Simple enough: don't mention anything about warranties. Stop telling people that rooting will invalidate warranties, in the specific sense, because that serves nobody except the lawyers for the carriers.
By specifically and directly mentioning the warranty, you are completely absolving the carriers from honoring it because you are passing the liability directly to the person running the mod.
Instead, simply state that "if you do this, there could be negative consequences, up to and including total device failure. The author is in no way, shape, or form responsible for your actions."
If an unforeseen hardware glitch occurs, I have invalidated any claim to the warranty because the root method I used specifically and directly mentioned the warranty policy in question. There is no reason under the sun that we should be giving carriers and vendors a way out of honoring their contracts when they are legitimately responsible for hardware or other failure.
If you brick your device by doing something stupid, then you should pay the price. If the battery randomly blows up, though, the vendor should pay for damages and replacement, regardless of whether your device is rooted. The burden of proof should be on the carrier. If you perform an act that explicitly states that you're voiding your warranty, though, then they don't have to work hard at all to deny liability.
All I'm saying is that we should make them bend over backwards before letting them get away with anything. Even if they always end up winning, let's not hand it to them on a platter.
So please, stop mentioning warranties in mods, hacks, and tips!
That post voided your warranty.
Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk
He has a point and a good one at that.
By mentioning warranties and them being void happens without the necessity of the carries to prove it was damaged by modded software.
+1
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
Yeah we buy these devices and come here to break them appart to enhance them, simple. If we were worried about it we'd be like the other 90% of the general public who are oblivious to most things.
-smc
I don't understand what's your point. Altering the software that is certified to run on your device voids your warranty. This is a fact made clear by manufacturer. It is not much different than altering the engine of a car for example.
Posts mentioning "this will void your warranty" are just a precaution to anyone attempting to use it, so people are aware of the consequences. Of course it must be mentioned. Just like the signs "do not eat" on silicagel packs that often come in electronic equipment packages. Or signs on plastic bags saying they are not toys.
Sent from my XT860 using Tapatalk
I have to agree that leaving the warning out is a bad idea. The warning is mostly about the fact that by modifying the software you're no longer using manufacturer or carrier approved software which is does void the warranty and also violates the carrier terms of service. There are always going to be first timers trying to follow rooting and mod directions, and its best for them to know the consequences if things go wrong and they brick, etc.
I think everyone goes a little over the top about the whole 'void your warranty' bit. Look, you can't just 'void your warranty', it doesn't work that way.
There's a thing called the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act that protects consumers and holds manufacturers responsible for honoring their warranties.
By simply rooting your phone, you're not going to 'void' any warranty. The only way you can 'void' your warranty is if you do something that causes your phone to fail, that failure isn't covered. So if you brick your phone because you're not worthy of the power of root, it's not going to be covered under warranty - just like if you smash your phone into the pavement it's not covered.
But regardless if your phone is rooted and ROMed to the MAXXX or totally stock and covered in unicorn stickers, if the screen starts bugging out because of a faulty connector or the like, it is still covered under warranty. They have to show that your actions caused the failure, the 'burden of proof' is on them.
Honestly though, I've never had a problem with warranty claims through VZW (and I've had many) - as long as you didn't get it wet, they will usually give you a refurbed device with little fuss.
So no, everyone who says 'doing X will void your warranty' is wrong. It will only 'void' your warranty if you **** it up and break something.
I agree that something has to be mentioned. The community has made this stuff very simple for those who know not what they are doing. Alot of them probably have no clue it would void their warranty. Telling them that the said action will void their warranty is probably a bit much but maybe pointing them to their manufacturers warranty for them to decide if the said action is allowable would be much better.
If you engage in an activity that explicitly states you're going to void your warranty, you're giving your assent to the warranty being voided.
I could make an app for the marketplace that simply sat on your phone, called "The warranty breaker!" and include in its ToS, in big blazing letters, an agreement to the effect of:
"If you install this app, you are voiding your warranty with your carrier."
By specifically mentioning it, there is now a legal basis for them to claim we willingly cancelled a warranty. It doesn't have to violate the terms of the warranty - contracts are two way agreements.
I'm not saying not to warn people. I'm saying, leave the warranty out of it. Something like " Hey, this procedure could have major negative consequences. Know what you're doing - the author/creator of this procedure is not responsible for your mistakes or misuse."
The warranty is something between me and the carrier, not something anyone on XDA should ever worry about. There's simply no need to mention it as part of a modding process.
limaxray said:
I think everyone goes a little over the top about the whole 'void your warranty' bit. Look, you can't just 'void your warranty', it doesn't work that way.
There's a thing called the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act that protects consumers and holds manufacturers responsible for honoring their warranties.
By simply rooting your phone, you're not going to 'void' any warranty. The only way you can 'void' your warranty is if you do something that causes your phone to fail, that failure isn't covered. So if you brick your phone because you're not worthy of the power of root, it's not going to be covered under warranty - just like if you smash your phone into the pavement it's not covered.
But regardless if your phone is rooted and ROMed to the MAXXX or totally stock and covered in unicorn stickers, if the screen starts bugging out because of a faulty connector or the like, it is still covered under warranty. They have to show that your actions caused the failure, the 'burden of proof' is on them.
Honestly though, I've never had a problem with warranty claims through VZW (and I've had many) - as long as you didn't get it wet, they will usually give you a refurbed device with little fuss.
So no, everyone who says 'doing X will void your warranty' is wrong. It will only 'void' your warranty if you **** it up and break something.
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This post was awesome down to the last punctuation mark ಠ_ಠ
If I brick my phone messing with the root I plan on dropping it and letting it sit in a rain puddle and sending it back to verizon asap. Do they really not send you a new phone if you brick it messing with the root?
If their techs bother to look at why, then yeah, by rooting or otherwise messing with it, they could tell you to take a flying leap.
Fortunately, most of the time, nobody on the other side bothers with why a device fails, and you'll just get one back.
JRowe47 said:
If their techs bother to look at why, then yeah, by rooting or otherwise messing with it, they could tell you to take a flying leap.
Fortunately, most of the time, nobody on the other side bothers with why a device fails, and you'll just get one back.
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I was wondering if they were like Microsoft was with 360's, lol.. I got 3 replaced for cd drive failures but said it was RROD.
Related
Hey guys,
I examined the warranty a bit closer today and I can't find anything that would indicate that rooting voids your warranty.
First of all, take a gander for yourself here.
Notice the warranty only covers the standard "defects in workmanship or material" and that in several places they specifically state that the warranty only covers the hardware. In on paragraph, they state specifically that it doesn't cover the software.
The have the standard disclaimers about damage or malfunctions caused by abuse, neglect, Vogon poetry, etc. not being covered, but nowhere does it say that modifying or configuring your NC automatically voids your warranty. If such modifications cause the damage or malfunction, that's a different story.
So they could say that overclocking your CPU voids your warranty but only if it's the CPU that is damaged, however. If you overclock your CPU, they would have a hard time demonstrating that that was the reason why you have 18 dead pixels.
Then again B&N is a big corporation with nearly unlimited resources and you might lose if it ever came down to a fight. But there are a number of laws in place to protect us, the little guys. It also would be worthwhile to investigate whether your state has extra automatic warranty coverages.
That said, you'd probably be safe to factory reset your NC before trying to return it or get it serviced under warranty - especially since you won't get that specific unit back.
Or you could shell out the $55 for the 2-year extended warranty that covers everything.
All Android users were or are wondering whether flashing their device will void the warranties of their devices.
This concerns European customers (EU).
In short :
The FSFE (Free Software Foundation Europe), has concluded that rooting and flashing our devices don't void their warranties. Manufacturers can't refuse to repair a device because modifying or changing system software is not a sufficient reason to void the "statutory warranty". The seller has to prove that the defect is caused by user's actions before completelly voiding the warranty. Unless that, the standard 2 years of the warranty is still valid. So the Directive 1999/44/CE dictates1 protects consummers even if they have rooted and flashed their system in order to use custom ROMs.
FSFE Legal team has analysed this issue and the answer, if the consumer bought it inside the EU, is no.
The consumer does not loose the obligatory 2-year warranty on the device just because the device is flashed.
"A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it to stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software".
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Full article :
Directive 1999/44/CE dictates1 that any object meeting certain criteria (incl. telephones, computers, routers etc.) that is sold to a consumer2. inside the European Union, has to carry a warranty from the seller that the device will meet the quality that you would expect for such a device for a period of 2 years.
A telephone is an example of such a device and is an object that comprises many parts, from the case to the screen to the radio, to a mini-computer, to the battery, to the software that runs it. If any of these parts3 stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent — the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). If the seller has any expenses for returning it to the manufacturer, this is not your problem as a consumer.
If your device becomes defective in the first 6 months, it is presumed that the defect was there all along, so you should not need to prove anything.
If your device becomes defective after the first 6 months, but before 2 years run out, you are still covered. The difference is only that if the defect arises now, the seller can claim that the defect was caused by some action that was triggered by non-normal use of the device4. But in order to avoid needing to repair or replace your device, the seller has to prove that your action caused5 the defect. It is generally recognised by courts that unless there is a sign of abuse of the device, the defect is there because the device was faulty from the beginning. That is just common sense, after all.
So, we finally come to the question of rooting, flashing and changing the software. Unless the seller can prove that modifying the software, rooting your device or flashing it with some other OS or firmware was the cause for the defect, you are still covered for defects during those 2 years. A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software — e.g. overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker.
Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty. You have to understand that in EU we have a “statutory warranty”, which is compulsory that the seller must offer by law (Directive 1999/44/CE, §7.1) and a “voluntary warranty” which the seller or manufacturer can, but does not need to, offer as an additional service to the consumer. Usually the “voluntary warranty” covers a longer period of time or additional accidents not covered by law6. If though the seller, the manufacturer or anyone else offers a “voluntary warranty”, he is bound to it as well!
So, even if, by any chance your “voluntary warranty” got voided, by European law, you should still have the 2 year “compulsory warranty” as it is described in the Directive and which is the topic of this article.
In case the seller refuses your right to repair or replace the device, you can sue him in a civil litigation and can report the incident to the national authority. In many European countries such action does not even require hiring a lawyer and is most of the time ensured by consumers associations.
The warranty under this Directive is only applicable inside the European Union and only if you bought the device as a consumer.
[1] EU member states must have by now imported the Directive 1999/44/CE into their national laws. So you should quote also your local law on that topic.
[2] A consumer is a natural person who acts for their own private purposes and not as a professional. .
[3] Batteries can be exempt of this and usually hold only 6 months warranty.
[4] E.g. a defect power button could be caused by spreading marmalade in it or hooking it onto a robot that would continuously press the button every second 24/7 — of course that is not normal or intended use.
[5] Note that correlation is not causation — the defect has to be proven to be caused by your action, not just correlate with it.
[6] E.g. if a device manufacturer guarantees the phone is water- and shock-proof or a car manufacturer offers 7 years of warranty against rust.
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Source, article
Reference : EUR-Lex
Thank you, good info.
So if they refuse, should I print this and give it to them?
To be safe, I flashed and rooted it after my warranty expired.
It'll take time for LG to honour the warranty worldwide.
Welcome locked bootloaders.
In Italy LG warranty doesn't get voided by rooting and custom Rom installation.
I don't know why in other countries it's not the same...
Anyway thank you for sharing this information!
Sent from my LG-P970 using xda app-developers app
Navios92 said:
So if they refuse, should I print this and give it to them?
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yeah you might print the directive itself
the bad side of all of that, is that this situation only applies in Europe for now. I live in France, here the consummers are well protected already. For other countries, you can refer to UE and its related laws.
Visit EUR-Lex for more infos
Many thanks for this :victory:
Cool
Sent from my LG-P970 using xda app-developers app
Francais ? Nikel.
It's so good to read this. Every time i visit LG C. I Flash Official Rom..
Sent from my LG-P970 using xda premium
thank's for your info my bro, matur nuwun sanget
Anyway we can always unroot, I did this when I asked for screen replacement.
The problem would be with people who bricked their USB and can't unroot.
Technically it's also not allowed to lock the bootloader without giving a way of unlocking it since it restrict the software that the user can use on his phone, but theres still lots of phones with locked bootloaders with no way of unlocking it.
Also it's really easy to tell someone bringing their phone into repair that their phone is broken because they did something while having root permissions if the person involved doesn't know electronics so well. It's still a step in a better direction.
I have question from starter!
If i instal some custom rom with overclocked cpu?
And this,just for euro?
And asia?
Sent from my LG-P970 using Tapatalk 2
Night.Sky said:
I have question from starter!
And this,just for euro?
And asia?
Sent from my LG-P970 using Tapatalk 2
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I'm not sure, but if you can send your device in a center located inside EU, it might pass. But since these laws concern european customers, I don't think so...
If i instal some custom rom with overclocked cpu?
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The seller has to prove that the defect is caused by user's actions...
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Great info! Thanks for that.
Not so sure
Not entirely sure this is something to cheer too much about.
It´s nice and all but we know flashing the wrong firmware can brick your phone. I´m not sure manufacturers should be responsible for that and this might encourage them to make it really tough to root the things in the first place.
ScoopyDoopy said:
Not entirely sure this is something to cheer too much about.
It´s nice and all but we know flashing the wrong firmware can brick your phone. I´m not sure manufacturers should be responsible for that and this might encourage them to make it really tough to root the things in the first place.
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flashing is not forbidden, but it's not about that. if a flash process fails, you can consider that fact as a defect since this may be a hardware issue (even if it's software, it should not happen).
it's like formatting a hard disk drive that would fail. so yeah, the manufacturer is responsible and must apply the warranty.
Ilko said:
flashing is not forbidden, but it's not about that. if a flash process fails, you can consider that fact as a defect since this may be a hardware issue (even if it's software, it should not happen).
it's like formatting a hard disk drive that would fail. so yeah, the manufacturer is responsible and must apply the warranty.
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Flashing wrong firmware can damage the phone. If the bootloader tries to initialize the phone with a higher voltage or clock and it stops somewhere in the process it stays with that clock speed and voltage until the phone is switched off again provided it doesn't crash before setting clock and voltages.
If it failed because of hardware then doesn't matter what software you had on it. Then your right, but wrong firmware can damage your phone. Remember the tools thats used for flashing isn't meant for us, it's for software developers or service centers and we shouldn't have access to it. The tools that are meant for us can't flash wrong firmware without there being wrong firmware on it in the first place so if you flash the wrong firmware then it's your fault and thats not hard to prove that theres wrong firmware on it or that the CPU was damaged due to wrong clock or voltage.
Yes this will lead to manufacturers making it harder to root and flash or they will (like HTC) allow unlocking the bootloader through them and explicitly voiding your warranty.
They can have a license agreement when the firmware is run fresh that you have to accept. Which might contain this sneaky line somewhere in small print.
"Running any software on the device that we don't approve voids your warrenty." (And I'm pretty sure that will include rooting software)
xonar_ said:
Flashing wrong firmware can damage the phone. If the bootloader tries to initialize the phone with a higher voltage or clock and it stops somewhere in the process it stays with that clock speed and voltage until the phone is switched off again provided it doesn't crash before setting clock and voltages.
If it failed because of hardware then doesn't matter what software you had on it. Then your right, but wrong firmware can damage your phone. Remember the tools thats used for flashing isn't meant for us, it's for software developers or service centers and we shouldn't have access to it. The tools that are meant for us can't flash wrong firmware without there being wrong firmware on it in the first place so if you flash the wrong firmware then it's your fault and thats not hard to prove that theres wrong firmware on it or that the CPU was damaged due to wrong clock or voltage.
Yes this will lead to manufacturers making it harder to root and flash or they will (like HTC) allow unlocking the bootloader through them and explicitly voiding your warranty.
They can have a license agreement when the firmware is run fresh that you have to accept. Which might contain this sneaky line somewhere in small print.
"Running any software on the device that we don't approve voids your warrenty." (And I'm pretty sure that will include rooting software)
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yes, but if such programs are leaked, it's their problem, not ours. there is no any law or rule that explicitly forbid software modification. It's open source... and the european directive protects us. I'll even say, that the ability of flashing wrong firmware could be considered as a default. This should not be possible.
people must understand that rooting and flashing are only restricted, not forbidden. I think they simply can't do that legally.
I bought a HTC One on April.
I am a student so this is important to me:
Cost: 660€ with urBeats headset. Paid 60€ and then I must pay 25€ each month for 2 years. Also 20€ per month for 2 years for Internet + unlimited calls in germany -> 45€/month
K.
On May I unlocked Bootloader. Then put a recovery. Then flashed a custom ROM.
I didn't like it so I flashed the original ROM back within 1-2 days
Ok.
Then 1 week ago the ONE died. It had original ROM on it and ofc unrooted.
Today they phoned me. Due to custom ROMS: No warranty.
I can pay 30€ to get the phone back unrepaired or they suggest me a amount of € I must pay to repair. This suggestion should be at my home in 1-2 days.
Nice eh? Never HTC for me.. No warranty with original ROM, yay!
where did you send it in for repair?
it is right that HTC behaves very rude if it comes to such topics, honestly i would have discussed with them, that in german law they have the need to proof that your custom rom/kernel... damaged the phone a way it would void the warranty (that is also the reason the HTC disclaimer has to say, that unlocking MAY void the warranty ...)
but in germany i never would send a phone to the manufacturer because the shop itself has to deliver a 2 year warranty. for example @ t-mobile store they remove all that can be removed (back cover, sd card if existant), send it in for repair and 24 hours later you already get your spare phone, your phone will not get analyzed until you try to switch it the third time, then they will make a test certificate.
Or did you really send it to O² and they said this to you? then i really would discuss this with the hotline and threaten them that you will change the carrier if they won´t behave like every other carrier ...
hlenforcer said:
where did you send it in for repair?
it is right that HTC behaves very rude if it comes to such topics, honestly i would have discussed with them, that in german law they have the need to proof that your custom rom/kernel... damaged the phone a way it would void the warranty (that is also the reason the HTC disclaimer has to say, that unlocking MAY void the warranty ...)
but in germany i never would send a phone to the manufacturer because the shop itself has to deliver a 2 year warranty. for example @ t-mobile store they remove all that can be removed (back cover, sd card if existant), send it in for repair and 24 hours later you already get your spare phone, your phone will not get analyzed until you try to switch it the third time, then they will make a test certificate.
Or did you really send it to O² and they said this to you? then i really would discuss this with the hotline and threaten them that you will change the carrier if they won´t behave like every other carrier ...
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I sent it to Arvato with some paper like warranty and stuff which o2 gave me to print and such...
I will go to o2 tomorrow and maybe I can get them giving me a new one...
Now I must use the freaking HTC wildfire.......
mmh if o² generally outsourced its repair service to this company and you signed this with your phone contract, then there would be nothing you can do about it besides to discuss german law with arvato ... if this is the case i just got a new reason to keep my more expansive t-mobile contract
edit: just checked it, they indeed outsourced their repairs to arvato and like i read it is the worst repair service available, so you have to discuss it with them
i only can give you the advice to dscuss the terms of german law regarding warranty and device modification and whish you good luck.
i read that it may help to request the boss if your concerns will be ignored (like it seems to happen more than often at this company ...)
uZzY94 said:
I bought a HTC One on April.
I am a student so this is important to me:
Cost: 660€ with urBeats headset. Paid 60€ and then I must pay 25€ each month for 2 years. Also 20€ per month for 2 years for Internet + unlimited calls in germany -> 45€/month
K.
On May I unlocked Bootloader. Then put a recovery. Then flashed a custom ROM.
I didn't like it so I flashed the original ROM back within 1-2 days
Ok.
Then 1 week ago the ONE died. It had original ROM on it and ofc unrooted.
Today they phoned me. Due to custom ROMS: No warranty.
I can pay 30€ to get the phone back unrepaired or they suggest me a amount of € I must pay to repair. This suggestion should be at my home in 1-2 days.
Nice eh? Never HTC for me.. No warranty with original ROM, yay!
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You mean you went through all that trouble and didn't read the part on HTCDEV that your warranty will be void should you unlock the phone? That's why people use their phones for a bit to make sure everythings alright, everythings working for a period of time and to wait for S-Off before doing any unlocking.
Regardless of what ROM you have on it, the bootloader will tell all if you are not S-Offed.
ArmedandDangerous said:
You mean you went through all that trouble and didn't read the part on HTCDEV that your warranty will be void should you unlock the phone? That's why people use their phones for a bit to make sure everythings alright, everythings working for a period of time and to wait for S-Off before doing any unlocking.
Regardless of what ROM you have on it, the bootloader will tell all if you are not S-Offed.
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You mean you have Posts: 1,112 and you still are spreading basic mis information. How do you belong to this forum and post so much without knowing the most basic information?
nullkill said:
You mean you have Posts: 1,112 and you still are spreading basic mis information. How do you belong to this forum and post so much without knowing the most basic information?
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What misinformation? It says right there on HTCDEV when you want to unlock your phone.
ArmedandDangerous said:
What misinformation? It says right there on HTCDEV when you want to unlock your phone.
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You can't sign away statutory rights. They can invalidate their warranty if they like, but they are still bound by consumer law.
BenPope said:
You can't sign away statutory rights. They can invalidate their warranty if they like, but they are still bound by consumer law.
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Depends on where you are, and where I'm from an unlocked bootloader is an instant reject. And if the damage caused from the unlocked bootloader, they have every right to reject your claim.
ArmedandDangerous said:
Depends on where you are, and where I'm from an unlocked bootloader is an instant reject. And if the damage caused from the unlocked bootloader, they have every right to reject your claim.
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The OP is in Germany, he's protected by consumer law.
ArmedandDangerous said:
What misinformation? It says right there on HTCDEV when you want to unlock your phone.
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Warranties are not voided by unlocking bootloaders flashing ROMs or kernels. Manufacturers can say whatever BS they wish but most of the world has consumer protections laws that specifically protect people from this sort of insanity. You own the device. It is a computer capable of doing more than what the manufactures will let you. It is your right to alter tinker and unlock the device in any way you like. Consumer protection laws protect us from manufacturers saying that would void our warranty. According to the law in his country and mine manufactures have to prove that the damage was caused by the user. Now we know for 100% software does not cause hardware to fail in our situations. You can say well he overclocked the CPU well in order for the CPU to die the hardware thermal monitoring would have to be broken which could not be caused by software. Considering we can not access the bootloader partitions or the kernel partition without a hardware failure it would be impossible to brick a device and could only happen with hardware failure.
Does it void the warranty of a Mac if I load windows. What about if I take a windows pc and I load a old version of windows or a custom modded version of windows??? What if I take a windows PC and load linux? My warranty is still intact and has to be honored as the computer were made to do all this just as our phones were made to run android both sense stock and custom. Running a OS on a computer or phone that was made for it or even one that isn't has no bearing on hardware failure and has been proven extensively.
nullkill said:
Warranties are not voided by unlocking bootloaders flashing ROMs or kernels. Manufacturers can say whatever BS they wish but most of the world has consumer protections laws that specifically protect people from this sort of insanity. You own the device. It is a computer capable of doing more than what the manufactures will let you. It is your right to alter tinker and unlock the device in any way you like. Consumer protection laws protect us from manufacturers saying that would void our warranty. According to the law in his country and mine manufactures have to prove that the damage was caused by the user. Now we know for 100% software does not cause hardware to fail in our situations. You can say well he overclocked the CPU well in order for the CPU to die the hardware thermal monitoring would have to be broken which could not be caused by software. Considering we can not access the bootloader partitions or the kernel partition without a hardware failure it would be impossible to brick a device and could only happen with hardware failure.
Does it void the warranty of a Mac if I load windows. What about if I take a windows pc and I load a old version of windows or a custom modded version of windows??? What if I take a windows PC and load linux? My warranty is still intact and has to be honored as the computer were made to do all this just as our phones were made to run android both sense stock and custom. Running a OS on a computer or phone that was made for it or even one that isn't has no bearing on hardware failure and has been proven extensively.
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The hardware thermal monitoring may not break, but with kernels like ElementalX with specific options to allow the phone to run hotter than allowed on stock, there is always a risk of damage.
No it does not void the warranty of a Mac if you install Windows, as bootcamp is provided for by Apple. Kernels and ROMS are NOT provided by HTC. Your warranty would be void should you overclock your GPU/RAM/CPU over long enough periods of time to cause damage unless the manufacturer you purchased those parts from explicitly says that it will cover those damage like EVGA and Intel with their K series chips. Just running a custom rom and installing kernels does not void your warranty, but if they can prove that it WAS caused by these factors, consider your warranty well and truly void.
I'm not advocating HTC's point of view, nor am I on the modder's side. Heck, my HoX has a dead NFC chip from BEFORE I unlocked my phone. Warranty got rejected, and consumer law isn't strong enough here that I can fight for it to be fixed. I'm just giving a different point of view so that everyone understands what HTC/local distributor/customers will and have faced.
Just out of curiosity (haven't rooted yet), is there any possibility of a root method that won't void warranty? That would mean not unlocking the bootloader, right? If bootloader is locked, could custom kernels still be flashed?
BenPope said:
The OP is in Germany, he's protected by consumer law.
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But wouldn't the clause on HTC about "you may void your warranty when you unlock the bootloader" take precedent first? I'm just asking.
---------- Post added at 04:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 AM ----------
vokkE said:
Just out of curiosity (haven't rooted yet), is there any possibility of a root method that won't void warranty? That would mean not unlocking the bootloader, right? If bootloader is locked, could custom kernels still be flashed?
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Click to collapse
Yes if we have S-OFF
---------- Post added at 04:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 AM ----------
nullkill said:
Warranties are not voided by unlocking bootloaders flashing ROMs or kernels. Manufacturers can say whatever BS they wish but most of the world has consumer protections laws that specifically protect people from this sort of insanity. You own the device. It is a computer capable of doing more than what the manufactures will let you. It is your right to alter tinker and unlock the device in any way you like. Consumer protection laws protect us from manufacturers saying that would void our warranty. According to the law in his country and mine manufactures have to prove that the damage was caused by the user. Now we know for 100% software does not cause hardware to fail in our situations. You can say well he overclocked the CPU well in order for the CPU to die the hardware thermal monitoring would have to be broken which could not be caused by software. Considering we can not access the bootloader partitions or the kernel partition without a hardware failure it would be impossible to brick a device and could only happen with hardware failure.
Does it void the warranty of a Mac if I load windows. What about if I take a windows pc and I load a old version of windows or a custom modded version of windows??? What if I take a windows PC and load linux? My warranty is still intact and has to be honored as the computer were made to do all this just as our phones were made to run android both sense stock and custom. Running a OS on a computer or phone that was made for it or even one that isn't has no bearing on hardware failure and has been proven extensively.
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Click to collapse
HTC specifically mentioned that you may void your warranty by unlocking it. That protects them from people flashing their phones. And the consumer should read the terms and conditions of owning any device. I'm not siding with HTC but they made it clear that you may void your warranty when you unlocked your bootloader. So basically they can decide whether or not it is covered under warranty for unlocked bootloaders.
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ArmedandDangerous said:
The hardware thermal monitoring may not break, but with kernels like ElementalX with specific options to allow the phone to run hotter than allowed on stock, there is always a risk of damage.
No it does not void the warranty of a Mac if you install Windows, as bootcamp is provided for by Apple. Kernels and ROMS are NOT provided by HTC. Your warranty would be void should you overclock your GPU/RAM/CPU over long enough periods of time to cause damage unless the manufacturer you purchased those parts from explicitly says that it will cover those damage like EVGA and Intel with their K series chips. Just running a custom rom and installing kernels does not void your warranty, but if they can prove that it WAS caused by these factors, consider your warranty well and truly void.
I'm not advocating HTC's point of view, nor am I on the modder's side. Heck, my HoX has a dead NFC chip from BEFORE I unlocked my phone. Warranty got rejected, and consumer law isn't strong enough here that I can fight for it to be fixed. I'm just giving a different point of view so that everyone understands what HTC/local distributor/customers will and have faced.
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Click to collapse
Sorry I do not support your point of view. Your POV is that we can't do anything and that you shouldn't be informed. Your rights mean nothing unless you know them. The more people who know their rights and exercise them the less we will see companies behave in this way. I will not spread false information like rooting or unlocking voids warranties which is contrary to the LAW. I will not tell people well the company said this and you have to take it. I will tell people the truth and their rights and hope they use that knowledge to exercise their rights and make the companies behave in accordance with the law. Having people such as yourself who are only trying to help (the companies) by spreading false information that isn't true making the people feel like it's not possible and there fore helping the companies take advantage of people and break the law. That plain pisses me off.
As for thermal throttling you are not 100% correct. Yes you can adjust where thermal throttling kicks in you can not disable it. The SOC will straight shutdown when the phone hits a certain temperature and will not turn back on until the device has cooled. This is a thermal shutdown that would have to malfunction in order to damage a SoC.
I understand you had a bad experience but that was due to your lack of knowledge about the laws and how to deal with companies/manufacturers and I would prefer you didn't share that kind of info with people allowing the manufactures to continue to screw us over. Good JOB!!!
And last Kernels and ROMS are provided by HTC (not well as they have some problems complying with open source). HTC and ever other manufactuer is required to provide complete source code for kernels and ROMS.
I am not trying to be mean but you need to do some research based on facts before you start telling people how it is. Of course HTC will deny as many warranty request as possible this is not new info to anyone. Every single person knows manufacturers will try and screw us over.
I am done on this topic as I am so tired of all the wrong information and people who support the companies that screw them over.
@nullkill the video about rooting will not void warranty doesn't talk about unlocking the bootloader. You can root a device without unlocking the BL.
Does the united states have consumer protection laws like this?
Sent from my HTC One
I got warranty rejected due to bootloader, called them up, told them the number of htc phones i have ( one from all generations since G1) n played dumb on bootloader and tey honoured my warranty. try that
shadowboy23 said:
But wouldn't the clause on HTC about "you may void your warranty when you unlock the bootloader" take precedent first? I'm just asking.
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Click to collapse
Like I said, the warranty can be voided, they are not obliged to provide a warranty.
However, consumer protection law in Europe is far stronger than a warranty, and you can't sign that away.
An important note is that consumer protection law is with the retailer, not the manufacturer. The implication is that you need to deal with the retailer, not HTC.
ECEXCURSION said:
Does the united states have consumer protection laws like this?
Sent from my HTC One
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Click to collapse
I have always assumed here in the US that unlocking an HTC device opens up the possibility that a warranty claim may be rejected. I know that many auto manufacturers, for example, have successfully denied warranty claims because the owner could not prove the oil changes were done properly. How you treat your product does make a difference; a manufacturer can reject a claim if you have abused your product outside of it's design limits (provided they warn you), be it a radio, TV, or automobile.
I think HTC has been pretty good about fixing the hardware. However, I have a different opinion than some posted here. In particular, HTC devices tend to run hot. If a bad ROM or other OS level software caused motherboard failure due to prolonged heat, I could see that HTC could take the position that they designed the hardware for a certain set of circumstances, and apparently the ROM over ran those circumstances. Even a hardware thermal cutoff may be too high over time. HTC designs the phones to last; ROM modifiers don't necessarily have the same information or inclination.
When we unlock, we essentially acknowledge that HTC is modifying the warranty in response - as they clearly state.
This stuff is my opinion; you'd have to ask a lawyer about US consumer law.
---------- Post added at 11:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 PM ----------
shadowboy23 said:
@nullkill the video about rooting will not void warranty doesn't talk about unlocking the bootloader. You can root a device without unlocking the BL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How would one go about doing this? All the root methods I've seen require flashing a different recovery.
---------- Post added at 11:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 PM ----------
ArmedandDangerous said:
You mean you went through all that trouble and didn't read the part on HTCDEV that your warranty will be void should you unlock the phone? That's why people use their phones for a bit to make sure everythings alright, everythings working for a period of time and to wait for S-Off before doing any unlocking.
Regardless of what ROM you have on it, the bootloader will tell all if you are not S-Offed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, S-Off would not matter in this case; the phone was dead, and the user could not take advantage of S-Off to reset to stock...
Hi,
I am sorry if this common knowledge around here, but it took me a while to find so I thought it might be worth posting this info here.
I am considering rooting just so that I can save large files from games to my sd card, I was worried about this knox thing (never had a Samsung before) and voiding my warranty just so I can do this.
I have found the following post that seems to confirm that rooting alone DOES NOT void your warranty if you are in the UK, regardless of what happens to Knox...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1998801
This forum is obviously international and this just applies to the EU, but I thought it worth posting if it helps others like it helped me.
WARNING!!!
Before you unknowingly get people into bad situation you might want to consider this post as-well. Your link is very old and has been refused on several instances. Basically has not created any useful precedence to my knowledge.
Also KNOX put a whole new spin on the issue.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=45570695&postcount=4
I posted it before in one of the topic, but Im gonna repost again.
Regarding this topic discussed and this EU directive, I contacted both, Samsung Latvia, aswell as Consumer Rights Protection Centre.
In short - Samsung still stands on its warranty card, saying that rooting will void the warranty.
CRPC States, that they take sides with Samsung. Because they have such point in warranty, they cannot "protect me".
So only way something would change in Latvia (its in EU) is, if I would take Samsung to court telling that, the "rooting voids warranty" point in their warranty card is against EU rules (or w/e rules) and court would agree on me. No way Im doing that
Whats unofficial way of dealing against KNOX 0x1 when you take your phone to warranty service center is different story. Sometimes they might just fix your phone under warranty and reset the fuse (Like it was sayd in different post). Just dont count on that.
Hmmm, thanks,
This looks to be a very complex area, I was not meaning to mislead and I apologise if that's what has happened.
There looks to be a lot of concussion over who the warranty is actually with, either EE (in my case) or Samsung. I have to admit I don't understand the difference, if there is some law that states that the phone should be covered by the warranty, then what does it matter who it is with?
Has there been no precedent of someone having their phone rooted and still having it covered under warranty?
i also don't understand why Knox changed things? My understanding from reading some Samsung press is that Knox is designed for business platforms where the 'one device for work and home' idea can be supported by corporations it departments to make sure the devices are safe. It's disappointing that this same technology prevents personal users from doing what we want with our phones.
i appreciate that all I am trying to do is save large files (in this case for games) is a google policy change, not Samsung, but if rooting is the only way that I can utilise the expansion that the SD offers then it's also disappointing that this would void my warranty?!
I understand the 'root voids warranty' that is plastered all over can, but am just asking...
btw
I do not understand why even the warranty is lost just because I got root??? whether it is this or that Samsung or HTC or some other mobile.
I find it this is an old primitive law.
For me it means: root = admin
Fo example: I'm admin on my PC with Win7 and I still do have warranty for all my coponents or?
Just try to imagine you loose warranty for your motherboard or graphik card cos you have admin rights. lol
A S5 is for me like an PC that I can use how I want it to.
In Sweden we have a nice law for the consumer.
Warranty is totally optional. Samsung voids the warranty when rooting but we have something called "reklamationsrätt".
This forces the seller (not Samsung) to fix the phone (factory faults) within 3 years from purchase. The store has to solve the problem with Samsung (not our problem).
http://www.hallakonsument.se/other-languages/other-languages/english-engelska1/consumer-sales-act/
"During the first six months after the purchase, it is up to the seller to prove that the fault did not exist when the good was first purchased. When more than six months have passed after the purchase, the onus is upon you as the purchaser, to prove that the fault existed from the very beginning.
According to the Consumer Sales Act, your right to complain expires three years after you received the good. This applies to goods and services you purchased on that day or later. The product may have a guarantee period shorter than three years, but this does not shorten the complaint period according to the act."
Burden of proof is much higher for businesses compared to the consumer.
We really don't need the warranty here.
It is always optional for the seller to provide guarantees. They can't negotiate their way around "reklamationsrätten" regulated in the consumer purchases act. IT'S THE LAW!
Read about warranty here:
http://www.hallakonsument.se/other-languages/other-languages/english-engelska1/warranties/
So, if they can't prove that the fault is caused by root, they can't deny us to get it fixes. After the six months they will still fix obvious errors that can not be explained by root or bad use. As I said, the burden of proof is much lower for the consumer.
Other countries could have laws like this? At least within EU?
Edit:
I understand why Samsung voids the warranty. Samsung can't be held responsible for problems with the software on the phone if you have modified it. Then it is not something that Samsung want's to waste money on to fix. It's your problem.
Orka82 said:
In Sweden we have a nice law for the consumer.
Warranty is totally optional. Samsung voids the warranty when rooting but we have something called "reklamationsrätt".
This forces the seller (not Samsung) to fix the phone (factory faults) within 3 years from purchase. The store has to solve the problem with Samsung (not our problem).
http://www.konsumentverket.se/otherlanguages/English/Consumer-rights/Defective-goodsComplaint-/
"During the first six months after the purchase, it is up to the seller to prove that the fault did not exist when the good was first purchased. When more than six months have passed after the purchase, the onus is upon you as the purchaser, to prove that the fault existed from the very beginning.
According to the Consumer Purchases Act, your right to complain expires three years after you received the good. This applies to goods and services you purchased on that day or later. The product may have a guarantee period shorter than three years, but this does not shorten the complaint period according to the act."
Burden of proof is much higher for businesses compared to the consumer.
We really don't need the warranty here.
It is always optional for the seller to provide guarantees. They can't negotiate their way around "reklamationsrätten" regulated in the consumer purchases act. IT'S THE LAW!
Read about warranty here:
http://www.konsumentverket.se/otherlanguages/English/Consumer-rights/Guarantee/
So, if they can't prove that the fault is caused by root, they can't deny us to get it fixes. After the six months they will still fix obvious errors that can not be explained by root or bad use. As I said, the burden of proof is much lower for the consumer.
Other countries could have laws like this? At least within EU?
Edit:
I understand why Samsung voids the warranty. Samsung can't be held responsible for problems with the software on the phone if you have modified it. Then it is not something that Samsung want's to waste money on to fix. It's your problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice post. I can't understand why they can't just void the software side of warranty...
craigcrawford1988 said:
Nice post. I can't understand why they can't just void the software side of warranty...
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Click to collapse
I rooted my Galaxy S 5 the second day I got it but that was my choice and whenever you root your device you must realise the minute something goes wrong it is your own responsibility to fix it. The software in an android phone is responsible for a lot of aspects considering hardware like managing how hot and fast the cpu is, how your light works, your file system etc. The hardware is designed in a very specific manner and is set to run in a specific manner, when you root your phone you can change all that. You can force the hardware to run in "untested" ways so Samsung and other mobile manufacturers will not support when things go wrong because you use the phone in the way it wasn't designed to do.
I wouldn't go jumping on the rooting bandwagon if you're unsure about anything. I'd say do your research first and ask yourself why you want to root and also ask yourself are you going to be able to afford to fix it when things go wrong? I rooted my phone to change how my phone looks and get rid of things I don't need. Just remember when you root you cannot expect to receive help from the manufacturer when it goes wrong.
gareth261987 said:
I rooted my Galaxy S 5 the second day I got it but that was my choice and whenever you root your device you must realise the minute something goes wrong it is your own responsibility to fix it. The software in an android phone is responsible for a lot of aspects considering hardware like managing how hot and fast the cpu is, how your light works, your file system etc. The hardware is designed in a very specific manner and is set to run in a specific manner, when you root your phone you can change all that. You can force the hardware to run in "untested" ways so Samsung and other mobile manufacturers will not support when things go wrong because you use the phone in the way it wasn't designed to do.
I wouldn't go jumping on the rooting bandwagon if you're unsure about anything. I'd say do your research first and ask yourself why you want to root and also ask yourself are you going to be able to afford to fix it when things go wrong? I rooted my phone to change how my phone looks and get rid of things I don't need. Just remember when you root you cannot expect to receive help from the manufacturer when it goes wrong.
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Click to collapse
Im thinking about PC and Windows. Its responsible for the same stuff. If you want, you can cook your PC in breakfeast... But still - I have full access on my computer, I want same things on my phone. And it shouldnt void the warranty...
Stiflerlv said:
Im thinking about PC and Windows. Its responsible for the same stuff. If you want, you can cook your PC in breakfeast... But still - I have full access on my computer, I want same things on my phone. And it shouldnt void the warranty...
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Click to collapse
the computer is still more robust in that sense, also if you deleted files from windows which you shouldn't delete then the manufacturer would not fix it for free. If you fried the motherboard due to over clocking your computer that too wouldn't be covered by warranty. Now am not defending the manufacturers but with the amount of people that brick phones or root without knowing what they're doing would cost a lot of money to rectify.
Stiflerlv said:
Im thinking about PC and Windows. Its responsible for the same stuff. If you want, you can cook your PC in breakfeast... But still - I have full access on my computer, I want same things on my phone. And it shouldnt void the warranty...
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Click to collapse
:good: :good: :good: :good: :good:
gareth261987 said:
the computer is still more robust in that sense, also if you deleted files from windows which you shouldn't delete then the manufacturer would not fix it for free. If you fried the motherboard due to over clocking your computer that too wouldn't be covered by warranty. Now am not defending the manufacturers but with the amount of people that brick phones or root without knowing what they're doing would cost a lot of money to rectify.
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Click to collapse
and I would never go for service center just because of software glitch... Reinstall and move on. Same goes for Phones. Its normal if they wouldnt cover software problems with rooted phones, and approch same way you can apporch computers - reinstall -> test -> give back.
considering rooting (rooted every device prior), but have always had carrier insurance which included warranty as long as there's no liquid or physical damage.
Having bought this device full price, and the one year of geeksquad damage insurance, I was curious if they care about root / ROMs, or if they even ask about it.
Also, with Motorola. If let's say the speaker goes out, are ALL warranties voided by unlocking bootloader, or only software?
Thanks!
slaytanic said:
considering rooting (rooted every device prior), but have always had carrier insurance which included warranty as long as there's no liquid or physical damage.
Having bought this device full price, and the one year of geeksquad damage insurance, I was curious if they care about root / ROMs, or if they even ask about it.
Also, with Motorola. If let's say the speaker goes out, are ALL warranties voided by unlocking bootloader, or only software?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why on earth would you buy a warranty on an item that was cheap to begin with? I honestly don't know why people waste their money on warranties at all.
edufur said:
Why on earth would you buy a warranty on an item that was cheap to begin with? I honestly don't know why people waste their money on warranties at all.
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Click to collapse
Because I wanted to, and can?. $60 to replace a phone if something happens instead of full price sounds nice to me. Thank you for your informative reply.
Bump
I would like to know this too. I remember reading a post somewhere that unlocking bootloader would void warranty for software defects, but hardware defects would still be covered. Hardware defects is what is holding me back from unlocking bootloader, as I usually unlock my phone right away.
I also heard that it is unlawful for companies to void your warranty. It would be great to hear from someone who is more knowledgeable about this.
That's literally what's holding me back right now. Lol. I've got all the stock software downloaded, and ready to go ?.
Bump
Bump.
Anyone?
jhedfors said:
I would like to know this too. I remember reading a post somewhere that unlocking bootloader would void warranty for software defects, but hardware defects would still be covered. Hardware defects is what is holding me back from unlocking bootloader, as I usually unlock my phone right away.
I also heard that it is unlawful for companies to void your warranty. It would be great to hear from someone who is more knowledgeable about this.
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Click to collapse
According to Motorola support: The warranty on our devices covers both hardware and software issues. If you unlock the bootloader and even if there was an issue before unlocking the bootloader, it will still void the warranty.
I will return my device!
Don't want that limitation