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ok here it goes....i thought about sharing this story about what i done during a boring physics lesson at school, it sounds quite dangerous, but luckily i am still alive to tell your guyz out there.
I was bored during class when the teacher was explaining facts about an electric socket. The teacher told us many facts about an electrical socket that gives an output of 240 volts and 0.5 amps. And then he said that 0.1 amp can kill someone. Without realizing or caring about what he said, i was dared by my friends to shove a pair of scissors into the socket and turn it on. Once i did it, the whole classroom lights suddenly blew out, and all electrical appliances that run on mains switched off. Sparks then came out of the socket holes and I was laughing.
Luckilly the teacher didnt see me or anyone else appart from my friends. After the physics lesson, everyone said that the whole of the 4th floor had a blackout. And dats the point where i laughed hard
I still dont know why i did that in the first place, although i know it was a stupid thing to do and i could have got myself killed. But all i really know is that i blew up many fuse,
it's described at walking on the edge of committing a darvin
Well, I'm not sure if your teacher is mistaken or you've just remembered it wrongly, but a 0.5A on a 240V is not sufficient to power many things. E.g., the total power of a 240V 0.5A is 120W, that's slightly higher than an old fashion 100W lightbulb. The max plug in UK (which I believe is so in HK) is 13A, that is more than 3000W, which then can be used to power stuff like an iron/heater, which goes around 2000W.
Pluging in the scissors to the socket short circuit it and hence creating a flux high current, blowing/triggering any safety fuse along the way. Since you said the entire floor was blackout, it seems that it only blown/triggered 1 major fuse. Unlikely it will cause multiple blown/triggered fuses.
On the 0.1A killing a person issue, if you consider a person's resistance is 2MOhm (which I think is higher than that), it would take a relatively large 20MV (that is 2x10^7) voltage across, which you can't easily get (if not impossible, consider a high tension cable is probably around 1MV). If you were to get that kind of voltage, the power across would be 0.1x0.1x2MOhm = 20,000W, which would definitely kill someone. Consider the amount shown, I bet it takes less than 0.1A to kill someone. To put into perspective, a Taser gun has a peak (not constant) voltage of 50,000V, which is (consider the 2MOhm assumption) 0.025A.
FYI, in most cases of electric shock cases, the fatal part is usually the duration of the electric shock (i.e. small continuous current flowing, cooking you for 30 minutes) or hurting yourself after a shock (i.e. knock yourself onto the solid ground after a shock).
Anyone fall asleep yet? anyway, whatever you do, don't mess with electricity. Respect it.
p/s: Sorry for the lengthy lecture above.. "occupation sickness".
Alan Chan said:
I still dont know why i did that in the first place, although i know it was a stupid thing to do and i could have got myself killed. But all i really know is that i blew up many fuse,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might want to lay off the pipe. As you can see, there is no good that can come from it.
16 Volts AC straight through the heart can be fatal.
AC requires about 60 mA to cause fibrillation, DC needs 500 mA for the same result. Fibrillation is not always fatal....
get new friends
mikechannon said:
Jees it'll be a merciful release.
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Click to collapse
I have a heart condition and I can assure you from personal experience that fibrillations are far from mercyful
wow, i never knew you guys would be so passionate about what i did. I thought u guyz would growl at me for my stupidity.
Hanmin, you can be my next physics teacher for giving me a very comprehensive lecture , your lecture was easilly understood compared to my crappy science teacher
and yes ultraprimeomega, i think i may need new friends for the sake of my safety and education
Anyone here watching "Myth busters"?
They did a whole episode on throwing electric appliances in to bathtub and measuring the current across the "heart" of a dummy to see if dropping a hairdryer or toaster in the bath can really kill you.
I didn't see that Mythbuster. I guess it should be confirmed? Although there are lost of circumstances influencing the outcome:
-use pure H2O, it hardly conducts
-use non-ionic bath oil (good for the skin too)
-a decent Residual-current device would cut off power before you can even notice it
-a decent low amp fast fuse could be a life saver
-high ionic bath salt makes the water much more conductive than your body
-place the tub on rubber, use PVC water supply and drain pipes
they had to mess with the fuses to get enough current to kill the gel doll before they went off
Rudegar said:
they had to mess with the fuses to get enough current to kill the gel doll before they went off
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Click to collapse
oh, right, a gel doll again... very nice material for ballistics, although I believe they should put bones in it for realistic results.
Arteries, veins and nerves are full of ions giving excellent conductive paths through our body, I doubt if they simulated those in the gel.
I got kicked out of woodwork when i was 13 for tying a pupils tie round a lathe and threatening to turn it on, because he had made a better baseball bat than me, unfortunatly, for him, my friend hit the power button and nearly killed him, we promptly got suspended and moved into sewing as a punishment, with a teacher from hell. My friend who i wont name decided to wire up some gold thread to the mains socket and complained to her(teacher) that the machine was faulty, needless to say when she touched the machine she was electrocuted along with my friend, who was promptly expelled, and i was giving a severe caning, in those days we had no trip switches so the only thing that saved them both was the thin gold thread that blew as well.
Moral of the story is dont mess with electrics, or hang around with nutcases
Maggy said:
oh, right, a gel doll again... very nice material for ballistics, although I believe they should put bones in it for realistic results.
Arteries, veins and nerves are full of ions giving excellent conductive paths through our body, I doubt if they simulated those in the gel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With an heavy insulation on the outer body part (i.e. skin = not very good conductor), not even a gold wire inside the body matters. Further, I suspect that the water and the bathtub plays an important part as well.
First, consider that you throwing an electrical appliance into the water, chances are, the 'Neutral' line will be in the water (together with the dangerous 'Live'). Any current from the live line will eventually find the shortest path to the neutral line, leaving the rest (i.e. probably you) untouched.
Then, consider that the current is increased, hence requiring not only the shortest path to the neutral, but a lot of paths to the neutral as well. As with the Faraday cage theory, electric current will tend to go around an object (i.e. electrons repelling each other), especially a better conducting one (i.e. a car protecting the driver from a lighting strike). As such, in terms of choice, if the current require additional path to go to the neutral, chances are, it will rather go via the water (better conductor, I think) or the steel bath tub (i.e. like the body of a car), than your body.
Hanmin, your whole story sounds fair enough... for laymen.
First of all you're mixing up AC, DC and static behaviour.
Faraday created spectacular shows using extremely high static charges, indeed comparable to a car hit by lightning. If you want to conduct an experiment with a metal bath tub filled with nice warm water and any bath soap, salt or oil struck from the side by lightning, I volunteer to step in.
So, our PC's have metal housing, you'd say, so they're a Faraday cage? Right? Wrong. I've had a computer company near the Dutch coast where thunder and lightning are regular events. I could tell when repairs would come in the next day. Phone, Lan and power wires go straight into the metal cage without making contact with the cage itself. Lightning doesn't even have to strike these wires directly, induction can be fatal for your equipment.
Edison called AC "the killer current" and refused to sell AC. AC can not "flow away" to neutral, it wants to go to earth/ground. As long as the fuse doesn't blow, it delivers as much energy as it can. In a bath tub it will not behave like lightning trying to find the shortest way, but like a cloud, spearding as fast as it can. Remember electrons all have the same negative load so they push each other away. And they are LIGHTning fast.
That's why it's also not a good idea to use a standard vacuum cleaner to clean your PC on the inside: the motor will create a cloud of electrons trying to find a way to ground. The free electrons can move much faster through the cloud of static charged dust particles toward your PCB than the slow air stream moves to the vacuum.
The surface of the dry skin is indeed a bad conductor. But even good enough for ECG using leads with suction cups or stickers. And ECG measures very faint electrical pulses in the heart, even with leads on the hands or feet.
Most people believe that water is a good conductor. But in fact pure water is an almost perfect isolator. And even tap water in most Western societies is so pure that you can hardly split it into hydrogen and oxigen using a fairly safe 12 V DC set up, not without first adding a hand full of salt. Current needs ions to move through a liquid, our bodies are full of ions, tap water has much less.
Niiccceee.. good that my explaination has someone to read it in details. I'm so worried that my stuff will get everyone to sleep. Anyway...
You are right that the induction from a lighting can toast your phone, lan and power line. However, as these lines are not long and straight enough anywhere near the PC, the fatal induction is actually caused by somewhere along the way to your company (e.g. from the phone exchange, along the telephone pole/underground, to your company). Your PC will be safe from lightling if it is disconnection from possible external induction source (e.g. the phone line to the outside world). I'm happy to put myself inside the PC case (if it is big enough) for a lighting strike
Some history lesson for all. Edison called the AC the killer current mainly because of the business competition between the DC and AC business. As Edison has spent a lot of money and effort just to change the public point of view on the safety of electricity, and just as the business is getting some money... this Tesla (I think) guy made AC electricity and business is good (costrofit ratio), due to the fact that AC has a certain edge on long distance transfer (I'll omit the details on this). Hence, Edison is trying very very hard to make AC look dangerous, by killing innocent animals (in some cases, virtually just cook it), and eventually, co-invented the electric chair.
In the view of the danger of DC current, it is a false impression of most people thinking that DC current is safe, mainly because the DC current we normally exposed to are low voltage DC current (e.g. batteries and phone charger). However, in strict AC/DC defination, a lighting strike is a DC current. And, I think a Taser gun uses DC too (you would certainly need to use some form of capasitor to store enough voltage for a shock, using regular batteries), unless the battery use is exceptionally designed for it.
Anyone has a Taser to confirm this? Does it gives out a buzzing sound from low to high frequency when armed some AA batteries operated cameras with powerful flash will have the same buzzing noise, indicating that the capacitor is charging, ready for the flash).
As for your statement of "AC can not 'flow away' to neutral, it wants to go to
earth/ground.", I'm not sure if you really meant "can not", or "not only". Anyway, all AC electric stuff, electrons goes between live/neutral, and does not require the earth/ground to be functional (not safely, at least).
If you remember some electric circuit theory, if caes where you have two parallel line (AC or DC), with one line much lower resistance (i.e. shorter distance between live and neutral) compared to the other (longer distance to 'ground' where 'ground' is not designed to pair with live), majority of the current will go through the lower resistance route and hence current that goes through the high resistance route maybe very well harmless. HOWEVER, there are cases where the current in through the high resistance route is harmful, that are in the cases where the current going through the low resistance route is excessive high. Example, the low:high resistance current ratio may be 100:1. If it takes (say) 1A to be fatal, the other route will need to have 100A (which will have all fuses nuked - e.g. my house has a main fuse of about 80A for both the heater and the cooker). That's what mentioned on my post above around the "consider that the current is increased..." section. And, as for the case with extreme high current, apply the Faraday thing mentioned on your first paragraph.
Take the Taser gun for example. If you were read the user manual, there is a minimal distance requirement between you and the target, due the the fact that the probes triangular trajectory path. Being too close to the target, will cause the probes to be too closely attached, not giving enough muscle area to 'disable' the target. The electron will not spread around (like clouds) through all the muscle, just the shortest route to the other probe (there may be current through other muscles, but too small to be noticeable).
Where in the Western societies are you in now? US? Nice... in the UK, you are/not so lucky, as you dont get very much pure water over the tap. UK is on hardwater, which seemingly adding mineral to the diet, probably in such situation, protect us from electrocution? If you were to be 1+ hours around London, take a bit of tap water, leave it on any surface and leave it for it to evaporate. At the end of the day, you'll get a pile of white powder. Yes, it is this bad.
As for the ECG issue, it goes the same with the low-vs-high resistance route. I'm sure it wont work underwater (dirty water?). However, still, it is a better conductor than many things.
Taser guns use electronics related to those modern tiny switched power adapters. The result in both cases is indeed DC. The physics of the lightning path are very complex, lightning can fork out to lots of places being hit by one strike but in general you're right that DC/static tries to find a short route.
In one of my first messages in this thread I mentioned what DC it takes to kill, so yes, I'm well aware that there is no such thing as "safe electricity".
If you short a capacitor or battery, current flows in one direction, from high potential to low potential till both potentials are equal.
AC doesn't come in batteries or capacitors, it comes from a generator constantly pulling the potential from above neutral to below neutral, 50 or 60 times a second. If you would short circuit the generator itself it would continue to produce electricity as long as it hasn't killed itself. There is no flowing away till both potentials are equal.
I'm a retired computer engineer, but I still do remember Ohm's law, thank you.
In case of the bath tub it means:
we have a fixed voltage (U) of 110 or 220V, depends where you live
we can measure resistance (I) from the device that drops into the water to the feet of the tub, to the tap, to the drain
U=I.R in this case U=I1.R1+I2.R2...InRn
With an 80A fuse, the radio falling on the feet, the tap behind the back and the drain and two tub feet straight under it it seems likely that about 2/3 of 80A, well lets say 50A will strike you, 50 x 110 = 5500W
That should boil the egg if not electrocute it
I WOULD SAY YOU WOULD GET A GREAT SHOCK FROM A TOASTER IN A BATH. If you took a mains plug and put two springs on the live and neutral and inserted this into a bath of water it would generate heat, i know i have boiled a cup of water for tea by this method. so if the electricity didnt kill you you will be boiled like an egg
yeah in some situations i see myth busters as more intertainment then real science
like when they had a rather small boat as an example of titanic pulling people down when it went down
a such a small raft cant compare to titanic in ways of down pull
but they are ok fun
but if they bust a myth dont mean a 100% bust in my book
Maggy said:
...
we have a fixed voltage (U) of 110 or 220V, depends where you live we can measure resistance (I) from the device that drops into the water to the feet of the tub, to the tap, to the drain
U=I.R in this case U=I1.R1+I2.R2...InRn
With an 80A fuse, the radio falling on the feet, the tap behind the back and the drain and two tub feet straight under it it seems likely that about 2/3 of 80A, well lets say 50A will strike you, 50 x 110 = 5500W That should boil the egg if not electrocute it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Equations, I like! For the case you've calculated above, you consider that the full 80A is flowing. And weirdly, you seemingly considering that 2/3 flowing through a human body. Lets look at this, at the 50A you mentioned (yes, you are right, 5500W will cook you very well). Consider the worst case of U at 240V, your body will have to have (U/I = R) a resistance of 4.8Ohm, which is weirdly small, dont you think?
As with scousemartin's boil an egg, you will have to consider the large amount of water in the bath tub as oppose to the amount of water you use in boiling the egg (e.g. it would take really long for the water to boil) And, even IF the water has similar rate in raise of temperature, I'm sure the person involved will be pretty quick to jump out of the water (when a toaster hit the tub) before it gets boiling.
I guess some of you may interested to mod your kaiser screen to tilt almost 90 degree, then you can use it on your car without any holder.
Here's a guidance document i pull together.
Remember, do it only on your own risk.
Enjoy!
Too scary for my taste.
Thanks! That's looks a little intimidating.
So basically is the only reason it tilts more is because the two plastic pieces are cut? What would happen if those two pieces were cut totally?
Thanks again.
A prediction...
Very cool mod, but I predict a large number of bricks on this one...
As a hardware design engineer professionally, I would have to recommend against this mod unless you are a technician and have access to the facilities.
If you are dead set on doing this mod, please take the time to prepare your environment - at the minimum, get an ESD strap and make sure you're properly grounded. Ideally, a strap and a mat are called for.
This is an ESD nightmare waiting to happen. Doing this on your kitchen table or coffee table - especially at this time of year, is literally Russian Roulette as to whether you will discharge 30K volts or so into the PCB and totally brick the device.
As a rule of thumb, if you don't know what ESD is, you probably shouldn't even consider this mod, or any other that involves opening up the device and exposing the PCB.
Just my 2 cents. Caveat Emptor, etc. etc.
Regards,
Jeff
nice..
i was thinking of something along the same thoughts, as it tilts, why have a holder!! just drive safe (as always)
exept, im still waiting for mine..
Wow! Nice Hardware mod tonychen! Just posting to register my shock and awe! Great writeup too!
@trick420: As can be seen, like Hermes, most sensitive electronics components are in a metal Faraday cage so this isn't as dangerous as it looks from an electronic standpoint. It's always a good idea to use a grounding strap however.
All those plastic tabs are gonna be a real bear to work with though. The TyTN only had a few but the Kaiser appears to be riddled with them.
trick420 said:
Very cool mod, but I predict a large number of bricks on this one...
As a hardware design engineer professionally, I would have to recommend against this mod unless you are a technician and have access to the facilities.
If you are dead set on doing this mod, please take the time to prepare your environment - at the minimum, get an ESD strap and make sure you're properly grounded. Ideally, a strap and a mat are called for.
This is an ESD nightmare waiting to happen. Doing this on your kitchen table or coffee table - especially at this time of year, is literally Russian Roulette as to whether you will discharge 30K volts or so into the PCB and totally brick the device.
As a rule of thumb, if you don't know what ESD is, you probably shouldn't even consider this mod, or any other that involves opening up the device and exposing the PCB.
Just my 2 cents. Caveat Emptor, etc. etc.
Regards,
Jeff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure everyone knows what electro-static discharge is.
so there are two bits of plastic going around the hinges that are stopping the display from tilting fully? like a tendon or do these bits of plastic go up against something to stop motion?
Yes you are right!
The ESD strap i guess is not available to most people except hardware engineers. The simplest way to discharge the static electricity is to wet your hands with a wet towel.
trick420 said:
Very cool mod, but I predict a large number of bricks on this one...
As a hardware design engineer professionally, I would have to recommend against this mod unless you are a technician and have access to the facilities.
If you are dead set on doing this mod, please take the time to prepare your environment - at the minimum, get an ESD strap and make sure you're properly grounded. Ideally, a strap and a mat are called for.
This is an ESD nightmare waiting to happen. Doing this on your kitchen table or coffee table - especially at this time of year, is literally Russian Roulette as to whether you will discharge 30K volts or so into the PCB and totally brick the device.
As a rule of thumb, if you don't know what ESD is, you probably shouldn't even consider this mod, or any other that involves opening up the device and exposing the PCB.
Just my 2 cents. Caveat Emptor, etc. etc.
Regards,
Jeff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The plastic needs to be cut as it stop the two metal blocks to tilt up more. If you cut it totally, you still get the same result, so i don't see to much reason for doing that.
juiceppc said:
Thanks! That's looks a little intimidating.
So basically is the only reason it tilts more is because the two plastic pieces are cut? What would happen if those two pieces were cut totally?
Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uploaded the guide to a mirror:
http://rapidshare.com/files/73519908/Kaiser_Screen_Mod.pdf
This is a great GUIDE!!!!
Thanks Tonychen.
Nadavi.
Not to be a killjoy but people should be aware that the plastic strips are there to prevent over extension of the thin ribbon cables connecting the display to the body.
You may not actually part these immediately but constant over extension will cause them to fail early.
Learnt my lesson years ago on a Nokia 9210i (stop that cursing there will you!!! someone had to buy them!) Smiles.
very intimidating but too scary for me. i would rather not break my $500 dollar phones just so i can see the screen go a couple more degrees more
just done it and its ace
slight idea change tho because its next to no use haveing it at 90 degree angle unless in car, not cutting away plastic compleatly makes it a little stiffer and will only be able to make the screen angle to 90 by choice so you shudnt break anything as you wont do it all the time. just a thought.
very nice mod.
this is going to be off topic though. " is there anyway we could tighten the hinge? mine is getting loose already.
Just a thought but isnt it alot easier to rest the back underside of the phone on a small object. this will tilt it forward and make the screen visible in the same way... You could use a small velcro patch to secure it to the said object which in turn could secure to the dashboard etc in the same manner. Alot less scary to do and you wont run the risk of damaging your phone.....
Pretty cool, but idk about messing w/ the structural integrity.
I always thought ESD was a myth. I've been working on computing hardware for almost a decade, and I do take the necessary precautions when working on new/mission critical equipment. But 90% of the time I am working on refitting relatively old workstations/servers where my boss has basically told me he doesn't really care if these items make it back into active service or not, so stuff like that I always go commando on, and I've never had a single piece of equipemnt go spontaniously DOA on me while handling it. (i.e. every single item of equipment I've retired due to DOA was reported as DOA before I touched it...)
Oh, and I have a mini tesla coil in my cube... j/k
Here is my tesla, got bored a couple weeks ago and made one, its like my fifth one.
tonychen said:
I guess some of you may interested to mod your kaiser screen to tilt almost 90 degree, then you can use it on your car without any holder.
Here's a guidance document i pull together.
Remember, do it only on your own risk.
Enjoy!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who's daring enough to try this on the new Touch Pro 2?
While I'm charging my Diamond, I occasionally get electroshocks.
A few days ago, I experienced it for the first time, the shocks first increased in size exponentially until I just had to drop the phone.
I've just had the same experience again, but the shocks were strong from the first time now.
I'm not talking about some tickling tiny current that's flowing, it feels more like pure 230V going trough my fingers (yes, I know how that feels from experience ).
I know that's not possible as the Diamond charges on USB (5V), but still... I get shocks sometimes when I touch the metal sides.
Is anybody else having this?
Hmm , no and I would check the earth in your socket on the wall .
Yeah check the earth in the socket or extension you have your computer plugged into.
Also check that the computer actually uses an earth pin. If its a laptop its a super common problem because alot of them don't use earth pins!
Yeah, should've guessed that one... Of course my laptop doesn't have an earth.
Still, it shouldn't give me shocks like that, I except all metal parts on the outside to be completely isolated.
Twabi2 said:
Yeah, should've guessed that one... Of course my laptop doesn't have an earth.
Still, it shouldn't give me shocks like that, I except all metal parts on the outside to be completely isolated.
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Click to collapse
Its an age old complaint... The ground wire from the USB is tied to the ground of the phone, and so this is effectivly the 'earth' of the phone.
There are good arguments to say any metal on the outside should be grounded, and alos good arguments to say it should be completly isolated.
In the end it doesnt matter too much which way you go, charge will always build up, with the meterial between forming a diaelevtric.
Don't worry its not dangerous, it just bloody hurts
Excellent explanation. I wouldn't put it better.
HastaSSSS
LOL, Sorry I couldn't resist, & after I will chastise myself & delete my own post, but where is in the world are you guys that they call it the "earth"? Us yanks call it the ground wire & I was just curious as I've never heard the term "earth" used for this?
just my 2 cents..
earthing is a term used for the return elec current to be diffused. this is done by keeping a reference point as earth.. as for the ships, the current is grounded in its hull coz the mass of the hull is considered as a reference point known as earth
that way the body of the phone is considered as a reference due to the mass and the body is considered as earth for the phone
now the current flowing through the phone is not too much but the return current from the power socket or ur laptop is transfered to the body of the phone thats why u get the shocks. check and prevent this to avoid any damages to ur phone
Earth is the common term used here in Blighty. Electricity was developed in many parts of the world fairly recently (yeah I know it's been known about for thousands of year - hence the term developed) so our respective terms probably evolved from whatever was locally popular at the time...
UK & USA; "...two countries separated by a common language"?
p.s. You can tell how bored I am waiting for the Postie to bring my new phone...
AFAIK the term 'earth' comes from a long long way back when a coper wire was run to an iron anchor placed into the earth (mud, earth, soil, whatever you wanna call it!). There's an interesting way to make a radio using such an earth anchor, without any additional power - but its bloody quiet!
Usually the term 'Earth' is used to signify the lowest grounding potential you can find in a system - like the example given, the hull of a ship. Its usually used when you talk about electrical wiriring etc.
'Ground' is usually used in electronics to signify the lowest potential for a circuit. You can have multiple grounds at different potentials, such as when you combine analog and digital circuits with optocouplers.
Essentially they both mean the same thing, but its just convention over here. If you said Earth when talking about a digital electrical circuit you may get laughed at, and saying 'ground' you wouldn't.
But if you said 'is that TV grounded?' when talking about the wiring in your house it would seem normal, just as saying 'is that TV earthed?'.
So its not an exact science just like most words over here!
I got similar problem when using TyTN II. The shock occurs few times when charging on my laptop with USB cable. Since my ear got shock (not my hand), so, I feel the shock is come from the ear piece slot.
Hello, looking for a broken/borked/dead HTC One to attempt a different disassembly method to try to help the One community.
It is my understanding that they are glued together, not screwed, and that the suction cup method does not work. I used to retrofit headlights that also used glues, some heat glues, some needed a solvent. I have a lot of technical skill, and i would like to try my hand at popping one apart WITHOUT destroying the case/screen. I dont care if its water damaged, cracked screen, whatever, as long as its intact.
Posted this in all HTC One sections, please PM me if you have one or know of one, i'll pay shipping to and fro (i will NOT attempt repairs, JUST non-destructive disassembly) and post the results and a video on youtube if successful, and ship the unit back disassembled if successful, and not damaged further if not successful.
Please PM if interested or if you have any heads up to exchange contact information.
Thank you,
Slade8525
iFixIt already have a teardown guide up. http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/HTC+One+Teardown/13494/1
from that its almost impossible for anyone to dissassemble unless youre a expert in this stuff.
ive taken many tiny complicated things apart; soldered with a single strand of copper wire onto a 'dead' laptop motherboard to fix a desoldered chip, and taken apart headlights/tail lights and many other electronics dubbed 'impossible'.
its glued together; there are a hundred ways to get glue apart without high heat or fluid immersion or cutting. you can gas it in a bag to dissolve the epoxy without damaging electronics too. cheaply and safely.
IINexusII said:
iFixIt already have a teardown guide up. http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/HTC+One+Teardown/13494/1
from that its almost impossible for anyone to dissassemble unless youre a expert in this stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ifixit screwed up royally. The way they did it was completely incorrect. Do not use that as a guide for anything other than what not to do.
Heat gun, proper plastic pry tools, and small screwdriver with a t5 bit should the tools needed. And of course the proper disassembly steps in the right order. Ifixit missed that last part and already admitted they screwed up.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
anyone's phone last until now without charging port problems, or anyone changed their port and does the problems return? I'm considering if it is worth to replace the port
I have exactly the same question.
xdaxdap said:
I have exactly the same question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
end up selling the device as the charging port i bought from aliexpress got no stock and grab myself a lenovo legion y70
The charge port issue isn't actually the charge port, but somewhere on the main board. I've tried fixing close to a dozen boot looping on charger RP2's in the last year or 2, and didn't matter if it was a charge port out of a working one, it still had the issue after swapping
TechX1991 said:
The charge port issue isn't actually the charge port, but somewhere on the main board. I've tried fixing close to a dozen boot looping on charger RP2's in the last year or 2, and didn't matter if it was a charge port out of a working one, it still had the issue after swapping
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Click to collapse
what more is needed to discover the flaw? im holding onto my first razer phone 2 because i still believe and i choose to believe anything can be fixed one way or another
Titanricky8 said:
what more is needed to discover the flaw? im holding onto my first razer phone 2 because i still believe and i choose to believe anything can be fixed one way or another
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Gotta figure out what and where the issue lies on the main board. What tiny component is going bad causing it to not charge
TechX1991 said:
Gotta figure out what and where the issue lies on the main board. What tiny component is going bad causing it to not charge
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i assume its like finding a needle in a haystack furthermore different for each phone
Titanricky8 said:
i assume its like finding a needle in a haystack furthermore different for each phone
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Not exactly. If you have a thermal camera, you could hook up the phone with the back off and look for the component that's gettin hotter than everything else
I have a Razer Phone 2 that I'm refurbing for a client, and the USB-C port was in bad shape, so not only no data transfer, but she could only be charged via wireless. No worries though, at least in the case of this specific Razer 2, the problem was the flex cable that attaches the female type-c pin housing to the daughter-board. My theory, again, at least for this specific Razer 2, is because the 2 screws securing the port had come loose, the port was not secured, and was driven deeper inside the chassis when the owner went to plug it in. Since said flex is pretty wimpy, the movement back and forth probably fatigued the traces and the coating of the ribbon, more than likely damaging/breaking several traces.
My solution ended up being similar to the 2017 Retina MacBook Pro ‘Flexgate’ issue, where a very poor design choice created an LCD flex that had a spring/tension/rolling mechanism, which would pull out/extended the flex cable to accommodate the MB being opened, and retract to its resting position when closed. Unfortunately, the short length of the flex, along with a lack of robustness, meant that every opening and closing caused more and more fatigue, and eventually traces became severed and/or shorted out. This manifests as a 'stage light effect' that gets worse the further you open the lid, or in some cases, the 'stage light' effect is absent, however opening the lid past ~45 degrees causes the screen to shut off.
Apple did correct this the following year by replacing the flex with one 6mm longer that was more rigid than the previous year’s problematic flex. However, before the replacements were available (the 6mm extended flex worked a treat to fix the 2017’s issues, and it saved SO MUCH MONEY! A $10 flex cable as opposed to a ~$500 top housing assembly! So a $150 repair, as it is kinda labor intensive, not to mention if you’re not careful you’ll damage the LCD while removing it), a solution was needed to prevent clients from having to pay the ~$500 for a new display (which, OF CORSE, Apple refused to sell the LCD panel by itself (which are made by 2 suppliers, LG Display & Samsung Display, and Apple’s manufacturing contracts prevent both companies from selling any panels as replacement parts. Sometimes they’ll be a few here and there, but it’s rare), forcing people to buy the entire top case, which, of corse, STILL HAD THE PROBLEMATIC FLEX CABLE, meaning that the replacements would also eventually fail.
The solution to both the Razer 2 & 2017 MBP Retina's flex woes is to cut the offending flex just below where the fatigue is visible, or in the case of my client's Razer 2, where a visible kink was. Since the flex has 2mm or so of slack, you can then scrape (or VERY CAREFULLY use a fine tip soldering iron) to expose the tips of the traces, and using nanowire, bridge the two halves together with low-temp solder after aligning and stacking them, with one overlapping by ~0.25mm. Shielded nanowire isn't a common thing most people who don't do repair have laying around, so a workaround is to use twisted copper wire, which you then can un-twist, giving you very thin strands that are perfect for this. Just MAKE SURE THAT YOU EITHER APPLY SOME LIQUID ELECTRICAL TAPE OR UV CURABLE LIQUID INSULATION, since the strands wont be individually insulated or shielded. You should do this regardless of the type of nanowire you use, not only to prevent potential shorts, but also to reinforce the flex just in case it gets moved around again. This will make it more resistant to kinking up and/or breaking if it does experience any movement/bending. Louis Rossman of Rossman Repair Group has a great video that goes through the flex bridge technique in extreme detail.
One more interesting thing. I originally had ordered a replacement daughter-board/USB-C port from a 3rd party that I knew was used, but worth a shot. Unfortunately, it took about 2 months to arrive, so I got impatient and did the flex repair described above. After it eventually arrived, I installed it to see if it worked but found it was also defective . . but for a different reason than the one in my client's Razer 2. The control chip on the board (a 40-pin QFP, pin arrangement=12x8x12x8) needed to be removed, cleaned, and reinstalled, and voila, she lived again! I noticed some people saying their device was really hot by the port, and bad solder joints can create poor connections to their respective pads, and poor connections can cause increased resistance, which creates heat. Also, I think that specific charger control chip also has a pass-through for the mic that's on the board, so if your port AND mic are both not working or working intermittently, that might be the cause. I could be mistaken about the pass-through, I need to look at the data sheet again, as it's been a minute since I worked on said Razer 2, as the owner was out of the country for months on business. I actually finished refurbing it about 6 months or so ago.
I recorded the entire process, replacing the display assembly, battery, removing the old (and IMHO inferior) thermal putty and replacing it with Thermal Grizzly’s Kryonaut (reducing thermals by ~10C under load), and have EXTREMELY DETAILED footage of the repair from my USB microscope. I've been kinda lazy with editing it, but I just finished editing another refurb (an EVGA 660 Ti SC that needed a complete refurb, along with replacing 2 cooked MOSFETs. It has sentimental value to the owner, so yeah, a VERY COOL GPU that’s back at 100%), so I'm gonna start on the Razer 2 refurb video tomorrow. I’ll post a link here as soon as I upload it to YT and it’s published.
BTW, the fact that the charge ports are so hard to find new is kinda strange, and maybe suggest a much smaller production run of the Razer 2 than I had originally presumed. I repair devices every day, and my parts distributor can usually get ANYTHING, the guy and his business are amazing. He was able to get me an OEM display assembly and a brand-new sealed replacement OEM battery no problem. When it came to the charge port though, he couldn't find any new units, which is strange, especially since the battery was available as a newer, sealed replacement part. Charge ports and batteries are parts that usually get an additional limited production run for replacement part/repair purposes, since batteries will definitely need to be replaced after a few years, and charge ports USUALLY need to be replaced, unless a person is EXTREMELY GENTLE when they plug & unplug their devices. Unfortunately, all I've been able to find for charge port & mic daughter-boards are pulls from devices, and ya never know what a part has been through when it's not new.
Anyway, the guy who owns the Razer 2 just got back from the UK. and asked me to flash TWRP, LineageOS, etc., and when I opened the Razer 2 forum home page, this was the first thread I saw.
Hopefully this info can help someone out. Maybe someone can get something out of my experience with this specific device and part. And as I mentioned above, as soon as I post the refurb video on YT I'll post a link here. I think that’ll help out, if not because of the same issue, then maybe it can help rule out the issues I ran into.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Need4Sneed said:
I have a Razer Phone 2 that I'm refurbing for a client, and the USB-C port was in bad shape, so not only no data transfer, but she could only be charged via wireless. No worries though, at least in the case of this specific Razer 2, the problem was the flex cable that attaches the female type-c pin housing to the daughter-board. My theory, again, at least for this specific Razer 2, is because the 2 screws securing the port had come loose, the port was not secured, and was driven deeper inside the chassis when the owner went to plug it in. Since said flex is pretty wimpy, the movement back and forth probably fatigued the traces and the coating of the ribbon, more than likely damaging/breaking several traces.
My solution ended up being similar to the 2017 Retina MacBook Pro ‘Flexgate’ issue, where a very poor design choice created an LCD flex that had a spring/tension/rolling mechanism, which would pull out/extended the flex cable to accommodate the MB being opened, and retract to its resting position when closed. Unfortunately, the short length of the flex, along with a lack of robustness, meant that every opening and closing caused more and more fatigue, and eventually traces became severed and/or shorted out. This manifests as a 'stage light effect' that gets worse the further you open the lid, or in some cases, the 'stage light' effect is absent, however opening the lid past ~45 degrees causes the screen to shut off.
Apple did correct this the following year by replacing the flex with one 6mm longer that was more rigid than the previous year’s problematic flex. However, before the replacements were available (the 6mm extended flex worked a treat to fix the 2017’s issues, and it saved SO MUCH MONEY! A $10 flex cable as opposed to a ~$500 top housing assembly! So a $150 repair, as it is kinda labor intensive, not to mention if you’re not careful you’ll damage the LCD while removing it), a solution was needed to prevent clients from having to pay the ~$500 for a new display (which, OF CORSE, Apple refused to sell the LCD panel by itself (which are made by 2 suppliers, LG Display & Samsung Display, and Apple’s manufacturing contracts prevent both companies from selling any panels as replacement parts. Sometimes they’ll be a few here and there, but it’s rare), forcing people to buy the entire top case, which, of corse, STILL HAD THE PROBLEMATIC FLEX CABLE, meaning that the replacements would also eventually fail.
The solution to both the Razer 2 & 2017 MBP Retina's flex woes is to cut the offending flex just below where the fatigue is visible, or in the case of my client's Razer 2, where a visible kink was. Since the flex has 2mm or so of slack, you can then scrape (or VERY CAREFULLY use a fine tip soldering iron) to expose the tips of the traces, and using nanowire, bridge the two halves together with low-temp solder after aligning and stacking them, with one overlapping by ~0.25mm. Shielded nanowire isn't a common thing most people who don't do repair have laying around, so a workaround is to use twisted copper wire, which you then can un-twist, giving you very thin strands that are perfect for this. Just MAKE SURE THAT YOU EITHER APPLY SOME LIQUID ELECTRICAL TAPE OR UV CURABLE LIQUID INSULATION, since the strands wont be individually insulated or shielded. You should do this regardless of the type of nanowire you use, not only to prevent potential shorts, but also to reinforce the flex just in case it gets moved around again. This will make it more resistant to kinking up and/or breaking if it does experience any movement/bending. Louis Rossman of Rossman Repair Group has a great video that goes through the flex bridge technique in extreme detail.
One more interesting thing. I originally had ordered a replacement daughter-board/USB-C port from a 3rd party that I knew was used, but worth a shot. Unfortunately, it took about 2 months to arrive, so I got impatient and did the flex repair described above. After it eventually arrived, I installed it to see if it worked but found it was also defective . . but for a different reason than the one in my client's Razer 2. The control chip on the board (a 40-pin QFP, pin arrangement=12x8x12x8) needed to be removed, cleaned, and reinstalled, and voila, she lived again! I noticed some people saying their device was really hot by the port, and bad solder joints can create poor connections to their respective pads, and poor connections can cause increased resistance, which creates heat. Also, I think that specific charger control chip also has a pass-through for the mic that's on the board, so if your port AND mic are both not working or working intermittently, that might be the cause. I could be mistaken about the pass-through, I need to look at the data sheet again, as it's been a minute since I worked on said Razer 2, as the owner was out of the country for months on business. I actually finished refurbing it about 6 months or so ago.
I recorded the entire process, replacing the display assembly, battery, removing the old (and IMHO inferior) thermal putty and replacing it with Thermal Grizzly’s Kryonaut (reducing thermals by ~10C under load), and have EXTREMELY DETAILED footage of the repair from my USB microscope. I've been kinda lazy with editing it, but I just finished editing another refurb (an EVGA 660 Ti SC that needed a complete refurb, along with replacing 2 cooked MOSFETs. It has sentimental value to the owner, so yeah, a VERY COOL GPU that’s back at 100%), so I'm gonna start on the Razer 2 refurb video tomorrow. I’ll post a link here as soon as I upload it to YT and it’s published.
BTW, the fact that the charge ports are so hard to find new is kinda strange, and maybe suggest a much smaller production run of the Razer 2 than I had originally presumed. I repair devices every day, and my parts distributor can usually get ANYTHING, the guy and his business are amazing. He was able to get me an OEM display assembly and a brand-new sealed replacement OEM battery no problem. When it came to the charge port though, he couldn't find any new units, which is strange, especially since the battery was available as a newer, sealed replacement part. Charge ports and batteries are parts that usually get an additional limited production run for replacement part/repair purposes, since batteries will definitely need to be replaced after a few years, and charge ports USUALLY need to be replaced, unless a person is EXTREMELY GENTLE when they plug & unplug their devices. Unfortunately, all I've been able to find for charge port & mic daughter-boards are pulls from devices, and ya never know what a part has been through when it's not new.
Anyway, the guy who owns the Razer 2 just got back from the UK. and asked me to flash TWRP, LineageOS, etc., and when I opened the Razer 2 forum home page, this was the first thread I saw.
Hopefully this info can help someone out. Maybe someone can get something out of my experience with this specific device and part. And as I mentioned above, as soon as I post the refurb video on YT I'll post a link here. I think that’ll help out, if not because of the same issue, then maybe it can help rule out the issues I ran into.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
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NIce so what your saying is spare phone is the way to go unless you can bridge a flex cable. You think working ones ought to re-enforce the working cable? If so clear resin a conformal coating like what did you use tape to harden the cable? Still use mine from time to time and have done lets say a few rebuilds to make it extra pretty.