Database Develop

Direct3D Mobile / OpenGL ES?

Does anyone know if these are properly implemented through the APIs? I am aware that the HTC home screen supposedly uses the 3D chip, but nowhere says how.
If it is properly implemented it would be very interesting for developers and gamers alike.

Judging by peoples experiences with DirectDraw at least that API is not accelerated. OpenGL ES is though and Direct3D is probably mapped to Open GL ES calls and would also be accelerated (with some form of, probably slight, performance penalty).
There are two threads in this subforum that are asking for benchmark results from the Diamond but so far none of the current owners seem interested in providing anything.

ill do a benchmark if its easy to do, what program do i use?

jkr284 said:
ill do a benchmark if its easy to do, what program do i use?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/products/benchmark/??en
http://int13.net/gxmark.htm
http://classic.pocketgear.com/software_detail.asp?id=8287
As far as easy goes you just run the application basically.

Thanks
Ive been trying to run a full spb test on the diamond at default settings and on battery power. It didnt like the word test (seemed to stick at about 90% of opening the alice word doc then looped forever!) and also didnt like the pocket internet explorer test (well it opened opera browser for the test, and didnt like it for some reason!), just running it now with buit in application tests disabled.

Ok First Heres the SPB Benchmark results with "Built in Applications Test" Disabled:
- <benchmark-results>
- <info>
<platform-name>HTC Touch Diamond P3700</platform-name>
<device-name>HTC Diamond</device-name>
<start-date>06.05.2008</start-date>
</info>
- <main-tests>
<fs-largefilewrite>566.700000</fs-largefilewrite>
<fs-largefileread>107.900000</fs-largefileread>
<fs-largefilecopy>679.800000</fs-largefilecopy>
<fs-manyfileswrite>5897.500000</fs-manyfileswrite>
<fs-manyfilesread>429.300000</fs-manyfilesread>
<fs-manyfilescopy>4549.900000</fs-manyfilescopy>
<fs-dirlisting>1334.200000</fs-dirlisting>
<fs-db>756.900000</fs-db>
<grf-ddb>6.670000</grf-ddb>
<grf-dib>25.095000</grf-dib>
<grf-gapi>5.390000</grf-gapi>
<misc-zip>2660.000000</misc-zip>
<misc-jpeg>417.600000</misc-jpeg>
<misc-arkaball>8.140500</misc-arkaball>
<misc-mflops>3578.800000</misc-mflops>
<misc-mops>1001.700000</misc-mops>
<misc-mwips>7229.000000</misc-mwips>
<misc-memcpy>8.449000</misc-memcpy>
</main-tests>
</benchmark-results>

GXMark produced a white screen! i had to reset the device! No Idea whats up there!
Pocket Pc Mark wouldnt do a run on the graphics test, it got to 6/8 test and then locked, had to reset again, sorry!

Thanks for your efforts!
The SPB results are actually very poor unfortunately. Almost too poor, did you have lots of stuff running in the background or anything like that?
Apart from the pure CPU tests (including decompressing a JPEG and a ZIP file which both are very CPU bound as well) both filesystem operations and graphics operations are a lot lower (or at best equal in some cases) to what you would see on a Kaiser for an example..
I think at least we can say with certainty that the GAPI and GDI/DDI drivers are not any better than on the Kaiser, very minor boost due to faster memory and CPU sped can possibly be achieved but that's nothing compared to real hardware acceleration.
I really do hope that the next version of Windows Mobile and the included APIs andate some sort of all around graphics acceleration Video hardware acceleration seems to much like a tack on in current WM and the Diamond seems to be the ultimate proof of that.

the only things running are the default progs in the background like touchflo etc. something has been improved as ackys breakout and bejeweled 2 run beautifully in vga aswell, they ran like **** on my touch cruise (slowdown and stutters) in reality this phone ****s all over the cruise performance wise in games and general use.
One thing that was better on the cruise is the 3g reception which i could get inside my house but not with the diamond.
Tomtom6 displays real nice in vga also but takes a longer time plotting routes, much longer!

Try a psx emulator and see if it runs :]

"I really do hope that the next version of Windows Mobile and the included APIs andate some sort of all around graphics acceleration Video hardware acceleration seems to much like a tack on in current WM and the Diamond seems to be the ultimate proof of that."
it would still require drivers even if ms provided them like in normal windows
doubt ms would pay the coins htc dident

Can anyone with a Diamond please run the Futuremark benchmark as it does an open gl test as well as 2d and more, thanks
http://www.futuremark.com/download/spmarkjavajsr184/

I downloaded the suite (clicked all the tests)
Ran it and heres what i got:
http://service.futuremark.com/orbmobile/projectdetails_spmarkjavaweb.jsp?projectId=23157&projectType=20
Looks like it didnt want to do the 3d test......

This is discouraging. Most of the tests don't run, and those that run give really low results? Sounds familiar. I really don't want this to be yet another great hardware with lackluster software support...

Rudegar said:
it would still require drivers even if ms provided them like in normal windows
doubt ms would pay the coins htc dident
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes of course it would need drivers
but current Windows Mobile seems to be built with the assumption that there will be no specialized graphics hardware (so everything is build to run in software)
desktop windows is built on the assumption that there will be hardware acceleratio for 3D, video playback and even the GUI, I'm hoping windows mobile 7 sports a similiar approach, thus "forcing" manufacturers who want to ship even baseline WM devices to support their hardware with graphics drivers
also something with the underlying framework in windows mobile seems off when it comes to hw accelerated graphics, as I mentioned earlier it feels like a tack on that wasn't planned in the first place
thus even when we have devices with hardware and drivers it still not universally applicable (check the diamond for a perfect example, it has some level of hardware acceleration but it's not general and system wide for whatever reason)
so what I am hoping for is a standardized, general system wide assumption that future WinMo will have graphics hardware just the same as any PC today has some level of hardware acceleration (in effect making it close to impossible for companies like HTC to ship devices with hardware but without drivers)

jkr284 said:
I downloaded the suite (clicked all the tests)
Ran it and heres what i got:
http://service.futuremark.com/orbmo...arkjavaweb.jsp?projectId=23157&projectType=20
Looks like it didnt want to do the 3d test......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for running the test

Radeon123 said:
Thanks for running the test
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Pleasure!
To everyone worrying about gaming and movie performance i wouldnt worry at all,
The latest coreplayer has no lag in high quality films
Ive tried loads of astraware native vga games and they run flawlessly, with soe tweaking as shown on other threads the interface is now ery quick. I wouldnt bother stressing yourselves over the performance as its stellar for the size of the device.

jkr284 said:
My Pleasure!
To everyone worrying about gaming and movie performance i wouldnt worry at all,
The latest coreplayer has no lag in high quality films
Ive tried loads of astraware native vga games and they run flawlessly, with soe tweaking as shown on other threads the interface is now ery quick. I wouldnt bother stressing yourselves over the performance as its stellar for the size of the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
640x480 movies? (Coreplayer played those fine up until the latest Kaiser ROM)
3D games or regular 2d ones? (basically all astraware games run just fine on my tytn ii for an example)
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, it just seems as if the Diamond is basically missing the performance some of us thought it to have. (Though that's not to say that the performance is poor)

UPDATE ON CALL OF DUTY: Works absolutely awesome, NOT using minimal settings, i was able to play pretty well. NOTE: Tytn2 and Touch Cruise was NOT able to play due to heavy lag even with minimal settings. Game was perfectly fine, with except with just a small little, not lag, but looks like the rendering was a bit slow as i looked around, when i used hardkeys and stylus at the same time. NOTE: ALL pdas lag in gaming when using hardkeys and joystick at the same time. However, it was minimal, and call of duty was enjoyable to say the least. SO yes, it DOES have graphic accelerators. Proper benchmarks will be done when i have proper time.
UPDATE. SPB benchmark seems to hang. cant run it. hangs at testing word document.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/711698

Baronic said:
UPDATE ON CALL OF DUTY: Works absolutely awesome, NOT using minimal settings, i was able to play pretty well. NOTE: Tytn2 and Touch Cruise was NOT able to play due to heavy lag even with minimal settings. Game was perfectly fine, with except with just a small little, not lag, but looks like the rendering was a bit slow as i looked around, when i used hardkeys and stylus at the same time. NOTE: ALL pdas lag in gaming when using hardkeys and joystick at the same time. However, it was minimal, and call of duty was enjoyable to say the least. SO yes, it DOES have graphic accelerators. Proper benchmarks will be done when i have proper time.
UPDATE. SPB benchmark seems to hang. cant run it. hangs at testing word document.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/711698
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to see a youtube video of COD on the diamond. Can you please post. I would really appreciate it.

Aspyr games on TyTn II with HW ACCEL

Hi guys,
I've got Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2 on my TyTn II and it's really choppy and unplayable. Yeah I know about how it lacks proper hardware drivers. I've installed the latest video drivers from the htcclassaction site and ran all the tests and the gl benchmarking tool as well and everything checks out.
My question is, how do I (if I can) enable this hardware acceleration in THPS2? If theres no way to enable it in that game, are there any apps at the moment that support hardware acceleration?
Thanks,
Lewis

If you go back to the store where you bought it online you will realize there are two exes, one for SW acceleration and one for HW.
The HW one seems to check for specific video devices though so no idea if it works with the Kaiser.

I dont think 3D drivers exist on Diamond or TouchPro

Just because opengl es and D3DM work doesnt mean that the GPU is doing the work. I think all we have here is a software rasterizer that is using the CPU. There is no evidence that i am aware of that proves the graphics chip is active. Here is the evidence i collected that shows how the graphics are rendered.
1. In Touchflo 3d,if you go to the settings tab,and click about, there is a list of all the technology used to develop TF3D. Where it says opengl, there is a copyright 2004 Hans-Martin Will. Hans-Martin Will started the vincent3d opensource opengl es project, which is a SOFTWARE implementation. Basically what this means is,Touchflo 3d uses this graphics library to render graphics.
2.The D3Dmobile driver is only a wrapper around opengl ES. Why would we need a wrapper for D3DM if hardware drivers were present? What this means is that D3Dm is also rendered by software only. Notice how DirectDraw is also slow? Thats because there are no drivers.It wouldnt make sense for drivers to allow 3d acceleration only without support for 2d.
3.Samsung Omnia drivers work on the Diamond/Raphael. Huh? These two devices dont even have the same graphics chip. How can a driver for one graphics chip work on a completely different brand/model/type of graphics chip? It cant. The only explanation there could be is that the omnia driver is also a software rasterizer and thats why it works with the htc devices.

that sucks, because it makes sense..

most interesting...
i smell conspiracy...

so true.......................................

Play a very high quality MP4 (h.264) in software mode (with coreplayer for an example) and watch your diamond completely choke, then launch the same video with windows media player and see the difference!
That's one proof of hardware acceleration at least...
Also I highly doubt a game like Xtract would run as great as it does on the Diamond without any hardware acceleration, the graphics and framerate is way to good for the cpu to handle in only software mode, even if it was just drivers.

Aha, that is perhaps why iGo runs way better on my old tek S200 than on my fresh, new touch diamond.

mayby if you read the posts & topics
then you would see there is a 3d driver
just use de diamond ati 3d driver
my diamond goes from 0.2 fps in the hologram program to an stable 25 fps
Thats a hole inprovement
Ps sorry for my bad english
and i also included the driver in the attachment
Greetings Nossie

Hm, where did you find that? It didn't notice any differnce in the slowness of IGO really..Why isn't that installed by default?

disagree...
test the software and hardware versions of COD 2, THPS 2 and NFS Undercover. See the difference: 3D acceleration not only improves the texture and graphics in general, but the framerate. I think if it was just some kind of emulation 3d, improved graphics would worsen the framerate, but what you see is an increase in FPS! Therefore, I believe there is actually hardware acceleration.

HW Accelerated Quake3 Hack

Hey everyone!
I got a bit bored at work today, so I hacked the Windows CE Quake3 port (http://code.google.com/p/q3ce/) so that it's playable with the new accelerated 3d drivers (http://www.htcclassaction.org/).
Someone has probably done this before, but I couldn't find anything on the forums, so I thought I'd might as well release it. I basically just changed the import segment so that the (seemingly) unused import of "glClipPlanex", which isn't included in the system-provided libGLES_CM.dll, got changed to the equally-long string "glMatrixMode". This allows the game to run, and while it's still pretty slow, it's much faster than the software renderer.
To run q3ce in hardware 3d, simply remove the libGLES_CM.dll file in your q3ce directory, and run q3ce.exe.
Cheers!

When I download the code from Google, the zip file errors when trying to unpack it. Did you have to do anything out of the ordinary to get it to work?
***EDIT
Nevermind, I'm a sooper noob.

i get "the file q3ce cannot be opened eather it is not signed with a trusted cert or one of its componets can not be found. i am useing the ommina driver.

What version of Quake 3 do I need to buy? Quake III Arena?

Yes, you need Quake 3 Arena to run the game. The q3ce package contains instructions on how to convert and install the game to your windows mobile.
@josefcrist:
Does the original q3ce executable work if you follow the instructions on how to run it without hardware acceleration? I might have to make a special fix for the omnia driver, it probably looks a bit different... Give me a few hours and I'll try getting it to work with that driver. Didn't even know it existed

Thank you ever so much. Will try this on my Diamond (which uses the same chipset albeit with more memory assigned to it).
EDIT: Strange...after the bootconsole part, it just goes back to the homescreen (I disabled TF3D because Q3ce is a huge mem. hog).
Anyway, I'm very grateful for your effort, and I'm sure many Diam users would be.

@josefcrist:
Hmm, it looks like the omnia drivers is only a D3D driver, while Quake 3 uses OpenGL... So with both the HTCCA driver AND the Omnia driver installed you can use OpenGL ES applications, while still having the better D3D performance that the Omnia driver seems to promise.
@nuuke1:
Yeah, I really want one of those, the much higher resolution display is just so sexy! If you can send me all the DLL files (could be one or two) called libgles in your Windows directory on the diamond, I'll see what I can do about it.

erim said:
@josefcrist:
Hmm, it looks like the omnia drivers is only a D3D driver, while Quake 3 uses OpenGL... So with both the HTCCA driver AND the Omnia driver installed you can use OpenGL ES applications, while still having the better D3D performance that the Omnia driver seems to promise.
@nuuke1:
Yeah, I really want one of those, the much higher resolution display is just so sexy! If you can send me all the DLL files (could be one or two) called libgles in your Windows directory on the diamond, I'll see what I can do about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It looks sexy alright, with the VGA too, but I'd wait for some of HTCs newer announcements in about 20 days at the MWC09, and since HTC has partnered with nVidia, we may even see Tegra *faints on the spot out of excitement*.
Sure thing with the dlls .
EDIT: Here we go. Hmm, I think one of the libgles files is hidden, the cm one.

Hmm, this is a bit odd... The original q3ce.exe seems to be linked to exactly your libgles_cl.dll. All the imports line up perfectly. Could you try copying your ligbles_cl.dll to the q3ce dir, and rename it to libgles_cm.dll?
It could also be worth to try the same with the libgles_mn.dll, as they both seem like good candidates. Good luck!

Whoops I forgot to mention that Q3ce already works with h/w acceleration but only 7 or 8 fps. It must be able to work better than that, methinks.
Anyhow just trying what you said (with original Q3ce.exe, other one doesn't work this time as well) AND...
OK the FPS is on average around 9/10 fps hehe. It's an improvement though!
EDIT: Is it possible to make it play in QVGA, as it's currently set to play at the resolution of that particular device. That would be sterling!

I get around that framerate too... There's definitely room for improvements. GLBenchmark runs pretty fast, so one would think that quake 3 would too...
I'll see if I can get q3ce to compile. With a bit of luck I might be able to do some optimizations and fixes. Would be fun to have a more playable q3 port for these phones.

Whatever happened to getting Quake 3 Arena to work smoothly?

well depends on what you call smooth, i can run quake 3 at about 9-15 fps, with customized config and a special ram setup+exe that i found for the dellaxim and surprisingly it worked for the kaiser, you do need a mix of drivers and a special rom if you will, almost none of the newer roms works with the d3d drivers

I would just give up on trying to get Quake 3 running on the Kaiser. The Kaiser obviously isn't as powerful as advertised, and Quake 3 is never gonna be playable.
For this reason I'm getting a nokia n82 (it's like a copy of the N95 except with xenon flash, better camera, candybar style). It'l play quake 3 at about 30fps with full graphics and detail. I'll also be able to play SNES and GBA. I really can't wait to get it!

mikeeey said:
For this reason I'm getting a nokia n82 (it's like a copy of the N95 except with xenon flash, better camera, candybar style). It'l play quake 3 at about 30fps with full graphics and detail. I'll also be able to play SNES and GBA. I really can't wait to get it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
some need a gps device with pda functions and a phone.. others, a gaming machine. want the first? get an winmo! want games? get an iphone dude

Does anyone have a working copy of everything needed to get Quake 3 working? Minus the Quake 3 files itself of course. Instructions on how to get .wad files there would be great too.
Some reason, I tried Quake3, but it just closes when it tries to start up.

I finally got Quake3 working with 3D acceleration. These damn applications don't make it easy getting it working. The main problem was getting the .pk3 file correctly made.
Anyway, it runs at 4-5 fps, and textures are missing. Mainly, the textures on the weapons.
Quake 3 was ported finally on the Android, and I'm going to give it a try on the Kaiser. Going to see which is better, Quake 3 for WinMO or Android. So far, nearly everything I run on Android is faster, such as emulators for Nes, Genesis, and SNES.

I know this is my third post, but I got Quake 3 working on the Android running on the Kaiser. I have a post about it, with a video showing it working.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5791339#post5791339

[Q] Any Chance of Windows Phone 7 Here???

Hi does anyone think there will be a chance that windows phone 7 can be ported onto the HTC Diamond, I've just seen the first look videos for the 3 new win 7 phones and the new OS looks awesome
would appreciate an answer
thanks

no i think.....because wp7 requires direct 3d hardware accelerated gpu and diamond have an opengl es 1.1 hardware accelerated gpu....diamond can run d3d apps or games but the driver is a translator from d3d code to opengl code....

but if the driver is translating the code, can't similar be done to wp7, then the graphics might work but it would be slightly slow

yes the graphics will be very slow......i think so maybe...hope i'm miss!