Related
Guys,
Lets help our campaign by writing a bad review of HTC Kaiser here:
HTC Kaiser at Amazon.com
And dont forget to click "Yes" on Was this review helpful to you?
Say that you own it (yes you are!) and how you dont like it due to the performance and drivers issue (and other issues like BT, etc.).
Note that you should be honest about the review.
If you think you like the Kaiser/Tilt the way it is now, then it is good for you (be happy!).
However, if you are not satisfied with the device (and/or HTC), you feel cheated by HTC, please put your voice out (write a review).
Dont tell lie, just express your feelings about it.
If you still dont get it, check HTCClassAction
Other reviews :
Expansys.com
ATTWireless.com
Newegg.com
Amazon.co.uk
(Edit: replaced duplicate post with cross-link)
For some background on the purpose of this thread, read this post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1861963&postcount=865
Good idea to get everyone to post bad reviews, but PLEASE make sure that the reviews are honest and can be substantiated. The last thing we want is for HTC to point out that we have been organising a slander campaign.
Thanks gogol for starting this thread. Remember everyone, it's not just the Kaiser that's suffering from this issue. Here's the complete list:
http://www.htcclassaction.org/devices.php
If you own any of these devices, you're entitled to share your experience with other potential buyers.
Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-2541160-4372107?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=htc
Amazon.co.uk:
http://amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=htc
Epinions.com:
http://www.epinions.com/search/?sub...arch_vertical=all&tax_name=&search_string=htc
What are some other sites you've used to research tech devices, where we can add consumer reviews?
ach2 said:
Good idea to get everyone to post bad reviews, but PLEASE make sure that the reviews are honest and can be substantiated. The last thing we want is for HTC to point out that we have been organising a slander campaign.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. Thank you for mentioning that ach2. I've tried to also make that clear in every one of my comments. DO NOT POST false accusations or be unfair. And do not post about devices you don't own or haven't observed any issues with. Don't mark a post as Helpful unless you feel it is correct and helpful. (For example, I saw a negative review stating that WM6 is a bad OS. I do not personally feel that way, so I did not mark the review as helpful to me. Likewise, in my own review I did not mention Bluetooth or speakerphone issues because I have not had a bad experience with those aspects of my device.)
Simply put, if you write a review, be honest.
Couldn't agree more. Thats why I've kept my review simple and have referenced the website:
www.htcclassaction.org.
I suggest everyone else should do the same. If the website keeps popping up people will go and some may even read!!
Be warned that it can take from 1 - 6 days for the review to appear.
Other useful things are to rate 5 star reviews as "not helpful" and poor reviews as "helpful" to help dissuade people from this crippled platform.
Whats the point in this may I ask.
What exactly is the issue with the kaiser as I cannot see any issues with the one I have from vodafone. It does all I want it to do and it does it very well and quickly enough for me not to worry if its being slow.
The device is technically a PDA, it does email, office, internet, and a host of other things, its not a TV, or a portable dvd player or an ipod.
Whats the point in slating the device on amazon if this affects the way htc operates and affects its business.
I wonder if people writing these reviews have looked at the bigger picture.
I would suggest if you do not like the device and have issues with it, then maybe the device is not the most ideal device for you.
Tom Williams said:
I would suggest if you do not like the device and have issues with it, then maybe the device is not the most ideal device for you.
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Click to collapse
I see your point Tom. However, if I have an issue with the way the device was marketed to me -- which is contrary to the way the device actually performs -- then I am also entitled to share my opinion with others. Because "if the device is not the most ideal device" for me, then it probably isn't for others either. I wish someone had told me about these problems before I signed a 2-year agreement. Therefore, I'm going to let others know so they can make a truly informed decision before they do the same. After all, isn't that the point of reviews, good or bad?
I would suggest that if you DO like the device, you offer a well-thought-out, positive review about the device. That's fair!
Edit:
Tom Williams said:
What exactly is the issue with the kaiser as I cannot see any issues with the one I have from vodafone. It does all I want it to do and it does it very well and quickly enough for me not to worry if its being slow.
The device is technically a PDA, it does email, office, internet, and a host of other things, its not a TV, or a portable dvd player or an ipod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're completely satisfied with your device then don't go looking for faults. However, if you want understand the real issue (and I respectfully add that your comment about it being a media device suggests that you don't understand the real issue yet), then go to http://www.htcclassaction.org/misunderstandings.php. This lays out the real problem that people are upset with... and will probably change your opinion about your device. You've been warned.
lol, some of the 1 star reviews on amazon are just too funny.
"I also have not been able to figure out how to add a number to the address book? Menu> add new, would be my guess, but that's not it, and I haven't figured it out yet. (As an advanced IT guy, I should be able to figure out even something not apparent in a couple of minutes, but not so). "
I dont remember too well, but i think there's a "new" softkey right next to the "menu" softkey
This has been discussed and debated many times.
Just read over http://www.htcclassaction.org
If you dont agree with this move or campaign, then it is not for you.
So, please leave this thread.
Tom Williams said:
Whats the point in this may I ask.
What exactly is the issue with the kaiser as I cannot see any issues with the one I have from vodafone. It does all I want it to do and it does it very well and quickly enough for me not to worry if its being slow.
The device is technically a PDA, it does email, office, internet, and a host of other things, its not a TV, or a portable dvd player or an ipod.
Whats the point in slating the device on amazon if this affects the way htc operates and affects its business.
I wonder if people writing these reviews have looked at the bigger picture.
I would suggest if you do not like the device and have issues with it, then maybe the device is not the most ideal device for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tom Williams said:
Whats the point in this may I ask.
What exactly is the issue with the kaiser as I cannot see any issues with the one I have from vodafone. It does all I want it to do and it does it very well and quickly enough for me not to worry if its being slow.
The device is technically a PDA, it does email, office, internet, and a host of other things, its not a TV, or a portable dvd player or an ipod.
Whats the point in slating the device on amazon if this affects the way htc operates and affects its business.
I wonder if people writing these reviews have looked at the bigger picture.
I would suggest if you do not like the device and have issues with it, then maybe the device is not the most ideal device for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the newbies just joining the forum may i present Exhibit A, the above post, which I will mark "How to jump in without bothering to look at the issue"
FYI if i buy a car that is marketed with a turbo and then the car maker don't actually connect the turbo up (AND DON'T TELL YOU!) do I have the right to be annoyed? If I buy a computer with the latest gee whizz graphics and it then refuses to run in anything but safe mode should I be a tad peeved??
HTC have marketed this "PDA" as having a "rich multimedia experience" to quote one part of their advertising blurb. So I think it is not unreasonable for this device to fulfil these expectations.
Over here its called "false advertising".
With regards to "the big picture" I would respectfully point you to the previously mentioned website so you can perhaps educate and inform yourself. I will live in hope but I won't hold my breath.
Oh and the point of the amazon campaign is very simple - to stop people who want a gadget that does everything from spending their hard earned cash - god only knows we work damn hard for it and its not too much to expect a company that has made massive profits not to FLEECE US.
rant over.
getwilde said:
What are some other sites you've used to research tech devices, where we can add consumer reviews?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Expansys UK is another site where users can leave reviews. Particularly good site to post a review on as their homepage has the TyTN 2 on it, with a "Most popular" sticker on it.
However, their reviews are moderated before posting and the review I submitted three weeks ago has yet to see the light of day - perhaps a little too honest for the censors (sorry, I mean moderators)
This move to orchestrate mass negative reviews on another site (Amazon)will be considered malicious and counter-productive in several ways:
1.
It may be harmful to the class action moves because it shows an intent to damage sales on the as yet "unproven" case by organising the hijack of the Amazon site's review system that by all accounts has shown little but positive reviews by those who have "genuinely" purchased from that site.
2.
It implicates XDA-Developers in conspiratorial manipulation of a third party site.
3
It defeats our purpose which is to persuade HTC by petition and class action to produce the drivers we would like. This action is a direct attack on sales that will be permanent - in as much as the reviews folk post on Amazon will remain there even if HTC respond to pressure and produce suitable drivers. It is not persuasive from HTC's point of view, if they continue to lose sales regardless of whether they produce the drivers or not.
I feel this kind of action falls below the standards of an honest campaign, as already started and now being reported elsewhere (other sites). The pressure is being put on by up-front means and is gaining support.
However, conspiring to manipulate product reviews elsewhere will not necessarily be looked on favorably be Amazon, HTC AT&T and other providers and if as I think likely the wider press begins to take notice of the campaign, this will be a shabby episode and ammunition for HTC.
My personal point of view - this kind of action is going in the wrong direction. Let's make our case for the drivers and make it well, we need to keep the moral high ground. If we are making a case that we have been "wronged" then we don't want to be seen scrabbling around in the muck of petty review rigging at Amazon.
Mike
mikechannon said:
This move to orchestrate mass negative reviews on another site (Amazon)will be considered malicious and counter-productive in several ways:
1.
It may be harmful to the class action moves because it shows an intent to damage sales on the as yet "unproven" case by organising the hijack of the Amazon site's review system that by all accounts has shown little but positive reviews by those who have "genuinely" purchased from that site.
2.
It implicates XDA-Developers in conspiratorial manipulation of a third party site.
3
It defeats our purpose which is to persuade HTC by petition and class action to produce the drivers we would like. This action is a direct attack on sales that will be permanent - in as much as the reviews folk post on Amazon will remain there even if HTC respond to pressure and produce suitable drivers. It is not persuasive from HTC's point of view, if they continue to lose sales regardless of whether they produce the drivers or not.
I feel this kind of action falls below the standards of an honest campaign, as already started and now being reported elsewhere (other sites). The pressure is being put on by up-front means and is gaining support.
However, conspiring to manipulate product reviews elsewhere will not necessarily be looked on favorably be Amazon, HTC AT&T and other providers and if as I think likely the wider press begins to take notice of the campaign, this will be a shabby episode and ammunition for HTC.
My personal point of view - this kind of action is going in the wrong direction. Let's make our case for the drivers and make it well, we need to keep the moral high ground. If we are making a case that we have been "wronged" then we don't want to be seen scrabbling around in the muck of petty review rigging at Amazon.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you go on and slander and make unsubstantiated claims that is one thing, however, as long as your factual and honest I see no harm in posting a review of the device. Most reviews on these sites are people justifying their expensive purchase by giving it 5 stars and writing about how its the best thing ever. The choppy video performance, touchscreen lags, etc are all facts and the consumer should be aware of these problems before purchasing. I wish some of these reviews were out there before I made my purchase.
mikechannon said:
This move to orchestrate mass negative reviews on another site (Amazon)will be considered malicious and counter-productive in several ways:
1.
It may be harmful to the class action moves because it shows an intent to damage sales on the as yet "unproven" case by organising the hijack of the Amazon site's review system that by all accounts has shown little but positive reviews by those who have "genuinely" purchased from that site.
2.
It implicates XDA-Developers in conspiratorial manipulation of a third party site.
3
It defeats our purpose which is to persuade HTC by petition and class action to produce the drivers we would like. This action is a direct attack on sales that will be permanent - in as much as the reviews folk post on Amazon will remain there even if HTC respond to pressure and produce suitable drivers. It is not persuasive from HTC's point of view, if they continue to lose sales regardless of whether they produce the drivers or not.
I feel this kind of action falls below the standards of an honest campaign, as already started and now being reported elsewhere (other sites). The pressure is being put on by up-front means and is gaining support.
However, conspiring to manipulate product reviews elsewhere will not necessarily be looked on favorably be Amazon, HTC AT&T and other providers and if as I think likely the wider press begins to take notice of the campaign, this will be a shabby episode and ammunition for HTC.
My personal point of view - this kind of action is going in the wrong direction. Let's make our case for the drivers and make it well, we need to keep the moral high ground. If we are making a case that we have been "wronged" then we don't want to be seen scrabbling around in the muck of petty review rigging at Amazon.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm afraid I don't agree.
1) "Intent to damage sales". EVERYTHING that we have done could be interpreted as an intent to damage sales. By its very definition that is what negative publicity does.
2) How are we manipulating amazon? All we are doing is encouraging people with kaisers to publish a negative review of their under-performing product. It would be vote rigging/product manipulation if I got my friends who DONT own kaisers to post reviews. If and its a big IF we ever get these drivers I will be the first in line to ask for my review to be withdrawn on the grounds it is no longer accurate.
With regards to this so-called "honest campaign" what exactly does that mean?? We have started a website, we are posting our reviews of our device and referencing the htcclassaction website. How is this in any way dishonest?
At the end of the day some people have paid up to $700 for this "product" and they are entitled to be heard be it through htcclassaction or via the posting of a negative review. How is this any different to when a "reputable" website posts an negative review of a product??
We have made our case for the drivers and we have been told in no uncertain terms to **** off. This needs to be brought to the wider (Read: non-techie) public and one of the ways of doing this is the posting on more consumer orientated websites such as amazon.
I added a negative (but accurate) review on amazon a few days ago, which is showing up for the TYTN II.
I'm sorry mikechannon, but I disagree with you.
First of all, it is not "permanent", as you say. Your own review is editable. If HTC releases drivers, I will gladly change my review. I actually look forward to changing it. If they don't release drivers, my review stays negative.
Secondly, how is giving a perfectly honest and appropriate negative review any different than emailing weblogs like Engadget and Gizmodo to bring attention to it, or starting a website called "HTCClassAction", or having numerous threads going, regarding this issue, in the Kiaser forum here on XDA - arguably the biggest and most influential HTC community forum in the english language?
It is not any different. It is all bad publicity, and frankly, there needs to be more of it. HTC's press release basically said:
"Well, you caught us, we didn't support the included hardware, but we aren't going to fix it. If you want that functionality you are going to have to buy the next device we release."
Apparently they are not familiar with advertising laws in the US. And I quote from their HTC America website:
"Rich media experience with AT&T Mobile Music, Video, TV and games"
We can all agree the media experience is anything but "rich".
The only caution I would have for people giving negative reviews is to do so on the appropriate Amazon domain. If you are a UK or European customer, do it on Amazon UK. If you are in the US and on AT&T, do it on Amazon.com.
If the review is an honest review, then I have to say then the more reviews the better.
I for one wish I had known about the driver issues prior to purchase and prior to signing up for a two year agreement with AT&T.
Isn't the point of these Amazon reviews to point out that a device may have problems?
Dont forget to write reviews on sites such as www.newegg.com and www.buy.com that sell a LOT of these phones.
Guys, there's not much point in continuing to argue about mikechannon's post. He's shown himself to be an HTC fanboy with not much good sense in many of his recent posts. Best to just ignore him and move on. I've posted what I feel is a fairly impartial review on amazon and epinions. Don't forget to review the Tilt as well, since it's sold under that moniker a lot under Amazon.
Dear dissatisfied HTC Customer,
Before reading this, remember I am NOT encouraging you to boycott HTC. But I think most of you, who are going to do that, are really knowing what your reasons are.
As For me it really seems that we paid for something that HTC did not provide, I think we all have seen great dissatisfaction and complaints here on the forums, which some of us are unable not to agree with. Some people even culminate the dissatisfaction simply by ending the customer relation with HTC.
I figured it would be nice to see how badly did their Kaiser backfire, and the way they handled their customers with this. So please, if you feel that you have had enough and are going separate ways with HTC, use the below link to inform HTC about your decision. Also remember to tell them why you chose to do so. Remember to add that you are talking about Kaiser. And also remember to tell them that you most likely won’t be recommending HTC devices to anyone, and will probably do your best that no-one gets screwed like you did, if you feel like that. That should teach them a lesson!
Also after doing that report back on this thread! So we get to see how it affected their customer base in this forum and hopefully even more widely, a bigger picture. With some math we can speculate what was the damage for them. Hopefully this will help them also to see what they did, and see it would have been everybodys benefit if they did things right at the first place.
Below are the links to inform HTC about your decision. You probably best to aim the e-mail to their "customer service"!
European ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/europe/CS_Mail.aspx
North American ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/us/CS_Mail.aspx
Latin American ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/la/CS_Mail.aspx
Asian ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/tw/CS_Mail.aspx
Middle-East and African ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/mea-en/CS_Mail.aspx
The reason why I find this really important is that, we really need to get the information on their face. That is where petition signing and things like that fail! I bet after receiving few thousand of this kind of e-mails the information will be passed to the persons concerned. That will not probably help us, but prevent them repeating what they did. Link to this thread would also be good on any other HTC/Kaiser related forum, so we get a collection of all dissatisfied ex-customers overall.
Sincerely Yours,
Henry
Ultimately dissatisfied HTC-EX-customer
ps.
you are still "allowed" to use your current HTC devices the best way you can imagine, since most of us paid a good price for it! For me that would be a paperweight or as a "viviparous lizard's tail".
I just informed HTC-europe that I will never be their customer again! I WONT!
Edit.
Actually, what I did say was, I will boycott them until the justice has happened in this case. Too bad it seems that will never happen. But that will give them at least a little reason to do back the bad things they did to us. They would get me back!
Done.
I am in charge of mobile devices and syncing with Exchange for a 2500+ employee company. I had started migrating people to s620's but have since moved them to HP iPAQ Messengers until a non-HTC device comes out that fits our needs.
So, while I'm not buying any more, I'm making sure nobody at the company (even personal purchases) are HTC.
-Mc
sent to http://www.htc.com/sea/CS_Mail.aspx
hope others will follow........
Sent message to the North American link.
Boycott? Wow.. dunno but I'm very happy with my phone, ATT Tilt, it's an upgrade from my last smartphone/ppc (VOQ Professional Phone) which actually I still have and would still be using had the company not gone out of business, and well the phone doesn't have bluetooth, wifi or a camera either... if it did have those three things I've still be using it now really even if the company went under...
I don't get the Boycott though.. are people REALLY that unhappy with their phones? sure I see lots of complaints about things but I see that with EVERY phone on the market today, there IS NO perfect phone out there and never will be because someone will find something wrong no matter what...
dampeal said:
Boycott? Wow.. dunno but I'm very happy with my phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please do not go offtopic too much! I understand that there are A LOT of arguments why the Kaiser could be alright as a mobile device, but that is not the point here. The point is that any person has the right to boycott what ever company for any reason he/she finds worth it. I'm collecting that info here NOT DISCUSSING whether the device is worthy or not. Made up my mind already.
I admire the resolve of all that are willing to stand by thier principles. Personnaly, the choice of my next phone is limited to what my carrier has to offer as by buying from them, I get a large discount.
As my carrier is T-Mobile UK, that means my next upgrade will probably be a HTC device (maybe vario 4) for around 100gbp as opposed to a none HTC device from a store for around 400gbp.
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****. To the OP, I am not directing this towards you, but I don't think developers or people who joined this forum for learning purposes want to hear about emailing HTC with others decision to boycott.
Hmmm, maybe I should start a thread "Email HTC your reasons why you love their devices here!"
Get a clue and understand these threads are not needed but we appreciate your participation and do not take anything personal because its directed at many people.
redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****. To the OP, I am not directing this towards you, but I don't think developers or people who joined this forum for learning purposes want to hear about emailing HTC with others decision to boycott.
Hmmm, maybe I should start a thread "Email HTC your reasons why you love their devices here!"
Get a clue and understand these threads are not needed but we appreciate your participation and do not take anything personal because its directed at many people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol... I agree...I will never say never... If HTC launched a TyTN II killer I'd probably get it..If will never buy a Kaiser again though if it helps
redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's strange. Because when I visit http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=376, I see that there are four sections: one for discussion about accessories, one for discussion about software, one for discussion about ROMs, and this one for general discussion.
I notice that the developers tend to hang out in the software and ROMs sections, and that this general discussion forum is for general discussion.
Do you not have access to all four sections?
redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn, don't know how to say this, remaining my relaxed tone.. but..
Don't you honestly think that this is the single BIGGEST community online using our beloved kaiser devices. Hopefully this does not come out of the blue for you, but there is something frikkin' wrong with the device we have bought.
There was 2 reasons for you why this kind of a threads easily pop out in GENERAL forums like this. Some people still want to get something in exchange for their money, not just crap.
Boycotting is useful, and it's the most powerful tool that single user can do against a company, which screwed him up without doing anything illeagal. This is where this forum could be helpful, here we have the people together. And if we complain together, maybe one day something gets done. Compare this to the situation between damn yankies and north korea for example. "Let's not give them what they want until they do what we want." Expect no nukes for the korea. You get it?
I feel sad that most of the people just accept the **** that big companies throw at you. I don't, A LOT of people won't accept that. Also, I'm completely sorry that I distracted you from your development work. Made you open this thread and whine about me whining.
And remember, this is nothing personal, there are a lot of you wankers out there whose fav hobby is to complain to n000bs and anything that.. that happens to annoy them at the time being. Then comes the bigger whiner, who whines about the whiner who whines about the whiner and that one is whining to whiner by the way.
You get the point? That there is a difference whining to other users and whining to wrong doers, who steal you money and feed you mouthful of poopi.
My message ... Europe Customer.
Drivers for Kaiser? No?
Then thank You, I will find my next device somewhere else, where I will really get what I paid for.
rakdoll said:
Damn, don't know how to say this, remaining my relaxed tone.. but..
Don't you honestly think that this is the single BIGGEST community online using our beloved kaiser devices. Hopefully this does not come out of the blue for you, but there is something frikkin' wrong with the device we have bought.
There was 2 reasons for you why this kind of a threads easily pop out in GENERAL forums like this. Some people still want to get something in exchange for their money, not just crap.
Boycotting is useful, and it's the most powerful tool that single user can do against a company, which screwed him up without doing anything illeagal. This is where this forum could be helpful, here we have the people together. And if we complain together, maybe one day something gets done. Compare this to the situation between damn yankies and north korea for example. "Let's not give them what they want until they do what we want." Expect no nukes for the korea. You get it?
I feel sad that most of the people just accept the **** that big companies throw at you. I don't, A LOT of people won't accept that. Also, I'm completely sorry that I distracted you from your development work. Made you open this thread and whine about me whining.
And remember, this is nothing personal, there are a lot of you wankers out there whose fav hobby is to complain to n000bs and anything that.. that happens to annoy them at the time being. Then comes the bigger whiner, who whines about the whiner who whines about the whiner and that one is whining to whiner by the way.
You get the point? That there is a difference whining to other users and whining to wrong doers, who steal you money and feed you mouthful of poopi.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i certainly dont complain to n00bs unless there are threads similar to this. I should just ignore it for this point forward because we both have our opinions and neither is right nor wrong. Here is just a sample of what I do for n00bs:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394543&highlight=stuck+bootloader
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2228402&highlight=redbandana#post2228402
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2228280&highlight=redbandana#post2228280
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394657&page=2
and then some.
However, I do bash n00bs when there are posts bashing HTC. Sorry to offend you in anyway.
^^ I understand your frustration and i share similar sentiments with you. A similar thread was posted yesterday(you can find it on page 2) and the day before yesterday on the ROM dev. forum. It gets annoying after a while, thats all.
redbandana said:
Well i certainly dont complain to n00bs unless there are threads similar to this. I should just ignore it for this point forward because we both have our opinions and neither is right nor wrong. Here is just a sample of what I do for n00bs. ... . .
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Click to collapse
Alright, It seems really we just happen to have our personal opinions, which we are completely righteous. I must admit I totally see your initial point, how this forum is built over the dedication of people who simply love to learn new things. It is totally frustrating nowadays to see people just complaining, without doing a **** about the real issues. I hope I didn't do exactly that, by starting this thread. The real reason to that is just, I would love to scare the **** out of HTC, make them see that they will go down if they don't respect us the way they should.
I do recognize what you stand for, and I must say there must not be anything that I wouldn't share with you. The thing that started this, must be that I have always been a man who stands behind his words, at least most of the time, and I assume the same from others. That includes all the big companies, groups and individuals. It really makes me sad to see where this world is going just because the only thing that matters to people is money. Huge corporations, sucking all the money they can, that's the end of people trying to provide just themselves.. no.. they want all that they can get. In the end, the one who pays the costs is dudes like us.
I honestly also didn't mean to offend anyone, and if it seemed so, I truly apologize. So in the end of the day, it seems like we are alone, with our Kaisers, trying to get the best out of it. So let's just keep on tuning it, until we are happy. That seems to be the initial purpose of this whole place's existence.
really sorry for my funny use of english, you native speakers must be laughing your asses off. But me not native, me from land of the barb-backed fishes. :|
I'm sure this awesome online community only makes up about less then half (if even) of tilt/kaiser/etc owners. There are many people that own this phone because they need it and never go online to mod it. Out of that assumed half I would say a 10th read what is posted or understand a single thing about this phone. That leaves a large number of people who think their phone is "crap" because you tell them it is. Yes I would like to see the phone be faster but I don't think it's crap nor do I think HTC has screwed me over. I don't seem to remember any stats that they released in regards to video or any other performance. Do you? Where are their benchmarks they advertised that weren't acheived by our lovely devices? If you can show them to me then I, and all of my friends will sign your wish list, but until I see them I will just think that everyone is butt hurt over an assumed performance loss.
HTC in my opinion has done something about this. Is it good enough to truely unlock the power of the Kaiser? No, but was it something rather then nothing? Do any of you know the cost of the video driver per unit? No, then how can people claim they paid for something they didn't get. How do you know it wouldn't have been another $50 that would have been tagged on. From what was advertised I will say I got 100% of what this phone was supposed to do.
ChumleyEX said:
From what was advertised I will say I got 100% of what this phone was supposed to do.
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This is strange opinion ..
because: when I bought the phone, I was thinkin buying the BEST phone in the market. Multimedia experience with keyboard.... Check the price and compare it to other older models if you know what I mean!
If I know it sooner I'd rather choose MWG, or iULTIMATE.. FOR SURE
I don't really care about support after market
But this laggy thing gives me s*it..... the fact that THIS THING DOESN'T have this BEFORE MARKET and they are HIDING THIS FACT!!!!
No multimedia experience only headache if you used it almost every time WITH touch screen... if... u know what I mean... do you??? or u just using it for modem only????
...bump
rajmagi said:
This is strange opinion ..
because: when I bought the phone, I was thinkin buying the BEST phone in the market. Multimedia experience with keyboard.... Check the price and compare it to other older models if you know what I mean!
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+1 Chumley I also go alot on the support forums for the iPhone, because my wife has an iPhone. If you were new to the iPhone you would think that it was the biggest piece of crap around. Thats all that is there is whining and complaining about how it doesn't work, Apple sold us a piece of crap . Here is a petition, let's put Apple out of business. As with all other forums a very vocal MINORITY of people who for whatever reason are having trouble with there phones.
Don't even get me started with the " Check the price, I thought I was getting the best " consumer strategy. I am just glad you don't buy my groceries.
I love my phone ,it does everything they told me it would do.It makes phone
calls, it schedules, MS Office is great, web access is great, I have push email, My gps works great etc... etc.....etc. Do I care that it doesn't have a Nikon D40 inside, do I care that I can't play WoW on it , do I care that I can't watch you tube all day at 3G on a battery charge? No ! This isn't what they promised me and this isn't what I bought my phone for.
Bottom line is, there are a million people out there that are perfectly satisfied with their HTC product. But we never hear from them. They are the silent majority. We here have to put up with thread after thread after thread because the vocal minority thinks we care that they bought a phone they don't like
STOP *****ing about Video Drivers. Who care. The phone is fine. You are forgetting that it's a PHONE! Be glad they added alot of extra stuff you can't find in a majority of phones. I have never had a problem watching videos and movies on my phone. Seriously.. geez
Update (21 Nov):
Unfortunately, we could not even establish consensus whether there was a problem or not. Some argued that the GPS problems only reflect normal manufacturing quality variance and others thought that the problem is a result of bad design or bad quality control (way above acceptable levels).
One member, ehe12, started a facebook page: Here is the original post by ehe12:
"Dear All, I have created a facebook group called Samsung Galaxy S GPS Issue, if you can all join and talk? Thanks. Also is there a way on facebook to vote? I will raise a vote for good/bad gps as well."
----------------------
original post:
Hi, like many of you I am very disappointed about the GPS performance. I am moving to the US next year from Europe and bought what I thought was the best android phone. I wanted to have on the go internet, email, camera and navigation. The last point is very important both for driving (I bought copilot US) and walking around in US cities or towns.
I tried every GPS "fix" recommendation and have maximized my SGS's GPS performance. However, the best I can get is still way below usefulness/expectations. Two service requests to Samsung for comments remained unanswered.
I am a strategy Prof at a business school and I hate the thought of consumers not having any power over companies. I am afraid Samsung may get away with ignoring old problems and releasing new phones instead thus driving the consumption spiral rather than focusing on optimizing existing platforms. Their strategy might be that we all (or new customers) will not be able to resist the temptation to just buy the new SGS version and throw away our "old" SGSi9000 next year. I think we could do something more proactive to let them feel that this might have costs, e.g. reputation effects, unwillingness to buy Samsung again and potential negative spillover to other Samsung product lines etc.
I know this is not a development thread. But we are all users not just developers. Perhaps some useful idea about how to engage Samsung powerfully, yet constructively comes out of this discussion?
Thanks, Chris
Flash mob of phone calls to their tech support centers?
that might just annoy their poor service center employees - I think we need something that gets senior management attention.
Totally agree with you.
I hate the fact that some users are just saying all phones have their faults and to deal with it. Yes is true all phones have thier fault but they should be supporting their users.
This is what samsung wants to hear, with enough pressure am sure samsung will act. How is the question
The best thing would be to get some of the big sites like Engadget or ArsTechnica report on this issue. That would get Samsung's attention.
I have tried calling their customer service centres a few times and it was a painful experience.
great idea! mobile phones are "experience goods", i.e. you need to buy it to find out how good it is. so some main drivers for purchase decisions are general reputation ("Samsung is known to produce good stuff..."); test and reviews in general and specialized media; recommendations from friends and virtual communities etc. this may be the weak point of Samsung.
However, our prime objective should be to get Samsung to produce better technology and give us better phones NOT to ruin their reputation etc. so we need a powerful - yet constructive - approach. maybe we could strategize and think through our options with someone form Engadget et al.? anyone has contacts to these guys?
darkoroje said:
The best thing would be to get some of the big sites like Engadget or ArsTechnica report on this issue. That would get Samsung's attention.
I have tried calling their customer service centres a few times and it was a painful experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't that done already?
Samsung need to know how many people the poor gps problem affects. If someone could go to endgadget/gsm arena and say that there is still X amount of people with poor gps performance and point the finger showing the not every hansdset suffers so its some sort of manufacturing issue surely samsung would have to respond. (maby create a facebook group/online petition or something similar)
This is worse than the iphone4 problem as at least apple new it affected every handset, where this doesnt. Just highlights to me a pooor manufacturing process.
pau1200 said:
Samsung need to know how many people the poor gps problem affects. If someone could go to endgadget/gsm arena and say that there is still X amount of people with poor gps performance and point the finger showing the not every hansdset suffers so its some sort of manufacturing issue surely samsung would have to respond. (maby create a facebook group/online petition or something similar)
This is worse than the iphone4 problem as at least apple new it affected every handset, where this doesnt. Just highlights to me a pooor manufacturing process.
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Click to collapse
One suspects that Samsung already knows how many people are affected and perhaps they just do not want to admit publicly that their QA processes are completely f'ed up.
My opinion about Engadget - it appears they created the perception that Samsung is aware of the issues and has solved them by now. Otherwise it is hard to explain why millions of SGSs are still sold around the world.
This implies that a) people don't know, b) people think this is a minor issue, c) people think the problem has been solved etc
I think a public story or update about what really happened in the last 4 months is due - this would also include the Kies disaster, serious lags due to an innapropriate file system, and the lack of proactive communication with their global customer base.
In a way they really get it wrong - people here at XDA love to play with the software. Thus, having some minor flaws in a phone is great b/c it builds and legitimizes a community of super creative and smart people. Why not work closely with them as a company and co-create new firmware, apps etc....
How about everybody flooding twitter with "Samsung Galaxy Gps Faulty" or summits along them lines. It only takes five thousand tweets to make the top ten. I think if we all manage to get all our contacts to re tweet it we can get in the top ten. That might be a better way of getting the problem noticed and maybe get some media attention.
Plus Samsung seem quite vocal on twitter, maybe they will take note.
Sent From My GT-Iphone-killer almost.
A lot can talk the talk, but how many can walk the walk?
It takes about 5 seconds to click on the "Tip Us" link on engaget... If your GPS is flawed, why don't you do it? You might get more of Engadget / samsung's attention if you start by TIPING THEM ON THE ISSUE!
You really have to be taken by the hand and shown the way aren't y'all?
Good point and I have just filled in the tip us form. Now if more people do the same we may get a story
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
just did the same
I've just done the tip us thing too, if we get enough people to do this maybe we can get some attention to the problem and a definitive answer from samsung!
Everybody get everyone to fill it in!
have also tipped them
maybe it'll be a good idea to change the post title or create a separate one entirely so that the users of this forum can also tip them if they have the problem too.
Tip us counter?
deleted - makes no sense
one concern - are we alienating engadget with this?
I think the "tip us" function is meant to provide news not complaints.
I suggest the following:
Lets start a new thread entitled "Join us to get Samsung's attention" or something like that. We start a list of user names - anyone can add his/her name to extend the list - once the list has more than 100 names we send it to Engadget and start a new list - every 100 names creates a new email to Engagdet and I suggest that we send it to Josh, the editor in chief directly.
what do you think?
Petition Online?
what about using http://petitiononline.com/ ? you guys think it'd worth a shot?
I will also do anything the community is involved in. I have tipped.
Google sure doesn't seem to be sticking true to their own philosiphy. It says we can hold them to it. The way they are treating this device launch goes back on their own statements.
As seen here: http://www.google.com/intl/en/about/company/philosophy/
Ten things we know to be true
We first wrote these “10 things” when Google was just a few years old. From time to time we revisit this list to see if it still holds true. We hope it does—and you can hold us to that.
Focus on the user and all else will follow.
Since the beginning, we’ve focused on providing the best user experience possible. Whether we’re designing a new Internet browser or a new tweak to the look of the homepage, we take great care to ensure that they will ultimately serve you, rather than our own internal goal or bottom line. Our homepage interface is clear and simple, and pages load instantly. Placement in search results is never sold to anyone, and advertising is not only clearly marked as such, it offers relevant content and is not distracting. And when we build new tools and applications, we believe they should work so well you don’t have to consider how they might have been designed differently.
It’s best to do one thing really, really well.
We do search. With one of the world’s largest research groups focused exclusively on solving search problems, we know what we do well, and how we could do it better. Through continued iteration on difficult problems, we’ve been able to solve complex issues and provide continuous improvements to a service that already makes finding information a fast and seamless experience for millions of people. Our dedication to improving search helps us apply what we’ve learned to new products, like Gmail and Google Maps. Our hope is to bring the power of search to previously unexplored areas, and to help people access and use even more of the ever-expanding information in their lives.
Fast is better than slow.
We know your time is valuable, so when you’re seeking an answer on the web you want it right away–and we aim to please. We may be the only people in the world who can say our goal is to have people leave our website as quickly as possible. By shaving excess bits and bytes from our pages and increasing the efficiency of our serving environment, we’ve broken our own speed records many times over, so that the average response time on a search result is a fraction of a second. We keep speed in mind with each new product we release, whether it’s a mobile application or Google Chrome, a browser designed to be fast enough for the modern web. And we continue to work on making it all go even faster.
Democracy on the web works.
Google search works because it relies on the millions of individuals posting links on websites to help determine which other sites offer content of value. We assess the importance of every web page using more than 200 signals and a variety of techniques, including our patented PageRank™ algorithm, which analyzes which sites have been “voted” to be the best sources of information by other pages across the web. As the web gets bigger, this approach actually improves, as each new site is another point of information and another vote to be counted. In the same vein, we are active in open source software development, where innovation takes place through the collective effort of many programmers.
You don’t need to be at your desk to need an answer.
The world is increasingly mobile: people want access to information wherever they are, whenever they need it. We’re pioneering new technologies and offering new solutions for mobile services that help people all over the globe to do any number of tasks on their phone, from checking email and calendar events to watching videos, not to mention the several different ways to access Google search on a phone. In addition, we’re hoping to fuel greater innovation for mobile users everywhere with Android, a free, open source mobile platform. Android brings the openness that shaped the Internet to the mobile world. Not only does Android benefit consumers, who have more choice and innovative new mobile experiences, but it opens up revenue opportunities for carriers, manufacturers and developers.
You can make money without doing evil.
Google is a business. The revenue we generate is derived from offering search technology to companies and from the sale of advertising displayed on our site and on other sites across the web. Hundreds of thousands of advertisers worldwide use AdWords to promote their products; hundreds of thousands of publishers take advantage of our AdSense program to deliver ads relevant to their site content. To ensure that we’re ultimately serving all our users (whether they are advertisers or not), we have a set of guiding principles for our advertising programs and practices:
We don’t allow ads to be displayed on our results pages unless they are relevant where they are shown. And we firmly believe that ads can provide useful information if, and only if, they are relevant to what you wish to find–so it’s possible that certain searches won’t lead to any ads at all.
We believe that advertising can be effective without being flashy. We don’t accept pop–up advertising, which interferes with your ability to see the content you’ve requested. We’ve found that text ads that are relevant to the person reading them draw much higher clickthrough rates than ads appearing randomly. Any advertiser, whether small or large, can take advantage of this highly targeted medium.
Advertising on Google is always clearly identified as a “Sponsored Link,” so it does not compromise the integrity of our search results. We never manipulate rankings to put our partners higher in our search results and no one can buy better PageRank. Our users trust our objectivity and no short-term gain could ever justify breaching that trust.
There’s always more information out there.
Once we’d indexed more of the HTML pages on the Internet than any other search service, our engineers turned their attention to information that was not as readily accessible. Sometimes it was just a matter of integrating new databases into search, such as adding a phone number and address lookup and a business directory. Other efforts required a bit more creativity, like adding the ability to search news archives, patents, academic journals, billions of images and millions of books. And our researchers continue looking into ways to bring all the world’s information to people seeking answers.
The need for information crosses all borders.
Our company was founded in California, but our mission is to facilitate access to information for the entire world, and in every language. To that end, we have offices in more than 60 countries, maintain more than 180 Internet domains, and serve more than half of our results to people living outside the United States. We offer Google’s search interface in more than 130 languages, offer people the ability to restrict results to content written in their own language, and aim to provide the rest of our applications and products in as many languages and accessible formats as possible. Using our translation tools, people can discover content written on the other side of the world in languages they don’t speak. With these tools and the help of volunteer translators, we have been able to greatly improve both the variety and quality of services we can offer in even the most far–flung corners of the globe.
You can be serious without a suit.
Our founders built Google around the idea that work should be challenging, and the challenge should be fun. We believe that great, creative things are more likely to happen with the right company culture–and that doesn’t just mean lava lamps and rubber balls. There is an emphasis on team achievements and pride in individual accomplishments that contribute to our overall success. We put great stock in our employees–energetic, passionate people from diverse backgrounds with creative approaches to work, play and life. Our atmosphere may be casual, but as new ideas emerge in a café line, at a team meeting or at the gym, they are traded, tested and put into practice with dizzying speed–and they may be the launch pad for a new project destined for worldwide use.
Great just isn’t good enough.
We see being great at something as a starting point, not an endpoint. We set ourselves goals we know we can’t reach yet, because we know that by stretching to meet them we can get further than we expected. Through innovation and iteration, we aim to take things that work well and improve upon them in unexpected ways. For example, when one of our engineers saw that search worked well for properly spelled words, he wondered about how it handled typos. That led him to create an intuitive and more helpful spell checker.
Even if you don’t know exactly what you’re looking for, finding an answer on the web is our problem, not yours. We try to anticipate needs not yet articulated by our global audience, and meet them with products and services that set new standards. When we launched Gmail, it had more storage space than any email service available. In retrospect offering that seems obvious–but that’s because now we have new standards for email storage. Those are the kinds of changes we seek to make, and we’re always looking for new places where we can make a difference. Ultimately, our constant dissatisfaction with the way things are becomes the driving force behind everything we do.
What exactly are they "going back on"?
"The way they are treating this device launch"
What? They took preorders and said 3-4 weeks. That timeframe still isn't up, and they are currently sending out stock to brick and mortar retailers so they can have a unified launch. What exactly is the problem?
*philosophy
Trollololol
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
Really?! For a TABLET?! It's not that serious.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Damn dude. Get a grip.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
jamerican413 said:
Really?! For a TABLET?! It's not that serious.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
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It is serious. It's life or death :laugh:
Seriously though, I was just trolling to stir the masses. Take this sh*t with a grain of salt.
Idiots. It will be shipped mid July. Quit crying. They are planning to do (and will likely achieve) EXACTLY what they said.
You could get yourself an iPad...
timmytim said:
It is serious. It's life or death :laugh:
Seriously though, I was just trolling to stir the masses. Take this sh*t with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...
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You have to much time on your hands
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using xda premium
P1 Wookie said:
Trollololol
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
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Trollololol Guy
chROMed said:
You could get yourself an iPad...
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I would never own that peice of over priced trash but thanks for the advice :good:
Got to get in before the ban hammer.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
I purchased 2 of these phones in April because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA. But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered. I am not a developer, so like most users I rely on those of you who are skilled in that expertise for our custom firmware. But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.
Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....
KtownJeff said:
Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....
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Click to collapse
This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.
KtownJeff said:
Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....
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Click to collapse
Seriously? Talk about a lame solution.
jadephyre said:
This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.
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Click to collapse
I agree 100%. :good::good::good::good::good:
jadephyre said:
This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.
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Click to collapse
I'm sorry you feel this way I was just offering a solution to help you with your issue but you know I do understand because I had the same thought at first but I think it is pretty cool to have real time discussion.....
Also our device is not limited to just this thread..... I spend my day switching ROMs with trebel based GSI....Oh and they get updated security every month and using our device all of the moto gestures show up in the rom because we still use the moto vender..... And if you really want to see some development start reading about compiling kernels..right now Im building a custom kernel for device.....
pastorbob62 said:
I purchased 2 of these phones in April because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA. But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered. I am not a developer, so like most users I rely on those of you who are skilled in that expertise for our custom firmware. But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe you could become a developer yourself and show us how it should be done?
which in case of Motorola is to develop software for like 10 devices a year + interact on forums etc. + try to solve all kinds of people's problems
all in your free time, not being paid for anything
Now I'm curious
Lupask said:
maybe you could become a developer yourself and show us how it should be done?
which in case of Motorola is to develop software for like 10 devices a year + interact on forums etc. + try to solve all kinds of people's problems
all in your free time, not being paid for anything
Now I'm curious
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I knew the second I wrote my original post some clueless person would come back in defense of poor support and lack of interaction playing the "developers are overworked and do it for nothing" card. And then there is the ever present "if you don't like the way it's done do the developing yourself" joker. But it doesn't fly when somebody posts 3 or 4 ROMs and then totally ignores all questions and issues within this forum not just for days but for weeks and months. How about focusing on 1 ROM and dealing with it rather than over extending oneself and dealing with nothing? As I said, this is the first device I have seen this type of poor support and neglect. That is because on all of my previous 5 MOTOROLA, 2 Asus, 1 Huaweii, and 3 Samsung devices the developers stayed focused on 1 or 2 ROMS and didn't try to recreate the world. And in all of those cases I and many other users donated generously to the developers. Doing a lousy job at something you commit to and then saying "I don't get paid anyway" is not excusable. And defending the poor support and lousy interactions with those lame excuses just makes you a part of the problem. As I said in my post, it is simply a reflection of the attitudes in the world around us.
The problem is that too many users don't even know what they're doing. They do not want to acquire knowledge themselves and expect a solution and an explanation for everything.
By now I say to many users here they should inform themselves. This forum can provide help with problems, but cannot explain everything to everyone. The most common questions here are "I have a bootloop", "what does
encryption mean and why I'm not able to access my data", "why TWRP should only be booted and why does flashing to recovery fail", "should I install TWRP again after I updated my device" and so on... There is currently a user who is trying to mount TWRP in Windows and tells me at the same time that he has already rooted various devices.
Somewhere in between is a single user of 20 with a real problem but he doesn't get noticed.
pastorbob62 said:
I knew the second I wrote my original post some clueless person would come back in defense of poor support and lack of interaction playing the "developers are overworked and do it for nothing" card. And then there is the ever present "if you don't like the way it's done do the developing yourself" joker. But it doesn't fly when somebody posts 3 or 4 ROMs and then totally ignores all questions and issues within this forum not just for days but for weeks and months. How about focusing on 1 ROM and dealing with it rather than over extending oneself and dealing with nothing? As I said, this is the first device I have seen this type of poor support and neglect. That is because on all of my previous 5 MOTOROLA, 2 Asus, 1 Huaweii, and 3 Samsung devices the developers stayed focused on 1 or 2 ROMS and didn't try to recreate the world. And in all of those cases I and many other users donated generously to the developers. Doing a lousy job at something you commit to and then saying "I don't get paid anyway" is not excusable. And defending the poor support and lousy interactions with those lame excuses just makes you a part of the problem. As I said in my post, it is simply a reflection of the attitudes in the world around us.
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Click to collapse
But this is a different issue. I can't and will not defend that someone creates a ROM, publishes it and forgets about it. And then another, and another. I am also sad that dev's time is spent/wasted on something useless at the end of the day, while they could help to develop something actually alive. I am also sad that there are numberless modifications and tinkering, all of them dealing with similar bugs and problems, while having minimal differences, and not uniting together to create something larger than the sum of all these parts.
And yes, , your original post did sound like whining at other people that they don't create enough software for *your* specific phone and help you solve your specific problems while giving zero effort to solve them yourself. Which is, sadly, a common attitude indeed.
As for me, I don't want to depend on people from XDA to do something that your phone manufacturer was paid to do - if you want support, ask it from there. The phones are not as popular to attract lots of independent development (I believe Motorola is partly to blame here, as they spam the market with too many devices). I'm afraid this is all we got.
Lupask said:
But this is a different issue. I can't and will not defend that someone creates a ROM, publishes it and forgets about it. And then another, and another. I am also sad that dev's time is spent/wasted on something useless at the end of the day, while they could help to develop something actually alive. I am also sad that there are numberless modifications and tinkering, all of them dealing with similar bugs and problems, while having minimal differences, and not uniting together to create something larger than the sum of all these parts.
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Click to collapse
Agree 100%. That is basically what my post is trying to address.
Lupask said:
And yes, , your original post did sound like whining at other people that they don't create enough software for *your* specific phone and help you solve your specific problems while giving zero effort to solve them yourself. Which is, sadly, a common attitude indeed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good heavens no! If you look at my history and go back the 7 years I have been here, you would find that I have been and will remain very active in helping others and solving my own problems. I have taken part in Alpha and Beta testing for developers. Have I gotten lazy on occasion and asked before searching? Sure. Who hasn't? But that is most definitely not my standard mode of operation. I make it a habit to search and research as much as possible before I ask.
Lupask said:
As for me, I don't want to depend on people from XDA to do something that your phone manufacturer was paid to do - if you want support, ask it from there. The phones are not as popular to attract lots of independent development (I believe Motorola is partly to blame here, as they spam the market with too many devices). I'm afraid this is all we got.
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I agree, unless you are dealing with issues brought on by unlocking, rooting and installing custom software/roms. Go to Motorola and ask a question about those issues and you will get shut down immediately. "Sorry! Your warranty is void and we can't help you. And many users (like myself) buy models not available in the USA so there is no support from Motorola at the get go.
That is the whole purpose of XDA. Community support and development. Granted, there are those who will abuse it and not make any effort whatsoever to find the answer and fix it themselves. They deserve to be ignored. But if you put a mod or rom or app on here then by golly, at least support it.
I believe we are pretty much on the same page just took a couple of exchanges to get here. :good:
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---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:57 PM ----------
I reached a point where I basically gave up. I'm not a developer but I like to fiddle with my devices and add a better experience with customizations. I had a Moto G5S and tried to add a custom ROM based on Android 10 but none of them worked well. I spent an absurd amount of time trying to make them work at least in an acceptable way, with no success. I gave up, reinstalled the original 8.1 Android version and moved to a Moto G7 Plus with no root and only GCAM. When I get tired of Android 10, I'll buy a new cellphone with Android 11 or 12.
The lessons I learned are:
- I cannot complain for what I received for free
- I cannot oblige someone to fix for free what is not working for me
- it seems to be increasingly difficult to make things work if you have no access to the internal development of a cellphone's manufacturer
- I will change my purchasing habits: I prefer to buy another device after 1,5 years with the latest Android and hardware specs than fighting to make my 3-yr old device run with a modified system that has no guarantee from the manufacturer.
- I do not have the money to buy expensive devices, I prefer to buy something above the basic and replace it more frequently.
- I respect the developers and I'm not mad at them, I am sure they are learning a lot when creating these custom ROMs and this will take them to a better job (I hope)
- I agree that XDA has changed for worse in the aspect of "community-based development". The interaction in the forum is really going downward, this is the same with other forums I participate. People are moving to "immediate answer" options like whatsapp and Telegram, which I hate because they do not have the organized structure and historic documentation a forum provides.
---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 PM ----------
I reached a point where I basically gave up. I'm not a developer but I like to fiddle with my devices and add a better experience with customizations. I had a Moto G5S and tried to add a custom ROM based on Android 10 but none of them worked well. I spent an absurd amount of time trying to make them work at least in an acceptable way, with no success. I gave up, reinstalled the original 8.1 Android version and moved to a Moto G7 Plus with no root and only GCAM. When I get tired of Android 10, I'll buy a new cellphone with Android 11 or 12.
The lessons I learned are:
- I cannot complain for what I received for free
- I cannot oblige someone to fix for free what is not working for me
- it seems to be increasingly difficult to make things work if you have no access to the internal development of a cellphone's manufacturer
- I will change my purchasing habits: I prefer to buy another device after 1,5 years with the latest Android and hardware specs than fighting to make my 3-yr old device run with a modified system that has no guarantee from the manufacturer.
- I do not have the money to buy expensive devices, I prefer to buy something above the basic and replace it more frequently.
- I respect the developers and I'm not mad at them, I am sure they are learning a lot when creating these custom ROMs and this will take them to a better job (I hope)
- I agree that XDA has changed for worse in the aspect of "community-based development". The interaction in the forum is really going downward, this is the same with other forums I participate. People are moving to "immediate answer" options like whatsapp and Telegram, which I hate because they do not have the organized structure and historic documentation a forum provides.
because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA.
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You judged and found out you were wrong.
But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered.
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How much exactly did you pay that made you entitled to this kind of support?
But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
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You do not really have to say anything but forums are there for anyone to speak his mind. Even people who think they are entitled to stuff they actually aren't
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.
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Lack of respect. REALLY?
Get off your high horse!
Your post itself is a reflection of another trend:
Unfounded entitlement.