there is a defect that isn't our fault.

akselic said:
This isn't entirely true. Samsung phones have mostly had unlocked bootloaders unless you get a carrier version. They are still relatively easy to root and play around with. The only thing they are doing is adding security through Knox and that makes it difficult or even impossible to avoid flagging that the system has been tampered with. It doesn't stop playing with the bootloader or system, it just tells them that you have done something and that in turn voids warranty in many cases.
Most HTC, Sony and LG phones have locked bootloaders but the companies provide tools and instructions to unlock them. Only carrier-locked bootloaders are notoriously difficult to unlock.
I think you are mixing up the ability to unlock or play with the system with security features that flag and tell the company that you have messed with the phone. They are two different things.
It is becoming more and more difficult to return to a state that shows no evidence of tampering so warranty concerns are becoming more widespread. It doesn't mean that we can't play with our phones. It just means that after doing so the phone is our responsibility - sometimes even if there is a defect that isn't our fault.
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His post was it will probably take a long time to unlock the bootloader, not sure what your LONG response has to do with that but anyway.
Yes, OP you are correct. Heck even the Note 3 for VZW is pretty limited ROM wise even after being out for months now. The good news these days that at least it is running a current build (4.4) so atleast we aren't behind in that regard. Problem is if we want to run CM we need there kernel to make it fly. Hopefully someone will break this thing soon!

jmill75 said:
His post was it will probably take a long time to unlock the bootloader, not sure what your LONG response has to do with that but anyway.
Yes, OP you are correct. Heck even the Note 3 for VZW is pretty limited ROM wise even after being out for months now. The good news these days that at least it is running a current build (4.4) so atleast we aren't behind in that regard. Problem is if we want to run CM we need there kernel to make it fly. Hopefully someone will break this thing soon!
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His post makes sense, there's a world outside the US.

dandroid13 said:
His post makes sense, there's a world outside the US.
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OP lives in Washington...soooooo thats the US buddy. Whats your point?

jmill75 said:
OP lives in Washington...soooooo thats the US buddy. Whats your point?
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My point is that post #2 makes sense. It isn't Samsung that makes things harder for you guys, it's the carriers.

dandroid13 said:
My point is that post #2 makes sense. It isn't Samsung that makes things harder for you guys, it's the carriers.
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:good::good::good:

dandroid13 said:
My point is that post #2 makes sense. It isn't Samsung that makes things harder for you guys, it's the carriers.
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Its a lot with the carriers but also Samsung has to have their phones secure also for govt official use hence Knox, plus region lock...
Sent from my XT1058 using xda premium

[email protected] said:
Its a lot with the carriers but also Samsung has to have their phones secure also for govt official use hence Knox, plus region lock...
Sent from my XT1058 using xda premium
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Knox =/= locked bootloader, region lock goes away with a 5 min call.

AT&T Unlock Bootloader petitions

Petitions to unlock bootloader on the AT&T Samsung Galaxy s5​
I'd like to have control over my phone because I paid a lot of money for it. I'd like to install a cleaner/faster ROM without all of the bloatware that comes stock. Android is an OPEN SOURCE mobile operating system, we should not be locked down from improving the quality of our smartphones. I have found some petitions that put effort into making it possible to give us our right to have our bootloaders unlocked.
Advantages of an unlocked bootloader:
# Developers will make a wide selection of custom ROMS and Kernels that will improve the speed of the phone, these can't be installed until our bootloader is unlocked.
# Rooting the phone will become a lot easier.
# With root access we can overclock our CPU to make the phone faster.
Disadvantage to an unlocked bootloader:
# IF you don't follow instructions to flashing correctly you can permanently brick your device. This is not a problem if you know what you're doing and/or follow directions very carefully.
LINKS
#1 change.org petition for Samsung AND Verizon
#2 Change.org petition for all androidsmarphones/tablets/etc
If anybody knows of anymore let us know in the comments!!
DISCLAIMER NOTES
## NEVER FLASH A ROM ON YOUR PHONE IF IT IS NOT MADE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC MODEL UNLESS THE DEVELOPER SAYS IT IS OKAY.
## i AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGES YOU MAY CAUSE TO YOUR PHONE, OR ANYTHING ELSE.
You may discuss this in further detail in this thread. However, arguing, trolling, slandering, bickering, and anything else that will clutter this thread and overwork the moderators WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. This thread is not the thread to argue with others over the details since the idea is already in marketing. If you wish to argue or troll, please take it somewhere else. And, as always, please follow the forum rules. Thank you for looking at this thread.
For those who are concerned with the warranty, please read this. Huge thanks to @shootind5nukes for this info.
Just so everyone knows the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act prevents someone from totally VOIDING a warranty. Verizon/Samsung could only deny to warranty something if they can prove something you did cause the issue. Anything that has nothing to do with what you did still has to be under warranty. If you LCD started to lose color or get dead pixels that would still have to be covered because that has nothing to do with bootloaders and flashing ROMS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuso...s_Warranty_Act
"The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance."
I learned about this when I was going to get my truck lifted. I was told if I did it would VOID my truck's warranty. After looking into it further it didn't actually VOID anything. But for example if I went in to get my suspension fixed because it broke they could argue that the lift kit put stress on the suspension and that's why it failed so they would not have to cover it. But if my motor exploded because it was made out of cheese it would still be under warranty, the entire warranty can never be voided. Only damage caused by what you did. Food for thought guys.
If anyone has anything to add please do.
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I'd like my posts to be very clear and grammatically correct. If I could have worded anything better or made any mistakes, please let me know so I can correct it.

Don't hold your breath.

Good luck. I did the same thing. And nothing. Golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. Att has the gold in this case.

GDofWR420 said:
Good luck. I did the same thing. And nothing. Golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. Att has the gold in this case.
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You're probably right, but just putting in an effort here. I'm hoping that the FCC finds this similar to carrier locking, they changed the laws for carrier locking because of petitions: http://www.fcc.gov/device-unlocking-faq

i actually just today put a complain on at&t's facebook page about use wanting a bootloader unlocking tool like with htc phones. i have heard no reply yet.

i root SGH i777 said:
i actually just today put a complain on at&t's facebook page about use wanting a bootloader unlocking tool like with htc phones. i have heard no reply yet.
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I wouldn't expect one. I've complained on their page multiple times and the only thing that came of it was getting blocked.

There's not enough demand for anyone to put any effort into freeing our bootloader. These petitions have been up for months and haven't reached the minimum requirements. Just get used to TW ROMs or don't support either AT&T or Samsung with the next phone you get and go the Stock Android path.

UnhoIy said:
There's not enough demand for anyone to put any effort into freeing our bootloader. These petitions have been up for months and haven't reached the minimum requirements. Just get used to TW ROMs or don't support either AT&T or Samsung with the next phone you get and go the Stock Android path.
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Much agreed. I see a nexus device in my future

Just signed it. If they don't, it'll be hacked anyway.

I signed it. My signature by itself means nothing. My signature along with many others may help.

i root SGH i777 said:
i actually just today put a complain on at&t's facebook page about use wanting a bootloader unlocking tool like with htc phones. i have heard no reply yet.
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I'm merely going to point this out, Complaining to ATT for a tool to unlock the bootloader is the wrong place to complain, it is HTC that provides the way to unlock the BL you would need to post that complaint on the Samsung webpage or facebook page

signed

Two more votes required!

signed both

i bought my s5 before i knew about the locked bootloader, so now im selling to buy a g600f

Isriam said:
i bought my s5 before i knew about the locked bootloader, so now im selling to buy a g600f
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Not a bad idea really...
Sad to think that we may never truly own our devices here....g

Signed.. Where's a good place to sell a S5 att
Sent from my SM-G900A using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2

Signed

LG G3 just got hacked Oct 11th. Hopefully the same hacker will focus on KLTEATT

cstayton said:
I'm merely going to point this out, Complaining to ATT for a tool to unlock the bootloader is the wrong place to complain, it is HTC that provides the way to unlock the BL you would need to post that complaint on the Samsung webpage or facebook page
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AT&T won't provide a tool for the unlocking but I'm quite confident they are the ones that asked for it as other network providers offer unlocked phones. I believe the S5 from T-Mobile is unlocked and the international is unlocked. A complaint to Samsung might push them to play hardball with AT&T like HTC and I believe Motorola have so really complaining to both is the best route. I hold out little hope for a change in stance but maybe the pummeling by Apple will help change minds.

Is it just me or is this phone a devepors dud?

So I understand that we have locked bootloader but it seems that these forums are dying. This is the first LG phone ive ever owned but it really feels dead even compared to my Galaxy note 3. It's like nobody is even trying to do anything with it and its made me quite sad. Anyone have any suggestions as to how to make this phone feel fun and different like I remember doing to my Galaxy s2 or s3? I miss the good old days when a new rom came out every week and new exploits came out almost instantly.

Since there is no official unlock method, it's very tough to develop. Even if there was a workaround to unlock, these money hungry CDMA carriers lock us out of fastboot and adb, so it wouldn't be possible either way. I really wish I would've waited for the new Nexus phones or the OnePlus Two.

ironbesterer said:
Since there is no official unlock method, it's very tough to develop. Even if there was a workaround to unlock, these money hungry CDMA carriers lock us out of fastboot and adb, so it wouldn't be possible either way. I really wish I would've waited for the new Nexus phones or the OnePlus Two.
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The one plus 2 isn't for CDMA, but yeah, the nexus phone would have been great.

EmSeeMAC said:
The one plus 2 isn't for CDMA, but yeah, the nexus phone would have been great.
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Wasn't saying it was. I'm saying I wish I would've waited for it. I didn't want a carrier phone to begin with, but the G4 made me want it. Big mistake
Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

I know how you feel. I had mine since release and though I think its an all around great phone root for the most part has done me justice. I just think the general idea of bootloader locking is bull**** and should be illegal. I would love a nexus phone but I will not buy into googles push to cloud storage and their services. I can deal with no removable battery but non expandable memory is a no go. Honestly if/when we get android M on the G3 and we get a custom rom I will go back to it provided the bluetooth issues are ironed out. But thats just my 2 cents

kangta05 said:
I know how you feel. I had mine since release and though I think its an all around great phone root for the most part has done me justice. I just think the general idea of bootloader locking is bull**** and should be illegal. I would love a nexus phone but I will not buy into googles push to cloud storage and their services. I can deal with no removable battery but non expandable memory is a no go. Honestly if/when we get android M on the G3 and we get a custom rom I will go back to it provided the bluetooth issues are ironed out. But thats just my 2 cents
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Bootloader unlock, illegal... Really? Please don't be that guy. We bought the phone, we should be able to do what we want to it. That's like buying a car and it being illegal to change your own oil.

You might want to read that again. Where did I state that UN locking it should be illegal. I said the whole boot loader locking thing is bs ie we should not be locked out from it.

I called LG and talk to a tech who told me if I send my phone to them they would unlock my bootloader but it would void my warranty and of course I already knew that but I was just shocked that they said yes instead of telling me no.

[Q] help figuring out the best option to buy unlockable BL?

I edited the post to try and make it more "useful" and specific.
Today i finally got m z3+, 3rd xperia in my android history, first thing i checked was bl status and it wasn't allowed unlock.
This is a first time for me and it put me in a hard position beause I honestly can't live without root ^^
Now i sent back and got a refund and am trying to make the best decision to find an unlockable one but have a few questions
Any idea on an average percentage of locked devices? Are they very common or is it 50/50?
The price range for this phone goes from 300€ to 900€, with amazon selling it personally at 575€, in electronics store in my town 499, so 500 is average but there are several offers for way less online..are cheaper phones from stocks for generic market request and perhaps more likely to be locked? I ask this because I previously thought only carrier branded versions were locked. :S
What are your thoughts/experiences?

Rudjgaard said:
I edited the post to try and make it more "useful" and specific.
Today i finally got m z3+, 3rd xperia in my android history, first thing i checked was bl status and it wasn't allowed unlock.
This is a first time for me and it put me in a hard position beause I honestly can't live without root ^^
Now i sent back and got a refund and am trying to make the best decision to find an unlockable one but have a few questions
Any idea on an average percentage of locked devices? Are they very common or is it 50/50?
The price range for this phone goes from 300€ to 900€, with amazon selling it personally at 575€, in electronics store in my town 499, so 500 is average but there are several offers for way less online..are cheaper phones from stocks for generic market request and perhaps more likely to be locked? I ask this because I previously thought only carrier branded versions were locked. :S
What are your thoughts/experiences?
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Was "Find my Xperia" turned on? This makes the BL non-unlockable. Just turn it off and you should be fine.

Rudjgaard said:
I edited the post to try and make it more "useful" and specific.
Today i finally got m z3+, 3rd xperia in my android history, first thing i checked was bl status and it wasn't allowed unlock.
This is a first time for me and it put me in a hard position beause I honestly can't live without root ^^
Now i sent back and got a refund and am trying to make the best decision to find an unlockable one but have a few questions
Any idea on an average percentage of locked devices? Are they very common or is it 50/50?
The price range for this phone goes from 300€ to 900€, with amazon selling it personally at 575€, in electronics store in my town 499, so 500 is average but there are several offers for way less online..are cheaper phones from stocks for generic market request and perhaps more likely to be locked? I ask this because I previously thought only carrier branded versions were locked. :S
What are your thoughts/experiences?
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My z3+ said that i wasn't able to unlock my bootloader to but i tried anyway and there was not a single problem when i did it or up unitl now.

Learnincurve said:
Was "Find my Xperia" turned on? This makes the BL non-unlockable. Just turn it off and you should be fine.
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Misanful said:
My z3+ said that i wasn't able to unlock my bootloader to but i tried anyway and there was not a single problem when i did it or up unitl now.
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Dammit, i read the replies as i got back from the post offic to ship back the phone.
I actually thought about trying to unlock it anyway but i was convinced sony wouldn't have given me the unlock code if i tried or it could've bricked the device. This is pretty big news although, it means any bl is unlockable?
Didn't know about the find my xperia, very good to know, when replacement arrives in a few days i'll try again, thank you guys.

You are a nerd