Database Develop

Anyone cookin' up WM2k3SE ROMs with the latest and greatest?

I've been watching with mild interest as the ROMs fly, but what would really get me off would be a nifty ROM that took all the latest perks developers are fiddling with and laid them over WM 2003SE Phone Edition instead of WM5. Now that would be something. A lot of the very best software and hardware (SD/IO devices, for example) is still not available for WM5, which is also quite limiting in other respects that I just can't get my mind around the reason why so many are getting on the WM5 consumerist bandwagon.
I've put forward some considered arguments against WM5 elsewhere which no one to date has attempted to challenge, so I'm going to have to assume that I was right on all counts.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=47636&start=25
To be proven wrong is never an unwelcome occurrence for me, so I hope no one is trying to spare me the rod, as it were. No, it must be that I hit on something that others hadn't considered before. Or is it just that the holders forth on the would-be merits of WM5 have not been very eloquent up to now? "It's new!" "It looks better!" "It's just better..." are the frustrated yet not untypical responses I've been reading to queries from other potential "upgraders".
What WM2K3SE needs is a new name, one without a number. And what some of us Blue Angel devotees need is a perky ROM or two backed with it. My ROMcraft is not really up to snuff yet, but if I have to do it myself I suppose in the end I'm willing to spend a lot of my free time over the course of the coming *several months* or so to acquire the needed know-how. Even so, I wish someone else would beat me to that high honor.
WM2K3SE does have its warts, and WM5 is still in the running, but in the balance isn't the new being grossly overrated at the expense of the better?

Depending upon which version of the BA you've got...
you might want to check out the SX66 Standardization Project
http://home.comcast.net/~sx66-blueangel/

Yeah, thanks for the tip, but I've got an O2 Xda IIs.

sub_rosa25 said:
Yeah, thanks for the tip, but I've got an O2 Xda IIs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all Blue Angel makes

To All You Guys Nagging Us To Provide Links For Wm6 Rom

I have noticed that many people ask us (that allready got the ROM) to provide download-links, and even mail it to you.
You have to understand that we cannot provide all new readers with that same info over and over.
If you read the two posts:
WM6 rom for wizard: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=289799
and
about the crossbow wwe leak: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=290277
you can easily figure out yourself how to get hold of it!
It's in your own best interest.
Even people here are helpful, all the post like "wm6 for me too plzzzzz mail it to [email protected]in" is quite irritating.
So "noobs" - please read those above posts carefully, and you wil figure out how to download it yourself!
Best regards
HansMarius

this is probably the best thread ever made

I guarantee you someone will come in here and ask for a link to it...
This is part of a big problem with mobile phone message boards I've seen across all makes and models.
Newbies come in asking hundreds of the same exacty question over and over and over again all because they're too lazy to figure it out for themselves like we all had to before them.
</rant>
I don't mind helping people out, but when it's something simple, easy, or has been discussed to extreme length here, it is extremely frustrating.

message to members and senior members:
guys be careful who you give the crossbow link to. remember that noobs rarely read threads and take the time to know what you have to do before flashing a rom. so to avoid the hundreds of threads about noobs bricking their phone lets just use our discretion on giving out those links.

I propose the opposite, give links willy nilly, let them brick, and then let them learn at cost.
Anyone who posts info about flashing Crossbow, please always pre-pend with a disclaimer to the effect that it will cause sterility and permanent flaccidity.
None of these roms are retail AFAIK. Side-effects will occur.
V

I to gave willing away links over PM a couple a days ago, but now i'm getting pretty frustrated because it takes up to much of my time tom answer.
This post was never intended as a "****ing noobs" post, but they (yes YOU) must understand that this takes up to much of our time, and we must use our precious time to set up our phones properly after we flashed the WM6 ROM;-)

Wow!
It took me a whopping 2 minutes to find the rom... Not that I actually downloaded it or anything...
But let's say that I did download the thing... And it were to happen to install just fine on my 8125... I think that I too, would rather spend time installing things like a camera proggie, and the odds and ends that a plain vanilla rom such as this probably doesn't contain... than to waste precious time responding to the non-existent requests for it's location...
I'd even bet that M$ might even put a "windows update" button in there somewhere just to tease us... Probably just tattles on ya tho... Anyone that HAS been brave enough to click on the "update" button capture what is going out? where the request goes? what the request contains? (I'll bet it just comes back with "no updates available" tho...)
Sure, it's easy to say "let the n00bs brick their phone"... Can't we all just get along? Don't be haters... Yeah, right... What the hell do I know... I'm just a n00b myself, but at least I'm a n00b that knows how to read, and tries to spend time actually reading the forums before making an @$$ out of myself...
Just my .02
PT

I Agree with vijay555 to give them the links BUT AT THEIR OWN RISK
Let them make a SmartBrick

i know it's kinda cool to have the latest and greatest, but what's the point if you are to make your super expensive machine into a mega-expensive paper-weight... doesn't really make any sense though...

Rumor has it that Microsoft secretly *WANTS* these ROMS to be leaked and tested by the phone geeks.
They allow Vista to be officially tested but it would be too difficult to go through any program like that - especially given the nature of how the OS is loaded.
Who better to test them, discover patches and fixes, and give pros and cons then the phone nerds. It also drums up interest for those who don't flash ROMS all the time. Do you realize how many major phone websites are already publishing Crossbow articles based on the leaked ROMS? You think Microsoft dislikes the publicity?
Apple went ape-**** because someone was using the pictures they provide on their website for free. Why do you think there has been ZERO comments from Microsoft when an OS is leaked 6 months early?
By the way, when you provide a link for a lossless photo of the icons on the homescreen of a yet to be released phone, people are going to download it:
http://images.apple.com/movies/us/pr/photos/iphone/iphone_home.tif.zip
I was able to turn that picture into all the icons needed in under 5 minutes. Thank God I hate Apple so much I'd never use them!
-Mc

Please send all WM6 rom requests to [email protected]! lol

McHale:
Why do you think there has been ZERO comments from Microsoft when an OS is leaked 6 months early?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That comment isn't correct. Microsoft has contacted this board and asked for the roms to be removed. Very politely I might add. I have every respect for them for that.
Regarding the rumour that Microsoft wants their roms to be leaked, well rumour has it that Kate Moss wants me to eat sushi off her naked body. As much as I would like to believe it to be true, it's unlikely and probably a self-serving reflection of my own inner desires. She probably wouldn't want me slobbering over her after enjoying Adonis, Pete Doherty, and likewise, I doubt Microsoft is short of beta testers when they have their entire body of employees to test for them.
We're just freeloaders... but resourceful and dedicated
V

vijay555 said:
That comment isn't correct. Microsoft has contacted this board and asked for the roms to be removed. Very politely I might add. I have every respect for them for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's very cool. I got the rumor information from a couple Microsoft Reps who were at my company when we were discussing corporate licensing and the future of OS's (including mobile). Sales guys...
Regarding the rumour that Microsoft wants their roms to be leaked, well rumour has it that Kate Moss wants me to eat sushi off her naked body. As much as I would like to believe it to be true, it's unlikely and probably a self-serving reflection of my own inner desires. She probably wouldn't want me slobbering over her after enjoying Adonis, Pete Doherty, and likewise, I doubt Microsoft is short of beta testers when they have their entire body of employees to test for them.
We're just freeloaders... but resourceful and dedicated
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you know, I heard that second rumor as well but I could have sworn it was me and not you and it wasn't Sushi... it was sausage pizza.
Man that would burn...
-Mc

that's very cool. I got the rumor information from a couple Microsoft Reps who were at my company when we were discussing corporate licensing and the future of OS's (including mobile). Sales guys...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man if we'd known that, we could have "facilitated" a leak quite some time back! A lot of people have been sitting on the roms for a while AFAIK.
sausage pizza
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Chipolata or Cumberland?!
V

I will say it again though. I think Microsoft has been very cool about us playing with the WM6 ROM and not getting Apple-sue happy. They've also been cool about us cooking custom ROMS with bits and pieces from all of them.
With as often as many of us upgrade Windows Mobile devices, this only encourages most of us to buy the next device that has it pre-installed. It won't keep many of us from upgrading because we have the new OS.
If it would make MS happy, I'm sure most of us would be happy to take part in a Beta program and report our findings as well as fixes (though they are all here on XDA if they take the time to read).
And as I stated days ago, let's not do anything that jeopardizes this fine forum or any of us on here. If MS says stop, we should take it someplace else.
-Mc

I entirely agree with you.
I was doing some work with some obscure Microsoft APIs yesterday, and as much as people love to shoot them down and whatever, we reap the rewards of the incredible amount of work that goes into supporting functions that we may never even get to use!
I specifically chose to use the phone I do because I can rip it apart software/ROM wise.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=287178#post1082343
Keep up the good work, one and all. Hack away!
V

True that
I don't do much posting but I have to agree with you guys. M$ can put the hurt on the board/forum really fast. Why not have a semi-approving Uncle and not create another "Napster" situation. M$ wants all the info they can get without the attitudes. Agree ????

An Open Letter to Microsoft - Let us develop WM6 please

Dear Microsoft,
I am writing this letter to ask permission for Xda-developers.com and it's users to officially use, develop, and share the new Wizard WM6 roms on this site. I know that you are currently not allowing us to do so. I believe it is in your best interest to let us. Here is why:
1) User Testing - allowing us to develop and share the WM6 rom for the wizard will open your product to a huge amount of testing. On this site, we don't just use our phones, we push them hard. We love to see the most we can get out of them. We get bored with what we have, so we load a new rom and see what it can do. 3 days later we load another. You will not find a better place on the Internet to test your roms.
Also, it will allow us to test compatibility with new and existing software. This site is already reference material for most software developers and even HTC. In our never-ending search for information about these devices we find things such as tricks to make them better, security holes, and all sorts of information that 3rd party companies can use.
All of this work is done by volunteers who, although they may gripe from time to time, feel a sense of satisfaction for doing this work. You can't buy their level of loyalty.
2) Goodwill - Allowing us to use, develop and share the WM6 rom will create a massive amount of goodwill on this site for your company. Since you are the biggest player in the game, you are currently subject to TONS of criticism everywhere you turn. People usually see you as this huge faceless corporation that wants to control people and take their money. I read the blogs of Microsoft employees and know this is really not the case. Allowing us to work on this rom openly will create goodwill that no ad campaign can buy.
3) Money - The bottom line is that you will save money. Money that might be spent on research will be saved by free research on this site. Money spent on ads to generate goodwill will be saved by the goodwill generated on this site.
I appreciate your consideration of this matter. Please let us know of your decision.
Sincerely,
texasaggie1

cool letter.. cant wait to see wat kind of responce you get.

Diddo.......Let's see if the big boss will let us play.

Great Letter Aggie. I would think the MS resposne would be pretty good about this. MS has been pretty good with other technologies lately in opening it up and taking feedbacks from users.
One thing is for sure. THERE IS NO OTHER PLACE BETTER THAN HERE TO TEST/TWEAK/BETTER WINDOWS MOBILE.
We do have a vast number of volunteers here that do a helluva job in making these roms faster and better.

What makes you think they aren't doing this already?
Where do you think this 'leaked' version originated from, anyway? And why is it literally painless to install?
MS has employees who actively troll this group (among others) to get feedback..good and bad...for their "pre-release" warez. They just lurk in the shadows (rightfully so, speaking up would make them the whipping boys of the forum...)
Since the hardware mfr and/or the service provider of the device is the one who decides whether or not to 'upgrade' your device with the latest and greatest OS (based heavily on whether or not they want to support multiple s/w versions) MS can't make any money off simply selling their product to the end user. Unlike the PC model of selling you a retail boxed version of a new operating system for your PC.
No money to be made = no money to be lost. Think about it.
All that being said, the most important thing to remember is that they will ACTIVELY shut down any site hosting their software without their permission. If they fail to enforce their copyrights by legal means, it further weakens any argument in future lawsuits regarding others who pirate their software. They will also quickly piss off the likes of t-mobile, cingular, and other service providers if they provide the end-user a means of bypassing their process of certifying the stability of their phones.
They will continue to operate in this way for a long time. They get free beta testing from 'hardcore users' while looking the other way. It's genius if you ask me!

!! Sweet !!
I would be very suprised if they gave this consideration, they will wait for the 'next gen' devices up to come to release it on in my opinion.
Besides we must face it, most people that are using these phones these days do not flash their device, nonetheless, know what it is.
We are the few flashing samurai that cannot live with a stock rom, and want to "juice" our hardware to get our money's worth. \m/
I will say If you live in the US now you will see that parents are buying their teenage kiddies smartphones/ppcs now for a couple reasons. 1) To ward off an appl music/video product, and of course. 2) To be able to reach them anywhere with the phone service.
It would have been funny to say that most people on this site are using/have used the wm6 leak already, so we might as well work together for free, for a learning purpose.
They need more of this for WM device settings...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2362050448778905490&q=steve+ballmer+remix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo

rizzo said:
What makes you think they aren't doing this already?
Where do you think this 'leaked' version originated from, anyway? And why is it literally painless to install?
MS has employees who actively troll this group (among others) to get feedback..good and bad...for their "pre-release" warez. They just lurk in the shadows (rightfully so, speaking up would make them the whipping boys of the forum...)
Since the hardware mfr and/or the service provider of the device is the one who decides whether or not to 'upgrade' your device with the latest and greatest OS (based heavily on whether or not they want to support multiple s/w versions) MS can't make any money off simply selling their product to the end user. Unlike the PC model of selling you a retail boxed version of a new operating system for your PC.
No money to be made = no money to be lost. Think about it.
All that being said, the most important thing to remember is that they will ACTIVELY shut down any site hosting their software without their permission. If they fail to enforce their copyrights by legal means, it further weakens any argument in future lawsuits regarding others who pirate their software. They will also quickly piss off the likes of t-mobile, cingular, and other service providers if they provide the end-user a means of bypassing their process of certifying the stability of their phones.
They will continue to operate in this way for a long time. They get free beta testing from 'hardcore users' while looking the other way. It's genius if you ask me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you might be right. But, aren't they allowing WM6 on the Universal? That may change the equation.

My gut feeling is that one or more of the ROM cookers in here works for M$. You don't know some of the things they do without having a lot more background knowledge than the average joe. There's nothing wrong with that, of course...that means better products for you and me.

I support Texasaggie1
Hi, i would like to support the request. It makes damn sense, I am an old-time Linux user and i think that Microsoft would show great marketing sense in allowing us to test it. I will not argue about the advantages and benefits,
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?

pzucchel said:
Hi, i would like to support the request. It makes damn sense, I am an old-time Linux user and i think that Microsoft would show great marketing sense in allowing us to test it. I will not argue about the advantages and benefits,
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Thought is NO-ONE. As all we do is RUN these ROMS and Tweak them to perform in the best way that they can. All that everyone does here is readily available and can/could/HAS been adopted by Developers, Networks & Manufacturers alike.

jwzg said:
My gut feeling is that one or more of the ROM cookers in here works for M$. You don't know some of the things they do without having a lot more background knowledge than the average joe. There's nothing wrong with that, of course...that means better products for you and me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt any of the 'cookers' work for Microsoft. Although difficult, it's fairly common to reverse-engineer someone elses code and mold it into something that you want. Once you get the hang of how things work and make the script kiddie tools to do it, it's fairly simple.
One thing that a cooker can't do is write an entire OS then 'leak' it onto the internet and call it WM6, this is done by someone entrusted with copies of it for legitimate purposes. Blame HTC or any of the ODM's if you want, but it my opinion, it would be a waste of your time.
If you want to infect the world, you must spread your disease. MS has come a long way in this regard with the likes of gaining on Palm, RIM, symbian, etc.
Microsoft has always leveraged piracy to work in their favor...those that can't get the disease (or otherwise can't afford it) will have access to it. If you can't make the sale, might as well get them hooked fo' free!

pzucchel said:
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but I had to chime in on this one, too. Maybe some people don't see it, but we ARE actively beta testing their software.
If you develop software, and want to have beta testing do any good, there needs to be some kind of order. Visiting forums to find information is chaotic at best. Sifting through page after page of hijacked threads and RTFM type questions isn't going to yield the feedback a company needs to squash the bugs out of code. If enough people complain about a particular 'feature' then it might get the company to try and replicate it in-house, but its very unlikely that you'd ever hear anything back from them.
End-users modifying their devices by flashing it with unreleased firmware it wasn't originally designed for is dangerous, and can cause a ripple effect if it's not managed. As long as the company stands by its "hey, we never said this code was finished - not to mention you're not supposed to have it" stance, it can shield them from almost ALL liability in you bricking your phone. In the mean time, hardcore folks like us will continue shoving the bleeding-edge not-ready-ware into our phones in order to tell the tales of our adventures to all that will listen - and MS will continue "leaking" their warez into the wild.
The minute Microsoft starts bending these rules for folks like us, then they are going to have to answer to THEIR customers (HTC, network providers, etc) when the nOObs start flooding their call centers for warranty-return requests.

texasaggie1 said:
Dear Microsoft,
I am writing this letter to ask permission for Xda-developers.com and it's users to officially use, develop, and share the new Wizard WM6 roms on this site. I know that you are currently not allowing us to do so. I believe it is in your best interest to let us. Here is why:
1) User Testing - allowing us to develop and share the WM6 rom for the wizard will open your product to a huge amount of testing. On this site, we don't just use our phones, we push them hard. We love to see the most we can get out of them. We get bored with what we have, so we load a new rom and see what it can do. 3 days later we load another. You will not find a better place on the Internet to test your roms.
Also, it will allow us to test compatibility with new and existing software. This site is already reference material for most software developers and even HTC. In our never-ending search for information about these devices we find things such as tricks to make them better, security holes, and all sorts of information that 3rd party companies can use.
All of this work is done by volunteers who, although they may gripe from time to time, feel a sense of satisfaction for doing this work. You can't buy their level of loyalty.
2) Goodwill - Allowing us to use, develop and share the WM6 rom will create a massive amount of goodwill on this site for your company. Since you are the biggest player in the game, you are currently subject to TONS of criticism everywhere you turn. People usually see you as this huge faceless corporation that wants to control people and take their money. I read the blogs of Microsoft employees and know this is really not the case. Allowing us to work on this rom openly will create goodwill that no ad campaign can buy.
3) Money - The bottom line is that you will save money. Money that might be spent on research will be saved by free research on this site. Money spent on ads to generate goodwill will be saved by the goodwill generated on this site.
I appreciate your consideration of this matter. Please let us know of your decision.
Sincerely,
texasaggie1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agreed texasaggie1 said but dont forget in all devices rom ,MS just part of 70% of rom others 30% belong to HTC,T-mobile...etc, the reason we need to cook rom in here not really problem belong to MS that belong to HTC,
MS understand HTC was first OEM used Mobile window,but MS can understand why we need to cook rom in here ? do you hear anyone cook Window XP ? MS must understand device rom is different with Window XP,MS just proved PB and AKU ,device also need driver and some of OEM program otherwide device(phone) will not working,you can see in rom kithen had OS/LOC/OEM , SO belong to MS,LOC/OEM belong to HTC,T-Mobile..etc. this is different with window XP,if today all rom made by MS than no one can said anything,but not in this case ,we in here not only help MS also help HTC,T-Mobile...etc. too, they got how many free employees to worked with them,now Apple will come out IPhone ,I dont think MS want to lose market to them,we in here 100% support to MS , I dont understand what piont they refuse us ?

BA_Flash_GOD said:
I would be very suprised if they gave this consideration, they will wait for the 'next gen' devices up to come to release it on in my opinion.
Besides we must face it, most people that are using these phones these days do not flash their device, nonetheless, know what it is.
We are the few flashing samurai that cannot live with a stock rom, and want to "juice" our hardware to get our money's worth. \m/
I will say If you live in the US now you will see that parents are buying their teenage kiddies smartphones/ppcs now for a couple reasons. 1) To ward off an appl music/video product, and of course. 2) To be able to reach them anywhere with the phone service.
It would have been funny to say that most people on this site are using/have used the wm6 leak already, so we might as well work together for free, for a learning purpose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Good reply.
I know all of this is a long shot. But it's been bugging me lately. I had to post this letter.

Flashing/Testing New OS = Good Experience
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think

BA_Flash_GOD said:
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry, please don't take this the wrong way. But this is one of the silliest ideas I have seen in a long time. Think for a moment about the support headaches from even 20% of their users playing with ROMS versus the 2-3% that do it now. And you think some of the NOOBS on here get annoying forget about regular users!!!
I think things are about perfect the way they are. A little "unofficial" help lets us hardcore users reap the benefits of upgrading with out the hassles. Trust me if ROM upgrades became more official they would kill groups like this. They would charge for the upgrades and they would want to control them like they do desktop OS upgrades. I say no thanks to that. It's like the early days of Napster, or more recently You Tube taking down tons of videos, those things were much better before they became mainstream and then they had to change.
I will say this. MS should figure out how to make the CID & SIM Lock a separate part of the rom like the radio and bootloader, make it totally separate from the Rom & Extended Rom itself. That would allow tweakers to change roms with out worrying about Locks and would make the phone companies happy too. And I am sure users that need unlocking would figure that out too

BA_Flash_GOD said:
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
anyone who wants to can use google. I seriously do not think that its neccesary to let the world know. they could know... if they wanted to. Bad idea imho.

rizzo said:
Sorry, but I had to chime in on this one, too. Maybe some people don't see it, but we ARE actively beta testing their software.
If you develop software, and want to have beta testing do any good, there needs to be some kind of order. Visiting forums to find information is chaotic at best. Sifting through page after page of hijacked threads and RTFM type questions isn't going to yield the feedback a company needs to squash the bugs out of code. If enough people complain about a particular 'feature' then it might get the company to try and replicate it in-house, but its very unlikely that you'd ever hear anything back from them.
End-users modifying their devices by flashing it with unreleased firmware it wasn't originally designed for is dangerous, and can cause a ripple effect if it's not managed. As long as the company stands by its "hey, we never said this code was finished - not to mention you're not supposed to have it" stance, it can shield them from almost ALL liability in you bricking your phone. In the mean time, hardcore folks like us will continue shoving the bleeding-edge not-ready-ware into our phones in order to tell the tales of our adventures to all that will listen - and MS will continue "leaking" their warez into the wild.
The minute Microsoft starts bending these rules for folks like us, then they are going to have to answer to THEIR customers (HTC, network providers, etc) when the nOObs start flooding their call centers for warranty-return requests.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry but I have to side with rizzo on this one. They will never officially come out and allow this because they can't. You are asking them to agree to a. Code leaking, b. Code theft, c. Software Piracy in a sense (since you have to not acquired a legal copy and have not paid licenses for it), d. Copyright infringement. What company in their right mind say yes to this and open up the flood gates? And like rizzo said allow them to be liable for consumer or partner lawsuits as well?
As much as I agree with the original heartfelt post, we say what we say for argument's sake. They have already responded numerous times by allowing this and turning a blind eye. Every now and then they complain, either because we did step on some toes or because they officially have to say this is not allowed. If they really tried, they could cause some serious legal trouble. They choose not to, for a all the reasons mentioned in the original post.
So don't ask the impossible. Don't expect windows to become an open source application or windows mobile to release official betas to the public (not for sometime anyway). Pigs just don't fly sorry.

I have to agree with Rizzo. Besides, Microsoft won't spend resources on releasing ROMs for old devices, giving them for free to users and then having no way to recover some of the investment, because the Wizard is being phased out. It doesn't make sense.
However Microsoft can open a program for betatesting their ROMs, that is completely possible. A program that involves registering every user that gets the ROM, once we agree not to ask for support and all the legal stuff. And provide the means to keep track of bug reporst, etc. But still if you want to beta test something, you want to do it on the device where it's intended to be used the final release, and I don't think our Wizards are going to get an official WM 6 upgrade.

It's a long shot
igalan said:
I have to agree with Rizzo. Besides, Microsoft won't spend resources on releasing ROMs for old devices, giving them for free to users and then having no way to recover some of the investment, because the Wizard is being phased out. It doesn't make sense.
However Microsoft can open a program for betatesting their ROMs, that is completely possible. A program that involves registering every user that gets the ROM, once we agree not to ask for support and all the legal stuff. And provide the means to keep track of bug reporst, etc. But still if you want to beta test something, you want to do it on the device where it's intended to be used the final release, and I don't think our Wizards are going to get an official WM 6 upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a long shot, but they do allow WM6 in the Universal thread. Maybe they will for us. Maybe we try again to post WM6 roms in a few weeks and see what happens??

have a whipround for wm6

to everyone:
" After looking for wm6 Alpine for long time,I started contacting some programmers that are already working on Himalaya and Blue Angel, but they told me that they can't work on Alpine because they don't have it...and they don't have time to spend for it!
So how many of you are willing to pay even 5 euros for a working wm6 rom?
Probably some programmer would be interested by this kind of deal and would start working on it!
We have a really powerfull device and would be amazing to have wm6 on it"
If a quite big group agree with me, we can then contact all programmers of other devices and bring them knowledge of our proposal

It's great idea, I vote yes.
Should stick this topic.

Yes it is a great device, it is a shame not to have WM6 on it

I think that till we won't have a group of about 100 persons nobody would care about wm6 on Alpine..
for everybody:
I am not a programmer and I won't receive any amount of money from this whipround

sure why not!

i would go for it
someone give us WM6

I'm in! Would there be any guarantees that WM6 would be working fully on it?

I'm interested.
5 euros, why not.

yeh go ahead...
it will be lovely, n definitley worth more den 5 euros.....

iam in and would pay more than 5 euros

Good idea!!!

Yesssssss.. Plssss..
PLS DO something about Wm6 on alpine...... wm6..........

I'm interested!
And if necessary, even twice ...

I like the idea too
please go ahead and willing to pay 5 euros

I'll donate € 10,-

this programmers knows how to reprogramm ROM with JTAG?.....Someone of them has a scheme about this htc motherboard to locate the JTAG??
thanks!

10 € from me.

I am in too, were do I pay? Is this a paypal job?

I am willing to give 15 for this kind of job. And I think its a shame that there are no wm6 roms exist for alpine.

it's a great idea.
but i think it isn't the best way to proceed.. if we'll wait to have enough money to pay the programmers, i think we'll wait for a looooong time.. maybe we'll never have it.
first, i suggest to know how much the programmers wants to develop the rom, then one of us (or a group) will pay all the money needed.. in this way we'll have a lot of advantages: have for sure finally wm6 on alpine..develop quickly the rom... and we'll have the possibility to sell the rom (on ebay for example) to others users around the world, just to recover our money, and with a symbolic price...
who is in contact with these programmers?

Need driver specialist who can describe Kaiser problem in detail

I've found a couple of companies that specialize in developing drivers for handheld devices, one of them is particulary interesting as it has done exactly what we're looking for before. I need someone who can talk to them and get them all the details and specs.
Here's the correspondence so far:
Me to them:
'm writing on behalf of HTC Kaiser owners. It's pretty much well
known to whoever is interested in PDAs that HTC has shipped many of its
recent devices without proper video drivers. They have a Qualcomm chipset
with (reportedly) ATI Imageon hardware acceleration in it, but not enabled
or not properly used. We've collected a good sum of money to get those
drivers developed, and I wanted to ask whether your company can help us with
this. More info (including specifics of the problem) can be found here:
http://www.htcwiki.com/page/HTC+TyTN+II+Driver+Issues and here:
www.htcclassaction.org Please let me know whether you can help us with that
and we can talk about compensation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They answered:
Thank you for contacting ALT Software.
We would be happy to discuss your requirements with you. As you may be
aware, ALT has been developing software driver solutions for our clients for
over 13 years now. Our team has extensive experience in creating system and
embedded level software. In fact ALT supports a variety of ATI chips within
our own OpenGL product line, as well as having been engaged by AMD/ATI on
other software development projects enabling new chips for the HDTV and set
top box industry.
ALT definitely has the ability to support your group; however the key
component that may be lacking is access to the hardware specifications,
registry specs for the chip, and existing driver source from ATI & Qualcomm.
Does your group have access to those specifications? Without that
information, it would make the task monumental.
Are you able to provide me with a ballpark on the budget your group has set
aside for this work?
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Thanks,
Rob
Robert ********* - Sales Manager
ALT Software Inc.
****************
****************
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've answered:
Thanks for getting back to us.
Here's the basic info on the chipset: http://www.qualcomm.com/press/releases/2006/060404_sampling_msm7200_chipset.html
There are a lot of senior developers in the community, I'm sure I can get more details on the problem and about the chipset from them. HTC also promised to release some kind of a fix for video rendering that may help you.
So far we've collected over $4000 for this, and if more is needed - I'm sure people will pile in more as they will see that someone is working on it.
Let me get some people who know drivers better than me so that we can provide better details.
In the meantime, let me know what the price range for this could be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I covered the contact info so that he doesn't get swarmed with descriptions. We need to keep this at a reasonable level. I will give his email and phone to however decides to handle this.

Wow, cool man. I'm just afraid we don't have enough specs from HTC to get the project going...

That's where the money come in. I just need someone who can talk hardware to these guys and figure out the details.

Good legwork. I would think a company like this would want to charge at least 50-100k considering the impact. But I could be WAY off(hopefully). You may want to mention to them the high profile this issue has gotten and that they could potentially come out of all of this as hero's and get a lot of good publicity which may add a lot of value instead of cash...

Yeah I was just thinking about that. We could use publicity.
So far however, they want to know the extent of the problem.. They wanna know how much work is needed (understandably). That's why I need someone who has whatever info we can possibly have about this.

bump this...important.

DarkDvr said:
Yeah I was just thinking about that. We could use publicity.
So far however, they want to know the extent of the problem.. They wanna know how much work is needed (understandably). That's why I need someone who has whatever info we can possibly have about this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your best bet is Chainfire. Have you PM'd him?

Well, they are looking for a job that's $20K+, large scale projects. I tried to persuade them with publicity and ease of the project... but they declined.
However, they recommended finding someone on scguild.com.
I'll try that today...
If anybody has any leads - let us know.

Perhaps we should consider taking this approach
Show this company figures that represent the number of units the Kaiser and its variations have shown.
Let them know we will raise money up front to get them started.
Let them know they can make money by charing fro a fix and give them the numbers to back it up.
For example:
If 1 million people (and I read here at xda that it is in fact more than that, but I DO NOT KNOW) have bought the Kaiser/Tilt/TyTN II etc etc etc and only 5% of the purchasers buy a fix at lets say $20 then they stand to make $250,000 in addition to whatever start up costs we can give them.
If we get this (or another) company to commit to doing this, and we get an upfront number they require to start the development, then we have a solid goal. We then start a campaign not only at xda, but worldwide, involve the media who has covered this story. The media entities who have covered this to date, have a great follow up story. This in turn gets the coverage needed to show them enough people will buy the fix after development.
For example, they might say "We will be willing to develop this for $XXXXX upfront if outlets exist where we can be assured there is DISTRIBUTION for the fix.
We then have a goal:
Start a world wide campaign to raise the upfront costs.
Secure distribution at every pocket pc software sales site we can contact.
They just might go for it.
That is a lot of money!
Money talks. Publicity seems like a good idea, but they want cash. Show them this is but one way of how to get it!!!!!!

mrmega said:
Perhaps we should consider taking this approach
Show this company figures that represent the number of units the Kaiser and its variations have shown.
Let them know we will raise money up front to get them started.
Let them know they can make money by charing fro a fix and give them the numbers to back it up.
For example:
If 1 million people (and I read here at xda that it is in fact more than that, but I DO NOT KNOW) have bought the Kaiser/Tilt/TyTN II etc etc etc and only 5% of the purchasers buy a fix at lets say $20 then they stand to make $250,000 in addition to whatever start up costs we can give them.
If we get this (or another) company to commit to doing this, and we get an upfront number they require to start the development, then we have a solid goal. We then start a campaign not only at xda, but worldwide, involve the media who has covered this story. The media entities who have covered this to date, have a great follow up story. This in turn gets the coverage needed to show them enough people will buy the fix after development.
For example, they might say "We will be willing to develop this for $XXXXX upfront if outlets exist where we can be assured there is DISTRIBUTION for the fix.
We then have a goal:
Start a world wide campaign to raise the upfront costs.
Secure distribution at every pocket pc software sales site we can contact.
They just might go for it.
That is a lot of money!
Money talks. Publicity seems like a good idea, but they want cash. Show them this is but one way of how to get it!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but charging for the fix? it would presumably need to be built into a rom rather than installed seperately. how could they charge for it when we would be cooking roms with it in for free to download? and if we are doing that still then thats quite a bit out of order really. I wouldnt personally like to see us lot cooking roms.

Good idea, I like it.
I'm not giving up - still searching and spamming developers who would be interested in this. If anybody else googles driver development companies - that'd make it easier and faster for us all.
I've got a good description of the problem (thanks Chainfire) which you can use to describe the problem:
"The problem with the current drivers is that they essentially just dump the completely software rendered screen on to the display memory, and that's pretty much all they do. Direct3D and OpenGL ES drivers are missing completely.
No use is made of any sort of acceleration that is provided by the ATI Imageon technology used in these Qualcomm MSM7200/MSM7500 based devices.
What we want are GDI / DDI, DirectDraw/3D, OpenGL ES and GAPI drivers that do make use of the available hardware acceleration."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

thefunkygibbon said:
but charging for the fix? it would presumably need to be built into a rom rather than installed seperately. how could they charge for it when we would be cooking roms with it in for free to download? and if we are doing that still then thats quite a bit out of order really. I wouldnt personally like to see us lot cooking roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All we need is 1 ROM with proper drivers in it. Everything else is easy.

however the key component that may be lacking is access to the hardware specifications, registry specs for the chip, and existing driver source from ATI & Qualcomm.
I'm not a pro, but isn't that just the problem??
That's just what's needed, and no one seems to have it. (Or is willing to provide)

$20 000 is not that much. Thats just $20 from 1000 people.
Imagine selling the driver for $20. Way more than 1000 people would buy it. I dont think this amount of money needs to be an obstacle.
Surur

Er...
NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER TELL THEN HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE!!!!!
Geez people!
You ALWAYS ASK A PRICE QUOTE AND THEN HAGGLE!!!!
They say, so you got 4k... we want 10k+
BUT
if you ask a price range, they dont know how much we have, and then cant ask double for it. Understand?
Time to start with a new company...

Hehe, well these guys' problem was not really the money, it was the volume as he himself said.
His words:
"Unfortunately, ALT will have to decline this scope.
You may have better luck looking to a individual contractor boards such as www.scguild.com."
But point taken. I've ran through that website and wrote to many potential graphics driver developers... we'll see what they say.

thefunkygibbon said:
but charging for the fix? it would presumably need to be built into a rom rather than installed seperately. how could they charge for it when we would be cooking roms with it in for free to download? and if we are doing that still then thats quite a bit out of order really. I wouldn't personally like to see us lot cooking roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only suggested my idea because we are talking about a 3rd party developing this for us, not HTC. I am not a developer so I don't know how the fix would be applied so please forgive my lack of understanding of how the fix needs to be applied.
If it is a driver, and the devs here would have to cook it into a rom or roms then maybe we are only paying for the driver.
All I can say is that we have a goal, and if HTC wont give give us what we need, and if none of the developers here can succeed then we we have to consider resorting to going to a 3rd party company to develop the solution.
A 3rd party company is only going to be interested in the $$$. I can only speak for myself, but if my choices are to have no drivers or to pay for them... I, like everyone else who pledged to the bounty thread will GLADLY pay to get this issue fixed.
Do I want to pay? NO! HTC should have given this to us but they did not so I don't know what else to suggest.

How about these:
http://www.pfaadtsoft.de/
Here's some stuff I found on MSDN:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms890622.aspx
I haven't bothered reading it but the title looked interesting
This section in general might hold interesting info:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa447511.aspx

undac said:
How about these:
http://www.pfaadtsoft.de/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good find, email sent.
Here's some stuff I found on MSDN:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms890622.aspx
I haven't bothered reading it but the title looked interesting
This section in general might hold interesting info:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa447511.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's to whoever understands driver better than me.

I'd be willing to chip in a good amount. Was already looking into other companies fixing the problem, but they would need a lot of information that only Qualcomm and HTC have. :\