Related
Hi all,
This is my first post, although I have been following the group for a long time. My post is motivated by the observation that a massive imbalance exists, particularily in the Legend development community.
There is a huge mass of non-contributing users badgering a small group of hard-working developers, whilst free-loading off the many hours they spend trying to improve the Legend for all of us. (BTW - I'm not pointing any fingers that don't equally apply to myself!) The value of the hours they are putting in is huge, and the return amounts only to the occational humble click of a thanks button.
I have written to the XDA owners and proposed that they implement a system whereby users can donate to a specific thread, and that each month the proceeds of thoses donations are distributed to posters according to the distribution of new "thanks" clicks to them. Unfortunately I have not heard anything in reply, so in the meantime I propose that we start here in the Legend development forum in a less systematic way.
For example; all of us eagerly following ogo2's thread on his Alpha rom should support how we can. We have all heard BlaYO's hesitance to get too involved in that he needs another Legend to do development work on, as he can't render his own out of service for days on end. Absolutely fair point. I would suggest that all active developers in here create a donation account somewhere so that the rest of us ungrateful, free-loading scavengers (again, myself included, and meant in the most positive way! ) can contribute.
Let's get BlaYO a second development Legend, or ogo2 some resources on Linux compilation etc. It's the least we can do, even if we are just selfishly offering to help them, help us
It would not take much, and I am quite certain that anyone who can afford a Legend can also afford to donate $10-20 now and then. What a small price to pay for all the hours that our devs spend working to bring all of us the latest and greatest. Let's give something back!
There were a bunch of users that actually donated to my PayPal account (a few months ago I didn't believe this could happen by the way).
I'd personally object to such a system for various reasons, the main one being complication of something which is a pretty simple in fact: You like the work of someone, you donate (or buy).
Moreover, there are a few CM developers whose work on their device (which happens to use an msm7227 chipset) directly influences the Legend too and therefore my work as well. They are not active in the Legend forum though.
So what I basically want to say: There's a lot of work going on – not hours but weeks – which you might never see because these almost unmoderated boards here are full of you-name-it and every CM developer I know pretty much dislikes XDA for that very reason.
You don't see us (40+ developers) working, but that doesn't mean we aren't.
Edit:
Ah, and by the way, I've been busy too, so tiwlan on 2.6.35 is almost finished.
ali ba said:
Ah, and by the way, I've been busy too, so tiwlan on 2.6.35 is almost finished.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this meaning that the new CM7s will have the new kernel?
By the way, what was modified in the kernel source so the tiwlan didn't compile normaly?
I don't need a new Legend, I just need some peace...
There you go
BlaY0 said:
I don't need a new Legend, I just need some peace...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Peace be with you
Hmmm... OK, I get that my proposal could have some shortcomings, however the intent is good. It's great to hear that users donated to your Paypal, Ali Ba, perhaps other devs should just publish Paypal details too, and users can direct donations to where they feel they are most deserved?
It is not meant to be fair compensation for the numerous hours spent, as the basic principles of community development should still be the driving force. It could, however, be a token of appreciation from those unable to contribute in any other way.
I can't help but feel that there would be more devs involved with more and faster progress as a consequence, if only there was a little reward in there too. Surely that would be in everybodies interest.
In any event, I offer my thanks to all the devs here, and I would be happy to back that up with a contribution, should you decide to go that way
ali ba said:
Ah, and by the way, I've been busy too, so tiwlan on 2.6.35 is almost finished.
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Click to collapse
I was working on getting wl12xx driver working with 2.6.32 kernel but I didn't succeed yet. Is there a reason not to switch to wl12xx driver instead? It also provides soft AP support int the same driver.
Regarding donations, it would be nice if I could donate you via Google checkout.
Thanks.
Yea leave Blay0 alone man, He's getting enough hassle on the Alpha thread as it is! people say they'd like to help then just request more things like a2sd,overclocked kernel etc.If you know anything about linux try helping by trying to build drivers for the last 2 bits (i.e Bluetooth,wifi)
I must say also that there were individuals who offered me donations which I respectfully refused and instead apoint those guys to their nearest charity. I'm not doing this for money (I make money doing other things) I'm just doing it coz I like to know how things work and I always like to learn new things. So if I become bored those donations definitely won't convince me to keep on doing it.
Don't you guys ever think that I'm doing all this for you! Noooope! I'm doing it for me and my own satisfaction. Yes, that's right I'm actualy a selfish, egoistic basterd but in a process of achieving my own goals (which are also inspired by some of your suggestions) I'm really happy if someone else learn something from me. They are few but it doesn't matter... they will definitelly pass on their knowledge and that's important coz I believe knowledge is universal and must be available to anyone willing to accept it and you cannot charge for that.
Don't kidd yourselves, this Legend thingie will be among us at most for another year and then it will get its successors and its community will become even smaller and eventually it will be disbanded and some of us will find new projects, learnig new thing and again passing on all the gained knowledge.
BlaY0 said:
Don't kidd yourselves, this Legend thingie will be among us at most for another year.
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Click to collapse
A whole year is an optimistic approach
The main problem in the development of the HTC Legend is the device itself. It's a rare phone, and pretty much a very small group of people is using it. That also makes the group of talented developers thinner. Look at the Hero or SGS forums topic/post count. Sure - most of them are retarded, and previously answered questions, but still folks in the dev section are coding some crazy and amazing stuff. That's because those devices where popular and successful. The HTC Legend was ment to be the successor of the HTC Hero, but this ain't gonna happen. Nobody will remember this phone in a year or two. That's of course HTCs fault, not ours.
Also mentioning all the request, demands and stupid questions in the dev forum - this forum is not that bad
Go check the Nexus S section. For example the NexusSense topic (my girlfriend got a Nexus so I'm somewhat interested). Now that's pure fukcin massacre out there
Greets!
Sent from my HTC Legend using XDA Premium App
cyRq said:
A whole year is an optimistic approach
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Click to collapse
Agreed, I thought Legend was a kickass sucessor, but very few people actually bought it...I've deserted to Desire S, but I think that's a very similar case so far anyways...
But back on topic: The thing is, everyone has an interest in what he's doing and unless he has a gain from that work he wouldn't be doing it But the idea of donating is noble ofcourse
Let's support our developers by not asking stupid and obvious questions, using search button, hitting that freakin' "thanks" button as often as we can, and most importantly by using our own brains to gain even more from their work
Dr.Romca said:
Let's support our developers by not asking stupid and obvious questions, using search button, hitting that freakin' "thanks" button as often as we can, and most importantly by using our own brains to gain even more from their work
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Click to collapse
Amen! (10char )
Agree with the great Dr!
PLUS This is a General thread so should be in the general section.....Threads should go into the right forums for a start! Hate to think how many threads there are in the wrong place :/
After much practice into linux, i went for a C coding workshop for android. Basically i doubled, maybe even tripled my skill level. I finally am able to promise you something not pointless to this society which feels great hatred on me. I already got over this. I hope such releases can ease the scams in may.
The new kernel, based on ARM.'s vanilla kernel common, will be a 3.4.11 kernel. It features full tweaks to all over the source. Expect little features on initial release. The releases in the front will be focused entirely on fixing the kernel sources itself. The major merge all the way to the latest kernel version might have caused bugs to appear
nicholaschw said:
After much practice into linux, i went for a C coding workshop for android. Basically i doubled, maybe even tripled my skill level. I finally am able to promise you something not pointless to this society which feels great hatred on me. I already got over this. I hope such releases can ease the scams in may.
The new kernel, based on ARM.'s vanilla kernel common, will be a 3.4.11 kernel. It features full tweaks to all over the source. Expect little features on initial release. The releases in the front will be focused entirely on fixing the kernel sources itself. The major merge all the way to the latest kernel version might have caused bugs to appear
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again?? Aren't you tired? You went over it but people from the forum certainly not. I absolutely don't wanna argue with you but yesterday Jarred aka Universal SS droped the ARM thread and today you are back.And you are not the same person. Certainly not. You are like bad news,they never fail.
nicholaschw said:
After much practice into linux, i went for a C coding workshop for android. Basically i doubled, maybe even tripled my skill level. I finally am able to promise you something not pointless to this society which feels great hatred on me. I already got over this. I hope such releases can ease the scams in may.
The new kernel, based on ARM.'s vanilla kernel common, will be a 3.4.11 kernel. It features full tweaks to all over the source. Expect little features on initial release. The releases in the front will be focused entirely on fixing the kernel sources itself. The major merge all the way to the latest kernel version might have caused bugs to appear
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good for you. Hope it works out better this time and test thoroughly before release and after changes.
might is a understatement. It almost certainly will cause bugs to appear (the most common bug is it not booting when major changes are made to the kernel base). Also allot of the bugs from the kernel don't show symtoms they just go wrong and use a few more KB of memory or that bit restarts and causes a slight slowdown or it takes a few milliseconds longer to complete its task etc.
Edvin73 said:
Again?? Aren't you tired? You went over it but people from the forum certainly not. I absolutely don't wanna argue with you but yesterday Jarred aka Universal SS droped the ARM thread and today you are back.And you are not the same person. Certainly not. You are like bad news,they never fail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your comments (although highly entertaining) don't do much, at least he's trying. Your right though: some information is contradictory.
EDIT: Have a taco
xonar_ said:
Good for you. Hope it works out better this time and test thoroughly before release and after changes.
might is a understatement. It almost certainly will cause bugs to appear (the most common bug is it not booting when major changes are made to the kernel base). Also allot of the bugs from the kernel don't show symtoms they just go wrong and use a few more KB of memory or that bit restarts and causes a slight slowdown or it takes a few milliseconds longer to complete its task etc.
Your comments (although highly entertaining) don't do much, at least he's trying. Your right though: some information is contradictory.
EDIT: Have a taco
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Click to collapse
I don't get it
First it was Nicholas who said he's handing it to a new maintainer, who is Jared, right? And Jared mentioned it has been dropped support
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2034227&page=10
Good news for everyone!ARM. will drop support for the LG optimus black!Hope everyone is happy and have a nice day.(I'll still be in the forums though)Moderators please lock this thread
Sent from my LG-P970 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And now ARM Project's back?
Yes. He is fed up of this community. So, he turned over to support HTC. I give him my support for DNA. Now, i comeback to finish off what is destroyed, complete whats junk, and make it into something like a useful book into a library. Thanks xonar. I still have one last lesson. I did not learn drivers. edv, as said above, thats my motive. And, the reason why i comeback is the value of my life. You rather change an enemy into a friend rather than gaining more opposition.
nicholas for f--k sake !!! , once you have the kernel going post the topic and flatter yourself ,, you never learn do you
If this is going to turn into a flame war then I'll close it as that's not needed here but as it's posted in General, you should be here to discuss the topic. It's been explained why the other one was dropped but if nicholaschw wants to try develop something out of it let him and just ignore this thread if you don't have anything productive to add to it. This wasn't posted in Development so he's not expected to have the kernel ready to post so discussion is allowed here.
Thanks
AvRS
ARM Project TEAM.
To get away our doubt to you, may I ask you something about your ARM Project?
You have many thread there,
Optimus Black
Optimus 2X
Xperia Arc
HTC Droid DNA
Samsung Galaxy S3; and
Google Nexus 4.
And I got this post,
nicholaschw said:
We are an non-profit organisation alike cyanogenmod, but only focusing on creating a global aftermarket kernel for the Android OS, specifically to remove the major setbacks of linux.
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Click to collapse
So you're involved with (kind of) non-profit organization (alike CyanogenMod), can we know who's the members of your team? AFAIK, you don't own the phone in personal. So you (might) develop those kernel alone by yourself, or how many developers in your team?
I read your ARM. Project Recruitment, and it seems no one interested, so this non-profit organization doesn't existed yet, or you already have your own internal team?
redy2006 said:
To get away our doubt to you, may I ask you something about your ARM Project?
You have many thread there,
Optimus Black
Optimus 2X
Xperia Arc
HTC Droid DNA
Samsung Galaxy S3; and
Google Nexus 4.
And I got this post,
So you're involved with (kind of) non-profit organization (alike CyanogenMod), can we know who's the members of your team? AFAIK, you don't own the phone in personal. So you (might) develop those kernel alone by yourself, or how many developers in your team?
I read your ARM. Project Recruitment, and it seems no one interested, so this non-profit organization doesn't existed yet, or you already have your own internal team?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We currently are five-membered. Xperia is full, me, jared and pidozz. Two more are under evaluation. See ARM.'s git
Good Luck with whatever you're doing, I hope you learn someday.
My better half made me a delicious taco and while eating I read the comments.
It was not my intent to flame, neither argue with anyone. I will rather get drunk and party till morning. Good year everyone.
Sent from my LG-P970 using xda premium
Edvin73 said:
My better half made me a delicious taco and while eating I read the comments.
It was not my intent to flame, neither argue with anyone. I will rather get drunk and party till morning. Good year everyone.
Sent from my LG-P970 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off topic but good year to you too,here they don't serve tacos
Sent from my LG-P970 using xda premium
hmm, 80% of repos are forked from already good kernels from such devs like gokhanmoral, CM, garwedgess, coolya, etc.
it's like forking Diana kernel then adding a little touch.
Even your "bproj repo" is a clone from huexxx https://github.com/ARMP/bproj-black/blob/master/Makefile#L198 yet you pushed it as initial commit. I understand, maybe you're shy to fork it repo to repo.
Your Makefile on the repo shows:
export KBUILD_BUILDHOST := $(SUBARCH)
#ARCH ?= $(SUBARCH)
ARCH ?= arm
#CROSS_COMPILE ?= $(CONFIG_CROSS_COMPILE:"%"=%)
CROSS_COMPILE ?= /home/huexxx/android/arm-2010q1/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-
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Lol. He gets owned pretty much doesnt he?
In the Nexus 4 forums he told us that he works for google btw.
realfelix said:
Lol. He gets owned pretty much doesnt he?
In the Nexus 4 forums he told us that he works for google btw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if i am, i would be in the newspapers. I'm so young. And go look at the post. FATHER. One more thing, this post is useless as gab himself is more capable to give this community a kernel
Thread closed as per OP request.
Hi community, I have a question. Is out there a way to get the sources from novathor? Can we push to ST to release sources?
We can do this with the Xperia P, U and sola users, they want that too.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2171038
And is a igloo kernel for our SoC, but I think it is very buggy.
http://www.igloocommunity.org/gitwe...og;h=29a3e1ef73daaa91cbf5cce2fb475f1878254402
And one last thing, I've founded this on Igloo dev section support.
http://www.igloocommunity.org/support/Android_Releases#Jelly_Bean
Is for our SoCs I think.
So can we make a good request to ST or igloo? my idea is to push them to release a consistent source for our SoC.
Any dev or user with time can help me?, I'll find some experience user in Xperia U forum and deliver to him my idea if he want to colaborate.
EDIT: Can we use this SE Novathor U8500 source from CM git to port or build CM for our device?
https://github.com/CyanogenMod/sony-kernel-u8500/tree/jellybean
Lol. You think we don't know about igloo?
I do not respond to tech support via PM
Shaaan said:
Lol. You think we don't know about igloo?
I do not respond to tech support via PM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I'm just a noob that has discovered america
Sent from my GT-I9070 using xda premium
Shaaan said:
Lol. You think we don't know about igloo?
I do not respond to tech support via PM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because replying in a friendly fashion is just too mainstream...
JoaoGuiPan said:
Because replying in a friendly fashion is just too mainstream...
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Click to collapse
You guys forgot that in a first time you was a noob user too. If you wanna respect from other "non experienced users", please respect them too.
This forum is not for devs and gods, is for people that deserve a right answer for their questions. Unless obviously disrespectful commit.
d14gvn said:
You guys forgot that in a first time you was a noob user too. If you wanna respect from other "non experienced users", please respect them too.
This forum is not for devs and gods, is for people that deserve a right answer for their questions. Unless obviously disrespectful commit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you.....
Samsung Galaxy S Advance
Rom : Jelly Bean 4.1.2 I9070XXLQ4
Kernel: CoCore E-4.4-TWRP
I Am WhAt I Am
First things first! I wasn't rude in my reply. If you felt so, then i am sorry.
d14gvn said:
You guys forgot that in a first time you was a noob user too. If you wanna respect from other "non experienced users", please respect them too.
This forum is not for devs and gods, is for people that deserve a right answer for their questions. Unless obviously disrespectful commit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. I was a noob too. But there was a big difference. Every time we even thought about posting a new thread, we used to fear. Every time we tried to kang, we used to take permissions from every person involved. Things were very different back then. People used to read, search! Now i hardly see anyone actually reading or even searching for answers. Want an answer, make a thread. This is what xda has come down to.
This forum is not for devs and gods, is for people that deserve a right answer for their questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well then i can only say that you haven't understood xda AT ALL.
Xda was made with the main motive for developers to share their work and seek help from other developers. XDA was meant to be a discussion platform.!
Now ask your own self. How many of you follow the forum rules? How many of you actually read!? I generally don't term anyone as a noob. But this forum takes the worst out of me. No matter how many times someone tries to tell something. Some people just fail to understand!
Some people call me Android police. Why? Just because i reciprocate?
I mean look at cocafe or Diego. If you notice carefully, they are slowly abandoning all threads. Now you guys can understand what i am saying!
I do not respond to tech support via PM
Shaaan said:
First things first! I wasn't rude in my reply. If you felt so, then i am sorry.
Yes. I was a noob too. But there was a big difference. Every time we even thought about posting a new thread, we used to fear. Every time we tried to kang, we used to take permissions from every person involved. Things were very different back then. People used to read, search! Now i hardly see anyone actually reading or even searching for answers. Want an answer, make a thread. This is what xda has come down to.
Well then i can only say that you haven't understood xda AT ALL.
Xda was made with the main motive for developers to share their work and seek help from other developers. XDA was meant to be a discussion platform.!
Now ask your own self. How many of you follow the forum rules? How many of you actually read!? I generally don't term anyone as a noob. But this forum takes the worst out of me. No matter how many times someone tries to tell something. Some people just fail to understand!
Some people call me Android police. Why? Just because i reciprocate?
I mean look at cocafe or Diego. If you notice carefully, they are slowly abandoning all threads. Now you guys can understand what i am saying!
I do not respond to tech support via PM
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Click to collapse
Dude, I agree with you that XDA was born to be a developer forum and that cocafe and diego are indeed slowly abandoning all threads BUT, when new people start to take interest in this, and I mean real interest, you simply throw some rocks at them! And then they leave too ¬¬
There is simply too much information about Android and sometimes it's practically IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND THEM ALL! I had never heard of igloo before, and when someone gathers a whole bunch of information and asks in the GENERAL section, not the DEV one, about it, you treat as if he was asking how to get JetMod 3 working on JELLY BEAN!!!!
JoaoGuiPan said:
Dude, I agree with you that XDA was born to be a developer forum and that cocafe and diego are indeed slowly abandoning all threads BUT, when new people start to take interest in this, and I mean real interest, you simply throw some rocks at them! And then they leave too ¬¬
There is simply too much information about Android and sometimes it's practically IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND THEM ALL! I had never heard of igloo before, and when someone gathers a whole bunch of information and asks in the GENERAL section, not the DEV one, about it, you treat as if he was asking how to get JetMod 3 working on JELLY BEAN!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already said that i had no intentions of being rude. If i sounded rude, i have already apologized!
And for the record, i do encourage such posts.
Also, a simple search on Google will provide you with the igloo git!
I do not respond to tech support via PM
Shaaan said:
... Also, a simple search on Google will provide you with the igloo git!
I do not respond to tech support via PM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you do a simple search in GENERAL SECTION about the novathor SoC (I mean discussion to port CM or anything about that)
You will find THIS, THIS, THIS and THIS
And the thread that inspired me to create this one is this thread., that is in another phone section
I didn't find a proper discussion thread about that so I created one, did you see a genuine discussion thread about de NT SoC and a discussion to find a way to get all the proper drivers for the SoC on JB? In xda general, questions you will don't find it.
Do you think that is a noob way to explain a situation and make some questions to get opinions?
Finnaly, in this thread Shaaan, the first post can be an example for you, that guy was respectful.
I can understand that you find all of those information months (even years) ago, but if you don't publish that, we will don't know that you have knowloedge about that stuff.
---------
You can sign HERE
d14gvn said:
---------
You can sign HERE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Signed !
Envoyé depuis mon GT-I9070
Sooo.. im still in same position that i believe that some threads have to be open only for devs and give for one or two users (shut_down is the best example) the info, releases, changes, etc. to be posted in general section for the rest of users. That is the best way to separate the devs works in one place and the rest of users in other place because leaves a good workspace for devs without noobs interrumpting..
I will sign when arrive home, im on bus now and its hard with the extra full people capacity in it..
Enviado desde mi GT-I9070 usando Tapatalk 2
Signed :thumbup:
Sent from my GT-I9070 using xda premium
I rofl'd .
I can't believe there someone more sensitive than me
Don't rail at me when I make mistakes, I'm a sensitive guy and there's a high chance I might turn unstable.
Signed. Might help the Ace II community.
JoaoGuiPan said:
when new people start to take interest in this, and I mean real interest, you simply throw some rocks at them! And then they leave too ¬¬
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will throw rocks. Only the person who can come out successfully out of it can do some valuable contribution to the community! If a person leaves developing just because he was flamed, then he wasn't destined to be a dev at the first place!
Don't get me wrong here, but if you really want to do something for the community, this is the way to go.
I am what i am (no matter how small i am, but i think i have earned atleast 2% of respect on xda), because people threw rocks at me when i was new. That is the hard way of learning, but it is the best one.
I do not respond to tech support via PM
back at the topic guys. i am a user of xperia sola that uses the novathor u8500 soc and i created that petition. we need to fight and get those sources atleast the essential ones.
if we dont have those source, chances are we will be stuck at 4.1. i was contacted by a person working at novathor on google+. i was dealing with him. he kept telling us about the igloo community and snowball board, i told him they arent of help. he said he would sound the insiders regarding our situation. no response yet :\. need your support too.
srprashant91 said:
back at the topic guys. i am a user of xperia sola that uses the novathor u8500 soc and i created that petition. we need to fight and get those sources atleast the essential ones.
if we dont have those source, chances are we will be stuck at 4.1. i was contacted by a person working at novathor on google+. i was dealing with him. he kept telling us about the igloo community and snowball board, i told him they arent of help. he said he would sound the insiders regarding our situation. no response yet :\. need your support too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just signing a petition won't help. Get the devs involved. And mean all devs working on STE UX500
I do not respond to tech support via PM
STE Novathor U8500 Sources
STE novathor u8500 sources
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2625365
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=49799159&postcount=149
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=49800053&postcount=152
Please download before it disappears!
Hi,
Firstly, I don't want to sound unrespectful to developers. It is just a few complains but I admire the time each one spend for creating new roms. There are lots, lots of roms/kernels in the android development section. It's a complete jungle! For a non technical user, I find it really difficult to choose a rom because:
There are no standard table stating what is different with the other. The list described by each developer is not always clear. Especially when he or she sees "aroma", "CRT", "ram hack", "zipalign" without explication. Wouldn't one nice and small sentence be sufficient to explain these terms?
The issues for each rom are not tracked. I think there should be a tracking system like JIRA so that we can confirm if a bug is already described and if it is still present in future release.
It should be clear if a rom is based from stock or AOSP rom (edit: it's not always obvious).
There is no centralized topic explaining the differences. But I have seen there is topic listing roms.
To my mind, there should be in each rom description something like a history, a short sentence like "I have based this rom on this other rom because I feel it lacks this and that." (not always the case), instead of just throwing "hi, [screenshot], how to install this rom?". ^^
I believe what happen is that one user will check the 3 or 4 first roms and will get confused.
Generally speaking, I feel that when you read a rom description from the author, it is addressed to technical people. I think a centralized JIRA (each rom = one project) idea would be very helpful to compare but I don't know if it is easy to implement.
What do you think?
ergosum said:
Hi,
Firstly, I don't want to sound unrespectful to developers. It is just a few complains but I admire the time each one spend for creating new roms. There are lots, lots of roms/kernels in the android development section. It's a complete jungle! For a non technical user, I find it really difficult to choose a rom because:
There are no standard table stating what is different with the other. The list described by each developer is not always clear. Especially when he or she sees "aroma", "CRT", "ram hack", "zipalign" without explication. Wouldn't one nice and small sentence be sufficient to explain these terms?
The issues for each rom are not tracked. I think there should be a tracking system like JIRA so that we can confirm if a bug is already described and if it is still present in future release.
It should be clear if a rom is based from stock or AOSP rom (not always the case).
There is no centralized topic explaining the differences. But I have seen there is topic listing roms.
To my mind, there should be in each rom description something like a history, a short sentence like "I have based this rom on this other rom because I feel it lacks this and that." (not always the case), instead of just throwing "hi, [screenshot], how to install this rom?". ^^
I believe what happen is that one user will check the 3 or 4 first roms and will get confused.
Generally speaking, I feel that when you read a rom description from the author, it is addressed to technical people. I think a centralized JIRA (each rom = one project) idea would be very helpful to compare but I don't know if it is easy to implement.
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually always or it is baseed on stock or aosp or cyanogenmod it's pretty much in every thread i see. it's always described in the information they write.
and a centralized topic where is everything written well. it's for everybody else some like Lg stock ui and some like more clean android
Issue tracking jira i dont really understand i only know that developers are just wanting a catlog if there is a problem so they can see from what the problem is coming from or what it is related.
and that from a short sentence well. every rom misses something it's for everybody different and in almost all roms they are describing where it is based on and they have permission to use other work (the base) but some people are not asking it like the miui team who just took kowalski kernel without permission and they don't even give credit or something like that.
this post is just my opinion how i think it is
ergosum said:
...
Generally speaking, I feel that when you read a rom description from the author, it is addressed to technical people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do support the idea of asking the developers for more detailed info of their ROM / kernel features, however keep in mind that this is an Android development site - members are expected to have some level of knowledge and / or the will to learn stuff by themselves.
On the other hand, I've seen developers who care enough to spend time writing detailed documentation about their work and yet you'll find people asking questions or posting stuff without even reading the OP or using the search function. This obviously discourages the developer. Who will want to spend hours or even days writing how their stuff works or what are its main features if people won't take the time to read it?
DrummerMuppet said:
I do support the idea of asking the developers for more detailed info of their ROM / kernel features, however keep in mind that this is an Android development site - members are expected to have some level of knowledge and / or the will to learn stuff by themselves.
On the other hand, I've seen developers who care enough to spend time writing detailed documentation about their work and yet you'll find people asking questions or posting stuff without even reading the OP or using the search function. This obviously discourages the developer. Who will want to spend hours or even days writing how their stuff works or what are its main features if people won't take the time to read it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand, but I don't ask for hours of well descriptions. One sum-up sentence and one link to a topic where other people has already spent the time should be enough. Example: an developer says "here are the 3 kernels [links]" and the only difference you can tell when looking at the links was "32rh", "16rh", "0rh". I had to guess that "rh" is ram hack and search for what it is. While with just "the ram hack is taking memory from GPU for the CPU", it's a clean and quick explanation. Otherwise people are bound to ask questions when they see this.
As for the JIRA system, it's just more obvious to see, for a newcomer:
how much issue a rom has at the moment
if a troubling issue important for you is described and prevent you from using the rom (so you don't waste time)
help the developer to see easyly what is wrong (instead of navigating through all the post)
help the developer by centralizing all the relevant information for one issue in one page, instead of having these spread everywhere
My galaxy nexus will continue running CyanogenMod for losing surport of OmniRom nightly build.
As CM11.0 is becoming more and more stable,I believe the nightly will coming soon.
We are gutted.
CM Nightlies arent our yet and IT IS BECOMING MORE N MORE STABLE :banghead:
What wait?
So OMNIROM no longer pledge support for Gnex?
Was looking for a 4.4 Kitkat rom from omni guess not...
No maintainer has a Galaxy Nexus. Give us a Galaxy Nexus (or find a maintainer with a Galaxy Nexus), and you'll have 4.4 nightlies.
XpLoDWilD said:
No maintainer has a Galaxy Nexus. Give us a Galaxy Nexus (or find a maintainer with a Galaxy Nexus), and you'll have 4.4 nightlies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahhh but does that totally rule out Omni for Gnex?
In terms of the final 4.4 release?
qf19910623 said:
My galaxy nexus will continue running CyanogenMod for losing surport of OmniRom nightly build.
As CM11.0 is becoming more and more stable,I believe the nightly will coming soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm horrified at how many gnex users whine about omni not having a maintainer... Let all the whiners go to CM, good riddance. If all of you gnex users put as much energy in learning to maintain your own device as you do complaining, you'd probably have a stable release by now.
King p1n said:
Ahhh but does that totally rule out Omni for Gnex?
In terms of the final 4.4 release?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blind development is impossible. The device won't be supported until someone from the community steps up and supports it.
There might be an existing maintainer with some spare bandwidth to support one of the gnex variants if provided a device - I personally don't have the time for it.
karendar said:
I'm horrified at how many gnex users whine about omni not having a maintainer... Let all the whiners go to CM, good riddance. If all of you gnex users put as much energy in learning to maintain your own device as you do complaining, you'd probably have a stable release by now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. The best way to get a device supported is to work in it yourself!
Entropy512 said:
Yup. The best way to get a device supported is to work in it yourself!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... or donate one to a developer.
I personally never understood all these demands to ROM developers. It's not like we're paying them to do it and support it or anything. Must be the new entitlement generation... (Generation E, if you will).
rodrigorajao said:
... or donate one to a developer.
I personally never understood all these demands to ROM developers. It's not like we're paying them to do it and support it or anything. Must be the new entitlement generation... (Generation E, if you will).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People learning a new skill is by far the better way IMO.
By donating devices to someone, you:
1) Potentially eliminate the opportunity for someone else to do the bringup and gain skills
2) Potentially cause that developer to burn out in the long run - that is why I personally won't be taking on any additional devices for quite a while. I'm spread way too thin as it is.
....
karendar said:
I'm horrified at how many gnex users whine about omni not having a maintainer... Let all the whiners go to CM, good riddance. If all of you gnex users put as much energy in learning to maintain your own device as you do complaining, you'd probably have a stable release by now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u know one thing that all the developers who know how to develop the roms never help newbies...
i have personally asked how to integrate the custom kernel source to the android source code...nobody helped..
even i asked that person who created that kernel and builds rom using that kernel...so how u expect from us to maintain our own devices...
i m sick of these persons who donot share knowledge...
anurag.dev1512 said:
u know one thing that all the developers who know how to develop the roms never help newbies...
i have personally asked how to integrate the custom kernel source to the android source code...nobody helped..
even i asked that person who created that kernel and builds rom using that kernel...so how u expect from us to maintain our own devices...
i m sick of these persons who donot share knowledge...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google is ur friend my dear friend.. There are several tutorials that would help u to help build kernels n roms from source...
anurag.dev1512 said:
u know one thing that all the developers who know how to develop the roms never help newbies...
i have personally asked how to integrate the custom kernel source to the android source code...nobody helped..
even i asked that person who created that kernel and builds rom using that kernel...so how u expect from us to maintain our own devices...
i m sick of these persons who donot share knowledge...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you think we learned ROM development?
anurag.dev1512 said:
u know one thing that all the developers who know how to develop the roms never help newbies...
i have personally asked how to integrate the custom kernel source to the android source code...nobody helped..
even i asked that person who created that kernel and builds rom using that kernel...so how u expect from us to maintain our own devices...
i m sick of these persons who donot share knowledge...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I'm sick of people being lazy, so...
If developers on here took the time to help every newbie out there, they wouldn't have any time to do what they do FOR FREE. Yes, you read that right. FREE. The real devs don't ask for donations. The real devs do this on their spare time, out of sheer devotion to the device and the technology. Not because some guy in the boondocks is requesting a feature or a bug fix. They all learned the hard way and SOME do give their time... And their knowledge. They just do it in a strategic way: By documenting on knowledgebases, wikis, articles, forums, etc.
So learn to google, learn to search, learn to learn. That's the TRUE spirit of XDA right there... Not what some of the forums are becoming: Harassment from impatient users who want it all right now for nothing. No offense intended, but "newbs" are only newbs because they choose to be. All the necessary information is out there. And if it's not, and you can show a proper breadcrumb of what you've done to get there, some dev somewhere can see the effort and help out. MAYBE.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to repo sync.
BAM.
karendar said:
And I'm sick of people being lazy, so...
If developers on here took the time to help every newbie out there, they wouldn't have any time to do what they do FOR FREE. Yes, you read that right. FREE. The real devs don't ask for donations. The real devs do this on their spare time, out of sheer devotion to the device and the technology. Not because some guy in the boondocks is requesting a feature or a bug fix. They all learned the hard way and SOME do give their time... And their knowledge. They just do it in a strategic way: By documenting on knowledgebases, wikis, articles, forums, etc.
So learn to google, learn to search, learn to learn. That's the TRUE spirit of XDA right there... Not what some of the forums are becoming: Harassment from impatient users who want it all right now for nothing. No offense intended, but "newbs" are only newbs because they choose to be. All the necessary information is out there. And if it's not, and you can show a proper breadcrumb of what you've done to get there, some dev somewhere can see the effort and help out. MAYBE.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to repo sync.
BAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've answered tons of questions in IRC... I've documented as much as I can why particular changes are made. However, there's a category of questions that fall into "handholding" because they're easily Googleable, or they are related to skills which can't be easily taught - they can only be learned by doing.
The problem is that every device is different, and the things you need to do in order to get one working are different for every device. If someone has a weird issue and a really esoteric log entry, then it's valid to ask if anyone has seen something similar (although you should Google first).
Learning to be a device maintainer is a long and difficult and frustrating process. Even if you're very experienced and familiar with Android, it requires immense amounts of patience and tons of time reading source code and reading through commit logs. There's no easy step-by-step recipe - it's all about developing troubleshooting and analysis skills, and those are best learned by doing.
Now there are some developers who do a poor job of documenting things - commit messages that are completely uninformative, unrelated changes made in a single commit, etc. - Most contributors to our gerrit know that such practices are a good way to get a -1 from me. (See my sig for a link to some general good practices...)
just listen....
tilal6991 said:
How do you think we learned ROM development?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i m not asking for help...
i m just trying to show the true face of senior developers...thats all...
first read my reply i havent mentioned that i need help in rom development...i just told the things happened with me...
---------- Post added at 01:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 AM ----------
karendar said:
And I'm sick of people being lazy, so...
If developers on here took the time to help every newbie out there, they wouldn't have any time to do what they do FOR FREE. Yes, you read that right. FREE. The real devs don't ask for donations. The real devs do this on their spare time, out of sheer devotion to the device and the technology. Not because some guy in the boondocks is requesting a feature or a bug fix. They all learned the hard way and SOME do give their time... And their knowledge. They just do it in a strategic way: By documenting on knowledgebases, wikis, articles, forums, etc.
So learn to google, learn to search, learn to learn. That's the TRUE spirit of XDA right there... Not what some of the forums are becoming: Harassment from impatient users who want it all right now for nothing. No offense intended, but "newbs" are only newbs because they choose to be. All the necessary information is out there. And if it's not, and you can show a proper breadcrumb of what you've done to get there, some dev somewhere can see the effort and help out. MAYBE.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to repo sync.
BAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i m not asking for help...
i m just trying to show the true face of senior developers...thats all...
first read my reply i havent mentioned that i need help in rom development...i just told the things happened with me...
Entropy512 said:
I've answered tons of questions in IRC... I've documented as much as I can why particular changes are made. However, there's a category of questions that fall into "handholding" because they're easily Googleable, or they are related to skills which can't be easily taught - they can only be learned by doing.
The problem is that every device is different, and the things you need to do in order to get one working are different for every device. If someone has a weird issue and a really esoteric log entry, then it's valid to ask if anyone has seen something similar (although you should Google first).
Learning to be a device maintainer is a long and difficult and frustrating process. Even if you're very experienced and familiar with Android, it requires immense amounts of patience and tons of time reading source code and reading through commit logs. There's no easy step-by-step recipe - it's all about developing troubleshooting and analysis skills, and those are best learned by doing.
Now there are some developers who do a poor job of documenting things - commit messages that are completely uninformative, unrelated changes made in a single commit, etc. - Most contributors to our gerrit know that such practices are a good way to get a -1 from me. (See my sig for a link to some general good practices...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly Entropy, you're one of the developers which I love following in the forums. Your interventions are always informative, you've got a great logic and even though sometimes you can be quite prompt in your way of answering, it's always justified. I have no doubt that you've helped many people and I'm sure your approach is always a "teach a man to fish" approach. I respect you very much, as I do other developers of similar nature, and I felt you should know this. Keep up the good work, and I look forward to reading other post from you.
---------- Post added at 10:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 PM ----------
anurag.dev1512 said:
i m not asking for help...
i m just trying to show the true face of senior developers...thats all...
first read my reply i havent mentioned that i need help in rom development...i just told the things happened with me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You haven't taken the time to read what I've written. Don't generalize and re-read what I've said and what Entropy said...
This is the last intervention I'll do on this thread, as the point is now moot.
ya i know..
karendar said:
Honestly Entropy, you're one of the developers which I love following in the forums. Your interventions are always informative, you've got a great logic and even though sometimes you can be quite prompt in your way of answering, it's always justified. I have no doubt that you've helped many people and I'm sure your approach is always a "teach a man to fish" approach. I respect you very much, as I do other developers of similar nature, and I felt you should know this. Keep up the good work, and I look forward to reading other post from you.
---------- Post added at 10:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 PM ----------
You haven't taken the time to read what I've written. Don't generalize and re-read what I've said and what Entropy said...
This is the last intervention I'll do on this thread, as the point is now moot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its really hard to see your true self...
anurag.dev1512 said:
i m not asking for help...
i m just trying to show the true face of senior developers...thats all...
first read my reply i havent mentioned that i need help in rom development...i just told the things happened with me...
---------- Post added at 01:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 AM ----------
i m not asking for help...
i m just trying to show the true face of senior developers...thats all...
first read my reply i havent mentioned that i need help in rom development...i just told the things happened with me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
anurag.dev1512 said:
u know one thing that all the developers who know how to develop the roms never help newbies...
i have personally asked how to integrate the custom kernel source to the android source code...nobody helped..
even i asked that person who created that kernel and builds rom using that kernel...so how u expect from us to maintain our own devices...
i m sick of these persons who donot share knowledge...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not a dev, but I would think statements like this really discourage them.
I do have a GNex that I haven't had luck selling. Was thinking about donating to Omni devs since they don't seem to have one. However, am having second thoughts if it makes it seem like people who whine and complain get what they want because they whine and complain.
@ Devs: PM me if you are interested in me sending a Verizon GNex to you for ROM development.
anurag.dev1512 said:
its really hard to see your true self...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Truer words have never been spoken.
Now please discontinue your whine, women & song and leave.